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Pictures From A Greek Soup Kitchen

Tyler Durden's picture


While we mock and ridicule the corrupt and often times purposefully obtuse Greek politicians, we often ignore the human cost in the equation (and so does the rest of the world). Unfortunately this is becoming an ever greater issue for a country that is rapidly devolving to sub-3rd world status. Because while we have previously discussed the miserable conditions for a country where ever more people are sliding out of the middle class and into poverty status, in reality it is far worse. Spiegel has profiled the new Misery in Athens where "aid workers and soup kitchens in Athens are struggling to provide for the city's "new poor." Since the economic crisis has taken hold, poverty has taken hold among Greece's middle class. And suicide rates have nearly doubled." Just like in the US, those in misery are growing exponentially, but the last thing anyone needs is a reminder of their existence. Yet perhaps they should, because when the Bastille moment hits, the spark to overthrow tyranny, especially that masking under the guise of democracy, will come precisely from the slums of the impoverished and disenfranchised, from those who have nothing left to lose. In Greece, with 28% of the population living "at risk of poverty or social exclusion" this moment may arrive any second.

Spiegel's report from an Athens soup kitchen must be read by all who think things like these no longer exist in modern EU countries:

If this crisis has reached Piraeus, then it's done a good job of hiding itself. Even on this cold February night, the luxury cars are lined up outside the chic, waterfront fish restaurants in this port suburb of Athens. But Leonidas Koutikas knows where to look. Not even 50 meters off the main promenade, around two corners, misery is everywhere. Koutikas finds a family of five living behind a tangled tent that has been attached to the wall of an apartment building.


Koutikas and his colleagues from the aid organization Klimaka are expected. They hand out their care packages here every night. "Each day the list of those in need gets longer," Koutikas says. He speaks from experience. Until recently, the 48-year-old was sleeping on the streets himself.


Athens has always had a problem with homelessness, like any other major city. But the financial and debt crises have led poverty to slowly but surely grow out of control here. In 2011, there were 20 percent more registered homeless people than the year before. Depending on the season, that number can be as high as 25,000. The soup kitchens in Athens are complaining of record demand, with 15 percent more people in need of free meals.


As yet, there are no reliable estimates as to the numbers of the "new poor," because the appropriate studies are lacking. Families can also mitigate the severity of many financial crashes. Those who have lost their jobs or their homes find accommodations with relatives before they ever make it into official statistics. That is especially true of the youngest victims of the financial crisis. "But with the government's many new austerity measures, along with the tax burdens, it is questionable how long the families can continue doing that," says Stamatogiannopoulou.


What is clear is that in 2010, almost 28 percent of Greeks, or 3.03 million people, lived at risk of poverty or social exclusion, according to numbers released last week by the EU statistical agency Eurostat. With the recession only having deepened since, it seems likely that the number of poor Greeks rose in 2011.

where personal tragedies...

Manos, who would prefer not to give his last name, is among the Greek poor. The man, in his mid-50's, is one of dozens of people to come to the Aghia Zoni church on a recent morning. "There are always more," says Father Immanuel, who has organized meals for the poor for 20 years. "Up until one or two years ago, we knew every face here. Today things are much different," he says.


The people in the church's courtyard are waiting for the cook Georgia to finally open the door. She has been at work in her kitchen in the church's basement for hours. When she opens the heavy steel door, there is a great rush to get in. Manos, too, gets noodle soup and bread. As he is eating, he tells a common story of losing his apartment and his job. He was born in lower-middle class Kypseli, an Athens neighborhood, and now he is sleeping in the cold on park benches. "I am a good salesman, honestly," he says. "I can sell anything." He then asks his German guest for his email address, and a few hours later he sends his resume with the request to pass it on. He hasn't given up.

And surging suicides...

The psychologist Eleni Bekiari knows what dark thoughts the crisis and its consequences have brought to Athenians. She staffs Klimaka's telephone number "1018." It is a 24-hour suicide hotline, and its statistics are clear. In 2010, there were about 2,500 calls made to the number. In 2011, there were twice as many. "Most of those who call us are women," she says. "On the other hand, it's usually the men who end up taking their lives."


Greece traditionally has one of the lowest suicide rates in Europe, but the increase has been dramatic. Since the beginning of the crisis, the suicide rate has almost doubled. In 2011, there were almost six suicides per 100,000 citizens. When the callers to the suicide hotline are asked for their reasons for suicidal thoughts, Bekiari says, they often answer with two words: the crisis.

...give the best grade for the 10 year failed experiment at a forced currency union and Keynesian lunacy taken to the nth degree.


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Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:20 | 2158438 economics1996
economics1996's picture

Exit the Euro, devalue the drachma, eliminate the minimum wage, and get back to work pandering to tourist.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:22 | 2158454 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

This is supposed to be bad?  Really?  Have you seen the conditions in Sub-Sahara Africa lately?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:28 | 2158486 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

It's terrible in sub-Saharan Africa for sure. But most people aren't used to seeing a bunch of hungry white people. And there is still a real tinge of racism deep in our blood.

Cheers to Chairman Bernanke for making things more equal...we are all equally nothing in his eyes.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:36 | 2158533 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

Those images are a good day in Detroit.  Welcome to a utopian neoclassical economy!

"None are more hopelessly enslaved than those who falsely believe they are free." - Johann Wolfgang von Goethe. 

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:39 | 2158552 economics1996
economics1996's picture

Detroit is much worse, they kill you over a i phone.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:41 | 2158570 redpill
redpill's picture

How long will this go on?  Days, months, or gyros?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:54 | 2158644 economics1996
economics1996's picture


Depends if the politicians go bankrupt, fire federal government workers, eliminate the minimum wage, and end federal obligations like pensions that are a drag on the economy.  The total GDP consumption should not exceed 25% of the economy, federal, state, and local.

If sound economic policies were in place the economy would recover in a relatively short period of time without the dead weight dragging it down.

After the economy recovered, with strict government spending limits imposed not to exceed 25% of the GDP, then you could talk about budgeting for social justice programs.

Or they can drag this out for decades if they so choose. 


Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:07 | 2158716 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture

The quickest solution is to end the massive intervention in the greek economy at all levels.  Let the economy achieve clearing prices, even in Euros -- it matters not.  Let the Greek people get back to the business of providing value to one another, and consensually exchanging that value to restore the economy.  Stop forcing Greeks to buy government corruption4, corecing them to buy union wages and pensions.  Stop providing the politically powerful with a government they can co-opt at the average Greek's expense.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:25 | 2158820 BaBaBouy
BaBaBouy's picture


2012 Ain't Gonna Be Pretty ...

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:46 | 2159580 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



Greeece needs Free Markets!


Greece needs to provide Tax breaks for the Job Creators!


Greece needs to Print to support their version of Wall Street!


This is what happens when you turn away from Trickle Down IMF Economics! Let it be a lesson to ALL! of you Sheep!


Less in Taxes means Less Government! and More for the People!

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:13 | 2158750 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

It must be so refreshing to wake up every morning with such an incredibly simple answer to such complex problems.  It's all the fault of government, lazy workers who want to be paid more than the Chinese, and tax rates that are too high on paper [ask GE about the real rate].   What are you -- an economics teacher?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:18 | 2158776 macholatte
macholatte's picture



I have seen all, I have heard all, I have forgotten all.
Marie Antoinette


People say to me, Would you like to swap your life with me for 24 hours? Your life must be very strange. But of course I have not experienced any other life. It's not strange to me.
Prince Andrew

I don't even know how to use a parking meter, let alone a phone box.
Princess Diana


My people and I have come to an agreement which satisfied us both. They are to say what they please, and I am to do what I please.
Frederick II

It is legal because I wish it.
Louis XIV


Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:24 | 2158819 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Two last quotes, pure laughter.

My, my, people speaking on their own behalf.

US citizen versions:

It is legal because mankind wishes it.

They are to say what they please, and we the humanity are to do what we please.

Advancement of human kind, as US citizens are used to say.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:10 | 2159119 akak
akak's picture

Never forget the best quote of all, by the great Chinese Stoolman Mousy Tongue, in his famous Dimunitive Carmine Dissertation:

"All hypocrisy and running dog blobbing-up flows from the barrel of Chinese citizenism."

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:47 | 2159324 zapdude
zapdude's picture

...and taking a dump along the side of the road while picking their noses! 


I say its a good day when you can work the phrase "blobbing up" into a sentence.

This AnAnonymous is a hopelessly retarded troll, but your responses always make sense of his worthless blatherings. 

Keep it up, I know I'm not the only fan out here.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:53 | 2159342 akak
akak's picture

Great thanks from this anti-blobbing US citizen!

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 23:38 | 2160496 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

I'll second

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:27 | 2158835 surfsup
surfsup's picture

"Its not what they think about me that matters, its what I think about them."  Queen Victoria

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 00:15 | 2160597 Real Money Wins
Real Money Wins's picture

"There are only two things i know to be infinite, the Universe and human stupidity, and I'm not sure about the first."

Albert Einstein

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:19 | 2159177 Benjamin Simon
Benjamin Simon's picture

I think price Andrew thought he said WIFE not LIFE.  Which would explain alot.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 19:16 | 2159694 cifo
cifo's picture

Check out Wise Clock 3, which can display thousands of quotes:


Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:30 | 2158823 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture

It must be worrying to have to face the reality that redistributing economic seed corn endlessly to buy grow socialista power (get votes from Unions, government workers, pander redistribution to the less wealthy, etc) has the effect of distorting an economy so badly that it eventually undermines the ability to create wealth, and it collapses in famine. 

What little socialism is able to bestow on the masses is a byproduct of the luxury enabled by saved / stored wealth -- the economic seed-corn of the productive classes, and it lasts only so long as private property and individual rights are protected from the parasitic / rent seeking classes, who will gorge on the seed-corn and distort the economy until it collapses under it's own weight. 

Greece's problem is that it, like all socialist nations, is now facing the consequence of having built a taller and taller monument to socialist grandeur by pulling up the planks from it's own economic foundation.  So now it must collapse, and rebuild a genuine economy.  God Help the ignorant who suffer for having followed socialism to ruin, and pity to those of sound liberty mind who must suffer for being shackled by the tyranny / stupidity of the masses.

And the Greeks now are reminded why the U.S. was established as a liberty-based republic.  The U.S., too, will suffer for sullying liberty with its current abomination of a government / economic system, a neo-authoritarian (you and I cannot say no thanks to it or we a jailed or shot...) partnership of corporatism and socialism.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:48 | 2158852 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Your oligarch masters appreciate your unflappable support.   Of course the problem is the workers and the social programs.  The oligarchs amassed unprecedented wealth over the last few decades by pure accident.   The debt incurred by the people has absolutely nothing to do with the wealth gained by the oligarchs.

"the economic seed-corn of the productive classes".

Thank you Jamie and Lloyd for being so productive and planting seeds for the rest of us. And you too, Fuld and Corzine. And Mozilo. And of course thank you to the heirs of the Wal-Mart fortune who have more combined wealth than the bottom 30 percent of the entire country in which they live.  Thank you for all you did being born into wealth.  And thank you all heirs of great fortune who control the vast majority of wealth in the world. And of course let's not forget the Rothschilds or the Queen of England or other worldwide dynasties of wealth and privilege which arose as a birthright.  Thank you for your great productivity and contribution to us all.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:52 | 2159341 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture

Pathetic interpretation.  (Deliberate obfuscation?)

The problem is BOTH the political nexus of socialistas and corporatistas. Both are parasistas.  The oligarchs you speak of amassed their wealth by fleecing the common man, and primarily the real wealth producers and savers, while the socialistas got them the other direction. 

You're fuddled with red tinted  glasses that see only the class warfare duality -- haves and have nots, creating a straw man with your hopeless paradigm of "us vs them" on a static pie of wealth.  If you can't see the difference between real wealth producers and Fuld, Corzine and Mozilo, or that the Fuld's, Corzine's, Mozilos (Bush's, Obama's, Henry Paulson's, etc.) all depend on, you're hopeless.

As for being "born into wealth", redsters like you can't explain how so many in the U.S. came to wealth from nothing long before the invention of unions and big government, or why the U.S. was the wealthiest nation in the world (rife with seed corn) long before.

As for anyone's contribution to productivity, don't bother thanking me. I'm thanked by those who pay me for my services voluntarily.  They consent because it is a value to them.

Grubby redsters and class warfarers think by being born you're entitled to others productivity.

This is the myth of the 99% vs the 1% paradigm the Occupy Wall Street crowd tried to roll with, but which fell flat with most of America.  A hard working farmer or blue collar factory worker may smell a rat on Wall Street like many of us do, but they don't think the free market is to blame.  They correctly pin it on those who have coopted BIG GOVERNMENT for their benefit -- the socialistas who demand others pay for their version of utopia, and the corporatists / banksters who rake us over the coals day in and out. 

But your infantile model cannot see this complexity, that these enemies of individualism, hard work and parasites on private wealth formation - socialism and corporatism -- are the opposite side of the same Big Government coin.

Give it up.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:21 | 2159459 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture


I love how the only choice Socialists want us to think we have is a choice between Socialism and Corporatism.

Eat shit and bark at the moon, you pinko fuckshites.  I'm taking my marbles and retreating to a safe distance so I can watch it burn.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:42 | 2159562 GCT
GCT's picture

Well written, when you disagree with someone these days your a racist or a Neocon or a commie.  Especailly when the other side has no facts to bring to the table.  This is what the poweers that be want you to do, blame the other person for all of your problems and point fingers and go oh-oh.  When a sound argument is presented these days your just a malcontent.

I come here every day to read this site and learn everyday.  Yes I have been called a moron by some and that is ok if they present me the facts or the link to the facts.  I am thankful to them.  ZH is brutal and I am greatful for it. ZH  challenges people to think instead of just following the herd mentality.   The hardest thing to people to actually is to open your mind put aside all the emotion and actually read what another commentator has to say or examine your own thought process.  Tough to do when I used to spout the party lines as well.

The party line will get you slaughtered here.  Thank goodness! 

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:54 | 2159575 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Of course, anyone who challenges your belief system must be a parasite.   How elegant and simple to live by such black and white ideology.   Why don't you tell me again about the seed corn planted by the Wal-Mart heirs?   Surely a few individuals who control as much wealth as 30% of the entire U.S. population must have some very important role in your utopian free market meritrocacy.   Or should we just ignore those little details like you also seek to ignore Fuld, Corzine, Lloyd, Jamie, etc because they exemplify the raw excesses of capitalism?  

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 11:34 | 2161699 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture

Still missing the point, entirely.  I am concluding that you're deliberately obfuscating the point. 

Corporatists are part of the parasitic class. Those who achieve their wealth through these means -- your Fuld's, Corzine's, Lloyd's, Jamie's, -- and the Clintons, Obamas and Bushs, and the Kennedys and... the Hoffas, the Rumsfeld-Halliburtons, the Ashcrofts, the Cheneys...  the Gingrichs... The J.P. Morgans, the Goldmans, the  etc. etc. etc.

I can't make it any clearer.

What frustrates you is that I won't accept a second wrong as a fix -- socialista parasitic utopianism -- as the only alternative to corporatism.  That's because it proves to bulldoze individual rights as much as corporatism.  It is governance at the end of tyranny, that jails those who simply want to live consensually, without being forced to buy from here or there, this union or that.  Socialism and corporatism are bedfellows, and you're too filled with envy against all haves that you can't get beyond it... that you can't discern the difference of those who achieve their wealth through coercion / govt. force, vs. those who achieve it through voluntary cooperation, for the betterment of all parties to the transaction.  You think you know what's best, and therefore the rest of us should choke it on down...

So you focus on Wal Mart and its heirs instead of the Big Government that created laws that make the Wal-Mart Model the most efficient model to bring consumers affordable prices... You're ignoring that the Federal Reserve system devours individual prosperity through constant ongoing inflation, even during the best of times, because that inflation funds your socialism -- is the lifeblood of Big Government.

You wouldn't be employed in the socialista arts, would you?

Or perhaps you're here to stir the pot, and you're a corporatist beneficiary who hates Ayn Rand as much as any socialista interventionista since you perfectly understand Liberty is the enemy of Banksterism and Corporatism, and so you try to hoodwink the downtrodden to be develop a hate of liberty and freedom with Elsworth Tooweyesque banter....

Even a plain socialista plays the stock market of the soul, and sells short.  You want to break hope for your own power, aggrandizement. 

To quote the Great Toohey himself (on what I think you're up to...):

There are many ways. Here’s one. Make man feel small. Make him feel guilty. Kill his aspiration and his integrity. That’s difficult. The worst among you gropes for an idol in his own twisted way. Kill integrity by internal corruption. Use it against himself. Direct it towards a goal destructive of all integrity. Preach selflessness. Tell man that altruism is the ideal. Not a single one has ever reached it and not a single one ever will. His every living instinct screams against it. But don’t you see what you accomplish ? Man realises that he’s incapable of what he’s accepted as the noblest virtue - and it gives him a sense of guilt, of sin, of his own basic unworthiness. Since the supreme ideal is beyond his grasp, he gives up eventually all ideals, all aspiration, all sense of his personal value. He feels himself obliged to preach what he can’t practice. But one can’t be good halfway or honest approximately. To preserve one’s integrity is a hard battle. Why preserve that which one knows to be corrupt already? His soul gives up its self respect. You’ve got him. He’ll obey. He’ll be glad to obey – because he can’t trust himself, he feels uncertain, he feels unclean. That’s one way.



Here’s another. Kill man’s sense of values. Kill his capacity to recognise greatness or to achieve it. Great men can’t be ruled. We don’t want any great men. Don’t deny conception of greatness. Destroy it from within. The great is the rare, the difficult, the exceptional. Set up standards of achievement open to all, to the least, to the most inept – and you stop the impetus to effort in men, great or small. You stop all incentive to improvement, to excellence, to perfection. Laugh at Roark and hold Peter Keating as a great architect. You’ve destroyed architecture. Build Lois Cook and you’ve destroyed literature. Hail Ike and you’ve destroyed the theatre. Glorify Lancelot Clankey and you’ve destroyed the press. Don’t set out to raze all shrines – you’ll frighten men, Enshrine mediocrity - and the shrines are razed...





...Here’s another way. This is most important. Don't allow men to be happy. Happiness is self-contained and self-sufficient. Happy men have no time and no use for you. Happy men are free men. So kill their joy in living. Take away from them what they want. Make them think that the mere thought of a personal desire is evil. Bring them to a state where saying ‘I want’ is no longer a natural right, but a shameful admission. Altruism is of great help in this. Unhappy men will come to you. They’ll need you. They’ll come for consolation, for support, for escape. Nature allows no vacuum. Empty man’s soul – and the space is yours to fill.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 04:34 | 2160880 Pitchman
Pitchman's picture

"You have a system that's not being run to be productive as an economy or healthy as an economy.  Its being run to centralize control." - Cathrine Austin Fitts

She had companies working with HUD; getting welfare moms off the dole.  She improved HUD's foreclosed properties auctions, saving the taxpayer $2.5 billion.  The software developed opened the bidding and shined a light on the rigged process.  This did not please one to the nations largest slumlords; The Harvard Endowment.  Long story short: They were not pleased that "ni#%ers with computers" were making them pay market prices or that dependent citizens were given an opportunity to become productive.  They, HUD and the DOJ crushed her business and started sweeps of the projects to fill up the newly privatized prisons.  Some of the food stamp program's customer service business was handled by one her start-ups.  Now those calling for customer service get a JP Morgan employee on the phone; in India.  - God Bless The USA!

If you're interested in the depth of the Rabbit Hole and the psychopaths within, see the "Dillon Reed and Company: And the Aristocracy of Stock Profits" link at the bottom of: The Looting of America: Happy Labor Day

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:32 | 2158860 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Sure, sure.
Why look for other name?
US citizenism led to the GD, it is well known.

Same today, that is US citizenism.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:56 | 2158956 akak
akak's picture

And eternal Chinese citizenism leads to rampant public spitting, nose-picking and roadside shitting --- not to mention gross imperialism such as the conquering and raping of Tibet, and decades of warmongering against the peaceful and independent Republic of Taiwan.

Thus is the revealed the inherent, rampant animal-like, running dog nature of the Chinese citizen.

Every single Chinese citizen, even those not yet born, is directly responsible for the invasion, conquest and rape of Tibet and anti-Taiwanese warmongering.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 20:02 | 2159831 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Does this mean you don't want AnAnnoyingTroll to be your Valentine? ;)

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:56 | 2159360 zapdude
zapdude's picture

Go 'blobbing up' yourself and don't come back.

You're an ugly scab on the butt of ZH because your comments almost without exception make absolutely no sense. 

You've been openly ridiculed numerous times for your idiotic and meaningless phrases and don't contribute to anything productive to the conversation.

Your stupid posts just clutter up the other comments.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:02 | 2159378 akak
akak's picture

You're an ugly scab on the butt of ZH because your comments almost without exception make absolutely no sense.


Did you perhaps expect otherwise from a Chinese citizenism troll?

It is par for the course for them to troll online conversations in order to spread their crypto-fascist Chinese citizenism lies and propaganda, obfuscate, misdirect, confuse and generally blob-up the discussion.

Preventing open minds from seeking and finding the truth is typical of malicious Chinese citizens trolls.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:08 | 2159400 SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

Thumbs up, akak, give that CCP shill the business.....

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 20:17 | 2159888 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Ugly butt scabbing, a result of squatting over briars, thistles, thorns, and nettles while shitting along the roadside, is a part of the eternal nature of Chinese citizen citizenism trolling.


Tue, 02/14/2012 - 20:30 | 2159941 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

AnAnonymous uttered:

US citizenism led to the GD, it is well known.

Chinese citizen citizenism led to the 3GD (3 Gorges Dam) which was built with Chinese citizenism-enslaved Tibetans. The 3GD will fail because the blobbing up of corruption that is the eternal nature of Chinese citizen citizenism caused the 3GD engineers to cut corners in construction while they were busy nose-picking, spitting and farting and counting their profits from using Tibetan slave labor.

Such is the arrogance of running dog Chinese citizen citizenism imperialism.


Wed, 02/15/2012 - 04:36 | 2160883 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Again I say unto thee, alleviate some suffering:


Wed, 02/15/2012 - 02:26 | 2160782 Milestones
Milestones's picture


Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:03 | 2158707 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Looks like one of the tonier streets of Manhattan...

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:18 | 2158781 Eisenhorn
Eisenhorn's picture

It will go on until they cannot leech anymore wealth from the markets; a point we are beginning to approach. 

Once that happens, they pull the rug, batten down the hatches, and remold society after decade or so of "dark ages".

Sit in your ivory castle while the world goes to hell.  Eventually, they will BEG you to restore order and give you anything you ask for to do it.


Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:43 | 2158592 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

really hard to find one that works....

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:00 | 2158690 Whiner
Whiner's picture

Too bad the people have no guns. They will have to coopt the military. Good luck widdat.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:28 | 2159494 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

Err...  2.5 million private guns vs. 1.6 million goobermint guns.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:49 | 2158627 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


The following are 20 things we can learn about the future of America from the death of Detroit....

#1 People don't want to live where the stench of failure and decay is constantly in the air.  Back in the 1950s, Detroit was a teeming metropolis of approximately 2 million people.  According to the 2010 census, only 713,000 people live in Detroit today.  The U.S. Census Bureau says that Detroit lost a resident every 22 minutes during the first decade of this century.

#2 When the economy falls apart, desperate people will do desperate things and many homeowners will fight back.  Justifiable homicide in Detroit rose by a staggering 79 percent during 2011.

#3 In major cities where people are scrambling just to survive, any confrontation can quickly escalate into a life or death affair.  The rate of self-defense killings in Detroit is currently 2200% above the national average.

#4 When there is not enough money to go around, a lot of local governments will choose to cut back on police protection.  Ten years ago, there were approximately 5,000 police for the city of Detroit.  Today, there are less than 3,000.

#5 The essential social services that you are enjoying today will not always be there in the future.  Officials in Detroit recently announced that due to budget constraints, all police stations will be closed to the public for 16 hours a day.

#6 Economic decay is a breeding ground for chaos and violence.  Last Friday and Saturday, a total of nine shootings were reported in the city of Detroit.

#7 More Americans than ever are realizing the benefits of self-defense.  The following is what 73-year-old Julia Brown recently told the Daily....

The last time Brown, 73, called the Detroit police, they didn’t show up until the next day. So she applied for a permit to carry a handgun and says she’s prepared to use it against the young thugs who have taken over her neighborhood, burglarizing entire blocks, opening fire at will and terrorizing the elderly with impunity.

#8 When crime gets go bad that the police are powerless to stop it, vigilante groups begin to form....

In fact, crime has gotten so bad and the citizens are so frustrated by the lack of police assistance that they have resorted to forming their own organizations to fight back.  One group, known as "Detroit 300", was formed after a 90-year-old woman on Detroit's northwest side was brutally raped in August.

#9 When criminals become desperate, they will steal literally anything that is not bolted down.  In Detroit today, thieves have stripped so much copper wiring out of the street lights that half of all the lights in some neighborhoods no longer work.

#10 As things fall apart, eventually a time comes when it is not even safe to drive down the road in the middle of the day.  100 bus drivers in Detroit recently refused to drive their routes out of fear of being attacked on the streets.  The head of the bus drivers union, Henry Gaffney, said that the drivers were literally "scared for their lives"....

“Our drivers are scared, they’re scared for their lives. This has been an ongoing situation about security. I think yesterday kind of just topped it off, when one of my drivers was beat up by some teenagers down in the middle of Rosa Parks and it took the police almost 30 minutes to get there, in downtown Detroit,” said Gaffney.

#11 One of the clearest signs of decline in America is the state of our education system.  Only 25 percent of all students in Detroit end up graduating from high school.  Many other major cities will soon have graduation rates similar to Detroit.

#12 When local governments run out of money they are forced to make tough choices.  After already shutting down dozens of schools, officials in Detroit have announced plans to close down 16 more schools.

#13 A growing percentage of Americans cannot even read or write.  This is a very frightening indication of what the future of America could look like.  According to one stunning report, 47 percent of all people living in the city of Detroit are functionally illiterate.

#14 Sadly, child poverty is absolutely exploding all over the United States.  Today, 53.6 percent of all children that live in Detroit are living below the poverty line.

#15 The employment situation in America is a lot worse than the government is telling us.  An analysis of census figures found that 48.5% of all men living in Detroit from age 20 to age 64 did not have a job in 2008.

#16 When a major city becomes a hellhole, home prices fall like a rock.  The median price of a home in Detroit is now just $6000.

#17 When crime and looting become commonplace, homes in an area can become absolutely worthless.  Some homes in Detroit have been sold for a single dollar.

#18 When depression-like conditions exist in an area for a number of years, large numbers of people will move on to greener pastures.  As of a few years ago, there were more than 40,000 vacant properties in the city of Detroit.

#19 Just because we have a high standard of living today does not mean that will always be the case.  Detroit is just a rotting shell of what it once was, and what is happening to Detroit will happen to much of the rest of America very soon.  The following is what one British reporter found during his visit to Detroit....

Much of Detroit is horribly dangerous for its own residents, who in many cases only stay because they have nowhere else to go. Property crime is double the American average, violent crime triple. The isolated, peeling homes, the flooded roads, the clunky, rusted old cars and the neglected front yards amid trees and groin-high grassland make you think you are in rural Alabama, not in one of the greatest industrial cities that ever existed.

#20 When government finances collapse, politicians look for things to sell off and "privatize".  Unfortunately, the Detroit city government is so broke that it is now considering selling off some of its most famous assets....

Now, the city of Detroit's most venerable assets — from Belle Isle to the Detroit-Windsor Tunnel — could end up on the auction block as the city fights for its financial life.

Facing mounting debt and the prospect of a state-appointed emergency manager, the city is looking at all options to shed expenses and raise revenue. If city officials can't come up with a viable budget plan, an emergency manager would have the power to sell assets as part of a financial takeover of Detroit.

But Detroit is not alone.

Lots of other cities all over America are flat broke and out of options.

For example, just check out what is happening in Scranton, Pennsylvania....

Mayor Christopher Doherty is blunt when asked about a court order forcing his Pennsylvania city to pay about $30 million in wages withheld from police and firefighters under a state-approved fiscal recovery plan.

“I don’t have the money,” said Doherty, 53. As for the chance of borrowing the cash, more than half of the city’s projected general-fund revenue, he added, “there’s no financial institution that’s going to give me $30 million to pay it.”

The U.S. economy never recovered from the last major financial crisis, and now another one is on the way.

As the economy crumbles, so will the fabric of our society.

The American people are terribly spoiled and they do not possess the character to handle depression-like conditions with grace and dignity.

In the years ahead, we are going to see rampant rioting and looting in our major cities.  The crime sprees that we will witness in future years will be absolutely unprecedented.

Things did not have to turn out this way, but unfortunately the consequences of decades of really bad decisions are starting to catch up with us.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:59 | 2158681 economics1996
economics1996's picture

I lived through that crap in Pontiac in the 1970s.  I was in a gang member dealing out the punishment.  I know what is coming, trying to give the ZHers a heads up my man.

And race will be very important, do not fool yourself with the government propaganda.   

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:05 | 2158714 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


"And race will be very important, do not fool yourself with the government propaganda."

I went to a Catholic school in the seventies. One of the Nuns previously worked in an inner city ghetto. She said a little Black girl she worked with told her that when the revolution came she would kill the Nun first. Kill her as in do her a favor and save her from all the abuse and pain Whitey had coming.

Sigh, I wish I had minority friends that considerate. 

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:10 | 2158683 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

This is an extremely well done map of the USA in 2011 outlining the cash / capita gains / losses by State / City / area.

For instance, Lee County, FL, gained a value of $406 million but lost 2,829 people.

Although this is slightly lossey, in that it deals only with IRS data [*cough* Cayman Islands *cough*] it is a very nice indicator of the wealth gain/drain going on in the USA.

L.A. lost $1.6 billion and 55k people. Ouch.


Your post was definitely lacking a reference to predatory lending practises by JP Morgan and co to local state municipalities.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:04 | 2158709 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

Thanks Gully, good info in your post.

But, really, isn't this what TPTB want?

What could suit them better than to have the population reduced to an illiterate feral state,

without the capacity to even speak to their condition, unable to even begin to remedy.

The planet reduced to flyover status for the most part, the owners travel from

one fortified oasis to another.

Low and mid level managers and bureaucrats fight for crumbs and positions.

The rest be damned.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:17 | 2158765 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Send in Snake Pliskin

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:29 | 2159506 LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

...I heard he was dead?!

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:05 | 2158712 Anti Psychotic
Anti Psychotic's picture

+100 for the sobering post

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:17 | 2158773 resurger
resurger's picture

great post man!

add to that the flash mobs (i dont mind flash mobs fucking up rich people tbh)

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:18 | 2158778 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

As the economy crumbles, so will the fabric of our society.


An argument can be made that the cause/effect here are reversed.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:22 | 2158791 Stevious
Stevious's picture

Well said.  Indeed there are areas where I think you could buy a mile of houses for one dollar.

As far as arming oneself, forget the pistol.  A 12 gauge pump shotgun (or 14 or 20ga if you're small) is the way to go.  First round rubber double odd buckshot, the second round, a rubber slug, the third double odd buckshot (not rubber) and after that it's your choice.

The mere act of having the first two shells as "non-lethal" ammo will go a long, long way to keep you out of trouble.  Note: At close range, both rubber shells are often lethal.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:33 | 2159525 10mm
10mm's picture

I gotta tell ya,walking around trying to conceal a shotgun while at this stage is gonna bring alot of UNWANTED attention.SHTF scenerio,your ok.However,high capacity pistol with additional mags will do fine.And when we have a Detroit enviorment all over,you better have effective ammo.Shotguns are limited,but i like my Saiga 12 with all the goodies.Now were cookin with gas.Unless you were referring to home def situation.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 20:01 | 2159830 smiler03
smiler03's picture

You make a very good point. All those on here who constantly utter guns & ammo (or the lead/copper variants) never seem to mention bullet proof vests. Is it because they expect to always get the first and only shot?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:55 | 2158989 Agent P
Agent P's picture

...and it's only halftime.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:51 | 2159335 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Thank you Gully! It sure would be interesting if very ZH member living in a city would do an analysis of that city from the perspective so capably outlined here. Although few US cities could be painted in as bleak tones - yet - I suspect that many are far worse off than most of us suspect. America has been hollowed out, and awareness of that has yet to dawn. I just wonder - where is the explosion?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 20:15 | 2159880 Hedgerow-
Hedgerow-'s picture

This Detroit sounds quite a bit like Mogadishu. Can you not just invade the place and set up a puppet goverment?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:57 | 2158674 nodhannum
nodhannum's picture

That is not possible!  Unsere Fuhrer has saved Detroit or so I heard.  Sorry about the umlaut.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:46 | 2158931 Zodiac
Zodiac's picture

Actually the food in the last picture looks good to me -- better than what I have.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:42 | 2158581 Eisenhorn
Eisenhorn's picture

And let's be honest.  Hungry white people is the WORST thing that can happen for plight of hungry Brown people.  Because when the white people can't afford to send food/focus their food on other whites.....who is left to help the sub-saharans of the world?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:51 | 2158639 true brain
true brain's picture

That's true. But the sub-saharan should learn to take care of themselves. Otherwise don't have babies you can't take care of. This goes for sub-saharan, china, india, detroit etc..equally. Who gives you the right to think that other people should take care of you or your hungry babies. Nature does not care. Neither do I.The human population bubble should pop and with it the extinction of bleeding heart democrats and socialists.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:03 | 2158704 Eisenhorn
Eisenhorn's picture

I believe you should help your fellow man out of the goodness and generosity in your heart.  HOWEVER, I do NOT believe people should EXPECT others to provide for them. 

Hope makes a terrible plan.

Charity is a choice, not a right.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:10 | 2158736 nodhannum
nodhannum's picture

Hope makes a teribble plan?  Not according to the annointed one.  You must be a terrorist (sarc/off)!

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:19 | 2158785 Eisenhorn
Eisenhorn's picture

Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 03:01 | 2160812 Milestones
Milestones's picture

Then we need curse Pandora and her magical box (ya, got it): alas a Greek goddess.               Milestones    

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:24 | 2158816 OutLookingIn
OutLookingIn's picture

Global Demographics. Educate yourselves. Read.

Just before the Industrial Revolution, world population stable at approx 2 billion.

After, through improved agricultural methods, internal combustion engine, industrial/petrochemical fertilizers, the worlds population has exploded and continues to grow.

After peak oil and cheap energy ends - Who will feed the surplus population thats in excess of 2 billion?

The world at this moment has 5 billion too many mouths to feed. It will end in global warfare.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:29 | 2158842 Eisenhorn
Eisenhorn's picture

Of course it will.  Everything human "ends" in warfare.

Or does it begin?


Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:16 | 2159154 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

After, through improved agricultural methods, internal combustion engine, industrial/petrochemical fertilizers, the worlds population has exploded and continues to grow.


No. Those were enablers but not the decisive factors.

Smithian economics explain the population boom and the necessity of.

US citizens have wanted to deplete a pheriphery to concentrate into a core.

Performing this effectively required an increase in population.

A guy lives in ruins full of antics. Antics sellers want to empty the ruins the fastest possible.

But they do not want the guy to consume what they consume.

The solution is to force the guy into a population boom. More and more people living in the ruins, demand only for the bare essentials. Many vectors of small level demand so the extraction is performed quickly while what antics sellers consume is not consumed by people living into ruins.

The use of energy and the rest did not lead to population increase.

And the excess of population is to be found among US citizens.

One could argue that every human life style is not sustainable but US citizen life style has performed the trick of reaching the global limits in 200 years.

US citizens are simply pushing people under the train to keep living the dream some years more.
US citizen economics did.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:21 | 2159183 akak
akak's picture

Make me laugh!

It is Chinese citizenism that is the ultimate in unsustainable human explosions --- all you antheap-living, nose-picking, roadside shitting, rabbit-breeding human vermin, blobbing up all your resources in a frenzy of environmental degradation and destruction, as well as grasping at the rest of the world's resources too. 

But such is the eternal self-destructive nature of pernicious Chinese citizenism.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:25 | 2159477 TarzanNe1
TarzanNe1's picture

Maybe you should try to read aswell

Over population is not a problem distribution is, both of food and welth.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 03:04 | 2160815 Milestones
Milestones's picture

Question: how do yo get rid of 5B. bodies? I agree, it is needed,---just how do you do it???                 Milestones

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 04:54 | 2160903 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Bacteria, Fungii and scavengers seem to do a good job with roadkill...

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:07 | 2158723 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Nature does not care.


Because US citizenism is nature now? Ha, the natural rights, that is.

Best is still that starving people are once again pointed for any consumption issues.

Funny as funny.

US citizenism is as us citizen does.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:30 | 2158824 akak
akak's picture

Best is still that starving people are once again pointed for any consumption issues.


Sense making the comments of yours regularly do not.

Your nose-picking, crypto-fascist, running dog imperialist Chinese slavemasters should really teach you better English.

But at least this comment does not contain your usual warped, grossly bigoted and stereotypical anti-American drivel.

Such a collectivist mindset, however, being typical of Chinese citizenism.

Chinese citizenism is characterized by invading, conquering, exploiting, destroying and blobbing up.

Oh yes, and public spitting and nose-picking too (not to mention roadside shitting).

Hypocrisy, animal-like behavior and blobbing is all that can be expected from Chinese citizenism.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:35 | 2158876 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Chinese citizenism is characterized by invading, conquering, exploiting, destroying and blobbing up.


Ah the safe harbour of scapegoating.

Down the road, Somalia pirates. No concern though, US citizens will still kick the can, building on their fantasy world.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:42 | 2158899 akak
akak's picture

Ah the safe harbour of scapegoating.


Ah, the glaring and naked hypocrisy of Chinese citizenism, fully revealed for all the world to see.

The dragon bone grinding, rhino horn consuming, cobra bile imbibing traditional Chinese physician, heal thyself!

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:18 | 2159166 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

But what hypocrisy?

Spin is spin.

When US citizens want to start a tale to keep kicking the can, it remains a tale.

The duplicity is on the side of US citizens, who want to keep believing their tale is facts.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:33 | 2159251 akak
akak's picture

Hypocrisy and lies, thy name is Chinese citizenism!


(That is a humorous play on a famous quote by an old English playwright named William Shakespeare, with whom however I am sure you are not aware, he having been a fellow round-eyed foreign devil.)

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 20:07 | 2159848 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

We need a STFU button for AA...

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 00:23 | 2160616 dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

no, kak too.    blaf fukin blah blah blah

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 08:14 | 2161053 Bohemian Clubber
Bohemian Clubber's picture

Exactly. AA tries his luck and Akak keeps insulting him like a child. Hey I don't agree with avery thing he says but hell let him speak. Freedom boy. BTW by your insults you just confirm what he thinks of you and insults are a just another indicator of your impotency. Am just sayin

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 22:07 | 2160208 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

akak bravely exposed the hypocrisy of blobbing up Chinese citizenism when stating:

Ah, the glaring and naked hypocrisy of Chinese citizenism, fully revealed for all the world to see.

The dragon bone grinding, rhino horn consuming, cobra bile imbibing traditional Chinese physician, heal thyself!

The eternal hypocritical nature of Chinese citizen citizenism is exemplified by the $100 per serving shark fin soup luxury, created by organized Chinese citizen criminal citizenism, and paid for with money extracted from the exploitation of Tibetan slave labor.

The shame of blobbing Chinese citizen imperialism and shark murdering organized Chinese criminal citizenism syndicates can no longer be papered over with pages from Mao's little red book.


Tue, 02/14/2012 - 21:55 | 2160180 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

akak observed:

Chinese citizenism is characterized by invading, conquering, exploiting, destroying and blobbing up.

Oh yes, and public spitting and nose-picking too (not to mention roadside shitting).

Over a billion roadside squats daily, over a billion turds deposited by the roadside daily. Chinese citizen cesspoolism is burying the planet in excrement.

Hypocrisy, animal-like behavior and blobbing is all that can be expected from Chinese citizenism.

Such is the eternal nature of Chinese citizen citizenism and Chinese citizen cesspoolism.


Tue, 02/14/2012 - 22:20 | 2160245 akak
akak's picture

Chinese citizen cesspoolism.


"Chinese citizen cesspoolism" ---- that is eternal!

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 03:13 | 2160823 Milestones
Milestones's picture

O.K. I'm a dumb fuck-----someone please tell me what the hell "citizensim" is supposed to be? Seems like my 10th grade Civics class never went over this idiotic word before.                   Milestones

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:46 | 2158929 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

I can only up-vote you once so + 1,000,000,000,000!


Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:47 | 2158622 uno
uno's picture

I would assume Appalachia has some hungry poor folks, just not sexy enough for MSM to cover.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:20 | 2158792 adr
adr's picture

Appalachia has plenty of poor people, but they pretty much take care of themselves. The last thing any government official wants to do is go to Appalachia. They would be more likely to be killed on the spot than be accepted for help. Detroit is different, almost nobody there can provide for themselves, they are 100% dependent on outside transfers of wealthto survive. There are only two grocery stores left in Metro Detroit. The population depends on the bus t get to suburban Walmarts. You want to kill off the ghetto, kill public transportation. Without the ability to scavenge off the production of white suburbs, the ghetto population will die off. Soon the choice will need to be made, either the ghetto dies or white suburbia does. There is no middle ground.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:55 | 2158965 JohnnyBriefcase
JohnnyBriefcase's picture

"Soon the choice will need to be made, either the ghetto dies or white suburbia does. There is no middle ground."


Where do we "vote"?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:20 | 2158794 Eisenhorn
Eisenhorn's picture

I was going to say that those folks are hungry by choice.....but then I are the Greeks.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:01 | 2159019 Tator
Tator's picture

I live in Appalachia. Folks here can live off the land because they always have as part of their culture. Everyone has a garden and meat is plentiful year round.


I got a chuckle out of "The last thing any government official wants to do is go to Appalachia." because it is so true. There are still a lot of moonshiners up here and stories of "Revenuers" meeting the demise are still told here.


This is the last place someone who wishes to do harm or steal should come. EVERYONE is armed to the teeth and everyone knows everyone. Kids here learn to hunt at 12 with high power rifles with scopes. They know the land because they have walked it and hunted it all their lives.


I would put up a few 16 olds with their hunting rifles up against a small army of civilians wishing to do harm or steal. It would be a turkey shoot.


And their dads...all have AR15s. When the world comes apart, I will be glad I am here...and I pity those poor Progressives that voted to disarm themselves.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:40 | 2159551 10mm
10mm's picture

City boy here,ill direct the shit heads out your way for a turkey shoot.Ill tell them it's all yours and free for the takeing.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 19:02 | 2159641 Tator
Tator's picture

We look forward to the trophies.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:39 | 2159296 mkkby
mkkby's picture

Give them all a gun and point them toward the bankers.  A supreme court justice will do in a pinch.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:31 | 2158499 Benjamin Simon
Benjamin Simon's picture

It is bad moron. Have you ever had Greek soup?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:33 | 2158510 battle axe
battle axe's picture

This is the future....

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:38 | 2158546 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

I swear the stock market is swaying like it's drunk. Someone go over there and see if it's feeling ok would ya?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:58 | 2158682 nodhannum
nodhannum's picture

And their women can afford to shave...oh the tragedy!

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:32 | 2158506 prains
prains's picture

Let them eat Vapour - John Corozine (0.1%er)

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:36 | 2158537 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture

Clueless Economist

Allow me a simple contrast.

The BIL wants to move his family from Santa Barbara to Bend Oregon. They have a year old child.

His wife is the big earner and carries the health insurance.

His wife will quit her job. But first they will attempt to qualify for a loan. Then they will take a three week vacation to Australia.

He thinks that in an area with reported 12% UE his wife will find a job right away.

This same guy works at home from a three room apartment and pays a fucking housecleaner and babysitter!

Since they had the kid they already tapped into their savings for a couple of grand.

Talk about your train wrecks waiting to happen.






Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:54 | 2158650 Kali
Kali's picture

What a fool! I work in Bend a lot. It has been in a DEPRESSION for 2+ years now. There are NO jobs there.  Dumb Californians.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:12 | 2158747 Gully Foyle
Gully Foyle's picture


His wife is like a pa to some independently wealthy guys wife. He thinks she will grab a job as a resort or hotel office manager.

The wife has family in Eugene and some friends in Bend.

My opinion is the wife is unconsciously setting toward divorce. They want a second kid. Back of her mind she knows they can't afford a house and two kids. She moves closer to mommy and daddy, they will live with them while job and house hunting, so when everything goes pear shaped she has a safe haven to run to.

I could understand if the plan was to move somewhere where his work from home business allowed them to profit. But that isn't his plan.

Five years from now he will be like one of those Greeks crying at a soup kitchen.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:27 | 2158833 Kali
Kali's picture

Good to see you posting again Gully.

 Eastern Oregon is in really bad shape. So is Eugene, Lane County just announced the Sheriff's office will have to close a bunch of jail beds and lay off half the force. A lot of the rural counties are losing their timber payments, they are crossing fingers Obummer will reinstate them, there are about half a dozen counties on the verge of bankruptcy. Bend was a California conclave. When the housing boom went bust, they took a huge hit, a lot of the people went back to CA. Resorts are not doing well, the snow hasn't cooperated for the ski places for the last few years. Restaurants are closing left and right, have been for 3+ years now. Hell, they were cheering the opening of $10/hr telemarketing jobs some boiler room opened last year.

If they have kids, schools suck and are getting suckier.  Statewide only about a 50% graduation rate.  For some reason, Kalifornians think if they move to Oregon, Washington or Idaho, they are gonna have it better.  Nope.  On top of it, most of the locals HATE Californians, they are the ones who drove the housing/land prices through the roof before the bust.  I run into people like your BIL in the PNW all the time.  They are the ones living in RVs in the desert.

Oregon is a huge welfare state, maybe if they keep popping out babies they'll do OK, but taxs revs keep dropping, 35million more than the projections, don't see how that State can afford it much longer.  Yeesh.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:39 | 2158558 Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

@Paul Krugman, exactly! What people don't realize is the success of your keynesianism at making Greece still a better place to live than North Korea or the sub-Sahara. What a great success story that is. Kudos!

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:45 | 2158603 midtowng
midtowng's picture

So your measurement of "bad" is the same as "worst"? Everything else is "good"?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:52 | 2158648 nodhannum
nodhannum's picture

Damn Krugman, that's not really the point is it? Someone is always better/worse off than "fill in the blank". Geeez!

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:36 | 2158878 hbjork1
hbjork1's picture

Rght on.  Beautiful Mediterrenean weather, a relatively civilised populace, acient history, islands that could provide spaces for mini-disneylands built of historical themes.  They have people that can work gold or silver for quality period jewelry to be sold to tourists.  Music is different as well and have potential for entertainment venues as well.  If Las Vegas or Branson, MO can do it it shoud be possible in Greece. 

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 20:09 | 2159853 smiler03
smiler03's picture

"mini-disneylands built of historical themes".


Lets hope like hell that you never make it to Greece. I vomit on your visions.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:32 | 2159265 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

Sub-Saharan Africa?

Take a look at Detroit.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:07 | 2159394 Nussi34
Nussi34's picture

Most Greeks should diet anyways!

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 19:35 | 2159750 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

Such images will cease to have any real impact as they multiply not only across Greece but also the rest of the western world. Such outcomes are nothing more than a failure of human spirit by those who should and can show human spirit.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 21:10 | 2160057 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

When it happens to white people it's bad, when it happens to African's they consider it normal.  Just a bunch of ethnocentric nonsense.


Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:23 | 2158458 redpill
redpill's picture

It would suck for 3-5 years but at least then they'd be free and have a functional economy again.  Unfortunately I don't think they'll give up their cradle-to-grave welfare state.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:26 | 2158471 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

This is sad.

Did you hear the news that Britney Houston or Whitney Spears died in a tragic bathtub accident?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:31 | 2158498 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

No, I think it was Meredith Whitney.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:34 | 2158519 Capitalist10
Capitalist10's picture

They don't really have a choice, since their neighbors have lost patience with funding their welfare state with loans that the Greeks can never and will never repay.


One way or another Greek living standards are going to have to drop to match their productivity.  Greece isn't devolving into a third world country; it always was one.  They just covered it up for a few decades by going on a spending spree with the rest of the EU's credit cards.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:42 | 2158585 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

Yes those Greek Shipping Billionaires that paid no taxes where is Spiros Latsis the 56th richest man on the Forbes List who hosts Barroso on his yacht ?

The Latsis family fortune, managed by Spiros Latsis, includes more than 40% in EFG Eurobank Ergasias, the second largest bank in Greece, and more than 30% in Hellenic Petroleum, a major petroleum player in Southern Europe, through his ownership of Paneuropean Oil and Industrial Holdings S.A.. The Latsis group also controls Lamda Development, a real estate group based in Athens. Lamda Development projects include The Mall Athens, which opened in 2005, and Golden Hall Mall, also in Athens.

Latsis invited the President of the European Commission, José Manuel Durão Barroso, who had been a student friend at the London School of Economics, to be a guest on his yacht a month before the Commission approved €10.3 million Greek state aid for Latsis' shipping company; but the approval had been given by the previous European Commission, before Durão Barroso had succeeded to its presidency.[1]


Just how many contracts entered into by the Greek State were simply to line the pockets of Insiders ?  It is no use blaming people in soup kitchens for the mess - Hemingway didn't write the Grapes of Wrath about Goldman bankers........



Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:53 | 2158651 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

Oligarch Greeks do not pay taxes, point made. Big money knows no borders.

BTW, I'm almost certain Steinbeck wrote Grapes of Wrath.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:23 | 2158808 gaoptimize
gaoptimize's picture

I dated his awesome granddaughter in the 1980's.  What a goddess.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:06 | 2159075 xela2200
xela2200's picture

Steinbeck complained publicly about government harassment. Thomas Steinbeck, the author's eldest son, said that J. Edgar Hoover, director of the FBI at the time, could find no basis for prosecuting Steinbeck and therefore used his power to encourage the U.S. Internal Revenue Service to audit Steinbeck's taxes every single year of his life, just to annoy him. According to Thomas, a true artist is one who "without a thought for self, stands up against the stones of condemnation, and speaks for those who are given no real voice in the halls of justice, or the halls of government. By doing so these people will naturally become the enemies of the political status quo."

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:53 | 2158652 Capitalist10
Capitalist10's picture

Unfortunate, but the entire Greek public is responsible for electing a string of governments that have all turned a blind eye to such rampant tax evasion (among other sins).

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:00 | 2158691 Apostate2
Apostate2's picture

Hemingway-- a moveable feast

Angry grapes--Steinbeck

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:57 | 2159618 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

You are correct.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:03 | 2158705 TonyCoitus
TonyCoitus's picture

I don't know.  Who is John Galt?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:34 | 2158872 zorbathefreak
zorbathefreak's picture

Hemingway? Smoke another, brah!

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:10 | 2158740 Stevious
Stevious's picture

Uh...seems to me that there's another country in the world that was (is) acting the same exact way... albeit in a considerably more grandiose scale.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:31 | 2158504 0z
0z's picture

Get a place by the sea, tidy it up, hire a couple of people off the table to fish and grow vegetables, a couple of beds and off the record visitors(tourists). The fastest growing economy in the world is the black market. Nothing keeps people from being inventive and ambitious. Just take whatever people can pay with. Hell, even take Yens if that's all they have, then go buy whatever fishing gear and ammunition it'll get.

A very good book about the depression years here in Canada, Ten Lost Years by Broadfoot; some of these folks did pretty good for themselves during those times, if they had the brains and the balls for it. The masses never get it right, and fighting for them is like yelling at your front lawn so it'll stop growing. Also check out The Fourth Way, by Ouspensky, for more in depth explanations of this.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:35 | 2158525 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

So how did it work out for you ?

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 15:45 | 2158602 0z
0z's picture

Some hunting and fishing up here in BC, it's not a bad place at all, but we have plans for Central Africa. I quote from Wikipedia(Heck there's some stuff even they can't hide) "The Democratic Republic of Congo is widely considered to be the richest country in the world." I'm only 27 and like adventure. Ohh and I speak french. I'll let you guys know when we run a nice place by the Congo river.

And as for trading, I guess I debuted in a pretty rough time, but I'm still looking forward to the shorts coming back from vacations.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:29 | 2158702 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Not sure if sarcastic or suicidally naive.


Ahh.. whoever junked me really is a fucking muppet.

The Congo is the 2nd most dangerous place in the world to be a woman, and has just had a nice little spate of genocide and ranks as one of the least safest countries in the world.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:42 | 2158914 0z
0z's picture

It must be true, you read it on the internet!


Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:56 | 2158937 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture,9171,830872,00.html


Sometimes pictures don't lie, nor do the UN reports. You want pictures of 5 million dead people? Because they exist. Page after page after page of death, maiming, rape (both female and male) and general death of humanity.


The Second Congo War (also known as the Great War of Africa) began in August 1998 in the Democratic Republic of the Congo (formerly called Zaire), and officially ended in July 2003 when the Transitional Government of the Democratic Republic of the Congo took power; however, hostilities continue since then.

The deadliest war in modern African history, it directly involved eight African nations, as well as about 25 armed groups. By 2008, the war and its aftermath had killed 5.4 million people, mostly from disease and starvation,[3] making the Second Congo War the deadliest conflict worldwide since World War II.[4] Millions more were displaced from their homes or sought asylum in neighboring countries.[5]


Way to be a total non-ironic douche-bag and deny the deaths of 5-odd million people as "something you read on the internet". I suppose those gas chambers were "totally exaggerated" as well, right? 

I'd be fucking embarressed to have spawned you, but sure... head off to the Congo to carve a piece out of the Heart of Darkness with your pretty white wife, but don't complain when you're both skinned alive. And yes: you're what's wrong with the 2.0 Cap Gen, you fucking tool, and why you're not getting my 'vote'.




I realise you were attempting to be funny. You failed, especially when invoking the 8 paths.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:11 | 2159127 SoNH80
SoNH80's picture

Tropical disease is the real menace down there. Amoebas, malaria, nasty parasites. HIV- and Hepatitis tainted blood and instruments in the "hospitals".  Life expectancy is shockingly low there for a reason.

In Africa, dry is good, altitude is good.  Maybe set up shop as a safari guide in Botswana, but it would still be a hard life... 

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:56 | 2159003 0z
0z's picture

Well if youre all upset about genocide, why don't you make your way there and stand your ground?

Bla bla bla bla bla bla!

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:17 | 2159159 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

You missed it.


In other news, you're fucking stupid & ignorant. Way to make a splash after such a great start on self-sufficiency.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:54 | 2159351 0z
0z's picture

We would be more constructive each with a knife in a dark place.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 18:02 | 2159377 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture

Now now... Better learn how the formatting for posts works.


You've already cried wolf with a tearful sob to the teacher for name-calling, don't disgrace yourself with taking it further than fisticuffs.


#mayyourknifechipandshatter & #lionstigersandbears

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:11 | 2158746 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Made me laugh.

Congo resources are already allocated.
They are used to support US citizens in their standard of life.

Anyone taking from that pool undermines US citizens standard of life.

The local population only exists in US citizenism to enable the transfer from the congo to the US citizen world (vectors of demand)

Whoever wishes to see some of The congo wealth has better to stay or move in the US citizen world.

Moving to the congo only allows to see the wealth being shipped away to be consumed in the US citizen world.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:38 | 2158885 akak
akak's picture

Make me laugh!

Chinese (and Tibetan!) resources are already fully allocated --- to the crypto-fascist oligarchy currently in control of China.

Anyone taking from that pool undermines Chinese running dog imperialist oligarchy standard of life.

The local population only exists in Chinese citizenism to enable the transfer from the non-Chinese citizens to the Chinese citizen world (vectors of demand)

Whoever in formerly free Tibet wishes to see some of the wealth has better to move in the Chinese citizen world --- if the crypto-fascist Chinese citizenism regime does not exterminate them first.

Moving out of Tibet only allows to see the wealth being shipped away to be consumed in the foully polluted, rabbit-breeding, antheap-living, enforced-abortion Chinese citizenism world.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:22 | 2159189 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

Whoever in formerly free Tibet


It is funny how it is natural for US citizens to consider that a country that performs slavery is a free country.

US of A was a free country at start.

Tibet was a free country.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:37 | 2159281 akak
akak's picture

Slavery never existed in Tibet until the Chinese running dog imperialists invaded it and conquered that unfortunate nation. 

Just more Chinese citizenism historical revisionism.

Now Chinese-led genocide prevails in Tibet.

Lies are the hallmark of Chinese citizenism.

Wed, 02/15/2012 - 03:50 | 2160848 Milestones
Milestones's picture

You are so full of shit it is unreal! Akak, Nothing of your last 2-3 posts are more than  mumbo jumbo stuff that comes out of the East end of a West bound bull; unless it's a very good con. Like to see how far you'll take it.               Milestones

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 22:28 | 2160274 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

AnAnonymous correctly stated:

Tibet was a free country.

Yes, it was until running dog imperialist Chinese citizen citizenism blobbed up and enslaved the people of Tibet.

Chinese citizen citizenism is as Chinese citizen citizenism does.


Wed, 02/15/2012 - 04:07 | 2160861 Milestones
Milestones's picture

Your last line is a classic----Gawd bless!!!!  There's at least 3 0f you.               Milestones

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:39 | 2158895 0z
0z's picture

Ill take all these comments as excellent contrarian indicators.

Thank you.

(You mean just like one could have seen the wealth being shipped away to England from Virginia not that many generations ago? Cant wait!)


Tue, 02/14/2012 - 16:58 | 2159015 Use of Weapons
Use of Weapons's picture


White-on-white genocide never occurred in the American colonies.


Sadly, you're too fucking dumb to know your own history.

Tue, 02/14/2012 - 17:22 | 2159197 0z
0z's picture

My friend just had his baby killed by the State, here in Canada. Genocide is everywhere. If Japan had won the war, they rightly could have accused the Allies of war crimes.

The victors write history. If everything I hear about a place, that only means I should go there, since most of what my parents and the institution ever tried to teach me was a lie.

Why am I the only one here who doesnt call people names?

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