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One Man's Melting Ice Cap, Is Another Man's 40% Transit-Time Boost

Tyler Durden's picture


"The numbers are coming in and we are looking at them with a sense of amazement," is how the director of the Snow and Ice data center in Colorado describes the 'startlingly rapid rate' of melting at the Arctic Ice Cap this year. As Agence France Presse notes, if the melt stopped today, this would be the third lowest level of ice on record. Of course while this maybe terrible news for some; others are 'increasingly interested'. The thaw in the Arctic is rapidly transforming the geopolitics of the region, with the long-forbidding ocean looking more attractive to the shipping and energy industries.


The first ship from China – the Xuelong, or Snow Dragon – recently sailed from the Pacific to the Atlantic via the Arctic Ocean, cutting the distance by more than 40%. Five nations surround the Arctic Ocean – Russia, which has about half of the coastline, along with Canada, Denmark, Norway and the United States – but the route could see a growing number of commercial players.


Of course this 'benefit' of global warming appears to rely on the fact that there are people left to trade goods with.


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Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:29 | 2734977 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

clearly this is the work of manbearpig

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:23 | 2735244 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

Runaway global warming, bitchez!

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 21:33 | 2736025 Slack Jack
Slack Jack's picture

When the ice melts, sea levels will RISE by 80 meters (263 feet).

To see that this is true;

Let's calculate the sea-level rise due to just the Antarctic ice sheet melting.

From we gleam the following facts;

Area of ice-covered Antarctica = 13,720,000 sq km (5,300,000 sq mi)

Average depth of ice = 1.6  km (1.0 mi)

This implies a volume of ice = 13,720,000 * 1.6 = 21,952,000 km3

From we have;

The area covered by the ocean = 361,000,000 km2

Thus if the Antarctic ice sheet were to melt the sea-level would rise by

21952000/361000000 = 0.06081 km = 60.81 meters.

Now add in the other ice sheets and glaciers and you get a rise of about 80 meters.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 22:12 | 2736085 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

not bullish for most oceanfront real estate.  but "glean".

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 22:53 | 2736112 Slack Jack
Slack Jack's picture

Thanks, I'll change that. Oops,... doesn't seem I can.

NOT BULLISH for Manhattan properties.

The first ice-sheet to go will be Greenland's.

It will add about 6 meters (20 feet) to sea-levels,...

adding a decorative pool to Manhattan's skyscrapers.

Manhattan property,... a long term sell.

London property,... a long term sell.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 00:14 | 2736260 Freddie
Freddie's picture

BS.  I have lived on the water, just off the ocean, for almost 15 years.  Water in back and that far away in front.  Water all around.

No change. If anything, low tide appears slighltly lower when there is a new moon (lowest tides).  Keep up with the GW fantasy.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 00:50 | 2736295 Muppet of the U...
Muppet of the Universe's picture

You know what astounds me?  That people forget the ice is less dense than water...  So if all the ice caps melt, the ice transformed into water will take less space than the ice originally held!!!!

O SHIT, looks like hope for rising sea levels is dashed somewhat.  But looks bullish for fresh water...  O SHIT WE ALL GONNA DIE.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 01:56 | 2736340 Slack Jack
Slack Jack's picture

"BS. I have lived on the water, just off the ocean, for almost 15 years.... No change."

Guess you don't live in California then.

"In the 20th century, the sea level rose on average 8 inches along California's coastline, research by Climate Central and others shows. Middle-of-the-road expectations are that it will rise 6 to 8 more inches by 2030, 12 inches by 2050 and 24 inches by 2070. By 2100, it could be 3 to 5 feet higher, said Gary Griggs, director of the Institute of Marine Sciences at UC Santa Cruz."

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 06:51 | 2736513 Element
Element's picture

Have you heard of geotectonics?  The earth's crust actually rises and falls you know?  It's laughable that in places in the SW Pacific Islands, (all are volcanic in origin BTW), all sitting a-top fast-moving (in geological terms) major geotectonic crustal and structural discontinuities, called 'plate-margins' (in this case 'subduction zones'), where the sea may keep coming up, or else will go out further, each year, due to regional crustal warping, and resulting sinking and rising - within living memory. 

There is the secular NET regional movements (up or down), often several mm or cm every year, and then there there are major transient tectonic movements from earthquake shocks ocurring within the secular movement, which may rise or fall by several meters, within seconds.  It would be utterly rediculous to claim one of these was from sea level rises, but not the other ... and yet that is precisely what these GreenPeace idiots and IPCC jerk-offs keep merely pretending is true!

It's insane!

So these greenie dumbfucks just keep asserting that this trend is "sea level rise", when they know perfectly well that the geologists have shown in tremendous detail that it's just prosaic regional geodynamics, doing what it has always done in that region (they know this because we have been telling them, so they know perfectly well that they are lying when they claim this shit).

This is why greenies are complete fucking retards, and never to be listened to or accepted on face value.  For one thing, they can't even work out that a long-term sea level rise would be expressed globally, rather than as a localised rise.


So whenever some fucking greenie jerk-off, or rather more likely, a knowing deliberative liar tries to claim a LOCAL sea level rise is occurring, just look at the geodetics to debunk their crap.  

But by then the media idiots will have lapped it all up, also knowing already that its irrational and illogical bullshit--but what do they care?  They just want to sell advertisement-space and if fear-mongering works better for doing that then the MSM's 'News' producers will happily sell fear and lies, rather than prosaic facts and truth (which pays rather badly, in comparison to fear and lies).

These people, these MSM, these 'greens' fundamentally don't give a rats arse about science. They are only interested in a shallow manufactured mystique and a facade of a pseudo-science, to the extent that they can pervert it to their desired warped ideological ends.

They are not the slightest bit interested in either truth, or in "saving the planet".  These gratuitous fools and parasites are after one thing only, political power so that they can dictate to others, and to raid and pilfer the purse of the taxpayer, while they set about to systematically destroy all employment and business, while growing govt.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 08:40 | 2736559 Slack Jack
Slack Jack's picture

Data from the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, tells us that;

The last 16 years include the 15 HOTTEST years on record.

Including 2011 with their data tells us that the last 17 years include the 16 HOTTEST years on record.

And in a few months this will be;

the last 18 years include the 17 HOTTEST years on record.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 09:02 | 2736605 i-dog
i-dog's picture

You seem worried! Is the Earth going to explode in the next few years? Does this mean we are all going to spontaneously combust before El Niño returns?

BTW, according to Al Gore and his Oscar-winning movie, weren't the Maldives and some Pacific islands supposed to be evacuated and underwater by now? The 'inconvenient truth' is that they seem to be just the same as they were back then.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 22:26 | 2742595 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

You're forgetting 2 very key points:

#1 sea level will rise EVERYWERE whereas landmass will rise only in SPECIFIC spots from volcanic activity

#2 highly unstable areas where land rises meters in seconds tends not to be where people are living. Some do, it's true, but not too many. It is very dangerous.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 01:58 | 2736345 Slack Jack
Slack Jack's picture

"You know what astounds me? That people forget the ice is less dense than water...  So if all the ice caps melt, the ice transformed into water will take less space than the ice originally held!!!!"

Not to call you stupid, but don't you know that almost all of the ice-sheets are bedded on rock.

So, even though water takes up less space than the ice, this fact is irrelevant.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 05:35 | 2736499 Element
Element's picture

Tylers, no need to freak out:


Financial Sense NewsHour

Global Warming: Fact, Fiction or Conspiracy?

Audio interview:


I'm just going to post this every time this topic comes up.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 22:23 | 2742592 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

jesus Freddie you can't fool us.

I already know you're soaking up the excess rising water with your snorg-tee collection.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 03:56 | 2736432 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Bullish for some non-oceanfornt properties.

Bye bye Washington DC. Feel free to cheer among yourselves.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:29 | 2734979 The Wizard of Oz
The Wizard of Oz's picture


Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:30 | 2734982 FOC 1183
FOC 1183's picture

100 years of records vs. 4.5 billion years of reality

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:39 | 2735037 nevadan
nevadan's picture

What?  2.2x10^-8 is too small a sample size to be statistically valid?

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:44 | 2735322 Tarheel
Tarheel's picture

very nice!

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:40 | 2735041 malikai
malikai's picture

Yup. I wonder what the poles looked like during the Cretaceus period.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:12 | 2735162 easypoints
easypoints's picture

True. But we weren't trying to feed an exponentially growing population back then. If the temperature and rainfall changes over a few decades, you have to drastically change where you grow your food to expand your output, or use less of it. If the sea level changes a few inches in a century when most of the population lives near the ocean, you have even bigger problems.

That is what this article is implying. Whether or not the earth has had drastic climate changes is not worth debating; it obviously has.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:13 | 2735197 tmosley
tmosley's picture

If you really want to feed an exponentially growing population, then you should want a warmer world, where the vast Canadian tundra becomes an extnsion of the US midwestern grain belt.

40% less fuel for a good number of trade routes would help too.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:30 | 2735229 easypoints
easypoints's picture

There may be some positives as vast new areas become farmable, but they would take time to develop. I mainly just want to point out that our agricultural system is fragile and that trends always foreshadow supply interruptions, and should be taken seriously. A couple bad seasons in a row, along with monetary inflation, would start a global riot.



Fri, 08/24/2012 - 18:17 | 2735604 mudduck
mudduck's picture

Don't worry. It's covered, just gotta put a couple of cock roach genes into the corn and wheat DNA and voila' you can't kill the stuff.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 22:18 | 2736094 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

re exponentially growing population: maybe only for a bit.  population growth is below replacement throughout the developed world and, as women worldwide become better educated and more self sufficient economically, growth rates will likely drop elsewhere.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:28 | 2735269 linrom
linrom's picture

Linear thinking buffoon as usual. Hey, what about all countries below Canada.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 17:36 | 2735479 Nels
Nels's picture

Not linear, but historical.  In previous warmings (Roman & Medieval Optimums), the tropics stayed at 80 degrees, while the higher lattitudes warmed up.  Since the temperatuire gradient going North was reduced, there were fewer severe storms.  It was better weather for all.

The countries below Canada will be just fine, buffoon.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:31 | 2735279 nevadan
nevadan's picture

Yup. I wonder what the poles looked like during the Cretaceus period.


Or nearly any period for that matter.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:53 | 2735360 knukles
knukles's picture

The Poles looked very similar to their other Central European brethren.  But with larger muscles and smaller cranial capacity.  The latter (cranial capacity) very reminiscent of that displayed by the New Euro Governing Brotherhood which in fact has been proven by simple behavioral comparisons. 
Now, what has changed immeasurably has been the Italian female which has progressed from hairy, brutish and stinky into that exemplified by the chickadee in the Fiat 500 Abarth ads.

Va Va Voom!

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 18:20 | 2735615 mudduck
mudduck's picture

Most of the Poles I've met are very nice people.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 18:43 | 2735682 nevadan
nevadan's picture

Poles with a notable cranial output include Copernicus, Madame Curie, F Chopin....

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 21:47 | 2736045 Slack Jack
Slack Jack's picture

Here is a graphic showing temperature (centigrade) versus carbon dioxide concentration (ppm) at Vostok (Antarctica) over the last 420,000 years.

This gives some accurate temperatures for the last 420,000 years.

Hmmmm,... anyone think there is a correlation between carbon dioxide concentration and temperature?

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 23:49 | 2736229 nevadan
nevadan's picture

Hey pal, your chart is bullshit.  If you'll notice the red caption on the left it says "Temperature difference from 1961 to 1990".  That sounds suspiciously like 29 years to me, not 420,000 years.  That data is scaled on the bottom as 400,000 years which likely does correspond with an ice accumulation of 3300 meters.  If the temperature and CO2 data are matched with the 400k scale then the temp is elevated for approximately the last 10,000 years which doesn't fit with the AGW idea very well now does it?  Whoever put this thing out did it for suckers like you.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 02:17 | 2736347 Slack Jack
Slack Jack's picture

"Hey pal, your chart is bullshit. If you'll notice the red caption on the left it says "Temperature difference from 1961 to 1990 average of -56 (degrees)".

Yes,... that is what it says and that is what it is meant to say.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 09:11 | 2736613 nevadan
nevadan's picture

You really are stupid.  The chart claims a fluctuation of 12 degrees centigrade at an average of -56 degrees centigrade although the zero looks much too high to approximate the central tendency of the temperature range.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 16:35 | 2737538 Slack Jack
Slack Jack's picture

You really are stupid.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 09:54 | 2736674 BobRocket
BobRocket's picture

I love that chart.


Notice how temperature rises and then CO2 rises afterwards, increasing CO2 doesn not cause increase in temperature, it's the other way around.


Temperature rises, CO2 rises, temperature falls.


CO2 increase is coincidental with falling temperatures, it is AGC not AGW that we should be worried about.


Mon, 08/27/2012 - 22:16 | 2742580 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

What I see is that you have bad eyesight.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 21:49 | 2736049 Slack Jack
Slack Jack's picture

Here is a graphic showing temperature (centigrade) versus carbon dioxide concentration (ppm) at Vostok (Antarctica) over the last 420,000 years.

This gives some accurate temperatures for the last 420,000 years.

Hmmmm,... anyone think there is a correlation between carbon dioxide concentration and temperature?

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 23:14 | 2736162 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

We got some Elliot Wave experts around here who should be able to answer that.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 02:21 | 2736362 Slack Jack
Slack Jack's picture

"We got some Elliot Wave experts around here who should be able to answer that."

I think a quick glance would demonstrate the correlation (for most people).

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 10:54 | 2736820 macbone
macbone's picture

The temperature records from 400,000 years ago?  I presume they were using cutting edge Flintstone technology to nail down the accuracy?

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 20:21 | 2735930 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

The Poles have always been a squat, hairy, hard working people. They might have been a little hairier that far back in time though.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 03:55 | 2736431 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

May I suggest a nice white wine with your Crustaceans?


Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:31 | 2734986 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Who has the BAWLS to come up here and KNOCK me off?

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:34 | 2734987 Stoploss
Stoploss's picture

Is it the day after tomorrow??


Ask someone with a salt water swimming pool, what happens when you get two or three inches of rain in the pool.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:41 | 2735051 malikai
malikai's picture

There is such a thing as a salt water swimming pool?

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:58 | 2735120 Chump
Sat, 08/25/2012 - 06:50 | 2736533 malikai
malikai's picture

Hey that's kinda awesome. Can you load them up with salt and make them like the Dead Sea? I spent some time in the Red Sea and the heavy salt content of the water there is great for the skin, plus its real easy to swim in.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 09:30 | 2736643 Chump
Chump's picture

I'm not sure; I only know someone who has one.  I understand that there's a process that separates the chloride out from the salt to treat the water so it's probably a pretty fine balance that needs to be maintained.  Great to swim in and when you get out you don't feel like you're covered in chlorine (because you're not).  Sounds like you'd like one.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 04:02 | 2736435 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

FFS! The suspense is killing me already.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:32 | 2734988 shutdown
shutdown's picture

Great idea ... for three or four weeks each year. 

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:47 | 2735335 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

NE passage or Northern sea route should be icefree year round long before 2030

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:32 | 2734993 The Watchman
The Watchman's picture

Go north young man... Go north I say....

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:33 | 2734998 catch edge ghost
catch edge ghost's picture

Know what happens when you keep dumping billions of gallons of fresh water in to the oceans?

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:35 | 2735013 The Watchman
The Watchman's picture

New Ice Age?

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:38 | 2735028 KidHorn
KidHorn's picture

The arctic ice cap is made up of frozen ocean, not accumulated snow like antarctica and greenland.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 17:51 | 2735523 Matt
Matt's picture

Because only the floating ice is melting.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:14 | 2735209 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

We need to move that fresh water to the Midwest.


Fri, 08/24/2012 - 17:53 | 2735530 Matt
Matt's picture

shovel ready project. to maximise employment, have the workers harvest the ice with shovels and transport it with wheelbarrows. Zero percent unemployment in no time.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 23:19 | 2736166 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

This type of comment comprising the very best Keynesian principles keeps me coming back to ZH time and again.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:34 | 2735003 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

The Northwest passage is open some years and has for centuries. Whats new here?

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:45 | 2735072 SAT 800
SAT 800's picture

What's new is ignorance of these facts combined with MSN propaganda barrage. In 1940-41 there was no artic ice cap at all and a small wooden ship sailed thru the northwest passage, and back again. So, even the story about the "first ship" is utterly false. Also photographs exist from a balloon expedition in 1926 showing little or no ice. The ice retreats and comes back again for reasons of its own; there is no global warming. There is no trend; the ice will simply come back again. the remrarkable thing to note is that this utterly stupid subject has become a "news item"; that is remarkable.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:01 | 2735135 Tinky
Tinky's picture

"there is no global warming"

Really? Please provide a copy of your SAT.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 19:36 | 2735782 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture


The funny thing is even Rex Tillerson publically acknowledges global warming is a serious issue at this point. 

There will always be people who deny science so who cares. I think most people would agree that energy conservation and utilizing new forms of energy are both good things, particularly in terms of individual liberty. 

And whether people want to acknowledge the existence of global warming or not, smart people are working on all sorts of interesting new technologies to help lesson its effects. And old technologies too are being brought back out.

So regardless of where you stand on AGW you will benefit from the research being done because of it. 


Fri, 08/24/2012 - 23:07 | 2736154 ceilidh_trail
ceilidh_trail's picture

Most CEOs "acknowledge" the global warming crap because they fear the wrath of the lefties/EPA in this country. Earth climate fluctuates relative to the activity of the sun, not man. If you have real science to back up your eco crap, then please use it to modify the next hurricane and send just the rain in my direction. Otherwise, go pedal it elsewhere.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 04:02 | 2736434 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Exxon who is really an American company in only a loose technical sense and has operations in more than 30 countries globally, is so terrified of the EPA and lefties that their CEO is claiming global warming is a serious issue just to placate them! Who knew the EPA & lefties were so powerful??

Give your head a shake. 

I work in this field and all major extraction projects take into consideration climate change and green energy solutions regardless of which country they are in because they consume A LOT of energy and cost a lot of money to build / maintain.

In Nova Scotia it's not as big of a deal because you are in a mild climate surrounded by plentiful water and infrastructure. Travel down to Mexico and see how companies are planning their 25 yr mines there. 

Or you could put on the tin hat and continue to believe companies based in the UK (or Canada or Australia or anywhere extraction companies exist) with operations in Africa are just plain terrified of lefties and the EPA.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 01:11 | 2736317 Vesuvius
Vesuvius's picture


In 1940-41 there was an artic ice cap.

Please provide references.

The arctic ice cap has never been lower than in September 2007, and we will probably go lower this september 2012.


Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:35 | 2735010 knukles
knukles's picture

No wonder Carter gave away the Panama Canal.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:35 | 2735011 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Sweet, been meaning to invest in a burrito stand in the Artic.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:36 | 2735017 not fat not stupid
not fat not stupid's picture

Buy gold..lots of it,

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:43 | 2735061 kito
kito's picture

will it melt faster than you when atmospheric temperatures start boiling the oceans?......................  ;)

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:38 | 2735024 The Watchman
The Watchman's picture

Does anybody actually own the ice cap in the North? I call dibs on it while it's still there.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:40 | 2735049 KidHorn
KidHorn's picture

Not the ice cap, but countries have claimed rights on the ocean floor.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:43 | 2735065 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Russia in Particular.

There be minerals down there in Davy Jone's locker. Worth a war.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:57 | 2735116 The Watchman
The Watchman's picture

So how do I start my own country and central bank? Any sugguestions on what to call my new country?

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 18:25 | 2735629 mudduck
mudduck's picture


Fri, 08/24/2012 - 20:24 | 2735938 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Bungholia is a great name.

As for the location, be patient. Those Greek islands may go on the block any day now.

Since Greece is a world shipping power, it's a natural base for an Arctic shipping empire.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 10:35 | 2736780 TheFuture_MrGittes
TheFuture_MrGittes's picture

You could try the 'Lovely' approach, or the Sealand gambit.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:50 | 2735026 NvrGivUp
NvrGivUp's picture

Fantasitic.... More water to dilute the toxic soup we've created. Bullish> ocean life (maybe)water temp down, salinity down??? Bearish > low lying comummunities- bullish for snorkels...

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:43 | 2735062 Blue Dog
Blue Dog's picture

Global warming is a complete and total fraud. The people who preach it want to change the way we live and work based on hysteria. 

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:51 | 2735098 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Relax Francis, it's completely irrelevant as the laws of Nature and physics really don't give a shit what people think.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:57 | 2735117 Count de Money
Count de Money's picture

Global Warming: Creationism for leftists.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 22:07 | 2742564 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Global warming is proven easily with this magical device


eyez, bitchez

use 'em

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:50 | 2735092 chet
chet's picture

I don't believe in science because to do so would be inconvenient for me.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:00 | 2735130 exi1ed0ne
exi1ed0ne's picture

Not believing in gravity works for Wile E. Coyote. . . for a bit.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:51 | 2735097 hannah
hannah's picture

global warming is just a tax scam to bilk people of their money.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 15:58 | 2735122 Vincent Vega
Vincent Vega's picture

Agree. Climate Change is the bait. Cap and Trade is the hook.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:08 | 2735158 hannah
hannah's picture

i bet that if the entire world agreed to tax its citizens 10% for cap and trade ALL the bullshit media would go away because it wasnt needed. we would then go to a new 'problem' that would be solved thru more taxation....

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:03 | 2735142 JohnFrodo
JohnFrodo's picture

All you skeptics, I sure hope your right, however there is no scientific basis to the theorm that sticking your head in the sand and chanting same as it ever was will change reality.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:09 | 2735173 hannah
hannah's picture

frodo you live a modern life in a first world country...? you are just as much of a problem as i am. go live in the mud somewhere and not use any carbon products THEN come here and tell everyone they are at fault....liberal hypocrits....!

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:13 | 2735202 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Same as there is NO REPUTABLE science behind AGW.

Only a myriad of grant seeking climatologists ,and Agenda 21 control freaks.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 22:04 | 2742555 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

endless reams of data, experiments and matching new data to old models shows it is correct.

AGW is very clearly real.

Global warming is very clearly real.

It's already too late to fix it, bitchez.

It's time to think like an investor and buy undervalued real-estate where the damage will be least, growing conditions will improve, while the improverished on certain coastlines and soon-to-be-deserts will need to buy YOUR food.

At this point denying AGW is like going long facebook.

Someone actually told me as FB was rising above 27 off the first big dip that P/E analysis was garbage, market fundamentals didn't matter and I would "learn my lesson" about being short facebook.

Um hmmm.

I sure learned.

You will too.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:41 | 2735311 Count de Money
Count de Money's picture

There's also no scientific basis for running around screaming "The sky is falling!"

"Climate is what you expect. Weather is what you get." - Lazarus Long

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:21 | 2735167 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

This is called the  Northern Sea Route, cuts 4000 miles off a trip from Korea to Rotterdam.Very impressive development. Some experts believe that global warming will create winners and losers.Big Winners should be countries situated in high northern latitudes.,e.g., Canada, Russia. Even the UK should have much longer growing seasons.

 As the article said it will cause a shift in geopolitics.

impressive map from Le Monde diplomatique

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 17:59 | 2735551 Matt
Matt's picture

Unless melting the Greenland ice cap interferes with the thermohaline circulation, in which case the UK and most of Europe will have really cold winters and shorter growing seasons.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 22:12 | 2736061 Slack Jack
Slack Jack's picture

Oldrepublic said: "Some experts believe that global warming will create winners and losers.

Big Winners should be countries situated in high northern latitudes.,e.g., Canada, Russia."


YOU FORGOT THE BIG LOSER; the United States of America.

The USA will become drier and drier as temperatures rise,...

making dust bowl conditions the norm.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 23:30 | 2736194 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Pretty confident about the dust bowl huh?

Read "weather makers" especially the bit about Australian cities running out of water.

Now since the drought broke and The flood waters have largely Subsided,

Laughable bullshit....

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 02:11 | 2736352 Slack Jack
Slack Jack's picture

"Pretty confident about the dust bowl huh?"


The reason why the USA will be a bigger loser than Australia, is because Australia is already mostly desert.

The USA will be the biggest loser overall, because it is presently great farmland, that will slowly turn to desert.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 03:53 | 2736430 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

Wow ....

I'm convinced....

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:09 | 2735172 marklind
marklind's picture

Melting arctic (!) ice caps. Bad news for polar bears.

Some belief it rises  the sea level -- nonsens


try your Coke with ice cubes. you will see, the melting cubes don´t rise your Coke level.

it simple archimedes.


greetings from germany

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:11 | 2735187 hannah
hannah's picture

the oceans are not filled with coke so your argument is invalid..../sarc...just pretending to be a creationist...LOL!

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 22:43 | 2736079 Slack Jack
Slack Jack's picture

marklind said: "Melting arctic (!) ice caps. Bad news for polar bears.

Some belief it rises  the sea level -- nonsens"

marklind artfully avoids mentioning the melting of the antarctic icecap.

His words are designed to decieve.

When all the ice melts, sea levels will RISE by 80 meters (263 feet).

To see that this is true;

Let's calculate the sea-level rise due to just the Antarctic ice sheet melting.

From we glean the following facts;

Area of ice-covered Antarctica = 13,720,000 sq km (5,300,000 sq mi)

Average depth of ice = 1.6  km (1.0 mi)

This implies a volume of ice = 13,720,000 * 1.6 = 21,952,000 km3

From we have;

The area covered by the ocean = 361,000,000 km2

Thus if the Antarctic ice sheet were to melt the sea-level would rise by

21952000/361000000 = 0.06081 km = 60.81 meters.

Now add in the other ice sheets and glaciers and you get a rise of about 80 meters.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 23:34 | 2736222 Poor Grogman
Poor Grogman's picture

You forgot to factor in what would happen if the sun inexplicably exploded.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 22:24 | 2737919 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

Don't be silly.  The sun is not on the Goldman buy list.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 21:59 | 2742550 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture



Mon, 08/27/2012 - 21:59 | 2742547 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

pardon me good sir ... I did not see the integral required to find the volume of the segment of the sphere given that a rise would have a larger surface area at the new sea-level vs the old sea-level.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:30 | 2735277 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

Glaciers on land melting and running into the oceans is what causes the sea level to rise.  The biggest of these glaciers are on Greenland and Antarctica.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 17:17 | 2735421 hannah
hannah's picture

also when the ice on land melts...the land actually rises. 2 miles of ice weighs a lot. north america actually rose when the ice melted off in (each) of the ice ages.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 21:57 | 2742546 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

rises SLOWLY, slower than sea levels. This may be actually part of the volcanic activity pick-up that may or may not be happening - a rebound from the actual ice-age from the ice actually no longer pushing down the continents. Yes, it can take that long to rebound. Opposing pressure (upward) must come from hot magma & shifting plates, the compressed rock isn't sponge that magically bounces back.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:44 | 2735321 Toolshed
Toolshed's picture

"Some belief it rises  the sea level -- nonsens"

Yeah......some IDIOTS maybe. It is the land based ice in Greenland and Antarctica that people are worried about. I thought Germans were supposed to be smart.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:51 | 2735353 Count de Money
Count de Money's picture

Notice he said "arctic ice caps". Well, I guess you didn't bother to actually read what he said before letting your knee jerk.

Some people shouldn't go around calling other people idiots. In all caps, no less.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 22:09 | 2736082 Slack Jack
Slack Jack's picture

Toolshed: "I thought Germans were supposed to be smart."

The chances of Toolshed actually being German, are very low.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:57 | 2735374 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

Actually water ice has the peculiar quality of occupying more volume than liquid water. that's why when the ice melts in your coke, assuming the ice was submerged before melt, you would actually see the soda level fall...


Mon, 08/27/2012 - 21:56 | 2742542 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

hey idiot - this isn't floating ice - quite a lot of ice is actually solid AND attached to landmasses like Greenland ABOVE SEA LEVEL.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:10 | 2735184 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

This should help us Canucks find the remains of the Franklin expedition. Then we can set up a tourist shop.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:12 | 2735195 hannah
hannah's picture

i thought ray mears found the spot....?

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:24 | 2735254 robertocarlos
robertocarlos's picture

We found the bodies long ago. They died of lead poisoning. Now we just want to find the ships Erebus and Terror.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 16:50 | 2737563 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

you lead poisoning as from bullets?

Sun, 08/26/2012 - 00:19 | 2737783 Slack Jack
Slack Jack's picture

The men were found to have lead poisoning due to the lead-tin mix used to solder the cans of their canned food.

However, an evil prick named Goldner shortcut the process for sterilizing the cans and this lead to those in the expedition being killed by food poisoning (botulism).

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 20:29 | 2735941 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Featured item for the Franklin Expedition Tourist Shoppe; authentic freeze-dried Franklin Jerky, tastes like chicken, big like turkey.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:11 | 2735188 TrustWho
TrustWho's picture

I hate cold ice and love the tropics. If carbon is warming the globe, burn more and more organic matter. Remember, we are losing cow farts because of the midwest drought, so burn baby burn.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:16 | 2735218 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Nicely done.  I read that in the voice of Nixon's head.



Fri, 08/24/2012 - 18:48 | 2735701 knukles
knukles's picture


You been inside my head again?

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 20:24 | 2745156 TrustWho
TrustWho's picture

You be correct. Vietnam and Watergate killed Superman.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:13 | 2735198 blueRidgeBoy
blueRidgeBoy's picture

how can I short the Panama Canal?

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:15 | 2735214 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Fill it in.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:16 | 2735217 hannah
hannah's picture

how do we know that the usa will be worse off when the ice caps melt. it could be better weather...?

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:36 | 2735261 Joe A
Joe A's picture

Let's f*ck up the artic region as well with oil drilling and shipping. Hell, we are f*cking up the whole planet anyway, why stop at some big ice-cube?

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 16:46 | 2735330 Count de Money
Count de Money's picture

When they can do this in February as easily as in August, let me know.

In the meantime, here's some reading material for you:

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 18:38 | 2735664 spanish inquisition
spanish inquisition's picture

My educated guess is that global warming and cooling might have something to do with the giant fucking furnace we are circling.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 18:59 | 2735718 knukles
knukles's picture


Fri, 08/24/2012 - 18:59 | 2735741 knukles
knukles's picture

Like even the boys and girls at CERN (attempted to suppress report and ignored by the MSM) concluded that the Sun's impact so far outweighs the AGW horseshit that any further conversation with regards to AGW is nothing but Hot Air (pun intended).

And no I have not the citations at hand nor do I intend to go back and look for them.
Case is closed between the SUN and AGW.

And in any case if AGW is the whole fucking banana, who cares?
So what if mankind kills himself off.
He'll thusly have deserved it.

And PS to the Berkenstocker climate tree huggers... the planet (as in save the planet) will be here long after man has disappeared whether through AGW, GW, meteorites, polar shift, whogivesashitnobodycanname extinction event which happen.

The whole AGW argument as posed today is another meme for the greater gubamint, higher taxes, etc., etc., etc., as has Jack Shit to do with climate change of any shape or form.

Get the fuck over it ya'll.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 21:54 | 2742537 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

if your nonsense was true instead of nonsense then the moon would be heating up just as much as we are being almost nearly the same distance as far as solar radiant intensity is concerned.

The problem is that more gases are being released to our atmosphere - rather than the (transient) sodium atmosphere of the moon's effect acting anything like ours - and many of those gases like co2 and methane reflect infrared.

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 21:52 | 2742534 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

Then your guess would be wrong. If your guess was right you'd have to keep in mind nothing of the sort is happening to the other planets circling the same giant fucking furnace, or the moon which moves with us and faces the same fucking furnace - barring the brief times Earth's shadow is cast upon that moon.

Somehow just Earth is getting these nasty temperature spikes and constant increasing.

Tue, 08/28/2012 - 22:20 | 2745494 spanish inquisition
spanish inquisition's picture

What about the moon? Thats it? The best stuff you can come up with.. The tempeture of the earth has gone up and down for millions of years and at no time was a carbon tax needed.

Wed, 08/29/2012 - 10:31 | 2746448 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

You can't conflate science to a carbon tax.

All taxes & fiat currencies are state-warlord models of massive theft. I defend none of them.

Thu, 08/30/2012 - 08:19 | 2749093 spanish inquisition
spanish inquisition's picture

Ten years ago, I would agree with your entire statement because I concidered science independent (similar to my views of jounalism 20+ years ago). In that time, science through corruption and propaganda is bringing areas of study into the fold. Economics, GM crops, AGW, new drugs and vaccines are areas of science that have corporations designing studies to get predetermined results for profit. 

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 18:50 | 2735710 Cerin
Cerin's picture

I'm just gonna leave this here.....


As a meteorologist with climate background, it amazes me how much ignorance is spewed on the subject on a daily basis, much of it readily debunkable (and already debunked) by science.


The sun excuse has so many nails in its coffin that it's becoming difficult to find another place to put one.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 20:49 | 2735970 hannah
hannah's picture

i'm not a meteorologist with climate background but i do play one on tv and i can positively tell you without reservation that science has nothing to do with global warming and cap and trade.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 22:25 | 2736099 caustixoid
caustixoid's picture

Agreed -- if AGW is real then why are all the proposed solutions useless to cut emissions but take money from the poor and middle-class and redistribute them to wealthy cartels?  Wake me up when they ban private jets and shut down the oil sands.  Until then f*ck off with carbon taxes and cap-and-trade and we're-all-gonna-die hysterics

Mon, 08/27/2012 - 21:50 | 2742528 MeelionDollerBogus
MeelionDollerBogus's picture

cap and trade has no more to do with science than does fiat currency. Because it is another fiat currency.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 00:23 | 2736268 Joe A
Joe A's picture

Don't you know that the average couch potato knows it all better than the climatologists and other scientists who have studied the climate for decades? 95% of climatologists agree on AGW but FOX knows it better. Never mind that the sun has been stable for thousands of years and that solar patterns cannot explain the changes in climate we are experiencing for the last decades. FOX and other media said it is the sun because their big oil owners told them so.

Fri, 08/24/2012 - 23:19 | 2736168 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Who cares?  I ain't got kids.  Ain't no future past MY lifespan.

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 01:19 | 2736283 Lore
Lore's picture



NASA predicts Arctic Ice Gone By Summer 2012

Reality Check: "Polar Bears And Inuit Victims of Environmental Hysteria and Inadequate Science, Not Global Warming" (Tim Ball, 18-Jul)

"The first useable [sea ice] record began in 1980, two years after a satellite was launched...Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) projections...are already incorrect (Figure 2)...the hypothesis and predictions about warming and sea ice decline were wrong. Global temperature has declined despite increasing CO2; sea ice extent has increased and understanding of the role of wind and currents in ice formation and movement have improved.

Tim Ball provides an excellent explanation for how the ice is continually growing AND shrinking. It's a matter of fluid dynamics, but the Meteorological Terrorists would prefer that you didn't know that.  

Data From Leading IPCC Scientists Show Global Temps Have DROPPED Unprecedented 1°C Since 1990

What Is Agenda 21? (Post Sustainability Institute)

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 06:54 | 2736502 Element
Element's picture

Financial Sense NewsHour

Global Warming: Fact, Fiction or Conspiracy? - August 25th 2012

Audio interview:


Heaven and Earth: Global Warming, the Missing Science - October 24, 2009

Financial Sense NewsHour

Audio interview:

"Ian Plimer, twice winner of Australia's highest scientific honor, the Eureka Prize, is professor in the School of Earth and Environmental Sciences at The University of Adelaide and is author of six other books written for the general public in addition to more than 120 scientific papers."

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 07:34 | 2736555 goldinpenguin
goldinpenguin's picture

The US offered to buy greenland from Denmark at the end of WWII for $100M, what a lost opportunity!

I have a place 1/3 mile back from the ocean on the Jersey, it will be worth millions as oceanfront, just wondering how long it'll take...

Sat, 08/25/2012 - 10:27 | 2736751 Marley
Marley's picture

"on a long enough timeline......."  you know the speil.  On a long enough timeline eveyon dies.  However if eveyone dies all at once, the timeline dies with it.  Yeah, we're all going to die.  Yeah there is no scientific basis for global warming but there is no theological basis either.  It does no one any good to die all at the same time.  Your existence is meaningless only if you leave no legacy.  "Uncle, what did you do in your youth."  "Oh I sat around reading blogs that gave my meaningless live purpose."  "You know, I was a master at debating issues of the day."  Even the pyramids will decay away. Insuring the continuation of the species is a legacy.  Money is temporal.  Think beyond yourself, think about your brother's or sister's children.  Their children.  Their children's children.  9 billion by 2050.  12 billion by 2100.  Your brother's or sister's children's children will be there.  Read about epigenenics, energy, pollution, resources, etc., your children's children will be affected by the relavence of these issues.  Or, just sit back and masterbate to "the dark star of a new soulless capitalism that replaced both the principles of Adam Smith’s pure 1776 capitalism and the biblical teachings of Jesus," masterbate your meaningless existence away. 

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