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As Pentagon Sends Reinforcements To Straits Of Hormuz, Iraq Redux Looms

Tyler Durden's picture




 

A few days ago, before the latest breakout in crude sent Brent to all time highs in GBP and EUR (and Asian Tapis in USD just shy of all time highs), we said that "we hope our readers stocked up on gasoline. Because things are about to get uglier. And by that we mean more expensive. But courtesy of hedonic adjustments, more expensive means cheaper, at least to the US government." This was due to recent news out of Iran "where on one hand we learn that IAEA just pronounced Iran nuclear talks a failure (this is bad), and on the other Press TV reports that the Iran army just started a 4 day air defense exercise in a 190,000 square kilometer area in southern Iran (this is just as bad). The escalation "ball" is now in the Western court." We were not surprised to learn that the "Western court" has responded in precisely the way we had expected. The WSJ reports: "The Pentagon is beefing up U.S. sea- and land-based defenses in the Persian Gulf to counter any attempt by Iran to close the Strait of Hormuz. The U.S. military has notified Congress of plans to preposition new mine-detection and clearing equipment and expand surveillance capabilities in and around the strait... The military also wants to quickly modify weapons systems on ships so they could be used against Iranian fast-attack boats, as well as shore-launched cruise missiles" Which means the escalation slider was just shifted up by one more level, as Iran will next do just what every actor caught in an Always Defect regime as part of an iterated prisoners' dilemma always does - step up the rhetoric even more, as backing off at this point is impossible. Which means that crude will go that much more higher in the coming days, as now even the MSM is starting to grasp the obvious - from the Guardian: "The drumbeat of war with Iran grows steadily more intense. Each day brings more defiant rhetoric from Tehran, another failed UN nuclear inspection, reports of western military preparations, an assassination, a missile test, or a dire warning that, once again, the world is sliding towards catastrophe. If this all feels familiar, that's because it is. For Iran, read Iraq in the countdown to the 2003 invasion." And the most ironic thing is that the biggest loser out of all this, at least in the short-term is.... Greece.

As a reminder, here is an update of US naval assets, courtesy of a recently up and running Stratfor:

More on the latest very much anticipated defection from the US in what is setting up to be either the biggest dud of geopolitical foreplay in history, or potentially the start of a new World War (because the Muslim cresent will not take too lightly to any joint or standalone US/Israeli aggression).

The military also wants to quickly modify weapons systems on ships so they could be used against Iranian fast-attack boats, as well as shore-launched cruise missiles, the defense officials said.

 

The changes put a spotlight on what officials have singled out as potential U.S. shortcomings in the event of conflict with Iran. The head of Central Command, Marine Gen. James Mattis, asked for the equipment upgrades after reviews by war planners last spring and fall exposed "gaps" in U.S. defense capabilities and military preparedness should Tehran close the Strait of Hormuz, officials said.

 

The Central Command reviews, in particular, have fueled concerns about the U.S. military's ability to respond swiftly should Iran mine the strait, through which nearly 20% of the world's traded oil passes.

 

"When the enemy shows more signs of capability, we ask what we can do to checkmate it," a U.S. military officer said. "They ought to know we take steps to make sure we are ready."

 

The U.S. is concerned that Israel—which believes that Tehran will soon be able to assemble a weapon, and that time is running short to stop the bid—may choose to strike Iran by this autumn to stymie such a program. That, defense officials worry, could provoke retaliation that could prompt U.S. military action to defend its troops and key allies, and to keep the Strait of Hormuz open.

 

Central Command officials have told lawmakers they want the new mine-detection systems fielded before this fall, according to defense officials, underlining the urgency of preparedness.

 

In addition, U.S. special-operations teams stationed in the United Arab Emirates would take part in any military action in the strait should Iran attempt to close it, defense officials said. A military official said these forces have been working to train elite local forces in Gulf nations including the U.A.E., Bahrain and Kuwait, but added: "They would be used in the event of active operations."

Alas, as our game theory familiar readers will attest, the realistic outcome of recent events is not encouraging:

If two players play prisoners' dilemma more than once in succession and they remember previous actions of their opponent and change their strategy accordingly, the game is called iterated prisoners' dilemma.

 

If the game is played exactly N times and both players know this, then it is always game theoretically optimal to defect in all rounds. The only possible Nash equilibrium is to always defect. The proof is inductive: one might as well defect on the last turn, since the opponent will not have a chance to punish the player. Therefore, both will defect on the last turn. Thus, the player might as well defect on the second-to-last turn, since the opponent will defect on the last no matter what is done, and so on. The same applies if the game length is unknown but has a known upper limit.

For those confused, terminal defection means pushing the "Launch" key. And even mainstream journalists appear to have grasped what has finally dawned upon the energy market (if with the now usual 6-8 week delay):

A decisive moment may arrive when Barack Obama meets Israel's prime minister, Binyamin Netanyahu, in Washington on 5 March. "The meeting … will be definitive," said Ari Shavit in Haaretz. "If the US president wants to prevent a disaster, he must give Netanyahu iron-clad guarantees the US will stop Iran in any way necessary and at any price after the 2012 [US] elections. If Obama doesn't do this, he will obligate Netanyahu to act before the 2012 elections."

 

If accurate, this is not much of a choice. It suggests military action by the US or Israel or both is unavoidable, the only question being one of timing. Objectively speaking, this is not actually the position. All concerned still have choices. The case against Iran's nuclear programme is far from proven. It is widely agreed that limited military strikes will not work; a more extensive, longer-lasting campaign would be required. And Obama in particular, having striven to end the Iraq and Afghan wars, is loath to start another.

 

But as with Iraq in 2003, the sense that war is inevitable and unstoppable is being energetically encouraged by political hardliners and their media accomplices on all sides, producing a momentum that even the un-bellicose Obama may find hard to resist.

Will Obama truly risk sending gas prices to all time highs month ahead of his election, just in time to send the global economy into a spiraling recession where not even the fabled US decoupling (purely driven by the $2 trillion in liquidity expansion by non-US central banks)? Who knows: however, if he hopes to use the iraq playbook, he may be disappointed. Again from the Guardian:

In some key respects, the Iran crisis is distinctly different from that over Iraq in 2002-03. As matters stand, similarly strident warmongering surrounding Iran is thus hard to understand or explain – unless the ultimate, unstated objective is not to curb Iran's nuclear programme but, as in Iraq, to overthrow its rulers.

 

Bogeymen

George Bush and Tony Blair claimed a moral imperative in toppling the "monstrous" dictatorship of Saddam Hussein. But the much vilified Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Iran's president, is no Saddam, and neither is the country's bumbling Supreme Leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei. The Iranian regime is repressive and sporadically brutal, but so too are many developing world governments. Unlike Saddam's Ba'athists, it has significant democratic and ideological underpinning. As a bogeyman whose depredations might justify international intervention, Ahmadinejad is a flop.

Weapons of Mass Destruction

Saddam, notoriously, had no deployable or usable WMD, but his overthrow was primarily justified by the mistaken belief that he did. The present western consensus is that Iran is seeking nuclear weapons capability, but does not have an atomic bomb and is not currently trying to build one. Khamenei said this week that nuclear weapons were "useless and harmful" and that possessing them was sinful . Netanyahu's belief that Israel faces an imminent, existential threat is visceral rather than fact-based. Israel's refusal to acknowledge its own nuclear arsenal, let alone contemplate its reduction, further undermines the case for action.

 

Terrorism

Plenty of evidence exists that Iran supports, or has supported, armed militants, jihadis, and anti-Israeli and anti-western armed groups in Palestine, Lebanon, Syria, Iraq and Afghanistan, providing financial and political backing, arms and training. In this respect, its behaviour is more threatening to western interests than was that of Saddam's secular regime, no friend to Islamists. But limited or even protracted attacks on Iran's nuclear and/or military facilities would not end these links, unless there was a shift of political direction in Tehran.

 

Strategic power-games

Iraq was considered important for its strategic position at the heart of the Arab Middle East and its economic potential, especially its oil reserves. Similarly, there can be no doubt the US and Britain would like to see energy-rich Iran return to the western camp, as in the pre-revolution days of the Shah. Conversely, Iran's military is more powerful and more committed to the defence of the status quo, from which it benefits greatly, than was Iraq's. The potential disruption to oil supplies and western economies, not to mention the impact of asymmetric Iranian counter-attacks, makes a resort to war contingent on producing lasting dividends.

 

Political imperatives

In contrast to the splits over Iraq, the main western powers are united in their determination to bring Iran to heel. As well as Netanyahu, David Cameron, Nicolas Sarkozy and Barack Obama have all declared an Iranian bomb unacceptable. Their inflexibility thus makes war more rather than less likely should Iran refuse to back down. "Having made the case for urgency and concerted action, it would be difficult for Obama to tell the world 'never mind' and shift to a strategy that accepts Iranian membership in the nuclear club," said Michael Gerson in the Washington Post.

Yet while nothing may well be the final outcome, one thing is certain: Greece is in deep trouble. As a reminder, the insolvent country is one of those affected by the Iranian decision to cut off European exports. And as Athens News reports: "Greece relied on Iran for more than half of its oil imports during some
months last year
after traders and oil majors pulled the plug on
supplies and banks refused to provide financing for fear that Athens
would default on its debt."

Major traders are in talks with Greece to supply crude oil and help the country cut reliance on Iranian oil ahead of a European ban, in a sign that they are happier about Greece's creditworthiness following a second debt bailout. Greece turned to Iran as a supplier of last resort last year despite pressure from Washington and Brussels to end trade as part of a campaign against Tehran's nuclear programme that the West says is for arms and Iran says is for energy.

 

Traders told Reuters that Swiss-based Totsa, the trading arm of French oil major Total, and trading house Mercuria were in separate negotiations with Greek refiner Hellenic Petroleum to help it replace Iranian crude. Glencore, a leading Swiss-based commodities trader and one of the few that conducted business with Greece during the debt crisis, may also boost supplies, trading sources said.

 

Two industry source said talks were at advanced stages. A third industry source said negotiations were at an early stage. "If something were to happen, it would be unlikely before summer," one source said.

The reason for the delay? Why certainly that Greece has some money to pay, i.e., passage of the bailout (that Greece won't see a single penny out of it is a different story entirely)

Hellenic acknowledged earlier this week that it was buying oil from Iran and paying for the shipments later, terms known in industry jargon as open credit terms. But the refiner also said that replacing Iranian oil would be "easy" with supplies from Saudi Arabia, Iraq and Russia. Traders expect the terms offered by alternative oil suppliers to be far less generous, as many are still unable to enter into agreements with Greece because of the risk associated with the country's debt.

 

Part of the reason for swapping crude oil for products is that Hellenic is unable to obtain letters of credit from banks because of lingering default fears.

 

"They have liabilities and banks could come in and demand payment," said a London-based trading head who decided not to enter talks with Hellenic, saying it was too risky for his firm.

 

However, Greece's second bailout this week provides reassurance that any crude supplied to a refinery would not be caught up in a messy national default. Hellenic, which has 350 million euros of debt maturing this year and 1.3 billion in 2013, has started refinancing discussions with banks. It said it hoped that the bailout deal would allow Greece to return to markets and ease Greek companies' refinancing strains.

In other words, war or no war, Greece better pray that Europe at least pretend to fund the second bailout agreed upon on July 21, 2011, as otherwise, the country will be out of crude by the summer. Of course, if there is no bailout, the country will also be broke by then too, with rioting and bank runs a daily occurrence. Perhaps seen in this light, a gasoline shortage doesn't seem all that bad...

 

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Sun, 02/26/2012 - 00:56 | 2197036 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Mopeds and bicycles, bitchez! Adult tricycles for the gravitationally challenged

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:17 | 2197066 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I get the distinct impression that the U.S. actually just officially smacked down Israel and neocons within its own agencies with an official report released on Friday concluding that "that there is no hard evidence that Iran has decided to build a nuclear bomb" (that's some strong and unambiguous language).

I didn't expect that, to be honest, and if true, it runs diametrically opposite to the reporting of The Guardian.

Then again, nothing is as it appears right now.

Here's the report on the official U.S. findings that I'm speaking of:

 

U.S. Agencies See No Move by Iran to Build a Bomb

The New York Times


By and

Published: February 24, 2012

WASHINGTON — Even as the United Nations’ nuclear watchdog said in a new report Friday that Iran had accelerated its uranium enrichment program, American intelligence analysts continue to believe that there is no hard evidence that Iran has decided to build a nuclear bomb.

Recent assessments by American spy agencies are broadly consistent with a 2007 intelligence finding that concluded that Iran had abandoned its nuclear weapons program years earlier, according to current and former American officials. The officials said that assessment was largely reaffirmed in a 2010 National Intelligence Estimate, and that it remains the consensus view of America’s 16 intelligence agencies.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:18 | 2197074 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Intelligence reports and spy agency assessments remind me of the 2003 pre-invasion UN Iraq hearings on WMD. 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:22 | 2197088 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

My recollection is that evidence was being manufactured that Iraq possessed and was building more WMD (in the most vague sense), culminating with a presentation by Colin Powell before the U.N. emphatically insisting that Iraq had even gone so far as to source yellowcake from Nigeria (and much of these claims that we now know to be patently false were culled from the infamous source known as 'curveball' and also a British graduate student's thesis paper, which literally was a work in science fiction).

This latest reaffirmation of 'no intent to build nuclear devices' would run contrary to the build-up to the pretext for the invasion of Iraq.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:25 | 2197098 Conrad Murray
Conrad Murray's picture

Just want to drop a little thank you for always being on the pursuit of truth, and sharing what you find along the way. It is much appreciated.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:36 | 2197126 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Thanks, Conrad.

I remember reading that article on Friday and thinking about the ramifications it may have for those who have open long positions on crude over the weekend.

It would have been just another footnote except for the fact that it was so strongly worded and claimed unanimity in consensus among "all 16 U.S. intelligence agencies" that it grabbed my attention and screamed out that there was something serious happening in terms of ratcheting down the drumbeat for escalation with Iran.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 02:25 | 2197196 economics1996
economics1996's picture

Here is a blog I did on gas prices.  For the business majors this will be a refresher course, most of you will know this.  

http://usa-wethepeople.com/2012/02/how-do-gas-prices-increase/ 

The blog was aimed at the ignorant public.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 02:55 | 2197224 CIABS
CIABS's picture

Maybe there's a game-theory explanation for Iran escalating the rhetoric, but maybe the Iranians are confident that they won't be attacked so long as they don't attack first, which I doubt they will do.  It's difficult and extremely risky for Israel to attack Iran alone.  It's not so difficult for the U.S. to do it but it's very risky.  If Iran develops nuclear weapons, they won't use them first, and probably not in retaliation, either.  What is at stake is certain people's plans to turn Iran into a failed state or a compliant U.S. ally.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 04:28 | 2197277 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

Ass chaps, razor boomerangs, subterranean midgets, and Mel Gibson here we come.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 07:15 | 2197369 spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

Starting a war with Iran would be the dumbest thing ever.

http://azizonomics.com/2012/02/12/a-time-for-war/ 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 09:42 | 2197490 Ima anal sphincter
Ima anal sphincter's picture

Well.....starting war with Iraq. Starting war with Libya. Starting war with Afghanistan. Starting war in Egypt. Starting war in Syria.

Voting in Federal Reserve. Voting in Affirmative Action. Allowing illegal immigration. Starting the multitude of useless "Departments" of bullshit. Allowing year after year...traitor after traitor to serve in government positions.  Letting our media be completely controlled by Zionist assholes.  (The "list" of governmental actions against the people is truly mind boggling when looked at as a whole.)

I've only scratched the surface of "dumbest thing ever." Our government is not "our" government. When it is......all this BS stops.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 09:51 | 2197502 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Illegal immigration, affirmative action... All that is part of being a US citizen.

Illegal immigration? Started on 1776;July,4th
Affirmative action? Started on 1776,July,4th

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:09 | 2197608 prole
prole's picture

You haven't killed your quota of Tibetans for this weekend Comrade.

Get to work.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:15 | 2197616 redpill
redpill's picture

Speaking of which, all this is really doing is driving the Iranians into the hands of the Chinese.  Now whatever the outcome we won't get their oil.  Neocons aren't even efficient imperialists, just retards.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 15:31 | 2198397 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

If we start a war with Iran we may as well start bombing China . Oil prices will imediatly go to 250/300 a barrel, which will stall out the economy ,more people loose there jobs /homes and we will be paying $10/15 for gas which will then be restricted, bombs will start falling on London , so if all these people who think it would be a good idea to invade are happy living like the above, then i dont see a problem.  We all know it will lead to global thermonuclear war . GAME OVER.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:26 | 2197632 caconhma
caconhma's picture

Zionists Banking Mafia and neo-cons are pushing the world to the WWIII.

Apparently, Hiroshima and Nagasaki was not enough for international gangsters and warmongers. People just forgot the horrors. So, the world needs a “new reminder”.  Consequently, I do not mind if Iranians build and use nukes on Israel. Al least, it will save tens of millions Americans from a slaughter in the WWIII holocaust.

 

 

 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:34 | 2197643 john39
john39's picture

This just in, Iran halts oil shipment to Greece. good on iran, hit the EU where it hurts. http://www.presstv.com/detail/228732.html

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 15:14 | 2198320 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

The Greeks are so screwed! Iran knows this much, Europe and America are in very fragile economic condition, anything they can do to spike oil prices is a major plus. Russia will also back them in this as they stand to benefit too.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:03 | 2197598 non_anon
non_anon's picture

unless your a lame duck president looking to get re-elected

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 15:15 | 2198331 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

What, like our last self-proclaimed "War President". Mr. "I am a war president" Bush. That idiot is the author of the 2008 collapse, he was even in charge when the collapse happened after 7 years in charge.

Bush? Obama? Big friggen difference!

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 05:50 | 2197324 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

I agree CIABS.  More like the Cuban Missle Crisis when the world pulled back from the edge.

After the election [whoever wins] look for some strange things to happen in our increasingly strange epoch.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 10:42 | 2197567 Chimerican
Chimerican's picture

"If Iran develops nuclear weapons, they won't use them first, and probably not in retaliation, either.  What is at stake is certain people's plans to turn Iran into a failed state or a compliant U.S. ally."

Thank you for that bit of analysis. Your mind reading is most appreciated. I can only hope that you have planted this certainty into the minds of those who would return the Caliphate. 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:34 | 2197645 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

Short answer: inflation caused by FED and federal fiscal policies.

The global demand issue arising from the creation of fiat weighs heavily as well.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 14:04 | 2204574 ChacoFunFact
ChacoFunFact's picture

http://original.antiwar.com/justin/2012/02/26/hope-in-the-belly-of-the-beast/

This piece covers this exact subject.  There are forces within the US government itself that are on the side of Freedom and Truth.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:32 | 2197110 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

 

Former aide: Powell WMD speech 'lowest point in my life'

 

 

http://articles.cnn.com/2005-08-19/world/powell.un_1_colin-powell-lawren...

:-) I remember his pencil drawing 

In the speech, Powell said he had relied on information he received at Central Intelligence Agency briefings. He said Thursday that then-director George Tenet "believed what he was giving to me was accurate."

But, Powell said, "the intelligence system did not work well."

"There were some people in the intelligence community who knew at the time that some of those sources were not good, and shouldn't be relied upon, and they didn't speak up," Powell said

http://www.usatoday.com/news/washington/2005-09-08-powell-iraq_x.htm

 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:50 | 2197160 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

It's pathetic to see Powell play the "gee, I knew it was wrong, but I did it anyway, and I'm terribly regretful" card.

That he knew it was wrong at the time makes him less worthy of leniency or forgiveness, not more so.

He can scrub as hard as he wants, but his hands will always remain stained with much blood.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 03:06 | 2197233 oldman
oldman's picture

TIS,

Kudos to you for saying so well what needs to be remembered about Iraq and Powell. I am having a really bad time imagining that the public in the US has not reacted against this stupid game. And though, we may have forgotten the lies, deception, and drunken brutal display of power against Iraq in only nine years, we may be certain that the rest of the world has not. Hopefully, someone will come to his or her senses and call this madness off.

A war of the size that this one will be is not the answer to the world's problems; it will push the human species completely over the edge. This time it is different and a war will not set the economy right(it never has) as some fools are claiming. My response to the end of the Mayan Calendar has always been to buy a 2013 calendar, but if there is a war

"You can kiss yo' ass goodbye-------" as Nuclear War by Sun Ra says.

I cannot believe any of this is possible ----it just can't be!

hope for a miracle, folks-----a war will not end well for our species              om   

 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 06:03 | 2197326 Bringin It
Sun, 02/26/2012 - 07:42 | 2197383 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

It's pathetic to see Powell play the "gee, I knew it was wrong, but I did it anyway, and I'm terribly regretful" card.

_____________________________________________________

Pathetic maybe. Lucrative surely.

Regimes sending innocent people to jail existed before the rise of US citizenism.

What did not exist near the current extent, is regimes allowing people to make money confess misdeeds in the press while being charged of nothing.

Powell is a US citizen.

Did he take his share engineering the war against Iraq? Yes, he did.

Did he make money by confessing he knew the stuff was hogwash? Yes, he did. This point was the marketing pinacle to sell his memoirs book.

Money making.

US citizen hatred on justice makes it possible to play all angles.

You can deny facts, making money doing so and later, confessed knowning you denied facts, making money doing so, walk free of any charges and to top it all, be considered a national hero.

That is indeed the legacy of US citizenism to humanity, another giant leap for mankind.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 09:07 | 2197447 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

"US citizen"

You keep using that word. I do not think it means what you think it means.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 09:13 | 2197455 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Absolutely right. 'Americans' know best. It is well known.

Without the gift of 'Americanism' to the world, one shudders at the thought of what humanity would be.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 09:15 | 2197459 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

Does that include central and south america?

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 09:53 | 2197506 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Ah, ah.

Made me laugh.

Here's the perfect example of why 'US citizenism' should be used instead of 'Americanism'

That's exactly that. Dilution in the larger base possible.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 10:31 | 2197553 bigkahuna
bigkahuna's picture

what with all the hyperinflation and currency debasement---that could not be, could it?

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 09:16 | 2197461 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Free Tibet!!!

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 09:52 | 2197504 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

And Taiwan!

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 09:56 | 2197512 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Dont stop there if you want to hijack freedom in a US citizen move, humanity demands it.

Free the US of A.

Arent the Americans deserved to be free too? Or is freedom only reserved to Tibetans or Taiwanese? Ah, yes, Indians are only good when dead.

Note to US citizen chinese: you know what you have to do to be recognized as US citizens by historical US citizens.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 10:03 | 2197523 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Chinese citizenism is eternal!!!

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 10:50 | 2197579 Thorny Xi
Thorny Xi's picture

The Mormons will get everyone in the world a green card posthumously...

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 12:33 | 2197808 Pope Clement
Pope Clement's picture

AnAn quit being such an inscrutable prick - how about a link on what 'citizenism' means ?

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 15:52 | 2198454 IQ 101
IQ 101's picture

Citizenism means you are blobbing up, i think.I could use a link on Blobbing up, to get a better picture.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 10:44 | 2197573 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Powell mkes me sick because unlike Cheney he actually has  human conscience ...but the bstard did it anyway

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:40 | 2197653 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

He legitimized the war to the America people by his actions. He's a traitor to this country. He is nothing more now than a former Cheney's henchman.

 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 17:58 | 2198734 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

agreed

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 12:01 | 2197710 Seer
Seer's picture

This is Powell's history.  His involvement of My Lai shows that this went WAY back:

http://www.usvetdsp.com/story13.htm

POWER CORRUPTS.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 14:39 | 2198219 oldman
oldman's picture

All I remember about the dude is that he was the guy who preached 'overwhelming force' as an academic in the provost marshall's

He ate a lot more than he will ever pay for

this guy is a pig king----how could anyone have expected other knowing his history

And how many more?

Survival is not simply guns, gold. and food

It is a mindset that has nearly escaped the US    Get ready, folks if this war goes------

Well, instead of my naming it    think a bit and fill in the blank

see ya on the other side                       om

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 17:04 | 2198632 grgy
grgy's picture

What if he really was deceived?  It's hard to use the word "integrity" and the Bush (Obama) administrations in the same sentence, but I think Powell had the most.

Mon, 02/27/2012 - 09:44 | 2200199 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

If certain people are to be believed, his act of literally shouting that he "wasn't going to read this bullshit" in the car driving him to the now infamous U.N. Security Council presentation just before he read that bullshit at the now infamous U.N. Security Council presentation would indicate that he is not the duped you are looking for.

Mon, 02/27/2012 - 22:03 | 2202402 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Funny how they give this job to the Black guy.

Mon, 02/27/2012 - 01:05 | 2199733 overbet
overbet's picture

That's my down vote by mistake. I retract it. Stupid fucking iPad fat finger. Sry

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 09:32 | 2197484 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

That was pathetic watching him in adress. It was at that point when I knew for certain that the U.S. officials where full of shit. When he showed those pictures of the "mobile chemical weapons trucks" I thought holy crap this is ridiculous. Up until that time I wasn't certain about what was the truth and what was a lie. But after that speech I knew who the liars were.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 13:32 | 2197996 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

Powell being on board with the NeoCons was the ONLY reason I thought Iraq might be as bad as they said. I knew after the second week that Everyone was a liar. Fuck a bunch of lying ass NeoCons and their lap dog media. This Iran crap is the same old bullshit. And fuck Israel too. 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 07:28 | 2197374 _ConanTheLibert...
_ConanTheLibertarian_'s picture

I can't find a link but I knew I had this one on my harddrive:

PowellPoint (presents anything you want)

PS. It would be nice to be able to use an IMG tag:

<img src="http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6110/powellpoint.gif">

[img]http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/6110/powellpoint.gif[/img]

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 12:55 | 2197880 max2205
max2205's picture

Nice to see all of you CIA and Homeland Security contractors posting here so early in the morning.

BTW didn't Nancy 'Pleasedontblameme' just say high priced oil is the result of speculators ( of the Congressional type no doubt)

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 13:38 | 2198019 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

No shit.

The Socket Puppet Brigade is out in fulll force today, drinking stale coffee and posting imbecilic counter-intelligence (and I do mean counter-intelligence quite literally).

 

Hello, Sock Puppets! <waving my ballsack towards you vigorously>

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 16:30 | 2198544 The Heart
The Heart's picture

ROTFLMAO!!!

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 16:35 | 2198559 The Heart
The Heart's picture

Does anyone know if there are there any bets that isreal will do an EMP on Iran?

 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 08:50 | 2197429 MSimon
MSimon's picture

Iraq was developing nukes. In Libya. The run up to the war helped flush that out. Just to keep the record straight.

 

And it is possible that it was Saddam fooling the spooks.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 10:53 | 2197586 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

funny word cause there is absolutely nothing "straight" about the record

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:17 | 2197624 prole
prole's picture

Like Judas was paid a bag of silver, Colin Powell was well paid to tell lies, big lies, total lies, official lies and bold-faced lies.

What's your reason?

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:41 | 2197657 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

What's your reason?

A little higher than min wage shill job. Needs more training.

 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 12:35 | 2197814 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

Everyone on this thread seems to have a favorite villain, and Colin Powell is getting a lot of votes. But one thing that no one has mentioned is that Powell spent his entire professional life as a soldier, rising to the rank of general. Given that, he was motivated mostly by loyalty and unquestioning obedience to his Commander in Chief, not philosophical critiques or moral arguments. To expect otherwise is unrealistic.

If you're looking for true evil in the run-up to Iraq, you might want to review some of the claims made at that time by Donald Rumsfeld.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 13:21 | 2197950 knightowl77
knightowl77's picture

or George Tenet, Tony Blair, Hillary Clinton and John Kerry.....et al.....They all had a hand in it....This is pointless

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 13:37 | 2198015 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

Or Paul WolfO'wits and Bill Kristol and the walking dead, Dick fucking Cheney.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 17:37 | 2198698 Amish Hacker
Amish Hacker's picture

Agreed, and I in no way intended to praise or excuse Powell's actions. I merely wanted to point out that saying, "Colin Powell was well paid to tell lies," is just silly. Look at the larger picture of the man's entire life. It is far more likely, imo, that he was motivated by a sense of duty, however morally blind it may have been, not by $$$.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 22:59 | 2199420 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Powell made an Oath to defend the Constitution.  He failed in that Oath.  He helped due what could be irrepairable harm to the Constitution.

Mon, 02/27/2012 - 00:14 | 2199628 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Don't forget the Prince of Darkness, Richard Perle, who was in on the ground floor of literally writing the blueprints for invading Iraq in the late 1990s as a member of PNAC (Project For A New American Centuty; sounds warm & fuzzy), and served as hairman of the Defense Policy Board, an advisory panel to the Pentagon.

The FBI at one time had wanted to indict him for spying on the United States (and they had hard evidence), but W's father quashed those efforts.

Perle and his fellow uber-neocons, including Wolfowitz, laid the groundwork of false pretenses for a full invasion of Iraq, but they had to get the right puppet in the White House to get their plans executed.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 15:07 | 2198299 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

well, if you truly believe

he was motivated mostly by loyalty and unquestioning obedience to his Commander in Chief, not philosophical critiques or moral arguments. To expect otherwise is unrealistic.

then a hard think about what the current military will be up to when recalled to "service the homeland" is in order.

no morals, unquestioning loyalty. . . zero respect.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 18:00 | 2198738 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

as usual, nice point

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 22:23 | 2199297 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

great Academy Award comments from the makers of A Separation 

Mon, 02/27/2012 - 22:36 | 2202471 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

Big diff btwn Powell and Rummy, Clit or Cheney. Everyone knew they were crooks.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 18:26 | 2198802 Colombian Gringo
Colombian Gringo's picture

In the absence of proof of Weapons of Mass Destruction, I guess it is OK to kill millions based the doctrine of pre-emption. Let's just hope that in 20 years, the Chinese do not adopt the same stance against the US.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 09:10 | 2197449 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

TruthInSunshine

Dude, Kamal stated ALL weapons had been destroyed. That was 96. Clinton knew and stopped any further confirmation.


 

http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=1845

On February 24, Newsweek broke what may be the biggest story of the Iraq crisis. In a revelation that "raises questions about whether the WMD [weapons of mass destruction] stockpiles attributed to Iraq still exist," the magazine's issue dated March 3 reported that the Iraqi weapons chief who defected from the regime in 1995 told U.N. inspectors that Iraq had destroyed its entire stockpile of chemical and biological weapons and banned missiles, as Iraq claims.

Until now, Gen. Hussein Kamel, who was killed shortly after returning to Iraq in 1996, was best known for his role in exposing Iraq's deceptions about how far its pre-Gulf War biological weapons programs had advanced. But Newsweek's John Barry-- who has covered Iraqi weapons inspections for more than a decade-- obtained the transcript of Kamel's 1995 debriefing by officials from the International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA) and the U.N. inspections team known as UNSCOM.

Inspectors were told "that after the Gulf War, Iraq destroyed all its chemical and biological weapons stocks and the missiles to deliver them," Barry wrote. All that remained were "hidden blueprints, computer disks, microfiches" and production molds. The weapons were destroyed secretly, in order to hide their existence from inspectors, in the hopes of someday resuming production after inspections had finished. The CIA and MI6 were told the same story, Barry reported, and "a military aide who defected with Kamel... backed Kamel's assertions about the destruction of WMD stocks."

But these statements were "hushed up by the U.N. inspectors" in order to "bluff Saddam into disclosing still more."

 

http://www.fair.org/press-releases/kamel.pdf

Interview with Hussein Kamal on 22 August 1995 - UNSCOM/IAEA

 

http://www.counterpunch.org/2007/09/29/iraq-s-wmd-myth/


Why Clinton is Culpable Iraq’s WMD Myth

It was March 1997. For six years the UN inspectors had been probing the secrets of Saddam’s weapons programs, in the process destroying huge quantities of chemical munitions and other production facilities. To enforce Saddam’s cooperation, Iraq was subject to crushing sanctions.

Now, Rolf Ekeus, the urbane Swedish diplomat who headed the inspection effort, was ready to announce that his work was almost done. "I was getting close to certifying that Iraq was in compliance with Resolution 687," he confirmed to me recently.

At the time, he declared that although there were some loose ends to be cleared up, "not much is unknown about Iraq’s retained proscribed weapons capabilities."

For the Clinton administration, this was a crisis. If Ekeus was allowed to complete his mission, then the suspension of sanctions would follow almost automatically.

Saddam would be off the hook and, more importantly for the Clintonites, the neo-conservative republicans would be howling for the president’s blood.

The only hope was somehow to prevent Ekeus completing his mission.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 10:38 | 2197561 centurain
centurain's picture

I guess most people assume the term WMD means nuclear.  Alas my friend it does not.  I was in both Iraq and Afghanistan and personally know 4 men who got mustard gas poisoning in Iraq in 2004.  We can agree that ending the cease-fire that had been in effect since 1991 and re-declaring war was not correct.  I cannot agree anymore with people on here who claim there were no WMD's because they think readable knowledge gives them expertise.  I was an EOD tech in the Army and will gladly correspond with anyone who would like proof for or against anything they believe or wish to challenge me on.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:24 | 2197631 prole
prole's picture

I think you have got your wars confused. Mustard gas was WW1.

If and I say if Saddam had some trivial amount of obsolete and innefective hundred year old Verdun stockpiled mustard gas, it was obviously of no use to him, his army, or of any use whatsoever to humanity.

Well it does serve a purpose I guess, it allows an apologist for aggressive wars to justify his paycheck and the killing of 4? thousand American troops in a pathetic post on a web-blog at 9:38 AM Sunday 2-26

Iraqnamistan wars for profit built on bold-faced lies and the rotting corpses of the thousands of American dead. Justify away.......

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 12:05 | 2197713 booboo
booboo's picture

Er, the gassed Kurds and Iranians are calling you on line #2 Sir, should I take a message?

I think the wars are bullshit too but you don't bolster your argument by ignoring the facts, ok, so it was not yellow in color. Our boys getting gassed, hmm, don't know about that but getting residual effects of contaminated environment, maybe.

 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 12:23 | 2197773 prole
prole's picture

Tell them I apologize for my country sticking our nose in their business and from henceforth they can fight their wars without our interference NOT)

Hmm, Kurds and Iranians... Now I have nothing against Kurds and Iranians, I don't even know what "Kurds" are, geographical ignorance I'm sorry.

But are you sir, justifying invasions and aggressive war for $$, the killing of 4? thousand American troops, the ruining of our economy, our enslavement to the military industrial molesting and radiating kids at airports complex to some propaganda which may or may not be true (but which is 100% not our business regardless) about our supposed concern for Iranians and Kurds?

One party of which we are about to subject to nuclear genocide holocaust?

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 12:39 | 2197830 booboo
booboo's picture

Um, you may want to re-read my post for starters, move on to Google "kurds" perhaps throw in "gas" and you will be clearer on the subject of Iraqi gas capability AFTER the first Gulf War.

This does not mean I support an invasion, TSA, and all of the other assumptions you lay at my feet, in fact just the opposite but your lack of knowledge is not helping the cause.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 15:18 | 2198340 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

*click* . . . whirrr. . .cue tape loop:

we know Iraq had weapons of mass destruction because we have the sales receipts. . .

 

Iraq's WMD - Made in America

The US government had been selling WMD to Iraq since Ronald Reagan was President, and probably for even longer. Until at least as late as George Bush's presidency, the USA continued to arm Iraq with nuclear, biological and chemical weapons.

http://www.theinsider.org/news/article.asp?id=0504

. . .end transmission, *click*

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:47 | 2197676 ArmchairRevolut...
ArmchairRevolutionary's picture

So almost a full year after Bush declared Mission Accomplished men you know experienced mustard gas poisoing? Not that the mission was actually accomplished, but there was not any established command and control military opponent by that point.

Wow! You are seriously full of shit!

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 20:09 | 2197722 Benjamin Glutton
Benjamin Glutton's picture

Yellow cake missing????

Iran has yet to give an explanation over a small quantity of uranium metal missing from a research site, the U.N. nuclear watchdog said in a report that voiced concern over possible military links to Tehran’s nuclear program.

The discrepancy found at the research site in the Iranian capital came to light after measurements by international inspectors last year failed to match the amount declared by the laboratory.

Experts say the quantity of natural uranium not accounted for is too small to be used for a bomb, but that it could be relevant to weapons-linked tests.

The United States has expressed concern the material may have been diverted to suspected weapons-related research .

“The discrepancy remains to be clarified,” said the latest quarterly report on Iran by the U.N. International Atomic Energy Agency (IAEA), issued to member states on Friday evening.

U.N. inspectors have sought information from Iran to help explain the issue after their inventory last August of natural uranium metal and process waste at the research facility in Tehran measured 19.8 kg (43.6 pounds) less than the laboratory’s count.

http://www.jewishjournal.com/world/article/iaea_iran_uranium_discrepancy...

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2012/02/24/iran-nuclear-program-iaea_n_129...

http://www.nti.org/gsn/article/iran-seeks-additional-talks-iaea/

The case for war with Iran is a slam dunk for the warmongers compared to that which was used to attack Iraq.

edit:

I should have added that I believe we should not interfere in Iran's personal affairs.

 

 

 

 

 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 18:04 | 2198742 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

But, wait! There's more!

There were WMDs in Iraq. Some were supplied by Hank Kissinger, some by Joe Vladimir.

How would it look for "the press" to find all those neat cannisters with "US ARMY/PROVO UTAH and "whatever stuff" in Russian on them?

No, let Ivan take those nasty things to Syria, Mr presidential tool. Ve shall deal vif zem later.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:49 | 2197153 Milestones
Milestones's picture

Apparently everyone in D.C. and Tele Viv I.Q. can be measured on the Richter Scale. I have an 8 year old grandson who is more intelligent than all that live on the Patomec. Good grief!!        Milestones 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 02:07 | 2197181 Michael
Michael's picture

The world oligarchs are just pissed off because they know they will never get their global carbon tax now with this final nail in their man-made global warming scam coffin.

What triggered Dr. Peter Gleick to commit identity fraud on January 27th? http://wattsupwiththat.com/2012/02/25/what-triggered-dr-peter-gleick-to-do-identify-fraud-on-jan-27th/#more-57557

That, Climategate, and the deepening solar minimum screwed them over pretty good.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 03:28 | 2197240 Michael
Michael's picture

The Ron Paul Crew and their friends are responsible for breaking thru the public plane of consciousness. That's what has them so riled up.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 03:45 | 2197261 Michael
Michael's picture

What the Federal Government should do is send every legal American a copy on a DVD in PDF form, of all the laws they made for us that we are supposed to abide by.

Including postage, it shouldn't cost more than $2.00/ea.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 03:58 | 2197271 Michael
Michael's picture

War on Drugs;

You can't win a war against non-living physical objects.

War on Terror;

You can't win a war against a tactic.

Realizing this is called being awake.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 04:42 | 2197297 Michael
Michael's picture

I call this writing tweets. That's all it is. Nothing more than that. No big deal.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 15:26 | 2198363 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

your multi-posts are the in-thread equivalent of having to sit next to a self-centered dude on public transport - always with the splayed legs taking up all available space. . .

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 18:30 | 2198809 Colombian Gringo
Colombian Gringo's picture

Methinks doth protest too much. There is a huge difference between being on a public bus taking up 'All the space' and 5 posts on a screen.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 21:05 | 2199142 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

sitting spread eagle in a public space appears similar to the repeat replies to one's own posts, thus ensuring one's avatar is spread across each screen. . .

it was snark, true, but it happens on every thread he posts, and is usually hit 'n' run . . . /shrugs.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 17:01 | 2198625 The Heart
The Heart's picture

War on Hunger...in a land that can feed the world.

War on Poverty...in a land that has more Gold and natural resources in the western mountains untapped then most places in the world.

War on Illiteracy...in a land that still has many great thinkers as Zero Hedge proves beyond a shadow of doubt.

War on Drugs...in a land that has more pharmaceutical drug consumers than any place on the planet.

War on Freedom....in a land of the free.

War on Peace...in a land of the peaceful.

War on Americans...by a fascist govt.

War on the Worlds People...by the globalistic eliteless pig-butt-sucking eugenicists that profit from war and death.

War!

More?

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 02:00 | 2197172 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture

 

 

Just can’t seem to get those pesky little Iranians to pull the trigger first. Damn, let’s go back and forth through the straights a few more times for no reason. You get on your hands and knees behind him and I’ll push him over you (in the school yard) so he can be humiliated and laughed at….. Everyone laugh and point ha ha ha – surely he is going to snap any minute ……

 

Snap brown guy, snap will you [pushing him full force in the chest]. Do it, come on, do it. Who’s going to stop me ………… [Black Swan Moment]

 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 03:12 | 2197235 your neighbor
your neighbor's picture

How can it be a black swan moment if everyone is just waiting for it?

A real interesting twist would be if the Iranians pull a false flag on themselves but then do not retaliate but just promote the shit out of it. I can see lots of headlines with Russia and China condemning us. The poor Iranian just got attacked but don’t fight back.

That would be a true dilemma for US and Israel

 

 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:30 | 2197509 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture

 

 

A real interesting twist would be if the Iranians …..

 

Well you just answered your own question. When the 4.5 billion dollar carrier is on the seabed - that could be your Black Swan Moment. Because ….. [drum roll] ….. “Never saw THAT coming”.

 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 14:03 | 2198078 cosmictrainwreck
cosmictrainwreck's picture

I hear the Chinese have some interesting sub & missle capabilities, yet to be exploited for global entertainment value

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 21:30 | 2199179 In Fed We Trust
In Fed We Trust's picture

Ah whats 4 billion when you stole 3.2 trillion?

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 15:42 | 2198425 DanDaley
DanDaley's picture

"How can it be a black swan moment if everyone is just waiting for it?"

 

That's what Taleb calls a "gray swan"; sort of expected, sort of prepared for.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 03:12 | 2197236 your neighbor
your neighbor's picture
Sun, 02/26/2012 - 14:00 | 2198087 Pairadimes
Pairadimes's picture

Iranian speedboat captain: "We will show those American infidels the power of our military might!"

 

American carrier captain: "Did you just feel a bump?"

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 15:40 | 2198421 Rick Masters
Rick Masters's picture

Google ths USS Cole numnuts.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 20:28 | 2199069 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture

 

 

 

Oopsy, didn’t see THAT coming ………..

 

Link = USS Cole

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:23 | 2197091 Coke and Hookers
Coke and Hookers's picture

It's like there are two camps in the US fighting it out over Iran. There seem to be a number of people in the intelligence community and the Pentagon who outright oppose an attack. What is even more interesting is the fact that they are speaking up. There's a group of very powerful people pushing hard for an attack - mostly the good old globalist usual suspects. Their opponents seem to have brought the 'disagreement' over this 'policy' to the next level by making their differences public.

http://presstv.com/detail/227437.html

http://www.alaskadispatch.com/article/senior-pentagon-officials-attackin...

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:37 | 2197105 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

If you read that New York Times article I linked above (or the excerpt), it states that there's unanimous consensus that there's no proof Iran has decided to construct a nuclear bomb and that this "remains the consensus view of America’s 16 intelligence agencies."

Hence, no infighting that I can see, which seems like a top down mandate.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 01:43 | 2197140 Coke and Hookers
Coke and Hookers's picture

Exactly. It's policy which the intelligence community and the Pentagon is now resisting publicly. I think the fact that this consensus has gone public is significant. The Pentagon and the intelligence community usually just shut up and play along but not now. Why? Maybe I'm seeing something that isn't there but this looks like a rift between the policymakers and the hands on guys to me.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 02:07 | 2197174 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I agree that Santorum & Romney will continue to ignore the unanimus consensus of 16 U.S. intelligence agencies while on their campaign trail, and in fact, will try to outdo each other in terms of convincing the most zealous portion of the right wing base that they're going to start war upon Iran no matter what, as in some sort of manifest destiny.

In the meantime, Obama-Pelosi-Reid will be blaming evil speculators and mideast tensions for high oil/gasoline prices as they continue to support The Bernank's debasing of the dollar and enabling of massive U.S. deficit spending.

It's so fantastic that we have such a broad range of political parties having leaders of such integrity that we can choose from when we cast our ballots.

 

p.s. - When I said that "I get the distinct impression that the U.S. actually just officially smacked down Israel and neocons within its own agencie..." above, I should have been more specific and instead have said that it appears that the U.S. smacked down the hawks in Israel, because to be fair, there are many, even some former high ranking officials of the IDF and Israeli intelligence agencies, who have come out publicly and vehemently against pre-emptive military strikes upon Iran (even if they appear to be the minority voice for now). I believe it's critical to lend credit where credit is due.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 03:20 | 2197245 oldman
oldman's picture

Truth,

Hopefully, Jimmy Carter has been on the phone over the past day or so

Where is he when we need him?

I did not understand the magnitude of his courageous stand---all alone in '79/'80. I was ashamed to have voted for him and ashamed of the country; but he remains the only US president to resolved a war without death and destruction or the environmental and economic costs involved.

I don't care who dogs on this issue, being an oldman makes this shit very much different than when I  was 39

I'm pretty upset by this entire conversation-----I hope people get into the street over this

I hope, I hope, I hope--------------     om

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 03:42 | 2197259 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I agree that Carter's heart and soul were in the right place on matters of war and peace, even if many of his implentations of policy were disasters.

He did the dance with dictators and despots from time to time, just in terms of maintaining or opening dialogue, for the sake of trying to achieve a greater good ultimately (prevention of more innocent bloodshed).

Curiously, Nixon (despite his significant warts) did this, too, I believe, in opening the door to full blown diplomatic ties with China, which probably helped keep us out of further military entanglements in southeast asia, JFK did this when he established a no condition 24/7 hotline with the Soviets in the midst and wake of the Cuban Missile Crisis, and even Reagan deserves credit, upon acknowledging nuclear war is truly a zero sum game, for initiating the unprecedented nuclear arms reduction agreements (SALT) with the USSR.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:04 | 2197600 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

and therein lies the word: "peace." Let me define it for you: "the bad guys get what they want and you don't." that's all "peace" is. Unless and until you are ready to...ahem..."disengage"...ahem, ahem...then the only advocacy being done is for war. this of course is an option as well--provided a realistic assesment of resources demanded of said activity are realized. I've always said "about 10 million Americans are required." Neither the war-mongers on the left nor the war-mongers on the right have ever brought up any numbers...and indeed the Administration has said (mistakenly in my view) that they are going to REDUCE the size and scope of the military. (Ask Senator McCain how well that worked during our withdrawal from Vietnam.) Anywho..."water under the bridge" as they say. "What in actuality happens is what happens." This whole "i'm in control" thing is everywhere and always an illusion--and unless and until a determination is made to actually start paying for things...well...

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 15:45 | 2198438 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

well, now that we've named all the amrkn figureheads back to Nixon, maybe there can be acknowledgment that they ALL played their role, and the goal of the role is GLOBALISATION. . .

who was Nixon's Secretary of State?  Kissinger.  even just a wiki-research should provide enough *ahah* moments to connect the dots. . .

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kissinger#D.C3.A9tente_and_the_opening_to_C...

read this small post, listen to the clip of Lord Rothschild singing the praises of all he sees in Beijing. . .

http://www.abeldanger.net/2011/08/rothschild-in-china-investing-in-china...

everything has led to this, and still some people sip the KoolAid.    moving right along. . .

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 18:22 | 2198793 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Kissinger is one of the few who give Cheney a run for his money 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 23:58 | 2199582 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

two who give me a genuine *shudder* whenever I see their pics - particularly Cheney of late - pure.evil.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 20:38 | 2199088 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture

 

 

TIS, Old, cocaine, etc  ... good rant

Santorum says there's a US program to kill Iranian scientists and dead ones are a wonderful thing

 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 21:00 | 2199131 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Taint Boil noted:

Santorum says there's a US program to kill Iranian scientists and dead ones are a wonderful thing

"Frothy" Santorum is pro-life, so he's opposed to killing future Iranian scientist fetuses. Of course, once they're squeezed out of the womb, they're fair game for bombing.


Sun, 02/26/2012 - 21:10 | 2199151 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

yup, it's the government's responsibility to carefully monitor the pre-birth period, but once yer out - yer on your own.

hmmm. . . is it gettin' drafty in here?. . .

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 07:15 | 2197368 Element
Element's picture

A man who worked on nuke boat and lived with what could so easily happen, and would very much rather it didn't get started.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 18:10 | 2198671 The Heart
The Heart's picture

Blessings to you and yours bro Element.

Many thanks for the post to the other comment.

Posted some more thoughts there.

As the light around the subjects get more and more attention, there is more awareness happening daily.

Choices between more war, and or not are being made every day. The war on Choice is taking a hard hit.

Give thanks. Maybe the majority it will take to make the shift in the mass-mind will be reached before anything can go pop goes the weasel.

What if the war makers spent as much time and ENERGY learning how to be Peacemakers instead of warmongers?

 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 04:03 | 2197275 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

TIS suggest you take the time to read the cited reports for yourself before you let the Media tell you what to think,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,

Didn't we all have enough of that with Iraq? 

Get off you butt and don't be so lazy in the future, do a little homework.

And just so we are clear. I don't approve of starting a war with Iran and am not a "hawk" in any way shape or form.  But I find this times article offensive because of the distortion in it.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 05:55 | 2197328 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

hce,

As I recall, in the runup to the Iraq War, Judith Miller (a former New York Times journalist who was really a neocon plant) was knowingly spreading false info in her reports on Iraq's (alleged) WMD program at the behest of Cheney and Scooter Libby. She was even imprisoned for a short time after the fiasco played out because she had refused to inform the court of her 'source' regarding the matter.

The New York Times was a propaganda tool (no big surprise) used to falsely paint the WMD pretext for an invasion of Iraq, with Judith Miller as the head propagandist.

In this article, there's no rah-rah cheerleading or fomenting of military action.

I'm not sure if you're suggesting that one should always assume the opposite of what a souce like the NYT or the NYT itself says, or if you're saying that I'm missing something or misinterpreting something within this article?

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 10:07 | 2197531 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

This article is an example of "bad journalism". This is propaganda. It misrepresents and distorts the sources it is citing.  But I don't know why they would do this...  Not enough information to reach a conclusion, at this time.

 

 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 17:34 | 2198695 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

NYT=CIA

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 18:26 | 2198799 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

Yes Judith is one of my anti-heores. In many ways the new condensed corporate super pac press is 100 times worse than the Pravda paradigm

At least there, everyone knows the only thing in print is theirs.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 07:11 | 2197365 Element
Element's picture

TiS, another significant difference with the Iraq analoge;

With Iraq, Israel completely escaped direct combat blowback.

With Iran, Israel really will get directly hammered from multiple directions.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:35 | 2197647 prole
prole's picture

That is assuming a lot and nothing but opinion.

"With Iran" I rather think they will sidestep any retaliation as always. Now that's just my opinion, but what is Iran going to do with its obsolete non-flying airforce? Against a Naval and Air Farce of latest tech- cost no object killing and destroying toys? (I am reefering to us and our "allies")

I'll answer that: What they are going to do is send over a SCUD and blow up a dump truck. Which is exactly what Saddams defense, or "defense" lol of Iraq did.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 13:47 | 2198046 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

No, I think Element is quite correct, and it's hard to make a case that Israel won't be blamed, nearly squarely, for any pre-emptive strike on Iran (whether or not they really are the driving force for such an action; everyone has an opinion on this, given that there's quite a complex game of hide the sausage going on with Saudi Arabia's thorny relationship with Iran, etc.).

It probably won't help Israel deflect blowback for the adverse consequences of such hostilities given that they've been so vocal in even threatening unilateral action through their own media proxies.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 17:55 | 2198725 The Heart
The Heart's picture

"...,but what is Iran going to do with its obsolete non-flying airforce?"

 

Blah blah but what is interesting is you say this as if you know something.

What was inspired was the very real possibility of isreal doing something quite horrible real soon. Or, on the other side of the false flag coin, causing something horrible to happen again to motivate a war against Iran. Stupid is as stupid does and Everyone knows now how these war by deception evil things operate. It is evil and evil never changes. It is always evil and always predictable.

Parts of the aforementioned post are re-posted for you below to share with your friends and neighbors for entertainment purposes only.

 

"The Starfish prime test was the bomb that led to the discovery of the massive EMP at high altitude.

It blew out fuses 1000 miles away in Hawaii.

It was a 5.6 Kv/m EMP.

The EMP weapons of today, can generate an EMP of 200,000 Kv/M. 40 times more powerful."

What happened to the missing nukes anyways?

http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid=7158

To all with eyes to see and ears to hear, it has been pointed out previously that all this election stuff could go away in a heartbeat after such a planned EMP attack. If this does happen, we will be devastated in America and quickly on our way towards the new world disorder.

(Element makes good points about this not happening because it would dis-empower those who seek to destroy us all)

Didn’t newt gingrich speak to this recently?

http://www.wnd.com/2011/11/370917/

(Element makes good points about who actually has the ability to do such a thing, which spawns the idea of this addition.)

***On the other hand, there is also the possibility that Israel will surprise attack Iran with a EMP also or something else?

http://newmediajournal.us/indx.php/item/4359

http://empandsolarprotection.com/2011/11/how-would-israel-attack-iran%E2...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QCYbEujiKPU

Helpful and supportive links:

http://www.thespacereview.com/article/1549/1

http://www.zengardner.com/disasters/insider-warns-family-of-emp-strike-o...

http://survivalism.blogspot.com/2010/03/prepare-what-to-do-after-emp-str...
(Hard copy this)

http://www.survivalblog.com/2010/08/emp_attack_and_solar_storms_a.html

http://www.independentsentinel.com/2011/08/tehran-preparing-for-the-emp-...

http://endoftheamericandream.com/archives/life-after-an-emp-attack-no-po...

http://whentechfails.com/node/1545

http://www.wnd.com/2005/05/30347/

http://www.pakalertpress.com/2011/12/30/emp-commission-warns-catastrophi...

Expand your horizons. Watch the movie, share the message.

http://www.bombiran.org/why-we-fight/

Failing to prepare…is preparing to fail.

War is not Peace.

 

 

 

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 06:12 | 2197333 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Maybe the neo-nuts are afraid that some significant number of troops will not support another illegal order to start another illegal war??  What GOP candidate do the troops support??  What's his position on illegal wars, stirring up trouble, over there?? 

Shedding the blood of innocents in support of the bankster agenda is not a good deal.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:31 | 2197639 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

Well we can't let them end all these little wars now can we.  Gotta have an enemy somewhere.  Gotta keep practicing for that big one and keep lining the pockets of the armament industry.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 13:47 | 2198045 lazarus
lazarus's picture

We have always been at war with Eastasia.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 21:38 | 2199195 In Fed We Trust
In Fed We Trust's picture

Maybe the Pentagon is pissed that the US military hit it with a cruise missle and then had its budget slashed at the expense of HLS , TSA, nsa etc.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 02:49 | 2197215 falun bong
falun bong's picture

Americans have no clue how much Permanent War has been baked into the culture. You don't even see it any more. TV shows about military people, fawning documentaries about the latest missile system, shots of the troops in Afghanistan during the Superbowl...it goes on and on. And all that is over and above what the klepto-corporate media spews out, Fox, GE etc etc etc.

The US has 40 military bases surrounding Iran. What would you do if you were them? If the biggest global bully had just kicked the living shit out of your neighbor (and that was supposed to be an ally...)? If that bully had gotten rid of your president (Mossadegh) and installed their puppet, with the worst torturing secret police ever (Savak)? You'd be trying pretty hard to get a nuke. But as cited above, the official document that summarizes the best thinking of 16 major US intelligence agencies, finds NO EVIDENCE Iran is building a nuclear weapon. And if we're going to bomb all the countries who MIGHT build one in the future and just MIGHT be hostile to us, let's just start with the A's: Argentina, Belgium, Canada, Denmark, Estonia, Finland, Greece, Hungary, Italy, Japan, Korea, Latvia, Mexico, Nigeria, Oman, Phillippines...

So why the fuck are we even talking about an Iran War? There is only one possible conclusion: America really has become the all time war monger evil empire that only radicals were screaming about 10 years ago.

Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Eisenhower...all tossing in their graves. No other conclusion. I will challenge anyone, anywhere to debate this. Bring it.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 03:54 | 2197267 Leraconteur
Leraconteur's picture

Americans have no clue how much Permanent War has been baked into the culture. You don't even see it any more. TV shows about military people, fawning documentaries about the latest missile system, shots of the troops in Afghanistan during the Superbowl...it goes on and on. And all that is over and above what the klepto-corporate media spews out, Fox, GE etc etc etc.

It's worse even that this. All weather forecasts in the USA, local, national and cable, use military tactical and strategic language when describing the weather.

"Front, move in, come across, strike a glancing blow", etc.

You don't really notice it until you step outside for a period of time and see the USA from the outside, bars and all.

Of course the SuperBowl is one huge propaganda show, but the daily weather forecast is more frequent and insidious.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 16:01 | 2198471 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

noticed from over here as well - the militarised "talking points" and use of "strategic language" is ubiquitous in amrka - I haven't been around TV or mainstream radio/news for many years now, and every time I encounter it in someone else's space I'm repulsed by how much propaganda is embedded in the language.

as for the weather forecasts. . . well, the military made it clear back in the late 90's "they" were aiming to "own" the weather in the coming decades, so Lord Rothschild's recent "investement" in Weather Central, etc. is moving right along, hmm. . .

http://www.abeldanger.net/2011/08/rothschild-in-china-investing-in-china...

all media, all news, all information. . . captured.

(by the way, past 36 hours have seen spike in earthquake activity in. . . greece, turkey, iran areas. . . and alaska.)

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 17:30 | 2198677 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Ha ha. Miss Lindsey and McPain must be warming up that HAARPie thang.

"This heah switch, Jonnie?"

"Noooo, that's for hurricanes. Earthquakes are that little blue button."

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 21:16 | 2199168 Cathartes Aura
Cathartes Aura's picture

I like to watch the earthquake activity, and can honestly say that the past couple of days have shown heightened activity for European states - including France, Spain, Italy, Germany ^^ - but definitely Turkey & Greece. . . and southern Alaska. . .

but yeah, going into March, it will become the norm to see larger quakes - the 10 in S. Siberia were "unusual" for that area. . .

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 21:14 | 2199160 nicxios
nicxios's picture

You don't really notice it until you step outside for a period of time and see the USA from the outside, bars and all.

THIS. I thought I knew, but when you step outside and look in you realize the scope.


Sun, 02/26/2012 - 04:05 | 2197276 oldman
oldman's picture

Falun,

Many of us do understand the conditioning

We are not talking about war

A few of us are talking about war; the same idiots that gave us an oil crisis, a financial collapse, and are giving the tax dollars of three future generations to the Whimpys at the banks(I'll give you a hundred trillion dollars tomorrow for ten trillion dollars today).

There is no need to debate---there is a need to get as many people in the streets as quickly as possible, so I just sent some of the comments above and the link to ten people who may be able to get someone in the street.

It seems to me that the 'consensus' is a call for help to avoid a war that will be much more destructive to our species than any of us can imagine---and I am not including any 'nuclear option' .

You want to help-----send this story out and ask for it------the timing is now----

We gotta try something besides writing letters to Congress and voting

There may be no time for any of that if we don't say"NO!!!!!!" really loud

I don't know how to do this or what else to do

Yeah, I'm panicked-----I have seen this madness for seventy years

Please help stop it      om

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 10:58 | 2197592 hardcleareye
hardcleareye's picture

Oldman, the only way you are going to get the US citizens to be involved is to start flying home body bags along with a draft aka Vietnam.  By the time that rolls around it will be to late because unlike Vietnam this will indeed become a war for survival.

Do you too remember what it took to get the Vietnam madness stopped?  Do you remember watching the TV to see what your number would be in the lottery?  Do you remember the FBI surveillance/harassment for the people who worked to stop the draft/war?  How about all the boys that came home in bags? 

This generation has forgotten and we have failed to remind them.  It is to late......

Namaste

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 15:21 | 2198296 oldman
oldman's picture

HCE,

Yes, I do remember, so this time I am going to be a whiney bitch and----------------------------------

fuck any redneck who doesn't like whiney bitchez!

What is your idea?

Remember, I am the 'do-nothing' dude, but everything is too delicate at this time for this war----I think humans have never been in this place before and that we may not have the reslience to recover from the consequences, unintended or not.

Listen, I am just an oldman with average intelligence, but without any fear. For myself, I really don't give a fuck----but something is driving this whiney bitch-----

I don't know                    om

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 15:31 | 2198393 knightowl77
knightowl77's picture

...."so this time I am going to be a whiney bitch and fuck any redneck who doesn't like whiney bitchez."

 

Come hard om or stay home

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 17:26 | 2198674 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Yeah, you fight to win. Then get out.

We lost our Sight in that one.

Towards the End there was a lot of weed passing thru the hootch.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:37 | 2197649 MSimon
MSimon's picture

Please help stop it

 

When dod ZH become infested with whiney bitchez?

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:45 | 2197669 Chimerican
Chimerican's picture

ZH has always been populated with whiney bitchez. Everyone else is stupid.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 18:05 | 2198746 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

on the weekend it's beer

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 06:17 | 2197335 Bringin It
Bringin It's picture

Re. Conjuring me w/ your last words - Bring it.

I bring only applause for your accurate assesment FB.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 10:00 | 2197518 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

And now we are presenting "Act of Valor" for your propaganda purposes...

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:40 | 2197654 prole
prole's picture

"Washington, Jefferson, Lincoln, Eisenhower...all tossing in their graves. No other conclusion. I will challenge anyone, anywhere to debate this. Bring it."

Why would Lincoln be tossing in his grave? Would not the blood soaked murderer of 600,000 Americans be rejoicing at the prospect of aggression invasion conquest and death?

Lincoln didn't even need foriegn wars to justify his killing, he just got right to killing Americans.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 12:50 | 2197865 Seer
Seer's picture

Sorry, but civil wars are different than nation-to-nation wars.  And, I highly doubt that it's in anyone's interest as a leader to pile up bodies knowing that that only tends to create long-lasting undercurrents: just as the US civil war produced- creates an entire sect of folks lashing out at the very people that their race was enslaving.

Disclaimer: I'm NOT a statist, not an apologist for governments or governments' actions.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 17:22 | 2198667 lakecity55
lakecity55's picture

Lincoln, like Grant, knew the only way to force an end was to kill more confederates than could be replaced. Sherman was told to devastate the Southern infrastructure unless, as Lincoln and Grant feared, the entire nation would drown in even greater bloodshed.

My ancestors should have taken a trip "up north" before they fired one shot in Charleston and gazed upon the endless Factories and teeming millions of yankees.

Hubris gets you destroyed, even if your cause (less government) is correct.

Sun, 02/26/2012 - 11:47 | 2197674 Shibumi2
Shibumi2's picture

The facts presented fail to support your conclusion.

You state, correctly, that the media promotes war and America's military force has been subverted for the looting of the wealth of other countries resources. Stipulated and agreed!

However, you presume, without evidence, that AMERICANS control the media and further, that AMERICANS are the beneficiaries of the plunders of war. Not in evidence, particularly during the current economic slump, whereby a majority of AMERICANS are living in drastically deteriorating conditions or outright squalor.

I know many Americans and find that most of them now understand the government has been taken over by firces unknown for motives unknown. Most Americans want a return of military force for defensive uses only and want to disengage from international geopolitics and preemptive military strike doctrines. Reference the rise of Ron Paul despite the efforts of the very same media group.

Therefore, it is incorrect to say that America is an evil empire, but may be correct to say that America has become occupied by external forces who have seized control. I argue the citizens of IRAQ bear no responsibility for the decisions made by the CURRENT IRAQ REGIME, since the current IRAQ REGIME is not representative of their wants and desires, and the IRAQ citizizens played no part in the installation of these minders. In the same way, AMERICA has fallen and lost control of its media, banking, military, economy, money supply, congress and almost every other thing of value. Stealthily, and during the night when Americans were asleep with dreams of freedom and plenty swirling in their heads.

Americans may be the dumbest humans ever (oh yes, don't forget the usurpation of the educational system), but evil? I don't think you have made your case. To say America is an evil empire is simplistic since the operators of evil do so on a global basis and the geographic national representations are all but pieces on a chess board.

 

Greatest Generation Indeed!

 

 

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