This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

In A Paper System, All Assets Are Backed by the Treasury Bond

Tyler Durden's picture





 

Submitted and © by Keith Weiner, president of the Gold Standard Institute

In A Paper System, All Assets Are Backed by the Treasury Bond

In a gold-based monetary system, every asset is ultimately backed by gold.  This does not mean that every debtor (including banks) keeps the full amount of its liability in gold coin just lying around.  Why would one bother to borrow if one did not need the money?

It means that every asset generates a gold income and every asset could be liquidated for gold, if necessary.  If a debtor declares bankruptcy, the creditor may take losses.  But he can rely on the gold income stream for each asset or if need be he can sell the asset for gold.

In a gold-based monetary system, money is gold and gold is money.  Money cannot disappear; it does not go “poof”.  Bad credit can be defaulted and must be written off.  But money merely changes hands.

In a gold system, the promise of the gold coin is the only reason why anyone extends credit in the first place.  Since 1913, there was a step-by-step evolution to our present irredeemable paper system.  Now creditors are forced to accept the government’s scrip as payment in full.  It continues to work (for the moment) partly because of inertia, but mostly because there is (still) good credit behind the dollar.

Let’s look deeper at what backs the money in the present irredeemable paper system.  Start by considering this brief anecdote.  Joe buys some equipment from John, to be paid Net 30.  We say that Joe owes John $10,000.  Next month, Joe comes back and gives the money to John.  Joe is out of debt, but has the debt been extinguished?

No.  The debt has been transferred.  Now the Federal Reserve owes John the money!  Surprised?  Don’t be.

The dollar is the liability of the Fed.

The Fed, like every bank, must balance liabilities and assets.  There is even a technical term for when they have liabilities without matching assets.  “Bankrupt.”  How does the Fed itself balance its liabilities?

The Treasury bond is the asset of the Fed.

Getting back to John, he deposits the money in the bank.  The result is that the bank owes John the money, and the Fed owes the bank the money.  The banks will typically buy Treasury bonds because they are “safe” and they pay a yield.  In this case, the Treasury owes the bank the money.

Notice that whether the bank holds Treasury bonds directly, or whether it holds dollars that are the liability of the Fed backed by Treasury bonds as the asset, the Treasury bond ultimately backs the bank.  And thus the Treasury bond ultimately back’s John’s asset, which is the deposit account.

The same principle holds true for other assets.  A stock (equity) is valued based on the expected flow of dollars it will generate in the future.  In addition, every company is obliged to hold dollars in a bank to cover payroll, pay suppliers, etc.  Few companies could survive one minute past the default of their banks on these deposit accounts.

If this all seems perverse, that is because it is!  The dollar is backed by the Treasury bond, and the Treasury bond is paid in dollars.  It is circular, self-referential, and it is a ponzi scheme.

Under gold, the metal itself is the risk-free asset.   This is not a mere definition, but an observation about reality.  Gold simply is.  It is not a promise and therefore cannot default.  But under paper, the Treasury bond is defined as the risk-free asset.  Obviously, one cannot eliminate risk by defining it out of existence.

It is important to emphasize that if a party’s asset goes bad—especially with the leverage employed today—it will be forced to default on its liability.  By the design of the system, its financial assets are someone else’s liabilities (and its other assets depend on the liabilities of the Treasury).  The ultimate “someone else” is the Treasury in all cases.  When they default, all financial assets will be wiped out.  This means all debtors will default.  This means all creditors will take total losses.  Creditors include not only corporate employers, but savers, pensioners, annuitants, etc.

The next time someone blurts out that the dollar works just as well as gold (or better than gold!), an explanation of this should shut him up.

 


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:35 | Link to Comment Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

In other words they are backed by nothing

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:36 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

Beat me to it!

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:37 | Link to Comment Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

Great minds think alike :-)

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:45 | Link to Comment Dalago
Dalago's picture

The quickest way to get out this fiasco is to put interest rates to 10%.  Ben Ber-fucking-nancy study the wrong depression.  What a human wasteland.  Depression of 1920 is the correct one: http://mises.org/daily/3788/

 

"What country can preserve its liberties if its rulers are not warned from time to time that their people preserve the spirit of resistance?"  - Thomas Jefferson

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:47 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

Money backed by debt is not backed by nothing, it's backed by less than nothing, since debt is a negative.  You actually incur liability by holding debt-backed fiat.  On a long enough timeline...

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:02 | Link to Comment iDealMeat
iDealMeat's picture

Sure its somthin..  Your debt is currently $ 139,919.00    You're  good for it right redpill??   So we can consider that debt an asset..

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:04 | Link to Comment resurger
resurger's picture

The bankers disagree with your statment!

When interset is negative

Interest Margin = Interest Received (Postive) - Interst Paid (Postive)

The Interest Margin will be higher which translates to 30 bedroom houses, yachts and bollingers.

I just love this Clip "It explains the ponzi 100%"

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/behold-feds-takeover-bond-market

When the interst is all negative, the sheeple will wake up and say

"Give me whats left of my money.."

Now the depositors who have deposits worth Trillions and Billions of dollars, there will be the real problem, will they be happy to place them in Zimbabwe?!

Is it still gonna be a flight to safety for the return of capital and shrugging the return on capital.

Gold is FTMFW

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:11 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

asset appreciation is backed by hope

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:33 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

As in, I hope that collateral is good.
Or he hopes I'll pay him Tuesday for the hamburger today.

That kinda hope?

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:38 | Link to Comment metastar
metastar's picture

No,

Assets are backed by Treasury Bonds
Treasury Bonds are backed by Citizen Slaves
Citizen Slaves are backed by Government guns pointed at their heads.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 17:10 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

hope...as in hope that there is a great fool to pay MORE and get LESS

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 19:13 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

Exactly.

Dollars are ultimately backed by oil which can only be paid for in USD, and the coerced extraction of value from citizens (mainly US) who have to work to get paid in them.

If foreign exporters decide they don't want to exchange value for our paper, then all those dollars out there start flooding home and we have a big problem.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 03:05 | Link to Comment iinthesky
iinthesky's picture

To my knowledge, the banks of their own volition do not create the 'credit'' that they loan you. They need your signature on a mort-gage (Death Bond) or some such. Then they proceed to do their accounting tricks and effectively loan you back your own credit. According to the federal reserve's own documents they take the Promissory Notes and deposit them into accounts they create as CASH. They proceed to transfer that cash over to a new account from which a check is drawn and handed right back to you. I believe they like to wordsmith this into 'Origination' and they even charge you to do it. This is overly simplified with the advent of securitization also known as fraud. In any case, now you allegedly owe these fucking clerks (Clerks/Clerics/Priesthood hmmm?) your life's blood and energy. Really?!?

Think about it! Who is the original creditor here in respect to the scumbag banksters? YOU ARE! What a fucking scam! Unreal!

See, the system has gotten wise to us getting wise to them. If you go to a small local or regional bank and ask them about this (I have done this), even if you speak to the CFO of a small commercial bank (I have done this too), they will look at you like you are insane if you ask the wrong questions or explain how this all works. I'm not sure why this is but pondering upon it I suspect that the large globalist money center banks are the only ones who can pull this money conjuring trick. You know, the ones who own the Fed and BOE and BOJ etc. ad nauseum. They then funnel that cash down to their warehouse lending arms or bigger regional systems who in turn make 'loans' to smaller commercial banks at interest who in turn 'loan' you money. This is done to create the illusion of legitimacy because the smaller banks can then claim they actually did make a loan and tendered valueable consideration as their end of the contract. This has the added effect of insulating the treasonous treacherous scumbags traficking in human souls; these are vampires engaging in the seditious overthrow of the United States of America, and their crimes are LEGION!

I don't know if this is actually how it works but like I said, I suspect it is this or some variation of this theme. I would imagine that even the comercial branch offices of the money center banks are seperated and compartmentalized so that those franchisees must pay the LIEbor or the prime rate or whatever rate as well to 'corporate HQ'.

Then, adding insult to injury, granted that the financial system more or less runs government, and that government today believes quite strongly, as did Comrade Lenin, that Government has a monopoly on force, if the system goes off course, YOU and I get to foot the fucking bill. And we are so blind, most of us, that we are selling our own children into slavery, happily and willingly. So many useful idiots react to the idea of a world without income taxes with counter arguments like the roads would disintegrate and there would be spontanious flaming inferno's that would burn cities to the ground and that the wonderful militarized riot gear clad steroided out cops would not provide their merciful protection (a.k.a. shooting you in the head while handcuffed in the back of a squad car for having a bag of weed in your pocket). The mere mention of the possibility sends people into fits of raging frothing sometimes savage outbursts of socialist fervor. It is stunning!

"My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me...."

Fuckin-A-men

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 08:45 | Link to Comment Juan Wild
Juan Wild's picture

Amen to that. You oughta see the vapid looks I get when I try to explain this to someone while waiting at the bank. They look at me like I have lobsters growing out of my head or something.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:33 | Link to Comment diogeneslaertius
diogeneslaertius's picture

money backed by debt is a congame

 

all currency that goes into circulation has debt attached, an inherently, mathematically unsustainable vector- but of course that was the point of it all wasnt it?

 

the point of the ponzi scheme is to rope people in and then implode them

 

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 17:12 | Link to Comment AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

but when everyone plays the same con game......you get today's mess...

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 19:10 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Money backed by debt...

Real money doesn't have to be backed by anything.  Its value is intrinsic.

Paper currency isn't money.  It's a claim check for money when it's redeemable for gold, silver, etc.

When it's not redeemable for anything, it's just a derivative.  A naked derivative, meaning there is no underlying asset.  

FRNs aren't backed by treasury bonds. They're not backed by anything.  It doesn't matter what's on the asset side of Fed's balance sheet, you can't exchange a 10 dollar FRN for any of it.

What if the Fed went bankrupt?  Then your FRNs would be worthless.   You wouldn't be entitled to anything on the asset side of Fed's balance sheet.

FRNs are not Fed stock.  You don't have any ownership stake in the Fed when you hold FRNs.

FRNs are bank notes.  But what does "bank note" mean?  It really doesn't mean anything.  There is no promise to pay anything, like a traditional note would have.

Some people say FRNs are "debt money".  That's wrong too.  They're not money, and there's no debt associated with them.  There's no promise to pay anything.

Technically they're worthless pieces of paper.  They have no intrinsic value, and there's nothing associated with them, no promise to pay anything upon demand.

The only half way appropriate thing to call them is a derivative. A naked derivative, since there's nothing underlying them.

They're like Monopoly money.  They have value only in that game.  Nowhere else.

FRNs have value only in the Fed's game.  Whereever that game is being played. 

Right now Fed's game is being played all over the world.  FRN is "world reserve currency".

But some nations are starting to move away from that game.  Because they see the Fed printing boatloads of those FRNs, diluting whatever value they have.

They don't wana play Fed's game anymore, and they're moving away from Fed's "monoply money" used in that game.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 19:39 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

Sorry, wrong.

FRNs, at the very least, represent subdivisions of (and are thus worth) whatever value can be extracted by the oligarchy that issues them (in this case, the US government - and, yes, I know the Fed isn't part of the US govt, but the US govt is definitely part of the Fed) from the people who are obliged to create and exchange value for them so they can meet their tax obligations.

It's no different from the old tally-stick system. Transferable debt becomes money for the same reason commodities like gold* and silver became mandatory in most civilisations - because if you're unable to cough up the requisite amount of it you'll be thrown into a cage (or worse) by our beloved overlords. Yes, gold and silver are preferred and naturally arise as money in free trade, but so what?

Unlike tallysticks, what FRNs also have going for them, is the fact our satraps in the middle east will accept them for civilization's lifeblood - oil.

Is it good money? No. Is it manipulable and the product of coercive knavery? Yes, but that's beside the point: debt can be money, and it has as much value as its issuer can coerce from its citizens and client states and their citizens. Betting on the collapse of FRNs is betting on the end of the US empire - the two are inextricably linked.

*if you can call something with a 60:1 stock to flow ratio a 'commodity'

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 22:18 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Sorry, wrong.

About what?  I made several points in my comment.

 

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 11:31 | Link to Comment PiratePawpaw
PiratePawpaw's picture

"Betting on the collapse of FRNs is betting on the end of the US empire - the two are inextricably linked."..........exactly

All empires end, and in most cases the citizens dont recognize the collapse untill they are well into it. This one will be no different.

The FRN will end up in curio cabinets along with Talents, ReichMarks, Confederate Dollars etc...

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 00:55 | Link to Comment FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I used to think that. However, when debt is properly done the debt is backed by an asset. When someone builds a house or car there is new product on the market that was not there before. When a bank creates money (fractional reserve banking) then there should be an approximate one to one correlation in money and assets. To hedge the loan the banks used to require something down. Let's say you have a no money down VA loan and you borrow $300k to buy a new home. There is new debt of 300k versus an asset of 300k. New products and money have come into the world.

What is true is that we are issuing money with no assets and issuing more money with depreciating assets. This leads to an economic abyss and destruction of value. Price discover gets ever more painful.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 16:41 | Link to Comment BigJim
BigJim's picture

You raise an interesting point re: creation of new money to buy 'new' assets.

Let's think this through. The house (say) is created via land (ie, materials) and labour (and management etc). If these are paid for on credit, the money is created via fractional reserve lending. Then, when the house is purchased, that money is destroyed but new money is created for the purchaser, who will pay the money back (say, over thirty years). So... we have a 'new' thirty year old house, and the new money that was created to pay for it has been destroyed.

Versus.. paying it all from existing savings; then that new money would never have been created.

So, what happens, is that the money supply increases to match the purchase of the new asset (which is inflationary), and then shrinks when the debt is paid off (deflationary), versus a slight deflationary effect when new stuff is created, and new money to pay for it, isn't.

If the money supply were only expanded to pay for literally new assets, and then contracted when the new asset is no longer of any use, then the overall monetary effect would be neutral (of course, in the case of houses... they tend to last much longer than the period of credit)

What you're overlooking, however, is that a lot of the value of the 'land' (ie, materials) for the product may have already been reflected in the money supply. So, for instance, when I take out a loan for $300,000 to buy that new house, the increase in the money supply isn't just reflecting the increase in value of assembling all the building materials on an existing plot of land, which may only be something like 20% of the final price; the money created is for the total outright price, despite the fact that only 20% of its economic value is 'new'.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:53 | Link to Comment WTF_247
WTF_247's picture

Impossible to do that.

The govt has run up so much debt they cannot afford to pay 5x the interest.  16T x 10% = 1.6T in interest.  We only collect 2.5T in taxes.  Now some of it would be delayed because existing bonds will last 5-7 years before needing to be refunded.  But a significant portion of the debt is rolled over weekly.  This would cause an immediate cash problem at the govt which could only be solved by even more aggressive deficit spending.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:54 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

We can fix that, just end the Fed and "vanish" their treasury holdings.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:34 | Link to Comment diogeneslaertius
diogeneslaertius's picture

it really is that simple, we just need the political will to do it

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:56 | Link to Comment JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

John "Vaporizer" Corzine is the man for the job.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 22:53 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

We can fix that, just end the Fed and "vanish" their treasury holdings.

You're dreaming of course.  It won't happen in the real world.

Yea there's a lot of "should'a - would'a - could'a" out there, things that should happen.  But they won't.  You know it.  I know it.  Everybody knows it.

I prefer to live in the real world where the Fed will go right on doing what they're doing.

The real world outcome is massive currency printing, hyperinflation, then currency collapse.  It's gone that way for every fiat currency, we're on that path now, this one will go the same way.

That $16 trillion government debt?  It won't be defaulted on.  It will be debased away.  When the dollar collapses, becomes worthless, that $16 trillion debt becomes worthless too, because it's payable in dollars ...worthless dollars by then.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 00:09 | Link to Comment Whiner
Whiner's picture

Look here, Geezer. I am The Bearnanke. I am the worlds reserve currency. You hear me? You can't buy oil without me! Get your head on straight, you frigging sheeple spit. I own the world's biggest damn printing press and frigging helicopters out my ass! I wrote the f**king book on the depression. I will print, damn you, print, print, print! The world will bow down to me. Barry's got the only military to back my Empire of Money. Can you say "House of Saudi" blockhead? They will pump, pump, pump like a horny camel. You ever seen that? Get that smile off your face, and get religion today, debtslave! I will naked short, crush your frigging GOLD, MF, until you bleed tungsten! My Open Markets Committee will, buy, buy, buy and my PDs will hand you your golden egg head so bad you will crap your pants and beg for your own FRNs. Repeat after me, fool, " The real world has no-NO f--cking choice. They gotta print when I print." China can go pound sand.I own them. Can you Say "OWN THEM"? Say it or I'll short your miners to hell. I own you too, so grovel, MF. You got nowhere to hide. (Telephone ringtone-"I Did It My way") Hold on a minute. "Jamie, buy'em at the open, low-lower, lower... Yeah there, F--ck the indirects, I gottem' drilled.) where was I geezer? Oh yeah I am The Bearnanke. S&P 15 K by election. Bots. I said, "Bots!" sniffin your ass! Why don't you short it?

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:01 | Link to Comment Vincent Vega
Vincent Vega's picture

Pay interest? They can't even afford to repay the principal. Not no way, not no how, not never ever gonna happen.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 00:21 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Who cares about the principal?   They don't.  They created the shit out of thin air anyway.

No, they just want that interest.  It's where they make money.  Interest income.  Profit. 

Don't you know anything about bank accounting?  Income and profit comes from INTEREST, not principal.

No, they don't give a fuck about the principal.  They created it out of thin freikin air anyway.

They'd rather keep that principal out there earning interest forever ...and keep loaning out more principal ...also created out of thin air ...and earn more interest.

 

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 17:46 | Link to Comment Arnold Ziffel
Arnold Ziffel's picture
When money dies: The nightmare of the Weimar collapse   Adam Fergusson  (Author)below in pdf forn those quiet nights to rea dby the fireplace): http://www.goldonomic.com/When%20Money%20Dies.pdf


Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:36 | Link to Comment resurger
resurger's picture

In other words they are backed by nothing

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:40 | Link to Comment Kyron95131
Kyron95131's picture

its backed by unicorn smiles, sun shine dreams, and a military that dwarf's the next 26 nations cumulative military combine.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:17 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

Speaking of which, my 3 year old won't stop playing Robot Unicorn Attack.  She isn't very good, so the Erasure song they use for a soundtrack starts over from the begining every. 10. seconds.  I'm thinking some of these central bankers deserve the same treatment, waterboarding ain't got shit on the first 20 bars of "Always" looped perpetually.

 

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:35 | Link to Comment diogeneslaertius
diogeneslaertius's picture

UNICORMS :D !?

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:53 | Link to Comment Solon the Destroyer
Solon the Destroyer's picture

Well I wouldn't call coerced labour from government dominated tax slaves "nothing" exactly. 

But that don't make it right and proper neither.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:11 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Yep, the barrel of a gun is hardly "nothing."

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 20:04 | Link to Comment cynicalskeptic
cynicalskeptic's picture

And Predator drones that can blow you into a million pieces - wherever you are in the world - are even better!!!!     

We've entered a Bizzaroworld where it's the DEBTOR threatening to break legs if other won't continue to lend him more money to squander (or sell him oil and other good things at dirt cheap prices).

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:26 | Link to Comment WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

No true, they are backed by you the taxpayer. I think it is a pretty good backing, the population is paying taxes so they can have a currency isn t that nice? The ruler lives off of the population in this paper system. If people revolt, the ruler and the currency fall together. In a non-paper system, with no central bank, there is a lot less that the population have to pay to use a currency (bank bills). Hong-Kong is close to that system.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 18:12 | Link to Comment Solarman
Solarman's picture

Not quite true, they are backed by the IRS and the US Military, and their ability to extract assets or labor, here or abroad.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 19:38 | Link to Comment Kreditanstalt
Kreditanstalt's picture

Not backed by "nothing"...dollars are backed, ultimately, by the government gun.  Tax (forced labor) WILL be extracted from you and me.

The shoddy truth of our system is that the promises are backed by BRUTE FORCE,

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 15:47 | Link to Comment RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

I'm just going to buy treasuries and cut out the middleman.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:37 | Link to Comment malikai
malikai's picture

.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:38 | Link to Comment Newsboy
Newsboy's picture

No, it's GOLD that is "backed by nothing", if you will but recall the Canadian newsgirl quote from last winter...

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:40 | Link to Comment Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

What do Canadian girls know. Gold is backed by God.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:49 | Link to Comment Solon the Destroyer
Solon the Destroyer's picture

But God disappears in a *puff* of logic.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:52 | Link to Comment Paul Atreides
Paul Atreides's picture

Now there's a man who really knows where his towel is!

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:54 | Link to Comment Abraxas
Abraxas's picture

Not this God, he doesn't. Not the Mammon.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:59 | Link to Comment Turin Turambar
Turin Turambar's picture

Uh, sure.  Get back to me AFTER you've done a transcendental critique on the pretended autonomy of theoretical thought.

Some people think they are so clever; yet, they remain completely clueless as to the anti-intellectual nature of their beliefs, and to top it all off many of their "philosophies" are actually "anti-philosophies."

and to think I was taught that Dodo birds were extinct!  Well, that's public education for you!  lol

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 17:50 | Link to Comment smiler03
smiler03's picture

It's not hard to understand that you talk shite about shite.

edit: I forgot the /s and the applause

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:04 | Link to Comment brace_brace_brace
brace_brace_brace's picture

Gold and silver are not native to earth. They came from out of space. That is why you find silver where you find gold. And it is finite amount. That is why gold is Godly, heavenly. And so is silver. 

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:31 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Huh?

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 16:44 | Link to Comment Likstane
Likstane's picture

You didn't understand that?  WTF?  Are you stoopid?

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:27 | Link to Comment Solon the Destroyer
Solon the Destroyer's picture

But God disappears in a *puff* of logic.

-5 for that?  Really?  Only the Muad'Dib gets the Hitchhiker's Guide reference?

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:58 | Link to Comment JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Haggai 2:8: Mine is the silver and mine the gold, says the LORD of hosts.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 01:24 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Sorry Mr. Haggai, God's (alledged) ownership has been hypothecated to international bankers, national governments, central banks, various and sundry other criminals, and boatloads of individual dealers, collectors, investors, etc.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 16:00 | Link to Comment Pool Shark
Pool Shark's picture

 

 

Greenie on ya.

(Oh, and also three ningi's and a couple Pu's...)

 

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 16:03 | Link to Comment Gavrikon
Gavrikon's picture

Perhaps they got it but didn't like it? 

Now, please pardon me while I go fix myself a nice pangalactic gargleblaster.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:43 | Link to Comment resurger
resurger's picture

Size does matter,

When i get my gold back up, an ingot in your head will sure drop you dead!

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:40 | Link to Comment Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

The arguments and explanations are too simplisitc in my taste. 

 

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:21 | Link to Comment zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Ok, here is not a very simplistic way to understand it.

 

A person works in a mine and dig all day and get a "BitOfGold" as a reward for his whole day's work. He goes to a carpenter's shop and wants to buy a wooden chair. Carpenter knows that he got this "BitOfGold" after a whole day of hard work. Carpenter sells him the chair for that "BitOfGold" because he knows he spent a whole day to make this chair. Carpenter goes to the food shop and buy a sack of rice with that "BitOfGold" and shop keeper knows this "BitOfGold" is backed by a whole day's of hard work and this "BitOfGold" is not perishable and cannot be duplicated.

Here comes a Joo (FED) and convince them that they can exchange their "BitOfGold" with this piece of paper and can get back their "BitOfGold" any time, " I promise" (April 5, 1933). Now this Joo start printing  that piece of paper and do the same promise to a lot of people. Shopkeeper see a lot of people(bankers) who have never worked a day and have same piece of paper so he refused to sell sack of rice for the same piece of paper and demands more piece of papers as he understands that it doesn't take a whole day's work to make one FRN confetti ( hyperinflation).

Does this helps?

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 15:49 | Link to Comment RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

A wooden chair = a bag of rice? What fucked up nation do you live in?

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:40 | Link to Comment Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

Is that why they call it Jew Confetti?

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:46 | Link to Comment PiratePawpaw
PiratePawpaw's picture

Looks like Soros thinks stocks have topped.

Soros sells equities and buys gold even as stock markets reach four year highs

Oddly enough, he didnt buy Treasury's though.....

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:51 | Link to Comment XitSam
XitSam's picture

Soros didn't buy gold. He bought GLD.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 22:14 | Link to Comment PMakoi
PMakoi's picture

That is the coming chicanery, the "next" gold money equivalent.  In order for the "new world-o" money sytem to work for gents like Soros, THEIR wealth can't take a haircut.  A ruling will be made that GLD certificate paper is "worth" the same as physical.  Simple edict.  The "new world-o" will be good for all debts public and private.  Physical gold??? That barbarous relic???  Sheeple, errr. I mean people... turn in that heavy gold for these new pieces of paper.  Trust us, we're the Government.

sarc off maybe 

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:43 | Link to Comment suckerfishzilla
suckerfishzilla's picture

Gold is pretty.  It's a pretty good unit of account as well.  There are other commodities that can be used as a unit of account.  All the bankers are piling into Gold.  They are really bad company to keep if you ask me.   

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:45 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

Even if you have a gold standard, if you allow banks to keep fractional reserves, you end up in the same place.

If credit is as freely accepted as coin, you end up in the same place, whether the base is gold, seashells, treasuries, or dog poop.

Fractional reserve banking is the real problem, not what backs the currency.

pods

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:45 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

whats with all these gold institute's? I want one.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:46 | Link to Comment hannah
hannah's picture

funny how people hate credit but without it, you would have to actually pay cash with the actual money/gold you possess....so it would take people 20 years to save a downpayment for a house...oh wait...fuck i cant borrow the 80% remaining. so i could never own a home or buy a car or a washing machine.....!

creadit has to exist in a modern world.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:54 | Link to Comment hack3434
hack3434's picture

Prices would adjust accordingly. 

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:56 | Link to Comment Bartanist
Bartanist's picture

I don't think that people hate credit so much as the unfair method of resolution of credit and the people who create money and benefit from an unfair credit system.

A core issue is that banks create money out of thin air ... and yet, they claim that through their action of creating money out of thin air they not only get to collect interest on the money that cost them nothing to produce, they also get first claim on the assets that the money created out of thin air is secured against.

What did they do to deserve that claim on the assets? All they did was create money out of thin air. That seems very wrong. It is a broken system.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 02:56 | Link to Comment iinthesky
iinthesky's picture

Yep.. that pretty much sums it up!

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:56 | Link to Comment Chaffinch
Chaffinch's picture

Too much easy credit has given us ridiculously over- inflated house prices.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:06 | Link to Comment LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

You are an idiot.  While credit is useful, you have chosen to ignore the issues of collateral and risk.

If the underlying collateral is bogus, you have a big fucking problem.

Moreover, if you take out the credit you should suffer the consequences if the risk that YOU took does not work out. The taxpayer  should not have to pay back your debtors.

In other words credit only works if there are real consequence for bad behavior.  Where the fuck is John Corzine asshole?  why the fuck did I have to bailout wall street, big banks, and GM? Let the owners management and shareholders (who benefitted from the credit) pay back the creditors next time you stupid fuck.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 19:52 | Link to Comment Clycntct
Clycntct's picture

Forgive me Lawsofphysics, for I have but one + to give.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:58 | Link to Comment pods
pods's picture

You have actually hit upon a point in your anti-gold rant.

How to finance large purchases?

Without credit, you could only increase your purchasing power by how much you increase your productivity and store as savings.  

With unbacked credit issuance, you end up with a system that will mathematically collapse if it does not keep expanding exponentially if that credit is issued with interest attached.

pods

 

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:05 | Link to Comment PiratePawpaw
PiratePawpaw's picture

I think they used something called "collateral".

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 00:08 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Credit isn't the problem.  You can have a gold / silver redeemable currency and still have credit.

But you can't have fractional reserve credit in a gold / silver redeemable currency.  Reserves have to be 100%, which means you can't loan out more currency than you have gold / silver reserves for, because anyone could bring that loaned currency into the bank and want their gold / silver.

Actually you could loan out more currency than you have gold / silver reserves for.  But you take a risk.  If everyone brings their currency in to redeem it for the physical, you don't have enough, your fraud is exposed, your bank collapses, the unruly crowd takes you out and hangs you ...as they should.

No, credit isn't the problem.  Fractional reserve lending is the problem.

Now we have no-reserve lending.  A bank can print up as much currency as they want and loan it out because the currency isn't redeemable for anything.

The only limit on how much they print up and loan out is Fed regulations.  Fed says they're limited to X times deposits.

But it's just a game.  It could be 5 times deposits, 10 times deposits, 100 times deposits, it doesn't matter, because the currency isn't redeemable for anything.  

Fed puts an "X times deposits" limit on it simply to keep the money supply from expanding too rapidly

...and so THEY can print trillions of dollars and loan it to the government, buddy crony bankers, other central banks, etc.

Yea, the reason Fed limits how much currency member banks can print and loan out is so THE FED can print MOUNTAINS of it and loan it or give it to whomever they want, without destroying the currency.

Since '08 the Fed has (secretly) printed $27 friekin trillion and given it to all manner of banks here and abroad.

Fed has no reserve limit.  They can flood the world with dollars if they want to.  And they are, behind the scenes. 

No, it doesn't show up on their balance sheet.  Only about 1/10 of it shows up on their balance sheet.

There's TRILLIONS of dollars floating around out there that will never appear on Fed's balance sheet.

Gold / silver redeemability brings ACCOUNTABITLY to the currency.  The amount of currency in existence cannot exceed the amount of gold / silver held in reserve.

But a non-redeemable currency has NO ACCOUNTABILITY.   NO checks and balances.  You can print it till it floods the world ...wheneupon it becomes WORTHLESS.

Bernanke HIMSELF said in 2002 a currency has value only when it is LIMITED IN SUPPLY.

Gold / silver redeemability imposes that limit. 

Take away redeemability and there's NO limit, you can flood the world with the stuff.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 04:34 | Link to Comment Amagnonx
Amagnonx's picture

Credit will always exist, people will always borrow things - but the bottom line is that it needs to be 'things' - not vacuum, which is what you get in a fractional reserve system.

 

You cannot morally lend things which you dont own - that is the basic problem with the current system.  It is fraudulent and dishonest, because when a bank creates new money, by monetizing an asset (an asset it has no moral right to claim any interest in) - it simply steals the VALUE (of the loan) from the existing money supply, held by savers and users of the currency.

 

So it is lending something it doesnt have, value it appropriates from people who already hold cash - its counterfeiting, period.  The banks then go one step further, and claim the underlying asset as 'collateral' against the value of the loan, but the value in the loan was something they just stole from other people.  They first steal value from holders of cash, then claim a real asset with it, and further claim it needs to be repaid.

 

Fractional reserve banking is purely fraud.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:49 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Gold is not money by nature, but money by nature is gold.

- Karl Marx

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:51 | Link to Comment Bartanist
Bartanist's picture

So, when the US government defaults, all holders of treasuries get to divvy up the assets of the government, right?

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:59 | Link to Comment Getting Old Sucks
Getting Old Sucks's picture

Yeah, right.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:07 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

9mm at a time.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:13 | Link to Comment shovelhead
shovelhead's picture

You get Nancy Pelosi.

She can wash your dishes.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:29 | Link to Comment knukles
knukles's picture

Now that is funny.  :)

 

Who gets Harry Reid?

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:55 | Link to Comment dootyfree
dootyfree's picture

Great!  In  a roundabout way, you've just explained why QE is nothing more than an asset swap and meaningless.  Good Job.

It would be better stated as All assets are backed by the country printing the Treasury bonds.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:56 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I basically wrote this article on my blog last night, but my focus was a rising rate environment, because I have covered the asset = liability forever. 

This is a fine article, but if anyone wants the better writ version just check out my blog.  I kill anything Tyler posts because my posts frontrun his and they are much better.

I also have no skin in the game, like the authors Tyler posts.  Gold institutions, bank analysis, etc all have skin in the game.  This guy wants you to buy gold so he makes money.  Keiser wants to sell you silver coins with huge premiums.  Bidermon wants you to invest in his fund.  Same with Rosie, juanjah, etc.

Just buy silver for the sake of buying silver, damn it.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:08 | Link to Comment Getting Old Sucks
Getting Old Sucks's picture

That's not nice.  Why don't you be nice?

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:13 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I felt like destroying something beautiful.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:55 | Link to Comment Getting Old Sucks
Getting Old Sucks's picture

There's a tiny island called Yap out in the Pacific Ocean. Economists love it because it helps answer this really basic question: What is money?

There's no gold or silver on Yap. But hundreds of years ago, explorers from Yap found limestone deposits on an island hundreds of miles away. And they carved this limestone into huge stone discs, which they brought back across the sea on their small bamboo boats.

It's unclear if these stones started as money. But at some point the people on Yap realized what most societies realize. They needed something that everyone agrees you can use to pay for stuff.

And like many societies, the people of Yap took the thing they had that was pretty — their version of gold — and decided that was money.

 

A piece of stone money was really valuable; you wouldn't use it for some everyday purchase. You'd use it for something big — a daughter's dowry, say.

"If somebody was in real dire straits, and something happened to their crop of food or they were running low on provisions and they had some stone money, they might trade," says Scott Fitzpatrick, an anthropologist at North Carolina State University who is an expert on Yap.

One key thing about this money: It was really heavy. A big piece could weigh more than a car.

As a result, this very concrete form of money quickly made the jump to being something very abstract.

"They often talk about the stones themselves not changing hands at all," Fitzpatrick says. "In fact, most of the time they wouldn't."

So imagine there's this great big stone disc sitting in a village. One person gives it to another person. But the stone doesn't move. It's just that everybody in the village knows the stone now has a new owner.

In fact, the stone doesn't even need to be on the island to count as money.

One time, according to the island's oral tradition, a work crew was bringing was bringing a giant stone coin back to yap on a boat. And just before they got back to the island, they hit a big storm. The stone wound up on the bottom of the ocean.

The crew made it back to the island and told everybody what happened. And everybody decided that the piece of stone money was still good — even though it was on the bottom of the ocean.

"So somebody today owns this piece of stone money, even though nobody's seen it for over 100 years or more," Fitzgerald says.

This system, in the end, feels really familiar. If you go online to pay your electric bill, what's really changing in the world?

Some digits in your bank account get shifted around, along with some digits in the power company's bank account.

In other words, that stone money on the bottom of the ocean that you used to own now belongs to the power company

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2011/02/15/131934618/the-island-of-stone-money

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 16:06 | Link to Comment XitSam
XitSam's picture

Hey guys, instead of actually carving up one of those giant stones, hauling it down to shore, loading it on the boat, rowing that extra weight back to Yap ... let's just say that we did, and a big storm came up and washed it overboard.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 01:03 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Interesting story. 

Yep, anything can be designated money as long as everyone agrees it's money.

Now suppose a schrewd Yapian with one of those huge stone "coins" decides to print up some "official ownership notes" and uses 5 of them to buy this or that?

Now he has 5 times what that huge stone "coin" is worth in other things, and 5 different people now own that huge stone "coin".

Long as nobody figures it out, everything's cool.

But what if 3 of those people decide they wana move their "coin" to their house?   Now he has problems.  His fraud is exposed.  In that culture, who knows, they might take him out and hang him.

Let's take it a step further now.

Suppose "official ownership notes" become commonplace.  Nobody cares about the actual stone coins anymore.

Now the "official ownership note" printers have a field day, printing up many "official ownership notes", using them to buy up huge amounts of stuff.

Yapians start noticing a lot of OONs circulating now, and start raising their prices.

That's inflation ...the Yapian version.

What went wrong? 

People started ignoring the physical thing, focusing on those paper OONs.

The physical thing, the huge stone "coin", was a check & balance on the number of OONs floating around.

When people started ignoring it, the check & balance disappeared, removing the limit on how many OONs could exist.

That's currency theory 101 ...the simple Yapian example.

 

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:55 | Link to Comment Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

Question. What do you call the time period after all the fraud starts to become exposed for the epidemic that it is but hasn't started to be fully digested by marks? The time right before reality meets perception. The time in which system still somewhat funtions due to natural reflex. The time before sheer utter panic.  The time where the coyotee runs in mid air after the road runner and doesn't know he jumped off the cliff yet. Is there a name for this time? because I think we could be in it. 

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:10 | Link to Comment PiratePawpaw
PiratePawpaw's picture

I call it.........."NOW".

The real question is "how long does NOW last?"

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:57 | Link to Comment SheepDog-One
Fri, 08/17/2012 - 14:57 | Link to Comment monad
monad's picture

I like lead. Its cheap, and I can use it to defend myself, or to get gold, or anything else I need. 2nd amendment states that ours is a lead based economy. It still is.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:05 | Link to Comment Getting Old Sucks
Getting Old Sucks's picture

OK, you collect the lead and I'll collect the gold.  When I need more lead, I'll come to you with gold.  You'll give me lead for gold, right?  Your lead = what I might spend my gold on.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:11 | Link to Comment PiratePawpaw
PiratePawpaw's picture

The problem there is the rate of exchange.

55gr of his lead for all of your gold is a REALLY bad trade.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:19 | Link to Comment Getting Old Sucks
Getting Old Sucks's picture

Good one. +1

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:30 | Link to Comment PiratePawpaw
PiratePawpaw's picture

Thank You. :)

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 16:09 | Link to Comment XitSam
XitSam's picture

Why does everyone assume that the guy with gold has no lead? If I had any gold (tragic yachting accident), I wouldn't wait until I was out of lead before buying more lead.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 02:02 | Link to Comment Bear
Bear's picture

Haven't you heard about silver bullets ... they work against all kinds of scum

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:07 | Link to Comment Shelby Moore III
Shelby Moore III's picture

Gold standards are incompatible with debt, because if the aggregate interest rate is higher than the mining rate of gold, then over a period of time with compounding, there isn't enough physical gold to pay back the money owed.

Even a 3% spread, means that in 200 years, 1.03 (x^y) 200 = 369, the gold supply would need to increase by 39,900% over what it did, i.e. the debasement would be 1 part gold to 369 parts paper.

This is why all hard asset backed monetary systems require fractional reserve banking, whether legal (as now) or illicit (as in the 1800s).

Gold standards have never been and never will be a sustainable cure.

Btw, I advocate buying gold at this time and understand gold always rises during negative real interest rates.

Outlawing debt wouldn't work either (wasn't it tried during and caused the Dark Ages).

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 18:15 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Pretty outrageous claim about the dark ages being the result of a lack of credit.

Prove it.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 19:11 | Link to Comment Shelby Moore III
Shelby Moore III's picture

It is easier to prove (or at least argue) that ending usury laws ended the Dark Ages, thus the implication is that outlawing debt sustained the Dark Ages.

Essentially the Dark Ages were a result of the implosion of Rome's global financial and economic system, and reversion to local scale economics systems, where velocity of circulation plummeted (buried hoards are still being found today). The inability to restart the credit system sustained the localized, inefficient, anti-trade, anti-enlightening economic model of the Dark Ages.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Renaissance#Thirteenth-century

http://edition.cnn.com/2011/09/21/world/europe/money-beauty-renaissance-florence/index.html

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:09 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

 <---< more trust

 <---< less trust

this kinda ideological incomprehensible-from-the-ground pie-in-the-sky makes people react which way to "using gold as legal tender"?

choose one!  L0L!!

this "every asset" crap is ivory-tower bullshit

and unfortunately, it is keith's "only song" (?)

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:14 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Slewie your financial sense is garbage.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 16:20 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

well... 

...i can't understand him

so this is zH!  i hafta call him out!

now this!

fuk all you shitheaded moronic asswipes!  i'm goin back to the casino,000

where's that roach?  how long have i been nekkid? 

Big Changes Ahead: Gold Just Became Money Again
By: Doug Hornig, Casey Research

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 17:21 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Fair enough

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 01:01 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

L0L!!!

why doesn't anybody talk about gold extingushes debt?

this is bullshit!

you know it too, shithead!

he does not say one word about gold as LEGAL TENDER and seems to think [for another fuking YEAR] that we must have either a gold or a paper-based sysrtem

HOGWASH!!!

not one word about the US Constitution requiring money in the US to be gold and silver coinage

this is self-serving nonsense!  practically disinfo!  weak, as usual from one of the toy-boys of gold in his tower of BULlSHIT

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:11 | Link to Comment lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

remember the popcorn and coke vendors at ball games back in the day? they wore a coin belt around their waist that they would use to give a buyer the appropriate change in pennies, nickels, dimes, quarters etc for a purchase. that was the same way folks used to get paid pre 1933 in some businesses.  i knew a guy that worked for an oil company back in 1920's. on payday the pay master would walk around the office with a coin belt around his waist dispensing the wages for the week in gold coin. seems quaint. but it's true.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 17:58 | Link to Comment smiler03
smiler03's picture

Just curious so here's a question. If that happened today and say the workers worked for minimum wage 50 hours a week and there's 200 of them. What would the paymasters belt's contents look like?

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 01:08 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

why don't you figure something out for yourself for a change you styooopid fuking TROLL?

git!

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:13 | Link to Comment hannah
hannah's picture

funny without modern credit, most common folk never owned a home. it took generations to purchase a home and once bought , you never sold it. in europe and asia prior to 1950, most people never owned property. the only reason my european great great grandparents owned property was because they either gave it away or sold it for a pitance in the usa of the 1800's.

in fact, most of the world only has had access to credit since the 1980's. the usa was about the only country that gave credit to common people.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:17 | Link to Comment magpie
magpie's picture

And ? So all questions of title have been settled post-2008 ?

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:31 | Link to Comment Getting Old Sucks
Getting Old Sucks's picture

Property titles?  LOL, mostly everyone who bought houses on credit since the mid ninety's have no clue if they are even paying the actual owner on the property.  This always seems "off limits" of discussion of the "housing crises".  MBS along with MERS (recording title transfers outside the law), and MBS buyers mis-registering the trusts to avoid taxes, along with banks including the same mortgage two or three times into different bonds, and on and on and on.  Somebody do a good post on this please.  Tyler?  Reggie?  Anybody? 

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:38 | Link to Comment IndicaTive
IndicaTive's picture

Wells Fargo called left me a message a few years ago telling me my payment was seriously delinquent. WTF? Called them and they were about to foreclose, turns out they had the name right, but the loan and address wrong. The house was in my development and the Mortgage was $300k+. WTF again. Gave them my address and my loan # and they said it was a mix-up. Does this situation apply to your post?

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:55 | Link to Comment Getting Old Sucks
Getting Old Sucks's picture

Perhaps.  I read how banks changed loan numbers to confuse the trustees of the MBS bonds.  But what happens if you get a call after a trust does an audit and finds they've never been paid because the banks sold your mortgage twice?  Of course, they will have to produce the wet signature note you signed to enforce.  From what I understand Cough, robo signing, Cough, there are a lot of notes missing Cough to hide the fact that banks sold the mortgage more than once, Cough.  Anyone faced with shit like that should just tell the bank, "Show me the note". 

Cloudy proerty titles will be a problem for decades to come.  I have deeds on my MIL house that are clear and for land upstate that date back to the 18th century.  Of course those never saw MERS or MBS.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 16:45 | Link to Comment IndicaTive
IndicaTive's picture

Thanks. My orig. Mortgage was with Washington mutual, in 2004.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 17:25 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

They sold the notes on average ten times.

The record is held by one mortgage sold by Bear Sterns decd. 42 times,

The reason the paperwork never made into ANY of the trusts has to do with

the repo market.So much money was flooding the shadow banking system that

it had to be 'parked' awaiting purchase of RMBS bonds.The un transferred promissary

notes were used by the banks an eleventh time as collateral in the repo market.

When the mortgages started going bad,the SBS demanded over collaterisation on

repos.The rest is history except the whereabouts of the proceeds of all those multiple

sales,and the CDS proceeds on those multiple sales.

But Obummer says no crime was committed,move along.

 

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 18:02 | Link to Comment smiler03
smiler03's picture

You said:

"in fact, most of the world only has had access to credit since the 1980's. the usa was about the only country that gave credit to common people."

I think you are a prime example of the output of an American education system that many people here talk about.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 18:11 | Link to Comment hannah
hannah's picture

smiler30 - so you think that the average person in london in 1980 had access to as much credit as an american.... that is pure bullshit.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 01:36 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

1980?  prime rates, hannah?

February 19, 1980 =  15.75%

December 19, 1980  = 21.50%
(U.S. Prime Rate record high)
BACK TO TOP

i think there were two (2!)  buiding permits issued in the 'rural' county in which i lived that whole year

credit?  ...priceless!  L0L!!! 

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 09:39 | Link to Comment Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Wrong.

I was there,plenty of credit available.

Get your head out of your parochial arse.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:26 | Link to Comment brace_brace_brace
brace_brace_brace's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&NR=1&v=kE8RtL3azDg

here ya go fixed it for ya. Unlawful taxes backs the treasury?? Gimme a breaaaakkkkkkk. Liars and cheats. Here is what we need to fix it.

http://theghoststaroriginal.com/IMG_8005.jpg

 

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:31 | Link to Comment WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

Credit has always existed Hannah, with boom and bust, 47 of them in 220 years in the US alone, and I am not counting the bust of Italian banks in XIV centuries and so on.. That being said, people in China save massively to buy a house and the parents give money to the kids to buy the home, same thing in Italy which has the lowest mortgage debt to GDP of Europe. Consumers have little debt in Italy.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 18:09 | Link to Comment hannah
hannah's picture

if italy doesnt have a 'credit' problem then why do they have massive debt that they cant pay? if italy borows money to keep its economy afloat..then it is still using credit just not so much on a personal level.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 02:18 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

'shotgun' anyone?   ?

 

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:38 | Link to Comment jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

Let's just have silver and gold floating freely as currency. Then you'll see how worthless fiat really is.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:53 | Link to Comment Downtoolong
Downtoolong's picture

The dollar is backed by the Treasury bond, and the Treasury bond is paid in dollars.  It is circular, self-referential, and it is a ponzi scheme.

I like to think of it as a conflict of interest; or maybe I should say I hate to think of it as a conflict of interest. Either way it's no better than a ponzi scheme.

 

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 15:58 | Link to Comment TrustWho
TrustWho's picture

People cheat. Just human nature to cheat whether in gold or fiat.

The only system that workers is "equal justice for all". When people in power abuse the system, the system fails. America can no longer send powerful people to jail, so the system fails.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 16:05 | Link to Comment sasebo
sasebo's picture

Hope this guy is an Austrian.

Have Ron Paul , Lew Rockwell & Gary North read this?

They better get on the damn ball.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 16:32 | Link to Comment lynnybee
lynnybee's picture

just think, only 100 years ago the citizens of this country walked around with gold and silver in their pockets, owed propert, not beholden to much of anything or ANYONE!   those s.o.b. international bankers!   it took a while, but the children of our forefathers badically own squat and are all in debt to these fuckers!   get rid of them!   i am doing my own personal revolution, educating others, stock, stack & load.   

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 16:51 | Link to Comment redd_green
redd_green's picture

In a turd based monetary system, every asset is backed by a grunt

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 17:34 | Link to Comment TheFuture_MrGittes
TheFuture_MrGittes's picture

From Schrodinger's Cat Trilogy - R.A. Wilson

 

OCCULT TECHNOLOGY

Let me control a planet's oxygen supply and I don't care who makes the laws.
-great cthulhus starry wisdom band

 

When Clem Cotex decided to program himself into the head space of the First Bank of Religiosophy, he sent five dollars to Bad Ass, Texas, for Dr. Horace Naismith's cassette tape, "The Occult Technology of Money and the Moneylords." By the time the tape arrived in the mail, Clem had been through so many etgenstates, both as male and female, that he no longer wondered about "the stuff in the tomato juice" and was merely moderately surprised occasionally that most people were not as flexible in their thinking as he was. In fact, Clem had been a Scientologist, a solipsist, and a Logical Positivist, among other things, in the interim.

Filling a pipe with Alamout Black, the hashish of the Assassins, Clem lit up, toked deeply, and began playing the tape of "The Occult Technology of Money and the Moneylords."

"The Federal Reserve System-a private bank responsible to nobody, despite its name-creates money out of nothing," Naismith began in a pleasant Texas twang. Clem toked again and began to grok Naismith in his fullness.

The tape played on and Clem toked again each time he felt the need to grok more deeply.

Naismith quoted Buckminster Fuller (the only Unistat President ever to resign from office) and Ezra Pound, the folk singer, and John Adams and Tom Edison and a lot of other people who had long ago been on Clem's list of folks who had probably been given some of the "stuff" in the tomato juice. All of these men, Naismith pointed out, had proposed money systems more efficient and more just than the present Federal Reserve System.

"There is no one money system that was ordained by God," Naismith said. "They were all invented by human beings and can be improved by human beings.

"Now, what is money?" Naismith asked. "Money is information. Ask any computer programmer about that, if you don't believe it. Money is a signal, a unit of pure information. It is as abstract as mathematics. Cattle served as money once. So did leather. So did the precious metals. They were commodity monies, because they were worth something in themselves. Modern paper money is pure information, worth absolutely zilch, except for the signals printed on it." Clem really began to get Naismith's perspective. He toked again, feeling the Big Idea behind the First Bank of Religiosophy.

"Money in the modern world," Naismith went on, "is no more than a promise to pay. If you look at the bills in your wallet right now, you'll see what they're promising to pay. They're promising to pay you more paper. They don't have to give you a gram of gold or silver or any real commodity. They'll give you more paper if you want to trade in the paper you already have. Didn't that ever strike you as a little bit funny?

"Think of it this way," Naismith said, warming to his subject. "This is a corny old Sufi parable, but it might help you to get the picture."

The great Sufi sage Nasrudin, Naismith said, once invented a magic wand. Wishing to patent such a valuable device, Nasrudin waved the wand and created a patent office, which immediately appeared in 3-D Technicolor.

Nasrudin then walked in and told the clerk, "I want to patent a magic wand."

"You can't do that," said the clerk. "There is no such thing as a magic wand."

Nasrudin immediately waved his wand again, and the patent office and the clerk both disappeared.

"Jesus and Ludwig Christ!" Clem Cotex cried. He jumped up and turned off the tapes, totally At One with the doctrine of Religiosophy. "Money is information," he muttered, beginning to pace the room, stoned out of his gourd. "Holy snakes and ladders. 'Humanity is the symbol-using class of life, and those who control symbols control us.' I read that in Korzybski aeons ago. Information!"

Clem sat down at his desk and spread out a large piece of paper. He drew an elaborate scroll around it and printed at the top, "COTEX RESERVE SYSTEM." He made it a cashier's check to the Treasury of Unistat for ten million dollars, to be repaid at the prime interest rate of 15 percent. He then decorated another piece of paper, making it a Unistat National Bond, payable to the Cotex Reserve System for ten million dollars, thereby giving CRS the credit to loan ten million to Unistat.

He then switched the pieces of paper around on the desk. Cotex Reserve seemed to be ten million dollars ahead, and yet Unistat owed them ten million plus 15 percent interest per year.

("You can't do that. There is no such thing as a magic wand.")

Clem laughed hysterically. He remembered Simon Moon trying to explain Spencer Brown's Laws of Form to him: "To cross again is not to cross." Inflation, deflation, recession, depression: they were all like Nasrudin's patent office.

Clem knew he was in the state where synchronicities occur, so he went to his bookcase, picked a volume at random, and stuck his finger in, looking for the Message that would turn the whole experience into a full-scale Satori.

He was in The Nature of the Physical World by Sir Arthur Eddington, and the sentence he had found was:

We have certain preconceived ideas about location in space which have come down to us from apelike ancestors.

Clem Cotex laughed for nearly fifteen minutes. The next time he met Blake Williams, he unleashed his Illumination in an aphorism that he was convinced would, for once, startle the seemingly unflappable anthropologist.

"Money is the Schrödinger's Cat of economics," Clem said, waiting for some sensational reaction.

"Oh," Williams said quietly, "you've noticed that too?"

Dr. Horace Naismith had founded the First Bank of Religiosophy in Bad Ass, Texas, because he wanted to be sure nobody in the Establishment would take it seriously.

It was his plan to undermine the Federal Reserve System without their noticing what was happening.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 18:09 | Link to Comment smiler03
smiler03's picture

+1 to anybody who read all of this. I didn't.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 18:12 | Link to Comment jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

Cheers I was bored waiting to pick my son up from work ;)

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 01:58 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

Mulla Nasrudin and his wife were sitting on a bench in the park one evening just at dusk. Without knowing that they were close by, a young man and his girl friend sat down at a bench on the other side of a hedge.
Almost immediately, the young man began to talk in the most loving manner imaginable.
”He does not know we are sitting here,” Mulla Nasrudin’s wife whispered to her husband. ”It sounds like he is going to propose to her. I think you should cough or something and warn him.”
”Why should I warn him?” asked Nasrudin. ”Nobody warned me.”

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 12:46 | Link to Comment Diet Coke and F...
Diet Coke and Floozies's picture

Right on.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 22:46 | Link to Comment TwoShortPlanks
TwoShortPlanks's picture

We are all slaves, separated only by varying standards of living.

Assets enslave people by locking them down to a particular standard of living within a system. The system itself competes against other systems which have connected influence. We work for a system which effectively reduces the standard of living of other slaves in others systems by way of increasing our own efficiency, thus improving the standard of living within our particular system. Further, the people with the greatest influence within any system gain a better standard of living within that system. Influence is gained by increasing either the number of counter party risk influence an individual has, or, by influencing the law which governs the system.

The only difference between physical assets without counter party risk and assets with counter party risk, be that physical or paper, is the ability of people with greater influence to enforce that counter party risk via the laws which transmit that influence.

This is the entire premise on which society is built and the laws which provide governance within the systems.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBk3TjKrUk4

Gold does not remove the owner from their system, it merely reduces the amount of counter party risk influences they are subjected to. So you become less of a slave with the same wealth and standard of living. This is why slaves within third world systems buy Gold...although more than likely they have no idea as to real reason why they do so.

Freedom is within the psyche of all living things. This is why the attraction of Gold has existed for thousands of years.

Gold = Freedom = The highest standard of living possible

In a world where most of us have been repressed by large amounts of counter party risk (debt) for so long and to such high levels, the overwhelming desire to be free has never been so great for many generations. For this reason alone, expect the human psyche to overpower the desire for wealth, expect a boom in the attainment of freedom, of Gold itself.

If you look within yourself and ask if you are sick of debt. I think you'll find truth in my words.

Sun, 08/19/2012 - 15:00 | Link to Comment Pseudolus
Pseudolus's picture

"We are all slaves, separated only by varying standards of living."

 

Grant immunity to him whom I indicate, and a non-initiate, a slave belonging to soemone here present, shall describe the Mysteries to you...

 

O tractator! "Legum servi sumus ut liberi esse possimus"

Seim anew. Ordovico or viricordo.Ask Francis Bacon

 

DC was the new Rome, for the New Order of the Ages. Washington is DC's Julius Caesar (almost - look at his Apotheosis). 

Why do you think public education instructs on anything but the Classics (and ekonomia). To avoid public awareness that the founding conforms to the meta-narrative 

UCC. Roman law of the sea. Urbi et orbi...

Roman fascism. Citizens and slaves. A Republic - if you can keep it. Unfortunately, its Republic or Empire. 'Freedom to fascism'? - only because enough of the US Citizenry sold their freedom by sucking the teat en masse

At least you gave it a go, unlike the venal serfs in Europe. Enough now. Slave don't bear arms, so just turn them in, y'all

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 01:41 | Link to Comment Bear
Bear's picture

The FED will never let the whole system go defunct ... they will just print, print, and more print, and if they ever migrate to a gold standard they will confiscate all privately held gold and not allow gold selling for a generation. I don't believe gold ownership (unless it is safely outside the USA) will ever shield one from the ultimate explosion that will transpire. They have proven over and over that the average guy will take in on the chin.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 01:57 | Link to Comment Bear
Bear's picture

Interestingly, my dollar bill says "This note is legal tender for all debts, public and private." ....  my bank says they will return my 'money' in bills (if they stay in business) ... and if my bank goes bankrupt, then the FDIC will ask the FED (via the Treasury) to print more bills and then the FDIC will give bills to my bank and my bank will give them to me (unless a Corizination take place). I deposited bills and I get bills back ... as long as the paper bills buy food I am ok.

Of course, there is an infinite number of ways that my government or my bank can screw me, so I'm not going to rely on any intuition to feed my family 

 

 

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 02:46 | Link to Comment slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

stick with the salmon

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 07:05 | Link to Comment GMadScientist
GMadScientist's picture

A real bills doctrine by any other name would still smell like shit.

Weiner is entirely aptonymic.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 10:43 | Link to Comment BruntFCA
BruntFCA's picture

Excellent points, but remember this.

When you approached the bank at first they had no money. It is your "promissory note" that has value - your promise of future production. They monetize that promissory note, and then claim opportunity cost on it (interest) as if they always had the money in their possesion. They are in effect laundering the money into their own possession and then get you to pay interest on it.

Whats worse, if you "borrow" 100,000 for a house, you in fact have to pay for 3 houses, say 300,000 to repay the loan; the real creditor in this case, the person giving up lawful concideration, the person selling the house only gets 100,000. Therefore, for simply creating the money at no cost, and publishing a record of your debt (a ledger entry), they get to collect 2 times the value of the house.

There's an interesting article writing in the 1920 by Henry Ford, and Eddision about how stupid a system this is, google it, worth a read. Debt can be a powerful tool, but only when the debt is backed by assets, and without "banks" interposing themeselves between the real people exchanging the lawful concideration for the promissory note.

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 14:14 | Link to Comment indio007
indio007's picture

There  is no loan. There is an exchange of ready money versus time money. Technically it's a discount of paper. They get people to say it's a loan out of ignorance.

 

The call an "advance" in the US Code.

 

 

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 11:49 | Link to Comment dizzyfingers
Sat, 08/18/2012 - 12:29 | Link to Comment China
China's picture

You are all conspiracy theorists. If this was really truth, Fox News, who is fair and balanced, would report on this. Obviously, there are more important matters to be taken care of like overthrowing the Syrian government and putting UAVs over America.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!