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One Ounce Of Religious Non-Money Tradition = $1700
And while the world's reserve currency, better known to various Chairsatans as "money" continues dropping to record lows courtesy of his dollarcidal tendencies, the "tradition" also known as a "barbarous relic" just passed $1,700. We will be sure to point out when it passes $1,800, $1,900 and $2,000 next.
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Seriously surprised it took 6 hours this evening..
$1764 -- the next critical number; marks the transition to the exponential phase
==============
Jim Sinclair interviewed by James Turk
http://www.goldmoney.com/video/sinclair-turk-interview.html
We may get there this week.
We may get there tomorow.
WE may get there tonight.
We may already be there and just don't know it yet.
+1
Congrats, you are the most enlightened ZH'er i've come across.
Somewhere the Bernank is curled in the fetal position, muttering "Damn that Ron Paul."
Who wants to put odds on Ron Paul as president if gold makes it to $2500 by the election?
he'll be able to self finance his campaign!
GOLD BEEEEYOOOOOOOTCH!
You're presuming that we make it to an election at this point.
That's a very bad call.
Ron Paul will never be elected President of the United States. The Establishment will do everything in their power to cast doubt, discredit and smear him. We will hear about his very loose and questionable ties to (insert your own villain of choice here). If that doesn't work, they will go Strauss-Kahn on his ass. And if that doesn't work ... Holy shit! $1,713 as I type!!!
All I want to see is 1776 $. That would be a perfect birthday present.
+1 Enlighten-Mint.
Where did the buttons go?
'Disappoint-MINTS'
http://www.christianpost.com/news/tenn-democrat-takes-offense-to-sales-of-obama-disappoint-mints-53475/
Yea, where did the buttons go?
Inflation.. cost too much to show them. ZH had to downsize.. ;)
I want a WIN button from President Ford's tenure. It was a big red button you put on your lapel and it meant Whip Inflation Now; it was supposed to work by Zen Psychology or something; I am not making this up! I need one of these buttons; it's time to try voodoo again.
I turned my "WIN" button over and it spelled "NIM" = No Immediate Miracles.
Gold margin hike t minus 6 hours?
So they hike it, let them. If May did not knock you out you're prepared for that now.
It will not have any effect at all.
They just hiked it to 11%
with a 40% sales tax double back flip for good measure. For real though, freedom will not come to you because you tucked a few gold coins away. Sorry peeps your going to have to shed blood or that of your close family at some point... but keep rubbing your pretty metal coins between your fingers if it helps. Pretend that you wont have to sacrifice one day... I like to equate "thee reset" like a grenade going off in a circle jerk of fools.. yea a few of you will survive and drag your self's away but the rest, gold coins or no, will bleed out and die like the country wince you came.
I'll bet you don't even have a passport ....
Your right, but how did you guess ?
I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express last night.
But how did you guess? Probably from your inability to legibly fill out the application form, as evidenced by your (possessive pronoun) grammatical and spelling errors. For example, "Your right" is used when you should have used the contraction of "you are", which happens to contract to, "You're". See it in there? Another example:" Your self's" should be "yourselves". The apostrophe is unnecessary as in this case it denotes ownership (i guess, or are you trying to say your self "is").
Wince? I think that you meant to use "whence", the old English term that meant, "where". Oh, and don't (abbreviation) forget, sentences start with Capitals.
I agree with your (possessive pronoun) sentiments though. It will take more than wishful thinking to get this ship of fools to alter course.
Why does that matter? I, for one, believe I am dead or in prison before the end of the year, unless unexpected events occur.
"Wince you came?" What are you, some kind of idiot?
wince...???
lol..., I weep for the the future...
I winced and then I wept for the future.
I wish you were here, cause when your forecast is fulfilled you wouldn't be.
No offense to Sinclair but he also predicted dollar to b at 72 "and staying there or lower" 4 months ago. Nobody can forsee the future exactly, but we can see it ain't gonna b good
A LOT more people would have been more accurate if this shit wasn't manipulated like some beaten housewife..
All the more reason never to be in the HFT "markets".
Tradition, bitchez!
Real money Bitchez!!!
Devil's advocate here.
If gold is money, why is it that its value is always measured in fiat currency? Why is it that when its value measured in fiat currency goes up, various posters here on ZH tend to get excited? Many folks say all fiat is worthless; if that's so, there isn't a reason to be excited unless you are acquiring more of the physical by whatever means.
Because that gold will now pay for more people to mow my fuckin' lawn.
That and I get to say "I told you so".
+1
+1700 per ounce of lawnmowing teenager...
Seeing gold go up in fiat gives some indication of wealth-not-lost by theft of the cartel. It's a small victory that says, "you didn't get as much as you could have if I had trusted you and your fucking paper."
it's relative...the better question is how is fiat currency valued in terms of gold
But that is equally relative and thus meaning-less ne?
We are at the crux of finally re-figuring out the difference between Price and Value!
ORI
http://aadivaahan.wordpress.com/2011/08/04/many-drafts/
No shit. And where is that level? 2K, 5K, 10K?
Price and Value Bitchez...
well hell i guess we're caught in an existentialist stand off...what is and what is not?
That's the ticket.
The best question is, how is everything valued in terms of gold. That's the one that makes Bernanke twitch.
You can choose to measure gold in all other goods, too. Little clumsy. I guess, if you ask a shopkeeper if you could pay him in gold or silver, he will get excited.
He might get excited, but how many shopkeepers even know the price of gold in dollars? Remember that man-on-the-street that was done awhile back where a guy tried to sell a $50 1 oz gold piece for $50 and no one would take him up on the offer? Most shopkeepers I know only accept US dollars, and nothing larger than a $20.
I'm not trying to be argumentative, but I suspect the real excitement comes from folks imagining "hey, when I convert my gold into US dollars, I can buy more stuff!" Isn't that simply supporting the fiat system?
Dollars to gold to CHF, or Canada dollar, yes fiat but not miserable USD - and only convert as needed to buy widgets
I suspect that more than you think do- especially now that there are all sorts of nifty free apps for smartphones that will give you the spot price in seconds.
The real disconnect here is that most "shopkeepers" aren't running the till. They hire minimum-wage employees to do that, and they are the ones who have no idea what to do. If you were to speak to the owner of whichever establishment you are at, I know the deal would be far easier than you think.
The entire system is set up to prevent using gold as currency. Point-of-sale terminals deal with fiat, not gold. The IRS deals with dollars, not gold. Try paying your quarterly estimated taxes as a business owner with gold. It's not going to happen.
Point taken on shopkeepers (or store owners) perhaps being more aware than I think. I guess it is possible with such easy access to information these days.
" Try paying your quarterly estimated taxes as a business owner with gold."
You can do that in Utah for state taxes with Gold. Plus you get out of the capital gains on appreciation by doing so.
All you need to do is cash-in one coin and you have enough for the whole month's food, taxes and entertainment.
The entire system is set up to prevent using gold as currency.
FRNs are "money" in America by law.
There is no law prohibiting gold being used as money. Such a law would be unconstitutional, a direct violation of the Constitution.
Gold's rare use as money is mostly due to habit. People get used to accepting FRNs. The habit is ingrained in childhood. It sticks all through adulthood.
Way back when FRNs first came out some people wouldn't accept them. They were reminded FRNs are legal tender by law. They had to accept FRNs or not be paid.
But most people accepted FRNs without question simply because they look like a US dollar.
After a few years everybody gets accustomed to FRNs. They simply get in the habit of using FRNs.
It's more habit than anything else. There's no law saying FRNs are the only lawful legal tender. There's no law saying gold can't be legal tender.
So it's up to the individual what they accept. Pretty much everybody accepts FRNs by habit. And some people accept only FRNs, like banks, government agencies, etc.
FRNs are legal tender by law, but there's no law setting the value of FRNs. If someone believes FRNs are losing value they may raise prices, requiring more FRNs for their product or service. For example I had a 20% rate increase this year. Half of it was due to higher costs. Half of it was making up for FRNs losing value.
And yes I would accept gold or silver. But I have to accept FRNs or risk not being paid. If I refuse FRNs the customer is released from any obligation to pay. That's the law.
Sad reminder, but everyone knows what real, lawful money is everywhere:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ubJp6rmUYM
My Barber is smart enough to take a Franklin for my haircuts now.
My dentist accepts silver dollars, too. Took him all of five minutes to come around to the idea when I asked him.
No, it's called retaining your purchasing power you fucking idiot......sorry, not trying to be argumentative.
“Gold has proven to be a superman investment. It can leap over buildings and do things that investments aren’t supposed to do. And it’s laughing at us."
Dennis Gartman agreed: "Ask the average Wall Street wiseguy if they’re bullish on gold. They’ll say, ‘Yeah, you gotta be, we got money problems [with the dollar].’ If you ask them how many hold gold? 'Very few,' " which is where he sees a weakness and potential for an overvalued asset. “It’s a bubble in interest, not in owning," he said, "It’s fascinating: Everybody’s bullish, but very few are long."
(Emphasis added)....... There is a bubble in interest! See? Even Gartman can be right once in a while.
GOLD IS LAUGHING AT US
Gartman is such a douchebag on gold it's hard to put into words.
Gold is the most under held asset in the world, hands down.
Because fiat money is modeled after gold as money and people just forgot that fiat is measured in gold...but they will learn again as they will learn many things they thought to be true are false.
Well I am acquiring more of the physical, regardless of price right now. Silver is more of a day to day transaction money as 1 oz silver still gets you 10 gallons of gas. That value stays relatively stable regardless of what fiat costs are. Thatis the main thing, PMs are inflation proof. The eventual value of all fiat always end up 0 as there has NEVER in history, been a time when that did not happen. Now that being said I look at physical metals as a means to preserve what I have as they inflate fiat into oblivion. I have said this before and say it again, no one buys gold to make money, they buy gold to not get screwed by their non-traditional fiat currency. Maybe I get excited because as gold goes up, it eventually will spell death for the fiat currency. I am excited that the charade will soon be over for fiat and gold's traditional role as money will be restored. Kind of long winded, hope it answers your question.
Try high school one more time..
I watched a CNN clip with a famous investor who said he sees gold just like any other metal. We don't settle accounts with it, etc.
We don't settle accounts with diamonds which are the same carbon as coal. We don't settle accounts with coal, either. I suggest we measure fiat currencies with gold not the other way around. When you get suspicious another Zimbabwe or Weimar Republic currency is about to launch you DO settle accounts with gold and you use other fiats.
Right now the whole world is racing to the bottom value of fiat currencies, Japan, U.S., S. Korea, Brazil...and more competitively devaluing. Gold is real money. If you don't believe it ask yourself what would happen to the any currency in the world even partially backed by gold right now. It would overnight become the strongest currency in the world.
The swiss are introducing a law for a gold franc...talk about beefing up your currency even more than it already is!
http://www.humanaction.co.za/2011/07/swiss-want-to-re-introduce-gold-franc/
Holy moly, Batman! A worldwide gold standard may come back in a meltdown. Here's what i'd like to do at a meeting: Hold up a gold Panda, gold Maple Leaf, Gold Eagle, Krugerrand, etc. and ask what the exchange rate is between all of them. Everyone would look at you like you're an idiot because it's always one to one and never changes. Nobody gives a crap what's stamped on the outside. Now an ounce of gold in China will buy more "stuff" than here but the exchange rate is precise. That is the essence of a gold standard. You cannot get cheated. If someone revalues their currency (as we have) against gold you can institute very precise countermeasures if you like...as in revaluing exchange rates.
Untrue. Buffalo > Gold Eagle > Maple Leaf > Krugerand. People (used to?) value name brand. Check tulving or apmex.
The intrinsic value of gold changes little. As usual you fiat goofs think everything is priced in fiat. The truth is all currencies change as their value rises or falls. The dollar has lost 97% of it's value (purchasing power) since 1971. One oz of gold still buys what it always did and perhaps even more.
Fiat currency is truly a rubber ruler to be sure, but what would you use in it's place? Furlongs per fortnight? Your (possibly) good looks?
Barrels of oil.
Warm fuzzy feeling, Bitchez!!!!!!!
how about them doorstops douchinger?
"Cut the CRAP High Plains!! You are BANNNED for supporting ANAL RAPE!!!!!"
FOFOA freegold is staring us in the face.
+ $55,000
Whether today or tomorrow, I don't know. But, his case becomes ever more compelling...
$1700 is NOTHING, bitchez!
Whew! I need a cig after that!!
BITCHEZ!!
Got a feeling this is gonna be an all-nighter. Keep 'em coming Tyler.
Fuck me. I wanted to buy more.
Same here, those BTFD's get more infrequent over time.
Just a thought; but I wonder what the Silver price chart will do this Friday around lunch time in New York; it's a classic time for them to fuck around; assuming you have a buying mechanism that can lock in a price with a phone call it might be worth watching; it'll either happen, (the waterfall), or it won't. Still good time to wait for the dip. the charts always look like the teeth on a ripsaw; they don't just go in a straight line.
ummm holy shit? Am I allowed to say that here? :$
HOO-ah!
That caps off my night. Tomorrow will be fantastic. $2000/oz by Friday.
Are you excited because you acquired more physical tonight or because the price of gold in fiat currency went up? If the latter, ask yourself what it is you truly value: the gold or the fiat. A better way to look at the "price" of gold is instead to look at the price of currency in gold. Tonight, the number of ounces of gold you could buy for a dollar went down. That's the way to look at it.
I'm excited because I increased my physical silver holdings by 75% this week, and this: http://finviz.com/forex.ashx is telling me that that was just the right move for this evening.
Now I just hope it will stay that way. While I know that the value stays roughly the same in terms of purchasing power, it's still a lot more fun to watch the numbers skyrocket than it is to watch them plunge.
Fair enough. Thanks for the reply. :)
Gold is always denominated in something, otherwise it would not serve as a currency.
Traditionally speaking...
Visuals may be sharp, but intellect is quite dull. Bash away moron, gold can't hear you...
Markets always overshoot. Always. In a later phase, more exponential like chart; the actual purchasing power of silver will go far, far beyond the dollar depreciation. I can't write 6 thousand words here, but I'm absolutely certain of this.
Or, you could look at it like this: in 1996 a nice home in Atlanta cost $210,000 in fiat which would take about 542 ounces of gold.
Today, after that house increased in value to almost $400,000 and then came crashing back down -- that house is still worth about $210,000 (if you can sell it, and if the buyer can find financing.)
However, it only takes about 123 ounces of gold to buy it today.
As time goes on, people with no PM's will increasingly find that their paper is worth-less and becoming worthless -- and they will be willing to trade their hard assets for fewer and fewer ounces of gold.
Gold priced in fiat is an indicator of wealth being transferred through the process above.
Oh, and do you think food is getting more expensive? Well, in 1996 $387 in groceries (one ounce of gold) would fill up two shopping carts. Today it might fill up one. But my one ounce of gold ($1700) will fill up a whole bunch of shopping carts.
How about gas? What was gas in 1996? About $1 (in Atlanta). Ok my one ounce of gold back then would buy 387 gallons of gas. Today in Atlanta, one ounce of gold buys 472 gallons.
So in terms of housing, gold bugs win. In terms of food, gold bugs win. In terms of gasoline, gold bugs win.
We can't do anything about the Evil Empire stealing from us, but we can implement a strategy to nullify their theft.
And chering on the higher fiat price of gold? Yeah, that just means... they are screwing most of the masses hard but NOT US to the extent we can protect ourselves.
A center of mass shot. Very well articulated.
+ $1700
Yeah, but those things don't count when you're measuring inflation, so they must not be that important...
Yes. The actual purchasing power of Silver will increase even more. These metals are always sellable in whatever currency is current; so to speak; it doesn't matter what it's called. Always.
I'm a 24-yr-old with $100 in the bank right now. I'm excited because it shows this false economy is coming to an end. I know it means life will be harder. But I'm praying for an end to globalization, an end to ponzinomics, an end to an entire society built on debt. I'm tired of consumer-driven zombies. I'm tired of the bullshit priorities our country has where the mirage of prosperity and security trumps freedom and opportunity. I'm tired of seeing the paper and 1's and 0's I'm paid with only able to afford less and less while the world demands more and more of my time. I want a return to family, community, conversation, meaning. I want neighbors and bonfires and entertainment and fellowship you can't ever get from an LCD screen. Our society is pathetic, and our economy is a reflection of that. Change the one, you change the other. I don't wish down on anyone, I just hope for a better future - even if it means a lot of pain in the near-term.
Well, you are the hope of the country. This 62 year old tips his hat to you. Don't waste your valuable time standing on a soap box trying to "save" others.
The force runs strong in this youngling.
and from the same generation...
"In the suburbs I
I learned to drive
And you told me we'd never survive
Grab your mother's keys we're leavin'
You always seemed so sure
That one day we'd fight in
In a suburban world
your part of town gets minor
So you're standin' on the opposite shore
But by the time the first bombs fell
We were already bored
We were already, already bored
Sometimes I can't believe it
I'm movin' past the feeling
Sometimes I can't believe it
I'm movin' past the feeling again
Kids wanna be so hard
But in my dreams we're still screamin' and runnin' through the yard
And all of the walls that they built in the seventies finally fall
And all of the houses they build in the seventies finally fall
Meant nothin' at all
Meant nothin' at all
It meant nothin
Sometimes I can't believe it
I'm movin' past the feeling
Sometimes I can't believe it
I'm movin' past the feeling and into the night
So can you understand?
Why I want a daughter while I'm still young
I wanna hold her hand
And show her some beauty
Before this damage is done
But if it's too much to ask, it's too much to ask
Then send me a son
Under the overpass
In the parking lot we're still waiting
It's already passed
So move your feet from hot pavement and into the grass
Cause it's already passed
It's already, already passed!
Sometimes I can't believe it
I'm movin' past the feeling
Sometimes I can't believe it
I'm movin' past the feeling again
I'm movin' past the feeling
I'm movin' past the feeling
In my dreams we're still screamin'
We're still screamin'
We're still screaming
-arcade fire
THIS 55 year old agrees with his companeros above.
Focus on saving what you can, because there ARE scammers and bad politicians who want YOUR work's rewards...
+1715
From a 26 year old here. Nobody else that I know in my age range seems to care though.
a huge.. here here.. to those sentiments
True, but less compelling an argument to me; I own every ounce I can afford to buy, with cash reserve for commodities at or near the bottom of the major sell off now under way.
Crude for the war effort!
Even Dr Who will not be able to close this crack in the financial universe. Asian market killing fiat a penny at a time tonight.
"We will be sure to point out when it passes $1,800, $1,900 and $2,000 next."
Be alert; in the impending collapse AU could go through those levels in hours.
Gold is just a dumb rock in the ground. But dollars are a dumb piece of papef. Since gold and dollars are fiat, at least gold cannkot be printed.
But look for every fucking hack miner to hit claims like an episode of Deadwood- after the last big fiat crash in the late 1800's.
The depression era was a gold standard era but late 1800s we went off standard with very typical but corrupt and predictable results.
This is the end of an era folks.
When last on a gold standard England and the U.S. were the gold trading hubs and the biggest dealers and buyers; now...they aren't in such good shape.
The last "standard" also tried to peg gold at a price when clearly the fiat is what needs to be fixed, from being printed.
Faber: Bernanke is a "Criminal", a "Mad Man", a "Destroyer of WealthMay you meet a traditionally just fate, BananasBernank.
Anacronism, Bitchez.
Antediluvian SILVER should be at $60+ by now!
Is that the what Italy supposedly found to stop gap their deficit until year end? The mythical Atlantis hoard.
Methinks Italy got in on some of Graham Summers' mythical $350/oz gold and that stop-gapped them.
Something is wrong....it should have been there a lot faster! Tomorrow we will be screwed...
Why, is my silver going to turn into mud and ashes?
Tomorrow, next month, next year- it really doesn't matter. The metal isn't going anywhere until I need it to. If they crash it on paper, then it will be on sale again.
I'm worried about a bubble. That puts the iPad/Gold ratio@almost 3.5:1!!!!
"I assure you the recent rise in precious metals is transitory."
I just can't pull the trigger right now. Sit on my stacks. APMEX raised all premiums....
It is already $1801.00 an ounce BITCHEZ
http://www.apmex.com/Category/290/Gold_Eagles___1_oz_2011__Prior.aspx
APMEX is gouging. Their spot price is inflated and their premiums are a ripoff.
Absolutely agree. I have been, and will continue to be, a faithful Apmex customer but their tactics this weekend have been pretty rough. I was looking to buy on Sat. just as they raised their premiums AND bid/ask. I guess I can understand their motivation(s)/reasoning but I'd rather have just seen them close off sales (like they did Sunday) instead of gouging. You REALLY have to watch their tactics.
Otherwise though, Apmex is really pretty good.
"Soon, there will be no sellers of gold and silver, only buyers"
APMEX rocks... I bought the majority of my gold and silver from them. I buy buffalos not eagles . I'm currently 75% PM . Everyone said I was crazy ... I tried to warn my friends for years but they kept saying gold is a bubble for the last $700 . I pity those fools.
Don't forget to take a break Tyler. You deserve one.
$1,600, how short I knew thee.....
Obviously this must be a mistake. The government has assured us of that.
Your popcorn eating avatar...+1
May 26, 2010 here on ZH: "Greek Scramble For Physical Brings Gold Price To $1,700 Per Ounce" (http://www.zerohedge.com/article/greek-scramble-physical-brings-gold-pri...)
Hello Greece!
Gold isn't money. Try buying 1700 cheeseburgers at mcdonalds with a gold coin and see if they'll take it.
Gold is what you BARTER with during the Mad Max era where people wear horned helmets and football pads
Technically, dollars are not money... only currency (fiat). In order to qualify as money it has to retain value, which any currency fails miserably at. Besides, you can't trade IOUs from your neighbor for cheeseburgers either... they have to be labled "legal tender" first...
The lack of basic understanding of money theory makes it difficult to discuss the implications of what's going on...
Then you should avoid it.
I own a huge Car Audio store...Bring it all in. Gold, Silver........Better than paper in our store!
Exactly. It's not money.. it's "I'll trade you a gold nugget for that bazooka subwoofer, waddayasay". you get the jew middleman moneychanger out of the picture and go straight for barter.
I'm wondering just how deep you can dig that hole you're standing in.
Deep enough for U.
so what you are really saying is you are a snitch for the dea becuase your customer base is all drug dealers paying cash who want secret compartments to hide their kilo's in!
thank you...QED
Tell us that again when $1700 in FRN buys you one McDonald's cheeseburger.
+1 for that, priceless!
+$1700, minus pickles.
Right. Reverse the proposition.
Ramboy? You're on.
If you're dumb enough to barter a gold coin for 1700 cheeseburgers, you're probably dumb enough to say gold isn't money.
You'd be dumb enough to accept a stupid yellow coin for 1700 cheeseburgers when Mad Max is your reality and starvation's rampant.
Probably not. That'd be enough to buy a small farm.
In a SHTF scenario, the farmer probably wouldn't be that stupid to sell. But he might put the buyer with gold to work in exchange for food/shelter and offer to store and guard the precious in exchange for an IOU.
While Mad Max may indeed be fine entertainment...it is not history. And there is a few thousand years of history that says, in no uncertain terms, that not only is Gold really "money"...it is in fact the only real money.
And that real money is currently going for 1704.30 per oz.
Whaaa??? Most of history is Mad Max. Only with horses instead of cars.
Yes, for the lords of the manor. There was always someone waiting for the first sign of weakness. But that is just the scum that floats to the top of society. The rest of us know the value of cooperation. It's the only way to get the crops in.