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Physical Silver Surges To Record 30% Premium Over Spot, In Backwardation
One of the main reasons why we have been not so focused on paper representations of real currencies (i.e., gold and silver) is that ever since the MF Global debacle, in which it became all too clear that if physical gold can be "hypothecated" via conflicting ownership, then there is no way that paper versions of precious metals are viable and indeed credible. After all, the only real owner at the end of the day is the certificate holder, which as we have explained before, is none other than DTCC's Cede & Co. Good luck collecting when the daisy chain of counterparties starts falling. Which leaves physical. And for a good sense of what the "real" price of the metal is, not one determined by institutions whose interest it is to preserve the hegemony of paper, one can either try to procure gold and silver at a retail merchant, or one can look to the premium of a dedicated physical ETF over spot. Such as Eric Sprott's PSLV which as of today is trading at an all time high premium of 30%! In other words, someone is willing to pay up to 30% over spot for the right to be closer to the physical metal than merely have a paper claim on a paper claim (pre hyper rehypothecation and what not). Incidentally the last NAV premium over spot record was back in April 2011 just as silver went parabolic and the entire commodity complex experienced the infamous May 1 takedown when it collapsed by $8 dollars in milliseconds on glaringly obvious coordinated intervention. Said otherwise, like back then, so now there is an actual shortage, manifesting itself in the premium. And while last time its was the price plunge which eased supply needs, we are not so sure how one will be able to spin a collapse of the current, far lower paper silver price.
But wait, there's more: As Keith Weiner explains below, silver also happens to be in backwardation. While we have covered the topic before, here is Keith with his explanation of what this means, although for those who like the punchline here it is, as above: shortage.
The Arbitrageur: Silver In Backwardation
March silver has been flirting with backwardation since the end of 2011, and today it has moved more firmly into backwardated territory. This is extremely bullish for silver, and let me explain why.
Backwardation means (and I am oversimplifying a bit here) that a futures contract is cheaper than buying the physical good in the cash market. To understand the meaning of this, the first question is this: Is it possible to warehouse the good? If not, then the futures market is simply the market’s opinion of what the price is likely to be on the contract expiration.
Silver, unlike interest rate futures for example, can be warehoused. This means it is possible to simultaneously buy physical silver in the spot market and sell a future in the futures market. One has no net exposure to the price. One is exposed only to the spread. This is a simple arbitrage. One can “carry” a good (buy spot, sell future).
The possibility of this and other arbitrages in a good that can be warehoused changes the whole structure of the futures market. One cannot look at the price of March silver as a prediction of the March price. Absent a shortage or other anomaly, the March price should be close to the spot price + the cost of carry (interest rate and storage). March silver should be at a slight premium to spot silver. This condition is normal, and it is called “contango“.
But that is not the case for March silver (or Jul 2013 and beyond). Those contracts are priced too low for anyone to make any money carrying silver. Instead, it would be profitable to de-carry silver. See the graph for a picture of the basis (the annualized profit one would make to carry) and the cobasis (the profit to de-carry). The basis is negative and falling; the cobasis is positive and rising.
A de-carry is the inverse of a carry. One simultaneously sells silver, and buys a future against it. Silver (and gold) are unlike all other commodities in that the above-ground inventories are massive, compared to annual mine production. Whereas in wheat, for example, there is a genuine shortage before the harvest. If one wants to buy wheat two weeks prior, one must pay a large premium compared to the first contract settled after the harvest.
In a normal commodity, backwardation means shortage. The backwardation develops because no one has any of the physical good. So they cannot decarry it, and thus the spot-future spread can go deeper and deeper into backwardation.
But in gold and silver it means something else entirely. People have the metal. But for whatever reason(s), they choose not to take this free money. In the silver market right now, trust is in short supply. In the past (think fall 2010 through spring 2011), this has been resolved by sharply rising prices which coax fresh metal out of hiding.
Originally appearing at The Daily Capitalist
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<<I'd like to see someone try to explain their way out of this contradiction.>
JPM and MF Global and a lot of very wounded and scared puppies.
Wheres the 30% premium over spot come from? You can buy from Tulving or Provident Metals for much less than that. Ebay perhaps? LOL. I've often wondered who is buying silver on ebay for so much more than they can get it for elsewhere on the net.
Never mind, I glossed over the PSLV chart. But still you can buy physical silver for less than 30% over spot...
It comes from conspiracy nutjobs who bought silver in the 40s
Why anyone would buy PSLV is beyond me...as you say, go to any coin dealer, go to bullionvaultor goldmoney, and they'll sell you all you want
But I'm waiting for sub $24 to start
But I'm waiting for sub $24 to start
I think you'll see a $24 sub at Subway before you get another shot at a Ag maple delivered at that handle.
Lots of money doesn't have that option. Retirement accounts and such. PSLV is a reasonable alternative for those people. I would guess that that is the real reason for this premium. Lots of people are spooked, but aren't yet willing to flee the system totally.
I've been point blank told I'd have to quit my job to cash out of my MPP. So NYSE:SIL, PHYS and PSLV for me until then.
From EXK last report........Realized silver price up 120 per cent to $40.72 per ounce sold. So Endeavour sold their entire last quarters' production to nutjobs?...seems nutjobs have some excess paper.
There probably aren't ten people buying on ebay that could afford Tulving's minimums. Besides, you're talking about a different market. The 30% premium lives in the ETF world, where the marginal buyer may also be the margined buyer (or the self-directed 401k buyer, who has to keep their assets in the system).ok
my thoughts precisely. i was going to post something similar but you said it better than i could have.
eBay / 24hgold PM Premium Widget Tracker:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0AhnHmH-02CQIdG5GRXpkZ3RrZTdaeGdabElJYjVIVXc&hl=en_US#gid=0
Gmail me at my name if interested in my blog. Promise you will behave!
those are some hefty premiums you've chronicled.
I don't understand why, for those that need to keep their money in the system, they don't buy something like SIVR, CEF or GTU that has much lower premiums.
Beam me up...........................
I've often wondered who is buying silver on ebay for so much more than they can get it for elsewhere on the net.
Idiots is who.
My nephew makes 20% on 90% JUNK silver , on every sale..................day in,day out.After fees!!!!!!
not for real money junior
Why would anyone use PSLV when APMEX is actually cheaper!!!! Bullionvault remains the cheapest at 1-2% above spot for allocated silver/gold and Goldmoney still has around 4%. Investing in PSLV is crazy at a 30% premium
Because they are jittery vaginas that want to be able to sell from their Scottrade account as soon as Jim Cramer tells them to.
Has no one ever heard of SIVR? Or is that another paper silver ETF? (It claims to be physical).
Also, is anyone surprised by Sprott wanting to sell another heap of silver into the trust. Easy money if he can source it.
I'd rather go full retard and buy USLV (3x) than PSLV with a 30% premium.
AGQ works too if you don't want to feel the full 3x pain when they beat down the paper price.
That's the problem with leverage, heartless bitch works both ways.
Nonsense, it will be fine
/MFGlobal
The first time I heard someone use the term jittery vaginas was....right now. Sounds like something one should see an OB/GYN for.
Ron Paul FTW!
I don't know why anyone would pay Sprott 30% for a paper claim on his Silver. You can cut out the middle man entirely and get your own physical from Tulving or even APMEX for as little as 3% over spot depending on what product you want. I don't doubt he has the silver in his vaults but that silver resides in Canada and I don't even have enough $ to buy enough of his shares to qualify myself for a redemption come what may so it would all be just paper to me anyway. If TSHTF what good is that going to do me? The reason you buy PM's is to get away from paper. Silver Eagle and Maple sales are at an all time high. They can't keep the coin supply up forever and when they really lose control you'll see these premiums getting huge and that means we are close to another break out. I'm still skeptical at this time.
why is there such a spread bewtween "physical" silver and the commercial silver people tend to invest in like silver eagles / maples?
one word..................................................................size. the worlds silver for all tangible purposes is gone.i gone
OH Yea, like I am going to sell my silver coins...chuckle! You are going to have to pry my AK from my cold dead hands. Than you can talk to my heirs about the silver. BITCHEZ!
Robo pukin up blood.
Good thing I ordered physical at $27/ounce.
something similar is happening with sprott gold, too. today, for example phys is up .35% while spot is down a bit.
So I guess it's not important whether you citizens are afraid of war with iran or not. I guess what's important is they get just as jumpy over gas prices and not entirely knowing if russia or china is going to get froggy and jump in.
If I was russia I'd keep invading and attacking until I reached steve liesman and put his head on a pike as a thank you for 1998.
I'm thinking obama is giving away missile plans to try to coax them out of it. I guess looking at a top secret missile is ample payment for 1998.
Eagle and Maple Leaf coins still being minted at all time quantities. I don't really understand why the price is at the 28 handle. If the price was $75 people would not question it due to the fundementals. I would think if you use a 5 year time frame we will see triple digit silver.
technicals showing silver is EXTREMELY oversold. better get on this train now, cuz its about to leave the station. but keep an ear out for any warnings from Andrew Maguire. JPM will no doubt be manipulating the market as it rises higher
If JPM don't manipulate silver JPM will no longer be
Just so you boys know short GLD big over the weekend.......looking for a down 100 on the spot over the weekend.....now off to the bar....
bullshit. unless you know of a major margin hike in the works there is no way in hell it's dropping 100 from here
"No way"? Not really. Paper PMs, and perhaps the entire universe of futures contracts will pass through $0 before this is all over. Good luck getting delivery at such prices, though.
"Paper PMs?" That's almost as funny as...as...paper money! hahahahaha
+ 1 for a bold prediction.
We'll see.
-1 for bold prediction. Anyone can make a bold, off-the-cuff prediction (and even be right 1 time out of 5). Give me some insight irrespective of what might play out in the next 72 hours.
My two oz.
I always post my trades on ZH, when I make them...others on this site do cut and pasted them..they are there for all to see. I am and as always the AXE.... To this date...25 years of trading, and never a losing year.....Happy trading to all.
Congratulations. But you didn't post a trade, you just made a statement, squid.
The largest fundo for silver is that it is a declining resource; this will become apparent within just a few years after all the missles fly and the US military finds it hard to source any physical AT ANY COST.
Silver is easily replaceable for most of it's indutrial uses.
Physical Silver Surges To Record 30% Premium Over Spot, In Backwardation !
I’m sorry but the Eric Sprot ETF IS NOT physical silver, it is an ETF. Those who own it, own shares in an ETF not silver. Even if it is truly backed by 100% silver it is still a paper asset.
Physical is metal in your hands, that’s how I see it. Those who pay 30% premium for an ETF don’t seem very smart to me.
The backwardation thing could be what the author says it means or it could mean that prices are expected to be lower. The author does not give a convincing argument to dismiss this possibility. For example if we get more bad shit from Europe, hard landing in China and a much stronger USD you bet we gonna get lower silver and Gold prices. May be that’s what the backwardation is anticipating.
Misleading. When did sprott earn the title of being the physical mkt? I can still buy physical at much less premium than 30%. I think someone gives Sprott way too much credit and he is not the physical mkt.
Bottom line, what T-bone is really saying is that it dont mean a thing (i.e. jack shit) if you cant hold it. Period.
Anyone read that WSJ article about Mother Fuckers Global? (MFG)??? the latest and greatest?
The jack-fucks representing MF are withholding certain docs from the CFTC....stupid is what stupid does...So now it's 3 months since the breakdown and no $$.....EVEN IN THE EXTREME FAR OUT CASE THEY DO 'FIND' THE MONEY...The rightful owners wont see a penny....
Like a class-action suit....it goes on for decades and benefits 1 party...the lawyers. That's it.
My heart goes out to those unfortunate people who lost their money...I would back up the truck betting they wont see JACK SHIT of that money....
sad, sad, sad sitch indeed....just surreal. epitome of unbelievable.
Gerald Celente was on Coast to Coast last night; a great two hours of radio.
He was expressing his outrage at MF and the Vampire Squid, and spelling out the unbeleviable connections between GS, Wall Street, and Washington and how utterly corrupt the entire system is.
He had money at MF Global; actually said it was with Lind-Waldock who was bought out by MF Global 2 months before it's collapse.
Remember all the Lind-Waldock commercials on CNBC before they were bought out?
Bet MF Global knew they were going down the shitter and got GS and J.P. Morgue to help them "buy" Lind-Waldock so they had more investor assets to steal.
Surreal, yes.
He'd better be very careful, as it's obvious he's not "in the club."
Need to find the link.
http://www.coasttocoastam.com/show/2012/01/05
p.s. - Mr. Celente mentions ZeroHedge also, H/T Tyler and Crew.
Haven't seen this mentioned here so - ZH readers should check today's Jesse's Cafe Americane site http://jessescrossroadscafe.blogspot.com/ for an excellent 40 minute interview of Ann Barnhardt by Warren Pollock. This is really worth your time.
No offense americanspirit, but not that great an interview upon reflection. Hoped for more. For one thing, Ann Barnhardt is getting a little over the top. Ex: her numbers are off. She tends to exagerate (emphatically states that if the straits of Hormuz close oil goes to $500 a barrel). That's just ONE example.
She didn't know what Glass-Steagal was, and in the end, not much insight from either her or the interviewer as to what the future looks like other than we can't trust the system and we may get a bank holioday. Ann is enjoying her 15 minutes, and whiles she has it I hope that she wil start sounding more credible. We need articulate outspoken voices like hers right now. But get it together Ann.
Just my opinion. Take it for what it is worth. ;>
Hi Pakled - no offense taken. I agree she is getting a little over the top but I can't imagine anyone who has seen what she has seen from her perspective not getting more than a little over the top. Plus I love chicks (her word) who understand the value of guns and don't mind knowing how to use them. Doubles the household firepower, so to speak. And I do think the insight into the form that a global bank holiday might take, based on what TPTB have learned from the MF Global heist, is worth considering. All in all though I agree - people tend not to listen carefully to people who shout and/or are very angry. Mockery and ridicule are far more effective weapons. She has the info and the spirit - all she needs is a change of style.
Well said. There was that point about MF Global being used as a template to set a precedent for further raiding of customers accounts.
Your best point is with regard to women and guns. Noting sexier than a pretty girl in a bikini firing a machine gun. Not sure why... but it's sexy. :>
Link pimping is serious bidness.
Nope , this is a jam job by JPM. Sprott tripled the silver price from 17 to 50 when he floated PSLV.Its dollar value was 580 million and silver went from 17 to 50 in 5 months. The drive by and subsequent raids were pure retaliation. Desperation..
Try and contemplate what would happen to the silver price if he now came with a billion five physical ....its ciao CME and ciao JPM, depending on how much of their criminal short position they have managed to unwind.
One way to prevent this billion five issue getting done, is jam it to such a ridiculous premium, that no self respecting size buyer could possibly participate. Additionaly Sprott is on record as saying he is not going to crush the premium at the expense of existing holders,
Would JPM lose 200 million to save 20 billion? By ramping and holding PSLV at a deal killing premium. It has a perverse logic to it. It renders the billion five issue moot, it cannot be done, not in size.
Strange things done in the midnight sun.
Well, this makes the most sense of all the comments. Most excellent devious thought process.
I concur - excellent reasoning. Balkan background perhaps?
scottish and irish................. emphasis on the irish;)
Excellent post as always my man vamoose1.
thx bop. Have you ever seen a board light up like this? Its incredible. its bullish, such passion, talk about lighting a fire.I have gold but when i hold a 1600 dollar coin beside a 29 dollar one, i quaver a bit..... it seems like a lot for a little that 1600.
But silver, now thats different. Pretty much everyone has 29 bucks, maybe in pennies like trav666. Confession, I am confused at that premium in PSLV, I am guessing like all of us, why is it suddenly accelerating??
Not long ago it was 17 percent, but 30????? Holy christ. Its a bloody mystery, but the lift from the 17 percent PSLV premium to this 30 percent closely coincides with the reopening of PSLV to a latent additional billion five physical.
That premium has jumped 70 percent since early December. So its very tempting to link up the 2 events.
I know this, things are clearly happening, steam in the kettle. Perhaps this is the paper/ physical bifurcation we have been waiting for.
Jesus its interesting.
It's accelerating due to the mass exodus taking place at the SLV. Sprott recently filed a prospectus with the SEC to offer 1.5 billion more units of PSLV....which accounts for his bullish views on where silver is headed. I suspect he's going to be there...to offer another way to get exposed to rising PM prices...should a real shortage unfold and people are looking to deploy capital.
People are voting by their actions....and trusting an alternative ETF competitor with 3rd party vault storage in Canada....and getting away from the "Morgue"....which bought up the Henry Bath warehouses in 2010 from RBS Siempra.
People are losing faith in the claims that the SLV has the silver to back the larger investors(50k baskets).
Word on the street is the SWF proxies for China are removing silver from the SLV as well...putting more pressure on the Comex, since it's rumored they are closing out "cash settlements" with shares in the SLV...which feeds into the cycle of people wanting to sell shares and get into something else...or just buy physical.
Whatever you wanna say about the PSLV...it seems to be offering something different, or else they would not be garnering a premium. I would suspect there's alot of big players out there that are moving from one...to the other. Storage is often a problem for them....and silver in large quantities is quite bulky. Take a read of the SLV prospectus and it's a scary deal for sure as to how all the Trusts' players can weasel out of any responsibility....it's quite dodgy, and people are figuring out how dodgy it is. They want out before a false flag comes around and JPM claims the warehouses have been "robbed" or some such lame excuse. Really...the writing is on the wall...and the criminals have been exposed...people are not interested in hanging out with parasites when the theatre gets burned down.
Sorry...this is probably not well written...just throwing thoughts and ideas at you in between trips to the ice-box
on the contrary, its a super post. And me too, just thinking out loud as well , Perhaps its a combination of all these things, but there seems to be a relentless message,...... that being that if it were easy to acquire Phys silver, in SERIOUS non retail size then nobody is paying any 30 percent over spot who is in possession of their senses. So clearly its not easy.In my opinion its flat unavailable.
The system is heaving and groaning, Sprotts PSLV bars arrived 3 months late still warm from the refiner.They postdated the issue.This cannot persist, something breaks, probably imminently.
Agreed....the system will be tested...as it's rumored to be turning into a ghost town.
I imagine Sprott is channeling Sun Tzu....and offering another venue to help along the Comex with it's march to irrelevence. Since the "long" specs were unsuccessful in their run (due to being lovers of fiat)....it gave back tactical advantage to the bullion banks....and with a little help from their margin hiking friends at the CME....bashed theie undercapitalized opponents.
I haven't read up yet on the PSLV....but I almost wonder if they are also catering to the Ex-Pat populations that need a safe venue to gain exposure to the latter stages of this PM Bull....and don't have the ability to take delivery of large quantities. If the premium is at 30%....it seems to be a definitive line in the sand drawn...where he can seperate the big and small players...and still channel Sun Tzu....with the smaller players passing on the option and going out and buying physical....and the larger players taking units of the PSLV. My guess is Sprott really does want people to get physical, but also wants to steal market share from the SLV....which is thought to be tied at the hip to the Comex and LBMA warehouses.
I think the most standing for delivery on the Comex casino, as of late, was about 21 million ounces worth...or about 2/3rds of the "total registered". I think this was enough to bust the Comex....problem was that half of those standing were interested in a "cash premium settlement"....and not burning down the casino. They let JPM off the hook...due to their own fiat greed.
I feel Sprott viewed this as a flaw that cannot be fixed....with too large a portion of casino gamblers that are in love with the casino....and perfectly fine with maintaining the status quo of the construct as is. I'm sure they were hoping to employ these extortion plots repeatedly against the bullion banks....riding the "Crash JPM" wave...and exacting their cash premium settlements. They were doomed to failure from the start...without a united front. The portion interested in taking physical and busting the Comex....received their "Judas Kiss" from the other "long specs"....that had only the intent to extort a "fiat prize".
So yeah...I think also that the system is groaning....but the "arsenic concoction" is a bit diluted....since the players that were burned seemed to have left the casino and moved onto other playing fields. They squandered their chance.
I'm not bothered...I see it as opportunity for stackers to have a bit more time to get their stacks built up with cheaper silver.
The 70's-80 PM bull saw 2000% rises in the precious....I doubt this one will come and go without at least tabulating an equal price appreciation. Currently we're around 4-500%....I see alot of upside potential in gold and silver....for the patient people.
So they bid Sprott up while they bid silver down? That would be a sure way to loose money and silver share... all the while the little people buy coins cheaper. (U.S. Silver Eagle and Canadian Maple sales are already outpacing domestic mine production.) Silver will get to $100 soon enough. They are just coiling the spring tighter for the inevitable bounce. This just makes it worse so when silver does go past $50 the only people who have the real deal to sell and take profits will be the physical coin and bar holders and they won't sell at that price and then you will see the premiums for physical go sky high. that's when you know a real sqeeze is on. The battle is at the COMEX but the war will be won on the street and people with paper silver will be the colateral damage.
nice job vamoose. I wonder what not crushing the premium means? Is cutting it in half to 15% considered crushing? Would the premium actually go down at all if he brought the billion 5? Wouldn't it depend on what the inventory build would do to the scarcity of an already tight market? Might acutally increase the premium. No?
Strange, there are other fully allocated ETFs like ZKB Physical Silver but they don't exhibit the same behavior.
Yeah, its mighty strange. Never saw the likes of it. It does illustrate one glaring thing though. THERE IS NO SILVER IN SIZE ON THIS PLANET, sure you can buy scraps at the dealers, go try and buy 100 million worth, best of luck.
Not sure how relevant this may be, but it is forbidden for Americans to buy into Swiss ETFs such as ZKB, so the US market cannot participate in those particular funds.
I never understood that thing about the US Persons act, there are many investment instruments that are closed to Americans, why is that?
Can't have freedom interfering with revenue collection now, can we?
We hate your freedom
UBS and Credit Suisse. IRS threated to confiscate their money in the U.S. if they didn't fully disclose their American customers which is illegal in Switzerland. Ergo, get rid of the American customers. Extortion is such a nasty word.
Here is the funny part: ZKB actually took over many of these clients, and now they are catching heat from the US. Thing is ZKB is a canton bank, they don't have much in the way of investment banking or any other significant activities in the US, so the US is picking directly on Switzerland directly or through the EU client states.
The reason is ZK Bank is also the market maker for the ETF shares.
and to think i hate paying $2.40 over spot for physical bars
502.11 oz A-Mark Silver Bar .999+ Fine
502.11 oz A-Mark Silver Bar .999+ Fine Only $0.79 per oz over spot!Nice 500 oz (+/-) A-Mark Silver Bars. These are much easier to handle than our 1,000 oz COMEX bar.
odd lots, non standard, try selling it
"One cannot look at the price of March silver as a prediction of the March price"
?????????????
Given the remainder of the paragraph, I'd say that's just poorly written, as it is a prediction of March price plus storage costs. Just not a prediction of price directly.
Available now for only $0.89 over spot!
1 oz Silver Bar 999 Fine Morgan Design Current Spot Price: $28.84 Select A Payment Method: ?Quantity:Bank Wire Pricing 1 - 99 $29.83 100+ $29.73
I want a 2 mill oz at that price and will store it in my garage plus have it delivered and will buy the forklift /crew for when I wish to sell. Plus the guards to protect it and me.
PSLV is a true futures market-that is an anticipation of future prices. A lot of this premium is based on the premise that Sprott's purchase of 1 billion dollars of silver will drive the price higher and that the owners of PSLV can bail out before the new trust units are used to dilute the fund.
maybe SWF's or others needing to deliver/or fill vaults are buying it knowing they can redeem the shares. I do own PSLV, CEF in 401's and have no intension of selling until I can move it out - before confiscation
very very good, if 500 million triples markets, what does the billion five do.............................
Here are few interesting silver charts you should see
SIFO Rates http://i44.tinypic.com/e9zqdj.png
COT Report Silver http://i44.tinypic.com/9puudy.pngMy
I was looking at http://www.321gold.com/cot_silver.html for COT report, seems the manipulators increased their net shorts (total around 20,000 contracts short); but it is at a very low range; I am expecting another Sunday night hit (thanks CFTC) to run stops and get them net long.
i'm not sure why that should matter when the markup on 1000 oz bar is less than 2%:https://online.kitco.com/bullion/completelist_USD.html
because kitco only has 3 of the big boys, thats why, , and lest we forget is operating in bankruptcy in the hands of a receiver.....not this guy, I would not go near Kitco with trav666s money.
I dont think that's a big deal anymore. Kitco got the court order for 2nd extension when they brought their motion and will be out of it soon:
http://www.rsmrichter.com/restructuring/KitcoMetals.aspx
http://www.ic.gc.ca/eic/site/bsf-osb.nsf/eng/br02667.html
Well then, I guess AGQ is a great arbitrage opportunity.
silver must be getting ready to tank big time with articles like this. Just like the beat down started a month or so ago. That
douche from National Inflation Association had some stupid video on here saying the world supply of silver was about to run out.
What a crock of shit! Go to Baja Tijuana. The shit is everywhere. Hawked daily by mexicans hoping to make some
tacco money peddling silver ounces in the form of necklaces or bracelets to So-Cal tourists.
Silver is going to $20 or lower... For physical too. Just watch!
Ok Math Man we heard your call last spring.
He's BAAACKK!!!
I'd like to buy this waccko a tacco.
Yeah but when it does go below 20 Danger Math man and this dude are going to deserve a whole lot of mea culpas. Including mine.
They are already essentially right and their call for a correction has come painfully true already. It just hasn't technically hit 20 but when it does....??
Not to mention AU
Not really. Their won't be much if any silver available for sale when that happens. That price will only reflect the market's judgement of bankruptcy on the CME
Remember, they told people not to buy, and they told people to sell what they had. This is like abandoning lifeboats for the Titanic on the claim that there are more that will be available and you will have a more comfortable ride if you get on one later. This is ludicrous, of course.
No the $20 by summer 2011 call was wrong. It can never be right.
sorry I can't junk you more than once
Wait, you mean I can go to the area that produces more silver than nearly anywhere else on Earth, and find it everywhere? ¡Ay, caramba!
There's no way ASE's will ever go below twenty again. If nothing else, way too many people who missed the first run up will sell their kids if needed in order to grab it all.
How do I know this? Well, obviously I don't, but anecdotally, all of the people I told about silver when it was $7 now wished they hadn't missed the "easy money." Better yet, this time around, they won't consider it an investment, but the cheapest life insurance they can get.
Seems I don't look near as crazy to them as I used to.
enjoy your taco with your proceeds ye of inside knowledge...
All together now, lets pray for wally, forgive him oh lord for he knows not whereof he speaks,
Why is CEF trading at a 0.30% premium, when PSLV is at a 30% premium?
does not add up, CEF does have Gold & silver. Sprott Gold has a premium of 5.54% http://www.sprottphysicalgoldtrust.com/NetAssetValue.aspx
It must be that real deliverable silver in quantity is extremely hard to get
you got it pontiac
With my luck, the answer is tungsten. Their prospectus gives mad props to sound money though, so at least they've pretended to align with my interests.
9 mins.
re: those who don't think that the Sprott fund counts all that much....
1) For the point being made in the article, it is certainly noteworthy that the ETF closest to the metal is carrying such a premium. It's noteworthy, and folds into all the other information particles re the PMs.
2) It is certainly reasonable to draw a line between physical-in-hand, and EVERYTHING else. But at the same time, EVERYTHING else comes in degrees. There is substantial difference between the Sprott fund and, say, an option on a silver futures contract.
3) I personally allocate a % of my silver holdings into goldmoney.com. It ain't "physical" but James Turk has moved heaven and earth to make it the next best thing (allocated holdings in a vault with 3rd party auditing to insure singular ownership -- no musical chairs). I like that my holdings can not only be easily bought, sold, transferred between assest classes on the spot, but I also like that those holdings are outside the US, and that I can get on a plane outbound from the US and pretty much whereever I land I can access my wealth. There is (or was?) even an option to take physical delivery.
Cheers!
uh huh, try getting on a plane back (or anywhere for that matter) with all your metal.
jomama: Who said anything about coming back?
More importantly, I've been wanting to ask you about your handle. Is "jomama" a reference to the Ewoks? We always thought that what George was having them say in their little war yelp cry was a version of "your momma".
LOL
whoa, right on. you're nerdier than i, sir.
the retards junking my $20 call probably bought 20 oz's at $50 in May.
Thinking they were going to buy that Michigan blueberry farm with 20oz's of silver.
What assholes!
Should be praying it rips through the floor and crashes in the basement at $12 an oz. Or go all the way to hell and burn at $8!
Then buy the living crap out of it!
That is what I am doing with oil. not driving until gas gets back to .50 a gallon then watch out smokey! me and the bandit are going to hit the road top speed.
What are you talking about? In 1964 dimes, gas is only 15 cents a gallon.
Time to put the pedal to the metal, Cledus!
the retards junking my $20 call probably bought 20 oz's at $50 in May
Yeah... I was standing at the counter at my local coin dealer, and for those 9 fuckings seconds that the paper price hit $50 I shouted BUY! BUY! to the guy across the counter whilst simultaneously punching in an order at Ampex on my iPhone...
I think I got hosed...
It's easy to remember that day because we were killing Bin Laden with our toes while we were punching in the BUY orders on Ag...
No, you're being junked because there is always at least one designated genius here who's calling for gold/silver to tank.
There have been pricing corrections, too, but none of the predictions have been particularly accurate. So the general view is that you're just a crank.
OT, but for the record
90% of Dutch gold - [612.5 tonnes] - stored abroad.
Volkskrant, Jan. 6, 2012
http://www.volkskrant.nl/vk/nl/2680/Economie/article/detail/3109245/2012...
Google translation, slightly adapted
Ninety percent of Dutch gold reserves is stored abroad, eg in vaults in New York.That, Klaas Knot, the president of De Nederlandsche Bank (DNB) published in Nieuwsuur. "The gold is good where it is, finds Knot.
Canada and Britain have a high share of the [Dutch] gold stock. It was [sent abroad] in the thirties [..]. How much gold in total, is secret.
not safe
According to the American writer Jim Rickards, it is not impossible that the U.S. government's foreign gold takes, as confidence in the dollar drops. The gold in New York would not be one hundred percent secure.
"That scenario is unknown to me," responds Knot in Nieuwsuur. "It would surprise me. We have always had a good relationship with the United States. There are sufficient safeguards. "
important buffer
At a time when the financially less well, the gold reserve is an important buffer. The Dutch Gold expert Willem Middelkoop thinks that the Netherlands should ship back the gold as soon as possible. "Let us take advantage of this knowledge."
How much gold is in the basement of the Frederiksplein DNB in Amsterdam is, until now unknown. Knot: 'It is I believe a weight of 67 tons and the value of some € 3billion. "
ASIDE FROM THIS ARTICLE TOPIC: I want to THANK ZERO-HEDGE, Tyler et. al. who run this wonderful site and wish them a great new year (in this hell hole we call earth). I forgot to do it over the holidays but aside from the back-and-forth between friends that goes on here WTF WOULD WE DO WITHOUT THIS SITE??????
THANKS TYLER AND CO.
Truly. You sure hit a silver mine (ass-backwardadtion or otherwise) here with this site and youre the epitome of cutting edge.....Keep up the great work.
We all do appreciate it.
this article may make the top 10 viewed list of 2012
MMMMK
Physical silver eagles at Golden Eagle coins are selling for about 20% over spot, but that obviously includes their commission. There's no buy price listed on their website for Silver Eagles, but they're only paying about $28ish/oz for silver bars.
Not sure what site you are referring to alpha, but not everyone is at 20%. gainesvillecoins.com is about half that premium on the monster box. just sayin. ;>
Yeah? And when's delivery? 2013 sometime? lol
Lot of confusion on this topic. Fact is, PSLV is a closed end ETF. As such, no new shares can be created and there is no way to arb discrepancies between market price and NAV. That is the only reason for this high premium.
The people who have bought into PSLV evidently do not want to hold physical silver & are getting fleeced paying 30% over NAV. You'd get more 'silver' buying SLV or COMEX futures.
Sprott is a genious at talking his own book & fleecing chumps.
Not precisely, probably the most principled businessman i ever met in 50 years.
What are you, his brother?
If Sprott was principled he'd be telling people they are idiots for buying 'silver' at a 30% premium.
and that of course is why he is not presently doing his issue. also, his company is SELLING phys silver at 32.50 retail as we speak, Look it up, its called Sprott Money. Not his brother.Just observant.
What nobody seems to kapisch to, is the market for a billion dollars worth of silver is a bit more challenging than a few maples or bars.
He IS selling his shares in PSLV at a premium though, a good earner if you have some chumps to sell to.
You are not observant enough.
and that of course is why he is not presently doing his issue. also, his company is SELLING phys silver at 32.50 retail as we speak, Look it up, its called Sprott Money. Not his brother.Just observant.
What nobody seems to kapisch to, is the market for a billion dollars worth of silver is a bit more challenging than a few maples or bars.
you evidently know jack shit. pslv was re opened for an additional billion five in physical on dec1. the one year hold on it expired dec 1.
WTF is zerohedge talking about? My dealer just quoted me $3 over spot. I love this site but for the love of god this type of nonsense hurts your credibility.
...did you read the article?
The people who are buying that fund are suckers, present company "Included." Why not just call Apmex and get the shiny stuff for 5-10% over spot.
The quickest way to redistrubute wealth? Bash the living shit out of physical gold and silver prices.
If the prices go to $10 or less for silver and $300 or less for gold.
It's Mardis Gras! Real deblooms for the peasants. This will be the last chance before currency devaluation.
anyone who owns paper silver and gold deserve neither
Agreed. And any "financial advisors" out there who don't recommend holding physical bullion need to be shown the exit door.
I hear these people frequently.
Real silver is flying off the shelves like hot cakes though.
The US Mint reported 3.2 MILLION SILVER EAGLES Sold in the first business day of 2012!!
That's more than the COMBINED sales totals of November and December!! Looks like the mint just waited to report the 2nd half of December's sales to keep the 2011 numbers just under 40 million ounces.
http://silverdoctors.blogspot.com/2012/01/us-mint-sells-32-million-silver-eagles.html
500% and up for some of the collector 2012 Dragon collector pieces I notice...thise with very limited printing or whatever you call what they do with coins. After all, there are over 1,300,000,000 Chinese in China alone....mmmmm
Come on Tyler, cross check your facts:
1oz Buffalo silver rounds, bankwire $29.90 in stock
10 silver bar ntr, bankwire $296.00 also in stock at Gainsville Coins
Backing up my car!
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I can't believe TMos still goes around and around with all the dimwits on here. Dude needs to put a serious premium on his time. What a fuggin waste.
Looks like 30 tons of silver just left the SLV
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2012-01-06/ishares-silver-trust-holdings-d...
actually 85tons...look at Jan 4-5... HOLY FK
I held PSLV until early December after discovering that investors can only demand physical delivery if you have the equivalent # of units that equate to 10,000 or more ounces.
My concern was that Sprott hasn't considered any mechanism to deliver physical silver to holders of PSLV of less that 10,000 ounces if the the paper market were to go "no bid". In addition, you would lose the premium over NAV.
I sold all PSLV and bought American Eagles from Tulving. Buyer beware! I'll have more on my experience with Tulving later. Suffice to say, I would not want to get caught in any position where Tulving either owes you bullion or money if/when the SHTF.
Not sure if your worry is "what happens if something bad happens before they ship", or something else. If that's your worry with Tulving (or anyone else), I suggest you purchase from APMEX, and only purchase what they have in stock and ready to ship. That way the time window for a disaster to happen is only 1 day (from when they receive your wire to when they ship). But maybe your concern is something else.
It took them 19 days after my wire arrived to ship ASE's that had "in stock" and that was only after Hannes told me to "sue him" when I inquired about the status of my order. I've placed multiple 6 figure orders with Tulving, but this was the last.
Max Cynical
Max, he does not give a shit about any customer, and has a BBB rating of "F".
Need we know more?.
His gal Karen told me it is due to a limit of their insurance policy on pounds of PMs shipped per day. Gold orders jump the queue, while silver orders are scheduled for whenever the next sufficiently large slot arrives. On one occasion I had two orders in process which shipped way out of sequence, because smaller orders can sometimes ship before a larger order even if the large order was placed first.
Hannes is not one for chit-chat, he just takes your order and you're supposed to STFU and be patient. I don't like it but nobody beats their prices and I've never had a real dispute with them. Just frustration on a few occasions wondering when my shit will ship... and eventually it does.
If anybody could match his price without being a dick they would win a lot of customers... maybe there's a business opportunity for you.