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Paul Brodsky: The Seeds of Our Destruction Were - And Still Are - Sown in the Bond Markets

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Submitted by Chris Martenson

Paul Brodsky: The Seeds of Our Destruction Were - And Still Are - Sown In The Bond Markets

Paul Brodsky does not trust the bond markets. That position may seem strange coming from someone who has spent most of his professional career trading bonds, but it's precisely this insider knowledge that has led him to start directing investors to safer harbors.

In fact, he thinks our credit system is so far out of control that it will cause a massive - and largely unavoidable at this point - devaluation of the US dollar (and most other fiat currencies, as well).

In our interview with Paul, we asked him to explain the reasons for his concern and to detail how he sees a bond market breakdown unfolding. At the heart of the matter is the run-up in overnight systemic repurchase agreements among banks that started in 1994, which goosed the ensuing credit-driven buying orgy in our economy and has left the system much more vulnerable to exogenous shocks as a result:

All the way through 2006 a monetary aggregate called M-3, which was the only aggregate that included repurchase agreements (which is the process by which banks fund themselves with each other) grew almost 12% a year. It is an enormous amount and that basically tells you that this overnight lending among banks provided the fuel from which all of the term credit, the 30-year mortgages, auto loans, and revolving consumer credit came - which of course has never been paid down from whence it came. So in effect, we knew that the system became highly susceptible to any hiccup.

So the system is levered at least 20 to 1 and there is effectively 20 times more debt than money with which to repay it. And so that is a long-winded way of setting the table for where we come down in our macro views. Clearly, it has great ramifications, negative ramifications for the currency and given that the dollar is the world’s reserve currency, we think it has significant ramifications for the global monetary system in general.     

Add to this the lax oversight from the Fed at the time, which as Paul states seemed primarily focused on making sure "banks could expand their balance sheets". Along with the repurchase agreements, the practice of "sweep programs" helped the banks gain unfair advantage while technically not breaking the letter of the law. Chris summarizes this process as:

This is a story of leverage which really began in the mid-nineties. So this is not any particular policy disaster that went off the rails in 2000 or even more recently than that. Interestingly, I have never connected the stop before between the overnights, the repos, and something else that really caught my eye in the mid-nineties. Actually, it was ninety-four or ninety-five.

I don’t know if you know about the sweep programs - for the benefit of listeners who may not, what Greenspan did was he allowed banks to essentially dodge the reserve requirements by "sweeping" demand accounts. And what I mean by that is, if you have money in a checking account, that is yours to demand anytime you want: the banks have to hold a reserve against that, by law, of 10%. But banks were allowed through this policy tweak that the Fed had done, to effectively sweep that money out of that account just before the stroke of midnight.

So that at midnight when they take the snapshot and say, "How much money do you have to hold in reserve against?" they would sweep the money out of the way. The snapshot would be taken, and the bank would say "Look, there is no money, we get to hold very light reserves here." And then the money would get swept back in at let us say, 12:01. But during the snapshot period, oops, it would have disappeared.

That is where I had chased back where this credit bubble really got into high gear. And I thought it was due to the fact that banks were allowed to dodge these reserve requirements, effectively running leverage far, far higher.

At some point, the growing leverage in the system and the rising amount of new credit and money supply leads to ever larger distortions in market pricing. Paul sees this as leading to inflation:

So economics has kind of taken leave of the bond market. The Treasury bond market is no longer we think a true signal of interest rates, where they should be, or a true signal of inflation. It is an interest rate curve that has been distorted by terribly distorted incentives as we see it.

So we understand that. We do not think it is right. We would rather have markets be free to adjust to where they should be, but frankly, we do not see that happening. To your question specifically about will we have something similar to what happened in Greece here in the U.S., we do not think we are ever going to get to that point here. And it is not because we are proud Americans and we think that the U.S. is better in every way than every foreign land; that is not the case at all. We think it is not going to happen here because if anything dire happens in terms of interest rates, like the threat of rising interest rates, you would see the Fed's balance sheet come under severe stress.

I think the Fed is going to have to continue printing. They are going to go to a significant QE3 at some point. I do not know exactly what form it will take but they are going to have to monetize debt. The process of doing that is I am sure your listeners know, is when you buy debt, you print money with which to buy it. That moves new money out, ostensibly into the system but as we have seen it only goes into banks as excess reserves. This process is the exact process of inflation, so if you print a dollar, you are diminishing the purchasing power of that dollar through dilution. And it is a very easy thing to understand that more dollars chasing the same amount of goods and services and assets must drive the price level higher for those goods services and assets. And so what we see happening is, through this process of money printing, we will have rising prices that rise much faster than wage growth or income growth and it is going to make the ability to service debt that much harder.    

It's these growing inflationary pressures that Paul sees leading to an accelerating devaluation of paper currencies in the coming years. He sees a revaluation of the US dollar vs gold as a likely outcome at some future point (estimating gold could reach a price in the neighborhood of $10,000 per ounce if it is indeed re-monetized). 

Ultimately, he recommends investors concerned with protecting the purchasing power of their wealth today get exposure to hard assets that can't be so easily inflated away:

All of these currencies are baseless and are losing their purchasing power versus the goods and services with inelastic demand properties, such as natural resources and things of scarcity. 

Gold should be thought of as cash in the best currency. I would suggest anything scarce with inelastic demand properties, and that is of course how we get energy and how we get agriculture and various other things. They should be considered very strongly.



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Fri, 10/21/2011 - 20:41 | 1799194 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

The bonds of....bonds.

The bonds that bind us.....

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:17 | 1799267 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

Bonds are edible

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:57 | 1799441 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

Just add water. It's called soup.

I love Chris Martenson! And this guy Kyle Bass from Texas too!

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 23:58 | 1799529 spiral_eyes
Sat, 10/22/2011 - 01:23 | 1799587 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

bond index up nearly 6% when in include divds.


Bernanke about to buy up some more US bonds.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 20:09 | 1800733 Justaman
Justaman's picture

The strategy of buying debt by increasing the same underlying liabilities is akin to robbing Peter (base of the monetary system) to pay Paul (Treasury).  It should be obvious that it is a move of desperation and it ultimately leads toward a defunct system.  

The seeds were sown when citizens allowed the Administration to issue liabilities without assets to back them up.  I believe this was last commenced in 1971.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:41 | 1799312 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture

There is effectively 20 times more debt than money = Ponzi


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:59 | 1799339 Michael
Michael's picture

Has anyone ever lived through a complete and total worldwide bond market colapse? I hear it's a lot of fun.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:10 | 1799362 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture

A little history lesson for you:

The Great Bond Crash of the 1930's

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 12:04 | 1799951 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Good man Quixnot. None of us are going to solve problems without facts, cause and effect. Not to say the carnage already here and growing is going to be fun. It is not that this time is different in cause and effect of the Central Bank model it is that the effects are going to be greatly amplified on the way up in the boom (happened) and the ongoing bust.

Some of the nuances from then and now are demographic imbalance and the rate of business. These nuances make adjusting more difficult. I know I am generalizing and this is a comment thread not a dissertion.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 15:04 | 1800261 Sam Clemons
Sam Clemons's picture

Just posted this:

See the 2nd chart.  Are those spikes around 1930 the yield rate increasing as your bond price chart shows?   Looks like a rise to about 10% from 7.5%.  Seems like the magnitude would be more considering your chart.  But you are exactly right, rates did rise then and then fell for some time.  Is there a difference in the amount of margin used to buy bonds now?  I assume one big difference is outright monetization of central banks now.  I think we somewhat restricted ourselves then using common sense, a forgotten relic.



Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:31 | 1799403 o2sd
o2sd's picture

You made a call of total Armageddon for Oct 10/11th. I still have faith in you, have you set another date?

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 02:08 | 1799607 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture

I assume you're talking to Michael (as I made no such prediction), but I will say this about that:

The 'MeriKan sheeple are heading towards their own, personal Minsky Moments, and by 2013 this will become an exponential phenom enmasse from sea-to-shining-sea.

Book It!

Been fun all, I can see that spending time here (and elsewhere on the net) serves -0- useful purpose for me and my preparations for the future.

Have a lot a things left still to accomplish, before it's time to dig in for the Kondratieff Winter and what that will inevitably mean...

QN Out!

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 07:35 | 1799732 Lord Welligton
Lord Welligton's picture

Been fun all, I can see that spending time here (and elsewhere on the net) serves -0- useful purpose for me and my preparations for the future.

Inclined to agree.

Seeing what's happening and being powerless to change it one can merely prepare.

I will keep informed but not with the fascination of the past.

They, the politicians, could have made different choices. They did not.

The cake is baked.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 09:20 | 1799793 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

pride goeth before the fall - Herodotus

if you have a garden and a library, you have everything you need - Cicero

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 10:02 | 1799837 falak pema
falak pema's picture

and an apple tree and a vineyard and an olive tree and pomegranate and apricot and figue trees; Thats good dietry right there.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 10:21 | 1799850 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

having listened through Brodsky twice now, it's funny hearing someone say you are so fucked in a such a quiet, soft spoken manner 

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 12:08 | 1799957 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

It is useful stepping back for a few weeks to pause, have introspection and recharge. Your sense of community is part of your DNA and reflecting pyschology tells me you'll be back. Peace.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 00:49 | 1799565 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture



I'm pretty sure it get so bad, words begin losing 'l's!

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 06:18 | 1799701 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture


Sat, 10/22/2011 - 07:51 | 1799738 youngman
youngman's picture

This time..I assume....some people will not live thru it..

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 23:25 | 1801166 Two Face
Two Face's picture

"They're schemers trying to control their little worlds.  I'm not a schemer.  I try to show the schemers how pathetic their attempts to control things really are."

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 02:11 | 1799609 anonnn
anonnn's picture

PBrodsky notes that only M3 includes repurchase agreements.

 I did not know that vital point, so mention it here for others to grasp it. No wonder "official" M3 disappeared.

 Thanks to PB and of course TD for this forum.


Sat, 10/22/2011 - 03:22 | 1799636 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

M3: M2 plus large and long-term deposits. Since 2006, M3 is no longer tracked by the US central bank.[15] However, there are still estimates produced by various private institutions.


Sat, 10/22/2011 - 08:34 | 1799760 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

The invaluable John Williams being one of them. Behold the crash of the Banking System and Dr. Bernanke's furious reflation effort:

Kinda reminds me of this:

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 09:59 | 1799834 Roscoe
Roscoe's picture

What is the significance of M3 crossing below M1 & M2 in 2009 on the shadowstats chart you link to above. Does it mean that long term deposits are shrinking, or is it the amount of printed money being put into the system, and is the difference between M3 and the others a simple measure of inflation?


Thanks. -Rosoce

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 14:26 | 1800111 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

greenspan passed the torch to bernanke jan.31.2006 - thus feb.1.2006 the 'bb' is in complete control but waits ~ two months until mar.23.2006 to fulfill or for a better word implementing greenspan's final wish

ref:  *(click-on ; "oops, did you mean" - gets you there,...

**this only backs up the authors acknowledgement,... if link fails which it prbably will go to :  

note:   question we all should all be asking___ to [pdf] "occ's strategic plan: fiscal years 2012-2016" @ click - google search

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 16:24 | 1800374 Return2Sanity
Return2Sanity's picture

I believe that M3, because it includes banks repos (aka loans between banks), can be seen as a measure of credit expansion or contraction. From 2008 to 2010, the Fed was aggressively expanding money supply (M1 & M2) to offset the contraction of credit that shows up in M3. Because the chart shows year to year % change, rather than total amounts, it does not imply that the amount of M3 fell below the amount of M1 & M2.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 18:55 | 1800591 Roscoe
Roscoe's picture

Thanks R2S, that's makes sense. -Roscoe

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 05:30 | 1799684 FinHits
FinHits's picture

You seem to prefer light bondage over current heavy bondage? I am sure They can whip you back in to shape in no time.

You see, in the Western culture you can lose all the face you never had, as long as banks and funds don't lose even one percent of bond face value.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 11:45 | 1799926 Greenspan Shrugged
Greenspan Shrugged's picture

This guy is full of shit.  Look at the commitment of traders index on the usd below.  Everytime that indicator shows a fluctuation in large positions like that the usd spikes. He's just looking to take the suckers money.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 13:48 | 1800157 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Prof. E. Ray Canterbery said it much better in his book:

Wall Street Capitalism:  the theory of the bondholding class

(And quite some time back, I might add!)

But allow me to simplify it and cut through all the bulltwacky:

In the 1920s, the Wall Street banksters did an ultra-leveraged run, lasting for approximately 7 years, with the Great Crash of 1929.

In 2000, the Wall Street banksters did another ultra-leveraged run, lasting for approximately 7 years, culminating with the mid-2007 meltdown beginning.

I don't know why 7 years is the operative timeframe; perhaps their Ponzi-Tontine scam can only last that long before its collapse?

But that is it put clearly and simply --- regardless of the securitized financial constructs used either time, the scam and the results are always the same.


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 20:39 | 1799199 km4
km4's picture

At some point, the growing leverage in the system and the rising amount of new credit and money supply leads to ever larger distortions in market pricing. Paul sees this as leading to inflation. It's these growing inflationary pressures that Paul sees leading to an accelerating devaluation of paper currencies in the coming years.


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:08 | 1799253 rocker
rocker's picture

 What does any of it matter. Let's see. The bond holders are the last to paid in a default.

 So they would like us to believe Lehman was not bailed out. Oh yeah, what because the stock holders got fucked. The people.

But wait, the bond holders were bailed out. The Banksters. Half a lie. But a lie is a lie. And we payed to bail the bondholders out.

Like when CNBC first reported on the Greek bailouts and complained that it was to bail out the people.

Oh yeah, bailing out the bond holders is what it is about. Nothing more and nothing less.

For the people it means they want to tax the people to bail out the bondholders again. To be precise, to bail out the Banksters.

And, in case anybody wants to know why the markets are going up. Because the HFTs believe Bernanke's Swap Lines will do just that.

Then there is the market manipulation, either by POMO, (the FED) or some other force with big bucks that can do the rigging of markets.

It does not make sense for markets to go up with all that short interest, (not a record level now), and the exiting of people leaving the markets.

It is rigged. Plain and simple. So the Bankster Cartel and CEO's can get their bonuses. We paid for Lloyd Blankfien's 100 million dollar bonus. Right.

America is a disgrace anymore, I have given up believing this is any thing less than a government for and by the CEO's and Corportations of America.

We the People just don't fucking matter anymore. We the people are fucked.  We are a Fucking Disgrace for taking it anymore.

Look at Italy, Greece, and even some of the Mid East nations. Those people are getting it done.

Americans are bullied by Fox, CNBC, CNN, NYPD and Bloomberg.  Looks like chicken littles to me. Tell me I am wrong and why. Please!!!

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:25 | 1799281 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

i read that to gain a 50% reduction in its debt greece would have to implement a 100% haircut for bond holders.

hahahaha - when you look at greece its a great story.

Greece has a long history of defaulting on its debts.its first default was in the 4th century BC, when 13 Greek city states borrowed money from the Temple of Delos. Most of them never paid the money back and the Temple took an 80% loss.
Modern Greece issued its first big loan in 1824, three years after the start of the War of Independence. It was for £472,000 so it could keep fighting the Turks, secured on London Stock Exchange. There was another loan for £1.1 million the following year. No interest payments were ever made on those two loans, after which Greece was locked out of the international financial markets for decades. The interest kept accruing and Greece eventually settled for £10 million in 1878, at which point it was allowed to borrow again.

Since then there have been five more defaults. right up there with Venezuela and Ecuador.

the modern Greek economy is built on three things: shipping, tourism and sucking up to rich countries.

most of its shipbuilding industry has long since left for China and Korea. Tourism is still viable, but no state can support itself with tourism alone.

After independence, Britain used Greece to leverage its position against the Ottoman Turks, and then later America played a similar role in supporting the Greeks against the Soviets.

In each case massive of amounts of cash were poured into the country that didn't have to be paid back. Turkey is now a member of NATO and the Cold War is over, so no one needs to pay Greece as part of their strategic interests in the region any more.
All of this means Greece is rooted. It has never been able to compete without a steady stream of capital from abroad that it didn't pay back, and that goes back to ancient times.

and its women are hairy.


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:51 | 1799325 rocker
rocker's picture

But if the bond holders of Greece are not paid off. Does it not mean the banks of France and Germany would be in trouble.

Hence, the banks of America because of contagion. Even JPMorgan said their risk is at a level they could manage.

Isn't what Jamie Diamon really saying if the Bernanke, (FED) steps in and bails them out too. Tell me I'm wrong.

Barton Biggs said they will have to do something about all the PIGS.  Who are they ???  The Fed ???

I agree with lots of what Reggie brings to the table.

I am just not sure that they won't bail the shit out of everybody to save their Banking Cartel.

If anybody remembers a little history. When Russia and Argentina defaulted and bond holders were not bailed out,

GDP went up every year after for many years.  If we do not allow our banks, Europe's Banks to default tell me why,

"We are Worse than Japan Now" does not apply. 

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:36 | 1799413 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

That actually makes sense. Now continue connecting the dots.

You are now at the whitehouse.

What you see is a disease, a serious cancerous, death sentence disease.

You want "class warfare"?

It is today as it has always been.

The political class VS. the people.

That is how it works. Like stealing wallets from corpses. These superhero satanist have their very own private little club.

Want in?

Ya gotta show-em first that you have what 'it' takes.

'It' takes an absence of humanity. 'it' takes a willingness to destroy other 'creatures' in order to prevail.

'It' above all else desires power.

Just choose your sides Ladies and Gentelmen, cause this shit will go down and affiliations will be the name of the game.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:52 | 1799424 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture

I come from a family (father's side) that was fuck-you wealthy for generations, and I've known some seriously wealthy folks in my time on this mudball.

Something that sheeple don't know about "rich" folks is that many crave power the way that the average wannabe bankster craves wealth.

And to tell you the truth, when I think of anrcho-commies like OWS that want to create a Free Shit Army Multiverse, sometimes I wonder if TPTB aren't doing a better job than I give them credit for...

Sometimes I wonder about this; but always I yearn for restoration of the AMERICAN experiment: A Democratic Republic founded on the RULE of LAW, INDIVIDUAL LIBERTY, and PRIVATE PROPERTY RIGHTS.

Perhaps ol' Ben was right after all...

 As Benjamin Franklin was leaving the building where, after four months of hard work, the Constitution had been completed and signed, a lady asked him what kind of government the convention had created. A very old, very tired, and very wise Benjamin Franklin replied; "A Republic, ma’am if you can keep it."

And dam all if we didn't go ahead and lose it...

93d Congress
Report No. 93-549
1st Session




Since March 9, 1933, the United States has been in a state of declared national emergency. In fact, there are now in effect four presidentially-proclaimed states of national emergency: In addition to the national emergency declared by President Roosevelt in 1933, there are also the national emergency proclaimed by President Truman on December 16, 1950, during the Korean conflict, and the states of national emergency declared by President Nixon on March 23, 1970, and August 15, 1971.

These proclamations give force to 470 provisions of Federal law. These hundreds of statutes delegate to the President extraordinary powers, ordinarily exercised by the Congress, which affect the lives of American citizens in a host of all-encompassing manners. This vast range of powers, taken together, confer enough authority to rule the country without reference to normal Constitutional processes.

Under the powers delegated by these statutes, the President may: seize property; organize and control the means of production; seize commodities; assign military forces abroad; institute martial law; seize and control all transportation and communication; regulate the operation of private enterprise; restrict travel; and, in a plethora of particular ways, control the lives of all American citizens.


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 23:24 | 1799483 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

You Americans are truly flucked. At least China citizens are told the rulers are omni-potent and will do what they want.

Fools awakening. Old Mr. Franklin didn't see the Israeli's sneaking in the back door!

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 23:34 | 1799502 rocker
rocker's picture

Have not heard from you for a while now. Always enjoy your prognosis and insight. 

So would I not be correct that when Homeland Security and it's statues became relevant it included,

that no citizen may protest and have the right to assemble in public places as Bloomberg and the NYPD are doing right now.

There has been a couple who were arrested for assembly and sent to a off jurisdiction site to be arraigned at a precinct that

was not to the arresting officers. They were told that it was because of the threat to national security under homeland security.

Who started that homeland security thing???  Better yet, do we need more of this Bullshit from Bloomberg and his thugs, the NYPD.

Just to add, I had respect for the NYPD. They stole their own honor when they went against the people they are paid to protect.

But then again. Jamie Diamon and J.P. Morgan did donate, with our tax payer money, 4.6 Million to the NYPD to protect his street.

What do you say. Is it all about the money. Sure seems so.  Corporate Greed knows no limit. Eh.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 02:16 | 1799614 AustriAnnie
AustriAnnie's picture

Lincoln started it with war powers during civil war.  And it led to where we are today, with the help of many.

Slippery slope.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 06:27 | 1799702 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

reply all the way back to the big duke: greece clearly has major problems, and they're clearly not the only ones, but hairy women are not one of them, imo.

Sun, 10/23/2011 - 18:17 | 1802807 BigJim
BigJim's picture

I've... 'known'... a few Greek women. None of them were particularly hairy.

In fact - the hairiest women in my experience have all been Anglos.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 09:42 | 1799816 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

"Who started that homeland security thing???"

Why that would of course be the government son! Or as you might prefer, the massa (just so long as he be promisin' lots of free shit).

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 18:54 | 1800442 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture

Is it all about the money.

No. "It's" all about power & control...

"The few who understand the system, will either be so interested from it's profits or so dependant on it's favors, that there will be no opposition from that class." — Rothschild Brothers of London, 1863

  "Give me control of a nation's money and I care not who makes it's laws" — Mayer Amschel Bauer Rothschild

Divide and conquer; same shit, different century...

Lech Walesa Not Attending #OccupyWallStreet in New York After Discovering Hard-Left Organizers

The Polish champion of freedom and liberty, founder of Solidarity, winner of the 1984 Nobel Peace Prize, and first President of modern Poland Lech Walesa had been rumored to possibly be traveling to New York to stand with Occupy Wall Street protesters.

Based on our discussion and intervention, President Walesa is not going to get involved with the OWS.  He is not comfortable with the “organizations” behind the movement.

This spring, when President Obama visited Poland, President Walesa refused to meet with him.

America is a center-right country politically.  The Occupy movement, at its core, is a hard-left movement. If successful, America would cease to be governed on our founding principles of freedom and liberty. Thus, we react to the news that Lech Walesa will not support the OWS movement with much thankfulness.

OWS: The Perestroika Deception Develops a Face

In recent weeks, every American has watched with morbid curiosity as swarms of hate-filled, sputtering communist loons and Hippie-wannabees have taken to the streets, shutting down cities and leaving a path of destruction wherever they go.  Although many Americans disagree with the stated agenda of these radicals, most think them harmless, dismissing their acts as pathetic attempts to resurrect the failed social movements of the sixties.

But this group of determined radicals is not to be laughed at.  Lisa Fithian, the primary OWS organizer, is an unrepentant communist and proponent of government and economic destabilization as a means of achieving totalitarian centralization along communist lines.  Writing for a socialist rag, Fithian once stated, “I have no issue with property destruction…We’re in a society where property is idolized, so a lot of people don’t get it yet that it doesn’t really matter.”

While this should shock Americans (and would, if the facts were being reported) this is nothing new.  This is just the latest tactic in a long-term strategy that has been quietly moving forward for decades.  I am speaking of a high-level strategy designed to thwart American resistance to communist infiltration known as “Perestroika.”

Nothing more to contribute, it's all been said 1,000,000^2+; As a man without a country, without children, without a culture with which to associate, I now longer care (much), so I am done trying & will prepare...

Either We The People elect Ron Paul in 2012, or You The Sheeple will surely lose (everything).

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 20:53 | 1800842 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

pauls only chance is to get on the independent ticket or take a back seat to romney

what's even scarier is romney going with cain to get the black vote - why?

barry will get the entire black vote which will put him over the top for the very reason 'tptb' like certainty

i'd just like to reiterate that because were here on this fantasic zh blog, the rest of the dumbed-down public still watches nancy grace, and dancing with the stars

i agree with your thesis wholeheartedly but ron's getting tired from speaking to the deaf and dumb who just don't realize the severity of the immediate situation,... the dire situation,... the pathetically hopeless situation!

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 14:17 | 1800208 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Something that sheeple don't know about "rich" folks is that many crave power the way that the average wannabe bankster craves wealth.

Truer words never spoken.

After you are so filthy rich you can have anything you want,the void is still there(just look at the politicians and seekers of the office of POTUS in 12).

Your bored to tears with materialism to a large degree, and the next rung up is POWER.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 13:51 | 1800166 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

"But if the bond holders of Greece are not paid off. Does it not mean the banks of France and Germany would be in trouble."

But if the banks of Germand (principally) and France didn't flood Greece with their products in return for loans -- after Greece joined the EU, thus killing Greece's internal industries, then Greece would be in much better shape.  But the game is always the same, regardless of which side of the Atlantic or Pacific it's being played on.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 10:00 | 1799835 falak pema
falak pema's picture

gilette or oreal can cure that. Besides to some all cats are grey in the dark. I'm talking about those ruskos in Cyprus.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 12:13 | 1799970 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

hey, 6!  good literary "bookends" device there around the hair theme!


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:58 | 1799338 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

No doubt that you inadvertently failed to mention MSNBC? Or is it that the corporation that indoctrinates you is somehow exempt from finger pointing?

If you don't get it, then you are it.

Leftist are such fucking morons.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 23:34 | 1799499 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

the more you invoke directions, the less you have

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 23:45 | 1799511 rocker
rocker's picture

If you mean to myself, rocker. Sorry, they are just as bad. The MSM just plain SUCKS. So don't tag me.

I don't like any of them. Because they pit us against them. No "US" implied to anybody.

Actually I gave up on them. But I will trash you one notch for the hey of it.

You see, it's not about the stupid right, (in reality they do favor the rich, self inflicted). or the left, (for the elite who actually earn it).

It is about the richer vs. the poorer hard workers that have to earn, not being rich, but just a living to support their family.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 09:59 | 1799833 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Okay then. My bad. I absolutely own up to a fierce contempt of even a whiff of statism. I quite literally view support of enslavement by government as evil. Thanks largely to ZH I view the world much differently than I did two years ago. I'm a former republican. I always had this vague sense that regardless of who was 'in charge', American citizens were to be screwed. I align myself now with ideology/philosophy rather than party. I lash out when I perceive, sometimes incorrectly, support for the progressive movement. The reason I do so is that in my opinion the progressive movement is merely communism/global enslavement in an Americanized form. Hell, since we are all anonymous here I'll even go so far as to say that I believe progressive = satanic. The ultimate goal of those behind the progressive movement is the destruction of the human soul and complete dominion over the earth.

Crazy? Maybe. Maybe not.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 11:28 | 1799905 juangrande
juangrande's picture

"please to meet you, hope you guess my name.

but what's puzzling you is the nature of my game!"


Glimmer Twins

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 07:13 | 1799719 Marco
Marco's picture

"Oh yeah, bailing out the bond holders is what it is about. Nothing more and nothing less."


Here you get it right ... and then in the same breath you get it oh so wrong ...


"To be precise, to bail out the Banksters."


Here you get it wrong ... the Banksters are not the target recipients of the bailouts, it's the senior bond holders. There is of course an overlap between the top creditors in the economy (ie. net worth 100 million and up) and some of the banksters, but it's circumstancial. Not all of the Bilderburg/Davos crowd are banksters. It's the top creditors behind the banks (the senior bond holders) who are really getting bailed out, and it's the top creditors who will have divested into physical assets when they allow the final crash to happen, the ultimate demise of the banks is planned.


The current financial system is a method of theft, not a store of looted wealth ... the store will be physical assets of the kind the original article recommended, neo-feudalism ahoy.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 08:32 | 1799759 ATM
ATM's picture

Thank God someone else gets it.

This system is designed to be crashed. When it does they wish to create only two classes of people afterward. Those who own everything and slaves.

These fucks who preach about helping the middle class are all liars. They despise the middle class and cannot wait to smash them into peonism. 


Sat, 10/22/2011 - 14:00 | 1800185 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Marco and ATM have it exactly right.

The one and only one subtle disagreement, based upon years of research is with the following:

"Not all of the Bilderburg/Davos crowd are banksters."

If you looked closely into the backgrounds of everyone there, and intensively drilled down into the interlocking stock ownership of all of those involved, you would find they are indeed all banksters.

But the goal has always appeared to be either that all-inclusive one-world corporation, or one-world bank, but the end result will be the same for the rest of us.

I commend you both, good citizens!

Wall Street Capitalism: the theory of the bondholding class

E. Ray Canterbery


Sat, 10/22/2011 - 17:32 | 1800452 Marco
Marco's picture

Bank stock holders get much more frequently burned than bond holders ...

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 23:31 | 1799495 cowdiddly
cowdiddly's picture

Exactly what is happening. Goods with inelastic demand curves will skyrocket in price. For the average Joe this means that when a good is inelastic when a rise in price does not affect demand (People cannot buy less because of higher prices). Its the shit you have to have at any price. I. E. FOOD, GAS< HEATING OIL ECT.

     Prepare accordingly. You are going to see those deflationistas going forward as totally wrong, but only part wrong. Elastic goods (THe shit you can live without) will not raise in prices nearly as much.( I. E. Maybe I will put of that boat purchase untill next year)

This one is going to hit us straight in the stomach, gas tank and home heating and other necessities. These bastigies or going to go after the remains of America's savings by hyperinflating your basic needs and you will have t spend enormous amounts of money to survive. I think I am ready but I do not know how long this will last once she gets started. 

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 04:43 | 1799666 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

cowdididdly... You are right about this "Elastic goods (THe shit you can live without) will not raise in prices nearly as much."

But, some elastic goods will be bought up by those sitting on a lot of cash, or PMs, or cash equivalents. Assets such as prime commercial real estate, prime farm land, water rights, mineral rights, utilities, etc, will sometimes be available for rediculous prices. 

This is the blood in the street scenerio. We are not going to see a smooth decent but one rife with wild swings.  

An anecdotal example: While the bombs from Japanese war planes were still dropping on and around Pearl Harbor a great deal of commercial and agricultural real estate changed hands. Many commercial/ag real estate owners of Asian decent were selling their properties for pennies on the dollar because they thought they would all be deported. Panics can come and go very quickly and fortunes can be made and lost in the blink of an eye. One 'madam' of American decent had a bankroll saved and bought up some of the most popular bars and bordellos in Honolulu during the attack. She became very wealthy during and after WW2. At the time she did not know what the outcome of her purchases, or the war, would be. Many thought the Japanese would invade and occupy Hawaii as they did in the Phillipines... but she bet her money and took her chances...capitalism at work.

Not saying this is right, it's just what happens during financial panics.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 06:40 | 1799704 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Befriend as many farmers as possible. No, not Monsanto farmers.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 11:39 | 1799921 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Well screw me to a pole.........................

As if this is not something we already know.You have be a dunce not to have figured this out long ago.

It is funny as hell these articles seem to come out when PM's are OFF the previous LOWS.(you missed the dip?.)



Fri, 10/21/2011 - 20:41 | 1799201 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

>>It's these growing inflationary pressures that Paul sees leading to an accelerating devaluation of paper currencies in the coming years. He sees a revaluation of the US dollar vs gold as a likely outcome <<

More "Food" for that thought?? : (Biflation continues to kill the middle class) :

Gains at McDonald’s Continue, but Menu Prices Could Rise


The company’s commodity costs in the United States spiked 8 percent this quarter compared with a year ago. That is higher than the second quarter’s 6 percent and the first quarter’s 1 percent increase.


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 20:43 | 1799208 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Good.  People shouldn't eat that crap anyway.

Soon organic food will be the same price as the rest because organic don't use petrol products, since the cost of oil is going up and up due to monetary and supply reasons.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:09 | 1799256 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Nobody uses tractors to harvest organic foods?

Farmers carry their produce in baskets on their backs to take it to market?

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:39 | 1799310 RealitiveMind
RealitiveMind's picture

Hey Schmuck!

I love your optimistic perspective . . . the fat slobs can get some exercise too.  Who would have dreamed we left utopia behind in the 1850's, brilliant!

Organic food, exercise, I suppose waiting quietly in long lines will teach us patience.  It is all becoming clear now . . . Obamatopia!

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:43 | 1799316 RealitiveMind
RealitiveMind's picture

Damn, I thought I coined a word, somebody beat me to it.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:25 | 1799390 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Dear Captain Obvious,

Organic food does not use petro-fert or petro-pesticides.

Yours Truely,


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 23:22 | 1799477 kito
kito's picture

i thought robo was captain obvious

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 03:46 | 1799644 akak
akak's picture

I think Robo is more like Corporal Oblivious.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 08:36 | 1799762 ATM
ATM's picture


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 23:52 | 1799523 lasvegaspersona
lasvegaspersona's picture

Organic food is a toy of the wealthy. Show Me the data that proves otherwise. Fat Lard Ass who made Supersize me proved nothing other than "if you consume 5000 calories per day you'll get fat and your cholesterol will rise. 

A (Nebraska, I think) professor just did a diet of Twinkies. He limited his caloric intake and took in some addition protein and a vitamin. The result was weight loss and improved lipid profile.

'Organic' is a buzz word. When the world is truly hungry it wil go away and we will eat what we can get and be perfectly fine. Since DDT was abandoned because of "Silent Spring" what benefits have we accrued?

McDonalds is fine food, Coke is OK. If you caloricly limit youself (which is a completely foreign concept to most people), you can live a long and cancer free life.  America's ass has grown large and full (and misshappen)  due to quantity NOT quality.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 08:01 | 1799742 youngman
youngman's picture

You are right on brother.....high five....its how much you eat...and I would throw in a little exercise....I have lived on fast food all my life..I work out and I am "active"...I stay in shape...

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 08:16 | 1799751 chubbar
chubbar's picture

The label "organic" is "owned" by the FDA. Try using it without paying them their inspection and registration fees and see what happens. Google it if you don't believe me, it actually says "owned". Unbelieveable.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 17:43 | 1800461 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

Sounds like the 'Kosher' racket.  Try putting a tiny little K on a food product!  Some Rabbis will hand you your ass!

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 10:45 | 1799867 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

DDT is still used on the crops today it is called 247D, but now because of weeds becoming resistant it has to have 3 applications insted of 1,FYI the most poisonous is Soy beans. My neighbor started feeding his heard GMO suger beet last year and he lost about 42% of his calves . 

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 20:08 | 1800746 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Check out the Russian GMO studies.  Within 3 generations of mice being fed pure GMOs, 75% were sterile.  By the 4th gen, they were growing beards INSIDE their mouths, and other such freaky shit.

Monsatan and the Fatal Drugs Allowed are bending every living thing over the pickle barrel.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:00 | 1799239 LeonardoFibonacci
LeonardoFibonacci's picture

Prices could rise you say but portions have "reversed super-sized" in other words, portions continue to shrink.  The Big mac should be called the medium mac, the Quarter pounder should be called the 1/4 divided by 2 pounder soon.  McD's is confusing the consumer by:


- raising prices

- shrinking portions

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:14 | 1799255 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture


Don't forget: McDonald's represents the biggest economies of scale available anywhere for food. So imagine what the relative price spikes have been for small restaurants or for families putting food on the table. 

In past recessions, McDonald's was the last stop for a dependable 'dollar meal' and 'change from your dollar'. That gives you an idea of how little of a buffer there is in the current situation, and also how fast and far even their "cheapest" prices have risen 

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 23:31 | 1799494 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture


Don't forget: McDonald's is stuffing it's "beef". Soon it will be a

Wood pulp and Ground soybean shell with beef flavor Pounder.

All your beef is belongs to us.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 01:32 | 1799589 Cardinal Fang
Cardinal Fang's picture

Dog shit and sawdust...

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 17:48 | 1800467 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

That is the first type of food inflation, always.  Portions shrink and the price stays the same, or, if things are really bad, they get you from both ends.  A bag of chips shrinks from 300g to 280g.  For some flavors the bag will only be 250g, for the same price.   Chocolate bars also shrink.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:12 | 1799359 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Go buy an 8oz package of sliced cheese.


It is now a 7oz package that cost 30% more than 1 year ago.

Devaluation has gone viral.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 09:29 | 1799807 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

you got it. food size packaging everywhere is shrinking. that's one way to "hide" inflation 

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:52 | 1799329 pitz
pitz's picture

Food is the least of a McDonald's costs.  Labour costs and rents are deflating faster.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:08 | 1799354 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture

They've got a problem at McDonald's flagship store on Broadway, across from zuccotti park...OWS-NY has infected and it smells like a sewer!

Gonna costs tens of thousands of dollars to clean that place up, once NYPD evicts the squatters, just another cost of doing biz for Mickey D...

More good things coming out of the OWS totalitarian wannabes.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 12:34 | 1800017 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

The way of the world. Good things come out of bad intent. Throwing out baby with bathwater kind of thing. What is good is the people on the ground discussing the concepts of a Republic. I thought you were checking out? ;)

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:04 | 1799349 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Shush yo' mouth child! We can't be talkin' bad about the massa! He be in charge. We jus' needs to be good and trust the massa. Now be goin' back to work and keep yo mouth quite!

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 20:52 | 1799213 HamyWanger
HamyWanger's picture

"Seeds of our destruction" ???

Give me a break.

The USA have the most intelligent and educated population in the ENTIRE world, immense territories rich in minerals and water, and have not at all suffered from decadence or social decay over the last century-- contrary to Europe.

The future is BRIGHT, if only you wanted to believe in it. Government debt is a false problem.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 20:57 | 1799235 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Trouble is most Americans can no longer afford to live in America. Lil problem. 

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:06 | 1799248 philipat
philipat's picture

You're joking, right? PLEASE tell me you're joking.......................

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:19 | 1799261 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture

Actually, if you analyze the situation, regarding the statement Government debt is a false problem, he's probably more correct than it appears at first glance...

The 'MeriKaN (D) & (R) Free Crap Empire™, along with the EuroTrash kabal, will ALL be FAR beyond their ability to service their debt loads in the next 1-3 years.

Debt repudiation is not an option for sovereign entities, but currency devaluation is.

What you think the Bernank has been doing for the past three+ year?

Creating an environment for a strong dollar?  lol

There's a new currency coming, what it is I don't know yet, hell I don't think TBTF/TPTB know yet, but the eventuality is a mathematically certainty now.

The EURO Ponzi is in final collapse mode now, the U$ Petro Dollar will follow it in weeks to months after the EURO is dead.

Prepare accordingly...


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:20 | 1799272 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

You should change your Avatar if you're attempting to metamorphose into a serious commentator. Having been outed once, you're forging on with this?

And no, I didn't buy the whole 'faux Xbox dood' moment either. Snake is clever, but perhaps you should think about it a bit before pronouncing the NWO currency de jour.




It already exists, you idiot.


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:23 | 1799277 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture

Don't you have something constructive to do, like filling your face with alcohol to deaden the pain between you ears?

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:54 | 1799301 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

You really imagine that I don't chug down at least 20 units before coming here to comment in order to get down to your level?

You should pay attention to the drinking threads, most of the smart cats are fucking wasted by the time they post here. It is called... relaxation in the face of total insanity and ineptitude. Most sane intelligent posters here are now having to get drunk to even read the headlines coming out of the US/EU due to massive cognitive dissonance.


Heck. This week I've put away more than your mother has ever drunk, just to enable me to read your posts without a brain hemorrhage. And you still got born, so kudos to your father's liver.




Wait. I AM totally wasted. Some punk has been using your avatar it seems... back in a tick, checking this out. I might have trolled myself ;)


Yeah, there's some other kid using the same Avatar who was stirring up the boards yesterday, who I wrongly assumed you were. Damn. In the spirit of full disclosure, I'll leave my idiocy here for all to see. Apologies... lolololol. (Name aphasia, same Avatar, d'oh - self junk applied, +1 given)


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:57 | 1799334 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Dam bag-head.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:06 | 1799342 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Meh, it happens - most of what the comment section is about is churn, and sparking a bit of fire. And yea, at least I'm honest about my mistakes.


Binary is still the only real currency - if you doubt it, look up why/how your CC's work. And which 4 providers are used across the globe, US interference in Russia to prevent a home-spun version etc. I've outlined this in other posts.



p.s. Let the real Snake answer first, hmm? More amusing that way, and allows him/her to fire off. Oh, and I'm able to do this all with >20 units in my blood - can you say the same, Mr Cougar? Methinks not.



Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:28 | 1799393 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Knob Creek for me....

Did I miss something?

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:56 | 1799438 SilverFocker
SilverFocker's picture

At least there, you get to blow shit up intead of waiting around for this shit to blow itself up. No fun without tracers.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 00:07 | 1799537 stant
stant's picture

i like both knob creeks . blow stuff up and a drink after

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 23:05 | 1799449 caerus
caerus's picture

knob creek's good

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 09:42 | 1799819 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Yes, change your avatar.  perhaps a paper bag like the big shooters wear..  Ha, we are all anonymous for all you know Snake Pliskin is Jamie Dimon. 

One of the problems with America is highlighted by our paper bag wearing friend here.  Forming conclusions and value judgements using appearances over substance is at epidemic levels and the fall from that illusion is coming and it will be very painful.  One man will appear with substance and the sheep will cling onto him, beware he is not a destroyer.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:21 | 1799274 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Yup. It could be a basket of currencies, it could be a new Esperanto. But the world has learned a sharp lesson that without gold backing the new currency in some form, then the same mistakes will inevitably be repeated with dire political, social and global economic consequences. 

Gold is the stabilizing ingrediet in any currency or mix. 

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:35 | 1799290 Quixotic_Not
Quixotic_Not's picture

With most "citizens"  being narcisists that don't give two cracks about AMERICA, just looking to get a piece of whatever Ponzi scheme is in effect, I don't hold much hope for a return to "rational" thinking when it comes to money -or- economics for that matter...

Everywhere I look out across the fruity plains it's like Lord of the Flies on crack!

From here forward (until the RESET), I'd say it's down, down, DOWN...that is, except for that part of the 1% that is preparing and connected.

Fiat for the huddled mongrels; PMs for the banksters; Power to loot for the politeer brethren!

If the sheeple weren't so busy grazing on pastures of ignorant bliss, they'd already be dumping currency for real money, which of course is NOT happening, and I don't believe WILL happen enmasse.

No State shall enter into any Treaty, Alliance, or Confederation; grant Letters of Marque and Reprisal; coin Money; emit Bills of Credit; make any Thing but gold and silver Coin a Tender in Payment of Debts; pass any Bill of Attainder, ex post facto Law, or Law impairing the Obligation of Contracts, or grant any Title of Nobility.

Fourth turning indeed!

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:42 | 1799418 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

The new currency will be reckless violence. Might makes right. Submit or die, Bitchez.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 00:07 | 1799536 rocker
rocker's picture

Welcome back Quixotic.  Some get it and others don't.  Welcome Back. !!!

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 13:22 | 1800112 RSloane
RSloane's picture

Lord of the Flies on Crack.....yep that's the best description I've read yet.

No applause emote but I can +1 you.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 08:07 | 1799744 youngman
youngman's picture

For us sheeple its a stabilizing ingredient..but for a banker it is the kiss of death to the new currency will not be gold backed ..this will be so the bankers can make back what they lost over time with new gimics and toys that we the sheeple will buy and pay for..all backed buy the governents and teh politicians who depend on the bankers to fund their campaigns..

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 12:43 | 1800039 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Caviat, consider the petro-dollar and global energy deravitives, tied into global warming marketing hysteria to sell the need for this new currency unit. Food for thought. Gold may be the short-term solution but our underlying consciessness is pushing toward energy units as currency.

The intent was bad but something good will come out of the wreckage some day. For full energy unit currency (yes start of it was bits and bytes) it requires trust so I speculate perhaps 2030's we'll see a renewed push toward this end.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 14:33 | 1800228 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Raging Debate,

Gold may be the short-term solution but our underlying consciousness is pushing toward energy units as currency.

How so?.

We have since records have been kept pumped 1T barrels of crude.

Of the wells that are not producing now, most of their reservoirs were only approx 35-40% depleted.

Technology today exists to go back and extract a lot more from them,sure it will cost a bit more, bit not a ton.

There is an estimated 1.5 Trillion barrels left in old wells, and that is not even considering NEW fields being found.

Add the estimated total left on the planet at approx 5 Trillion barrels, and we are NO where close to peak oil.


Sat, 10/22/2011 - 15:57 | 1800333 Kayman
Kayman's picture


Now don't try sneeking in facts and cogent reasoning against the emotion, politics, and vacuous reasoning of the basement dwellers of "Peak Oil".

Shame on you.... Shame...

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:12 | 1799259 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Yes sirree "The future is BRIGHT". But the SHADES are imported.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 12:46 | 1800049 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Yeah but even tinted shades get wiped every once in awhile. I am getting $10k from a local Pakistani here in New England that wants to invest in Social Media. I got commitments from a couple of big fish too but I just HAVE to let him into the party ;)

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:13 | 1799262 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

....and 40% of your population are obese.

That leaves another 20-40% merely being fat.


Ye, I know you're a sock-puppet troll for entartainment [delib. there] but really. Run... Forest... Run....


/long spandex

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:01 | 1799340 mynhair
mynhair's picture

'your' - key word.

Another Eurotard heard from.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:12 | 1799361 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Ye, ok, getting a little bored of the sniping from a man who publishes bad fiction on the web and hasn't a clue how to protect his identity. How's those kinky Angels working out for you?

Want to play hard-ball? Please remember last time it took me less than 15 mins to link your real surname to a particular predator of children.


Make an informed post, I'll be nice: keep sniping, and hey... you never know, I might decide to trawl a little deeper. Do. Not. Fuck. With. Me.


Or we can both forgive & forget, and drop the entire drama, and be happy. Your call.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:54 | 1799432 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Pretty funny. If you can actually 'OUT' people, I'm all for it. That would be the best thing since T.V dinners.

Might even change the world?

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 00:14 | 1799541 JohnG
JohnG's picture

2 minutes after Use's post.  Easy.  Key words.....

All this little bitches posts make sense now. (sort of.....)


Sat, 10/22/2011 - 16:54 | 1800418 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Which bitch?

Friday night is comedy night, I was doing my thing, whilst others were doing theirs. Heck, I even managed to troll myself, which cracked me up.



Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:58 | 1799434 prains
prains's picture

Do. Not. Fuck. With. Me.


nice HAKA but you need to stick your tongue out, close your eyes and do a throat slit motion with your thumb to really make your point.

oh and also be really fucking huge.


Sat, 10/22/2011 - 11:50 | 1799931 Melin
Melin's picture

I've always assumed whatever I write online would be traceable to my person.  I'm surprised to learn that others assume differently.  Which leads me to believe that perhaps I could learn a thing or two about protecting myself electronically.  Any learnin' you could link me to?

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 13:00 | 1800077 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Melin, the world has changed. Basically, what your asking for is generically impossible. You could check yourself off the grid and deliver messages the old fashion way in person, second hand. Kind of the way OWS is communicating. Purposeful devolution isn't my thing. I jest sometimes here of the absudity of people that still think they are 'anonymous' by putting up my name and phone number on the threads.

In the end, people do not follow anonymous anything. They follow men and women of principle that sign clearly on the dotted line of what their intent is and what concepts they represent.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 14:44 | 1800239 Idiot Savant
Idiot Savant's picture

Frankly, I'm shocked. I know government agencies can trace your IP address, but I didn't know another poster could trace my handle to my IP and then to my real name. Interesting, perhaps I should invest in IP hiding software, or is that easy to circumvent too?

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 17:57 | 1800475 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

There's three schools of thought:

#1 Tor1, proxies, VPNs and keeping yourself hidden. The problem is that a data black hole allows you to see where something is coming from (analogy - stealth submarines, where you're looking for where the background noise of the ocean isn't, rather than is, to find them - same principle being used by FaceBook to make "shadow profiles" of non-users). They work, up to a point.

#2 Datasmog - throw so much garbage through a connection (automated pr0n site clicks, sharing network with Bittorrent users, multiple P2P MMO connections etc) that automated processes don't flag up the connection, or can't spot it without human intervention. I think the current ratio is something like 1.5-3.5 million attempted data intrusions / day for a top 10 banking site, so there's a lot of smog out there. Not to mention a billion people watching pr0n.

#3 Use public access to publish stuff, and don't ever use the same computer twice. MAC alarms, memory only trojans and modern sniffers are easy to keep hidden on most systems [Unix... maybe not]. Good example: ... Assume that your computer is being used as a data collection asset at all times.

#4 Multiple identities that you keep on separate machines and access the internet via differing ISPs. One for personal, one for business, one for trolling.




But, in reality, at this point with packet sniffers and so forth - ISPs are the issue (and further, satellites, but hey). If you're with an ISP that is a) hosted in a country with robust privacy laws and b) encrypts its own traffic, then great. Your large Corporate ISP is doing neither. There's a reason the Wikileak servers are where they're at. Iceland also looks promising (meme of the month is how great Iceland is, because it rocks :) )

  • 1. And remember that Tor was designed, and made by, military contractor cash to enable military communication
Sat, 10/22/2011 - 12:54 | 1800065 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

It's Fight Club theme here, drawing opinion on facts by pissing each other off a little. It's a brilliant model for phase one of liberation. The theme will become less useful over time but for now stop being such a pussy.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 17:55 | 1800476 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Was that to me?


Trust me... don't teach your grandmother to suck eggs.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 13:23 | 1800115 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Use of Weapons

....and 40% of your population are obese.

That leaves another 20-40% merely being fat.



Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:19 | 1799271 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

hahahahaha, what a hilarious thing to say.

ostrich sticks head in the sand, sees no problem!

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:29 | 1799396 Dapper Dan
Dapper Dan's picture

I hear that there are companies now that will come out and remove the dog shit from your yard for hefty price.

Is that decadent?

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:38 | 1799416 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Support, please, as I beg to differ. I'll throw you a bone for your research: South Korea.

I'd modify your statement and say that the US is the most education-indebted in the world, standing at nearly $1T.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 23:22 | 1799478 jez
jez's picture

"The USA have the most intelligent and educated population in the ENTIRE world . . ."

I was reading just the other day that among the intelligent and educated population of Detroit, the army of the functionally illiterate now stands at 47 per cent. (In Thailand, the third world country where I happen to live, it's about seven per cent.)

My observation is that it would actually be damn difficult to PREVENT a child from learning to read, and yet nearly half of these Detroit wunderkinder can't get 26 letters into their heads, even after ten years of schooling. Christ, Japanese kids have to learn THOUSANDS of kanji ideograms in order to be able to read properly.

I sure wouldn't want to buy any car assembled by these dopes.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 07:45 | 1799733 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture

Detroit is a war zone so they don’t have the time to edumacate they’re, there, thar,  I mean their children.

Sun, 10/23/2011 - 01:37 | 1801332 DavidAKZ
DavidAKZ's picture

that's terrible.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 07:27 | 1799724 Marco
Marco's picture

Why does this man get downvoted so much?


He is telling the truth, the median education in the US might not be great ... but truth be told you just don't need the median to be very high. The top few % are much more important in this day and age, for instance you only need so many engineers ... and the US still has the cream of the crop as far as that is concerned.


Natural resources, again ... the US is incredibly wealthy in that respect, the only thing it really lacks is cheap to recover oil ... on the other hand it has an abundance of deserts (unfortunately also a population poisoned against the concept of solar power and a political system almost incapable of well targeted investment because of corruption).


Both in personal and natural resources the US is the wealthiest country in the world, it's just squandering that potential because of wealth inequality due to crony capitalism and the associated social instability. Until wealth inequality is fixed there is no future for the US.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 10:23 | 1799852 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

"The USA have the most intelligent " There's your problem right there.  Nice sentence structure...

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 13:35 | 1800133 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Technically, you are correct Krisp. I view articles as requiring careful editing for form a necessity. However, commentary is quick display of opinion and where one stands on an issue. I feel commentary would be more useful with some better tech to harness and incorporate facts.
Market normalization for Digital Publishing is a major business opportunity and permits philanthropic intent.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 12:10 | 1799960 DosZap
DosZap's picture

Hamy Wamger,

Government debt is a false problem.

Gov is THE Problem Hamy WTFU.

Who do you think is keeping us from GETTING to those vast resources ?

Who do you think has take ownership of MOST of it?

WHO will not let us explore it, and create new industries from those resources?.


WHEN they get the hell out of the way, real Capitalism could reemerge(but not until this system is changed, Banksters are/have murdered the world),for their own devices.

And guess WHO allowed it?.

There's your BRIGHT FUTURE.


Sat, 10/22/2011 - 12:22 | 1799989 DosZap
DosZap's picture

<p>Hamy Wamger,</p><p>Government debt is a false problem.</p><p>Gov is <strong>THE</strong> Problem Hamy WTFU.</p><p>Who do you think is keeping us from GETTING to those vast resources ?</p><p>Who do you think has take ownership of MOST of it?</p><p>WHO will not let us explore it, and create new industries from those resources?.</p><p>Simple.</p><p>WHEN they get the hell out of the way, real Capitalism could reemerge(but not until this system is changed, Banksters are/have murdered the world),for their own devices.</p><p>And guess WHO allowed it?.</p><p>There's your BRIGHT FUTURE.</p><p>&nbsp;</p>

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 20:49 | 1799216 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

And as prices have been spiking in consumer staples, incomes have taken a Real Big Hit during the cirsis: (can you spell Biflation?)



Real median annual household income has fallen significantly more during the economic recovery period from June 2009 to June 2011 than during the recession lasting from December 2007 to June 2009.


During the recession, real median annual household income fell by 3.2 percent, from $55,309 in December 2007 to $53,518 in June 2009. During the economic recovery, real median annual household income fell by an additional 6.7 percent, from $53,518 in June 2009 to $49,909 in June 2011.?


For the entire period from December 2007 to June 2011, real median annual household income has declined by 9.8 percent. A decline of this magnitude represents a significant reduction in the American standard of living.


Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:16 | 1799266 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Don't tell that to the 401k I've stopped contributing to, after taking out all I can to buy the PM's that fell overboard in a boating accident.

Received the statement today:  -14.1% on the quarter, -9.3% on the year.  Oughta be worth a Little Mac (no Coke) in about a year....

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 21:26 | 1799282 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Buying power of cash and near-cash instruments getting crushed. Since 2000 stocks are gross down (not even factoring in inflation), but gold has nearl quintupled. A big tell. The trend is yo friend. 

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:03 | 1799347 mynhair
mynhair's picture

So, go long?

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 23:04 | 1799445 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

I would say yeah, Go long but be ready for it to break. The entire regime is fixated by the idea that economic health is measured by the DOW/RUSSEL. They are of course wrong, but what else is new? The game will be to force the perception of recovery up to stinkies (B.O's) reelection.

They can juice it that long and they will.

It's second term will be the fulfillment of its mandate. America will be mortally wounded and the path of global governance shall be fully cleared.

Just as planned.

Mission accomplished.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 13:39 | 1800145 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

ISEEIT, do you find any irony that an empire is already in collapse mode while empires are celebrating victory dances? Ahh the hubris of our species. Hillarious if it were not so deadly.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:14 | 1799371 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

i'm about to make a big gold buy.

i need my zh buddies to reassure me this is a good thing

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 22:56 | 1799436 mynhair
mynhair's picture

It's not.  Wait a few weeks.  1500 is still in the Tarot cards.

Fri, 10/21/2011 - 23:25 | 1799484 kito
kito's picture

once the deflation bomb is dropped, who knows how low it goes.....that being said, since none of us know anything about the future, instead of one giant purchase, it would be smarter to cost average your buildup. after all, bullion is held with the idea of preserving value, so if you believe gold will do that, spread your purchases out..........

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 00:25 | 1799550 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

I don't know if 1500 is possible or not. It's the bond market.

It has to continually rise to stop crashing the bond market right now. It can do the headfakes quick run ups and then come right back to where it was to get through a couple months of shakiness on the bond market. But I still think it's great depression time. On second collapse the bond market just DIED. And there was a nearly instant depreciation in the dollar. Actually what they did was load a ship up with gold ship it to england at 25 bucks an ounce that the bondholders bought and then shipped it back and sold it for 30 something bucks and ounce. That was the payment for the bond market crash.

So it just depends on how gold and silver are used in this inevitable bond market crash.

As much as I defend gadafi he was still a dumb ass dictator. But reguardless I don't know if they can bring libyas economy online enough to save the french banks. My guess is europes bond market will just freaking shatter before ours does. Sure the delay will probably be only a week but that will proably be the signal.

The problem you have there is gold goes frikkin kaboom on a bond market earthquake and you'll be fighting frogs for gold.  And frogs got as many worthless euro's as you do dollars.

1640 to 1900 and back down in 2 months is not a good freaking sign.

Sat, 10/22/2011 - 00:23 | 1799548 JohnG
JohnG's picture

It is.  I do not see gold going below 1585.  In fact, I think 1605 or so is about as low as it will get, 1585....bounce back up.  Asia (China) is rolling it up.  I've been buying steadily below 1700.  Not sweating a bit.  Happy with glee  every time I see more, trying to raise worthless cash to get rid of, but there's just not much more I can sell to do that right now.

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