This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

One Greek's Take On The Upcoming Referendum

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Perhaps the Greek referendum does have a chance to pass, if based on this one opinion from Nikos Konstandaras of Kathimerini

Six Bullets In The Barrel

After my initial despair at the announcement of the referendum -- a decision I consider frivolous, suspicious and dangerous -- I was overcome by a strange calm. I understood, as never before, that the Greeks do not feel alive if not flirting with death. I don't know if, in his simplistic political obsessions, George Papandreou felt this and therefore pushed the country into a game of Russian roulette. In any case, he put bullets in the revolver and handed it to the people.

In the land of “No,” of the eternal, automatic, storied “No,” the “No” which unites every special interest group and conflicting ideology, in the middle of the most difficult, the most brutal economic and social reforms ever attempted in our time, the person burdened with the responsibility of persuading the people as to the virtues of his policy confesses that he cannot carry this weight and passes it on to the citizens.

This is the first bullet in the gun's barrel: the leader's lack of conviction in himself and in the reform effort. The second bullet: If we judge by opinion polls, the great majority disagrees with the measures and does not approve of the government nor of the troika. The third bullet: All the opposition parties, which have been clamoring for elections, see their enemy losing direction; like sharks smelling blood, they have fallen upon him. They know that if the referendum is approved, they lose this contest and, furthermore, the prospect of early elections. Papandreou has challenged them to destroy him, and with him, Greece's future in the European Union and the reform effort. The fourth bullet: Many cadres of the ruling PASOK party are extremely critical of government policy -- either for reasons of their own political survival or out of personal bitterness -- and undermine the faith of even the most loyal party members. The fifth bullet: the widespread view that the policy is wrong and the government incapable of leading Greece out of the crisis, in which case, any change of government is to be desired.

If our time-wasting argument over whether we will accept the agreement which writes down our debt and provides new loans wrecks the effort to fortify the eurozone, and, in the end, the offer is withdrawn, then we will have the sixth bullet. This one will have our name on it. How many bullets does the gun take, so that we might know whether we have a chance of surviving? Only time will tell.

The situation is that dangerous. Our country appears to be sliding quickly toward a state of anarchy that could give birth to demons. Our dazed troupe of politicians persists with its outdated role-playing while the storm has torn down the theater and the crowd is howling for justice, blood, shelter, hope, direction. Demagogues, rascals, false prophets scream curses from TV and radio stations, glorying in their own psychoses, serving the interests of known and hidden masters. At the border between East and West, faced with the choice between isolation and Europe, one step away from losing all that we achieved and sinking into our worst selves, we seek excuses to abandon our rescue.

Maybe deep down this is what we wanted. Maybe we cannot tolerate a peaceful home. Now, once again, our worst enemy is ourself. And he is armed.

 


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:36 | Link to Comment ml8ml8
ml8ml8's picture

I predict a misfire.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:41 | Link to Comment Financial_Guard...
Financial_Guardian_Angel's picture

Not if you lubricate the barrel with some Grecian Formula!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:44 | Link to Comment I am more equal...
I am more equal than others's picture

No

This calls for something really obnoxious.  The Deathmobile!

Flounder, from Delta House - the Greeks - throw a huge Frat party (Toga... Toga.. Toga), get drunk and then turn the gun on the crowd promptly killing Europa.  That's ok, Bluto will fix it.  Start drinking - trust me - I'm in pre-Keynesian. 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:45 | Link to Comment Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture

 

 

The Greek People need to turn that revolver back on their pathetic leaders;

Just like the Icelanders did... 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:23 | Link to Comment vocational tainee
vocational tainee's picture

I would love to see that...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:27 | Link to Comment vocational tainee
vocational tainee's picture

I would love to see that...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:48 | Link to Comment The Chief
The Chief's picture

I fear that your prediction is likely to be realized. My fear is that the fix is in. If they can rig elections in the US with machinery/gameplans developed in Chicago, then what chance do the people of Greece have against these monsters?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:02 | Link to Comment DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

Everyone is missing the bigger picture.  Now with the a Greek referendum certain, Italian (PIIGs) bonds will go higher, thus the contagion will spread!

Greece referendum won't be on Un-ge-la's mind, when the need to backstop Italy is whispered in the Bundestag.

Greece default is old news.  Italy default is what worries Un-ge-la.  And the chances have now increased exponentially.  ECB will be buying US printing presses to meet demand.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:30 | Link to Comment TradingJoe
TradingJoe's picture

All printing presses are from Germany HEIDELBERGER DRUCK!!! :)))

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:02 | Link to Comment CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

There will be no Referendum. Banksters/NATO, operating thru a cabel of Greek Generals, will seize "control" of the country.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:21 | Link to Comment Cole Younger
Cole Younger's picture

Explain why anyone would seize the country. Greece has no resouces, no manufacturing, no anything of real value. It's major industry is tourism. It would make no sense whats so ever. The U.S. on the other hand is ripe for the seizing when we default. Problem with that is our private citizens have more guns and amunition than the entire world...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:27 | Link to Comment Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

Why seize the country?  It must be seized and sentenced to austerity forever as just punishment for the audacity of its citizens for saying "enough!" and, more importantly, as an object lesson to all other citizens to heed their masters' instructions (which come straight from the banks) that disobedience will not be tolerated.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:41 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

Greece would be the model for the new world order.  Perpetual indentured servitude.  So much debt you can never pay it off, you live like a pauper and can barely keep up on the interest payments.  Holes up and down each arm, being bled as quickly as possible.  Peak interest bloodflow.  But the beasts always hunger for more, after the Greeks are subdued they'll turn to the next country and force them to prostrate themselves.  Thank goodness Iceland is an out-of-the-way island that most people don't pay attention to.  That default shit just won't do.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:02 | Link to Comment Cole Younger
Cole Younger's picture

The EU did not have to accept Greece into its monetary union. Oh well, no one is going to seize crap as there isn't crap to seize...thats why they are in the position they are in....they have nothing...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:26 | Link to Comment Tompooz
Tompooz's picture

@Cole ""The U.S. on the other hand is ripe for the seizing when we default. Problem with that is our private citizens have more guns and amunition than the entire world..."

 

Guns, yes.., but ammunition..??  Supplies can easily be cut off and that (barring a lively black market) will be the end of the "seizing".

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 22:14 | Link to Comment Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Plenty of people with thousands of rounds stockpiled, not to mention primers, powder, reloading equipment, etc. Some expecting trouble stockpile silver and gold coins, others have more faith in less flashy metals.  Billions of rounds are sold annually in thousand round cases to individuals- the citizenry probably has at least as much ammuntion stashed as the government does.

Depepnds on where you live I guess, but in the south its probably more common then not to have at least a few hundred rounds and many people have a case or two of 5.56 for the AR or 7.62 for the AK- without even counting a couple hundred rounds for high powered scoped hunting rifles.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:42 | Link to Comment MS7
MS7's picture

Gold in Greece

http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/81d4ec44-a992-11e0-a04a-00144feabdc0.html...

Natural gas in Crete

http://www.greeknewsonline.com/?p=16884

Greece has onyx, marble, potential for agriculture (this dropped precipitously when it joined the EU). I'm no expert on resources but these were just off the top of my head.

It has tremendous strategic importance. 

Turkey for one would love some Greek territory.

I frankly see no reason why anyone would seize the ugly US. What does the US have? I don't want to mention the names of any states so as not to insult people but yuck. Who would want the US?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:00 | Link to Comment Dirt Rat
Dirt Rat's picture

True dat. You should take a very close look at our decaying, decrepit infrastructure-- our water delivery and sewage systems, our roads, bridges, everything. There's been no maintenance on these things for the last 30 years and they're really becoming unserviceable.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:33 | Link to Comment Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

How dare you!  We have Disney World.  

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:12 | Link to Comment SamAdams1234
SamAdams1234's picture

Germany needs a place to escape the winters in Berlin.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:51 | Link to Comment CClarity
CClarity's picture

Uh-oh!  Panos Beglitis,Greek defence minister, fired the armed forces chiefs of staff, after an unannounced meeting earlier today of the inner cabinet, which takes responsibility for defence decisions. No reason was given, writes the FT’s Kerin Hope in Athens.Panos Beglitis, Greek

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:06 | Link to Comment kloot
kloot's picture

or maybe it was just an illussion of roulette, and the weapon was wiped clean. he cost alot of ppl alot of money today.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:35 | Link to Comment RaymondKHessel
RaymondKHessel's picture

Got Gold

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:56 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

Nice little rebound this afternoon. SHTF hedging.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:25 | Link to Comment youngman
youngman's picture

Its funny but the only thing we are missing in this chess match is the gold and silver going to the moon....CDS´s are up...bond prices are maxed out...its really time for gold to hit $5,000 and silver $50 IMHO....then the picture has been painted..

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:53 | Link to Comment Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

This is not the event , gold and silver wil only go to the moon the day/week of the final collapse , they want all the gold for ultimate control and to re value for the new world paper.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:38 | Link to Comment Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

The fact that PMs and Oil held in spite of a -300pt day signals to me that serious inflation is knocking on the door.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:36 | Link to Comment johnnymustardseed
johnnymustardseed's picture

One wonders at the drama... just default and start over .... Iceland did and nobody died

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:45 | Link to Comment walküre
walküre's picture

Iceland is not a nation of tax cheats, socialists and nudists.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:57 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

Not true!  Rumor has it you can still find entire frozen nudist colonies beneath the Vatnajokull Glacier.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 23:18 | Link to Comment TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

The people of Iceland obviously take great pride in their grapefruit-sized balls.

 

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:10 | Link to Comment Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

I thought that nudist thing was started by Germans, isn't it true? Also I think that all that despised socialist movements started in Germany, it's bullshit also? At least I cannot call Germans tax cheaters, they are really hard working folks.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:25 | Link to Comment walküre
walküre's picture

Did Germans invent nudism? Possibly, they invented most everything else. Socialism is fine if you can afford it. Greece can't afford it. Germany cannot afford to drop socialism alltogether.

There are Germans working for less than 4 Euros per hour. I don't know how they can afford to live in Germany but they can. Germany has no legalized minimum wage - yet.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:44 | Link to Comment MS7
MS7's picture

Are they Germans working for less than minimum wage or mostly immigrants? Who would want a country with no minimum wage? That's sad.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:55 | Link to Comment Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

Four Euros, I would not get out of bed to piss for that.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:56 | Link to Comment Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

Don't be so arrogant man! 15 hundreds years ago you could not even face Romans in batlle field, your culture was nothing when Greeks were laying foundations for modern science and art. You were pushed by Slavic tribes and Mongols to  what you have now. Maybe, if you have some decency, you will acknowledge that wheel of history is still turning and talking about last 1 or 2 hundred years is nothing, you won't see it, but maybe in todays Germany in 3 hundred years history will see new Ottoman Empire or Islamic Republic in your territories. Is it possible?    

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 22:20 | Link to Comment Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Errrr....as point of reality, 15 hundred years ago Germans smashed the degenerate Roman Empire.  The Romans never did succeed in taking more then a rather small portion of German territory for any length of time, and after Varus they were afraid to try.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:15 | Link to Comment nwskii
nwskii's picture

Iceland? LOL Nobody cares about Iceland its not really even a country. Watch the dominos fall, it will be fun when Spain shits the bed

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:36 | Link to Comment unionbroker
unionbroker's picture

maybe it is just the Greeks thinking that if they are fucked why not make sure the rest of the world goes down with them.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:59 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

maybe it is just the Greeks thinking that if they are fucked why not make sure the multinational banking interests go down with them.

 

Fixed.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:28 | Link to Comment moneymutt
moneymutt's picture

crashing the money system, wiping out unpayable debts, starting a global jubilee is not fucking the world, its taking pain now to avoid never ending pain for 30 years.

Bailing out Greece is not about saving Greece, austerity paying debts will be extremely painful even with 50 percent haircuts.

Bailing out Greece is about making sure French and German bank investors do not lose all their money on bad loans. It protecting the banks.

So if you are a banker, then your world would end with a Greek default, for the rest of us, it would be a painful storm, but a passing one.

Iceland defaulted by not backing banks and devaluing currency for a while. Zimbabwe defaulted by printing money. Both countries are now doing pretty darn well, because no one has debt anymore. Jubilee, since biblical times, the only solution a debt that cant be paid, isnt paid.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 10:12 | Link to Comment AE911Truth
AE911Truth's picture

re: moneymutt: "the only solution a debt that cant be paid, isnt paid."

Or pay the debt with US Treasury issued interest free money.

result? No debt, no interest payments, and all the money we need.

Save your wealth in precious metals. Pay off debt with interest free money.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:28 | Link to Comment moneymutt
moneymutt's picture

crashing the money system, wiping out unpayable debts, starting a global jubilee is not fucking the world, its taking pain now to avoid never ending pain for 30 years.

Bailing out Greece is not about saving Greece, austerity paying debts will be extremely painful even with 50 percent haircuts.

Bailing out Greece is about making sure French and German bank investors do not lose all their money on bad loans. It protecting the banks.

So if you are a banker, then your world would end with a Greek default, for the rest of us, it would be a painful storm, but a passing one.

Iceland defaulted by not backing banks and devaluing currency for a while. Zimbabwe defaulted by printing money. Both countries are now doing pretty darn well, because no one has debt anymore. Jubilee, since biblical times, the only solution a debt that cant be paid, isnt paid.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:36 | Link to Comment mjk0259
mjk0259's picture

The enemy will be too busy stealing things to shoot.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:37 | Link to Comment qussl3
qussl3's picture

Just point the gun elsewhere idiot.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:38 | Link to Comment Timmay
Timmay's picture

The Banks want you to believe that freedom is scary. It's not.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:46 | Link to Comment AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

+1

The current system is far scarier when it comes to rascals and false prophets.  Make no mistake about it: the government does not care about your well being only the total annihilation of freedom and democracy and they will create hell before giving up that power.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:39 | Link to Comment Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

I figure the government would  kill us all before letting us go.    

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:39 | Link to Comment spinone
spinone's picture

Kabuki theater. Diversions. What's really going on?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:07 | Link to Comment CPL
CPL's picture

Think back to Turkey...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:15 | Link to Comment Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

Offhand I would say the real story is MF Global,  this Greece thing is just a distraction.

Most people know there is a problem with Greece, not many knew what MF global was doing.

 

MF Global accounts shock leaves clients scrambling  

Credit: Reuters/Brendan McDermid 

 

CHICAGO/NEW YORK | Tue Nov 1, 2011 4:42pm EDT

 

Commodity traders pointed to MF Global's turmoil and Greece's surprise referendum to explain why U.S. oil prices fell more than 2 percent.

 

"MF Global has caused the markets and all of their traders lots of heartburn," said Todd Horwitz, chief strategist at The Adam Mesh Trading Group.

CHICAGO/NEW YORK (Reuters) - MF Global Holdings Ltd failed to protect customer accounts by keeping them separate from its own funds, said a top U.S. exchange regulator, another shock for commodity markets scrambling to contain fallout from the brokerage's bankruptcy.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:42 | Link to Comment spekulatn
spekulatn's picture

I tend to agree with your assessment, Dapper Dan. Timing seems suspect.

 

 

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:39 | Link to Comment Mayer Amshel
Mayer Amshel's picture

...drama-backed drachma anyone?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:40 | Link to Comment luster
luster's picture

I was hoping Leo had raised his ugly head.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:40 | Link to Comment Niko nikad
Niko nikad's picture

Iceland had referendum, and they voted "No", and their economy went through the purgatory but Iceland recovered within a year. G-Pap says he hopes the Greeks would vote "Yes" but maybe he really hopes they would stick it to the banks, too, and vote against.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:41 | Link to Comment Reptil
Reptil's picture

call Diebold?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:42 | Link to Comment kito
kito's picture

long live democracy!!! power to the people!!!

 

at the end of the day, i say if a referendum does go off, the people will vote yes. the unknown is scarier than the known. they wont turn down the euro cheese

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:43 | Link to Comment MrBoompi
MrBoompi's picture

The "demons" have been in Greece for some time now.  How else would you describe people who hide debt ala Enron in order to gain admission to the EU and then turn around and borrow even more money?  How else would you describe the bankers who aided and abetted this scheme?

Maybe people don't want to have their sovereignty turned over to outsiders.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:34 | Link to Comment moneymutt
moneymutt's picture

Greece had a helathy VAT tax, but anybody rich, making good money, paid little to no taxes on the income. This would normally mean there would be no money for infrastructure, public safety, teachers, pensions etc...but the financial engineers said, hey look, you can all keep evading taxes because you can pay for all your govt services via debt. What more could a politician ask, no taxation but still function govt services and social safety, eveyrone, rich and poor is happy. The financial engineers are happy to make this bad loan, just like they were happy to lend to subprime warm bodies in US, because they figure, no matter how risky they lend, soveriegn govts/taxpayers will bail them out. Mostly they are right, time for them to be wrong.

Greece should default, and then starting taxing everyone, not just poor, and rebuild, only spending on govt services people are willing to be taxed for.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:31 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

Or get rid of the public services, and let private institutions provide them for a fee.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:47 | Link to Comment Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

And good riddance.  Governments offer a few public services and the next thing you know it thinks it owns you.  

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:43 | Link to Comment TonyV
TonyV's picture

Criticizing someone else is very easy. Coming up with a solution, not so much. Papandreu has already figured that out.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:44 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

I understood, as never before, that the Greeks do not feel alive if not flirting with death.

Nice.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:22 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

"Jackass, the Country"?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:44 | Link to Comment LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

It's cylinder man.   You put 6 in the cylinder.  But I understand... eventually we have the same fire to run through in America.  Because sometimes the fastest way around the fire is straight through it.
Fight for your rights and your future.
Good luck.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:45 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Greece needs to say an Icelandic NO to the EU.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:34 | Link to Comment kito
kito's picture

big difference. iceland had a bank problem that the people didnt create nor wish to bail out. the greeks have social structural problems that they did help create...will they bail themselves out?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:34 | Link to Comment Coke and Hookers
Coke and Hookers's picture

Not entirely correct. Any economy run on an massively overvalued currency for a decade and too low interest rates will self destruct. Greece is merely the first to go because they were the weakest to begin with but all the other in southern Europe will follow. If Greece had not joined the eurozone they would not have suffered fake prosperity through fake money and account deficits. They would be poor like they were supposed to be but they would not be slaves to the international financial system and the Brussels machine. The only structural problems the Greeks have encountered involve the Euro.

The Greeks need to stop expecting a fix that will never come without full descent into slavery and the total loss of sovereignty. They need to man up, kick the eurocrats out and take the hit. There's no other choice.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:55 | Link to Comment spekulatn
spekulatn's picture

Well put Coke and Hookers. The Greeks appear to have some leverage to negotiate better terms with their (unelected) EU overlords. I assume the Greeks want out of the EU.  Default and let the banks be stuck with the bill.

 

 

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:02 | Link to Comment kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

And the sun also rises...

Greece never belonged in the Euro.   This is the fallacy of equivocation, treating unequal things as equal.  Greece will be what it has long been, backward, broke..., and quite charming.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:46 | Link to Comment Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

I think that guy has already made his mind and he wants to be slave for decades, maybe not him, probably he won't be in as bad situation as 99% of Greeks. If they go drachmas and abandon Union I can bet that in 2 years all those outsourcerers will be crawling there like there is no tomorrow, building plants for everything you want. They did it with China, communist country, why not Greece.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:48 | Link to Comment SwingForce
SwingForce's picture

G-Pap is doing the right thing. Hopefully Greeks will will understand this EU plan as the KY Formula.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:50 | Link to Comment Gamma735
Gamma735's picture

So letting the people decide their own fate is wrong? Let the Greeks default.  Let the whole system of lies come down. 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:49 | Link to Comment Cluelesscitizen
Cluelesscitizen's picture

"..Our country appears to be sliding quickly toward a state of anarchy that could give birth to demons. Our dazed troupe of politicians persists with its outdated role-playing while the storm has torn down the theater and the crowd is howling for justice, blood, shelter, hope, direction. Demagogues, rascals, false prophets scream curses from TV and radio stations, glorying in their own psychoses, serving the interests of known and hidden masters.."

wow, flair for the theatre or not, you've got to admit that the crisis situation served a catalyst for major emotioanl vent here..

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:50 | Link to Comment topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Do the greek people really think if they repudiate the debt that they will all get to keep their pensions and jobs?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:54 | Link to Comment Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

What if they don't? Will they keep them?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:55 | Link to Comment Scisco
Scisco's picture

Possibly, but I suspect they know that if they do NOT repudiate the debt they will NOT keep their pensions and jobs.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:37 | Link to Comment moneymutt
moneymutt's picture

sums it up, either pain for 30 years, or pain for 2 years. Iceland and Argentina have proved default works.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:51 | Link to Comment NEOSERF
NEOSERF's picture

Those that are Greek leaders are also lawyers and therefor know well not to ask a question they did not already know the answer to.  Relief rally of 300 pts tomorrow

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:52 | Link to Comment Quantitative_Ap...
Quantitative_Appeasing's picture

What the hell happened to the land of Leonidas?

Greece, default is coming.  Go BIG or go home.....

 

The greeks need to remember the phrase "Molon Labe!" and give the banksters a chance to learn it as well.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:52 | Link to Comment Belarus
Belarus's picture

It seems like the way these things work is that people will vote with the "change you can believe in" party whom is smelling blood now. "Vote for the bailut," they'll tell the people. "It's our only hope. With it, the bailouts, we have a plan to energize and lift up the Greece economy like you could have never dreamed. Vote for us, "change you can believe in, it's gonna be way better this time--we promise."

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:54 | Link to Comment legal eagle
legal eagle's picture

The DREAM never dies, only the dreamer

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:54 | Link to Comment GOSPLAN HERO
GOSPLAN HERO's picture

He meant to say six bullets in cylinder, magazine or clip.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:54 | Link to Comment Whatta
Whatta's picture

Putting it in the hands of the people is certainly a good solution. Then the next round of politicians will not be the scapegoats for what comes next.

Let the people decide, let them live of die with their decision and let the markets decide how to play this out.

Criminy, G20 meeting to decide what to do about the downturn in the world economy...what social engineering furballs they will hock-up and force on the "free markets" of the world.

Let the People speak, and be heard.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:55 | Link to Comment Use of Weapons
Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:02 | Link to Comment bbq on whitehou...
bbq on whitehouse lawn's picture

In your darkest hour your soul will carry you, against your will. Strength is for doing things your soul advises against.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:13 | Link to Comment Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

My soul is perhaps darker or lighter than yours, I can't tell... Let's just say my willpower isn't in question; if people misunderstand the outcome of my using it, then we have a communication breakdown, not an ethical judgement, and certainly not an accurate one about my humanity. This includes blinding insights, feigning ignorance and sacrifices.

 

At this time/space, we're here on ZH. Interesting times gang is all watching.

 

11/11/11

 

 

Now we just need that poster, saying "Boring world we live in, nothing will happen"

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:34 | Link to Comment bbq on whitehou...
bbq on whitehouse lawn's picture

Do push-ups with and without mushrooms.  Without you get to 1-200 with you just get boared after 1-2hours.

One is fight (strength) the other is without fight.

What gives you better results.

The soul is not struggle its acceptance. You yield.

In your moment of darkness you yield and with that you recive strenght.

Your soul carries you against your will because your will is spent. Hence your darkest hour.

 

Said another way ignorance is strenght. The less you think the stronger you are.

Go fishing if you think im wrong.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:06 | Link to Comment Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

er . . . it takes you 1-2 hours of doing pushups on mushrooms to get bored?

You've got some serious focus there bbq.  =/

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:50 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

11/11/11 - Nigel Tufnel day?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:59 | Link to Comment Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Well...

 

5/11/11 is all about the Mask.

11/11/11 is all about the take down.

21/11/11 is all about the blow back.

 

 

Shit, I gave up a lot to make sure it was happening.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:10 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

21/11/11 is all about the blow back.

Does this year with (at least) 21 months in it come after the end of the Mayan calendar?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 02:18 | Link to Comment Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

We're not all American, darlin'

 

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:55 | Link to Comment Iriestx
Iriestx's picture

Bullets change governments far surer than votes.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:55 | Link to Comment bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

So....was that a yes, or no on the ref.? 

Otherwise it's just more talk

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:55 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Enough with the billshit fear program. There are no guaranties regarding your survival. Stand up and be counted as a Greek or a slave.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:55 | Link to Comment Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

Papi, papi, papi chulo

Papi papi papi ven a mi

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:14 | Link to Comment bbq on whitehou...
bbq on whitehouse lawn's picture

If you are going to die wouldn't you want a choice in how you die.

People are tribal, Red, blue, go team; what ever it is they feel the need to be apart of a team, as long as your team is better then the other teams its all good.

Europe hasn't gotten to that yet. Try again in 30years now is not the time, to much emotion in other states hurting yours. See WW1, 2 for details.

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:14 | Link to Comment CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

You are missing the point. Globalist centralization is only about empowering the powerful and enriching the rich. Everytime someone sneezes, everyone else gets penumonia. It is ultimately inefficient, and will fail now, 30 years from now, and forever. After the inevitable blow-up, there will be universal economic and political localization.   

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:40 | Link to Comment Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Everytime someone connected sneezes, everyone else gets Spanish Flu.

 

Fixed that for you.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:56 | Link to Comment Monkeyfister
Monkeyfister's picture

G-Pap is, at this very moment, calling 1-800-DIE-BOLD.

"It's not the votes that count, it's who counts the votes!" – Josef Stalin

 

http://media.damnfunnypictures.com/photos/sck8sy6-Diebold_Voting.jpg

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:51 | Link to Comment TradingJoe
TradingJoe's picture

Harascho!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 16:56 | Link to Comment Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

The aroma of a involuntary bank holiday stirs in the wind.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:23 | Link to Comment DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

And the first hints of Jubilee are being heard...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:09 | Link to Comment drivenZ
drivenZ's picture

who cares which way the vote goes...

how does this effect fundraising for the EFSF?...surely this is not confidence inspiring at all. What happens as we wait for a vote if there is one? This is going to weigh on Italian bonds the longer it gets drawn out.   

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:11 | Link to Comment bbq on whitehou...
bbq on whitehouse lawn's picture

"If the euro (project) fails there will be only gold."  - Another.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:39 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

"as we wait for a vote"

That's exactly the point of all of it: ... wait ... extend and pretend ... kick the can ... just one more month....

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:07 | Link to Comment Forgiven
Forgiven's picture

Somebody might want to clue the author into the fact that G-Pap has only loaded 5 rounds into a 30 round magazine.  It's not a revolver he plans on letting loose.  He's holding a submachinegun aimed at the entire EU baby!

   LEEROYYYYYY JENKINNNNNNNS!!!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:04 | Link to Comment Cone of Uncertainty
Cone of Uncertainty's picture

Demons bitches.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:05 | Link to Comment uno
uno's picture

don't forget Goldman Sachs 'helped' you get in this mess in the first place

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:06 | Link to Comment Rockfish
Rockfish's picture

Great entertaiment on CNBC right now LOL

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:09 | Link to Comment jharry
jharry's picture

Vote for Ron Paul.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:09 | Link to Comment sheeple2012
sheeple2012's picture

let me guess - it involves joey "grease monkey" terranova?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:26 | Link to Comment akak
akak's picture

You mean Eddie Munster, don't you?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:11 | Link to Comment bernorange
bernorange's picture

Anyone seen Spartacus lately?

www.pmbug.com

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:20 | Link to Comment devo
devo's picture

Any chance Papandreou is bluffing to get a bigger bailout?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:25 | Link to Comment melanie
melanie's picture

Financial crisis: Eurocrats are terrified of democracy
Greece’s prime minister George Papandreou is in the doghouse only because he dared to offer voters a choice.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/greece/8862796/Financia...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:27 | Link to Comment Bagbalm
Bagbalm's picture

How dare they let the people vote on anything that matters?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:31 | Link to Comment Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

Someone needs to teach the Greek people about "odious debt" and let them start pulling the trigger aimed at those that put them in this mess to begin with.

The banksters will get a big kick outta that one.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:38 | Link to Comment DaBernank
DaBernank's picture

b-b-but EUR is freegold...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:43 | Link to Comment Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

As far as Papandreou is concerned he needs an indemnity against "prosecution" by history. So he chooses to put the responsibility for the consequences (regardless of the referendum's results) on the people .

He is now attempting to wash his hands but it is too late. An ex high court judge of Greece has stated that the Papandreou should be prosecuted for electoral violations. In a nutshell the electoral laws provide that any statement or promise made by a ppolitician designed to influence the voters' decision, will be prosecuted where it can be shown that the statement was made with the knowledge that those promises or statements could not be fulfilled.

Papandreou promised wage and pension increases to all on the basis that the was plenty of money. It turns out that the Governor of the Bank of Greece as well as various European finance Ministers had briefed him to the contrary well in advance.

It also turns out that he in fact had consulted the IMF prior to the elections about putting Greece in its care.

The man is not a man. He is the living scummy offspring of his father who put Greece on the path to immorality and financial ruin.

The politicians of Greece have no defence against the accustaions against Greece as a government. the people however were weaned on governmental profligacy without knowledge of what was brewing.

Finally, a major part of the blame goes to European banks which were nudged by their own governments to extend credit to Greece without due diligence, just so Greece could continue to award multi billion contracts for infrastructure and other projects to European nations who also bribed Greek politicians only to significantly load up the final price to the detriment of Greece.

Greeks have a saying. He who urinates in the sea will get it back in his salt.

So pass the salt shaker around everyone.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:50 | Link to Comment rftag
rftag's picture

The referendum is strange.  Is it binding?  It appears to give a choice to angry people to let them vote directly to screw a bunch of bankers.

Where is the scam?  Someone check the voting machines for trojans.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:32 | Link to Comment MS7
MS7's picture

Greeks are afraid to get out of the euro zone, and the question (if they ever have a referendum, which they will not) would include that in it. It would ask whether people want to accept the deal or want to get out of the euro. The politicians have convinced them that going back to the drachma would be armageddon. 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:53 | Link to Comment dylan1
dylan1's picture

The EURO gives the greeks and the rest of the bankrupt countries the perfect moral hazard... the greek savers can and should now transfer all their EURO denominated wealth into German or American Banks (preferrably american or maybe even chinese), then vote to outright default and screw the rest of Europe...then when Greece ultimately defaults and re-instates the drachma, who cares!  Watch out for bankruns in greece next....Great timing G-PAP, now China will definately line up to buy EFSF Bonds going into the G20 Meetings.

 

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 17:59 | Link to Comment edmondantes
edmondantes's picture

I have no sympathy for Greece... they lied their way into the developed world... they never belonged there...they wasted their opportunity to make substantive change... living on arrogance and credit and pretence...

back to the Third World where you belong...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:14 | Link to Comment Elorant
Elorant's picture

The majority of countries in the Eurozone lied their way there. Greece's private sector loans (including banks, corporations and indiividuals) are the lowest in the developed world. In UK banks' debt is 300% of the GDP, where in Greece it is only 22%. Greek banks have the lowest leverage in the Eurozone. So get your facts straight before getting into stereotypes.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:58 | Link to Comment Crumbles
Crumbles's picture

And just who should give a shit if you have sympathy? Or not?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:00 | Link to Comment wawawiwaa
wawawiwaa's picture

Note to readers .. Iceland did not default... Its banks did.

 

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:09 | Link to Comment JR
JR's picture

This is a biased report.

Interesting that Konstandaras writes for Kathimerini, a part of The New York Times by a publishing partnership in Greece with the International Herald Tribune.

This is just the sort of establishment bias that powerful journalist Ingeborg Beugel cites in her article Anti-Greek Campaign of the International Media.  

Beugel, director of IKON TV (Dutch Public TV), writes thatthe propaganda of the mainstream media provides Europe and the Netherlands with a convenient scapegoat to exploit.” Here are some of her reflective comments – out of context:

Andreas Papandreou, father of the current prime minister, thought the economy would grow by pumping in money, increasing incomes and creating employment. So he began to borrow. but Greece was a member of the EEC. The extra income of the people went straight to consumer goods that were imported from abroad. The money borrowed from abroad flowed right back into those very same countries. Industry in Greece slowly faded. Companies went bankrupt. Northern Europe was stronger and better.

…All in all, Brussels and the European banks gave in to their own drive for profit maximization without any self-restraint, lending some 2,000 billion euros to Ireland, Belgium, Portugal and Spain — and to Greece, while everyone was fully aware that cronyism there still reigned supreme after entrance into the European Union, that the public sector was bursting at the seams, that the business climate was poor, that the political elite on the left and on the right was corrupt, that the rich engaged in mass tax evasion, that the institutions functioned poorly, and that European money was not being used well. If you do that for thirty years, without any checks or sanctions, can you still keep a straight face while blaming the Greeks alone for their mismanagement?

…As long as the Greek economy kept growing at a remarkable 4-5 percent rate, thanks to the tourism and shipping industries (in which the Greek ship owners are considered the absolute world leaders) nothing could go wrong. The structural instability caused by excessive borrowing remained invisible until the crisis of 2008 did hit Europe, but left Greece untouched for the moment… In 2009, the global shipping industry collapsed as a result of the global crisis. Tourism decreased dramatically. In the spring of 2009, European Commissioner Almunia warned repeatedly that things would go wrong for Greece. Nobody did anything.

… Only in the autumn of 2009, after the “confession” and “Mea Culpa” on the Greek deficit by prime minister Giorgos Papandreou in Brussels, right at the moment when the global crisis was starting to be felt in Greece, did the full extent of the country’s problems emerge. Ever since, the propaganda machine has been running at full speed…. Papandreou did not even get time to sort things out. No, Greece should immediately display good behavior. Speculators smelled blood. They openly started betting on a Greek default.  

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:52 | Link to Comment zuuuueri
zuuuueri's picture

spot on.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:32 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

"The situation is that dangerous....
sliding quickly toward a state of anarchy....
could give birth to demons....
dazed troupe of politicians ... outdated role-playing....
the crowd is howling for .... direction....
false prophets scream curses from TV and radio stations....
faced with the choice between isolation and Europe....
one step away from losing all that we achieved
we seek excuses to abandon our rescue....
Maybe we cannot tolerate a peaceful home...."

0/10 !!!!

What a load of carefully crafted shite propaganda!!! Masterful steering of the masses' referendum vote towards the peaceful, rescuing, modern, comforting arms of perpetual debt slavery ... err, European central planners!!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:45 | Link to Comment Coke and Hookers
Coke and Hookers's picture

Correct. This is a shitty, fear-mongering, globalist propaganda piece.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:05 | Link to Comment Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

ZH is a playa now. It will get its fair share of propaganda.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fxKBCLPP20s

 

 

[Hint: You need to know the references involved]

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 00:23 | Link to Comment i-dog
i-dog's picture

[edit: first part deleted, upon reflection]

PS. I'm on a [patchy] 3G wireless internet connection, so I rarely click on UToob links. (Cute as they might be, I wish you'd stop posting them and make simple statements instead. Just sayin'...).

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:26 | Link to Comment MS7
MS7's picture

Greeks' weakness-- they want to be part of Europe, as if Europe is some kind of special club. Europe is dull, the euro is 1,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000.01 times duller than the cool drachma. Who would have given up the drachma willingly in the first place? If they have that weakness, that they think they're part of some special exclusive club by being in Europe, then the Europeans can do anything they want to Greece.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 18:43 | Link to Comment Hedge Fund of One
Hedge Fund of One's picture

Give G-Pap a break! He's doing the right thing. Isn't there precedent for this is the Iceland referendum? He may be confident with his agreement with Merkozy, but it makes sense to be sure that the folks are with him. If not, then he gets to go home and let someone else deal with the headaches. He didn't cause this problem - was just voted into office in 2009. 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:34 | Link to Comment zuuuueri
zuuuueri's picture

Folks, kathimerini was a bought and owned tool of PASOK since the 80s. In recent years it has become a sort of franchise in the NYT-IHT global media machine, just one more globalist propaganda channel. Of course kathimerini is going to try to convince people to vote for more bailouts, more EU, more EZ, more IMF, more of the same shit! of course they will picture it as the only possible path!

 

don't be distracted by these guys!

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:15 | Link to Comment Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

The people want to default, pure and simple.  The rest of Europe doesn't want a default, and the leader is in the middle.  G-Pap did this in order to make himself look good by saying you vote for the referendum and say default we will default.  He wants the people to decide for him, because he knows that the austerity is bad.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 22:44 | Link to Comment Shvanztanz
Shvanztanz's picture

Go G-PAP, put it back to the people! Fuck yeah!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 22:45 | Link to Comment eurusdog
eurusdog's picture

Theone important factor that everyone is forgetting is the aftermath:

A rigged vote and fires burns the whole of Greece as the people are willing to do it and they know when they have been taken.

A real vote in support only delays the inevitable default by a few months as Greek bonds continue to rocket higher and higher.

A no vote and the rest of the Euro zone gets burned by the hot potato that is the joint currency. France fails, dh dah dah Germany declares war to hold the whole pile togehter.

It's over, whether the vote is up, down, rigged, blown, sucked, swallowed, spit, whatever, it's time for the Eurozine to drop their date off and go home to bed.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 22:49 | Link to Comment RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

If I recall correctly, democracy is all about handing power over to the people.  It's when democratic countries become bankster cabal dictatorships that the bullets start to fly.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 22:57 | Link to Comment EZYJET PILOT
EZYJET PILOT's picture

I can't believe this article is on Zerohedge. Its in total contrast to what most of us here advocate.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!