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Obama On The Topic Of Mandates

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Earlier, we presented a slightly more idealistic, slightly less gray, slightly less mathematically challenged version of the president talking to ABC's George Stephanopolous on the topic of whether or not the Affordable Care Act should be treated as tax. Obama said "I absolutely reject that notion". The Supreme Court, however, whether with a last minute change of heart by Chief Justice Roberts for whatever reasons, or not, disagreed in what ended up being a shocking hail mary effort, and essentially said that Obama's entire spin campaign of Obamacare as 'not a tax' is wrong, in the process making Obamacare constitutional but also making it the largest tax increase in the history of the US. We are eagerly looking for the CBO's scoring of how the ACA will impact the parabolic charts of projected future US deficit and debt. In the meantime, once again looking back in time, we present an even younger version of the president, all the way back in 2008, sharing his thoughts on the now so very crucial topic of mandates. To wit: "If a mandate was the solution, we could try that to solve homelessness by mandating everybody buy a house. The reason they don't have a house is they don't have the money." He is right. Hopefully, this rather insightful allegory into cause and effect from 4 years ago is not a preamble into what the SCOTUS may have just unleashed with the imminent arrival of the Affordable Housing Act.

Tangentially, for the best unbiased, and politics-free read of today's Supreme Court decision, we recommend the following piece by Reuters' Allison Frankel, titled "SCOTUS: What Congress can't regulate, it can tax." An excerpt:

"It is estimated that four million people each year will choose to pay the IRS rather than buy insurance," the court wrote. "We would expect Congress to be troubled by that prospect if such conduct were unlawful. That Congress apparently regards such extensive failure to comply with the mandate as tolerable suggests that Congress did not think it was creating four million outlaws. It suggests instead that the shared responsibility payment merely imposes a tax citizens may lawfully choose to pay in lieu of buying health insurance."

 

In the majority opinion, Roberts raised the question of the propriety of such a tax. "If it is troubling to interpret the Commerce Clause as authorizing Congress to regulate those who abstain from commerce," he wrote, "perhaps it should be similarly troubling to permit Congress to impose a tax for not doing something." But he concluded that's not the right analysis. "The court today holds that our constitution protects us from federal regulation under the Commerce Clause so long as we abstain from the regulated activity. But from its creation, the Constitution has made no such promise with respect to taxes." The penalty is not a constitutionally barred "direct tax" (an ill-defined term that the Supreme Court has interpreted extremely narrowly), so, according to Roberts and the majority, it passes constitutional muster.

 

In her dissent, Ginsburg asked why the court needed to decide the Commerce Clause issue, since the majority's tax holding meant the law would be upheld regardless of its constitutionality under the Commerce Clause. Putting aside whatever intracourt politics underlie the splintered ruling, Roberts said the more natural reading of the individual mandate provisions of the ACA is that it's a "command to buy insurance," not that it's a tax. For that reason, he said, the Commerce Clause had to be considered first. "It is only because the Commerce Clause does not authorize such a command that it is necessary to reach the taxing power question," Roberts wrote.

Read the full analysis here.

 

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Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:14 | 2571494 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

How do I put this....

Obama is an idiot.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:17 | 2571498 economics9698
economics9698's picture

NWA.  I hate the pos. HNIC.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:26 | 2571523 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

In other news regarding Obama and mandates:

US clears China, Singapore from Iran oil sanctions

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/feedarticle/10311817

"The Obama administration on Thursday cleared China and Singapore from possible U.S. economic penalties, citing their sharp cuts in imports of Iranian oil, as an American deadline arrived for banks to stop processing petroleum transactions with Tehran........

 

 

"A total of 20 world economies have now qualified for such an exception," Clinton said in a statement......Thursday's action now makes all of Iran's biggest oil purchasers free from the threat of seeing their banks cut off from the American financial system."

Can someone elaborate?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:28 | 2571534 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

In more Supreme Court action:

http://article.wn.com/view/2012/06/28/SD_vets_on_fake_medals_ruling_by_S...

On Thursday, the Supreme Court struck down a federal law making it a crime to lie about having received the Medal of Honor and other prized military awards. The court voted 6-3 Thursday in favor of Xavier Alvarez, a former local elected official in California who falsely claimed he was a decorated war veteran.

....with justices branding the false claim "contemptible" but nonetheless protected by the First Amendment.

Lying is now free speech.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:35 | 2571556 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Lying always has been protected speech.  If lying were sanctionable - the advertising/marketing/lobbying industry would be at risk - and we know the corporatocracy wouldn't allow that, right?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:44 | 2571580 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

& your husband wants to be a girl...

~~~

CHEERS... (NOW ZERO HEDGE)... INTRO SONG...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h-mi0r0LpXo

 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:20 | 2572034 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

I promised as HIT PIECE on Obamacare at my blog.

Here you go world, "Obamacare: Bad Medicine for America"

http://tinyurl.com/8a3fe66

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 00:29 | 2572310 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

unfortunately, Obama is not the only fool on the hill   

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 21:42 | 2571932 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Those leeching of taxpayer largess have exactly ZERO rights. Rather, they should be subject to 24x7 video, and audio surveillance, body cavity searches, and lie detector, drug testing.

Actually, we know they are lying so replace lying with occular penetration.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:55 | 2571782 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Think of O as the Manchurian candidate and then alot of things begin to make sense.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 23:19 | 2572184 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Yep.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 21:11 | 2571833 Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

It means america has lost the power it used to throw around so arrogantly.  Everything changes.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 21:16 | 2571855 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

The justices, well most of them, aren't idiots and yet....the distinction they make between the commerce clause is how it differs from a tax, and yet the net result, semantics and sophistry aside, is that it extracts more monies from American's in a MANDATORY FORCED MANNER, be it through binary forced options. So you may call it Obamacare, you may call it chicken or anything else, but the bottom line is that we have passed YET ANOTHER TAX, though a most unusual one, once again. All the goverment knows is taxing power and the spending power of it's enslaved citizenry. The founding father's would have been aghast by all of this. I'm not sure how these justices can, in good conscience, interpret yet another command to the citizenry to yield to more "laws" well above and beyond.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 00:44 | 2572319 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

well said. when I applied to law school my favorite english professor said it is nothing more than glorified literary criticism. But this latest twist of verse is indeed just another curse the next generation. Our children are getting crushed under our ignorance, our arrogance, and our lies and will soon rise against us

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 08:19 | 2572710 machineh
machineh's picture

From the post: 'The penalty is not a constitutionally-barred "direct tax" ...'

What a joke. In 1789, this meant that the federal goverment was never to directly tax citizens.

The Supreme Court has not only raped the constitution, it has degraded the language with its foul excretions.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 10:55 | 2573249 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

what founding fathers unfortunately omitted was constitutionally-barred loophole amendment...because the supreme court has found more loopholes on the loopholes gilded in bullshit legalize.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:18 | 2571505 Michael
Michael's picture

Fuck You Obama and socialists, I'm voting for Obama 100% cause you need more cow bell.

blue oyster cult/chris walken original more cowbell

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0uvVZg4Tw4

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:52 | 2571529 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Barack O'Romney 2012!!!

Barry Soetoro, first partially black president causes a partial cut to the credit rating of the USA.

Barry Soetoro, white babies minority for the first time in the USA's history under his leadership.

Magical Underpants Mitt, Massachusetts ranked 47th in job creation among the (56?) states under his leadership.

Magical Underpants Mitt, instituted the Commie Healthcare System in Massachusetts that Barry Soetoro yearns to implement for the entire country.

Both supported by banksters and MIC.

Barack O'Romney 2012, FTW!!!

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 09:57 | 2573065 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

funny

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 21:02 | 2571809 Freewheelin Franklin
Freewheelin Franklin's picture

FWIW, here's a real Socialist's (Mutualist) view on Obamacare.

 

http://c4ss.org/content/10777?fb_action_ids=3354603111017&fb_action_type...

 

Not that I agree with everything Carson says, but he seems to have nailed this.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:20 | 2571508 Newsboy
Newsboy's picture

Obama is the red flag.

The sword you don't see is what threatens your life.

No sense getting mad at the red flag.

It is controlled by the same hand that controls the sword, and which taunts you unseen.

Later, it will dine on you, unless you turn and escape.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:24 | 2571528 economics9698
economics9698's picture

The fascist mother fuckers on Wall Street, the Fed, and Washington.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:29 | 2571539 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

RIP Joseph Stack.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:31 | 2571544 taniquetil
taniquetil's picture

"I am confident that if people have the chance to buy high quality health care that is affordable, they will do so...

 

If they don't, we will make them do so"

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:48 | 2571603 max2205
max2205's picture

Not according to gAyBC. FUCK YOU Diane

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:00 | 2571638 Taterboy
Taterboy's picture

Never let a welfare baby grow up to be President. They just don't know where money comes from.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 08:25 | 2572725 machineh
machineh's picture

Or a CIA test-tube baby, either. 

They DO know where the money comes from: grabbed at gunpoint from rubes and suckers.

Or else PRINTED to 'overturn the existing basis of society by debauching the currency,' as Lenin prescribed.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 21:47 | 2571946 Freddie
Freddie's picture

There are quite a few idiots who post on ZH who voted for this shit.  Nice job idiots.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:22 | 2572043 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1

Yes, Freddie, they got their Hope & Change.

I promised as HIT PIECE on Obamacare at my blog.

Here you go world, "Obamacare: Bad Medicine for America"

http://tinyurl.com/8a3fe66

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:15 | 2571501 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

I don't even care anymore.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:18 | 2571511 Intelligence_In...
Intelligence_Insulter's picture

That's the spirit. 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:27 | 2571533 Ineverslice
Ineverslice's picture

You will, when you're livin' in a van down by the river.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 21:00 | 2571802 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

that's exactly the reaction they expect and want I'd say. Me. I'm thinking of some sort of protest but I'm not sure what form will work best. Not paying the taxes is kind of obvious but as an individual it just lands you in jail. This is the day individual liberty died.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 21:50 | 2571954 Freddie
Freddie's picture

If people cancelled TV service, or at least those fed up with being serfs, you might see some "change" real quick.  Americans traded liberty for a TV clicker and serfdom. Meanwhile on ZH we are getting Obama banner ads all over.   

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:18 | 2571510 _SILENCER
_SILENCER's picture

Obama is a smug, gloating asshole.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:42 | 2571577 salvadordaly
salvadordaly's picture

<<<<<<<PUNCH HIM IN THE NOSE

<<<<<<<PUNCH HIM IN THE BALLS

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 21:24 | 2571880 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

It's times like this when I wish there was a third voting button, so I could pick

<<<<<<<<<<<PUNCH HIM IN BOTH

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:19 | 2571513 RacerX
RacerX's picture

I sure hope we get some CHANGE this November.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:27 | 2571532 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Gary Johnson.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:01 | 2571643 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Revolution.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 23:39 | 2572235 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Real hope and change comes at 3100 fps.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 08:35 | 2572746 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

that kind of narrows you down to a .308(or equivalent) with a 168 to 180 grain bullet and not much else

i tender that you could achieve some hope and change over a wider range of velocities, allowing greater 'class participation' 

i'm a player at 2900 fps or less(already over the local ranges max velocity allowed)

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:48 | 2571600 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Is it that much better getting reamed by the red-head of the two-headed monster rather than the blue head?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 21:52 | 2571963 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Depends. Is the red head Lauren Lyster?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:19 | 2571517 Quantitative_Ap...
Quantitative_Appeasing's picture

From now on I will support any outrageous mandate and/or spending proposals, the more inane the better.

The system will not be fixed until it breaks. Lets start the FSA organization with the sole purpose of supporting idiots

in power to speed that up.

 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:32 | 2571545 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Need to start drafting an Amendment to the Constitution that states every citizen is entitled to $100,000/month from the government. I'll gather signatures once drafted.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:40 | 2571573 you enjoy myself
you enjoy myself's picture

yeah, i was thinking the Repubs can have an awful lot of fun with this if they get mischievous.  why not mandate that everyone has to own a gun?  why not mandate that everyone has to join a gym?  what about a forced purchase of a tim tebow jersey.  you can apply the exact same reasonings to those mandates, both legally and legislatively, as you can to health insurance.

the proper antidote to power grabs is ridicule.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:01 | 2571641 Stimulati
Stimulati's picture

The mandate that every able white man own a gun has been done.  The founders had no problem with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Militia_Acts_of_1792

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:17 | 2571679 you enjoy myself
you enjoy myself's picture

true, but it wasn't done under the power of taxation or the commerce clause - it was done under the militia clause.  so i guess i technically picked a bad hypothetical. 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:28 | 2571703 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

 I hear that Satan hates to be mocked.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 16:48 | 2574627 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

yes, ironically, he hates to look bad

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 08:38 | 2572758 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

http://romneyisaunicorn.com/

 

fits your premise of ridicule i believe

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:01 | 2571519 Stimulati
Stimulati's picture

A tax for those who would be free riders and that by statute in the ACA can not be enforced. Even Romney could support that. In fact, he did in Massachusetts.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:21 | 2571522 PulpCutter
PulpCutter's picture

"...largest tax increase in US history..."??

Total baloney.  You can shout idiocy like that all you want, but the facts are against you and Americans are begining to understand that TeaBaggers are nuts.

America spends 2X on healthcare, because the private insurance industry has it's hand in the till, and because clinicians here get paid 2X what they would elsewhere in the world.  ACA takes the first steps (FINALLY) towards fixing this mess, and getting the costs down. 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:51 | 2571563 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

This is just a first step?

Then what's the purpose of the ACA then?

It should have fixed the current health care mess in one fell swoop.

So, I guess this is a clarion call to re-elect Obama so that he can finish fixing the healthcare mess that he was unable to fix in the first place with Obamacare?

When arguing with a whiney liberal, all arguments make logical sense.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:03 | 2571652 Stimulati
Stimulati's picture

"It should have fixed the current health care mess in one fell swoop"

Only a stupid person would think that's possible with our divided government

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:41 | 2571738 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

You mean the devided government that passed the bill originally without even a vote? So divided eh?

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 08:52 | 2572819 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

I don't know where you got your information from but the health care bill went through both houses and was signed by the President. So it got the votes. And it was a House and Senate controlled by the democrazy party. It was after the 2010 election that the democrazies lost the House, but they still control the Senate and Presidency.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 08:52 | 2572804 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Divison has its purpose and isn't always bad.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:50 | 2571610 chet
chet's picture

I don't understand that either.  Charging some small percentage of the population $95 a year for not having health insurance is the "largest tax increase in history"?

Taxes are lower then when Obama took office.  He has never raised taxes.  Until now I guess, unintentionally.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:50 | 2571764 chet
chet's picture

Lots of junks, but no rebuttals...

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:15 | 2572016 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

deleted

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:29 | 2572055 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I didn't...looks like you're doing good on your own ;-)

The deal is..."the penalty" goes up incrementally over a few years until its "more affordable" to get insurance instead of pay the fine (tax, as SCOTUS is deluded in saying).

Boiling the frog...slowly.

By then...there will be no "private insurance" as everyone has taken the path of least resistance...*human nature) the fine/penalty/tax and...insurors will be out of biz.

Then you will have go to a .gov operation (no chocies here) staffed with book smart kids straight out of med school (with piles of student debt along with no practical experience) where you will be experimented on for them to gain "real life" experience...ala Castro...as they have a vested interest in paying off nothing but government loaned student debt.

Its a time based job only, not a career where excellence is rewarded with new patients based on demand for their excellent skill & services.

I hope this was helpful...cause thats exactly whats happening.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 21:11 | 2571816 lenitivelea
lenitivelea's picture

The health insurance payments are considered a tax by the ruling.

H. insurance averages 20k/year for a five-person family. That is $4,000 a year per person, WITH a group discount. Without, I'm sure it's even higher. An average income is, say, 50K (assuming you have a job). So, 4k is a 12.5% tax increase, the largest ever done by one bill.

There's the response to go with the junks. 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 21:25 | 2571881 hellas4life
hellas4life's picture

i think the penalty is the tax not the payments-though with all the semantics in this ruling who knows

 

anyway, "Our 2011 report on the costs of individual and family health insurance http:// news.ehealthinsurance.com/ pr/ehi/document/2011_Cost__and__Benefits_Report_FINAL.pdf and http://news.ehealthinsurance.com/pr/ehi/how-much-does-health-insurance-218305.aspx found that the average monthly premium paid for individual coverage for someone age 18-24 was $110. For policyholders age 25-34 it was $132."

 

excellent reueters article

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 21:56 | 2571967 lenitivelea
lenitivelea's picture

3k and 6%, then. 

lol, Reuters. 

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 16:56 | 2574656 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

I was paying 1300 a month for a family of six. I have now reduced that a few hundred but only by getting essentially catastrophic with a 5000 deductable and next to no drug coverage. 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 21:40 | 2571929 chet
chet's picture

The tax isn't the cost of health insurance.  The "tax" is the penalty on those who don't buy insurance under the new plan. 

The court basically said that this isn't a mandate at all, it's just a system that creates a tax penalty on a group of people who aren't doing something.  Roberts says that he doesn't like it, but it isn't illegal.

Read the decision.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 21:51 | 2571959 lenitivelea
lenitivelea's picture

The decision is wrong. The SCOTUS hasn't made any real decisions since the eigtheenth century; it's just a priesthood that comes down from the mountain every once in a while to make conservatives stop bitching.

Read the bill. 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:02 | 2571985 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

The real tax comes when health insurance premiums rise.

Bend the fuck over bitch

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:20 | 2572035 chet
chet's picture

They've been rising by double digits every year for 20 years.  Is that the system that I should be desperate to save from Obamacare?  

Since getting out of college I've been on about 8 different health plans with as many GP doctors.  None of them have a fucking clue who I am, including my current one.  Is that the system we must preserve?  The system that somehow represents grandmas and apple pies?

The current system gives me great freedom and choice.  Employer:  you will have this plan and pay $25 copays.  Me:  Okay.  Is that the "freedom" we must now throw ourselves on the battlements to save from Obama?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:55 | 2572114 Burr's 2nd Shot
Burr&#039;s 2nd Shot's picture

HORRIBLE NEWS FLASH:  NOBODY GIVES A FUCK ABOUT YOU

Real World News:  Prey Animals dismayed, but Predators don't really care if you live or die. Quick way to check which opinion matters?  Do your eyes face forward, or are they on the side of your head?  If they face forward, fuck you for being stupid.  If they are on the side of your head, hit me up on ZChat!  I will totally help you make sense of this and how to trade it.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 04:31 | 2572510 eastofthecosmos
eastofthecosmos's picture

i have.  What gives a "free"  country the legality to tax someone for not doing something?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 21:49 | 2571953 I am a Man I am...
I am a Man I am Forty's picture

I pay less than $1,200 a year, geez, quit going to the doctor so much, i've been to the doctor like twice in 41 years.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:00 | 2571971 lenitivelea
lenitivelea's picture

My apologies for my mother having end-stage pancreatic cancer. 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:03 | 2571990 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

My granmother died of liver cancer. The "cure?"

...ever increasing doses of opiates. Ending the fascist drug war would be more cost effective.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 23:48 | 2572244 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

It seems the cure to all of this healthcare nonsense is ending the pussification of Americans. Somehow etch it into the empty heads of the retard masses that, yes, you will die; it is inevitable. You DO NOT have the right to charge $2 million dollars to your fellow citizens to stay alive as a drugged out vegetable for an extra 6 months when terminally ill.

Orrrrrr, everyone needs to WAKE THE FUCK UP and realize the "money" is printed and/or digitally created. There is precisely zero reasons for the government to tax or charge for anything. Print the confetti up and party like it's the end of the fiat world.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 08:49 | 2572796 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

"My apologies for my mother having end-stage pancreatic cancer"

 

and we should all pay a share of her bills because...........?

 

(my mother died in hospice from a drug overdose administered by doctors)

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:21 | 2572038 geoffb
geoffb's picture

The penatly is between $695 and $2085 depending on income. I've seen estimates based on average income of around $1400. It only starts at $95 the first year.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 23:05 | 2572133 Catullus
Catullus's picture

It increased to $600 by the end of 2016.  Facts.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 09:11 | 2572895 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

That $95 is the minimum amount if you qualify. It is unlikely that most will qualify for that.

http://abcnews.go.com/blogs/politics/2012/06/health-care-law-mandate-tax...

BTW - It is the viewpoint of the right that this penalty (tax) for not having insurance is a way to eventually bankrupt insurance companies. Why have insurance when you can pay a lower tax (penalty), then just get insurance when you actually get sick. This will drive up costs insurance companies and premiums for others that have and keep health insurance. The purpose is to eventually drive everyone into a single payer system controlled by the government - more government power.

As I've posted elsewhere: "What would you do?"

A person had posted that they were in their 70s and they were grateful for the social programs of SS and medicare and they could not get buy without them as they have used those services and would be bankrupt without those government subsidies.

So I pose the question. Since social programs are unstable pyramids that bankrupt the society, what is better? To save 50 million and bankrupt society so that eventually 300 million lose everything? I certainly don't want to cut off the elderly and neither do politicians. But what would you do given that reality. I feel for the poster in their 70s and I'm glad they got the help they needed, but at what expense? What would you do if you were responsible for the well being of 300 million plus people? These costs enslave our current children and countless future generations - somethng socialist refuse to admit. They can't accept reality. They just want their health care now and have others pay for it.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 09:46 | 2573037 AustriAnnie
AustriAnnie's picture

The only people paying $95 will be people with low income.  These people, if they have kids, are probably already receiving more in tax credits than they are paying in.  The $95 will just slightly reduce the amount of their tax credits.  (So the $95 those people pay are actually being paid for by the rest of us.)

Everyone else (who actually earns income) will pay the higher penalty amount.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 21:03 | 2571811 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

the taxes have not even started ...

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:17 | 2572021 geoffb
geoffb's picture

This bill was written for and by the insurance lobby. You really think that they are going to voluntarily remove their 'hand from the till'? Really???  What part of the above sentence don't you understand? No snark here, I'm dead serious. I'm desparately trying to understand how anyone can be for this bill.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 04:35 | 2572513 eastofthecosmos
eastofthecosmos's picture

it may have been written by and for them but they don't see that the end goal is to put them out of business.  How do they think they will survive to be that Single Payer?  Even Obama has said that they won't get to that goal overnight.  What he didn't say is they want to by baby steps even though it was implied.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 09:23 | 2572952 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Think about it, I doubt the insurance companies want this bill for the long term as it is written.

What would you do or what do you think most would do that don't have insurance - pay a tax (penalty) or pay the premium which is usually higher for those that can't participate in group rates? Logically, I would assume most would pay the lower tax (penalty) and then only get insurance when they actually got really sick. And with no pre existing conditions allowed, the insurance companies can't deny coverage. I am not for the bill either but I highly doubt insurance companies or their lobby wrote the bill. Any gain they would have would be very short term. If anything, this bill will bankrupt them and force people into a government controlled insurance program.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 23:03 | 2572129 Catullus
Catullus's picture

Medicare and Medicaid are 60% of the health care industry's revenues.  You're welcome.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 09:27 | 2572967 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Revenues doesn't equal profitability or sustainability. BTW - those revenues are rates that go to providers (doctors and facilities), and they lose money on most of those. Insurance companies simply process paper work, I know I worked for BCBS for years. You're welcome.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:22 | 2571525 butchtrucks
butchtrucks's picture

Obamacare is an outragous attempt to foist a Soviet-style socialist health care system onto the American public.  Romney recognizes the fact that in this country good health should NOT be a birth-right - it is a PRIVILEGE - and a privilege that should only be available to those who are hardworking, wealthy, and smart enough to pay for their own insurance.

We should not try and emulate socialist hell-holes like Australia, Canada or Sweden where every dead-beat can access free public health systems regardless of whether they've saved up to pay for it or not.

This nation got to be great through people standing on their own two feet and taking responsibility for their own health and wellbeing. Not one dime of our taxes should go towards supporting socialized free health care for those too lazy, poor, old, disabled or stupid to look after themselves.

Romney’s pledge to abolish Obamacare is only a start.  He also needs to commit to ending all other existing socialist programs in this country including Medicare, VA, Medicaid and Social Security. These government-run programs are just pandering to people's laziness and lack of personal responsibility.

Medicare in particular is the worst socialist program ever introduced in this country (by another lefty Dem President - Lyndon Johnson in 1965). It's a single payer government run program funded from taxes paid by you and me - to support old sick people we don't even know!

Back in the '60s the GOP fought long and hard to prevent this communistic system becoming law. As Ronald Reagan said at the time the Dems were trying to force this thing through "If you and I don’t stop Medicare then one of these days we are going to spend our sunset years telling our children and our children’s children what it once was like in America when men were free.”

George HW Bush Described Medicare in 1964 as “socialized medicine at its worst” and. Same with Barry Goldwater who said: "Having given our pensioners their medical care in kind, why not food baskets, why not public housing accommodations, why not vacation resorts, why not a ration of cigarettes for those who smoke and of beer for those who drink.”

Social Security is another communist program that needs to be abolished right now. The U.S. Social Security program is the largest government program in the world and the single greatest expenditure in the federal budget, accounting for 20.8% of the total budget?!  And what is 'social security' ? It’s nothing but a program to take hard-earned money from the likes of you and me to allow lazy old people who didn't bother to save for their retirement during their working years to live high on the hog.

Nothing worse than creating programs like this which give lazy people a sense of entitlement.

So good on Romney for committing to the repeal of Obamacare.  Now I just hope he goes that necessary step further and commits to the unwinding the other socialist and communistical atrocities such as Social Security, Medicare, Medicade and VA - which are also totally unconstitutional and anti-American.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:34 | 2571548 _SILENCER
_SILENCER's picture

Romney's just as bad.  He just has a square chin and "distinguished gray" at the temples. Puppet. Maybe he won't be as smug, but I wouldn't trust that bag of dicks as far as I could throw a goddamned elephant.

Government is so far up in our shit I can feel them in my lower GI.

So....stop cooperating with them, the Whitecoats. We're trained and propagandized in popular cultrue to worship and marvel at MD's. I say fuck those motherfuckers, they don't give a rat's ass about you, me, Aunt Mathilda.

Don't vaccinate your kids.  Don't vaccinate your cats and dogs.  Don't eat their processed food (that monkeygrub, I might add is for the serfs...the ruling class doesn't eat that shit), drink the pasteurized juice and milk, use their fluoride toothpawste, eat the GMO corn, and above all don't drink the water or take the meds.  MD's are drug pushers, they'll never suggest a nutritional solution for a chronic malady. Thye want you in cancer centers, their clinics, their hospitals, their control.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:04 | 2571983 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Do watch TV or Hollywood's crap tough guy?   If you do, then you support it all 100%.   Untill people cancel their propaganda shit enmasse then you are a sheep/serf.  Don't tell me - I just watch Fox, because as long as you pay a cable TV or sat TV bill - you support em all because they divide up the bill. 

I hear this tough guy talk but when push comes to shove - the sheep/serfs want their HD O TV propaganda brainwashing,  You watch The Matrix then you support The Matrix.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 14:02 | 2573945 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

Cut off my cable service and got rid of my TV six years ago; one of the best decisions I've made.  It's also useful to dump some dollars for a bit of gold and silver for independent, personal commerce.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:59 | 2571633 Ceteris paribus
Ceteris paribus's picture

Just think paying 53 cents out of every Dollar goes to kill brown people, if that was not the case we all might have free health care. It is way more inportant to kill brown people than health care. Americans will always take the taxes , just like cows will always get in the truck to go to thier deaths.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:30 | 2571708 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Let them eat canned cat food.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:27 | 2571535 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Well, I am on Medicare now.  Although, they are taking Trillions from Medicare to fund this, which is disturbing.  But, I feel really sorry for all of the people that cannot make ends meet now.  How will they be able to afford this coverage.  Assuming they are not the ones on Welfare as they do not have to worry anyway.

Then you have the young and healthy people that buy catastrophic health Insurance.  With $10,000. deductible.  That will no longer be available.  Everyone will have to fit into a neat mold.  What about the people that are 50?  Will they pay the same premium as the people that are 25?  How is that fair.

Bottom line is that I feel sorry for those who cannot afford Health Care now that will have to be forking over premium dollars to the Insurance Companies before buying Food or paying their rent, out of fear that the IRS will come and get them.

 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:40 | 2571575 butchtrucks
butchtrucks's picture

Medicare is a socialist system paid for by MY taxes.  Who are you and why am I looking after you??

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:32 | 2571712 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

No, I don't think your taxes actually pay for it.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 14:03 | 2573954 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

On Sept 11, 2001 the US government had $5.8 trillion in debt and islamists controlled Afghanistan.

Today, about 11 years later, the US government has $15.8 trillion in debt, islamists have fought the US military to a draw in Iraq and Afghanistan, and islamists control most of North Africa.

The central government is failing, folks. Failing miserably.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:28 | 2571538 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

The only mandate should have been a single payer one. Everybody chips in, everybody covered. And thus you get the leeches from the insurance industry out, with their huge overhead costs in lawyers, publicity and people who deny coverage.

"To wit: "If a mandate was the solution, we could try that to solve homelessness by mandating everybody buy a house. The reason they don't have a house is they don't have the money." He is right."

Well, what do you do when you're sick and can't pay? Die? You can rent a house, there are even homeless shelters. But there's no free preventive care.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:45 | 2571587 Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

Right, Webster Tarpley was making the same point re medicare for all.

I do think the purpose of this is to cull the vast #s of newly retiring Boomers so they don't reap nearly as much as the previous generation.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:39 | 2571699 toady
toady's picture

The only reason they couldn't do single payer was the massive layoffs that would have happened when the insurance companies/middlemen shut down. Still, if it saved 14 or 15% of the 17% of annual GDP the middlemen cost... It might just be worth it!

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:33 | 2571719 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Takes balls to say that on ZH.

+1

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 14:06 | 2573959 F. Bastiat
F. Bastiat's picture

Getting the government out of health care altogether solves the pricing issue.  In "free markets", health care is 1/10th the price that it is here in the geographic area formerly known as the states united.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 17:57 | 2574820 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Like where?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:31 | 2571540 midgetrannyporn
midgetrannyporn's picture

imo a person should have the right to opt out of fascist insurance corporate hospital big pharma sick-care. If someone wants to use holistic or a damn witch doctor for that matter they should be able to do so without paying a damn fine to the irs. Personally I would rather be dead than fall into the medical establishment clutches.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:42 | 2571578 Steaming_Wookie_Doo
Steaming_Wookie_Doo's picture

I never knew I'd have so much in common with a Midget Tranny :)

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:45 | 2571586 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

Thousands per year do die after falling into the medical establishment clutches.

Old people beware: euthanasia

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:25 | 2571697 Tippoo Sultan
Tippoo Sultan's picture

+1, MTP.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 06:54 | 2572565 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

Every dying old person is good for at least $100,000 in charges for last minute emergency procedures.    (If they have good medical Insurance).

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 10:30 | 2573172 DC Exile
DC Exile's picture

As I understand it, certain religous groups were carved out exemptions from being forced to participate. For instance, the Amish were given an exemption after Sen. Chuck Schumer intervened. My question: how is this even begin to be Constitutional? Certain groups and classes of people given waivers and exemptions, while the rest of us are forced under penalty of law and IRS to pay up to the insurance cartels for a shitty product. If the Catholic bishops were on the ball, they would've followed the model of the Amish and carved out an exemption for the church so they wouldn't be compelled to perform abortions and handout birth control. Too late -- unless we convert to the Amish faith.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:34 | 2571551 technicalanarchy
technicalanarchy's picture

All your base are belong to us.

It's scary as Hell to me. I really fear this will make the insurance industry put regulations in the policies instead of congress passing a laws. No this, no that... ilIts in the name of cheaper healthcare troopers. No ice cream for YOU! No motorcycles are far to dangerous... whatever they want.

Went to the do tor the otherday, she was so busy writing down everything never even looked my wa, but the 5 minsshe was in there every word was charted.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:35 | 2571555 rats
rats's picture

Roberts is not Left or Right but big business, so he voted that way and just put the tax issue as a red herring.

Show goes on while rome is burning.

 

 

 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:36 | 2571558 mr_bad
mr_bad's picture

mandate....dictate....no difference.  

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:08 | 2572002 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

It's all fiat.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:38 | 2571571 interbanker
interbanker's picture

What Happen If you have insurance coverage by a foreing Country ? Or You bought Health insurance coverage in another country  ? Must you you buy US Obama Health Care or be subject to jail or tax ? or ? Garnishment of yuur bank accounts or Social Security Checks ? What Happens ?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:59 | 2571635 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

They already garnish your Social Security payments for Medicare.  It is not an option.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:42 | 2571581 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

If they really wanted National Health Care they should have raised Taxes on everyone and then given everyone free care.  Period.

Plus, they should have then Nationalized Health Care so that Private Insurance Companys do not rake Dollars off the top.  They could have also regulated what Doctors and Hospitals charge.

But, the way they did it was to bolster the Insurance Companies and Hospitals bottom line while costing everyone more Money with forced payments.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:26 | 2571698 Geruda
Geruda's picture

The thoughts you are speaking are having many truths.  Having a provider of care that is single is the wanting that the peoples who wanted a health caring package were having a wanting for but there were being too many stupids in congress who were having it be a law that would make insurance companies be having what they were wanting first.   More monies and no rules that would be making it harder for insurance companies and hospitals to be making as much monies as they could possibly be making.   Many stupids are believing that capitalism is the best way for helping all peoples when it is the reason so many peoples are having bad things happen to them by large powerful peoples who know how to make the people who are making the rules to be working for them and not for the peoples.  The blaming that should be happening is to blame the congress people who thought it was better to let a bad health caring bill be happening than a health caring bill that made better sensibleness.   So many stupids believed the stupids who were talking about death panels.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 21:00 | 2571799 butchtrucks
butchtrucks's picture

"The thoughts you are speaking are having many truths".

No they are not.  And another thing - why the fuck are you talking like Yoda?

 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 21:32 | 2571902 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

The weed when is smoked the thoughts make confused.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 23:19 | 2572182 CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

Canadian model works, somewhat, everyone covered, extended coverage for meds, dental, eye, from private insurance. There can be a wait for service, however that has more to do with needless visitis to emerg, and doctor's for mild/minor issues. Because its free lots of people go to emerg/clinic for runny nose..etc. There is a long list of basic treatments considered cosmetic, or classified as user-pay.

I have to say that it works for me, don't think the gubberment spends health care funds properly, lots & lots of waste and corruption within the admistration. However system worked when needed, my family of 6 averages 7-10 visits a year, usually stiches or x-rays. I have two conditions I manage with little assistance from "Professional" health care. Don't trust the 'Big Pharma' educated "professional" with my health. If I get something real bad....my timeline is up, I would not allow my family to go Bankrupt trying to "extend" my miserable sick exsistance.

Cc

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 06:58 | 2572570 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

That wont create hundreds billion a year in beurocracy and management expenses and profits and money for lobby representatives and campaign contributions...can't have that...

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:45 | 2571584 technicalanarchy
technicalanarchy's picture

All your base are belong to us. It's scary as Hell to me. I really fear this will make the insurance industry put regulations in the policies instead of congress passing a laws. No this, no that... ilIts in the name of cheaper healthcare troopers. No ice cream for YOU! No motorcycles are far to dangerous... whatever they want. Went to the do tor the otherday, she was so busy writing down everything never even looked my wa, but the 5 minsshe was in there every word was charted.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:46 | 2571589 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

 Everyone above a certain income level is REQUIRED to buy a house. Housing problem solved.

 Everyone above a certain income level is REQUIRED to buy a US made auto. Automobile industry saved.

Each employer is REQUIRED to hire any applicant referred by the Labor or welfare departments. Joblessness and welfare are fixed.

Everyone who eats is REQUIRED to buy selected foods at Walmart. Poor nutrition corrected.

Everyone is REQUIRED to exercise at an approved private gym. Obesity eliminated.

Every woman is REQUIRED to bear children or pay a penalty "tax". Population curve adjusted.

All the penalty "taxes" collected could help pay for more wars, more bankster bailouts, and more prisons for "tax" evaders.

 

 

 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:48 | 2571604 Pure Evil
Pure Evil's picture

I'm waiting for the time when I'm required to buy crack and hookers.

Of course, in my case, I don't really need a lot of incentive from the Feds.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 23:01 | 2572125 CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

Should have the world fixed in no time with that list.

Murray said it above...Live Free or Die trying!

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:50 | 2571607 sbenard
sbenard's picture

President Perfidious!

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:51 | 2571609 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Okay, I'm going to make the heads of some hypocrites spin here.

Let's compare "mandating" auto insurance be purchased, versus mandating health insurance being purchased. With auto insurance, no one is forcing you to drive. It isn't usually a life-or-death decision - i.e., not having auto insurance, and not driving, doesn't necessarily result in poor health, and/or death.

Now, lack of health insurance, on the other hand - that does necessarily result in poor health, and/or death. So, what do we do with folks such as myself - who have worked the better part of their adults lives, yet have zero in the way of health insurance to show for it? Let us wither on the vine and die?

And conservatives whined about "death panels" during the ACA debate.

If they want to see a "death panel", all they need to do is gather in one place, and gaze into a large mirror.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 19:58 | 2571631 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Lack of health insurance doesn't result in poor health. Living like a fucking moron results in poor health.

And I hate to be the one to break it to you, but you're not a Highlander, you are not immortal, you do not have inside you blood of kings. You will die, health insurance or not.

Live life to the fullest, and don't fear death. Live free or die trying.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:11 | 2571666 TN Jed
TN Jed's picture

I am shocked that equal rights don't produce equal outcomes!  Who's in charge of the trophies around here?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 21:34 | 2571910 hellas4life
hellas4life's picture

what if you're born with some disease or come down with something no matter how healthy you ate, how much you worked out, and how stress-free you lived.  it happens all the time. 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 21:48 | 2571950 fuu
fuu's picture

"it happens all the time."

 

Yes death is fairly common.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:00 | 2571969 TN Jed
TN Jed's picture

Then you pay out of your pocket to do what you can to help your child as my sister and her husband did for their daughter born with Mitochondrial Syndrome.  At least $100k flying her around the country talking to specialists on top of private healthcare.  Know what?  She still died.  Same result as a poor person.  Money or not, life happens.  If you can't afford that eventuality, monetarily or emotionally, then don't breed. 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 23:07 | 2572140 hellas4life
hellas4life's picture

I was responding to "living like a fucking moron results in poor health". Well no not always

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 00:23 | 2572230 TN Jed
TN Jed's picture

understood

tripe edited

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:58 | 2572110 CCanuck
CCanuck's picture

That's called Nature, happens all the time, in all species, nothing you, me, him, or Potus mandate can change.

Us humans spend way to much effort, resource, money..etc trying to "Fix" Natural events, we burden ourselves trying to make life comfortable for the "terminal cases", disabled, the born with defect..etc..etc

Everyone has a timeline, some shorter than others.

Cc

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:00 | 2571634 midgetrannyporn
midgetrannyporn's picture

car insurance is required to cover other people's cars/persons you might damage, not your own.

 

imo you have so many errors in this comment I really don't have the time or patience to address them all.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:01 | 2571642 TWSceptic
TWSceptic's picture

Health is not a right moron. It's something you work for yourself.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 21:35 | 2571913 hellas4life
hellas4life's picture

unless you don't win the birth lottery or some variation throughout life

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:06 | 2571656 Ceteris paribus
Ceteris paribus's picture

I have never been to see a doctor in my life , never been ill [good diet] so why should I pay for something I do not use . Side note I do not pay taxes so i will not be paying anyway, taxes are volentry. But do you see the point.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:09 | 2571663 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

So Medicare wasn't good enough or what?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:14 | 2571672 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

medicare resulted in unneeded medical treatments and tests..fee for service would never have done. so you think h care is expensive now..wait it will be expensive and unavailable with long waiting periods.

stay healthy my friends stay healthy..a one eyed man in the land of the blind

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:23 | 2571688 TN Jed
TN Jed's picture

Nothing operates in a vacuum. Kenysian economics are the root of inequality. Nothing you know is fair or natural.  Arguing finer points within a broken system is a fools game.

On a foolish errand I will say that if you OWN your vehicle you only have to pay liabilty auto insurance in case you cause damage to someone else. What you choose to cover on your vehicle is still up to the OWNER.  This begs the question now that you are born indebted to Obamacare, do you own yourself?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 21:32 | 2571901 technicalanarchy
technicalanarchy's picture

Auto insurance shouldn't be mandatory either. It worked, a lotta states passed it, now healthcare. What's the next step? There is a next step. This isn't the end all and be all of thier plan to save us from ourselves. Now they can mandate any damn thing they want. This was never about healthcare, it's about complete and total control. 

In my state they went after cigarettes real hard a couple of years ago, banned them in most public places, taxed them more and mandated putting carpet glue in the paper. 

So that went over so damn well, next up is food. Seriously they are going after food, food the government is going to save us from eating to much. 

Meds, meds, meds everybody is going to get some meds. Right now I need some meds!

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:33 | 2572067 rwe2late
rwe2late's picture

Tsar pointless

One may opt out of auto insurance by not owning a car. All privatization of public services reduces transparency, accountability, and public oversight by interposing a private and invariably opaque organization.

There is a difference between the government contracting with a private business, and the government requiring YOU and a private business to enter into a contract.

The former is supposed to result from a public mandate for the government to provide a public service. The latter implicitly supposes the public mandate is to create a captive market, a government protected oligopoly, for private businesses to profit from mandated individual customers.

To add insult, in the case of “healthcare“, the required “healthcare” purchase is not payment for medical care itself, but to a derivative industry that profits by limiting healthcare access.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:40 | 2572083 Burr's 2nd Shot
Burr&#039;s 2nd Shot's picture

Just to be clear, if I don't have homeowners insurance, my house is going to burn down?  Is that the idea?

As a result of the imminent immolation of my house, I need to pay money to protect your house from burning down?

And lets write it into law so that it can be enforced at the end of a barrel of a gun?

Awesome idea, Tsar.  Let me know how that works when the pendulum swings and tolerance for your unconventional views becomes unpopular.

Fri, 06/29/2012 - 01:26 | 2572360 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Now, lack of health insurance, on the other hand - that does necessarily result in poor health, and/or death.

That's where your logic jumped off the track of truth into the ditch of fear and fantasy.

If you believe health requires a doctor because you're too fucking stupid and / or lazy to take care of your health, well, we just discovered what the real problem is.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:08 | 2571660 overmedicatedun...
overmedicatedundersexed's picture

let see this is the supreme court that ruled: private property can be confiscated by the state and sold to someone who will pay higher taxes on it (kelo) or lying about war record is OK today and is free speach John Fn Kerry can relax now, so why not gov mandate on products you gotta buy.".tyranny "if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck perhaps it's a duck. 5 humans rule that 300 million will submit on bended knee..smells real bad , real bad.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 20:29 | 2571707 GlassSteagall
GlassSteagall's picture

If Obama is elected:

The "Golden Mandate" will require all Americans forfeit all non-jewelry gold and silver to "Strong Dollar will Save America"

The "Grow America Mandate" will require the majority of all IRA accounts be "invested' in America's "Thrive Bonds"

The "Student Freedom Mandate" will abrogate all student loans to make the "Great Step Forward"

The "Fair Tax Mandate" will finally be with us ... It is fair to tax all the rich making over $65,000

 

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