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Obama Takes Class Warfare To The Next Level With The "Buffet Rule" And A New "Millionaire Tax": Is A Market Selloff Imminent?
In his increasingly desperate attempts to pander to a population that has by now entirely given up on the hope, and barely has any change left, Obama is going for broke (or technically the reverse) by setting the class warfare bar just that little bit higher. This time around, his targets are millionaires, who according to the NYT are about to see their taxes soar. Or not: nobody really knows if the proposed "Buffett Rule", affectionately known for crony communist #1, will impact just millionaires income tax, which incidentally is the same as what everyone else is paying, or, far more importantly, their Investment Income, which is where the bulk of America's wealthy income comes from. Which incidentally makes all the sense in the world: two and a half years after Bernanke has been desperately doing everything in his power to raise the "wealth effect" if only for the richest 1% of the US population, it is, from the government's perspective, time for the taxman to come knocking and demand his share of the capital gains. Yet what is lost in this ridiculous proposal are the unintended consequences, which always follow idiotic decisions arising out of central planning, number one of which would be a market crash as those who have paper gains since the market lows of 2009, scramble to lock in the old capital gains tax rate of 15% instead of holding on to paper profits that could end up being as high as 35% (or more): an event that would cut actual income by over 25% should one wait to cash out! And since 25% is substantially more than anything that Twist and QE3 and 4 could hope to achieve, it is all too conceivable that those holding on to profitable positions will have had enough, and take their profits, likely converting them into physical and non-dilutable assets along the way. As to whether they would subsequently relocate to far more hospitable countries, such as those that don't foment class warfare, and implicitly invite a civil war, that remains yet to be seen.
In the meantime, here is how Obama just made sure his already record low rating is about to plumb depths unseen since the time of Jimmy Carter, via the NYT:
President Obama on Monday will call for a new minimum tax rate for individuals making more than $1 million a year to ensure that they pay at least the same percentage of their earnings as middle-income taxpayers, according to administration officials.
With a special joint Congressional committee starting work to reach a bipartisan budget deal by late November, the proposal adds a new and populist feature to Mr. Obama’s effort to raise the political pressure on Republicans to agree to higher revenues from the wealthy in return for Democrats’ support of future cuts from Medicare and Medicaid.
Mr. Obama, in a bit of political salesmanship, will call his proposal the “Buffett Rule,” in a reference to Warren E. Buffett, the billionaire investor who has complained repeatedly that the richest Americans generally pay a smaller share of their income in federal taxes than do middle-income workers, because investment gains are taxed at a lower rate than wages.
Mr. Obama will not specify a rate or other details, and it is unclear how much revenue his plan would raise. But his idea of a millionaires’ minimum tax will be prominent in the broad plan for long-term deficit reduction that he will outline at the White House on Monday.
In other words, another typical Obama ploy: let the details be ironed out in the future, but for now we just want to accentuate the class animosity. After all, it is all too obvious that those millionaires, like Buffett, who so desperately want to show their patriotism for America, are in no way aware that the Treasury has this thing called Pay.gov which allows such uber-patriots to whip out their credit cards and pay down America's record debt, in essence voluntarily doing what Obama plans to enforce for everyone else. We are certain that Mr. Buffett will promptly demonstrate to the public his receipt from precisely such a patriotic transaction.
As for the proposal, to say that it is doomed would be optimistic:
The Obama proposal has little chance of becoming law unless Republican lawmakers bend. But by focusing on the wealthiest Americans, the president is sharpening the contrast between Republicans and Democrats with a theme he can carry into his bid for re-election in 2012.
It could also reassure Democrats who have feared that Mr. Obama would agree to changes in programs like Medicare without forcing Republicans to compromise on taxes.
The administration wants such a tax to replace the alternative minimum tax, which was created decades ago to make sure the richest taxpayers with plentiful deductions and credits did not avoid income taxes, but which now hits millions of Americans who are considered upper middle class. Mr. Obama has said that many average Americans could see a tax cut if the system is overhauled, since ending many tax breaks would allow for lower rates while raising more revenues from the wealthiest.
The millionaires’ tax is among several changes Mr. Obama will propose in urging Congress to overhaul the federal income tax code next year, both to raise revenues for reducing deficits and to make the tax system simpler and fairer, said the administration officials, who agreed to speak in advance of the president’s announcement on the condition of anonymity.
The millionaires’ rate would affect only 0.3 percent of taxpayers, they said. That would be fewer than 450,000; 144 million returns were filed for 2010.
That's wonderful: in other words it is very few of the people who, mostly through years of hard work, have succeeded in breaking through the vaunted 7 digit net worth figure. But the good news is that Buffett, instead of focusing on his own share of philantropy, believes that it is his centrally planned duty to enforce his strict lack of moral code on everyone else. Too bad the other millionaires do not have the billions necessary to become one with the TBTFs and know that whatever they put their money in, Uncle Sam will never let it blow up.
If Obama wants to enact a Buffett Rule, how about instead of addressing taxes, said rule makes it clear that capitalism is coming back to replace the crony communist regime we have all grown to love and enjoy for the past 3 years, and individual failure is once again an option, instead of the socialist risk phenomenon that Buffett, more than any one individual America has grown to symbolize and represent?
Furthermore, when the $1MM cutoff fails, which it inevitably will (the rich are rich for a reason: they tend to be, for the most part, quite adept at finding loopholes), and those targeted promptly "offshore" themselves, what will Obama's next "rich" cutoff be: $500,000? $100,000? $25,000? Those on Earned Income Tax Credit? Sooner or later, you know Obama is coming for you.
Lastly, and presumably comically, considering that 41.2% of the "middle class" pays no income taxes, we wonder if this is not just a ploy by a wily Buffett, who knows the loophole in the tax code better than anyone, to make sure that nearly half of all millionaires pay... absolutely nothing.
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Since it's an honest question, I'll give you an honest answer.
"henry george" (Whoever that may be) should not be taxing anyone more than is required to cover the legitimate (read: Constitutional) expenses of the government. That, emphatically, does not include interest payments to the Federal Reserve, or free shit for those who do nothing.
If Warren Buffet wants to dip his balls in molten gold, I don't care. If he has gained his largess through moral means, either through the acquisition of capital or the production of goods, his money is his to do with as he wishes. If he gained his wealth through fraud, he should be stripped bare, and his assets returned to the defrauded parties or their heirs.
Your sentiments regarding the rancher are well-taken. There is a significant risk in investment, and those who accept the risk should absolutely be able to reap the rewards when they arrive. They should also fail when they make a poor investment. In neither case is the government an acceptable recipient of gains they consider "excessive."
Like it or not, the people you label "elites" carry that scarlet letter for a reason. You're not calling them "dumb-asses," so I guess you can see where the label is at least somewhat justified. Our society was designed and built to protect those who produce more than they consume, and it is asinine to assume that you, personally, can be an impartial judge of any man who has produced or saved more than he required- in many cases, it is not even greed that produced the largess, but hypomania. Let them pass their weath along- what do you care? It will be squandered within a couple of generations in any case.
So how about we just tax everyone equally by percentage, and drop the pretense that good ol' Uncle Sam has our best interests at heart? Those who can, will- and those who cannot, will fail. I know that doesn't fit with the feel-good view, but it sure would level the playing field.
What I resent is that they want to take "Entitlements" away from the Seniors that paid into the so called "Trust Fund" for 50+ years.
Yet, they never talk about cutting the real entitlements like Welfare, Food Stamps, Section 8 Housing, Medicade.
I know this sounds crass but I do not see why the "Poor" people live better than the average person making a normal wage.
The average person can get fired and lose everything, while the "Entitled" Person gets a Guaranteed Income from the Government.
Just maybe if the Government cut those Benififs so it would not be so comfortable to live on the Government handout, those people would get a Job and contribute to Society and the Tax Rolls.
The savings would be massive and would increase Tax Revenues.
That pretty much the point of every flat taxer. And one I agree with. I would be fine with some progresivity that acommodates the arc of life. But the system does not protect people who produce more than they take. The system protects perpetual "elite" and the top, bottom, and "charitable/corporate institution benefators to all" Those people are not elite. Trump is not elite. The people who call themselves "philanthopists" are not elite. Tax everyone equally, or slightly progressively and you will find out who the elite really are.
Henry George said "tax land, nothing else" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henry_George
Real Estate is taxed every year on its value. It is called Property Taxes. They should do the same for Stocks.
Now if Buffett were to support a "wealth tax" that would be a different story.
The $26b that a millionaires tax would deliver is chump change compared to what a tax on the cash stash of pigs like Buffett would deliver.
Obama the Marxist is showing his true colors again. Workers of the world unite yada yada yada. This is so old school. Never mind that even the countries that tried this crap gave up on it years ago. Obama is a failure, and his Marxist ideas are a failure. He is a buffoon and will go down as one of the worst US presidents in history. Even his own party thinks he is a moron. I am surprised Hillary isn't running against him because I think she would easily beat him.
I'm ALL for soaking the billionaires.
Eat the rich.
http://geraldcelente.proboards.com
"Eat the Rich. Live Off the Fat of The Land."
Yep, community organizer dude came to the door today asking for signatures supporting the measure along with donations of time and money to make sure this was put into law. I told him to get the fuck off my porch.
Your porch! You poor dumb bastard. Brainwashed into voting against your best interests. Here's a tip. If your house has a porch, you will not see a tax increase.
your name is now in a database. when the time comes, expect a knock on the door and men in black to drag you to a waiting deuce and a half along with the other neighborhood/city political prisoners....
Watchu do is subvert the fucking petition.
Sign another name other than your own and make the address illegible. Then when it gets contested in court or findings, it's another forged signature aiding in the inavlidation of the petition.
as in: (scribbled)
Davidson Doglips. 1666 Promistofuku, Ave, Shitole Circus, Alabama
I've got some of my "Fun" money shorting the market right now. I gamble and trade short and then long the same market on the same day but what else are you supposed to do with your irredeemable paper money in a hopelessly broken market? I also try trade to trade the NAV premiums between Sprott Gold and The Canadian Central Fund. It's all in my Roth IRA so I can't get at the principle til I'm 55 or until the the goobermint changes their rules again and forcefully converts it all to worthless T-bills. American style capitalism...modeled after Soviet Styled Central Planning. Pretty sad but the whole culture is now a lotto/game show/reality show bullshit illusion so might as well play along with my monopoly money.
It does not matter. It really does not.
The tax code is what government is. There is nothing more. It is typical pussified, passive agressiveness. Get rid of the tax code. Tax consumption, tax income, tax captiol gains in a predictable way. Then GOVERNMENT must behave in a predictable way. Take away the biggest catalyst to the boom bust cycle.
An honest intelligent framework would allow people to say "hey 8% is too high for the services I get from the government" Then you have a candidate who runs and says "I think I can run the government on 7%" Or in the alternative, you have a politician that says "Folks, we need to build desalination plants/freshwater pipelines, etc. to preserve the NATIONAL water table, so we need to raise taxes to 9%" Honest open debate about ISSUES not a bullshit private public liars club, where every one is actually losing thier souls for a bunch of "tax credits" I am looking at you John Kerry. One of the 450,000 people this new rule would make "martyrs" of, now that thier worst deeds have already been done.
The way they run it now, they get the sheeple to say "somethings not right, but .gov says if they give us a mortgage interest deduction, I can take a heloc" Then the politicians says "because you are so supportive of this great idea, we'll take a heloc too!" Repeat, until you can get a dediction for using solar panels made in the USA by a company called solyndra. Then the president says "I'll put them on the white house too!"
In that order. And thing else and this nation will go tits up before 2020.
I am super glad Sac put in the up down arrows. But if you junk somebody, you should comment. Everytime I get junked without a counterpoint, I up rate myself.
Sucks that he reduced the number of comments per page.
"Get the click count up Sac or you're FIRED!!"
I hope taxes to reach at least 50% like in Scandinavia so Americans can pay the deficit spending+ pop that gas Tax like in Europe so they can learn to drive diesel and run efficient engines below 2.0. Hope they will learn not to have that Plasma Panasonic 3d out of have nothing 2 do and do it 4 fun. Hussein Barack for 2nd term President go go... feed the poor as Curran say.
Obama's answer to everything is tax, tax, tax, print, borrow, print. Then "stimulus" for his crony loser friends, and masses of uneducated idiot freeloaders. Soon these rejects are all going to have to actually produce something, or starve. I'm looking forward to it.
You mindless spirit, Obama is simply 1 man of hundreds that govern the country. There are comprehensives checks and balances specifically relating to budgets. Congress isnt even majority democrat, so why are you blaming this 1 man? Surely there are 535 more units of blame to distribute. Concerning print, print, print, The Bernake is soley responsible for that; Obama has no authority of him in that regard.
It starts at the top and Obama is the most powerful man in the world. Bernanke was re-appointed by Obama, and he knew exactly what Bernanke had done to "save us" from the so called financial calamity. Those budgets were his to sign, and sign them he did, each with 1.5 trillion or more in overspending. Through his incompetence, or his maliciousness, he has wrought destruction upon our nation. I doubt we will recover in my lifetime.
Instead of further confusing the tax code, why not simply switch to a flat tax, same rate on all sources, no exceptions, no exemptions.
If money is new to you, whether interest, dividends, capital gains, insurance payout, or wages, it is NEW TO YOU, and you pay the flat tax rate which is set to lock in revenues at a percentage of GDP.
"As to whether they would subsequently relocate to far more hospitable countries, such as those that don't foment class warfare, and implicitly invite a civil war, that remains yet to be seen."
Thank you God. My strategy of locking up 100's of exclusive real estate listings is going to pay off even bigger than I ever dreamed! What a bunch of dumbasses! Everyone is already locating to Vilcabamba where it's actually free. Yippee! Goddamnit. I'll need bigger offices.
Dear Tyler - Lord I love the way your mind works. You are a gift to the people of the world. Please do not ever think that what you do isn't appreciated. More than you'll ever know.
The more tax, whether it comes from rich or from poor, is giving the government more money which is taking power and freedom from the people and giving it to the government. I'd rather have freedom and be a bit jealous
Before we add more tax to anyone, let's first get federal spending to less than 18% of GDP. Then we can have the debate of what goes into the 18% -- military, healthcare, education, whatever -- that is what a functioning democracy does. Instead we have an increasingly controlling federal and state government taking more and more and spending yet more
And beware of the rule of unintended consequences. Remember the luxury tax? It was a soak-the-rich-tax everyone liked. That is until boat manufactuers, airplane builders and others failed because the rich objected to being singled out. Out went a lot of jobs of the middle class in decent paying opportunities. Raise capital gains taxes and I promise there will be less capital gains.
We need to start taxing consumption, not income. Want more of something subsidize it. Less of something tax it. In the miserable excuse of a tax system, we do the opposite and stick the bills to future generations. Shameful
About 65% of this board is totally backwards in their thinking. Tax this tax that. Wrong.
Stop spending. Govt is WAY WAY too big. Cut spending, cut government. They just shuffle paper and pass laws to take away your freedom.
That is the point of the tax code. Rope-a-dope people in to not understanding anything. But some how feeling good when the hear an advert on the radio saying "bring your refund check here, we'll double it for on the price of our product _____" Or the new stuff. "Come to tax prepH. We'll give you your refund NOW. no need to wait for the return to be processed."
Put in a simple tax, that is tangible and fair, and everyone pays atleast something into and people will vote for the size of government needed at any point in time. Which right now, is certainly less than 25% GDP based on outcomes for the last 3 years.
Income tax pays interest to the banksteres on the money we use.
Government does not need more money, to the contrary, they need a 90%reduction in budget. Government is where hope and happiness
die.
Comet Elenin deflection by unknown force NASA images
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4O-SIHNUPIw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z8f6-kdVl8
Comet Elenin heads towards Earth
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zRFAbkDCZxo
COMET ELENIN or SOMETHING ELSE - NASA PREPARING FOR OUTSIDE THREAT 2011
http://digitaljournal.com/article/311009
Amateur observers studying NASA images from STEREO see Comet Elenin split into two parts (featured video). Leonid Elenin is said to have confirmed Comet's disintegration. Update: Comet Elenin mystery took another twist as amateur observers Kelly and Rob Collins posted images from NASA's STEREO system showing the Comet splitting into two as a result of shockwaves from an immense explosion. STEREO stands for Solar Terrestrial Relations Observatory, a NASA project to study solar activity and its effect on the earth. Sydneystargazers.com reported that Leonid Elenin had confirmed the Comet's disintegration on his own web site spaceobs.org . This information, and whether the web site actually belongs to Leonid Elenin, have not been independently verified. There has been no announcement or update by NASA on Comet Elenin.If the Comet has indeed been destroyed, this raises the questions of how, by what, or even by whom. Another question is if the debris from the Comet will reach the earth. End of update.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AwZb-ERpY-U
The Truth About Comet Elenin
Magnetic North Pole Moving 40 Miles Per Yearhttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_lH1mkcDGiU
Posted August 31, 2011, 11:15 am MT President Barack Obama coming to Colorado as part of western states tourhttp://blogs.denverpost.com/thespot/2011/08/31/president-obama-to-come-to-colorado-sept-27th/37848/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PorTcummNbU
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z3ufcQQH3Ro&feature=related
the guy who discovered Elenin now has pictures showing it?? disapearing.. with a halo.. like the video above.
http://astropt.org/blog/2011/09/16/cometa-elenin-desaparece/
if a picture is worth a thousand words this is worth a million or two..
So... this is bullish for netflix, right?
Now thats Funny!
but watch the video with the Borhers walking thru the nasa pics and then the last link of elenin blowin up / dispaeraing? its worth a look bro. I dont know what it is but it looks like something.
JW--I read and truly appriciate your posts about what's going on "out there" Former wannabe astronomer with no math skills. Milestones
The Pictures from Nasa the Borthers go thru.. frame by frame.. and then the last link.. with the comet blowing up / disapearing???? is worth a looksie.
I dont know what it is, but I know what I like!
TAX THE RICH! Someone has to pay for the defense budget - and since the rich have the most to protect they should pay - at least a trillion a year! As for the poor, why do they need a defene department, other than maybe to provide jobs as cannon fodder - its not like the rich (Bush, Cheney et al) ever serve.
You hit on a good point. The use of the Military especially overseas is to basically protect Corporate Interests overseas. Not the American people.
As much as I don't believe in this kind of crap, the Buffet Rule should be a 100% tax on any income from any source over $1 billion a year, this would really only effect a few dozen people most likely gaming the system anyway.
Also limit the lifetime gifting ability to trusts and foundations to $1 billion, Warren should be for this as he loves the estate tax. ;)
Millionaires are not the problem it's the Billionaire Oligarchs.
The system is broken and until we return to sound money we need a temporary solution.
That is why Buffet who never gave away a dime until the Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation donated the Money (or his stock) was to reduce his taxes that he had to pay.
The Greedy Old Man will not even leave and Money to his Children.
Waterfall,
I agree, what I want to see is exactly the Gross income of Buffet, and the Exact percentage of REAL income taxes paid in............
Let's see that RATIO & % is , and same for Bill Gates.
Even if your just Joe Schmuck, and you make $50k a year, your still paying almost 50% in taxes on it now.(before income taxes enter into it).
I would not be supprised if Buffet pays 0 in Taxes. His donation to the Gates Foundation would wipe any taxes he payed away. Plus, he might even get a loss carry forward.
Eat the kulaks and fuck rewards for private investment.
Eat the kulaks and fuck rewards for private investment.
Yeah, I'm going to be twice as productive now that the f@cking socialists/communists are in charge. NOT. Thinking more and more of moving my IP outside the country (not to mention my wealth). Put a big ole smacker wit yo lips right on my @ss. That's a big fu buddy.
Hey, here's a thought: why dont we just reduce government spending? Can we just try that F@#$ING ONCE?
Ron Paul 2012
Worked for Coolidge in the early '20s.
[ed. and some studyin' for all y'all: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-great-imbalance-critique-rec... ]
Hey, here's a thought: why dont we just reduce government spending? Can we just try that F@#$ING ONCE?
Ron Paul 2012
Worked for Coolidge in the '20s.
[ed. and some studyin' for all y'all: http://www.zerohedge.com/article/guest-post-great-imbalance-critique-rec... ]
I think Obama has realized he's a one-term president. This is his first action as a one-term president. I hope he has others.
I wish we could be so lucky to have someone who realized he/she would be a one-term president from the outset. That person wouldn't be so set on politics. I wish we had a president that was fixated on policy and the ultimate ramifications of said policy instead of someone who was fixated on the next election results. I think somoene who was only focused on his/her current term (instead of seeking the follow-on term) would be far more effective in representing the will of the public. A one-term president would represent a break from the lobbyists. After all, if a lobbyist can't promise funds for the next campaign, then that lobbyist is reduced to flat out bribery (which is still illegal in the US ... unlike the rest of the legalized bribery we have).
Truman realized he got the presidency as a fluke. He made it his policy to do the best he could for the US and not worry about being re elected.
PS he got re elected. In spite of making a lot of controversial decisions, that everyone said would hurt him with the electorate.
"mostly through years of hard work..."
hahahahahahahahahahahhahaha!
Yes yes, all those people who saved $480/week for forty years to become millionaires. Tell you what, I'm actually willing to give any millionaires who got there through hard work, a pass. But I do support taxing the shit out of all the crony capitalist that got rich "working" for publicly traded companies, "investing" by front-running lobbyist pressure, and outsourcing jobs. When 43% of GDP comes from government spending, the "hard-working capitalist" is supplanted by the "psuedo-capitalist parasite."
Maybe you don't understand the difference.
So I'm sick and tired of hearing rich people compare themselves to Steve Jobs. Of course, we could settle this debate in a matter of hours. All that it would take is for the IRS to open up its database to people who can actually analyze data.
Fun facts: There were 43,653 new millionaires created 2001-09. The average millionaire "earned" $70,000 more in 2009 than in 2001 AND paid $97.000 less in taxes (presumably so they could create jobs). For every new millionaire there are 167 new unemployed and 641 new food stamp recipients.
....but, but taxing millionaires will ruin everything?
really?
+ 1,000,000
But, but if you tax the wealth creators than how will A-rod, Zack Efron and Paris Hilton create the necessary jobs required to pull our great country out of recession?
You could confiscate everything form the likes of Paris, Zack, Snooki, et. al. and sell them to an outfit that does sacrifices on Pay Per View (Pay Par Sacrifice, "Live Death") to raise funds for something worthy for all I care. And I betcha that shit'd get humongous ratings. Could have benedictions, prayers, flyovers, marching bands, cheer leaders, halftime shows... the whole fucking works!
What the Hell, we already sponsor mass extermination at the Nation Level, either by War or Looting, the Peasanrty are gonna be getting Restless.... this'll keep 'em glued to the electronic media. Gubamint can even tax the shit on top of selling it and place Subliminal Messages in it to Pacify the Natives!
Win-Win All Around.
I oughta be in marketing.
But, but if you tax the wealth creators than how will A-rod, Zack Efron and Paris Hilton create the necessary jobs required to pull our great country out of recession?
"mostly through years of hardwork" ... no it was actually "(the rich are rich for a reason: they tend to be, for the most part, quite adept at finding loopholes)"..oh, hold on, which is it?
Best.post.today!
How long have the Bush tax cuts been effective? Oh, speaking of "effective", look how many jobs that has created.
And we're about to extend the same thing, again, and expect a different result. We know what that defines, don't we?
Top post there, Mark.
Oh, it was just luck, manipulation, graft, criminal, etc... *shaking head*
Let's get to the core of the problem, which apparently Teddy Roosevelt noted back in 1906:
"I again recommend a law prohibiting all corporations from contributing to the campaign expenses of any party. Such a bill has already past one House of Congress. Let individuals contribute as they desire; but let us prohibit in effective fashion all corporations from making contributions for any political purpose, directly or indirectly."
courtesy of The Big Picture -- http://www.ritholtz.com/blog/2011/09/weekend-smorgasbord-from-invictus/
We are frickin' doomed in any case, because big money talks and it will protect itself as best it can. Obama is just looking for votes. There is no way in hell this would ever come to pass and Obama knows it. The man is a master deceiver.
Boo YAH...
The SCOTUS ruling that corporations are "people" was an abomination to freedom, and their ruling that money donation for them is free speech was the end of democracy in America. Till we change that legalized bribery with an airtight constitutional amendment we will be wage slave serfs in our own land and nothing else will change. But ironically we can't even do that since business now owns our constitution, and even if we could change it you get Neocon fascists like BushCo that thinks our constitution is nothing but a goddamned piece of paper.
Defense,shit! A gun or five in every house, a man or woman that knows how to use it, and a few nuclear subs! Everything else we have is for our colonizing efforts!
Omf'ng! All tax's can be derived from alcohol, tobacco, and teriffs!
WTF has government done for anyone?! Oh ya, kill millions!
I can't believe ZH'ers fell for this!
BTF'nD!
Government today is primarily serving its bankster and corporate masters. But I'd argue it has done some good in the past - the national parks system, infrastucture, safety (less and less these days), education (today, marginally), justice (again, less so these days). But today it responds to lobbyists rather than the public.
Obama: c'mon folks, show me some love. If you love me, you'll pass uhh this new jobs bill. If you defy my request.. uhhhh ..unemployment will go up another 1%. C'mon America, feel my love to ease ingesting my peas.
On a separate note. New Europe doom report. LOL
GEAB N°57 is available! Global systemic crisis - Fourth quarter 2011: Implosive fusion of global financial assets
Wonder who the DNC is gonna run for prez in 2012?
How about if we also end the whole outside ownership paradigm (publically held corporations) and the casino it has created -- a casino that is viewed by many as some friggin' necessity. Give me a break. You need capital, borrow it or bring in private partners. Once there has been an IPO, equities becomes primarily a game of perception.
Stupid people shouldn't breed. Let's put that in the tax code.
As I went through a small airport this weekend I had to stop and count the 32 TSA worker standing two by two, talking and just not doing anything. No cost cutting ideas from the Emperor? At this airport it could have been done with 8 or less. What a joke! Of course I couldn't count the supervising idiots in the back office or behind the glass watching porn.....
"A democracy is always temporary in nature; it simply cannot exist as a permanent form of government. A democracy will continue to exist up until the time that voters discover that they can vote themselves generous gifts from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates who promise the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that every democracy will finally collapse due to loose fiscal policy, which is always followed by a dictatorship."
Tytler (Probably)
In the original America, only people who Owned Property could Vote. With the exception that if you did not Own Property you could pay a Poll Tax. Everything shifted when the got rid of the Poll Tax.
Uh, "and the Republic for which it stands"
Here's a NEW video from Chuck Woolery "On Taxing the Rich"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ifpEROFT-U
So...buy?
Disclosure: I am short hubris and long patience. I WILL work at WalMart to pay my cable bill. Macro truths do not affect me because my shit is micro. Some might call me a sheep, but I'm more cow-ish.
The onlything I've ever wanted from my government is for it to get out of my way, and out of my pocket.
Nowadays tell the young'ens to work under the table, get on every social program they can find, buy g&s with their money, and when tshtf leave the country. Anything else is a disservice.
the rich folk have already bravly ran and bravly fled. nothing left but the old home place as realestate prices go down. open the windows and doors and donated to the fire dept
Grasping bastards, the lot of you. This site doesn’t know its arse from its elbow, endlessly moaning about the breaks for the uber wealthy and the lives of the rich, but when it comes to taxing just the plain old wealthy millionaires - "ewwwww its calss warfare, they are commie bastards", "yak yak oh no the stock market will fall(??), what a disaster" , "ewww this is civil war"... Some of you all might want to sit down and hammer out the political line for this site, because at the moment you just sound like dickheads trying to ride two horses at the same time.
Just drain Buffet's personal treasury dry, for shooting his fukking liberal mouth off. a$$hole. Cummon warren you fukk just quit your bitchin and send in your personal check. The gubbermint ain't gonna send it back, you pile of sh!t.
I'm still waitin for my "drop of whatever" from the damn Reaganomics trickle down effect. Fuckin TAX the livin shit out of 'em and I don't want to here your shit about "it'll be a job killer"! They didn't get their wealth from hard work, they've got it from investing, using taxpayer/real worker monies given to THEM by our fraudulent government. WHO works for WHOM here!? Seems to me that the American Taxpayer is the Employer, and the fucking Government is the Employee. REMOVE THE SS TAX CAP, TAX THE MILLIONAIRES, LET PEOPLE CROSS STATE LINES FOR ALL OF THEIR INSURANCE NEEDS, TAX ALL EQUITY TRADES, CUT MILITARY WASTE, STOP PRICE MANIPULATION ON PM'S, VOTE THESE FUCKING CROOKS OUT OF OFFICE, TERM LIMITS, STOP CORPORATE POLITICAL CONTRIBUTIONS, MICHELLE OBUMMER HAS A BIG ASS, QUIT BAILING OUT EVERY COUNTRY FROM HERE TO TIMBUKTU, GET THE MILITARY OUT OF EUROPE AND EVRY WHERE ELSE AND PUT ON THE BORDERS, that's for starters. Hang the Traitors!!!!
You''re so bloated from lapping up partisan propaganda that you're about to explode!! Fucking moron!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BlK62rjQWLk
Where do you get "partisan propaganda" you dildo headed pompus prick? BOTH parties suck shit, and I don't consider myself a bigot, I just hate all of the corrupt fucks! Go ahead and disagree with that too, shit for brains....................................
+14.7 Trillion
Lolmao is right.
Paying $ to Feds is killing the world.
Go sgorem, go sgorem, go sgorem....
LOL @ all the fools calling Obama a muslim. Damn that muslim, oh fuck, he just killed a couple hundred thousand of his own people in perpetuating wars in muslim nations and starting a few new ones. What a fine and upstanding muslim he is. Man, the Obama hate is so strong ZH'erswill be openly calling him the anti-christ soon. Bible bashing, white-collar., parasitic fucking rednecks. How about you do a real day's work. Produce something rather than contribute to a failing economic system.
Lenin at least had a pair. This guy is embarrassing. What a goof.
Producing something does contribute to a failing system.
And history repeats. Again. Somethings really never change. So curious that mistakes so are attracted to repeating themselves. Attack the solution. Not the problem. Never the problem. Because that would be YOU.
And that is a problem.
Wow, I had no idea about Pay.gov ... forget MMT, game theory says this is totally ridiculous. Do they actually get any money? One born every minute I guess.
http://www.cnn.com/2011/US/09/17/nevada.plane.crash/
military industrial complex lovers and retirees get a taste of the real life..........
A man, who can't even let old tax breaks expire, threatens to raise taxes!? How deleciously entertaining.
Bring on the Buffett rule, followed by the Buffet rule where morbidly obese people may only fill their plate 3 times as stipulated by law.
http://politicalhumor.about.com/b/2010/02/11/the-george-w-bush-billboard...
george bush miss me yet signs . so we traded one traitorous chimp for another.......fuck em all..........
Now here's a taboo concept: tax the sacred church cows:
From The Economist (www.economist.com)
“THE constitution does not require the government to exempt churches from federal income taxation or from filing tax and information returns.” The potential implications of this comment, in a report earlier this month by Senator Chuck Grassley of Iowa, are starting to dawn on a large chunk of America’s charitable sector, which has until now taken for granted that it is exempt from tax.,
oh its coming, imho. now then , if they try this, the sheep will quickly realize they are not in fact free even though they think somehow they are free and that they have gotten the idea someway that they are free but in fact of course are not free. the same could be said about guns. i am sure they are eyeing those church properties while foaming at the mouth with the possible tax revenues etc....
Tax the churches. They, like any other institution should welcome it.
start with all the "chuch of satans", many of whom openly mock the IRS. If they have enough patrons who donate they will do fine.
Tax Bachmans hubbies' "chuch of I can make you not gay."
Tax planned parenthood. If Bill and Melinda Gates think reproductive services are important for women, there will be plenty of money in thier coffers.
if they do tax the churches , the churches perhaps will become cauldrons of anti government rhetoric, like they were one time before in our early history...
Not too taboo I think. Seriously though, if the church puts all of its money towards charity, then it pays 0 taxes. If, instead they choose to build mega-churches and own private jets... well, maybe they can spare a little more to feed the poor.
"very few of the people who, mostly through years of hard work, have succeeded in breaking through the vaunted 7 digit net worth figure"
Tyler, I dig your site, and very greatful for the effort that you put into it. But on this one, my message to you is simple -- FUCK OFF with your defense of hard working millioners. Attribute it to anything else: business accumen, working the system, high IQ, connections, inherited wealth, dumb luck, but quit pretending that through "hard work" alone one can accumulate so much. If that was all that it took, every delivery boy in town would be a gazlillioner.
i remember one time a woman approached bush at some campaign stop and told him she worked 3 jobs. he talked about her in his stump speech and said how this was so uniquely american...yeh right.........i am not about class warfare but the rich do get richer and the poor get poorer and it takes money to make money etc. time to hit the reset button........
The rich get richer because of inflation. If the government did not have the ability to steal your savings through inflation then somebody who worked their dick off doing the worst job imaginable at the lowest possible pay could eventually get ahead if they saved every last cent they could get their hands on. This is where the concept of the "American Dream" comes from and there did exist a time when it was true. However, the problem is that we now live in a society where the harder you work means absolutely nothing because our government has the ability to move the finish line any time they see fit.
If you say the rich get richer because of inflation meaning compound interest on unearned income then there is nothing to argue about in that statement, but it is the very same mechanism that makes the poor poorer. Eventually poverty will reach a critical mass and riots will break out, that will be the justification for martial law and pograms against the poor, can you say FEMA camps? Arbeit Macht Frei.
Paris Hilton Responds:
Dear "Tyler" and supporters of this article, thanks so much for watching out for my best interests. Today I opened my monthly 50k dividend check while sitting at my pool and then checked ZH on my pink jewel encrusted ipad. I was so happy to see so many supporting my lifestyle and my approach to creating jobs. Keep fighting the good fight...MINE! As long as I don't have to pay the same rate as my maid, cook, assistant, stylist, and waxer I will continue to create great jobs like these and will also employ a team of jewelers to have everything I own bedazzeled just like my ipad.
Cheers...Bitchez
Which pool PH? The black bottom pool at the side of the manse? Or the bright blue pool out back? We really care and eat that shit up so please tell us. What were you wearing? What was the cabana boy wearing?
While Americans sit around circle-jerking each other looking for a sucker to dump the debt burden onto the BRICs are moving fast-forward to become dominate powers.
It is pretty pathetic that we have so little desire to get honest about a few facts:
1) the poor cannot pay our debt. Heck they cannot even pay their rent.
2) the rich don't really want to work and will do anything to keep their power. No I don't mean you libertarian idiots that are intellectually dishonest and overly righteous but do nothing yourselves to wean from the system and live by your values. The rich are the the category of folks that do not spend their time on blogs arguing with union bashing dolts and left-wing hippies.
3) the middle class is disappearing rapidly into an illusion of a mirage wrapped in a reflection, they certainly won't be around to pay the debt.
So this leaves default as the inevitable outcome.
Guys that think you are part of the rich remember that you will be the first fed to the angry masses when the riots start. Enjoy your borrowed lives now.
Those of us that know better aren't running around insulting the poor and union bashing, we aren't inflaming people by demanding the social safety nets are removed or calling them lazy. Instead, some of us are smart enough to realize it is time to rebuild our communities and work with each other.
Remember, when a man loses everything, he loses it. I would rather be on the side that knows how to survive without 50000 sq foot mansions, butlers, maids, and sycophants as my circle of friends.
cheers to you.
ST,
You nailed it. I especially liked the next to last paragraph.
I'll never understand the shoe-shine boys who take up the argument for the rich. I once listened to a guy rail against the death tax. I stopped him and asked, "Do you even know anybody who will be effected by it?"
BTW, the current exemption is $5,000,000 and excludes the primary residence.
http://www.wwlaw.com/600.htm
Excellent buffer flush Stack Trace!
Income taxes are slavery. We ought to be ashamed of ourselves for "paying" them.
Hands off my money, you fuckin' Commies!
Mirror image of the Roman Empire as it declined. To fill the coffers it increasingly turned on the population and looted them. Eventually the rich escaped elsewhere in order to keep what little wealth they had left. The Empire continued relying on free bread and circuses (aka welfare and the NFL) to keep the populace sated. With so much corruption - including that of the military - there was no one to defend the empire when the barbarians raided. And so history repeats itself.
"To fill the coffers it increasingly turned on the population and looted them..."
I am a bit turned on right now, does that mean I have coffers to fill? Or am I about to be looted? Just a little morning snark there :)
But I agree with you totally about the Roman Empire and modern America, we change now or we will go the same way. What some don't understand is that the world has a really good chance of entering a dark age at our demise just as Europe did post Empire. Yersinia Pestis and all.
"such as those that don't foment class warfare, and implicitly invite a civil war"
Get serious. Where do the rich think they are going to go? Somalia? Denmark? China? (apparently the majority of millionaires in China want to move to Canada or the US.
The rich have engaged in all out class warfare on the middle class for thirty years. Obama pushes back a little teensy inadequate bit and you have a hissy fit.
Yomana hasn't pushed back - he's accelerated the trend. Bailouts, expansion of the wars, endless spending, fascism ala Obamacare, corruption ala Fast and Furious and the admission of collaborating with drug gangs.
Just how many scandals and fuck ups do you need before you see your black messiah for what he is - a con man.
There, fixed it for you.
Oh I forgot. Blacks like Jews are never guilty of anything. They are always, always victims.
Divide and conquor...
Yep, we are on the downhill slope; the end of Amerika as we know it. Much of what I am reading is that there should be a review of how someone came to their wealth to assess worthiness. Wow, just freakin wow... Quis custodiet ipsos custodes
Really I now agree that the Emporer should spend more of my money since I do not know what is best. Even though more than 15% of my income goes to donations such as churchs and the poor that I control. No I don't make over a million each year.
The Emporer needs the money to keep Michelle on vacation around the world and out of the White House - a little pick-up basketball and lets make sure nobody leaves with their panties.. Wait until we all hear what is going on................
I was watching the news last night in Oakland and San Francisco. Almost every report was about people having their gold chains and cell phone taken in public areas. Then the story on how SF is dealing with the homeless youths that are invading the city. They steal, shit in yards do drugs and spread both lice and desease. Then they had on child who mother came to see him. She did want to get him off the street - she wanted him to go with her to get her welfare check and get some cigarrettes. Some of the happiest people I have seen lately. They all needed more tatoos and a 10th ring in the nose or lips. More metal their than Fort Knox. Oh, and the other report was about a church that had been buglarized for the third time and all the copper wire pulled from ceilings and walls.
This is not going to improve until everyone has a stake in the game. This is how our tax dollars are now used - until I see a plan - fuck those that don't pay and work. They could earn this picking up garbage in the street for these checks. Glad to be out of those cities.............
"call for a new minimum tax rate for individuals making more than $1 million a year to ensure that they pay at least the same percentage of their earnings as middle-income taxpayers, according to administration officials"
This will be a tax on the top line when it's over $1 million. This means all the loop holes used for those grossing $1 Million will have to pay something, not as it is now. This is morally right. The taxes paid should be about the same percentage for all, or may be even higher for those who make the most and can afford to pay it.
I would like a tax structure that makes it easy to move out of the low in come to the middle income, and harder and harder to move from the middle to the up one tenth of one percent at the top. Not to do so, is asking for blood in the streets.
It doesn't matter how much taxes you collect, there is no way to pay off the debt. That's the beauty of compound interest.
And constitutionally, none of us owe taxes on what we earn from our labor. Only corporations were liable for taxes on their profits. Oh wait, now that the Supremes have declared corporations to be 'persons' I guess they don't owe taxes either. Never mind.
It's taxes or inflation (government just prints money). Then it's everyone for them selves (no police, fires & EMC, schools, hospitals .....). We will pay because some one has to. It's just who. Right now the filthy rich pay little or nothing??? This gives them the money to hijack our government via billion dollar lobbies, and get all those loop holes just for them selves. Our government is no longer by & for the people. It's for the rich only. It's reached the point were blood runs in the street till a new government comes into being like what is happening in the middle east now. Wall street needs the police the keep the protestors away. Soon the number of protestors will be so large the police will have to give way, or start shooting. We all know what comes next. I just don't know why the filthy rich need so much money. They would rather see WMD's used on the people (they would have to because we so greatly out number them) before paying any taxes.
Fat bastards squealling like pigs, a market crash and the gooberment closer to collapse, it sounds to good to be true, so it probably is.
100% tax on profits
100% tax credit on losses
yw
Equal treatment under the law is such a passe notion.
It seems certain that we will all be fighting against and among ourselves why the rats run away with the goods, as dalio said we know how the machine works, so lets not be surprised
Why politicize this? The fact of the matter is the 'rentier class' and their 'white collar' sycophants have been disproportionate beneficiaries of Bernanke and Geither's economic policies. We must ask ourselves... do we care about those who have slipped inbetween the cracks? If not. Then killing them, if not letting them kill themselves, is the optiminal answser. If not, the oligarchs need to caugh up some cash for 'inefficient programs'.
this boggles the mind: why should millionaires finally after all of these years be beholden to a progressive tax rate? the outrage!
//sarc off/
and pls let's note that even after all of this, the average millionaire's tax write-off plan will still circumnavigate a large %age of this gambit bogus move. and markets will sell off irrespective of symbolic gestures and empty rhetoric.
Any attempt by the lower classes to tax the upper classes is called "class war". The opposite ---- any attempt by upper classes to reduce services to the lower classes --- is called "austerity" or "belt-tightening", like its a good thing we all just have to knuckle down and do.
Cynically, I think he's preparing for bracket creep. You know, when middle class salaries are in the $1000000 range due to rampant hyperinflation.
Quite brilliant actually. Get people all lathered up to soak the "rich" and then hit them with hyperinflation.
Interesting point. The higher inflation goes the higher incomes go. which in turn creates more Tax Revenue for the Government on inflated Dollars.
to drunk to be profound, just mad... damn it!
in other words it is very few of the people who, mostly through years of hard work, have succeeded in breaking through the vaunted 7 digit net worth figure.
LOL
I actually like the idea of higher capital gains, with lower dividend tax. Maybe then we get companies focused on returning actual cash to shareholders every year.
I think it will force companies to dilute shareholder value with employee options, stupid mergers, etc.
We have a class warfare going on. But b4 taxing individuals how about we lower the corporate tax rate and then ensure every company pays atleast that much in taxes.
But nobody is willing to bell the cat!
Anything over a million a year should flat out be taxed at 80% regardless of source and allow no deductions of any kind.
Zero Hedge, FTW
Taxing millionairs? E fucking gad! Better idea, why don't we cut their effective tax rate to something like half what the average guy pays and then when we need actual revenue to run government we can just borrow trillions and trillions from the fed (invented Zimbabwe dollars) in the name of rest of the people because those other poor slobs don't have shit to pay in, but we can pretend their kids and grandkids will.
Or, we can stop spending, of course you will not have schools, colleges and such, or roads, or a livable environment, or clean water, or private property rights/protection, or justice, electricity, fuel, doctors, in fact you probably would last about one week without government.
I know, lets spend smartly, ditch all debt, and get tax revenues from those that actually have it to pay, and if they refuse to pay show them to the border and plant a boot up thier ass on the way south.
Schools are paid for from Property Taxes not Income Taxes. Water is paid for thru the Water Bill and in Baltimore County the amount of consumption is also on your Property Tax Bill. Roads are paid thru the Gas Tax to Local and Federal Governments not Income Taxes.
Utilitys are paid for thru your Gas and Electric Bill and are regulated by Local Governments. Property Righs are determined thru Local Jurisdictions thru Zoning requirements.
Remember that Property Taxes are actually an Asset Tax. This Tax is in addition to the Income Taxes you pay.
Maybe they should have an Asset Tax for Stocks, like Real Estate.
In the Winter Home of the Great Satan, the pols have arranged for everything just like that, too... Dedicated taxes to fund individual efforts. Except the fuckers go sweep every coin of revenue into the same pot when it comes to budget time so that the idea of targeted taxes being applied to specific efforts is a fucking charade.
Moreover, they raid the state raids the taxes raised by counties and cities to fund their budget, whilst supporting a fucking bazillion different councils and commissions which do functionally Naught except grant politicians Humongoloid salaries to attend fuck all meetings.
All the crap about anything but outright cutting spending is a useless effort. The politicians will just game the system again.
Maybe where you are, in New York you pay property taxes AND then school taxes separately, often the school taxes are more than the property taxes. But, I was not speaking of income taxes alone, I was speaking generally of revenues, and I was not being specific about outgoes but mentioning all public goods, you think because you pay a separate water bill that clean water piped into houses will somehow survive a total collapse of government? Billing for such services only offsets part of the cost of provision of said services, just as bridge tolls will not pay for the old bridge or build a new one when it is needed. Anyway, taxes like sales taxes, use taxes, property (wealth) taxes all eventually come out of your income so in effect all taxes are income taxes. The argument that you can control how much or even whether you pay those other taxes by not buying a house, or driving across that bridge etc. may be fine, but then you could apply the same logic to income taxes, you can control those as well by making more or less, or by just moving away.
Must we be so hysterical? Of course you are seeing class war. What the hell does anyone expect? The MEDIAN income of Americans has stagnated over the past 15 years - dropped over the last three. And it is about to get worse - a lot worse. Social peace was purchased by copious credit - thats so yesterday! Sure, the Amerian populace is singularly dumb and manipulated, ergo the righteous anger of the great unwashed has been deviated by the Tea Party (reminiscent of National Socialism in Germany of the 30s) but that remains a minority phenomenon. As Riichard Nixon once said - this country is going so far to the Right you wont even recognize it! Well, its swinging back...
The argument that workers don't pay taxes and are paid too much. Oil going up is not inflation, but a raise is. The rich must be prodded to produce or they will get mad and fire us all, Regs hurt profits, what's a few sickies deaths worth?
The new slant, "job providers". Special tax status. Exemptions. Political power. Wars are good. Build your own damn bridge if you like them so much.
Most of all, just call people names. Those lazy money grubbing workers, teachers, and above all guvment people who test products.
Just think, we may get to learn the goose step. Health care, no one needs that crap. Sickness is sign of weakness and false idiology.
Screw the federation, any state should have the right to murder its citizens as it deems necessary. What the country needs is good cleansing, particularly non-believers.
We know who the master race.
Zero is not Zero.
That's wonderful: in other words it is very few of the people who, mostly through years of hard work, have succeeded in breaking through the vaunted 7 digit net worth figure. Well, what about all the guys working two or three jobs, trying desperately just to make ends meet.
C;mon! We have done super-well out of the corrupt system, and personally, I am lovin' it and hope it continues forever for my own egotistical benefit, but to imagine that justice is served by our getting a huge piece of the pie is soooooo hypocritical and self-serving!
The rich and I mean the rich not small time millionaires won't be bothered by this tax increase. They'll always pay a protionally lower tax percentage to the middle class and even the poor. You simply can't tax these people and the notion of it is absurd. Obama is making people feel good to think they're giving it to the elite. Little do they know it's all for show.
I know of a place where people are devout, have the right to keep and bear arms, have a death penalty, don't abuse one another with social security redistribution schemes, and don't pay taxes to an over-developped government.
I also know of a place where people are mostly agnostic, don't have any arms, have no death penalty, have a huge social security sector, and pay almost 50% of their income to their government.
So to cut the propagenda, do you prefer to live in Somalia or in Sweden ?
Desirdavenir,
1) Simpleton and misplaced cause-and-effect analysis.
2) Think really hard about your question, and let me rephrase it the way I hear it. Would you rather lean on the coattails of a lavish society for your own benefit, or would you rather be active in a place of need and provide some real value to the world?
The debate over who should pay what tax rate is a misdirection, and one that has no satisfactory solution (which is what keeps the argument alive and why the gubbmint is happy to toss new life into the debate from time to time).
Unless and until the root spending problem is dealt with (e.g., see Knukles 50% plan, way above), the tax debate is akin to flailing at one another while treading water 50 miles away from shore (we all go down, just at different rates).
If we cannot set the "class" arguments aside and see what our common interest is - reducing wasteful government spending - we might as well go from treading water to dunking one another.
My two cents:
No love for the cheaters, whether they are at the TPTB end or the leeching-off-others end.
Admire and support the honest earners, whether union, entrepreneur, or on the job-seeking beat in earnest.
Empathize with the distraught. If you've never been there, you don't know what it means.
Selah...
A brilliant move by Obama:
1) It drags this sad fact of inequality into the American consciousness
2) It will lay the blame of a bad economy on Congress which will reject the notion (because they are corrupt)
3) It shows he is willing to distance himself from Wall Street (not really since he is a WS shill)