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In Past Week Americans Pull The Most Money From Stock Market Farce Since US Downgrade, Despite Market Surge

Tyler Durden's picture


As if we needed another confirmation that the sad joke of a market has now succeeded in driving virtually everyone out courtesy of precisely the kind of bullshit we saw in the last 30 minutes of trading today, here comes ICI with the latest weekly fund flow data. It will not surprise anyone that in the week in which the S&P rose by a whopping 8 points on absolutely nothing but more lies, rumors and innuendo, US retail investors pulled a whopping $6.7 billion from domestic equity funds: the most since the week after US downgrade when a near record $23 billion was withdrawn. Only unlike then when the market bombed, this time it simply kept rising, and rising, and rising. In other words, every ES point higher serves no other purpose than to provide an even more attractive point for the bulk of that now extinct class known as investors to call it a day, and pull their cash out of this unprecedented shitshow that central planning has converted the market into. And for those keeping score, a total of $123 billion has now been pulled from stocks in 2011, well over the $98 billion withdrawn in 2010.

There's nobody left: just the occasional robot.

SkyNet has won.


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Wed, 12/07/2011 - 17:50 | 1956399 redpill
redpill's picture

Know when to walk away, know when to run...

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:02 | 1956446 economics1996
economics1996's picture

You know the shit is going to hit the fan when the world is waiting on the agreement of a group of socialist, fascist, Keynesian, retards.

Learn how to hunt fools.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:05 | 1956454 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

The President's Working Group must own half of the equitie market.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:08 | 1956470 billhilly
billhilly's picture

Damn, being short in this market feels like I just walked through an automatic car wash.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:10 | 1956478 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Long straddle and play the volatility from both sides

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:42 | 1956576 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

trade a strip straddle if you,re bearish
buy 1 ATM june 12 call option and at the same time
buy 2 ATM june 12 put option

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 21:44 | 1956963 Hedge Fund of One
Hedge Fund of One's picture

... and trade a smaller ratio of short options against them to protect against time decay.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:12 | 1956482 Stares straight...
Stares straight ahead's picture

You need to stick that hog a little lower "hunter".

You lunged him to death.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:33 | 1956544 max2205
max2205's picture

Shitshow. Lol

When everyone is in money markets, that's when the real shitshow starts because money markets are gonna blow up first.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:59 | 1956735 King_of_simpletons
King_of_simpletons's picture

And that is when the sheep will wake up and become "freedom fighters". Real pitch forks, chaos and such.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 20:51 | 1956833 economics1996
economics1996's picture


Thu, 12/08/2011 - 09:44 | 1958001 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

Why does your video show people who have no idea what to do with the hog once they catch one?

Mon, 12/12/2011 - 15:58 | 1971326 Stares straight...
Stares straight ahead's picture

In hindsight, I think it was used as an instance in which people need to learn how to hunt.  Not as an example of his hunting prowess. 

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 17:52 | 1956403 JLee2027
JLee2027's picture

Bank run is ON!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:45 | 1956588 SheepleLOVEched...
SheepleLOVEcheddarbaybiscuits's picture

if 95% of retail investors are wrong, this means markets are going higher purely from a contrarian perspective

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:54 | 1956610 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Retail investor can't afford to lose any mo fiat.

Core Logic is out with the state-by-state housing value change for the past 12 months, chart via Dr.Bubble . OUCH !

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 17:53 | 1956407 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

So is this not totally bullish? It seems to make it much easier to manipulate it up if there is nobody left.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 17:54 | 1956409 AcidRastaHead
AcidRastaHead's picture

HeHe, shitshow.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 17:57 | 1956415 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

I have done my part, told my folks to dump half of their mutual fund holdings....and to dump the other half if Santa and his 'green' nosed reindeers show up this xmas.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:11 | 1956480 fonestar
fonestar's picture

I do my part too by visiting the fine momos on CNBC chat and reminding them that even the 2 watt bulbs in mutual funds are brighter than they are and got the hell out.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 17:57 | 1956416 Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Going long on the Bank of Sealy.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 17:57 | 1956417 Savyindallas
Savyindallas's picture

how does the market melt up if everone is withdrawing?  Who is buying? 

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 17:59 | 1956427 economics1996
economics1996's picture

David Corzine got some GS $$$$$$.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 17:59 | 1956431 dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

401(k)s and they won't know until after the New Year where a unceremonious dump will follow.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:45 | 1956708 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

I am SO glad I didn't sign up for my employer's plan (cheap fuckers dont match anyways; however, I had to OPT OUT of it - what a racket).

The guys who are pulling their cash out have the smart people working for them.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 23:02 | 1957102 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

I did, and after I figured out the racket, I stopped contributing, did the max loans (50%) twice, buying PMs.

Fuck 'em.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 06:09 | 1957702 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

We got out of ours.


The Board met and made new policity effective immediately on 401k. ANy employee holding 5K or less can cash out immediately while any others above 5K is converted into a Annuity payable at 62.


One annuity was good. But have thought about using Wentworth or some other service to pry the money loose lump sum and screw the remaining 5 years of payouts...

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 09:12 | 1957912 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

I hear you but you have to worry about the ability of the insurance company to pay out the annuity at age 62. Really worry.  An annuity is an unsecured promise to pay (albeit "regulated"), not unlike a credit default swap with no collateral.

Fri, 12/09/2011 - 16:32 | 1964183 dracos_ghost
dracos_ghost's picture

Great explanation. One problem is that the "regulated" part is on shaky ground too. Just search PBGC and pension short falls. Just because they send you a quarterly statement, doesn't mean the money is there.

That annuity trick is not legal. Fight back. They have fiduciary responsibilities to provide multiple options(see ERISA). It's just a way to kick the can down the road and avoid a 401k "bank run". No different than insurance companies selling hurricane insurance before a storm and then declaring bankruptcy after the event.

These scumbags treat people's pensions as their own money(ie MF Global). It has to stop.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 09:49 | 1958025 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

How is that legal? They force anyone with over $5,000 to go into an annuity? If it is Fixed they force you to get the terrible interest rates that are around thanks to ZIRP. If it is Variable, I'm sure the manager forces you into the stock market bubble.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:01 | 1956440 DavidC
DavidC's picture

Algos, Robots, SkyNet.

And yes, I had a nice short position on that got reamed.


Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:09 | 1956466 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

"how does the market melt up if everone is withdrawing? Who is buying?"

That's why it melts up. very low volume. if everyone pulled out and there were only two traders left they could decide manipulate the market and transact the spx at 1600 if they wanted to for a whopping 27% gain

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:58 | 1956618 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Bizarro World, where the marginal buyer/seller not only represents the market, it IS the market.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:09 | 1956475 FMR Bankster
FMR Bankster's picture

Light volume ramp. Takes less cash. And check margin debt, quite high given where the markets at. In other words hedge funds in and cash equity holders out. If your long be very careful here. Markets walking on air. We could move higher into yearend but I'd be concerned the bids fall away sooner.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:18 | 1956650 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

the smaller the market the easier it becomes to manipulate higher or for that matter lower. The big problem which the fool Bernanke fails to recognize is that the fewer market participants the smaller the wealth effect for the people he claims to care for. Bernanke is a failure and no one can defend his policy.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 23:40 | 1957168 poor fella
poor fella's picture

If he really wanted to re-inflate the ponzi - he should have came out of the closet and told everyone 'the ramp' is on, buy stocks, even if you can't afford food or gas, because stocks are going up. We'll all have skin in the game. Make it illegal to NOT be in the market - the children will buy equities of those retiring and their children will buy stocks to pay for their parents retirement and.... on ... and on........

That would work, right!!?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 17:59 | 1956424 Esculent 69
Esculent 69's picture

Does nobody see this is all intentioal? collapsing currencies all over the world and now the US has been put in the position to print and print and print to ultimately collapse the dollar. This has been an effort to get rid of the dollar as the worlds reserve currency as stated by china, russia, opec.  the fiat system was put in an awkward postion to have DC to  save their banker and wallstreet buddies even though by printing only to lose our freedom and sovereignty through a eventual world currency / planned economy.  Lehman was allowed to fall because of the importance in the global markets via their commercial and money market accounts.  when that froze up and no one had anywhere to run, they ran to printing money.  George Soros sums it up best in his Open Society where he seeks no borders or nations or cities or towns. You may dismiss him but all you have to do is read his books and his theory of reflexivity and falability.  No Joke

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:22 | 1956515 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Well that's putting the cart before the egg.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 20:57 | 1956852 Chuck Walla
Chuck Walla's picture

Soros does nothing to benefit anyone but himself.  

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 17:59 | 1956425 Alex Kintner
Alex Kintner's picture

Ghost in the Machine. Not kidding.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:17 | 1956504 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Aurora Ex Machina.


I did tell ya all...

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 20:09 | 1956760 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Whatsamatta? Too good to use y'all? ;-)

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 23:06 | 1957112 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

I prefer youse.  As in, "All youse guys know I tolja ta buy PMs, and now youse guys ain't gotta pot ta piss in or a window to trow it out...."

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 17:59 | 1956426 TradingJoe
TradingJoe's picture

Sheeples are paying down debt, not "fleeing" the market!!! Only the ones with investable assets and little to no debt will stay inn! IMHO!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 17:59 | 1956428 panda
panda's picture

Was it not because of the MF Global event?  I would forget about the 8% and keep my cash.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 17:59 | 1956429 fonzanoon
fonzanoon's picture

I know a lot of people who are dumping their horseshit funds but instead are buying individual dividend paying blue chips etc. I don't know if/how that is accounted for here.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 17:59 | 1956430 Cdad
Cdad's picture

I'm sure Mary Schapiro of the SEC is right on this...just as soon as she finishes her three year long meetings with Wall Street criminal banking syndicate giants like J. Dimon...about what SEC rules Mary should just forget about.

What an absolute disgrace.  By contrast, dumb ass Bob Pisani summed it all up with, "Well, it [IMF rumor] may have been denied, but it moved the markets."  This is the state of "journalism" at the BlowHorn [CNBC].  


Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:31 | 1956541 Snake Plissken
Snake Plissken's picture

Occupy the SEC

Occupy the FED

Occupy the MSM

Occupy Goldman

Occupy the "Tribe"


Wed, 12/07/2011 - 22:39 | 1957068 SillySalesmanQu...
SillySalesmanQuestion's picture

 SEC = Shred Evidence Completely

          Save Every Corporation

          Sheep Excrement Commission

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:00 | 1956434 f16hoser
f16hoser's picture

The Golden JackAss Jim Willie even says your money isn't safe in your TD Ameritrade accounts. Crazy times we live in. I'll be sitting this one out for awhile.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:09 | 1956639 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

With what has happened at MFG, it's obvious that nothing is safe anywhere (other than in hand), as even the facade cannot be maintained any longer. I was just over at Jim Sinclair's Mineset, where he posted another article about getting your stock certificates, rather than let them live digitally in the system.

So, it isn't even limited to just money, but even speculative money substitutes.

Worse yet, was another article by Greg Hunter discussing MF Global impacting farmers who suddenly have no money to access in order to buy seeds for next spring. Instead of relying on their own capital, they may be forced to borrow if there is no resolution soon (which, of course, we know isn't coming).

So, lets recap, Corzine takes down MFG, MFG takes down the commodity futures market, which takes out the farmers, which takes out the food supply.


Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:27 | 1956672 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

worse yet tomorrow we get to see the congrssional show on Corzine and isn't it funny how Blogo gets 14 yrs. I'm betting Corzine doesn't see 14 days.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:47 | 1956711 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

...unless he goes on a cruise, and spends two weeks on the beach.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 20:04 | 1956749 hairball48
hairball48's picture

The Golden Jackass ROCKS!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:00 | 1956436 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

Where have all the bagholders gone?

Long time passing.

Where have all the bagholders gone?

Long time ago.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:11 | 1956644 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Goldman's picked them, every one.

When will they ever learn?

When will they ever learn?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:00 | 1956438 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

Burn baby burn!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:01 | 1956441 Madcow
Madcow's picture

better safe than homeless

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:01 | 1956443 nobusiness
nobusiness's picture

So are we still sure that all that FED money is sitting in treasuries???  no it is in the ES Minii, SPY, IWM and QQQ.  This is going to end badly.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:01 | 1956444 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Yup, markets are nothing more than a game of Monopoly now.  

Who cares that the world economy is collapsing around our heads?  I've got three hotels on boardwalk!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:03 | 1956449 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Perfect!  Now the insiders and algos and do some real gambling.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:22 | 1956513 blu
blu's picture

This may be on topic again:

It's all good fun until someone wakes the firebird and brings a taste of Hell to Wall Street.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:04 | 1956450 Esculent 69
Esculent 69's picture

what do you people expect to do with all of those worthless dollars when the dollar no longer exists? what happens to the companies that lose equity and go out of business cause they have no money that is worth a damn.  so much history to say this doen't work and yet we are continuing this path to destruction.  dollars in bonds and any other financial intrument will be worthless. So why do you continue to trade in a dying dollar. got gold or silver or guns?????  Oh ya and lots of TP cause lots of people are going to shit themselves when this all goes down.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:04 | 1956451 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

This isn't good, how does Robotrader do?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:05 | 1956457 Eireann go Brach
Eireann go Brach's picture

I am waiting for Tyler to tear Jamie Fuckface Dimon a new one after his "Stop Bashing the Rich " rant today!

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 09:15 | 1957919 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

Dimon is clueless.  He will get his.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:06 | 1956459 YoDudeRock
YoDudeRock's picture

I think everyone is sick of this.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:49 | 1956720 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Agreed. I much prefer a real market to a rigged casino.


Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:06 | 1956460 antidisestablis...
antidisestablishmentarianismishness's picture

Sounds like massive amounts of dry powder available.  Somehow that must be bearish.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:35 | 1956547 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Well, if you trade every day and close out all of your positions every day, I guess they can say that there is a lot of cash on the sidelines but that does not mean your cash was not in the market for the day.

I prefeer to do this if at all possible.  That way they cannot count me as a long or as a short.  You cannot be counted as a Short that could cause a short squeeze if you clear out every day.  Same with long positions where they want to shake you out.

The money you make during the day is yours and not in the Market for manipulation thru Gap up or Gap down opens.  Or an upgrade or downgrade.  You are positioned to trade any way you want.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:06 | 1956462 YoDudeRock
YoDudeRock's picture

I think everyone is sick of this.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:08 | 1956467 Let them eat iPads
Let them eat iPads's picture

Bring on the financial transaction tax and put the HFT computers out of work for good.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:09 | 1956471 gaoptimize
gaoptimize's picture

Is anyone concerned that the long run net effect of this is for the Fed and their TBTF financial partners to essentially own and control an increasing amount of the productive capacity of the USA by being the last shareholders standing?..Bought with recently printed fiat?  Isn't this a road to fascism?

What happened to the idea of an "ownership society", where a majority had a stake in the economic performance of companies, and would therefore be motivated to vote to enhance the climate for business and growth?

Has anyone done a study of the performance of companies with diverse and active investor shareholders vs. companies that are largely owned by a smaller number of relatively disinterested institutional asset managers?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:14 | 1956487 Madcow
Madcow's picture

that's their plan.  "deflation" will continue until most people have thrown in the towel - and the banks have been able to foreclose of most of the small businesses, houses, family farms, state parks, etc. etc.   Once Gov-Co has a lock on all sectors of the economy, they'll turn the inflation machine back on and resurrect the economy - owning all the productive assets and having no competitors.  to a central planner, that is perfectly logical

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:17 | 1956656 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

As well as profitable.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:48 | 1956598 Alex Kintner
Alex Kintner's picture

It's  the Pwnership Society now.  I have the memo. I will forward it.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:09 | 1956473 Odin
Odin's picture

SkyNet becomes self aware on December 23, 2011.........Just in time to make out with robo trader underneath the debttoe *cough ..ahem...mistletoe...

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:43 | 1956580 HD
HD's picture

Okay - I'll bite, why is December 23rd important?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:09 | 1956474 kito
kito's picture

still holding my DOG shorts. not doing very well, down over 6 percent......

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:13 | 1956481 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

Got to liquidate what's left of the savings in order to buy junk shit from China for Christmas in order to feel better...

Ho, ho, ho!!!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:14 | 1956485 VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

$123 Billion pulled out?  Big deal!  This is the era of TRILLIONS!!  $123 Billion isn't even chump change these days.  Nothing to see here.  Move along.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:35 | 1956550 Oracle Jones
Oracle Jones's picture

Tyler - Is that still as of 8/11 or is it/there an update to end Nov 11?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:20 | 1956660 Stax Edwards
Stax Edwards's picture

This chart seems to indicate Fund Managers are more bullish now than the last 25 years, as they are 96.5% invested with only 3.5% cash on hand.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:32 | 1956681 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I thought about making the same comment, but I just couldn't get my toungue that firmly in cheek.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 09:21 | 1957933 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

Same. They are chasing the year end goal of meeting or beating the market and the performance of their peers, and have no choice but to go all in, and hold their breath, figuring the worst that happens is that the market dives (in which case their peers are also hammered)  The engineered rise of the equities market in the past 2 weeks has them in a real bind - think about it.  They are behind and now have to catch up, ergo Santa Claus rally.  But it's all air. Europe looms, but if there is a crisis and the ECB relents (both events seem probable) and prints the hell out of the Euro, look out for that rally. The bankers will have won another round, with fat bonuses and cohibas for all, and everything - including the politicians and regulators - firmly under control, and the concepts of justice and rule of law relegated further to the status of quaint but outmoded ideas.


Thu, 12/08/2011 - 06:03 | 1957698 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

... Cash has gone the way of  John Corzine - vanished without a peep.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:38 | 1956685 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

the money may be chump change but the psychological impact of let's face it an irrational and untrusted market will last for a decade or more on this generation of investors. Can you see that. Get it.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:49 | 1956716 VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

Got it!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:14 | 1956486 Seize Mars
Seize Mars's picture

"...this unprecedented shitshow that central planning has converted the market into..."




Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:15 | 1956492 The trend is yo...
The trend is your friend's picture

The contrarion indicator?  If retail is pulling out, doesn't that mean the market is poised to go higher and retial will end up chasing as usual?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:27 | 1956530 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

LOL... What exactly will they be chasing when they're broke? They're pulling their money out to pay bills and spend it.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:17 | 1956505 Lady Heather...UNCLE
Lady Heather...UNCLE's picture

...stopped trading 3 months ago. Actually got out at a miniscule profit money wise, but at huge expense emotionally/physically. Trading US markets from New Zealand is a motherfucker and I have been a bear for a long time. Not now though...have been beaten. This is a fucked up manipulated bullshit casino. Bought my last 15k tranche of physical gold at 1640 and NZD at .83. Print away motherfuckers...I am satisfactorily positioned. Will miss trading (after 27 years of it!).

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:22 | 1956512 Wags
Wags's picture

I am out of the market. I may miss some profits but I won't return until I believe it is an honest game to play.

Besides I received a call from the "Jon Corzine Bat Phone" to buy!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:24 | 1956518 Esculent 69
Esculent 69's picture

How the hell do you think all these financial instruments were created if not to give some value to worthless mortgages? The GSE' own more that 70% of all mortgages, that gov't owned.  Fannie Mae operated on the stock market and fudged their #'s to get their bonuses.  this contagion was spread world wide via repeal of glass steagal which gave the banks the ability to be exposed to investment firms that merged with them.  The regulators were the biggest beneficiaries of these GSE's politically who did everything they could to prevent their regulation.  Communists are communits and you should try reading the communist manifesto if only to under stand what these type of people believe. especially if they are useful idiots who buy into hope and change, social and economic justice. these are just emotional ploys to get people to go along with more gov't. Sounds like planning to me.  BTW, what is the first tenant of communism? Abolish private propery. you would never go along with their plans if they were honest in their ideas so they use phrases that invoke emotions and not logical thinking. 

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:26 | 1956526 Esculent 69
Esculent 69's picture

Who was John Corzine btw? A former Governor and a state senator....from New Fucking Jersey, the realm of integrity just below Chicago.  Oh where does our dear leader hail from? Chicago. Corzine was also at the Nut Sach along with every other gov't worm

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:48 | 1956599 SheepleLOVEched...
SheepleLOVEcheddarbaybiscuits's picture

thats don "corzini" to you......

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:32 | 1956542 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

As Eddie Murphy once quipped, the investors may be cashing in to buy the GI Joe with the kungfu grip for little Jimmy at christmas. 


Seriously, it's been noted on a number of occasions on ZH that retail is all but gone. The volume of trades that could have been counted in the billions per day a few years ago on the major exchanges is now in the millions. So what or who is still driving the markets? Why aren't all the brokerages broke? My guess is they will all be filing chpt11 sooner or later, and the only swinging dicks in the markets are the algorithms of the bigger finance houses, the die hards who can't do anything else, and of course Bernanke's pet 21 primary dealers hoovering up every penny they can get to gamble on the markets to bulk up their bonuses. It's a funny old world. 

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 21:48 | 1956969 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

I think the 401K/IRA holdings are still largely untouched.  The percentage of people who can be convinced that the 10% tax penalty is worth paying seems to be pretty small.  I work with mostly uninformed people, and plenty of them are contributing as much as they can to the company-provided 401K.  (I'm doing 1% 'cause it's the smallest amount I can do without having to fill out some paperwork.)

I'd bet the dumber/slower of the companies managing big retirement accounts are probably paying the HFT-bots a few pennies per trade.

Thu, 12/08/2011 - 08:30 | 1957821 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

401Ks - absolutely & kudos for your pension strategy. As for the companies managing big retirement accounts, you have to wonder if anyone actually reads the news these days - it's full of stories about cash strapped ceos dipping into whatever is left of the retirement funds of employees. 


Looking at the performance of equity portfolio managers, the HFT machines they use must be ZX81's. 

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:39 | 1956570 non_anon
non_anon's picture

wat, humans still trade?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:42 | 1956577 lechmm
lechmm's picture

Wait a minute, this is all gibberish!!!!!!!!!. How did people pull out money from mutual funds (implying, the stock market)? With a corkscrew or what?

When "people pull out money from the mutual funds", they actually sell their funds back to the fund company, which then sells it to another mutual fund investor, or ultimately sells the underlying stocks/bonds on the market, to somebody else! I.e, there is the same amount of stocss/bonds as before. The only thing that could have happened is that the people sold their holdings for less than they bought.

And another thing, what about ETFs? Could it be that Americans are selling mutual funds to buy ETFs?

If anything, this sounds to me as a perfect contrary indicator!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:40 | 1956698 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Umm... that "somebody else" is Benron, who bought the stocks from the fund with the purchasing power that used to be within the money now in your hand.

By your logic, if money cannot leave the market, then it cannot enter, either. The trick here that you're missing is price. A real market would show the cash drain as a downward pressure on prices. What we have instead, is a magical levitation, so as not to scare the remainder into racing for the exits faster than they can monetize them.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 20:25 | 1956784 lechmm
lechmm's picture

Stocks "disappear" from the market only if they are repurchased by the company. That is the only way.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:45 | 1956584 mikejody
mikejody's picture

This is probably the worst post I've seen from Tyler. The market is the market. It goes up and down for numerous reasons. It is neither moral nor a-moral, therefore the name-calling of the market is misplaced. Truly, this post sounds as if Tyler has simply lost a lot of money in the market, and just doesn't like it very much. 

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:51 | 1956605 HD
HD's picture

While I can't speak for anyone but myself - the issue is that over the years we have moved from a transparent free market to a poorly regulated debt driven market to now a central planner manipulated and controlled market.


Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:55 | 1956612 mikejody
mikejody's picture

As I said, the market moves for many reasons. We either take advantage of the movement or it takes advantage of us. The market itself is neither moral nor a-moral, right nor wrong.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:21 | 1956662 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

So. you're saying that there's no value to be gained in watching the race for the exits? Interesting.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 21:41 | 1956956 Five8Charlie
Five8Charlie's picture

I disagree.

The market should be neither moral nor immoral. The market should be amoral.

Looks immoral to me right now.



Wed, 12/07/2011 - 22:06 | 1957008 Doomer
Doomer's picture

"It goes up and down for numerous reasons."


And there is the rub.  It may go up and down for many reasons that have nothing to do with the perceived value of the underlying companies.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 22:08 | 1957011 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

If "The market" is rigged, doesn't that make it something other than a market?

Compare the broad averages to the cost of a gallon of milk or any other basic staple over any extended period of time and it is a joke. The stock market is a great tax on "Investors", (there is another fucked up term, " Investors")_... How can anybody call the US markets investing at this point?  Yeah, give your money to the wolves they will take care of it like they always have.


Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:45 | 1956587 doduhdew
doduhdew's picture

I am trying to start a personal compaign asking people to pull their money out of the stock market and not to use credit/debit cards.  It is the only power we have againt the wallstreet and the banks.  I have registered a domain named "" and plan to build a community where you can exchange ideas on how to fight back without getting arrested.  What do you guys think?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:52 | 1956607 lechmm
lechmm's picture

And what do you do with the money? Hide it under the matresse, or in a vault (and pay service fees)?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:23 | 1956664 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Purchase tangible assets that can retain value over time.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 20:14 | 1956771 hairball48
hairball48's picture

You buy gold and silver...and put your bullion in a vault or hide it. :)

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:54 | 1956726 VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

First run all your cards to the moon and then walk on your mortgage and your CC balances.  Nail them to their own cross.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:56 | 1956727 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Until the legal tender status of Fed Notes goes away (allowing the wholesale purchase of the world out of thin air), there's little to done that can be effective in undermining their power. The day you see someone refuse to accept Fed Notes for payment, is the day they are defeated. Until then, they've gotten a choke-hold over our means of sustenance (short of living life as peasants).

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:48 | 1956594 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

It use to be that the Stock Exchange was only for a select few.  That were wealthy and connected enough to be able to participate.  It was only an insiders game.

It has only been over the last 20 to 30 years that Retail was in essence invited to the party to be scalped by the pros, with their 401Ks.

Looks like they want Retail out of the market again.  The best way is to take all of their money and let them go off into the shadows broken.  Maybe then they will trust the People of Wall Street that get a lot of money to manage their money.  So, their money will then disappear with fees.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 21:00 | 1956850 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

What? The stock market has been extracting wealth from suckers since at least 1929 and probably well before that. Recently however, the herd which the wolves prey on has been declining significantly.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:50 | 1956602 Crumblrr
Crumblrr's picture

What is really going on!!!!

 $123 billion this year and 98 billion last year are indication that out market just keep loosing its track!


And it seems that the best thing that an investor can do is to make a move on pulling their money and manage themselves!

When is this going to end? Don't know either!


Visit Crumblrr for exciting Xmas discounts!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:58 | 1956620 r101958
r101958's picture

My 2 cents. People in their 40's, 50's and 60's are (yes, still) getting laid off from their 50k-150k jobs and are pulling out their 401k and pension money (even with the penalties) while the market is in relatively decent shape. They can still get some good value so why wait for another crash? Most in their late 50's and early 60's well remember the crash of 2008 that reduced their 401k value by 50%.  Many of them sense that another crash is likely soon.  Why tempt fate? They take the penalty on the 401k, take as much of a lump sum payment from their pensions as is allowed and allot the remainder to something fairly conservative, if allowed. 

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 20:26 | 1956790 au_bayitch
au_bayitch's picture

I am one of those people. Filling out paperwork for two 401k distributions tonight. If the market falls before i MUST have it, how long do I have to wait for the market to recover? I do not want to work a couple extra years just because the market doesn't fit my schedule.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:59 | 1956623 navy62802
navy62802's picture

We're looking at a nearly 1000 point climb in the Dow over the past 5 trading days. That is market manipulation in its purest form. The only thing that has happened over those five days is that news has continually gotten worse. Algos are going crazy because there is no safe place for their money. So the sentient beings who are invested in the market and who move their money based on human judgment see this irrationality and the run for the door. It's not such a hard thing to understand. There are no safe havens in the market right now.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:02 | 1956630 r101958
r101958's picture

Got to make sure everybody is feeling good so they will go out and spend as much money as they can't afford on plastic baubles for Christmas.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 20:05 | 1956750 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

CNBC: Can we still have a Santa Claus rally? lol

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:59 | 1956626 Maroon Phoenix
Maroon Phoenix's picture

Tyler sounds like he had a bad day.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:26 | 1956668 El Hosel
El Hosel's picture

Welcome to DirtyFuckerVille, have a nice day....   Classic Tyler, very nice.  "Shit shows" are us.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:36 | 1956692 JR
JR's picture

So did the nation.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:42 | 1956702 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Good thing it's merely an abstraction, and not something real.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:19 | 1956657 bill1102inf
bill1102inf's picture

In OTHER news Amazon wants you to go to the store, scan an item into an Amazon App which they will then sell to you at a discount + free shipping + no sales tax.  WTF.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:26 | 1956667 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

Well if the money goes out and the charts go up, who is pushing more money in?


Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:44 | 1956704 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

I'm assuming this is rhetorical, but just in case, I'll spill the beans.

It's you. (by proxy)

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 20:25 | 1956785 HungrySeagull
HungrySeagull's picture

I figured it was us, the tax payer.


The only solution to that would be a complete and total repudition of our current financial system in the markets.


When your last dollar becomes zero and imaginary binarys assigned to you for future debt...

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:34 | 1956679 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

Call it whatever floats the boat, it is future demand. If one heard the inverse that retail investors were long out the ass, the posts about heading to the exits would be extremely pervasive.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:35 | 1956686 JR
JR's picture

They’re desperate; they just bought another day. And that desperation is good news…because it adds another wave of observers who learn the truth about a manipulated market and a manipulated government.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:43 | 1956703 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

And for those keeping score, a total of $123 billion has now been pulled from stocks in 2011, well over the $98 billion withdrawn in 2010.

Benny is keeping score ...he has a printer to fill the hole's like Stalin or Mao taking over agricultural production (same result too)

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 20:00 | 1956739 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Here's the article I referenced above about MFG impacting next year's production. (though it's not Greg Hunter, as I originally stated)

I foresee food riots at the food banks (which are starting to get overwhelmed with requests for aid).

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:58 | 1956734 VelvetHog
VelvetHog's picture

Evertime I see a photo of the Bernank and his little, beady rats' eyes and cute little beard I throw up a little.  Smug little beatch!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 19:59 | 1956736 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

One other factor to consider. If people are leaving the market they are going to park that money somewhere where they believe they will at least get it back. Whether it's pm's or raw land it seems to me this money is being converted out of the stock market for the longer term and never returning. Why? The collapse of MFGlobal tells me that if TPTB want to steal/commingle/take your money they will and alot of people just are not going to take the chance of that occuring. Especially if your family is living on the edge financially.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 20:06 | 1956752 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Thing is, this ain't hedge fund money, it's mutual fund money. These people are likely cashing out to meet current needs far more than they are looking to save wealth over time. I'd bet it ALL goes to current consumption, or debt service on past consumption.

Of course, let's not forget fedgov's 10% cut for all of the early 401 liquidations, allowing the Obummer's to pay for their vacations and whatnot.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 20:07 | 1956756 pacu44
pacu44's picture

End of the world as we know it bitchez!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 20:13 | 1956768 sheep92
sheep92's picture


sp 500 corps are buying back equity at better than $100 billion per quarter or around 8 billion dollars a week.   so even though the world is going to end, for the moment it isn't.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 20:13 | 1956769 AldoHux_IV
AldoHux_IV's picture

If only they can do this to their deposits at the banks and start buying physical then more will be saved from the shit show that our central planners call policy.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 21:08 | 1956872 Robslob
Robslob's picture


Something wicked this way comes...for about 3 years now...

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 22:55 | 1957091 xcehn
xcehn's picture

Fraud Street is seething and demands that the Bernank bail out Europe in time for Bonusmas.  Soooo many people losing jobs in the financial services racket.  And the ripple effects are only just starting to get obvious.  The economy is going waaaaaaay down, despite all the government's lies.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 23:27 | 1957145 besnook
besnook's picture

looks like these dumbasses did it to themselves. baby boomers are retiring so their withdrawals will begin to ramp. unemployed people are withdrawing money with no end in sight for the real number of unemployed and fewer people going into jobs with 401ks or the like which have fueled the market for 20 odd years.  the game is over. better start a new one.

Sun, 12/18/2011 - 03:39 | 1990944 Wulfrano Ruiz Sainz
Wulfrano Ruiz Sainz's picture

I better put this in Spanish.  Otherwise, if in English, I am going to get kicked out of this fine website


En Grecia, en estos momentos, los griegos están retirando sus depósitos de uros en los bancos.  Estos pinches castrados serán pobres pero no son pendejos.  Ellos saben que pronto todos los Bancos del mundo cerrarán sus puertas sin previo aviso.  Para entonces, si alguien quiere tener acceso a su cuenta bancaria, tendrá qué aceptar la Marca de la Bestia, es decir, un microchip que sea visible en la cara o en la mano, después de haber hecho pacto con Satanás para la venta de su alma.”


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