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Past Midnight Headlines From Greece Send zEURq.PK Tumbling

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Nothing really new per se, just G-Pap reiterating, now that his meeting is finally over at about 2 am local, that the referendum will proceed as noted earlier, probably some time in January, and Europe will like it or leave it.

  • GREEKS TO VOTE ON EURO MEMBERSHIP IN REFERENDUM: PAPANDREOU - BBG
  • GREEK PM SAYS PARTNERS WILL RESPECT AND SUPPORT GREECE'S EFFORTS -RTRS

What? Or Else? And how does this mesh with the following headline from Bloomberg:

  • Netherlands Will Try to Get Greek Referendum Canceled, PM Says

At what point do the crazy pills run out already?

EUR luvin' itself some express elevator action.

 

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Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:04 | 1834748 Silver Kiwi
Silver Kiwi's picture

Time for the Greek people to reclaim their democracy. A shining light for all the OWS movements around the world...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:07 | 1834759 hazek
hazek's picture

Democracy? How about their freedom and soverignty instead?

 

Democracy is nothing but 2 wolfs and a sheep voting on what's for dinner. True freedom is not delegated by majority rule.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:10 | 1834775 Melin
Melin's picture

after the wolves have schooled the sheep on the wonders of democracy...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:36 | 1834867 data_monkey
data_monkey's picture

Like hanging chads.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:40 | 1834880 dlmaniac
dlmaniac's picture

"Netherlands Will Try to Get Greek Referendum Canceled"

SH*T ABOUT TO HIT THE FAN.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:44 | 1834899 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

I picked the wrong day to quit sniffing glue.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:40 | 1835085 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

Does this mean the viking ships are preparing to sail. The heads of the greek military have all been removed. Should be a cake walk.

 

http://www.athensnews.gr/portal/8/49916

 

Complements to Mercy at SA

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 23:01 | 1835469 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

Should be a cake walk.   Hmmmmmm.   I don't know about that.   I understand those Ouzo Molotov Cocktails burn like a MOFO.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 02:18 | 1835829 Troy Ounce
Troy Ounce's picture

 

 

 

No forget about this one. Big mouth PM trying to sooth the electrorate. In fact, there is a complete media black out in Holland on the causes of the financial crisis as msm = big money = msm.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:04 | 1834991 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

i thought Greece "invented democracy" and therefore "sees this one coming." Hence the "plebicite" or whatever it is? How can one say no to "democracy in Greece" i ask you? HOW!!!!????

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:10 | 1834777 boom goes the d...
boom goes the dynamite's picture

then what or whom is it delegated by?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:18 | 1834801 hazek
hazek's picture

By induviduals asserting their rights and soverignty by whatever that may entail.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:54 | 1834951 max2205
max2205's picture

LoL. Jan ?! When do they get the bailout$. This whole thing is getting STUPID.

Jan is like a decade to traders

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:24 | 1834808 Melin
Melin's picture

In a pure democracy, a vote can put to death the likes of Socrates for speaking his mind.  The US Founders recognized the evil that is pure democracy and so do our current crop of rulers.  Unlike our founders tho, our current crop of rulers would love nothing more than to have peoples' rights voted out of existence by mob rule.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:27 | 1834837 Gohn Galt
Gohn Galt's picture

Do you think we could have a pure democracy day every once in awhile to clear out the clutter.  It would be just as good as those US repatriate money day where you can bring in all your offshore profits tax free.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:08 | 1834998 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Yeah, that worked out really well.

And besides of this goes to circumvent the point: What in this case the greek would vote on, would not be individual matters, but collective matters.... and for "some reason", it appears reasonable that the collective should have the most weight in deciding about....the collective.

Vote by majority may not be justified when it comes to individual matters.... but it sure as hell beats deciding group matters by a minority, selected by another minority, which in turn is elected by the collective, from a pool of options selected by a minority.

But yeah, you go and have fun in your quasi-dictatorship representative deMockCrazy, with no practical overrides to stop completely undemocratic decisions..... while you do that, and whine about that you have no way at all to influence politics except of via revolts...... i go prefer something more..... effective.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:10 | 1835006 diesheepledie
diesheepledie's picture

It actually was working well for the PRODUCTIVE CLASS.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:43 | 1835093 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Who are you to decide INDIVIDUAL matters based on how "productive" someone is? The only thing you can demand from someone else, is that someone else's lifestyle is not lived to your own disadvantage.

How anyone - including some (by far not all) people around here, can on the one hand claim, that they advocate selfownership... yet on the other hand make totalitarian claims on how others are supposed to live their life, besides of not harming others.... is beyond me.

(Disclaimer: I'm not really replying to you. Couldn't care less about your opinions (anyone wondering why? Check his track, if you don't know him already). However, your post offered a nice hook for mentioning something that bothered me since quite a while :-)

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 21:33 | 1835208 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Yes. Well put.

My pet peeve is when the same people who hate bankers want the 'irresponsible' to pay their debts back to the banksters.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 21:58 | 1835234 Rynak
Rynak's picture

I'd add: To banksters who can create money out of thin air.

What i mean with this, is that there is something seriously fishy about all the global debt..... it was offered by people who (directly or indirectly) didn't actually have do "give" anything they own away..... actually, if we'd go into full detail, they just taxed EVERYONE ELSE, and then lended that.

This creates a quite fucked up situation: Everyone against everyone's consent did lend something... and this then plus interest is to be paid back to a.... tiny minority?

All the debt owed to bankers requires much more thought than plain "X owes Y, Z money". This kind of intuitive thinking stops matching reality, when central banking comes into play.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 21:59 | 1835264 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"it was offered by people who (directly or indirectly) didn't actually have do "give" anything they own away"

This is the crux of it.

They don't have it to lend or give. Its "created". Theres no there...there. Its the most unbelieveable con there ever was.

What is "pretended" to be lent...does not exist.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 22:14 | 1835312 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Problem is: "Something" created out of this insanity, in the end does exist. It is measured as inflation - added exchange value (yeah, we could now go into the issues of fiat, by mentioning, that all that was added to the economy, was promises and belief/trust)....

...still.... how do you unwind that in a fair way?

I mean, sure, i guess we both agree that the way how this got into circulation was fraud.... but that still leaves the big question open, how to clean up the mess in a fair way?

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 05:38 | 1835978 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Or hedonics...lol...I guess thats the rub, how to equitably wind it down.

I'm kinda in the jubilee camp. The debts go into the ether from which they came.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 22:40 | 1835403 diesheepledie
diesheepledie's picture

You sheep think its easy to create a money system based completely on faith in power? To control herds of hundreds of millions, billions of greedy animals, and coerce them to behave? Try it some time ...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 22:54 | 1835433 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Yeah, when someday you grow up, you may be like big uncle benocide..... most probably though, you'll just stay what you are now. You know, all that career hype is vastly overhyped.

You know, that scene from fightclub about everyone becoming holywood stars? Sorry to break it to you, but you'll just be a sucker like everyone else - except of with a corrupted conscience looking for distraction from yourself.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 22:57 | 1835453 diesheepledie
diesheepledie's picture

Sorry, I don't know what you are talking about. A Hollywood movie that you have become emotionally attached to? A decent distraction for you I hope? I sense the typical bitter sheep who doesn't like how the game ends. Underwater house? Lots of credit card debt? LOL!!! 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 23:26 | 1835513 Rynak
Rynak's picture

No underwarter house, zero debt at banks (also no account at TBTF banks, and also no significant deposits at my bank). Also no gov loans (i.e. student loans and stuff). A credit card? What's that? Actually, if i'm thinking about it, i never ever went into debt in my life so far - not even towards friends or relatives.

Better luck next time - you're talking to a total "drop-out".

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:18 | 1835026 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Sorry, but I'm going to have to pull historical accuracy here.

 

Things you never knew about Socrates' trial, but should know:

#1 He was tried for "corrupting youth" - but it wasn't his teachings, or Plato who got him in trouble. It was a 15 year old satire (play) about him that lead to his arrest. Yes, he was arrested on the strength of a play about his life - that wasn't even current, but had gone under revival.

#2 Socrates, and his supporters (of whom there were many rich & influential members of Athenian democracy) knew that the charges were total bullshit, and based on a play. When arrested, Socrates denounced this.

#3 Whilst in prison, his supporters enacted two plans: one to bribe the judiciary to let Socrates go, another to do a 'prison break' and get him out. Socrates veto'd both of these, stating that if he was being tried for a false crime, he would stick to Athenian Law. Socrates was at no point unable to avoid all charges - he could have run from Athens at any point

#4 During his trial, Socrates tore apart the accusation case and could have walked free: instead, he demanded that TPTB either declare him innocent of charges, and admit that his trial was a political one, or condemn him to death absolute [the crime he was charged with came with a number of other options, including exile]. TPTB, forced into an embarrassing corner, chose death.

#5 Socrates understood this, and stated that since his life was the cause of the crime, he would enact the sentence. He took hemlock under the protests of connected followers still demanding to jail break him.

 

tldr;

 

Socrates demanded his own death, and demanded he enact it, to fully expose the venality and corruption of his city state.

 

 

Don't get that anymore, do you? Cockroaches scurrying for lawyers and pardons all.... And so. Fuck you. Your world will end.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 21:06 | 1835145 CharlieSDT
CharlieSDT's picture

I dunno, seems kind of stupid to die for that, to expose corruption.  I'd prefer to live, give me the Galileo plan.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 21:22 | 1835181 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Don't know if i'd call that stupid. Depends on his intentions. Though, maybe i define "stupidity" a bit different.... i do not see it as "someone is acting in a way that is inefficient in achieving MY goals" but instead "someone is acting in a way, that is inefficient in achieving HIS/HER goals"..... or in short: incomptence in achieving own goals (which as a premise also requires understanding what one wants, and how to achieve it).

So, what about socrates? Was his decision stupid according to the above definition? Depends on what he wanted, and the circumstances. For example, was it important to him, to continue having influence on the world beyond this point? Or did he already consider his past actions sufficient, and it was only a matter of amplifying his past actions - i.e. via martyrdom (i'm almost sure i spelled that wrong)? If the later, would martyrdom have a higher impact, than him continueing to live, regarding that trial?

Or was he just stubborn, and wanted to stick to his rules no matter the circumstances and his goals (stupidity)? Or something entirely different?

Okay, time to shoot my own argument in the foot, after having provoked some thoughts. Remember some of his ideas? Especially about the state? What are the odds, that he just stubbornly stuck to his vision, even if the current state had nothing to do with it, and thus possibly did not deserve loyality?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 21:49 | 1835246 Melin
Melin's picture

It's "Live Free Among Honest Citizens or Die."

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 22:51 | 1835437 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

"Don't know if i'd call that stupid. Depends on his intentions."

I think his thought processes went something like "Hmm...  Squeeze a few more years out of this shell or...  Immortality?"  Clearly, it was to have his ideas live forever.

Well played!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 23:03 | 1835475 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

Ya, death is not the end.   OTOH it's not much of a beginning either.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 23:05 | 1835480 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Amusing and good point :-)

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 21:49 | 1835245 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Socrates demanded his own death, and demanded he enact it, to fully expose the venality and corruption of his city state.

Don't get that anymore, do you?"

Not so much...lol.

However, I've always felt commiting suicide to prove a point...however noble...seemed a less than productive endeavor as the point could very well be lost on the less worthy, to whom the point was trying to be made.

Still...a greenie from me ;-)

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 22:03 | 1835282 Melin
Melin's picture

If one didn't have the mind of Socrates, would one fare better when falsely accused under direct democracy?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:41 | 1834887 Cole Younger
Cole Younger's picture

"Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed"


Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:47 | 1834910 hazek
hazek's picture

Yeah? No one asked me for my consent. In fact if I refuse I get forcefully placed in a nice small room with iron bars and if I resist I get a nice lead bullet in my head.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:47 | 1834912 1fortheroad
1fortheroad's picture

Yep, and a Republic is  2 wolfs and a well armed sheep voting on what's for dinner.  

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:42 | 1835090 bankruptcylawyer
bankruptcylawyer's picture

this is something young communalists and good hearted people fail to understand all too often. 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:15 | 1834791 TK7936
TK7936's picture

DIRECT DEMOCRACY!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:51 | 1834935 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

Look at the people around you.  I would guess that the great bulk of them are braindead morons.  Do you really want full democracy with that crowd?  Let's do my favorite test.  Let's head into the NYC subway and then answer if you want direct democracy.  The 4 train proves just how frightening democracy would be. 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:40 | 1835080 Whoa Dammit
Whoa Dammit's picture

My next door neighbors could give the 4 train folks a run for their money. They are a white amrried couple, in their 30s, 2 small children , stay at home mom. A few days ago, they changed their exterior front door light bulbs to red. We thought that they were doing something for Halloween. But last night they hid in their house & didn't turn the outside lights on. Scary folks.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:59 | 1835130 Optimusprime
Optimusprime's picture

"Direct democracy" can't really work well in in polities larger than a few thousand at most.  You have to be able to buttonhole those you disagree with and engage in debate.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:37 | 1834872 Cole Younger
Cole Younger's picture

Democracies are mobs.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:41 | 1834885 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

I prefer a libertarian dictatorship.
Force the people to accept individual liberty and personal respinsibility.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:02 | 1834985 LaLiLuLeLo
LaLiLuLeLo's picture

Americans don't care about that antiquated hooplah, they're all dancing with the stars.

 

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:14 | 1835017 diesheepledie
diesheepledie's picture

Elected Monarchy with term limits. Best possible system. One head to roll if the people are not respected. No pointing fingers or mysterious man behind the curtain. A single Pharaoh on a single 5 year term.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 22:16 | 1835327 winning
winning's picture

MOB RULE!!!!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:26 | 1835046 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

The vote will be in January?  The EU doesn't have that long to go also I didn't know it was also about staying in the EU, this is getting extremely nasty.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:04 | 1834750 zebra
zebra's picture

how about a headline rumor contest??

 

"Ben Bernanke seeks to become a Greek citizen and relocate Fed operation to Athen"

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:21 | 1834816 Alea Iactaest
Alea Iactaest's picture

.

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 04:50 | 1835948 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Sorry.  FT has a monopoly on rumors.  When even they can't infuse the market with feta-viagra, the end is nigh....

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:06 | 1834753 Western
Western's picture

How about those Dutch don't stick their wooden clogs where they don't belong.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:10 | 1834770 Ethics Gradient
Ethics Gradient's picture

Quite! Since when can Greek democracy be sidelined at the behest of a Dutch PM?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:53 | 1834941 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

Plus Amstel Light sucks.  I love seeing a guy order Amstel Light at a bar.  It tells you everything you need to know about that person.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:48 | 1835104 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Go to Eroupe, or make your own (or come here...) for a decent beer.

Amsterdam had great "coffee" though.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 21:09 | 1835154 CharlieSDT
CharlieSDT's picture

The Amstel regular in Amsterdam is on tap is quite tasty.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 23:30 | 1835534 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Why are you wasting your time on this one?  Okj, a man of conscience...>

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:46 | 1834904 knukles
knukles's picture

Well, guess the die is cast.  The fundamental reason for the EU being, that they (EU members) quit wars mongst themselves is now shattered.  The Dutch Army (Which has More Barbers Than Infantrymen... Truth, mes amis.) shall be personally (Jacques, from Brusslex) shall be invading Atherns to take over @OccupyAthens4EUMembership.  Once the protest is concluded (about 24 hours, one blow job from a woman with a moustache and 3 retsina later) Jacques shall be elected GS Partner in charge of collecting return deposits on empty cans and bottles strewn about the Accropolis.

Hell of a job, Jacques!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 23:05 | 1835481 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

Ya, difficult to digest the Dutch at war with the Greeks.    One is stoned out of their minds, the other is ripped 12 sheets to the Athenian wind.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:05 | 1834754 monopoly
monopoly's picture

17 countries. How do you get 17 countries in sync with each other? Most of us cannot even be in sync with our spouses every day. You are going to get 17 different ideologies to agree on major financial decisions that affect their individual countries. Why not even Sudden Debt would agree with that.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:10 | 1834779 Racer
Racer's picture

The more people who experience the problem/event the less likely that ANY of them will do anything, it is a well known fact

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:59 | 1834970 max2205
max2205's picture

ABC News: Greek retires at 52 gets 52,000 per year retirement

USA GETS 28,000 retirement at 62 if you live that long

Ummmm yeah I get it.... Move to Greece young

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:47 | 1834911 knukles
knukles's picture

You too?  I can't get in sync with all my spouses, either and I only (well, she actually, different personalities) have 14 of them.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:06 | 1834756 bania
bania's picture

crazy pills have permanent side effects apparently

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:53 | 1834942 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

"At what point do the crazy pills run out already?"

It is a little known fact that crazy pills can be created on the same printers Bernanke uses to give his friends free money. Sorry, there is an infinite supply of crazy pills.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:08 | 1834760 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture

RRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR....

Engines revving on Dutch B-52 bombers ...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:48 | 1834920 knukles
knukles's picture

LOL  Imagine that....

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 23:09 | 1835126 tom a taxpayer
tom a taxpayer's picture

In a desperate attempt to subjugate Greece, Dutch B-52 bombers will be dropping Dutch Masters Cigars.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 23:58 | 1835600 Dave
Dave's picture

Hopefully they'll use a better cigar than that.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:08 | 1834761 pleseus
pleseus's picture

I sense a market crash followed by a fiat tsunami. I'm holding tight in PM's.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:08 | 1834762 Racer
Racer's picture

So a country want to hold a referendum to ask its people what they want, another country wants to stop it???????

Oh this is getting so bizarro now

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:13 | 1834787 Quintus
Quintus's picture

Yeah.  Now, if this country was in, oh let's say, the Middle East, the 'Free World' leaders would be lining up to approve of this popular vote and the implied freedom it gives to the common people.

However, now that one of their fellow 'Western Countries' wants to let its people have a say, suddenly it's a major problem.

What does that tell you about the system under which we live?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:47 | 1834918 Cole Younger
Cole Younger's picture

Correct...freedom only as free as the governments allow. Something our founding fathers failed to recognize. 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:08 | 1834764 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Netherlands Will Try to Get Greek Referendum Canceled, PM Says

ROTFL!!!...wait, this came from the Onion right?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:43 | 1834893 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Hotel Bilderberg is in the Netherlands

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:47 | 1834913 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Yeppers. Me thinks they do protest too much ;-)

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:49 | 1834928 knukles
knukles's picture

That sir is worth multiples for the double entendre.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:00 | 1834975 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I try to work it in whenever and wherever possible...damn, did it again...lol.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 22:33 | 1835377 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Thanks for the quote.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:09 | 1834768 lotusblue
lotusblue's picture

Monopoly-you gave me an idea-How about a Sudden Dept playoff,the winner gets debt relief and the losers get austerity

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:10 | 1834773 Mark123
Mark123's picture

This is just too delicious! If I were a Greek I would be loading up on gold, goats and olive trees and heading for the country.

 

Gotta feel a bit sorry for the real honest pensioners in Greece.  Turkey must be getting a boner watching this.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:52 | 1834937 knukles
knukles's picture

(Pssst... Greek men do not use goats... )

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:00 | 1834976 RoadKill
RoadKill's picture

Hmm...

Italy looks like a boot. Turkey looks like a boner. Greece is in between. I guess Spain must be the head in some kind of kinky Kama Sutra comic.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:10 | 1834774 Royal Fleming
Royal Fleming's picture

Fuck G-pap and the ruins he rode in on....tired of it....

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:12 | 1834783 Sequitur
Sequitur's picture

Are you long Groupon?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:14 | 1834778 Debugas
Debugas's picture

I am very happy for greeks - they should declare default and send all creditors far away.

Of cause they will need to immediately balance their budget but i think they can handle it

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:18 | 1834806 Mutatto
Mutatto's picture

2 years of hard default adjustments verses 10+ years of grinding austerity toward 100% GDP debt balances?

I hope they default. 

The banksters need to take the losses.  I hope the EU taxpayers can stand up to the bought and paid for politicians that will try to socialize the losses. 

 

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:15 | 1834790 css1971
css1971's picture

Why, oh why, would you watch "Dancing With The Stars" over this?

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:02 | 1834982 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

??? Are you kidding? Miss the elimination round after they put so much work into their group performances? If you think about it DWTS is much like the EMU, with one country after another getting voted off. Greece currently has the lowest scores but the opinions of the masses could knock either Italy or Germany out first. 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:15 | 1834793 TK7936
TK7936's picture

Calling him GO PAP from now on.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:17 | 1834798 pacdm
pacdm's picture

Can someone tell please how the Netherlands can get the Greek Referendum Canceled.

What the fuck has Europe become.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:17 | 1834799 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

Doesn't greece run out of money before january?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:51 | 1834931 Cole Younger
Cole Younger's picture

Nope....the ECB and the IMF do not want a default......there will be money available...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:55 | 1834955 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

January of what year?  Seems they've had the tin-can out since GS got G-Pappy et al to sign on to all the banking debts.  Like Ireland, the U.S., Spain, and others.

Betcha when they vote, Iceland comes up in the papers beforehand....

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:18 | 1834802 Bangin7GramRocks
Bangin7GramRocks's picture

A month is just enough time for the U.S. to flood the country with CIA agents who will either overthrow the government or steal the election. Globetrotters win again! Armageddon will wait for another six months.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:18 | 1834803 Sequitur
Sequitur's picture

Look at that chart. So, after UBS, whose the next "rogue trader" to blow up a bank's delta desk while tooling around with FOREX?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:19 | 1834807 tkinfo
tkinfo's picture

And I thought being a greek in college was hard. Midnight ding sessions, a battle between rival fraternities. Little did I know it was preparing me to run a hedge fund...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:19 | 1834809 DarkestPhoenix
DarkestPhoenix's picture

Lovin' an elevator.

Livin' it up when it's going down.

 

(not exact lyrics noted) 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:20 | 1834812 AgK9
AgK9's picture

Tried to find a 2X leveraged ETF to short wool... no luck.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:56 | 1834960 greensnacks
greensnacks's picture

does drr make wool?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:20 | 1834814 Racer
Racer's picture

Some time in Jan? Um that's is going to take a lot of inventiveness on a daily basis for the rumour mill!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:54 | 1834952 knukles
knukles's picture

thank our lucky stars.... 3 more months of ridicule!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:20 | 1834815 Desert Irish
Desert Irish's picture

Oops... here comes gravity

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:21 | 1834817 hackettlad
hackettlad's picture

How dare the Greeks consult their own people?  Don't you know that's just not allowed in the EU project?  The democratic deficit, the lack of accountability will catch up with these people soon enough.  

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:21 | 1834818 jmcadg
jmcadg's picture

I find it hilarious that commentators are still confident that the bailout will be a YES vote.

Are you kidding:

Fictional Reporter: "Would you like to go with the bailout of the banks and live with worsening austerity ad infinitum, or get out of the EU and at worst see where the chips lie?"

Fictional Greek person (probably in Greek!) "Hell yes, give me some more of that tasty austerity, I'm luvin' it"

Fuckin' CNBC retards.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:22 | 1834821 hackettlad
hackettlad's picture

It's funny when the West doesn't like the result of elections in foreign countries it seeks to control, it likes to manipulate the outcome (Algeria, Palestine, Latin America).  But clearly it's not some racist reflex - look at what the Netherlands is doing now.  Exactly the same analogue.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:24 | 1834825 lapedochild
lapedochild's picture

I am Dutch and our newspapers are reporting something different:

 

http://www.nrc.nl/nieuws/2011/11/01/rutte-ik-vraag-nog-geen-groen-licht-...

 

Put it google translate but the essential para:

 

“Landen gaan zelf over de manier waarop ze ja of nee zeggen. Dat kan gebeuren door het parlement of via een referendum. Een Grieks referendum is een uiterst ongelukkige ontwikkeling, maar het wordt buitengewoon lastig om het te voorkomen.”

Rutte zei wel samen met andere eurolanden ‘maximale druk’ op Griekenland uit te zullen oefenen. Als Griekenland het referendum toch doorzet, moet dat een ‘minimaal’ referendum zijn dat zo snel mogelijk plaatsvindt. Onder meer de PvdA en het CDA willen het referendum van tafel hebben.

 

Countries thenmselves are responsible for voting yes or no. This can happen by parliament or referendum. A Greek Referendum is cleary an undesirable event but will be extremely hard to prevent"

He said that he and other EZ countres will pressure Greece. If the ref will take place it has to be a minimal one and as quickly as possibe. Other parties want to prevent the referendum from happening at all

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:32 | 1834859 drivenZ
drivenZ's picture

"If the ref will take place it has to be a minimal one and as quickly as possibe."

 

time is an enemy here for sure...the longer it goes the more pressure on Italy. 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:44 | 1834898 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Greetings from America! Home of the CDO!

So lemme get this straight. The Dutch/EU bankers loaned money to a "subprime" Greek government and now they are openly trying to subvert the peoples government to the will of the Dutch/EU bankers?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:57 | 1834963 knukles
knukles's picture

No fucking way.  The Dutch bankers couldn't have gotten a union vote of approval to harass the Greeks, yet.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:04 | 1834992 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Theres an app for that!!!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:16 | 1835023 knukles
knukles's picture

But it's still dinner time and after coffee they're headed to De Wallen auf Amsterdamen.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:23 | 1835041 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I got tears streaming down my face laughing at your "invasion" post up top...I got nuthin...my ribs hurt...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 21:35 | 1835210 plantigrade
plantigrade's picture

funny that the Dutch were of the few to be allowed a referendum on Europe, and they said no

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dutch_European_Constitution_referendum,_2005 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:25 | 1834829 Silvarouvres
Silvarouvres's picture

"try to get the referendum cancelled"

To be more precise, the Dutch PM said he would do his utmost to convince the Greek government to cancel the referendum. He also admitted it ws unlikely he would succeed and that Europe had no means to force the Greeks to do so.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:27 | 1834835 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

GPAP is a little disingenuous when it comes to Greece and I think this is all about he trying to maintain his own power. He is telling the people of Greece one story and meanwhile he is telling the EU the exact opposite. If the Germans don't kick his ass and Greece to the sidelines now I've lost all respect for them. With all of the unintended consequences unfolding I honestly believe a Greece default would cause fewer world wide disruptions. Staying short and wondering what happened to robo.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:28 | 1834840 IEVI
IEVI's picture

G-Pap knows Greece is fucked whether they take the bailout money and give up their sovereignty to Troika or fuck their debt holders and leave the euro. I think he is just trying to save his own ass at this point. Let the people choose so when they are suffering he can say this is what you chose.

 

I think the headlines this morning regarding the military were significant. G-Pap obviously feels threatened.

http://www.zerohedge.com/news/greek-military-overhaul-attempt-prevent-coup

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:28 | 1834841 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Just kick the greeks out already.
Sarkozy spoke what everyone else was thinking.
Greece should not have been allowed into the eurozone.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:45 | 1834903 melanie
melanie's picture

Then why French banks are most exposed to Greek debt: 50 US Billion dollar?

I think that's even a bigger mistake.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:29 | 1834847 Silver Kiwi
Silver Kiwi's picture

So what happens next?

Greece declines the EU offer & their golden handcuffs

Greece defaults & leaves the EU

EU banks and funds holding Greek debt collapse & require EU govt bailouts 

CDS's are triggered

The banks, funds & TBTF's all clamour to cash in their CDS's confident they have no counter party risk because they're hedged

The banks, funds & TBTF's suddenly realise that they are completely exposed and their CDS's and hedges are worthless

The ECB, Fed & the US Treasury, seeing the size of the $50+ Trillion taxpayer bailout bend over & kiss their arses goodbye

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:41 | 1834884 MS7
MS7's picture

I would like for Greece to default and leave the EU, but I predict:

G-Pap (or Go Pap, as one of the comments said, reflecting his newfound independence) does not get vote of confidence by the fools in Parliament.

Either new elections are called or a deal is made on a bipartisan government. The new leader, like Antonis Samaras of New Democracy, says he will re-negotiate with Merkel. He is able to get a little better deal, and presents the new deal as soooo much better than Go-Pap's. Greek people will have patience for a time, but then they will realize how rotten he too is. They will become demoralized and lose their fighting spirit. The bankers win, as always.

I am a pessimist, as you may be able to see. This is the worst case scenario, and therefore more likely in my eyes.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:50 | 1834929 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Good amaysis.

I think the government stays intact and the referendum is ultimately approved, but either way, grabbing risk by the horns and phuking it up the azz at the right time should net huge profits.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 22:23 | 1835342 totem
totem's picture

The trouble here is, GO-Pap has given the people a voice.

Now, any Greek politician who comes along and tries to take that voice away is going against the people!

As someone else remarked, GO-Pap has played this brilliantly.  We can only wonder how long he had this plan in mind.

GO-Pap should probably watch his back until the vote... for some reason, the "Pink Panther: Clouseau at Octoberfest" scene comes to mind, and GO-Pap is Clouseau! :-)

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:30 | 1834851 Rastamann
Rastamann's picture

Papa D must be making libertarian peabrains eat themselves alive over this latest bit of Greek DEMOCRACY.

 

if there's anything corporatist libertarians HATE HATE HATE.....it's THE PEOPLE MAKING DECISIONS COLLECTIVELY.

 

(phonetic translation available to all you present/former Bushbots on request)

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:53 | 1834950 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

Not necessarily.

Some of us enjoy the humor of democracy. And zero hedge is the best seat in the house to watch or play the game.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:07 | 1834999 fuu
fuu's picture

Yours is the party of inclusion.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:38 | 1834873 navy62802
navy62802's picture

So what exactly has become of Greek debt in the past few weeks. People keep talking about a Greek default, yet it's not happening. And as far as I can tell, no outside institutions have actually provided Greece with any kind of bailout. The 50% "haircut" hasn't happened yet either ... it's only been agreed to. So basically, Greece's position hasn't actually changed at all. And they haven't defaulted yet? At what point will they default? Usually this comes down to a definitive timeline based on the government's debt obligations, yet no one ever nails down a specific time-frame for a Greek default. Is the Greek government's accounting really that opaque? Or is the truth of the matter simply being obfuscated to the point that any statement proclaiming the ground truth about Greek debt simply bullshit? Which is it?

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:48 | 1834919 walküre
walküre's picture

"The checks are in the mail... since October 26th"

2nd tranche has NOT been released.

Banks are no longer accepting government checks and converting into cash.

 

It's what you don't hear about that is important

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 22:03 | 1835226 plantigrade
plantigrade's picture

It's a brilliant baffling verbal bullshit policy.

And if the referendum is on Europe participation rather than on repayments, Europe might actually like it.

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:39 | 1834879 rodocostarica
rodocostarica's picture

Smart move Pap. Stops Greek riots till referendum. Gives them more leverage if it is a ways away. Brilliant. Take back the power.

 

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:41 | 1834888 melanie
melanie's picture

Who could have guessed it. The black swan be called Papandreou :)

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:42 | 1834889 Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

January ? This train wreck won't last until Thanksgiving

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:47 | 1834909 SunBlaster
SunBlaster's picture

I have a feeling that G-Pap will change his mind or not survive until January.

Papandreou and his wife Ada have a daughter, Margarita-Elena. He also has a son, Andreas, (born 1982) from a previous marriage, 1976–1987, to Evanthia Zissimides, born in Cyprus and raised in England. He has two younger brothers, Nikos Papandreou and Andreas Papandreou, and two younger sisters, Sophia Papandreou and Emilia Nyblom.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:49 | 1834927 LookingWithAmazement
LookingWithAmazement's picture

"It takes 180 votes in the 300-seat parliament to call a referendum. Papandreou’s ruling coalition has just 153 seats."

http://www.eurasiareview.com/31102011-greece-to-hold-referendum-on-debt-deal/

Bye bye referendum. Storm in a teacup. No crisis. Rally! Buy stocks!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:11 | 1834994 wang (not verified)
wang's picture

I have a lot of time for Robert Steven Duncan, nice to see he graduated  from rsdreports.com to found http://www.eurasiareview.com/about/

 

from the archive

Turkmen Pilgrims Make A Homegrown Hajj
Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:53 | 1834944 windwardbiz
windwardbiz's picture

Bloomber :

 

Greek Prime Minister George Papandreou told his ministers in Athens today that his plans for a referendum would confirm Greece as a member of the European Union and the euro area and send a clear message.

“The dilemma isn’t ‘this or another government’,” Papandreou told his ministers in Athens today, according to an e-mailed transcript of his statements. “The dilemma is ‘yes or no to the loan accord’, ‘yes or no to Europe’, ‘yes or no to the euro’.”

Papandreou said resorting to early elections would be “shirking responsibility”.

 

http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-11-01/papandreou-says-plans-for-refer...

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:53 | 1834945 wang (not verified)
wang's picture

no no no

there is a back story here ... but what is it. G-Pap = slime ball so what is really going on

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 19:58 | 1834967 navy62802
navy62802's picture

On a side note, there has also been a motion by the Defense Minister to replace all high-ranking military officers in an attempt to head off a perceived coup d'etat attempt which may be in the works.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:05 | 1834993 Zender67
Zender67's picture

Don't be fooled.  Ulimate "insider" action. 

G-Pap:  Shorts SPY. 

Announces "news of the day" (referendum). 

Buys SPY.

Wash.  Rinse.  Repeat.

G-Pap retires with personal bankroll in tact. 

Moves to a more conservative country than the USA, such as..........................

France.

 

Wed, 11/02/2011 - 05:07 | 1835958 Zender67
Zender67's picture

Today: 

Will markets go "risk on" and "melt up" today?

G-Pap announcement about 1415 EDT (the "bad news")?

Sinking stocks/Euro in last two hours?

Will be interesting to watch news cycle and the programmed (HFT) response.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:05 | 1834995 juangrande
juangrande's picture

" At what point do the crazy pills run out"            I'm afraid crazy is just like fiat currency... there's too much in the system and we need a crash and burn to purge it!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:08 | 1835002 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"Greece peaked on 400 B.C." Larry Kudlow
"Larry Kudlow did, too." Greece.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:12 | 1835011 wang (not verified)
wang's picture

comment of the day award

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:14 | 1835016 Pumpkin
Pumpkin's picture

It is absolutely disgusting to see the world and Europe go ape shit because the people are to decide matters for themselves.  FUCK THEM ALL!  I hope the Greeks tell the banks to shove the debt up their asses!

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:14 | 1835019 devo
devo's picture

January is far away. This vote will never happen.

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:24 | 1835042 CrashisOptimistic
CrashisOptimistic's picture

 

It's more likely to be moved up.

The EU and the US do not want this weighing on 2011 returns. The pension funds of the US MUST HAVE 8%/yr or they can't make payments.

The S&P is down about 5% as of now YTD.  They have to get this weight off it within 60 days.

 

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:15 | 1835021 ImNotExposed
ImNotExposed's picture

So, did you hear the one about the rumors of a coup and the sacking of the top echelon of the Greek military?

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2055872/Greece-referendum-Crisis...

Tue, 11/01/2011 - 20:18 | 1835029 xcehn
xcehn's picture

The eurocrats' desperation at keeping Greece in the Eurozone is tellingly scary. Waiting to see how this plays out come January is going to leave the markets in massive turmoil and destabilise the Euro. Bailing out the European banks is proving to be very complicated indeed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-15537557

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