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Physical Silver Surges To Record 30% Premium Over Spot, In Backwardation
One of the main reasons why we have been not so focused on paper representations of real currencies (i.e., gold and silver) is that ever since the MF Global debacle, in which it became all too clear that if physical gold can be "hypothecated" via conflicting ownership, then there is no way that paper versions of precious metals are viable and indeed credible. After all, the only real owner at the end of the day is the certificate holder, which as we have explained before, is none other than DTCC's Cede & Co. Good luck collecting when the daisy chain of counterparties starts falling. Which leaves physical. And for a good sense of what the "real" price of the metal is, not one determined by institutions whose interest it is to preserve the hegemony of paper, one can either try to procure gold and silver at a retail merchant, or one can look to the premium of a dedicated physical ETF over spot. Such as Eric Sprott's PSLV which as of today is trading at an all time high premium of 30%! In other words, someone is willing to pay up to 30% over spot for the right to be closer to the physical metal than merely have a paper claim on a paper claim (pre hyper rehypothecation and what not). Incidentally the last NAV premium over spot record was back in April 2011 just as silver went parabolic and the entire commodity complex experienced the infamous May 1 takedown when it collapsed by $8 dollars in milliseconds on glaringly obvious coordinated intervention. Said otherwise, like back then, so now there is an actual shortage, manifesting itself in the premium. And while last time its was the price plunge which eased supply needs, we are not so sure how one will be able to spin a collapse of the current, far lower paper silver price.
But wait, there's more: As Keith Weiner explains below, silver also happens to be in backwardation. While we have covered the topic before, here is Keith with his explanation of what this means, although for those who like the punchline here it is, as above: shortage.
The Arbitrageur: Silver In Backwardation
March silver has been flirting with backwardation since the end of 2011, and today it has moved more firmly into backwardated territory. This is extremely bullish for silver, and let me explain why.
Backwardation means (and I am oversimplifying a bit here) that a futures contract is cheaper than buying the physical good in the cash market. To understand the meaning of this, the first question is this: Is it possible to warehouse the good? If not, then the futures market is simply the market’s opinion of what the price is likely to be on the contract expiration.
Silver, unlike interest rate futures for example, can be warehoused. This means it is possible to simultaneously buy physical silver in the spot market and sell a future in the futures market. One has no net exposure to the price. One is exposed only to the spread. This is a simple arbitrage. One can “carry” a good (buy spot, sell future).
The possibility of this and other arbitrages in a good that can be warehoused changes the whole structure of the futures market. One cannot look at the price of March silver as a prediction of the March price. Absent a shortage or other anomaly, the March price should be close to the spot price + the cost of carry (interest rate and storage). March silver should be at a slight premium to spot silver. This condition is normal, and it is called “contango“.
But that is not the case for March silver (or Jul 2013 and beyond). Those contracts are priced too low for anyone to make any money carrying silver. Instead, it would be profitable to de-carry silver. See the graph for a picture of the basis (the annualized profit one would make to carry) and the cobasis (the profit to de-carry). The basis is negative and falling; the cobasis is positive and rising.
A de-carry is the inverse of a carry. One simultaneously sells silver, and buys a future against it. Silver (and gold) are unlike all other commodities in that the above-ground inventories are massive, compared to annual mine production. Whereas in wheat, for example, there is a genuine shortage before the harvest. If one wants to buy wheat two weeks prior, one must pay a large premium compared to the first contract settled after the harvest.
In a normal commodity, backwardation means shortage. The backwardation develops because no one has any of the physical good. So they cannot decarry it, and thus the spot-future spread can go deeper and deeper into backwardation.
But in gold and silver it means something else entirely. People have the metal. But for whatever reason(s), they choose not to take this free money. In the silver market right now, trust is in short supply. In the past (think fall 2010 through spring 2011), this has been resolved by sharply rising prices which coax fresh metal out of hiding.
Originally appearing at The Daily Capitalist
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That molehill wasn't preceded by a hundred years of depletion of supply and several thousand years of tradition saying that silver is worth about 1/20th of gold. Nevermind the fact that supply dislocations aren't always of the exact same size. But hey, you've never thought about anything before, so why start now?
Tmosley sits in his pink robe with his best friends and the cicle jerk each other into a tizzy.
Tsmosley "I figured the US military uses 10 gallons diesel barrels a day
Tsmosley wannabee "I called my local gas station and asked if they 10 million barrels. They said no."
Everyone " Shortage! Shortage! 40% over spot is cheap"
And they all jizz on the plastic tony the tiger esso doll
Yes, that is clearly what I do. Nevermind that very few people agree with me (look at the number of junks I got in this thread), and that I was utterly alone in my call for a paper-physical divergence on massively increasing volatility in paper for damn near a year.
But none of that matters. If I can bring just one person through this to become an oligarch, I will have gained a valuable ideological ally who can help me to change the world for the better.
Opulence, I will has it.
But, are there industrial users that at even 10x current price, would that drive up the unit price of their product where it would cause significant downturn in sales? And some industries will go with alternates where applicable, copper is nearly as good a conductor.
fuckin people would start using gold too.
But, don't confuse idiot pumpers like mosely-claven with facts; he's not about the facts. He's about making wild-assed predictions that don't come true but that a lot of gullible lemmings want to hear.
You could try it, but you would have to take your whole assembly line offline for six months while you redesign your product and modify the line. This would put most people out of business. Better to pay $10 for the part that used to cost $0.02.
you motherfucking idiot...industrial consumers DO NOT BUY FROM COMEX, THEY BUY REAL SUPPLY FROM MINERS.
What is it going to take to get through to you MORONS?
The MINTS BUY FROM MINERS. EVERYONE BUYS FROM MINERS. Do you GET THAT YET? Comex is NOT a silver supply for ANYONE; it is a fucking FUTURES EXCHANGE.
Stop your pumper BULLSHIT, you fucking retard; TEN TIMES parity? They mine TEN TIMES as much of this shit as they do gold and that is only that low because silver is a byproduct.
You are so fucking stupid and full of shit it amazes me. Silver at $16000/oz in today's dollars? For a metal that isn't scarce, hasn't peaked, has fucking 15x that of gold in the crust and an order of magnitude more compared to Pd or Pt, but it will somehow spike to 16000 an oz.
And you actually have the gall to act as if you're not a pumper shill. You pathetic, miserable, asshole. STFU before some starry-eyed lemming listens to you and loses everything.
Somewhere, a horny nigger is still waiting for his blowjob Trav .....
So I guess you still have a customer out there then huh? Get to it bitch.
btw, do you think that screaming racist at everyone ENTITLES you to use that type of speech? Like somehow now you're part black because you hate other white people?
The point is, you disingenuous, misrepresenting, utterly disgustingly thrice-shat worm-infested rabies-laden vomit-encrusted booger-eating eugenics-loving Hitler-worshiping collectivist servile lying malicious piece of dogshit, that Comex SETS THE PRICE of silver, even if they do not supply industrial users for most of their supply.
The fact that industrial users do not run to the COMEX for their silver does not mean JACK SHIT in regards to the ultimate determination of the price of silver, which is the REAL topic being discussed here, and you know it, but in your spittle-flecked rage to attack tmosley, who has bested you in debate after debate, your blind, burning hatred causes your syphilis-addled brain to seize up, resulting in your fingers typing bullshit comments one after the other in pathetic, downward-spiraling intellectual nosedive.
Please, just kill yourself already. I'll even help you if you want to to --- it'd be fun.
mosely-claven couldn't best a fire hydrant. No matter how many times you suck his cock here, you fuckin hooker, you can't change facts. Every single prediction he has made has blown up in his face. He has lost a TON of people a LOT of money from his shameless pumping of a silver bubble, AND YOU HELPED HIM.
Comex doesn't SET the price of silver, producers and sellers do using Comex to hedge as a cash-settlement mechanism.
REGARDLESS of the wet dreams of mentally deranged sick pumper shill motherfuckers like YOU and your ZH love interest.
I know, moron, silver going to "DA MOONZ" is the ONLY WAY you or he will EVER be rich, EVER be "respected," EVER be somebody, instead of a bum which is what you are, let's face it.
The thing is that even if silver did go to $16000/oz (HAHAHAHA) you STILL will not be respected. You'll both still be the piece of shit bellycrawling bitches that you are now.
What's that?
I can't understand you with that thick black cock in your mouth.
You just, once again, prove yourself to be NOTHING but a raging, hate-filled, disingenuous piece of filth. EVERYTHING you just said is either a gross misrepresentation or an outright lie (mostly the latter), and I am glad you make such hysterical, wildly untruthful posts, to prove to the readership here just exactly what a malicious, lying, disgusting troll you are.
Again, kill yourself. Now.
When I saw the title of this article, and 427 comments, I laughed. I thought, oh fuck, this is going to be great, with Trav, Tmo, and akak at each other's throat. I made a pot of coffee, struck a match, and settled in to read the comments, didn't even read the article. This, so far, has been the best laugh I've had in days. And I'm not even halfway through the comments. Thanks fellas, you haven't disappointed me.
Ha, if my wife wouldn't bitch at me all night I would light a cigar in the house and keep reading.. PW dat's me..
Who needs TV when you can read the comments under any Silver/Gold thread on ZH?
Silver and its theories seem to bring out the best in people.
This n00b love fight club. Bitchez?
that Comex SETS THE PRICE of silver....
No, it doesn't.
That's such an elementary error that it calls into question virtually ANYTHING else you could possible contribute to this subject.
Reminds me of you claim that "deflation" is a myth.... that it doesn't really exist.
*LOL*
Again, the silver community is INFAMOUS for their stupidity. Biggest group of PARANOID RETARDS, ever.
I see, so the spot price, which is generated on the COMEX, has nothing to do with the price?
And how, EXACTLY, did you arrive at that conclusion?
"And how, EXACTLY, did you arrive at that conclusion?"
Silver wheaton was using $5 to buy silver offtakes when silver was $20
You sound just like red neck repugnicant/Texas gunslinger/libertarians for prosperity.
That's becuase he was those names as well.
Uh-huh. Yet the COMEX continues to make deliveries pretty much every day.
Come on, idiot, you might as well tell me that water flows uphill.
I mean, never mind that I specifically said that that would be a level that might be seen in a BLOW OFF TOP. Such a level might be in place for a day or two, and levels half that might be in place for a week. Don't fucking learn to read or use any sort of internal mental processing to digest a message or anything. Just say the first shit that pops into your little pea brain because you scored high on some joke internet IQ test.
Retail purchases.
Simply put, you can buy a contract at spot, but if you go to a coin shop, or order physical for immediate delivery online, you will be paying a premium. There are a handful of reputable dealers that will sell with a lower spread, presumably making their $$$ in volume, but if you look at smaller quantities, people will bid up coins to a premium well above the stated price.
Right now, with ETFs in the state they're in, the best method for fair price discovery I am aware of is ebay. Say what you like about the assorted permiums and other issues people have with the site, it is a pretty democratic method for figuring out what the market will bear, and as far as I can see right now, the trend is for Eagles to go for $40-$45 an ounce. There are bargains, of course- but as far as the average goes, the premium is easy enough to see.
Apmex also often purchases silver for x$ over spot. They're expensive to buy from, but seem to have a decent thing going if you need to sell.
+ 1
eBay is the closest I have found to a site where you can data that lets you compare "paper gold" price vs. premiums that eBay sellers want. Note that the below is for Gold and Silver Eagles, so the premiums will be a little higher.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhnHmH-02CQIdG5GRXpkZ3RrZTdaeGdabElJYjVIVXc&hl=en_US#gid=0
The widget itself is at 24hgold.com (look for the widget at the bottom of their Home Page).
DoChen
I think I have brought this up before.
The eBay prices have the fees(shippping/commissions/handling) built into them,they and PayPal get you coming and going.
Ebay charges 15% for sales to sellers............
There (IMHO) is no correlation to the real markets, and eBay's at all.
Or, maybe I am missing your point???
That is true, but somewhat irrelevant.
The reasoning behind using ebay as a gage for small-scale retail pricing is that the price you see on any given auction is the price that "x" number of buyers is willing to pay in USD for "x" oz of silver or gold. The premiums don't matter much to me, as they are paid on the seller side.
When you buy on ebay, you bid a dollar amount- if you win, that's what you pay, not that price plus an ebay markup. It's not a stretch to say that if an auction for one ASE ends at $40 with 30 bids, and there are a dozen others with similar ending bids, that the "going rate" for physical silver in the form of ASEs is at or around $40/oz. I use Paypal, and they don't charge any extra for the transaction either- they do charge, but on my business account with them, the charge only comes in when I am accepting payment. I consider that a fair fee compared to the carrying fee for accepting major credit cards for the intermittant transactions I make online- the only other option is to lose bids to those who can accept credit cards, and do not delay shipments to wait for money orders or personal checks. (I occasionally make small runs of custom products when there appears to be a niche for them, mostly furniture and occasionally custom tooling for hobby shops.) It's just the price of doing business online, and it's often offset by the absence of sales tax.
I'll point out once again that I am only interested and involved in the small-scale retail silver market. There are plenty of multi-million dollar deals around that I am not participating in, and could care less about- whether those folks are paying huge premiums or getting a bulk discount is not my concern.
If the 15% is correct, then I've been buying from people who are willing to accept less than spot for their silver, and that's fine with me. For my part, I'll jump on a 10-11% physical premium, but wait for a better deal if it goes above that- and I also have an account with Gainesville and a relationship with a couple of coin dealers. What I found is that ebay usually has more options, for a better price. I let other people fight over the 30%+ auctions, but that doesn't mean that they aren't relatively common. That razor cuts both ways, and that is what sets price- you can think that the premium payers are idiots all day long, but that is what makes the price rise. If everyone sits and waits for optimal deals, the markets will remain flat or drop.
For all the talk that silver investors are starry-eyed idiots, I'm not buying it. Look at the whole picture here. It's a relatively sensible hedging strategy that relies on a metal that has a few thousand years of history, and most people haven't even considered it. By way of comparison, I see countless examples of half-wits that will wait in front of an AT&T dealership for hours or days to buy a new iPhone, only to turn around and do it again a few months later to get another with the same OS, hardware and features because it is a different color. What do you think the "premium" (read: markup) is on that behavior?
Silver bugs are sober, responsible people by any metric in the f'ed up world we live in.
" 1000oz silver bars "
Maybe because most regimes ( e.g. Germany ) charge 20% VAT on buying , and as a private person, you cannot charge (get back) the 20% on selling.
Coins are VAT'd at 7% in Germany for example; Gold bars/coins 0% .
Interesting read on possible silver high prices...
http://goldandsilverlinings.com/?p=1803
That doesn't apply to American companies, whose inventories are the ones being discussed at the moment.
If they're exported out of the EU you can get a VAT refund. The VAT in Switzerland is less, 7% as I recall. ZKB will allegedly exchange shares in their ETFs for 1,000 oz bars unless you're an American.
[edit] Tulving has 1,000 oz bars at spot + 29 cents right now.
its 8% but inly for physical delivery not buying the ZKB or JB product
I think Germany charges a VAT on the shit you take!!!
But then that is why they are the last ones standing...no?
Here's the link to the chart for silver Registered in the COMEX vault, http://www.24hgold.com/english/interactive_chart.aspx?title=COMEX%20WARE...
It's actually been rising for the last few months.
The folks over at the SilverDoctors blog have been reporting numerous irregularities in the COMEX vault reporting. On or about Dec 23 (hey, everyone is paying attention right before Christmas Eve, right?) HSBC suddenly had 1.2 million ounces of silver adjusted into existence (there was no corresponding deposit to account for it). I've been tracking these types of reports for a little while now.
It's dangerous to assume the Comex published numbers are real.
Harvey disects them every night. Even he now says the COMEX is 100% fraud.
http://harveyorgan.blogspot.com
???
Apmex has 100oz RCM bars for 6.5% over spot. Tulving has them for 3% over spot. Both sites show them in stock. It strikes me that this is a really bad time to buy PSLV.
It is, for those who have unemcumbered cash that can be used to make a purchase of a physical object. Likely most of the people buying PSLV do so because their money is locked in retirement accounts, and they can't get it out without paying penalties, taxes, and losing employer contributions. I would buy PSLV all day if I had a 100% matched retirement account.
tmosley: "people buying PSLV do so because their money is locked in retirement accounts"
I think tmosley is right about this. In the paper realm, Sprott and Central Fund are the next best thing when there is no alternative to physical. What about trusts? Seems reasonable they would favor PSLV and CEF.
Who wouldn't? But seriously, who is it you think gets 100% match from their employer? Maybe 1%ers, but the rest of us plebes are lucky to get a 5% match. Let me know who is offering 100% match though because I for one am certainly willing to change positions!
Ten years ago, something like PSLV in a retirement account would have made sense. However, given the interesting things that have happened to all or part of retirement accounts in the past year in Ireland, Hungary, France, and Argentina (yet again), I don't view them as a safe long-term haven anymore.
Couple that with testimony from the likes of Teresa Ghilarducci and a ZH story a while back about the Treasury's Borrowing Advisory committee (http://www.treasury.gov/press-center/press-releases/Documents/TBAC%20Discussion%20Charts%20Merged%202.2011.pdf - couldn't find the ZH link) discussing that US retail holdings of Fed gov't debt were much lower than in many other countries, and how to increase those holding rates. Does this sound familiar to Argentina stuffing the banks and other institutions with gov't debt as foreign buyers declined? A gov't scrounging for change among the sofa cushions and seeing $17 trillion in US retirement/pension accounts is not a comforting thing. The spouse and I have discussed pulling some retirement money out for the purchase of hard assets, even with the penalties and tax hit. 60 - 70% or so of something may be better than 40%, 20% or 0%, depending on how things go.
Bix Wier & a few others are calling for a March crash.
Heard it all before, but maybe different with an Iran attack or Greek default, etc...
Time will tell, meantime I stack every month.
@ bern
I too am exploring these kinds of issues. What I am looking at now is the premiums of physical Gold and Silver Eagles (for sale on eBay) vs. the spot price (paper gold). This widget showing these premiums is at 24hgold.com, at the bottom of their Home Page
Typically, the premium for AGEs is some 5.5% - 8.5%. They are higher now. And the premium for Silver Eagles is MUCH higher. Go take a look at the below link:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhnHmH-02CQIdG5GRXpkZ3RrZTdaeGdabElJYjVIVXc&hl=en_US#gid=0
I discuss this kind of stuff at my blog. If anyone is interested in the link, please gmail me at my name and promise you will behave.
ebay is a joke when there are a million dealers out there selling for far less than ebay prices
The widget IS an imperfect tracker, correct, but it is the only data that is easy to get. I do not have to make any calls. It does track a segment of small retail buyers and sellers. I have only just started this, but it looks like it will provide some interesting trands through time.
Keep watching! I will post this from time to time in the future.
I like to use it as an indicator of retail premium that the marginal small buyers are willing to pay (kind of a Joe Sixpack "fear factor"). While they may not all be financial geniuses, it does tell you where their priorities are. Also, since it this market is distributed over the net, instead of centralized at the Crimex, I feel it is currently more accurate as a method of price discovery.
There was a wonderful time a few years back during which sale price plus shipping was less than spot.
I don't get it. The premiums here in Oz have never changed. People are weird though. That dragon coin pictured here a few days ago is selling for $1650 online at the perth mint, yet I saw someone bought one on ebay yesterday for $1980. Are people really that stupid? Makes me wish I have enough cash to buy 100 and offload them on ebay.
The Perth Mint has had a reputation for very long waits in the past.
I'm going with numismatic value on that one. Though you could be right, it could be stupidity. If you look at the Chinese Pandas, those things fly way out range quick for no real reason. Perth makes some nice looking coins, but the markup is stupid here in the US.
Imperfect?
Is this how you respond to customers when they show you a bearing that is cracked in half? Dude, we just established that this "data" even if it is the ONLY data you can easily get, isn't worth a shit, ok?
Rather than defend a stupid point, it is really more respect-earning if you concede it. Seriously.
Last time I sold a 100oz Ag bar on the 'bay (or ebola as some German bullion dealers call it) I got a delivery receipt from Fedex but buyer said there was no silver bar inside. So Paypal clawed the $3100 out of my account but my insurance company won't cover it. For the criminally inclined, this is the cheapest way to buy Ag. As a seller there is no price that makes sense when Paypal can claw back.
Use Escrow. Or don't sell on eBay.
go to the seller's house with a gun? re-claw the $3100?
I really wish you would actually do something like this. I really do.
But do it in a state that still uses the electric chair, if you can find one.
Maybe premiums are up because dealers are managing inventory flows in a downdraft. Dunno.
Seems to me that significant tightness in spot silver would turn up in COMEX prices, cartel capers notwithstanding.
Divergence should be arbed away, unless MF has entirely spooked participants willing to take delivery. I guess I never bought the idea that the Morgue could run COMEX down to a buck while the cash rose to $100, as radicals contend.
from tulving.com:
"SEALED 2012 Silver Eagle Boxes At $2.69 Over Spot-IN STOCK!!"
"2012 Sealed Silver Maple Boxes At $1.99 Over Spot!! With Free Overnight Shipping!!"
"Buy-Sell On Silver Bullion-Over 300,000 Oz IN STOCK."
One more small detail. All these PM selling sites have different spot prices determined by them not the actual spot price of the moment you buy.
I pointed that out to the blonde at Apmex and she mumbled something. Granted it was not a big difference, nonetheless, when we discuss premiums over spot, we may need to freeze a moment and check the spot price diffrentials in three different PM sellers against the real spot. If you are buying a few oz's does not matter, but 20 or more make a difference.
BTW: Ebay pricing is great for sellers looking for marks. Stay out of it or just use it to sell small number of coins. One more detail. Paypall will not disseminate more than $500/month to the seller. You must go through the commercial seller routine and report income.
Tulving uses Kitco "ask" for both buy and sell, and so does my local coin shop.
Links to on-line sellers in Germany (the best ones in Europe, only 7% VAT there on silver with a face value, against 19-21% in the rest of Europe) on the top right of my site:
argentofisico.blogspot.com
Their selection has definately been shrinking lately and with less than 300 100 oz. bars, those could be sold out by Monday.
completly ot....ron paul is willing to take a bullet to the head for us........ron fucking paul....
I agree. I believe things are too tight in the physical market to have anyone hold it for you. But also, and more importantly, if the SHTF, Sprott has a huge target on his back. Not sure storing physical bullion at the Canadian Mint (is it gov't owned? banker owned? not sure) is a good idea.
Sprott seems trustworthy, but the banking mafia does not.
They have more guns, thugs & bad intent.
Think twice...
For the $200 silver call to come true (given the current gold price) the gold-to-silver ratio would fall to 8. This is a level not seen since the mid-1800s.
Of course the ratio could remain high if gold prices keep rising.
http://seekingalpha.com/article/315972-the-gold-to-silver-ratio-and-200-silver
I don't know who in there right mind would pay 30% more for PSLV. The coin guy just down the street is selling for just a couple of bucks over spot and that's barely evening opening my eyes to look.
TheSilverJournal.com
And sprott goldsilver.com DOESN'T ship! Only stores it... Which doesn't allow you to touch it or evel make a withdrawl when you would go get it yourself.
Sprl is just like slv.
.
Doesn't Sprott keep it in a vault. I know the trust company or whatever could tell him to get screwed.
Does this mean paper silver is on sale? Endless corruption. Hope & Change.
Excuse me? I assume you possess some form of financial qualification that empowers you to give such advise? If not, I think it's reasonable to at least provide a disclaimer stating that this unprofessional investment advice. Not only is this investment recommendation esoteric but it also runs contrary to the opinions of top investment analysts and find managers.
And Jim Cramer too.
BAC is FINE!
Yes MDB. Had you listened to a professional like Dennis Gartman, you would have sold your gold last fall, then be told "Woops. I made an error. Did I say sell? I meant Buy."
LOL
gartman is "NEUTRAL" which means here is the translation he holds physical and sells all his paper,,,,,these fuckers don't miss one fuckin beat,,,,,,what an asshole
"There's a 50-50 chance that the price of gold may go up or down"
~Dennis Gartman
For solid investment advice... Ask Robo Trader... He'll tell you with 100% accuracy what stocks did yesterday...
That fat fucker alchy posterboy-for-pedophilia Gartmann has publicly flipped his position on gold more times than Mitt Zombie has flipped his position on abortion --- and been almost perfectly, 100% WRONG as a result each time. Why anybody takes either one seriously any more is a total mystery to me.
However, there is a 100% chance that Gartman will change his mind in the near future.
That was some funny shit on cnbs the other day.
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000065437
"How can someone have an opinion on everything?" Definitely made me chortle.
Please define "top investment analysts" and provide examples of a few.
Much thanks.
These would be analysts at top tier investment banks, hedge funds and a few select prop firms. Examples would be anyone working at Goldman Sachs and JP Morgan to employees of elite quant funds like DE Shaw and Citadel.
You REALLY mean all the Too Big To Fail, government-connected, corrupt, doomed to collapse, Ponzi schemes/extortion rackets masquerading as investment firms, don't you, MillionDollarAnus?
Shit, I could make money too if I could get zero percent interest rates, but some bonds, sell them back two weeks later for a 3% profit, lend that money out 30-100 times over to consumers, charge them interest, take those profits and load it into stocks where I had inside information, front run everyone else's buy orders, and then suck off the teet of a constant stream of bailouts and the sort.
Acadamia at its best bitchez.
I don't understand why people hate us for our success...signed, Jamie D.
Rob peter to pay paul.....mmmmm....SORE DICK...YOU CANT BEAT IT.
What exactly is a "find manager"? Is that when Krugman manages to find some change in his couch?
He sure has been banking on hope with that spare couch change. And this Silver situation is a godamn mess! Silver should be at very least at $50!
MillionDollarTard.
MonkeyDickTucker
Now, this is a much better example of your work. Factual, without a hint of attitude.
Good jorb!
+1 exactly.
MillionDollarBonus is such a tool.
So Kyle Bass does not qualify?
I don't know Kyle Bass's opinion on this investment recommendation, but I know for a fact that it is a minority view. In fact, in my experience people who expose this view are invariably conspiracy theorists with radical political ideologies of one form or another. I hate to say it, but I find it genuinely difficult to take the precious metals community seriously, however much I try.
don't take any 'wooden' nickles...
I strongly suspect you have never tried very hard.
But if you want to lose money over the medium to long term, guaranteed, then I suggest you continue to go with the consensus view, always. There's nothing like that warm and fuzzy feeling one gets from blindly following the herd.
you are badly out of the form.
LOL
Even better, now you're emoting sarcastic empathy!
Sincere troll, ftw!
" I hate to say it, but I find it genuinely difficult to take the precious metals community seriously, however much I try."
..............................
I find you difficult to take and I am not trying hard...
You remind me of something Matt Taibbi said. He has had the experience, when interviewing some financial experts, of reaching a point where he said to himself "everything this person says totally contradicts everything I thought I knew. Either he is the greatest financial genius in the world or he is bat shit crazy".
He had that experience 2 or 3 years ago with Kyle Bass. Here was this fund manager in Texas telling him Japan was going to do this, the Euro was going to do that, the dollar was going to do something else and generally predicting financial Armageddon. So he asked him, what can an ordinary person do? What would you advise your mother to invest her money in.
Bass replied "gold and guns" and Taibbi thought "OK bat shit crazy".
2 years later everything he predicted came true including the price of gold and Taibbi was back asking what he was investing in now.
The answer, or one of them " I just bought a million dollars worth of nickels" "how do you buy a million dollars worth of nickels""I told the bank I like nickels" ha ha ha ha ha ha ha
Except when I have no alternative, I haven't spent a nickel (or penny even) in years. That's what dimes and quarters are for.
May not do me much good, but my grandson, on the other hand, might be served well by the value of their tangible nature.
You suck at it!!!!
And I find it genuinely difficult to take people seriously who use the word "expose" instead of "espouse."
MDB writes: "I hate to say it, but I find it genuinely difficult to take the precious metals community seriously, however much I try."
Then get off the site, fuckwad.
Dude, you made me spit my soda up through my nose. Warn me next time.
I'm with M$B on this one. From what I have learned on this site, most physical ends up lost at the bottom of some forgetten lake, doesn't seem like a great investment strategy. ETFs, on the other hand, sit safely in computer memory banks, and have almost unlimited upside, as well as providing bankers with the seed capital necessary for creating the next wave of financial innovation.
I mean, who doesn't feel safe knowing that all of their hard-earned money is safely converted into 1s and 0s and watched over by paradigms of virtue and intellect? Just as Prometheus forever bettered mankind by bringing them the knowledge of the mastery of fire, our central planners have improved the quality of life for hundreds of people by teaching the mastery of financial matters. We ignore their advice at our own peril!
Thats top stuff right there..but no red arrows...
don't make them too good or you double wrong foot people...if you catch my drift
It was good enough though that I had to track a few posts to determine intent.
MDB has been out-trolled, "Burr's 2nd Shot" FTW! :>D
I thought ZHers were supposed to be smart - so why all the junks for MDB? Maybe most Americans don't understand sarcasm...
Maybe ZHers are just good at recognizing bad sarcasm.
they're smart according to themselves.
If you ask me, eh...not so much. People here aren't the sharpest tools in the shed even if they are marginally smarter than the American Idol crowd.
Maybe they don't like lies, even if they are put forth as SATIRE.
Top men.
(Trivia Bonus - William Hootkins, who played Major Eaton in Raiders and uttered that line, was also Porkins in Star Wars. He is quite dead.)
+1 for Porkins
Silver leader standing by.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yoy4_h7Pb3M
haha, he was porkins? didnt know that. haha
Which top "find managers," MDB?
You don't pay very close attention do you? Financial qualifications got us in this mess. SILVER BITCHEZ!!!
What's wrong with this milliongarbagetrunk guy, drinked too much diet coke or what? Do your selfe a favor and never comment again
Lame as usual.
retracted (mistook a matter of taste for something else- junked self)
Hmmmm... I was going to ding you for getting out of character by picking a fight, but it looks like you got a few bites. Overall though, I feel it detracts from your persona of being "Conventional Wisdom's White Knight."
In the future, I'd prefer it if you'd stick with what works, otherwise you risk alienating everyone, rendering your sarcasm null and void, instead appearing as just another internet idiot (where you're vastly outnumbered).
Remember, we're all counting on you, M$B.
"do you like gladiator movies?"
Also please define "find managers"
He doesn't even know the difference between advise and advice. We need smarter trolls.
How much did you lose bogus?
And if you choose to follow the advice above, here is a good site to book mark
http://comparegoldprices.com/ for gold and
http://comparesilverprices.com/ for silver
Where's Tulving?
i trust zero hedge like my wife...or
i believe in zero hedge like my whore ex wife..
i really apologize for being completly off topic to silver, but here goes.....
i will make this assumption first...all legitimate zero hedgees or is it hedgies believe we swim in a world of bullshit...
what would happen to the rest of your psyche if you discovered zero hedge was just more bls, or bullshit..see what i did there, i throw this out because zero hedge is the only thing i believe in and ron paul...if like santa i found this to be false i could never extend any trust to anything again...
with that being said i am all in, in believing in the hedge, as in far as they are not trying to fuck me, not whether i agree with what they present...if you would be so kind and go back to top and vote...or not
Its your poor ex-wife i feel sorry for.
She really tried and your jealousy ruined it all.
Your paranoia about her fucking your mates when she was really doing volunteer work at the orphanage.
You blew it. All because you wouldn't take your meds, man.
first off big duke..you couldnt be more off base...for you to scan like 12 million post to find mine would lead me to believe thoust protest to much...so if you cant simply vote up or down, go peak in on your???
Don't listen to me, i readily admit i'm a wind up merchant.
and i shouldn't go to some places.
I....I...I apologise.
Yer ex-wife: Krystal
Yer current wife(?): Lil Cuyler (or is it yer sister?)
Actually, the messenger delivered. Some may have missed the memo. Enjoy the comedy
What way to ring in the new year with another Hitler parody?
"...and you sociopaths call yourself a cartel."
Classic.
Got a few tubes on the way via fedex I bought pre new years..
back street's back bitchez.
My phyzz stack has been experiencing serious inflation this past month.
um....you mean this past week? Silver and gold both sharply lower month over month, in what they will purchase in real economy...
No, I mean that the size of my physical stack has been literally inflating. Because I can't stop buying at these firesale prices.
Nice one!! I like ur style my man ;)
An ounce of silver vapor must be enormous, inflation bitchez.
Well, quit playing with it, then!
Technically speaking, Bernanke is viagra for silver and gold.
My 200 oz just arrived yesterday.
Hate to say this, but technically Ag is still firmly in a downtrend, channel, etc. And if equities break down, as many folks here expect, then silver will very likely get dragged down too......all as a prelude to QE3, when most everything reverses and turns back up.
So as of today, I wouldn't be surprised to see silver fall into the $20-$25 range before QE3 kicks in. But I'm not going to shed any tears over this. On the contrary, I'm stepping up my purchases every $1-$2 down from my last purchase at $27.
Congrats on the 200 oz.
Just got 100 oz in the mail from APMEX. Man do I love getting that heavy box!
Congrat's guy's, keep adding those OZ's.
An equity breakdown will cause another round of Paulson fund redemption & liquidation and take metals along for the ride. In the overall scheme of things it doesn't matter though.
Anyone else sweating it out until March, waiting on their company bonus? March 15th... c'mon baby... and it's straight to the coin shop...
My next one is in April, but we'll see where the price is at then. I spent the last one on silver, but April is where it spiked last year. Might be a half-decent idea to bank a March bonus and buy in early June.
(Bonus money doesn't count for dollar-cost averaging in my strategy, so I speculate with that.)
Called it, bitchez.