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Panetta Says Us Will Take Military Action In Iran If All Else Fails
Wonder why risk is sliding, and taking crude with it? Here's why:
- DEFENSE SECRETARY PANETTA SAYS THE US WILL TAKE MILITARY ACTION TO PREVENT IRAN FROM ACQUIRING NUCLEAR WEAPON IF ALL ELSE FAILS - RTRS
Guess what - all else will fail, as there is no "all else" - this whole charade has been set up precisely to leave Iran with no options. Then again, even the Pentagon knows that starting with a lower baseline in Crude, supposedly in the double digits, is preferable to a $110 jumping board when Operating Enduring Iran Oil Liberation is a go.
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Bringin It asked:
Nothing would surprise me as pertains to the criminals that run Israel. They have a lot in common with the criminals that run the United States, in particular their use of psychological projection.
You can learn a lot about politicians based on the targets of their demonization. The ones that champion the sanctity of marriage are the ones caught having affairs and patronizing prostitutes. The ones that go out of their way to emphasize the wickedness of homosexuality are the ones later outed as closet queens. Mark Foley, anti-pedophile crusader and defender of exploited children, was spending his free time texting underage boys that worked as congressional pages. Just last month, it was revealed that Arizona sheriff Paul Babeu, a well-known hawk against illegal immigration, was involved in a gay relationship with an illegal Mexican immigrant.
The crusaders reveal themselves by what they demonize. This is what worries me about the leaders of Israel. They know that their enemies are determined to exterminate them with weapons of mass destruction. They emphasize this at every opportunity, and portray the leaders of Iran as bloodthirsty religious fanatics.
The world should be deeply concerned about Israel's stockpile of nuclear warheads.
I think this is wrong, LoP. I once shared an airplane ride with an IAEA official who was enroute Vienna and had a talk with him about monitoring.
The nature of the neutron flux that can be detected outside the borders of a given country will identify the type of material inside the country. The production of weapons grade material or development of techniques and testing them is detectable, according to that guy and . . . it did make sense.
I don't think he was saying anything about different types of neutrons because that's silly. He was saying the quantity of them and various attendant particles identified it all clearly.
Time travel? Flux capacitor....
Stuart = Zionist Shill & probably some government dork paid to post pro-Israel nonsense to counter the growing Ant-Israel movement.
Everyone's tired of Israel. Not only was that translation false propaganda, who cares if Iran wants to wipe Israel off the map?
What has Israel ever done for the USA? Or, for anyone? We should cut off all their welfare money & let them fight everyone in the Middle East on their own. If we cut them off, they'd shut up quick.
Fuck Israel.
"Iran having nuclear bomb is a BAD idea."
Correct. The Iranian leadership themselves agree and have said so. The don't need one to liberate Palestine (an irradiated Palestine is of no use to anyone) and they don't need one as a deterrent against agressors.
They already have the perfect weapon to deter the US: they can destroy all refining capacity in Saudi Arabia and block crude movements out of the gulf.
What more deterrent do they need?
What will it take for the average obese, food-stamp reliant American to realize they aint so free, nor so brave, when just like Iraq, Iran is another epic failure and gasoline is $5 a gallon. At some point China says WTF and switches off life support. That will be sometime after global trade grinds to a halt, and China's exports to a Europe in depression approach zero.
Suddenly, with oil over $200/bbl, supporting the US will be a non issue. The transportation cost will remove any labor savings. Jeff Rubin covered this in his book about our world getting smaller.
"What will it take for the average obese, food-stamp reliant American to realize they aint so free, nor so brave"
Certainly not more dead brown people. The brown people bodycount has been rising steadily for all of Amrica's history and Joe Voter (the ultimate moron) still doesn't give a single shit.
"whole charade has been set up precisely to leave Iran with no options."
Spot on.
Of course, given the (forced) 'option' to abandon the dollar and sell its oil for gold is not too shabby.
Never underestimate this administration's ability to kick the can down the road...
Unfortunately, the 'can' has become a 55 gallon drum.
I think you meant 42 gal
How would one put that skill on a resume? Just in case November doesn't go well, of course.
"Master of displacing metallic cylindrical objects into the future"?
The Iranians I've known, and I've known quite a few since spending time in Iran after Peace Corps in the 1960s, are uniformly very smart people. They have been under attack by the West for over 50 years, and you can bet that they have known for a long time that a direct military attack by US/UK/Israel is inevitable. So, given that inevitability, how likely is it that they have not long ago prepared really serious counter-measures inside the countries of their attackers? I would guess that Homeland Security is like a dog chasing its tail when it comes to identifying and interdicting these countermeasures - the dog looks stupid and accomplishes nothing. I would not be completely shocked if, within a day or two of our attacking Iran, some very nasty things started happening in major cities in the US and Europe. Where I live all I have to worry about is an east wind from Houston - other than that I plan to get some popcorn and watch the show.
You are right about Iranian people, they are mostly smart and well educated. Most of them have no love for the hard line Islamist leadership, which behaves like a feudal overlord. Business has `tribute` payments extorted by thugs in the name of religion. And so they have developed a highly fraternal system of localised black market barter ecconomy. Doctors tend to know all their patients on a personal level, one will be their barber, another their butcher. The butcher will suply a builder, the builder will maintain the butchers shop and home etc etc. Rather than attacking these people we should learn from them.
Do these people support their leadership in removing Israel off the face of the earth? If so, 'nuff said. if not, then they should do something about it and it speaks to the point that it's not the people that would be the target of any attack, it's their leaders that wish to put them in harms way. In fact they would likely try and use them as shields. Is usually the case. The sooner they get new leaders, from internal measures, the better their future.
that quote is a lie... The real translation is that the zionist REGIME should be wiped away... and who could possible disagree with that?
MSM twisted the context of the UN speech to fit their means to an end. Go look up the translation of that speech and Iran never said that.
Look, I'm not supporting nor condeming either country, I just want the truth to come out of how evil the USA is. Kinda fucked up isn't it? And that's comming from a Patriot who served his Country honorably.
We.. are the axis of evil. Wake up butter cup.
"Stuart" is not one of the better hasbra-bots.
no he's not. alot of jew haters on this board... wow.
Declining to hate Iran doesn't make someone a jew hater, although for sure I agree there are a lot of jew-haters here. ;)
*Israel* Haters, get it straight anti semite. I have alot of wonderful Jewish friends that don't agree with Israel, what's your excuse?
Aside from the error regarding Iran's desire to exterminate Israel rather than the ZOG, for the rest of your post you could be referring to the USA.
If I were Iran I would be claiming the right to defend my country from those lunatics in Israel.
Israel already has the bomb and Iran is still here. The same cannot be said in reverse. Iran succeeded. After years of rhetoric of how it would if it could blow Israel off the map, they succeeded...in that enough people now believe them. They said it so often, so harshly, so persuasively that guess what, we now fucking believe them. Is it a shock then that many do not want them to have the bomb?? holy crap people it's not rocket science. WE believe their rhetoric. Sooooo, they're not going to be allowed to develop a bomb, period. Why?? because we believe their rhetoric and cannot allow that to happen. Let alone that the Saudis, thinking Shia/Sunni thing here... Iran nukes a refinery or two... $500 oil. They cannot have 'the bomb'. Not even debatable.
I was at the WA state Republican caucases this Saturday to vote for Ron Paul. It was dismaying to hear the old people around me talking about how we had to get "tough" with Iran. 90% of the people under 30 in the room were Ron Paul supporters. No one over the age of 65 was. The woman next to me was supporting Newt. I had to bite my tongue to prevent myself from asking "how can you support Newt Gingrich", but I decided to be civil.
after iran, saudi arabia!
Is that to kill the Shites of Saudi Arabia?
same song, different verse...
let's just do some math, here, ok?
penatta = stuffed shirt shilling for banksters + bigOil
if they're gonna do this, why tf are they waiting? bibi shows up, commands this shill to speak, and goes back into his zionist hole
this sure takes the negative opinion on the zionists down a peg, tho, doesn't it?
'Guess what - all else will fail, as there is no "all else" - this whole charade has been set up precisely to leave Iran with no options.'
at least tyler recognizes the charade; why the charade remains to be seen, imo; weren't we gonna strike syria just yesteday b/c some looneyToons war-mongering senator in "charge" of some committee sedso?
MIC propwash for corpo-fascist criminal greed is about all i'm hearing
do yer toy-boy little strike and let's move on, or better yet, just quit flappin yer putrid zionist war-mongering tongues
The Obama administration is following the exact same script that G.W. did back in 2002-2003 to build up to the 2nd Iraq war. They're already going through the motions of sanctions. Expect some Congressional hearings on the high level of readiness in Iran's nuclear weapons program soon. Then, there will be some form of ultimatum with respect to weapons inspectors being allowed access throughout Iran. Then, it's "Game On".
The trick is going to be how do you keep the liberal wing of the Democratic party from recoiling in disgust from this new war? They've done a good job of rallying them to the banner with the contraceptive controversy, but some liberals do still have a conscience when it comes to overseas wars. It's a problem that Bush never faced, because the Republican right-wing core in 2003 was all for the war in Iraq.
hi!
the MIC only has ONE script, E-Dogg!
they can only say: we can do you
imo, the "sanctions" aren't "real" foreignPolicy, even if europa "goes along w/them", b/c iran can still engage in trade, as we're seeing
i don't imbibe MSM "news" so your 2nd para about "the trick" sounds like it was written by a martian, to slewie!
any new prez wpuld come in next january, btw...
i think you may be failing to see that the straightsOfHormuz are the key the US interests, here
so the question becomes, does the MIC want these straights CLOSED DOWN?
i can't answer that for them, bit it is a yes/no question and pretty SIMPLE
if they want the straight closed down, they should keep fuking around and do something tactical, militarily. the sencond tactical strike, iran closes the straights, imo, maybe even the first one
this assumes iran can cause the closure, of course, if they are attacked
TPTB are doing so shittlily4soLong that they might want the straights closed, just to play more games w/ OPEC and what they might do in response. that sounds pretty crazy, but crazy is the zionist/MIC long suit, in case the MSM hasn't told you, L0L!!!
again, i dont really think iran is too big a threat to israel or the US, or the EU or the girl Scouts
but people who live on MSM propaganda as "news" will see it as such, as you mention, just like b4 '03>>iraq and all THOSE lies
so it seems the purpose here may be simply to keep the sheeple asleep
personallly, i don't see what we gain by this, but i don't live offa the MIC budget/cash flows and banksterism, either
this whole 3-month "what are they gonna do" show, to me, is just completely fuking boring, but as propaganda, tend to "reinforce" the idea that bibi, prez0 and panetta are "in charge" and can "do something" + any "change" would be "dangerous" Hahaha!
i'm wrong all the time, tho, as i'm sure you know
Iran can close Hormuz in hours.
Nice new(very hard to detect) German diesel subs that can lay mines.
Then ALL shipping has to slow to minimum speed whilst mine sweeping goes on.
Anything sailing in the Gulf would soon be at the bottom of it courtesy of 3000+
Chinese made pop up surface to surface missiles.
An impossibe tactical position unless you want much bigger losses than Pearl Harbor.
hopefully this holy trinity of moronoc shitheads won't "decide" it is in US-israeli intersts to find out
they really can't stand having a few square miles they can't "control" tho!
bilary may have a dead line to the swissEmbassy, at this point, due to bankstering conflicts! Hahaha!
in fairness to leonPanetta, i just said that abt him being a stuffed shirt and a shill; so maybe it was a bit much; sorry, dude
here, he is just doing his job, imo
his boss is unoWho and this bullshit [hopefully] is just a parting gift to bibi from theBoss
besides, isn't panetta basically a spook?
Leon E. Panetta — Central Intelligence Agency Leon Edward Panetta became the 19th Director of the Central Intelligence Agency on 13 February 2009. As Director, he leads the Agency and manages human intelligence ...www.cia.gov/about-cia/leadership/leon-e-panetta.html - Cached
Leon Panetta - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia As director of the CIA, Panetta presided over the operations that led to Osama bin Laden's death. On April 28, 2011, Obama announced the nomination of Panetta as Defense ... en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leon_Panetta - Cached however, he is the top civilian in the miltary chain of command, now, and the US civilians have always controlled the miltary! L0L!!! every person in uniform works for him and the prez0 in the chain0'command what the hell, if we're gonna have spooks + military, we might as well let leon honor the tradition as we spend our way into another glorious episode of: theWar0nTerrirhanone of my intel chick has just sent me this transcript of a historical meeting at the oval office, in early 2009, daze after the inauguration of the kenyan guy
[edited by slewie]
prez0: i want you to take over theAgency and get binLadin (wink, wink)
Leon P: are you kidding me?
in this sheep-shoot-show?
wow!
thanks, nigga!
Keep rattling the sabers.
Guaranteed to make then go for the bomb ,if they
don't have them already.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=btpnI__tQdE
Day After part 6
Great movie...
Why? He just admitted under oath 1.5 weeks ago that Iran does NOT posses or are trying to produce nuclear war heads?
Here check this out.
Wrong, were being contracted to shut Iran down jointly, it’s not left or right, up or down or having to choose sides. It’s about a joint collaboration of war that will have lasting ramifications for generations to come.
We need it to look like Israel just protecting themselves, because if not, China, Russia et al will rain hell down on the USA if WE, USA go it alone.
Go To the Daily Bell and look for the article called “Happy New Year” on the right of the page and read. That’s the true intentions of this “war”.
1. Why did Leon Panetta just admit last week Iran is not persuing nuclear war heads?
2. Why did Israel concure?
3. What #3 oil producer doesn’t accept the US dollar for oil anymore?
Search and answer these questions for yourself and it will become abunduntly clear just what this is about. It’s not about nuclear war heads. See through the MSM Bull.
1. Last Spring, Rose
Gottemoeller, an assistant secretary of state and Washington’s chief
nuclear arms negotiator, asked Israel to sign the Nuclear
Non-Proliferation Treaty. Israel refused.
2. The
United Nations passed a resolution calling on Israel to sign the Nuclear
Non-Proliferation Treaty and to submit to inspections. Israel refused.
3. The IAEA asked Israel to sign the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty and to submit to inspections. Israel refused.
4. Iran’s
formal notification to the IAEA of the planned construction of the
backup fuel-rod facility underscores that Iran is playing by the rules
of the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty which Iran has signed.
5. Iran allows IAEA inspections of all its facilities.
6. Contrary to face-saving claims, it appears that the US and Israel
were both caught off guard by Iran’s announcement of a planned
underground (to avoid being bombed) enrichment facility. The reasoning
is simple. Had the US or Israel announced the existence of the new
facility before Iran’s notified the IAEA, it would have put Iran on the
defensive. As it is now, the US and Israel seem to be playing catch up,
casting doubt on the veracity of Israel’s claims to “know” that Iran is a
nuclear threat.
7. The IAEA and all 16 United States Intelligence Agencies are unanimous in agreement that Iran is not building and does not possess nuclear weapons.
8. In 1986, Mordachai Vanunu blew the whistle and provided photographs showing Israel’s clandestine nuclear weapons factory underneath the reactor at Dimona.
9. Israel made the same accusations against Iraq that it is making
against Iran, leading up to Israel’s bombing of the power station at
Osirik. Following the invasion of 2003, international
experts examined the ruins of the power station at Osirik and found no
evidence of a clandestine weapons factory in the rubble.
10. The United Nations has just released the Goldstone Report, a
scathing report which accuses Israel of 37 specific war crimes and
crimes against humanity in Gaza earlier this year. Israel has denounced
the report as “Anti-Semitic (even though Judge Goldstone is himself
Jewish), and the United States will block the report from being referred
to the War Crimes Tribunal at the Hague, thereby making the US
Government an accessory after-the-fact.
11. Recently
revealed documents prove not only that Israel has nuclear weapos, but
actually tried to sell some to Apartheid South Africa. Who else Israel approached to sell nuclear weapons remains an unasked question.
12. In 1965, Israel stole over 200-600 pounds of weapons-grade uranium from the United States.
13. Declassified documents from the former South African regime prove not only that
Israel has had nuclear weapons for decades, but has tried to sell them to other countries!
-MR.
Did you see that little Gem in the news today about Bin Laden?
>>>Did you see that little Gem in the news today about Bin Laden?
they are going to milk that psy-op bs story for every last drop propaganda value, and then use it some more...
Bingo! How the fuck does Osama Bin Ladens body show up on a CIA Aircraft in Dover Delaware when we ALL saw the dead of night pictures of him being buried at sea within the context of a "Muslim burial ceremony"? Mecca is not South, meaning straight down.
What a joke. They have alot of explaining to do now. This Administration has -0- credibility at this point if they had any to begin with.
Search: "Madiline Albright preparing for an '04 October suprise for GW Bush"
Nuff said.
Signed,
Disenfranchised american.
>What #3 oil producer doesn’t accept the US dollar for oil anymore?
That alone is an excellent reason for toppling the Iranian regime.
I support free markets and believe that the scarce resources of Earth should be distributed through the market process in service of the most urgent needs of humanity. The gang of criminals that is that Iranian government cannot rightfully monopolize these resources through violence. It stands in the way of a free market and is surely to blame for Iran's attrocious score in the Economic Freedom Index. Ending the Iranian regime will help move us toward a peaceful world organized by division of labor and voluntary exchange.
If you have to bomb them to make them participate, there's nothing "free" about the market.
You're not really that blind, are you?
Panetta Says: It's getting close to the election and Obama needs a diversion from the economic mess and deficits. Weapons of mass diversion.
>this whole charade has been set up precisely to leave Iran with no options.
I call bullshit. Iran has a LOT of options. For starters, it could:
-Stop murdering journalists and homosexuals.
-Build it's radioactive cancer treatments in facilities that can be inspected, not in underground hardened military installations.
-Apologize for saying it wants to wipe Israel of the map.
if all else fails and it looks like Obama is going to lose....
There fixed it for panetta
Well, President Obama certainly has my vote if he can demonstrate courageous and just action.
I'm shocked, a warmonger sock puppet in the US government
He's the Secretary of Defense.
He's not Mr. Rogers.
he's a spook, so he's both, doc!
yeah but pin_etta isn't the one who pulls the switch... aint gonna happen
American media and American politicians are almost completely dominated by the interests of a foreign nation, Israel. It is an election year which means extra emphasis is placed on Republican candidates and Obama as well.
The point of reference is AIPAC requiring a mandated appearance of support from Obama and all Republican candidates and their complete capitulation to Zionists’ demands…with the exception of one man. Ron Paul refuses to turn the sovereignty of his country over to the interests of another nation.
IMO, not much is going to happen in an election year. Obama tries to skate ever closer to the Israeli position, knowing that a war before election time is his worst nightmare. And so, his administration chooses their words carefully. They would stop Iran from “acquiring nuclear weapons (Panetta’s craftily-worded latest comment).” But administration officials let it leak out that they do not consider Iran to be developing nuclear weapons; and that its program so far has been for domestic nuclear power.
Obama’s appearance before AIPAC was like a programmed fancy dance; gushing in support but urging time for negotiations to take effect. That’s the language of an election year.
Meanwhile, the wild-eyed, war-mongering, throw-America-under-the-bus-for-the-sake-of-central-bank-support-and-media-adulation GOP candidates would attack Iran just for its nuclear program regardless of whether weapons are involved.
The American people were very weary of the Iraq War and its lies of support; that’s why Obama is president and not McCain. The push into Afghanistan angered and disappointed them even further and a war to support Israel will not bring their support. Netanyahu knows that the most oral support he can get for his war is an election year with the GOP candidates throwing red meat to the Israel-first Christians and Obama trying to dance around the subject without making any commitments.
Once a new president is elected in November, be he Obama or a Republican, the Israeli interests, IMO, will be diminished because that president needs the support of the American people and not the media
Watched Netonyahooo! on the tube yesterday talking tough, pretending to be a concerned leader. His bulked-up body guards looked way more concerned, flanking him, eyes shifting, one in front, one in back, looking behind them suspiciously as they moved him off the stage after his propagandized speech. Criminals. All of them. The globe has been hijacked by a mob of thugs motivated by greed and power, dancing to their master's fiddle in the City of London.
Israel will be the centre in this spinning maelstrom of death. They call the shots. They have Uncle Sam by the balls. Elections are a joke. Governments are a joke. Democracy is a joke. Financial markets are a joke. Human rights are a joke. Humanitarian causes are a joke.
New World Order? Human bondage on a scale never seen or even dreamed of? Everyday life pulled out from under us like a tablecloth from under the dishes in a second-rate magician's act? Coming right up.
"We created terror among the Arabs and all the villages around. In one blow, we changed the strategic situation." -- Menachem Begin
“The Bolshevik Revolution,” said a leading American Jewish community newspaper (American Hebrew) in 1920, "was largely the product of Jewish thinking, Jewish discontent, Jewish effort to reconstruct.”
Winston Churchill, pointing to the crucial role played by the Jews in Bolshevism in an essay published in the February 8, 1920, issue of the London Illustrated Sunday Herald warned: Bolshevism is a “worldwide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality… There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by the international and for the most part atheistical Jews… With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews…”
Continued Chruchill: “From the days of Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx to those of Trotsky, Bela Kuhn, Rosa Luxembourg, and Emma Goldman, this worldwide conspiracy has been steadily growing. This conspiracy has played a definitely recognizable role in the tragedy of the French Revolution. It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th century, and now at last, this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.”
And, now, the entire Middle East…and ultimately, America.
yes, the bankster oligarchy wants the war, and their puppet politicians seem to be on board for the most part but interestingly it seems the military is not warming up to the idea. I have not seen any support for an invasion of Iran, but have heard a few of top military officials arguing against the idea and presenting rational, logical reasons as to why it is an entirely bad idea.
is there trouble brewing in paradise? remember, it was that Navy Admiral (Mullen?) who turned Bush down flat on Iran previously, said it simply wasn't going to happen. and the idea isn't any more popular now than it was then as evidenced by Gen. Dempsey saying Iran was acting rationally and essentially does not pose a threat to anybody, as did that Israeli Brigadier General . not to mention all the money active military is pumping into the Paul campaign.
It just might take an outrageous FF to get the military on board, but the bigger that FF is the greater the risk of it being exposed, and if it did get called out, things could get really ugly.
I don't think our military and civilian leaderships are entirely in tune right now, but just how unstable that relationship has become has yet to be seen. It will be interesting to see this all play out, what all the angles are for everybody involved, cause right now it doesn't appear everybody is playing on the same team.
USA! USA! USA!
Panetta recently said Iran is not developing nuclear weapons, but if all else fails, we have to go to war?
http://news.antiwar.com/2012/02/16/panetta-iran-is-not-developing-nuclea...
Gustave Gilbert, an intelligence officer, interviewed Hermann Goering at Nuremberg on
18th April, 1946.
We got around to the subject of war again and I said that, contrary to his attitude, I did not
Think that the common people are very thankful for leaders who bring them war and destruction.
"Why, of course, the people don't want war," Goering shrugged. "Why would some poor slob on a
farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to
his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in
England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it
is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to
drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or
a Communist dictatorship."
"There is one difference," I pointed out. "In a democracy the people have some say in the
matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can
declare wars."
"Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to
the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being
attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger.
It works the same way in any country."
It appears from these comments that the vast majority of you are more than willing to give the benefit of the doubt to Iran. This, I don't understand. I am no great fan of these, my United states of America as of late, but I am not so discouraged as to throw in with a culture which appears to thrive on pure, unadultrated hate and a criminal subjugation of women. What is going on here? The cherry picking of news and information that is being used to defend the position of Iran seems intellectually dishonest at best.
Junk me all you want, I am just encouraging thought. I don't want a war. But I firmly support Israels right to defend themselves against what they would consider a threat to their way of life, indeed, the right to live at all. Whether the US, or anyone else from either side goes in is another subject altogether.
Have you ever been to Iran? ever both to do any research on Iran from non-zionist tainted sources? Americans have been fed a steady diet of lies and distortions about Iran for decades, all leading up to this moment... to desensitize americans to the slaughter of Iranian men women and children all so that zionists can create their dream of a greater israel. Do you have kids or grandkids? look at them and them imagine them ripped apart and burned alive, crushed under rubble and maimed... that is reality, wake up.
Your so called point is completely lost on me.
You'll have to dumb it down so I can get it. Sorry to trouble you.
attacking another sovereign nation isn't "defending" yourself for starters... but, that should be self evident to anyone with an average IQ.
>attacking another sovereign nation isn't "defending" yourself for starters
Are you a statist? That's where we differ. I believe people are sovereign, not nations.
I would employ the services of the local police if my neighbor 50 ft away were stockpiling explosives in his garage.
Likewise, I would employ the services of the USA government if a backwards, murderous gang with a 13th century mindset is working to develop nuclear weapons thousands of miles away.
then probably you should get on the big phone and call the world police pronto... i just heard that israel is secretly stocking 300+ undeclared nuclear weapons...
Or.. you can just read this, nothing has changed since then if you read my brief below. Thanks for the link "Juzt-us".
http://info.publicintelligence.net/UK-IsraelNukes.pdf
>I am not so discouraged as to throw in with a culture which appears to thrive on pure, unadultrated hate and a criminal subjugation of women. What is going on here?
The problem is just a lack of perspective. It's easy to criticize the USA. I can produce logical argumentation showing why even public roads and public libraries are an evil.
But in pedantry there is a danger of losing perspective. The fact is that USA is among the freest places in the world, while Iran is one of the most backward countries in the world and its people are suffering at the hands of a murderous gang of criminals. A degree of common sense and pragmatism is needed here. One needs thymology.
For the libertarians out there, I ask them, would Rothbard's private providers of security and arbitration services decide to attack Iran? Why or why not? Under Kinsella's theory of estoppel, can one who builds "cancer treatments" in hardened underground bunkers logically object to fission weapons being dropped on them?
There is no need for the USA to fear engaging Iran. As von Mises explains in Human Action,
"The military events of both World Wars have proved anew that the capitalistic countries are paramount also in armaments production... Where capitalistic entrepreneurship is allowed to function freely, the fighting forces will always be so well equipped that the biggest armies of the backward peoples will be no match for them. There has even been great exaggeration of the danger of making the formulas for manufacturing “secret” weapons universally known. If war comes again, the searching mind of the capitalistic world will always have a head start on the peoples who merely copy and imitate clumsily."
war cannot and should not be evaluated in terms of dollars and cents... that is the neoCON/zionist worldview... what does war look like for real humans?:
http://uruknet.com/?p=m85271&hd=&size=1&l=e
"war cannot and should not be evaluated in terms of dollars and cents... that is the neoCON/zionist worldview..."
Ideally it should be evaluated in terms of dollars and cents. That's the only way to unleash economic calculation: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economic_calculation_problem
"The price conveys embedded information about the abundance of resources as well as their desirability which in turn allows, on the basis of individual consensual decisions, corrections that prevent shortages and surpluses; Mises and Hayek argued that this is the only possible solution, and without the information provided by market prices socialism lacks a method to rationally allocate resources."
Note that security services are scarce just like any other economic good. And if you don't understand economics, then I fear we don't have much to discuss.
Whoa. Now idiots are using Austrian economists to justify stupid wars. This idiot probably works for the US government.
Wait, saying someone is an idiot & works for the US government is repetitive. It goes without saying.
>Now idiots are using Austrian economists to justify stupid wars.
And yet you utterly failed to produce a refutation, providing only ad hominem remarks.
It's a shame. I was looking forward to a debate with honest, truth-seeking participants.
"For the libertarians out there, I ask them, would Rothbard's private providers of security and arbitration services decide to attack Iran? Why or why not? Under Kinsella's theory of estoppel, can one who builds "cancer treatments" in hardened underground bunkers logically object to fission weapons being dropped on them?"
Careful with that argument, "truth seeking" troll. It could easily be turned around against a state that has refused to sign the NPT, has developed nuclear weapons, committed terrorist atrocities and threatens its neighbours far and wide.
If you seek the truth, go and live in Iran, study its culture and history and discover that these "most backward" Untermenschen are better educated and informed than the average american, are proud and patriotic in the face of external bullying and will band together in spite of differences of opinion about the role of religion in politics.
Austro-Anarchist Libertarian Legal Theory?...Thymology? Rothbard?
So you've done some reading, and think you're ready to bait the bear in it's own den!?!? Cute.
First couple of times I read your comments here in the last few day, I couldn't figure out whether the sarc on was missing or what...it now appears that you are actually playing this straight, and dying to get a reaction.
The flourishes you've gone to such pains to produce are nothing more than the tell-tale brittle intellectualism of the cabbalist metaphysician. The reference to the C13th was the giveaway. It is you who visit here from those dark and far off times, of Avraham Abulafi, Joseph Gikatulla, Moseh De Leòn, and the rest of the fabulists who dreamed up the theological justifications for stealing souls and invoking demons. Backwards are you, and backwards you go, back into the box, back into the vortex, back to those who sent you forwards in time to this juncture in hope of creating fear and terror. We know you, and do not heed you. Be gone, demon. Be.Gone.
{written at 13:02, NYC time, as the price of gold read 1666.66 -and the blood sacrificial carnival of Persian souls - Purim - draws nigh.}
Again, no refutation. Just more ad hominem nonsense and, this time, a bunch of mystical mumbo jumbo from The Davinci Code.
question : did u read it?
i read it; joyful's rant
and i did NOT read drA's long piece to which JOYFUL is responding here
j_ful does not seem to respect the psychodynamics of the Kabala encounter in their "white magic" aspects, which, if indicative of his understanding, would make him essentially ignorant of the most practical aspects of this symbology
in other words, if "studying demons" could be somehow conceived as some aspect of "studying self", maybe there is something pretty cool going on w/ some of this "strange" symbolism from ME montheism I...
besides, drA has never seemed like a "reaction-troll" to me altho he certainly can have that aspect b/c he packs a punch when he's feelin groovy, imo
so, i don't care how myth0peotically esoteric j_ful wants to get, here, this is not an answer to how drA is addressing US militarism, imo
{edit-- now i read drA's comment, too) if drA wants to call iran out on some of its cultural practices, what better place than here? maybe some iranians who feel the same was as drA will feels some solidarity from some fringe cartoon character on zH
so, i don't think trying to tag drA as a "demon-worshipping jew" is appropriate, but i'm coming in late and might have missed something here or there, too...
here is an old "teaching story" about: theDevil
guy walks into the bar and orders a beer
strikes up a polite conversation with the only other guy at the bar
the other guy is well-dressed, erudite, polite, and smart; pretty good-lookin, too
so, our hero introduces himself and the other guy responds: i'm theDevil
our guy thinks this a joke! so he sez: but you can't be! theDevil has cloven hooves and horns and a tail and a serpent's tongue, and eyes of eternal hellfire!
aha! says theDevil! i see you have been listening to my detractors!
Cooking a quotation. Typical US citizen.
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The military events of both World Wars have proved anew that the capitalistic countries are paramount also in armaments production. No foreign aggressor can destroy capitalist civilization if it does not destroy itself. Where capitalistic entrepreneurship is allowed to function freely, the fighting forces will always be so well equipped that the biggest armies of the backward peoples will be no match for them. There has even been great exaggeration of the danger of making the formulas for manufacturing "secret" weapons universally known. If war comes again, the searching mind of the capitalistic world will always have a head start on the peoples who merely copy and imitate clumsily.
The peoples who have developed the system of the market economy and cling to it are in every respect superior to all other peoples. The fact that they are eager to preserve peace is not a mark of their weakness and inability to wage war. They love peace because they know that armed conflicts are pernicious and disintegrate the social division of labor. But if war becomes unavoidable, they show their superior efficiency in military affairs too. They repel the barbarian aggressors whatever their numbers may be.
_____________________________________________________
US citizens are bullies by nature.
Bullies never aggress because they withdraw their act of aggression from the equation. Only remain the retaliation reactions. Wich turn into actions, and thus aggression.
Hence the convenient ...
And cooking up a quotation.
everyone has aggression, A2
how they express it is personal, and there may also be nationalistic characteristics, i s'pose
however, it is not b/c "someone is a bully" imo
in my outlook, agression is about control; and pretty much every time, too
so, little kids display it over toys or baubles; it crops up every now and again in families, towns, churches, mosques, clubs, games, nations, and so on
some people are passive, and yet extremely aggressive, also
so, if iran has control issues here, too, we may also see some "aggression" from them and israel, too
iran hasn't been playing around! they've sed fukYou right along, here, too
however, there really isn't a heluva lotta great reasons to pull out a gun and start shooting, imo
rattle those sabres till yer blue in the face, boyz'n'ghouls, just don't clear leather. at isn't worth it to fuk around and "escalate" here and anybody who can't see that and respect that is a fuking shithead
so there!
Your position is clearly stated. Three points to consider however:
1) The cherry picking of positions clearly favors Israel’s interests; America’s Zionist-dominated media is nothing but a drumbeat of anti-Islam scenarios, including completely manufactured stories.
2) Whether “the US or anyone else goes in is another subject altogether” is actually THE SUBJECT we’re talking about: the vicious reigning of fire from the sky on thousands of innocent men, women and children living in a sovereign nation by superpowers…provoked at the worst by mere words.
3) “Throwing in” with Iran’s culture is exactly what Islamic peoples are concerned about. They fear the Lady GaGa culture, the stench and destruction of the sewer which has become America’s culture and policy. In its wake, we are flooded with pornography, obscenity, vulgarity, wanton use of children of all ages for sexual perversion, drugs, abortion, homosexuality (with perverted rights to “adopt” little children), dishonor to parents glorified and protected by media and communal “education” and law, and, the bottom line: the complete destruction of faith and the family.
>culture is exactly what Islamic peoples are concerned about. They fear the Lady GaGa culture, the stench and destruction of the sewer which has become America’s culture
That's absurd. The West has the greatest culture - the pinnacle of human culture developed under the free market.
Just compare haute couture to the burka.
http://www.google.com/search?tbm=isch&hl=en&source=hp&biw=1680&bih=985&q...
http://www.google.com/search?q=burka&hl=en&prmd=imvns&source=lnms&tbm=is...
As von Mises states in Human Action p. 671, "The peoples who have developed the system of the market economy and cling to it are in every respect superior to all other peoples."
The “market culture” of Hollywood porno and media license to censor their critics and exploit and manipulate the public with every advantage going to the banker-financed monopolies is hardly what Mises referred to. The free market that he cherished was a market without government supervision; hardly a description of the complete domination of America’s markets by the tyrants of the New York Federal Reserve Bank.
No one knows what Mises would say if he were here, but my guess is he would echo the words of Ron Paul: Abolish the Fed! And if you think Lady GaGa is free market, you are mistaken. Her sewer performances are completely and utterly protected by Hollywood lobbyists and their paid pals sitting in the Congress of the United States.
“Woe to those who call evil good and good evil, who put darkness for light and light for darkness, who put bitter for sweet and sweet for bitter!” Isaiah 5:20
>No one knows what Mises would say if he were here, but my guess is he would echo the words of Ron Paul: Abolish the Fed!
Not necessarily. Remember, von Mises worked at a government office dealing with public debt and his teacher Eugen von Bohm-Bawerk was finance minister of Austria-Hungary.
Perhaps the job gave him insight.
As Ludwig von Mises points out in “Human Action,’ when one looks at the catastrophic consequences of the great paper money inflations, it’s futile to retort that these catastrophes were brought about by the improper use which the governments made of the powers that credit money and fiat money placed in their hands and that wiser governments would have adopted sounder policies. For money, says Mises, can never be neutral or impartial:
“Whatever a government does depends necessarily upon the rulers’ personal value judgments. It also furthers the interests of some people at the expense of other groups. It never serves…the public welfare… Money is never indifferent. It determines the course of the cash-induced changes in purchasing power. The question is only WHO should make the choice: the people buying and selling on the market, or the government?”
You are mistaking what we have as a market a "free market"
Just compare haute couture to the burka.
____________________________________________________
Ah, ah, made me laugh.
Elitism is an important dimensiion in US citizenism.
Comparing a high end product to gender clothes like Burka?
How many women sport haute couture in US citizen countries?
Could as well compare haute couture to any other common garment to reach the same conclusion.
But hey, another US citizen who thinks he deserves each cent he 'll make.
Just compare haute couture to the burka.
____________________________________________________
Ah, ah, made me laugh.
Elitism is an important dimensiion in US citizenism.
Comparing a high end product to gender clothes like Burka?
How many women sport haute couture in US citizen countries?
Could as well compare haute couture to any other common garment to reach the same conclusion.
But hey, another US citizen who thinks he deserves each cent he 'll make.
Imagine if all the things America does to other countries were done to it. Would Americans still believe their government is not a hypocritical evil predator?! Is this all due to a lack of critical thinking and attention deficit disorder or have we all become narcissistic, egotistical sociopaths?!
YES !
Why fucking lie? Just spit it out: We're going in to get the oil, and we don't give a rat's ass who cares, especially the America public.
Nobody in the right mind believes the drivel emanating from any government agency anymore. Ya'll have cried "Wolf" about 100 too many times.
By the way, thanks for the "heads up". At least I know how to align my portfolio. Other than that, have a happy war -- you'll lose by attrition just like every police action since 'Nam.
I'm done commenting on this utter stupidity.
WTF. Isn't the latest CIA position that Iran is not building nukes?
Absolutely primitive times we live in.
Almost the entire Persian race wants to get rid of the Ayatollahs, all they wanted was a bit of support from the West.
Especially when they saw the first sprouting of the Arab Spring. So what happens, the exact opposite-
They see Syria's despot left to do his evil deeds on his people, a belligerent and thuggish Israel, and big dumb Lemmy USA (read of Mice and Men) getting goaded to war with them, on the spurious grounds that they might be working on some weapon of mass destruction. When I was at college, the story was any student could make a dirty suitcase bomb in his cellar, with some parts from Radio Shack. So how come Iranian Islam hasn't done so before now, we trained enough of their graduates.
There is absolutely no reason for war, not for the dollar, the oil, or the neutron bomb.
Only one nation who managed to get the bomb, has ever used it (Guess who). Everyone else just wants it for the deterrent.
Iran is no different.
Shame on a useless and corrupted American leadership. They'll take us all back to the Stone Age.
All else???
Where is the red line?
How do they protect Hormuz and oil flow for west? Will the Saudis provide ground on boots permanence? Or will US return?
As for Israel...they won't be able to step one foot out of territory without starting an Infatada storm all over again. What happens in Syria and Libya and Egypt is just a prelim view of what might happen if western involvement knee jerks. Powder keg.
the war and murder president is hell bent on more dead bodies, destruction, and terror....he is george bush's twin - george bush is still in the white house...
Too much loose talk of war!
Panetta, check your e-mail for memo.
Just what the Mideast needs, some more good old American Tough Love. Better yet, why don't we just sit this one out. Israel just wants a date to the Prom, let's just say NO...
Who's the aggressor according to this map?
http://www.singledudetravel.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/02/US-military-presence-around-Iran.png?9d7bd4
A picture is worth a thousand words; nay, a million words. This map posted on every wall and pole in America coupled with posters of our Stalinesque dear leaders would bring instant understanding, and honesty, to all Americans - whether or not they supported these butchers of innocents.
One isn’t supposed to say it, but America sealed her fate when, under the Clinton Administration, “the White House, the Senate, and much of the American media” (and now the House of Representatives and soon to be the U.S. Supreme Court) fell into and are now held, as the Israelis put it, “in our hands.”
This statement came from Israeli columnist Ari Shavit in an article reprinted from the Israel newspaper Haaretz in the May 27, 1996 issue of the New York Times as he reflected sorrowfully on the wanton Israeli killing of more than 100 Lebanese civilians that April. Bill Clinton, “the lover of peace,” had raised no protest when the Israelis drove 400,000 innocent Lebanese out of their homes in “retaliation” for rockets launched into Israel, wounding one Israeli.
Nothing, nothing brightens my day like the educated sarcasm this site presents.
Ah, thank you all.
O yes, fuck Israel. I was in the refugee camps in Gaza in 1975 and little has changed. The natives of Palestine get screwed over and over because some retard from Brooklyn wants a subsidized condo in the West Bank, at US taxpayer expense ultimately. They are the ultimate bastards, the Likudniks, and one can only wonder why the US government panders to them. Israel is a shitty little country and them are killing the US.
A country founded upon the will "Of the People" should never go to war unless the People so desire. The People do not desire war with Iran. This country's foundation has shifted; the People's will is being refuted.
Or, the meaning of The People has weirdly changed.
For you guys that enjoy toys and playing war games
Tactics and Strategy at the Strait of HormuzHere is the real threat: end to the Anglo-American central bank monopoly
Iran presses ahead with dollar attack Last week, the Tehran Times noted that the Iranian oil bourse will start trading oil in currencies other than the dollar from March 20. This long-planned move is part of President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad’s vision of economic war with the west.http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/commodities/9077600/Iran-presses-ahead-with-dollar-attack.html
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stick yer "good Hearted" bullshit up yer ass!
give them an extra $100 for being a moron, BiCh!
tell them it's from slewie!
Then prepare for War.
One way or another, this will be settled.