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OMB's Stockman: "We're At The Fiscal Endgame"

Tyler Durden's picture




 

To those on the hill and elsewhere who suggest this growing 'fiscal cliff' and 'debt ceiling' crisis will all get solved, former Office of Management and Budget (OMB) Director David Stockman tells Bloomberg TV that "they will punt, punt, punt and kick the can with partial solutions driven by eleventh hour crisis-based extensions that will go on for the whole of the next term!" When asked whether this economy will be mired in the doldrums, he rather ominously states "it will be worse, because we will be in recession" and notes that when the lame ducks re-look at the budget numbers with a realistic recession (instead of the current assumption of no recession within 12 years) it will be far worse and in a political environment where 'we cannot possibly raise taxes - and we cannot possibly cut spending'. With a 78% disapproval rating for the 'do nothing' Congress, Stockman is surprised that 16% somehow approve - approve of what? His warning is that unlike in past periods, today "we are completely paralyzed, there is an ideological divide on taxes and entitlement like we've never had before" and while he realizes that "the debt problem doesn't become a debt problem until the market suddenly have a wake up call and realize that if the Fed doesn't keep printing, it's game over."

 

"The fact that rates are so low is not a reflection of the US as a safe-haven but a bet on the Fed not allowing rates to rise."

 

"The perverse low-rate environment simply tells Congress that they can borrow a trillion dollars for 10 billion a year."

 

If rates rose then it would break this huge partisan stalemate we have today"

 

"There is a huge costs to stalemate!"

In a little under six minutes, David factually describes the certainly-not-priced-in dismal reality of the political situation we face in the next few months... must watch...

 

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Mon, 07/16/2012 - 13:52 | 2620926 mr. mirbach
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No one could have seen it coming...

 

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 13:55 | 2620942 JackT
JackT's picture

That's because this time it will be "different".

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 13:57 | 2620950 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

What..., they can only inflate their way out???

I'm SHOCKED!!!

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:27 | 2621082 CClarity
CClarity's picture

Stalemate means game over, restart a new game.  For the US and much of the western developed world, I think this will translate to new currencies (backed by something more tangible that our trust in God or bloated government), new governments (perhaps even some new monarchies, certainly some dictators, and some different republics, democracies, and federations), a few wars (at least), and some debt jubilees for some "lucky" ducks.  

None of this will happen without great strife, angry neighbors, and everyone thinking they've been wronged and it's unfair.

Unfortunately, banksters will still exist in some form or another, and while they will assist in flows of commerce, that will still be to their primary benefit, not the benefit of commerce participants.  

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:51 | 2621146 ZerOhead
ZerOhead's picture

New Game? How about NO Game.

In gold we trust

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 16:03 | 2621439 Precious
Precious's picture

Listening to the FED BOARD is like going to a CAR DEALER.  The first thing and only thing you hear is the sound of a lie.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 18:15 | 2622007 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

when you allocate billions to facebook and money movers instead of real productive capacity, you get economy with 7% unemployment even with QE1,2,3...

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 17:07 | 2621759 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

It's all a game.

Maybe gold is a better game, but I'm too stupid to argue that one way or the other.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:46 | 2621150 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

You can only kick the can so far down the road, before thhe worms start to fall out.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:31 | 2621095 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

And even that wont work, because how can you inflate your way out when everyones broke?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:55 | 2621186 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Shhhh. Don't let the Keynesians know that! We need someone holding the bad of worthless dollars. You know muppets?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 16:00 | 2621418 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

Everybody's just supposed to take advantage of the low rates and borrow more.  Of course, the rates aren't as low for the unwashed masses as they are for the banking class, but 'hey, still pretty low'.  Mortgage your future, sell your kids and grandkids down the river, get with the consumer program and do your bit to help us 'shop our way out of recession'.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 13:57 | 2620951 aerojet
aerojet's picture

whocouldaknowed?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:16 | 2621036 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture

lol pretty much anyone one thing you have to agree with Stockman on is this...

"The perverse low-rate environment simply tells Congress that they can borrow a trillion dollars for 10 billion a year."

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-L3oW25jOdAI/UALzqkuCDUI/AAAAAAAABGE/ngFw4PEHIkI/s400/Fed+printing.jpg

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 13:59 | 2620959 derek_vineyard
derek_vineyard's picture

japan 1989 to present has been my investing mantra --- read up on it......nekkei at 39k , etc

real rates of interest NO LONGER EXIST EVER IN THIS SYSTEM...get used to it, the system will last a few more decades

 

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:18 | 2621048 Yikes
Yikes's picture

This.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:35 | 2621105 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

Yes, but what I would like to know is if money printing will forever hold up stocks or if the S&P drops 80% from peak as the Nikkei has. 

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:43 | 2621138 SMG
SMG's picture

Yes.   That's the best answer I can come up with.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:18 | 2621260 Cloud9.5
Cloud9.5's picture

 

Japan is a homogenized culture with an interesting penchant for assuming responsibility for its failures to the point of personal destruction.  We on the other hand are a polyglot with a penchant for blaming the other fellow for our failures.   This is not the Great Depression generation.  There will be blood in the streets.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 16:25 | 2621579 OpenThePodBayDoorHAL
OpenThePodBayDoorHAL's picture

Between their fiscal policy and their immigration/demographic policy, Japan is committing national hari-kiri. Wouldn't be the first time they chose that honorable route...

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:28 | 2623027 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

yea, they need to freshen the line with a few million head-chopping mexicans

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 18:06 | 2621977 Lucius Corneliu...
Lucius Cornelius Sulla's picture

Na, I think the USA is made up of a bunch of grifters and marks who play the game as best they can, knowing it is mostly rigged.  Once the big game is over, most will pick up the pieces and move on.  Lets face it, most people in the USA have either a) came from much worse circumstances or b) don't expect any competence from government whatsoever.  America will bend, not break.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:08 | 2620998 brewing
brewing's picture

yea, like retail sales "unexpectedly" dropped in june...

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:09 | 2621002 HarryM
HarryM's picture

So they keep printing and printing and printing

We'll be old and gray and they'll still be printing -

You can walk around with your "The end is Near!" sign , but this game is not going to end, not for a long , long time

 

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:15 | 2621031 Quantitative_Ap...
Quantitative_Appeasing's picture

Really?

 

What happens when the USD loses reserve currency status?Not to mention the coming demographic crash in health care costs (which is right around the corner).

Curious to your thoughts on the above

 

 

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:45 | 2621135 Rusty Shorts
Rusty Shorts's picture

"What happens when the USD loses reserve currency status?"

Lmao, not going to happen slick!! The USD dollar is backed by BOMBS,...GREAT BIG BOMBS, bombs so big that they're bigger than B I G. Go ahead, google this "How to build a Thermonuclear Bomb in my Basement" There now, now you can have your very own "reserve currency" ...haahahaa.

 

Seriously though, google "The Three City States"

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:21 | 2621267 Quantitative_Ap...
Quantitative_Appeasing's picture

Uh yeah.  So what about those other countries with bombs - russia, china, england, france, india to name a few.

Somehow I think your "take our debt or we'll bomb you" is going to have a M.A.D. moment. At which point we are back to wheelbarrows.

Seriously, the USSR had a crapload of bombs and it did not stop their implosion, why should we be any different?

 

"American Exceptionalism" much?

 

 

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:32 | 2621305 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Yes World . . . ship us junk to fill our Walmarts . . . or we'll nuke you !

Sounds like quite a brilliant strategy.

And the Chinese waste their time reading Sun Tzu.

 

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 16:24 | 2621573 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

You don't understand....

It is about how countries price their oil on the open market, dollar only, please.... The US can tolerate a rogue Iran, but if Russia says nyet or the House of Saud falls, things will get very interesting for the dollar...

Again, the US don't care about ME oil as long as it is priced in dollars....

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:44 | 2621141 Jena
Jena's picture

Call it whatever you like but the curious thing about the new Federal Medicare Advisory Panel (MedPac) apparently has no medical doctors who will be making the decisions about what physicians will be allowed to charge for their care for Medicare patients.  There are JDs, Ph.Ds, M.S.s, M.A.s, M.P.P.s, M.P.S.s, M.P.A,s, but no actual medical doctors who have ever worked in the field and have knowledge of what it is like to run a practice.  (This is a departure from the previous and current practice of setting Medicare standard prices.)  

The anticipated result is that reimbursement fees for Medicare patients will drop considerably, which is why most doctors will be far less interested in taking them on as new patients and hospitals will be less inclined to accept them or keep them as in-patients unless they absolutely have to.

Bending the cost curve down one way or another...

http://video.foxbusiness.com/v/1737807437001/survey-american-companies-planning-fewer-hires/?playlist_id=87185

 

(Any GenXer who says "Yay" ponder this:  TPTB probably have something even worse in mind for you.)

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 16:59 | 2621721 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Yes and no.  The cramdowns have been occurring for quite a while...  it's certainly not a new trend...  there are also more clawbacks.

In the end, what it does is cause more state sponsored monopolies with existing providers, who leverage existing infrastructure to become more efficient at processing claims.  This means you have to see 150 patients in a day instead of 100, or whatever...  resulting in a decrease of quality of care.  It also causes really weird perversions in that highly specialized doctors (e.g. heart surgeons) end up becoming general surgeons because they can find areas to keep up high billing and have vastly less liability doing it.

Realistically, it's just another barrier to entry for small practitioners...  who don't have the infrastructure/capital to pay for the increased paperwork and billing requirements...  with the end result of herding the best professionals into private practice (who'll only see private insurance or self pay, depending on this option).  The people left at the large medical facilities will be scrubs...  people needing to gain experience and desperate to get a job.  Welcome 2 tier system.

Tue, 07/17/2012 - 00:06 | 2623130 Jena
Jena's picture

Exactly so.  This is another thing that people don't see coming.  What many expect as enhanced care will really be a huge waiting room filled with the sort of people they'd never consider themselves to be a part of.

It's going to be interesting.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:23 | 2621063 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I dont believe that at all, while everyone like you is sure the 'new norm' is just endless printing until 'we're all old and gray' you'll instead soon be whipsawed by a FED announcement one morning theyre tightening...the total chaos that ensues will be just what the FED needs and theyll just look at all you bankrupted suckers and say 'Hey, what did you think? We'd just keep printing forever? Youre all GULLIABLE FOOLS!'

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:12 | 2621243 crawldaddy
crawldaddy's picture

Nikkei was at 39k at 1990, its at 8k now, that is game over.  That is the road we are taking.  If DOW hits 4000, sure its not the end of the world, but it is GAME OVER

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:31 | 2621303 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

It's likely to end much sooner then one thinks but longer then those that have been crowing about it for years now. It's not something I would want to play musical chairs with.

It is interesting that Europe's problems are not being taken seriously as a sign of what is to come and Europe is just in the initial stages. Yes there are some differences but there are also things in common.

The big hoohaa is only just starting to be felt at the local level in the most worse managed places where we have bankruptcies at the city and county level. It will be interesting to see how at the federal level the government "manages" youth anger when they are forced into a lower standard of living and no SS.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:15 | 2621033 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

We're doing it to....errr ...for, FOR.. the children.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 16:16 | 2621519 JamesBond
JamesBond's picture

can't we just go back far enough using an Apple Time Capsule and reset the whole thing?  i'm sure there's a backup point inn time we can all agree upon....

 

jb

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 13:53 | 2620931 mrktwtch2
mrktwtch2's picture

trure but when does it end..??..they have been saying it for years..but the fed just keeps printing..

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 13:57 | 2620949 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

The instant you refuse to accept dollars for the payment of goods and services.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 17:14 | 2621144 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

"crack up boom"  

when people are dumping the fiat paper currency as quickly as possible, converting it into any physical good they can get their hands on, just to get out of the fiat, before it goes to zero.  - - - - This can happen very quickly, over a short period of time.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 13:54 | 2620935 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

When you have such a large portion sucking on the tit, it becomes impossible to make changes without pulling their mouth off. Politically impossible now that 50% suck that titty. It will be forced upon us

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:30 | 2621091 Bastiat
Bastiat's picture

500 million rounds of .40 cal ammo for DHS helps with the separation anxiety.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:56 | 2621190 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

Apparently they only plan on hitting "the target" about 30% of the time.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 17:06 | 2621752 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

That's actually interesting considering it coincides with the RAND NYD study of accuracy for cops shooting at people who didn't shoot back...  30%...

http://www.pointshooting.com/randinfo.htm

Also, the hit rate for fire fights is...  nil.

 

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:49 | 2621166 centerline
centerline's picture

More than 50% by far.  Enough pain and the majority will scream for anything and everything to be done (except reduce thier own take).  Pretty easy to see how screwed we are and how lots of folks are going to get clobbered.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 13:54 | 2620937 Larry Dallas
Larry Dallas's picture

Barton Biggs just died. Perhaps this is a sign for things to come?! Bwa hahaha!

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 13:54 | 2620938 Rich Bagg
Rich Bagg's picture

10 year yield is 1.44%.  Stockman is a fool. 

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 13:59 | 2620963 AC_Doctor
AC_Doctor's picture

Change name to Douche Bag asap...

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:41 | 2621130 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

He goes on to say the 'can kicking will continue for 4 more years'....I just dont pay any attention to peoples timelines, no one knows shit really.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:12 | 2621240 Liquid Courage
Liquid Courage's picture

Listen to wise philosopher Yogi Berra:

"It's hard to make predictions, especially about the future"
Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:35 | 2621321 kill switch
kill switch's picture

SheepDog,

 

 

He says four more years of kicking the fucking can?? Our toes are curled over the ledge now, how about 4 months and no election...with a major dose of reset....To what? who the fuck knows!! Scotty put up the fucking shields.

 

I have to admit, the word FUCK has it's therapeutic qualities. Me thinks

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:47 | 2621151 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

 

10 year yield is 1.44%.

Wouldn't it suck if that were as phony as the LIBOR?

And if it had been kept that way by one of the minion organizations that is now fragmenting under the strain?

Wouldn't it suck if everything changed in one afternoon?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:34 | 2621319 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

OK, I bit. The ten yr yield is based on LIBOR. Unfortunately, it will not change in one afternoon unless...

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 13:55 | 2620940 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Why are some benefits an entitlement when you have paid BIG taxes for 40-50 years of your life in order to draw benefits like SS or Medicare for 20 years tops!?

Congress stole all these people's SS tax surplus to wage war and conquer countries, to build weapons and to reward campaign contributors.

Congress are criminals, they stole old people's money and now claim that those old folks are leeches trying to draw entitlements. BULLSHIT! As my drill instructor used to say when you had an excuse for not performing.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:00 | 2620969 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

It's a perception game they like to play. Divide and conquer, so to speak. In this case, it's easy to turn the young against the old. Or the left against the right, or the ........ (fill in to suit)

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:21 | 2621054 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

And some people still can't figure out why TPTB have been "dumbing down" the US population for the past 40 years.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:24 | 2621071 Westcoastliberal
Westcoastliberal's picture

It pisses me off too, Jack.  I agree with the other responding poster; I think they do this to incite generational warfare.  They should all be locked in the stocks on the square and roundly whipped.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:22 | 2621134 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

they're now giving millions of ayn [   http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlas_Shrugged   ] rand's 'copy book',... 'atlas shrugged' to all colleges and university's. the future looks blight with misanthropy? the kids should be an easy tool to shape into a hammer and sickle. did some one say 'divide and conquer,... or TBTF's?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:28 | 2621088 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

Please, you are beclowning yourself. Congress clearly and openly taxed you and spent the money. Vietnam, AMTRAK,
a million things.

SS wasn't, isn't a investment scheme. No more then Obama/Romney care is about health. They are dressed up Tax justification for present spending for today. Tomorrow?
Devil take the hindmost.
So, stop mewing. It is unseemly in a serf.!

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:42 | 2621133 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

'Beclowning'...I like it!

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:26 | 2621289 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

"Please, you are beclowning yourself. Congress clearly and openly taxed you and spent the money. Vietnam, AMTRAK, a million things. SS wasn't, isn't a investment scheme. No more then Obama/Romney care is about health. They are dressed up Tax justification for present spending for today."

I agree that proper terminology for SS isnt really an 'investment' for 'retirement' - -

if you agree that 'tax' is really a term for 'armed theft'

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:48 | 2621159 Yikes
Yikes's picture

IIRC, when SS was established back in the 30's, the avergage life expectancy was right around the agreed to retirement age.

Get it?

SS was never designed or meant to "payout" in a macro economic sense.  This is and always was a tax on the American economy, sold as a "retirement fund".

 

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 17:37 | 2621853 SmackDaddy
SmackDaddy's picture

Wow, I've never thought about it like that before.  This thought is a game-changer for me....

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 17:39 | 2621861 SmackDaddy
SmackDaddy's picture

1937 U.S. Mortality

1937

men     58.0

women 62.4

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 17:41 | 2621873 SmackDaddy
SmackDaddy's picture

retirement age = 65. 

Statistically more likely to be dead than retired.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:18 | 2621228 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

Yep, they call them 'entitlements' because they are master liars.

People have been robbed through taxes, and by the devaluation of the currency caused by the Federal Reserve crime syndicate. That private institution owned by the banksters.

They'll probably start another war, and ask that everyone 'pull together' and 'sacrifice' for 'the troops'. People will be proud to take part in the 'austerity'.  Lots of speeches & flag waving. That'll shut up all the dummies and get 'em on board with the program.

Its been used many times, in many places. Why change a winning scam ?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:26 | 2621283 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Exactly.

 

The government now has a vested interest in people in these prepaid schemes to die before they ever utilize Obamacare, Medicare, and SS. With Obamacare the government can now let the people die, without any review, and scoop up their estates before the sick and elderly can try to spend their own remaining money to live.

Govco knows where all your money is. You will not be able to take it overseas for self treatment. And the doctors here will go to jail if they treat you against government orders. We are all trapped and it's a sickening. It's like the Hunger Games for real.

We are literally worth more dead than alive to the government and those sociopaths now choose who lives and dies.

 

 

 

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 17:42 | 2621872 Bennie Noakes
Bennie Noakes's picture

Congress are criminals, they stole old people's money and now claim that those old folks are leeches trying to draw entitlements.

So it is all the fault of politicians and the people who voted for these same politicians all these decades are entirely blameless? People have been pointing out the problems with SS and Medicare for decades now, but the boomers didn't want to hear it. They voted for those politicians year in and year out because they liked their promises of free money from Uncle Sam. And politicians who stood for fiscal responsibility (like Ron Paul) were cast aside.

You reap what you sow. And if you eat the seed crop, you should expect to go hungry. Blame the "criminal" politicians (that you elected) if it makes you feel any better.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 13:56 | 2620946 geewhiz190
geewhiz190's picture

and he's about as credible a source as we can get, unless there's something we haven't found out about yet

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 13:56 | 2620947 Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

So I should just wait here then ?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 13:57 | 2620954 Republi-Ken
Republi-Ken's picture

And remember that Stockman said "REPUBLICANS  BANKRUPTED  AMERICA"

DUH!

The "Father of Reaganomics" admitted that cutting taxes is NOT magic pixie dust...

..because REPUBLICANS TRIPLED the MOTHER FUCKING NATIONAL DEBT from 1981 to 1993.

DOUBLE DUH!!

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:04 | 2620983 gmrpeabody
gmrpeabody's picture

Twelve years..., and to think, Obama did it in only four.

Obama wins!

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:27 | 2621056 PulpCutter
PulpCutter's picture

removed

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:24 | 2621072 PulpCutter
PulpCutter's picture

Clinton handed Bush an economy that was BOOMING, and running surpluses.

Bush handed Obama an economy that was in a kamakazi dive.  The fact that we aren't a pile of flaming wreckage (yet) is to Obama's credit.

The economy crashed due to over-leveraged banks; why do the Republicans de-fund the WallSt regulatory agencies at every budget crunch?

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/06/05/cftc-sec-budget-idUSL1E8H5CUN2...

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:37 | 2621117 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

The Tech bubble had already popped and the economy was moving into recession before Bush even took office. Amazing how much people forget in 12 years.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:51 | 2621171 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Face it Pulp - we're all getting fucked by a giant double-dicked monster.  It's just that every so often it  changes which cock is sodomizing you between the red one or blue one.

Arguing about which cock you like being fucked with more indicates serious Stockholm Syndrome.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:09 | 2621236 ITrustMyGut
ITrustMyGut's picture

+1 exactly... red or blue cock is the only illusion...

politics are so passe~

it trivializes the issues when folk personalize the problems imho

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:25 | 2621279 alfred b.
alfred b.'s picture

 

   Under Clinton, Rubin and Summers, arch-enemies of gold, were selling and/or leasing gold from the US stash to 'help with' the budgets....it wasn't only England's Brown who was selling!

 

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:59 | 2621411 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

Right wingers can not stand even a little truth. Those clowns crack me up.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 20:36 | 2622385 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

You're thinking like a bankster = got credit and debit mixed up.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:32 | 2623045 Meremortal
Meremortal's picture

"Clinton handed Bush an economy that was BOOMING"

And what ALWAYS follows a BOOM?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:13 | 2621018 F22
F22's picture

Please justify your conclusions given these facts:

1.) Democrats controlled the house and senate in each of these years.

2.) FY1980 Debt 909.040 B USD  FY1983 1,371.320 B

3.) 1371.32/909.04=1.5085 or roughly a 51% increase.

It seems to me that Democrats increased the debt by 51% over that time frame.

 

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:18 | 2621259 CH1
CH1's picture

Take your Blue/Red and stick it.

Both of you.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 16:01 | 2621428 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

It's all the same people, son. They just hand it off to each other pretending it's democracy.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:37 | 2621114 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

You may want to check your congressional records and see who was in charge

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:12 | 2621196 Umh
Umh's picture

People are confused because the current administration doesn't enforce the laws as passed by congress.

 

Oops; neither did the last 6 or so; my bad. I do think the POTUS has carried selective enforcement to new extremes. Just as one example our imigration laws have needed an overhaul for at least 20 years; why don't we grant work visas or something rather than living a lie.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:58 | 2621197 gwar5
gwar5's picture

Bullshit. 

 

Reagan agreed to $3 in cuts for every $1 in tax raises. But the democrats lied. They controlled the House and Senate, and after they passed the tax hikes, they told him to fuck off on the spending cuts.

And Bush (George the lesser) was handed a recession by Clinton, a Tech bubble crash, 9-11,  and the repeal of Glass-Steagall pushed by Rubin who jumped right to Citi.

Clinton voted welfare reform 2-3 times before he had to pass it, facing a veto proof congress in the 1990's. But he was still kicking and screaming and vowing to reverse it. After it became so wildly successful, he claimed it, as he does to this day as his crowning acheivement. On Friday, Obama just gutted the bipartisan welfare reform bill signed by Clinton. The US will once again pay people to not work. 

Triple Duh.

Toldja So:  Obama is a communist. It is now confirmed he gets his great ideas to simulate the necronomy to death. (sic, not typos)

 

http://dailycaller.com/2012/07/15/obamas-influential-communist-mentor/

 

 

 

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:26 | 2621288 NotAMathWhiz
NotAMathWhiz's picture

Anytime anyone refers to either the republicans or the democratics as the cause for any or all problems I just become a bit more discouraged about the future of the country.  Just another person addicted to the kool-aid, convinced that there actually is a difference between the two.

All politicians are the same when they get there, all they're interested in is keeping the job, making the government larger so that more people will be indebted to them for their very existence.  Much easier to manipulate someone once you've got them by the balls.

See the above comment about 'divide and conquer' for additional information.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:00 | 2620964 Jlmadyson
Jlmadyson's picture

It's game over whether they print or not. It only extends the game if for only so long.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:02 | 2620976 MethodMan
MethodMan's picture

There's at least 10 more trillion petro-dollars baked in the government debt cake. The endgame will last longer than most can remain solvent. But when it ends.....

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:16 | 2621035 NEOSERF
NEOSERF's picture

The real question is whether the US ALWAYS looks like the best cow in the slaughter house because let's face it, if we start going down, everyone is going down...

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:02 | 2620977 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Pretty sure that there are no instructions for turning the printing press off.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:18 | 2621049 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Greenspan SuperGlued the switch in the 'On' position. The Bernank's just pretending he knows how to work it.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:02 | 2620978 sdmjake
sdmjake's picture

"...if the Fed doesn't keep printing, it's game over."

I beg to differ: if we don't take away the printing press, it is game over!

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:12 | 2621017 dmger14
dmger14's picture

True.  I think the context of his statement is when the market consensus realizes the fed needs to print or the system will collapse, interest rates will rise and that will put the fear in our leaders to actually do something drastic.  Unfortunately, the printing press is the path of least resistance and keeps the ponzi afloat the longest, albeit the most painful of our paths.  The sheeple have hardly felt the pain of deflation and won't stand for it.  So the printing presses will run flat out until the reset button is hit.  

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:23 | 2621068 sdmjake
sdmjake's picture

Exactly. Fed is stuck between a rock and a hard place. {aka: Print or Die}  Unfortunately, the longer we allow them to print the worse the eventual reset is gonna be. Its simply more of the can kicking nonsense...

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:13 | 2621019 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

Its over either way. There is no exit from this.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:45 | 2621121 i-dog
i-dog's picture

There is. States secede, declare odious federal debt, split military assets between them and put them up on eBay to drain the coffers of angry dictators elsewhere, each keep a few nukes on hand to discourage outside busybodies or vultures, reschedule all private debt onto sustainable terms, issue new currencies backed by state resources. Start again, but on a new no-deficit government paradigm with community subsistence support for those waiting to be employed.

Since everybody is concerned about the poor, everybody will be helping the poor. Won't they?

Since everybody is concerned about the sick, everybody will be helping the sick. Won't they?

Since everybody is concerned about creating employment, everybody will be helping entrepreneurs to create employment. Won't they?

Since everybody is concerned about roads, everybody will be assisting entrepreneurs to get roads built and/or repaired. Won't they?

For those who don't trust the private sector to be able to solve these problems, move to California - where they will, no doubt, create a paradise with 90% employed by the government and all living in luxury from selling oranges that picked themselves and computers that built themselves.

Problem solved!...with just a few wrinkles to be ironed out.

There are fewer than 1 billion people in the US and Europe. There are another 6 billion people elsewhere willing to buy what you can make, and sell you what you can't/won't make. Trade will go on...if the price is right.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:53 | 2621179 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

"There are another 6 billion people elsewhere willing to buy what you can make, and sell you what you can't/won't make. Trade will go on...if the price is right."

. . . and the money's sound.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:03 | 2621216 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Indeed. Cash bills only...redeemable in gold, tungsten, oil, cucumbers, or whatever other commodity is acceptable to the trading pair. "No tickee; no laundlee"!!

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:45 | 2621364 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Who downvoted sound money?

Ben, is that you?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:58 | 2621202 seek
seek's picture

Exactly. It's just plain "game over." Now they're just dicking around with the schedule.

 

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:47 | 2621153 Offthebeach
Offthebeach's picture

The print is the economy. What you think of as 'the economy's is a barbaric relic. We are the admin, financial center of the world and are adroitly finishing off Europe and China. We are the black whole of financial and monetary forces.
Until we have consumed all, everything like some fiscal Ebola on the body of the world.
This process is in its infancy.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:02 | 2620979 NEOSERF
NEOSERF's picture

The real question is this:  Without a bubble induced economy which created an above average GDP "growth rate", can there be ANY growth if we try even a little bit to live within our means ($500b annual deficits vs. the current $1.2T ones) given demographics and our debt level...personally I think this economy teeters on +1.0% and -1.0% with imbalances and malaligned investments pushing over these numbers once or twice a decade...if we truly enforce the regulations we have and pay for all social security, pension and SNAP committments, either we will have to run higher and higher deficits which will create higher interest rates and further choke the economy or we will try to be austere which of course will cause less demand, less profit, less taxes and higher deficits and a recession ...damned if you do or don't.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:04 | 2620984 ArkansasAngie
ArkansasAngie's picture

neither a Rpeublican nor Democrat be.

There is no way that this isn't going to be painful.  But ... by golly I surely would rather get it over with.  This can kicking has to stop.  They are stealing the only commodity that any of us really have ... time.

 

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:07 | 2620995 dmger14
dmger14's picture

It will end when the bond markets throw up.  In the short-term, everything is relative.  But there are limits, and when confidence begins to wane, the emigration from debt and the dollar will be quick and big.  I've underestimated the length of time this ponzi can be kept afloat but will be shocked if we make it through 2015 and wouldn't be surprised if the SHTF within a year.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:21 | 2621053 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Shadowstats long report says 2014/5 at the outside.

I personally think if Obama is re elected it will happen

early next year.Romney, and its later.Inevitiable now, whichever.

I am apolitical,but I for one will leave ASAP if Obama wins.

If you can still get out ,with or without your money

I've got a good friend in NZ,might give that a whirl.

Not my choice at my age,but what the hell.

Thats the true lesson of Atlas Shrugged ; you cannot fight evil from within

the system.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:19 | 2621154 poor fella
poor fella's picture

We'll have to.

"So we fight back, some of us. In small ways, because there aren't enough of you yet who'll risk the wrath of the machine. We fight back by overpaying our phone bill 73 cents a month, which costs the phone company about fifty dollars to trace the error and clear the records properly. We fight back by spindling, folding, and mutilating. And we often yell--"   Harlan Jay Ellison

The system is damn near self-sustaining with MNCs racing around the world trying to find a Jones to keep up with some other Jones for slave-made goods. Overseas profits and all that. As long as there's MSM's singing and dancing and sports - shit, who wants change? How come people that read ZH are considered 'doomers'?

There has to be a middle ground.

"Many, many good things have I bought!
Many, many bad things have I fought!"

GOD BLESS YOU, MR. ROSEWATER
by Kurt Vonnegut, Jr.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:24 | 2621278 dmger14
dmger14's picture

Yes, and Jim Rogers and Peter Schiff (I think it was Peter but there was a third person) have the same timeline as John Williams and it makes perfect sense to me.  I agree Romney would only buy us a little time and that is all. 

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:09 | 2620999 Herodotus
Herodotus's picture

At some point the Army will make their move and Congress, the President, and the Federal Reserve will no longer factor into the situation.

 

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:15 | 2621032 centerline
centerline's picture

I have always had that nagging thought in the back of my mind that this could in fact happen.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:17 | 2621040 NEOSERF
NEOSERF's picture

Auto cuts to Defense for 4 years will do it

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:39 | 2621122 Herodotus
Herodotus's picture

If Social Security recipients are to be paid, the Defense budget will need to be cut by 75%.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:57 | 2621193 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

The plan is to kill them off by denying services that they now are "entitled" to.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:56 | 2621189 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

Actually even that won't be enough.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:39 | 2621120 Liquid Courage
Liquid Courage's picture

Quote attributed to that dangerous radical Thomas Jefferson:

I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies.

So ... then ... both?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:49 | 2621164 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Be careful what you wish for.

The military only has one answer for every problem.

You may not like that answer one little bit.

 

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:12 | 2621015 orangedrinkandchips
orangedrinkandchips's picture

if the Fed doesn't keep printing, it's game over

 

NO SHIT SHERLOCK!

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:54 | 2621182 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

I vote for game over...

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:13 | 2621020 Zola
Zola's picture

wow. I thought Betty was smarter than this after having interviewed Rogers so many times !! I guess they really dont pick anchors based on their looks...

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:39 | 2621089 HardAssets
HardAssets's picture

My vote goes to Loren Lyster - - - smart and Hot

Hard to tell from the interview if Betty is dumb, or is just another press-titute trying to lower the impact of Stockman's blunt statements.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:12 | 2621230 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

Betty Liu is as dumb as a fucking brick.  Check out this interview with her and Bill Fleckenstein for irrefutible support:  http://www.zerohedge.com/article/bill-fleckenstein-versus-barton-biggs-q...

 Goddamn.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:14 | 2621026 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

If it weren't for the criminal fed the usa gubbermint wouldn't even have to pay the lousy $10B.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:19 | 2621263 Umh
Umh's picture

That would make it easier for people to see that they are being cheated. The FED just obfuscates the issues.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:14 | 2621027 web bot
web bot's picture

"The fact that rates are so low is not a reflection of the US as a safe-haven but a bet on the Fed not allowing rates to rise."

This statement is pure brilliance.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:42 | 2621131 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

It's a good bet, and what ZH gold folks are not grasping is that negative yields mean the debt is paying itself off.

There doesn't have to be printing if lenders pay you to borrow.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:49 | 2621168 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Yep. They can raise the debt while lowering interest payments for quite awhile longer. Banks don't hold mortgages they make money originating them so another round of refis is surely in the cards. Think like a maggot and the future becomes crystal clear.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:17 | 2621039 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

The 'market' doesnt ALREADY realize 'if the FED doesnt keep printing, its game over'? WTF so then markets are on a Sterno and crack binge basically, and completely out of their minds.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:27 | 2621046 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Four more years until the collapse. There won't be nothing left to collapse by then except for the last smoldering log that falls into the ashes.

Wait a minute. Just one minute. He is talking as if a country has something to do with policy. Businesses control the people bound by the atlantic and pacific with borders at Canada and Mexico. The joker had me for a second. It really depends on what corporation you are a part of and where you are at within that corporation not what country you are in.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:49 | 2621162 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

Yes, best to be working for Metacortex.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:24 | 2621047 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

She sure wanted him to get off the interest rates being low because the fed is buying bonds. He started talking about it and she kept trying to push past it." The government can keep doing this forever with the rates this low".

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:20 | 2621052 The worst trader
The worst trader's picture

But still no fear in the market? Keep moving nothing to see here................................

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:44 | 2621080 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

No I believe the 'fear' will appear again very suddenly 1 morning when all market trading and accounts are closed till further notice. And the Fed will just say, 'Hey whatever....you trusted us... so you obviously deserve to lose'.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:22 | 2621062 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Was the interviewer just a doll, pull the string on her back and out comes a Wall Street banker fable?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:48 | 2621158 Winston of Oceania
Winston of Oceania's picture

You might say she swallows, Keynes at least...

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:24 | 2621065 Zen Bernanke
Zen Bernanke's picture

will it effect my P&L this month or not?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:24 | 2621073 Random_Robert
Random_Robert's picture

Uh Oh.... Who let Reality step in front of a TV camera?

 

Watch your back, Stockman....  JFK, Ralph Hinckley, Vince Foster and all that, dontcha know...

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:34 | 2621102 EndGamed
EndGamed's picture

The market will go up till the election, Obama and the rest of the crooks own it.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:41 | 2621127 loveyajimbo
loveyajimbo's picture

Stockman would make a good VP... or any of several cabinet posts... Obama would make a good janitor in the Iranian embassy...

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 16:07 | 2621467 XitSam
XitSam's picture

I'm not sure Obama would make a good janitor. Not because he lacks the knowledge (easily taught), or that I disapprove of his political philosphy.  He doesn't have a track record of doing consistent, menial tasks. Remember how he compared his bowling to Special Olympics? He really sees himself as an elite. As a janitor, he would be constantly proposing ideas that the janitorial tasks should be "spread around", for example, everyone should take out their own trash.

Said as someone that has worked construction, done janitorial work, and been a dishwasher.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 16:29 | 2621597 RSloane
RSloane's picture

What do you personally have against the staff at the Iranian embassy. Why foist that clown on them?

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 23:02 | 2622934 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

Lolz we haven't had an embassy there since, what, 1980...

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:41 | 2621128 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

"it will all get solved'....how funny

punt punt punt....yep , no problem...

When your house is on fire one would do best to get out, her solution is to ask what Congress can do.

There is NO SOLUTION....just the ramifications. Position yourself well.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:43 | 2621137 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

After the election the next "kick of the can" is higher taxes.  And if that works reasonably well, they'll raise them again.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:44 | 2621140 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

everything will be fine.............nominally

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:47 | 2621156 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

The sleepy bimbo interviewing him clearly has no idea about how economics work.

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:55 | 2621185 world_debt_slave
world_debt_slave's picture

imho, the ability for women to vote and hold positions of leadership has been one of the reaons for the fall of this Republic. Women have a different outllok than men on the size and scope of government.

Just my .02

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 15:12 | 2621238 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

True. And the reason why we have 20% (the true figure for) unemployment. Too many women in the workforce, bumping men out of jobs. Or too few jobs remaining after the credit boom is over. A consequence of the distorted reality that fiat currency creates.

It will correct after "The Reset".

Mon, 07/16/2012 - 14:48 | 2621160 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

wow is she stupid...definitely a party line gal

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