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PIIGS In America: Is Illinois Preparing To Request A Federal Bailout?

Tyler Durden's picture


Moments ago we saw the following amusing headline crossing the BBG:


It's amusing because these are the same teachers who were demanding, and received, higher pay - 17% higher over four years in fact - following a several day strike. It is even more amusing considering that in a fiscal year in which we saw QE2, Operation Twist 1 and 2, and LTRO 1 and 2, the nation's largest pension fund, Calpers, managed to eek out a measly 1% gain (and this is including the end of June surge following the then announced European bailout which turned out to be yet another dud). It is, however sadly, most amusing, because it may be a harbinger of something truly sad: the advent of the "PIIG bailout" to America, when a US state demands a Federal bailout. We have seen how eager Europe has been to bailout its insolvent nations. We are next about to see just how "united" the US is when its own solidarity is tested as state after state repeat the European bailout experience. But hey: at least we have the dollar so all should be well.

From the WSJ:

Now that Chicago's children have returned to not learning in school, we can all move on to the next crisis in Illinois public finance: unfunded public pensions. Readers who live in the other 49 states will be pleased to learn that Governor Pat Quinn's 2012 budget proposal already floated the idea of a federal guarantee of its pension debt. Think Germany and eurobonds for Greece, Italy and Spain.


Thank you for sharing, Governor.



Illinois now has some $8 billion in current debts outstanding and taxpayers are on the hook for more than $200 billion in unfunded retirement costs for government workers. By some estimates, the system could be the first in the nation to go broke, as early as 2018.


For years, states have engaged in elaborate accounting tricks to improve appearances, including using an unrealistically high 8% "discount" rate to account for future liabilities. To make that fairy tale come true, state pension funds would have to average returns of 8% a year, which even the toothless Government Accounting Standards Board and Moody's have said are unrealistic.


The city is already facing upwards of a $1 billion deficit next year with hundreds of millions of dollars in annual pension costs for retired teachers coming due. But despite the fiscal imperatives, the negotiation didn't even discuss pensions. The final deal gave unions a more than 17% raise over four years, while they keep benefits and pensions that workers in the wealth-creating private economy can only imagine.


As a political matter, public unions are pursuing a version of the GM strategy: Never make a concession at the state level, figuring that if things get really bad the federal government will have no political choice but to bail out the pensions if not the entire state. Mr. Quinn made that official by pointing out in his budget proposal that "significant long-term improvements" in the state pension debt will come from "seeking a federal guarantee of the debt."

So when the time comes to bail out Chicago we can just tell America's insolvent state(s), who will soon pursue the MAD strategy of Europe's PIIGS, to demand a bailout with the ECB. We are confident the ECB will be more than happy to comply: after all quite soon Mario Draghi will realize that his goal should be to push the EUR down not up, and taking on more and more bailouts and money printing is precisely what he should be doing to once again retake the lead in the global FX race to debase.

After all, as it was already made clear earlier, Obama's promise in exchange for European votes, is to bail out Europe. It is only fair that Europe reciprocate after the election.

Quid pro quo.

And now: the End of the Beniverse


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Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:25 | 2819182 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

O/T: Is anyone following this:

Exclusive: Iranian hackers target Bank of America, JPMorgan, Citi

It was on CNBC earlier as well:


Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:34 | 2819211 Daily Bail
Daily Bail's picture

Meet Neil Codell an Illinois educator with a $26 million state pension.

Yes $26 fucking million.

You Thought California State Pensions Were Out Of Control? Wait Until You See This List From Illinois

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:42 | 2819228 Kitler
Kitler's picture

The bad news for Neil is that he will have to wait 14 years before he collects.

That $602K/year might buy him a double latte once a week at Starbucks once Ben is done.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:47 | 2819259 Daily Bail
Daily Bail's picture

As long as we are on the subject of state bailouts:


Slideshow with great photos, especially the 1st one:


Fri, 09/21/2012 - 17:17 | 2819286 Hype Alert
Hype Alert's picture

Not a problem, they'll just raise property taxes to cover it.  Remember you only lease your property from the government, the home ownership thing is another scam.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 18:03 | 2819411 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

The nice thing about small states is the relative short distance that is required to vote with your feet. The western US is screwed.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 19:48 | 2819595 Sauk Leader
Sauk Leader's picture

Meet Illinois Governer Joe Quimby (Pat Quinn) (He loves "the great state of illinois")

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 21:35 | 2819720 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

re: "the nation's largest pension fund,Calpers, managed to eek out a measly 1% gain"

eek means set 'n wet 

eke means get w' sweat

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 23:31 | 2819817 Vampyroteuthis ...
Vampyroteuthis infernalis's picture

And my question is which US gubbimint agency is going to back this shit. The Fed? Congress sure as hell won't back a bailout so Quinn is desperate and pulling promises out his ass to keep his job.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 09:53 | 2820048 Shocker
Shocker's picture

We are at a point all the decision made many years ago, coming back now. All theses Pension, Grants... are all coming due.

Interesting times for sure.


Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:26 | 2820218 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture


pensions...public employees just getting what they always got. adjust benefits to inflation they are not that far off.

private sector employees got screwed in last 30 years and now they are noticing the difference: no overtime, no job protection, no retirement, foreign labor, outsourcing, no real salary growth.


All the anti-union fucktards in private sector just realized they got raped by their capitalist masters but never saw the reality due to arrogance, and now trying to pull other worker slaves down.



avg. household income should be $90,000 adjusted for inflation.






they are just looking to punish "you people"






Fri, 09/21/2012 - 22:00 | 2819744 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Pat Quinn ... yet another Zionist graduate from [Jesuit] Georgetown U ... very deliberately driving America off the road and into the dust....

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 00:08 | 2819840 Joseph Jones
Joseph Jones's picture

The Roman church official declaration: if you believe the Hebrews killed Christ, you go to hell, plain and simple, no alternative. 

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 02:20 | 2819904 SeattleBruce
SeattleBruce's picture

"For God so loved the world that He gave His one and only Son, that whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life."  New Testament

It was everyone's sins that killed Christ, and it's in believing in Him that anyone is saved.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:28 | 2820224 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

logic proves that god doesn't exist, because there is no need for god.


fuck god. some bullshit created to control you.

pay now, reward in afterlife?


haha.....great scam. tax shelter too.


Sat, 09/22/2012 - 17:28 | 2820943 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I've always found it ironic (and enlightening) that so many atheists call to Him from their own death beds.

And they had so much faith in their beliefs for all their lives...and lost it at the very end ;-)

Tue, 09/25/2012 - 17:31 | 2829783 SeattleBruce
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"because there is no need for god."

Perhaps you believe in the eternity of matter?  Not really the scope of this blog - but where did you come from, and where are you going, and who cares?  ("Who love you baby?")  Really your vitriol is quite depressing.  Besides,  imho you've got it wrong - there's no 'pay now' - this isn't some kind of transaction - it's LIFE and life to the full, and if you're not doing that now,  it's not going to be rectified in some after life.  Why don't you tell a 10 year old African kid there is no god?  They'll look straight at you and laugh.  But ah no, you know better....well God bless ya Aldous!

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 18:52 | 2819501 Meremortal
Meremortal's picture

Oh, it will be a problem. Property taxes are collected by counties, to pay for education. The teachers' union will not sit quietly by....


And if there's anything that will wake voters up, it's raising their property taxes. You can't pass that off as taxing the rich.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 19:22 | 2819556 JohnKozac
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I thnk the Lord I sold my box in 2009....taxes for -- the new schools, sewer systems, roads, etc --  were endless. I was not at the peak but who cares....the neighborhood has gone downhill and half are rentals now.


Taxes have gone up twice since I sold. House ownership IS NOT what it used to be.

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 05:11 | 2821616 HyperinflatmyNutts
HyperinflatmyNutts's picture

The American dream!! Own your own home was a scam thought up by the Banksters to enslave u in their debt chains.

You end up paying 3x what you bought the house for. Then you DO NOT really own it, because we have to pay the government taxes forever. If you r lucky to sell the house and make a profit here comes good old Uncle Sam to take more money.  You tell me why would anyone want to own a House.  Way better off renting..... better yet lets just abolish the property TAX..

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 19:45 | 2819590 SPAREPARTS
SPAREPARTS's picture

There is some confusion, the list is entirely administrative(Principles and superintendents not teachers) further these are not chicago affiliated but suburban. Teacher union is also inaccurate rather hundreds of unions. Nearly all those listed are paid more  than the mayor of Chicago. These decisions were made at the lowest community level  and everyone in Illinois has wondered why including teachers, how can these sums be justified? many of those named are running one school. Average teacher compensation in Chicago Public School is about 70K, the highest paid with 30 years and two masters degrees is under 100K.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 21:02 | 2819694 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

Are you really that dumb to think property taxes are for education , try a "land pattent" , property taxes are rent because you don't own that they do.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 07:43 | 2819992 Mae Kadoodie
Mae Kadoodie's picture

I'm trying to come up with an acronym for Florida, Utah, California & Kentucky.  Something catchy like PIIGS.  Can anyone help me with this?


Sat, 09/22/2012 - 08:08 | 2820001 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Genital KCUF ?

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 17:12 | 2819323 Kastorsky
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Using actuarial calculations from the Teachers' Retirement System (TRS), Champion News reports that the total estimated pension liability for the top 100 retirees will equal...


Fri, 09/21/2012 - 22:34 | 2819498 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



I figured out why pension fund managers will go along with federal confiscation.  As this article points out, they're way underfunded.  They'll go along with federal government confiscating all the assets in exchange for IOUs (just like they do with social security).  They can shrug their shoulders saying the government took it all, it's not their fault.

No way will pension funds get a bailout.  Assets will be confiscated instead.  Retirees will get a social secuity check more or less, for way less than what they were promised.

How will pension funds get away with it?  Simple, bankruptcy.  Pension funds will quietly bankrupt, wiping out their obligations and turning assets over to the federal government.  Now retirees are the federal government's problem and will be shoehorned into the social security system, benefits determined by their highest 3 quarters just like everyone else. 

State and local govt retirees are chickenshit compared to Wall Street banks who get all the bailout money.  No, their pension fund won't get a bailout, it'll be looted instead.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 23:43 | 2819827 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture


The mechanism is already there waiting for use in the next 10 years as boomers retire en masse . . .

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 07:55 | 2819995 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Which is another off balance sheet monster thats already insolvent.

Current shortfall is over $3t,getting worse with  every year of zirp.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 08:53 | 2820036 centerline
centerline's picture

I agree.  I think at first though there will be some more game playing, higher taxes, bizarre transfers, etc. - with the rug getting pulled out from underneath when the whole municipal budget comes completely unwound.  Of course it is all about cash flow... which is why when the hammer final falls, the whole thing comes down at once.  Just locks up completely and only a bankruptcy will get it moving again.

Hope you don't mind junks though... talking about public sector pensions being vaporized scares a lot of people around here.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 17:56 | 2820976 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



No problem, I'm used to junks.

Yep, truth hurts sometimes.   Those people need to quit living off taxpayers and go get a real job.

...but that's it, they can't get a real job, they have no skills anyone in the private sector would want.

Sitting on their asses drawing a high salary doing nothing productive.  Nope, nobody in the private sector wants that. 

Bloated government will be the downfall of America, and they're part of it, so they're anti-American, working against the best interest of this nation.  They don't care of course, they're some of the most selfish people around the subject article points out.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 10:30 | 2820125 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

This is so spot on I don't even know where to begin. We're all at the mercy of "economic theory" and for some time going forward. In other words only "growth money" can pay for trillion dollar DEFICITS not by simply "tanking the pension plans" and "sticking everyone on SSI." in other words Wall Street has it all certainly do the clowns at the WSJ by "discerning growth in the annihilation of incomes." that approach was an EPIC fail. Right now the Federal Government goes through about 50 billionaires a week New York! Your job is as simple as it is stupid: "create credit growth or wither on the vine." the theory that "there is no one to lend to" is hysertically flawed. You sure lent to your London Whale yes?! Anywho the crux of the problem is that buying trillions in MBS is not the same as buying the real estate itself. It is my contention that in buying the MBS the Fed is in fact lowering the value of the actual real estate as people just go out and borrow more and stay totally illiquid as before. There must be a liquidation in order for the debt to be destroyed. Ideally it is orderly...but rarely is that the case. Now profits are slowing and the War is going parabolic. All resources will now be devoted to either an open policy of expansion or some "withdrawal in force." Illinois is no different under these ONLY two possibilities than Fannie or Freddie Mac. Some type of Government "receivership" followed by non payment of interest as determined under the "odious debt" clauses in US jurisprudence.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 17:22 | 2819336 CheapBastard
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Property Taxes Will Increase 60%



Money has to come from somewhere. 60% is a good start, but it will go much higher. Taxes are one of the joys of owning a house.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 17:52 | 2819393 10mm
10mm's picture

Passed on to the renter.If they can get one.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 19:28 | 2819565 JohnKozac
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Good luck with passing extras on to renters. As I mentioned above, I sold and am renting now. There are so many rentals it's a "Rental Bubble." I told my landlord I want 10% off or I'll move and got it. An empty house for 2 months is a loss for that year for the lord of the estate. Not to mention the costs of cleaning, finding new tenant with good credit, etc.

I owned two properties back in the 1990s and all I can say to all these new landlords is, "Good luck!" Being a landlord is not cracked up to what they say but all these people rushing into that area need to leanr on their own. Some will do fine...many will not.

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 00:06 | 2821386 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



Money has to come from somewhere. 60% is a good start, but it will go much higher.

You're assuming city governments will go on, but that might not be the case much longer. 

City governments aren't needed anymore.  County governments can do everything city governments do, and I believe we'll start seeing some consolidation as city governments bust their budgets and can't come up with the money anymore.

I think state governments will force it, ignoring massive protest from entrenched city government bureaucrats.  The money just ain't there to support that extra layer of government anymore.


Fri, 09/21/2012 - 19:55 | 2819604 Sauk Leader
Sauk Leader's picture

Thanks for the post. So do we take the top 11 or just the top 4 or 5 for a new acronym? We have....



Sat, 09/22/2012 - 08:15 | 2820004 Monedas
Monedas's picture

FROM MY CIN JYNN  ?     Sin Gin ?      That's a hard one to acronymize !

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 14:28 | 2820638 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

It is likely they have some sort of inflation protections. His retirement will likely keep up.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:38 | 2819229 Popo
Popo's picture

If Illinois gets a bailout... this could be Obama's personal Black Swan.   The Romney video confirmed everyone's suspicions about Romney.  But Illiinois being bankrupted by public unions would likewise pretty much confirm everyone's fears about Obama.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:57 | 2819288's picture

I don't care for Romney but I heard nothing untoward in that video.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 17:11 | 2819322 Ham-bone
Ham-bone's picture

"truthiness" in a ponzi is certainly "untoward"...both sides are now back to the bullshitery.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 17:51 | 2819390 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

He's an SOB, but at least he was telling the truth (this time).

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 18:29 | 2819464 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

And generally the ones calling him an SOB are the ones that have a hard time dealing with that truth.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 21:37 | 2819726 gtb
gtb's picture

...and asshole Obama has never come close to speaking the truth...about anything.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 23:18 | 2819806 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

except when he says he wants to be president 

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 07:21 | 2819984 Uncle Sugar
Uncle Sugar's picture

"he wants to play president."


There, fixed it for you.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:08 | 2820181 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

He wants all the millions that come from speaking fees when he's done.  That's all he's ever wanted.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:00 | 2820168 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

oh come on.  He talked about hope and change, ppl hoped that something would change for the better... Obama didn't say anything about change for the better.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:12 | 2820187 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

It was an "Anybody but Bush/Republicans" election and people got the government they deserved.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 18:21 | 2819446 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

What has and is happening in California, New York, Illinois, and other typically democratic run state's budgets is what Romney has pointed out. Deficit spending is ruining our collective future.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 19:19 | 2819544 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

The piece seems to be avoiding the reason behind the pension fund's problems, that it was mismanaged by malinvestment in shaky derivatives.

From the piece:

"Some financial firms, in this instance mostly investment banks, were able to convince some state governments to invest their pension funds into complex and risky investments. Among these risky investments were derivatives, whose values have either already imploded or sit in the pension’s portfolio as potential bombs.

The author likened these risky investments sold to pension managers to the subprime loans with low teaser rates with which predatory lenders conned millions of homeowners. The analogy is that lenders told potential home buyers about the low introductory rates but glossed over how much the rates could jump in the future and what it would mean to future payments. Investment banks told pension fund managers (who are often pressured by their state to meet certain investment return benchmarks) how adding derivatives would boost their returns in the short term but glossed over the large potential losses that could occur if certain events occurred in the future. The ‘certain event’ depends on what the derivative was but some of these events have already happened or are likely to happen in the future are hurting state pensions.

Lastly, just as the private companies ended up placing the scapegoat label on their retirees and employees, some states are starting to see the government (as well as some groups + organizations)  putting the same label on the public employees and public retirees. In my home state, Illinois, some powerful groups and organizations are placing an inordinate amount of the blame of our state’s financial woes on the “greedy” teachers and other public workers."

In other words, while blaming teachers becomes popular here and elsewhere, few are mentioning how the money--more than enough--WAS there before it got mismanaged.

Be sure that you know the whole story about the Illinois pension funds before you start blaming public sector unions just because you hate the fact that they exist.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 19:54 | 2819601 nufio
nufio's picture

Its not that banks convince state governments into buying crap. They are all IN on it.  you make pension fund managers to be innocent people who were tricked by the banks. They all get huge paychecks for stealing from the 30k pensioned teacher and the $26 million retiree administrators.

What the teachers should really be doing is to separate out the unions for the teaching staff from the administrative staff. Even though i dont know much about the topic, I would hazard a guess that most of the union leaders are also from the administrative staff.


Fri, 09/21/2012 - 21:09 | 2819693 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

How do I present the fund managers as innocent in all of this? I do not intend to and say "mismanagement."

It's all the rage, don'tcha know. It's going on everywhere. It's basically theft in my book.

I teach community college in the greater Atlanta area. I've got news for you: Teaching is hard work. College teachers, for the most part, make far less than high school teachers. And I wouldn't be a high school teacher for anything in the world. Would you?

Here's a good piece where you can see the progressive failure of the Illinois funds. The problems do go back a long way, and this piece avoids my point about the swindling involved in the CDs that were pushed on the fund by banksters (and, yes, accepted by the mismanagement):

Administrators at my college "mismanaged" the college's funds, so many of us lost our jobs, got cut back, etc.

But back to the point about poor teachers: The system in general is flawed (everyone knows this), and the point of the system itself is not so much to educate kids as it is to create worker drones, obedient to authority, mindless. Teachers who actually try to fight the uphill battle for education, critical thought, etc, are lambasted by administration, parents, and students.

For those of you who missed it, here's a story on the Atlanta public school scandal (testing cheating by officials) from very recent history:

The kids we get out of most of the high school systems around here are severely undereducated. Of course, the suburban counties do a much better job, generally, but they're still not where they should be for college, often. We do get some high school students still in hs, in a "joint enrollment" program, and those students are the cream of the crop, generally excellent, almost all from the very white, suburban areas.

So the job everyone expects out of inner city teachers is simply beyond them to do. The communities do not, generally, help teach kids at home. Homework is increasingly anathema. The schools are like prisons. The general environment is crummy. Throwing money at it doesn't fix it. But for those of you who want to hurl blame at teachers, I would dare say that you are falling into a bankster-devised, divide-and-conquer scheme. How many of you would take those jobs? Are they such overpaid, rosy positions that you are ready to teach in an inner city school like one in Atlanta or Shitcago? If the salaries get high, believe me, there is a market factor at work. The good teachers would face farther drives and worse conditions to teach inner city, so the inner city districts often HAVE to offer more pay. Why else would someone do it for twenty or thirty years when he or she could make the same pay teaching at a safe, suburban school, with a more comfortable demographic, with parents who actually want kids to learn and have some moral code, etc?

More on the Atlanta cheating scandal, I think, will drive the point home a bit further:

Here's another one (below) detailing the problems teachers faced from administrations (threats, abusive behavior, ridicule) and a fantastic quote from one fourth-grade teacher: "I had to give them the answers, those kids were dumb as hell."

Please don't think I'm endorsing cheating. It's horrible. But these systems are broken. If you think you can work within the system to help improve the kids who will become our future, feel free to jump right in instead of throwing shit on hard-working, pressured teachers:

Disclosure: I don't have kids, but if I did, I'd home school them. Teaching college for almost twenty years has shown me how completely the public school system is failing our kids in droves. The problem is more systemic and cultural than it is bad, greedy teachers (though I'm sure there are plenty of those).

Feel free to stand up and work to improve this system. It's not like it's important or anything, right? It's a heck of a lot easier to anonymously post crap on a blog like this, blaming public sector unions.

You think it's a mess now? Wait until there's no one left to even try in our inner cities. Then see where you are. Good luck with that one.


Fri, 09/21/2012 - 22:57 | 2819787 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Urban Congoids aren't anyones' "future". Not even their own. Rahm's Tribe has demoralized and dumbed them out for a reason: to be used as stormtroopers against the Whites. Chicago? the next Detroit. Illinois? the next Zimbabwe. Soon to be followed by the rest of Amerikwa.   

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 00:38 | 2819860 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Ha, I'm no Rahm fan, but blaming it all on him is stupid indeed.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 05:31 | 2819956 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Meh... he said Rahm Tribe

tribe - to refer to societies organized largely on the basis of kinship especially corporate descent groups

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 08:25 | 2820013 Monedas
Monedas's picture

They should have parked the space shuttle Endeavour near south Chicago .... to stimulate and inspire promising young black minds !     "A mind is a terrible thing to waste !"    Think of the grafitti it would inspire ?

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:16 | 2820199 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

Administrators bargain for their salaries and set the precedents for the teachers.  They work hand-in-glove this way.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 21:33 | 2819722 Blankenstein
Blankenstein's picture



"Be sure that you know the whole story about the Illinois pension funds "


From the Chicago Tribune:


"Chicago's public pension funds are teetering on the brink of insolvency in large part because city officials and union leaders repeatedly exploited the system, draining away billions of dollars in the last decade to serve short-term political needs, a Tribune investigation has found.

Time and again, the funds have been used as a bargaining chip or a piggy bank. Politicians trimmed budgets by offering early retirement incentives and greased union contract deals with increases in benefits. "Pension holidays" allowed the city to avoid paying into workers' retirement funds."



Sat, 09/22/2012 - 00:39 | 2819862 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

"City officials" and "union leaders" are not teachers, generally--certainly not the bulk of them--the folks everyone here wants to blame.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 03:36 | 2819923 Blankenstein
Blankenstein's picture

These promises with big pay and pension increases were to buy the votes of the TEACHERS, not just the union leaders.  They would keep voting for these scallywags as long as the promises kept coming.  The city would have had to cut numerous services, programs, etc. if they hadn't kicked the can down the road for so long with creative accounting and other trickery.  The politicians went as far as passing laws to lower the required level of funding for the pensions.  The teachers didn't care to check whether it was feasible or not and the union leaders just wanted to keep their cushy jobs with huge paychecks and pensions.  The teachers wouldn't be in this predicament if they hadn't kept voting for the politicians who created this disaster.    

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 08:27 | 2820015 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Clash Fan, are you an aide to Rom Immanuel ?

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 15:00 | 2820718 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

?? The problems started long before he got there.

I am no fan of the current Shitcago mayor, period. Not in any way, shape, or form.

Is that clear enough?


Sat, 09/22/2012 - 08:57 | 2820040 Sofa King Confused
Sofa King Confused's picture

All these things,  Pension Funds, 401k's, and all Retirement Plans were all set up not so much as to help you with retirement, but, so they can charge you fees and make money off your money.  Most have very limited choices to invest in.  Probably 95% dont beat just investing in the S & P.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 15:02 | 2820724 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

The choices are very limited indeed.

Only one of our three vendors had a precious metals--er, mining--option, so I took the miners from that vendor, thinking I was making a wise choice. Of course, a lot of that money went into iron ore mining, much to my chagrin, and it performed the worst of my three choices. First one I liquidated when they bumped me back to part time.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 08:16 | 2820005 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

Zombocracy.  Illinois is the nation's Biggest Zombocracy followed by California.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 01:53 | 2819893 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Derivatives aren't to blame for the pension mess.  A system of corrupt public officials and pension administrators who are allowed to thrive thanks to a corrupt public accounting code are to blame.  The US has had over a DECADE OF ZIRP, and yet pensions are allowed to assume an 8% return until hell freezes over.  The baseline for pension returns should be treasury yields, since one's pension is supposed to be "safe" there is no way to squeeze an extra 500 pips out of treasury yields "safely", unless you consider MASSIVE leverage to be safe.  These are money management 101 level basics, even the quota monkeys should know it backwards and forwards.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 09:14 | 2820047 centerline
centerline's picture

This is really all about the end game of current fiat system.  The massive fraud,  malinvestment, etc. is all part of the landscape now as both cause and effect depending on how one views the world.  The teachers and other public employees are yet another group in the divide and conquer scheme.  Public versus private per se.

In the end, when the system fails, blame will have been passed onto the people as much as the politicians.  Public sector folks clamoring for anything is just the tip of the iceberg.  Eventually the pain will be enough that most people in general will be crying for money printing... damn the consequences... and the fingerprint of the people will be on the printing press "on" button.  How convenient.  The icing on the cake is how people will argue amongst themselves about how is responsible... black versus white, class against class, private versus public...


Sat, 09/22/2012 - 15:03 | 2820730 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Centerline, that's pretty much what my point is.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:40 | 2819234 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Cut education adminstration staffing by half, reduce adminstrator compensation by half, and eliminate double dipping - collecting pensions in one state while working in another.

The start of real educattion reform.

Oh, freeze teacher salaries and benefits at the same time.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:51 | 2819269 imbtween
imbtween's picture

That's not reform! I thought the goal was to make schools more competitive and "run like a business". That means increase the salaries of administration to at least 300 times the lowest paid worker, cut staff to increase productivity, shorten the day, and make sure every insider gets a huge bonus at the end of the year.

And really, 8 billion deficit? LOL! Chump change. The Bernank has given 2000x that to his buddies. Hedging at an $8bn bailout for a state would be high tragicomedy indeed. Just get this shit overwith and give free fake money to everyone!

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 17:21 | 2819339 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

why even have an education system anyway?  just give out degrees to the highest bidders (debtors)... that's the end result anyway - sign for a big ass forever loan and get your deploma and a kick into the streets

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 17:58 | 2819404 JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

"Cut education adminstration staffing by half..."

Don't you mean "in half"?

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 18:23 | 2819451 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

Eye sea woot U deed their.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 19:03 | 2819521 MiltonFriedmans...
MiltonFriedmansNightmare's picture

Oh yeah, and one more thing, teach teacher's to teach.

Maybe that's too much too ask.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 20:00 | 2819619 SPAREPARTS
SPAREPARTS's picture

Wow, where do your children go?

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 19:57 | 2819609 SPAREPARTS
SPAREPARTS's picture

Teachers would like that, the management of the schools at least in larger systems is where the fault lies,

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:52 | 2819272 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

That's not a union, it's a gang. 

The corruption is spreading, the end is nigh. 

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:58 | 2819291's picture

The beginning is nigh.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 17:25 | 2819345 PAWNMAN
PAWNMAN's picture



Fri, 09/21/2012 - 23:46 | 2819828 Almost Solvent
Almost Solvent's picture

Pants McPants would tell you to go first, idiot. 

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 08:32 | 2820020 Monedas
Monedas's picture

Shariah law stoning for anyone who ever utters the words "underpaid public servants" again !    Never again !   Jamas - never period !

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 17:45 | 2819358 LMAOLORI
LMAOLORI's picture




Five-Million-Dollar Pensions Enjoyed by Illinois State Cops


Public Employee's are insider's and they vote themselve's the purse which is why they are different from other unions. In a private union the employe pays for the majority of the plan with the employer making a contribution based on a private contract. Private Union's don't get to hold taxpayers hostage and pay themselve's more then the people paying their salaries (taxpayers) like public employee's do.


The Trouble with Public Sector Unions


Even President Franklin Roosevelt, a friend of private-sector unionism, drew a line when it came to government workers: "Meticulous attention," the president insisted in 1937, "should be paid to the special relations and obligations of public servants to the public itself and to the Government....The process of collective bargaining, as usually understood, cannot be transplanted into the public service." 

In WI for example Taxpayers make far less then public employee's. In a private union when the fund faces upcoming challenges they cut the benefits and change the rules but public employee's think they are above that. This is going on nationwide. When Gov. Walker put some common sense in place (WI pension fund is the 9th largest) they bussed in union activists from all over. Then residents were forced to pay millions to vote again and they are still fighting it.  


California Bankruptcies Shield Retirees, Not Bondholders

Report: Multi-Million Dollar California Pension Fraud

Thousands of current public employees have been retired and were rehired. They collect government paychecks as well as pension payouts -- sometimes known as "double dipping." The state's eight largest newspapers collaborated to produce this special report on the problems of Ohio's publicly funded pension programs.

This has to stop screw Illinois or any state that thinks the rest of America should bail them out why should your children and grandchildren pay to bail them out with interest.


Fri, 09/21/2012 - 17:38 | 2819370 bxy
bxy's picture

Codell is/was my ex-wife's boss.....they have the cushiest set up goin.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 17:46 | 2819382 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Pension heist. Same as the private sector. Un freaking believable that teachers get 17% raise over 4 yrs. VZ just got 2%.


Fri, 09/21/2012 - 19:34 | 2819574 JohnKozac
JohnKozac's picture

Federal workers earning double their private counterparts



By Dennis Cauchon, USA TODAY At a time when workers' pay and benefits have stagnated, federal employees' average compensation has grown to more than double what private sector workers earn, a USA TODAY analysis finds.

Federal workers have been awarded bigger average pay and benefit increases than private employees for nine years in a row. The compensation gap between federal and private workers has doubled in the past decade.

Federal civil servants earned average pay and benefits of $123,049 in 2009 while private workers made $61,051 in total compensation, according to the Bureau of Economic Analysis. The data are the latest available.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 22:49 | 2819782 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



Federal workers earning double their private counterparts

Another reason currency collapse will be a good thing.

When the US dollar is worthless, everybody makes the same, zero.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 08:03 | 2819999 pelican
pelican's picture

Have you tried to live in DC or Northern VA as a federal worker?  It is so expensive to live in this fucking area.  My wife and I are both professionals and we cannot afford to own here.  I am so tired of hearing about what people's income is. Lets talk about what people own because they inherited it.  When professionals cannot afford to live, yet the inherited aristrocratic loafers have nice homes, cars and money, something is fucking wrong.

Jefferson was correct about the unnatural aristrocacy.





Sat, 09/22/2012 - 08:31 | 2820019 BooMushroom
BooMushroom's picture

Your household compensation is a quarter million annually, and you can't afford a mortgage? WTF?

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 09:31 | 2820056 centerline
centerline's picture

Especially over the 20 years where bullshitting and risk taking trumped actual productive, educated, professional (and non-professional) work.  Now, fraud and theft are the norm.  It's gonna get uglier too.  And then it is going to break.  What a shame.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 12:33 | 2820357 fiftybagger
fiftybagger's picture

Wow people.  Did you hear what your typical gubbermint worker thinks?  He's a "profeshional" but cannot afford to buy a home sucking down your tax dollars at the public trough.  So his solution is to CONFISCATE other people's money because they are rich "aristocrats".  Be afraid, be very afraid.  Because this type of communist isn't even shy about stating what he really believes anymore.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 23:03 | 2819795 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Well no wonder private sector hacks like USA Today reporters can't make any money.  Their math sucks.  Just kidding, I know it's raw propaganda.  But since this is ZH, might as well mock bad math anyway.

Try this study on for size:


We found that the average of total compensation was about 36 percent higher for federal employees than for their private-sector counterparts among workers with no more than a high school education, was about 15 percent higher among workers with a bachelor’s degree, and was about 18 percent lower among workers with a professional degree or Ph.D. Overall, total compensation for federal employees was about 16 percent higher, on average, than total compensation for measurably similar workers in the private sector.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 07:09 | 2819980 geoffb
geoffb's picture

Nice cherry picking there, from the same link.


"we found that the average cost of benefits was about 72 percent higher for federal employees than for their private-sector counterparts among workers with no more than a high school education, was about 46 percent higher in the federal sector among workers with a bachelor’s degree, and was about the same in the two sectors among workers with a professional degree or Ph.D. Overall, federal benefits were about 48 percent higher, on average, than the benefits received by measurably similar private-sector workers."

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 23:07 | 2819799 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture


Sat, 09/22/2012 - 00:19 | 2819846 brettd
brettd's picture

For the love of Pete:  You could could cut fed salaries 30% across the board and have people lined up around the block for those jobs!  Unemployment is over 8%.  Yeesh.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 05:42 | 2819958 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Ahhh... you could cut federal JOBS by 80% and have no one lined up. There fixed it for you.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 08:15 | 2820003 pelican
pelican's picture

Bullshit.  I live in the DC area and I left the Federal sector because it paid so much less then private sector.  In this area I make more working for a corporation. 


However, when you are talking about higher level Feds, such as SES, then yoiu are talking money.  They get bonuses (yes, feds get cash bonuses).  However, most of the bonus money only goes to the high level SES.

Then the next scam is when a SES retires, they come back as a contractor and still paid from the agency.  So they collect a pension and contractor fees.


However federal employees to get other perks, long lunches, an insane amount of vacation (so many cubes empty), and the ability to sleep in the office.

Also, Feds are union.  It is almost impossible to fire one who has been around a few years.


The system is so broken and corrupt.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 08:37 | 2820022 Monedas
Monedas's picture

It's much worse than that !    Job security, peace of mind, smugness bragging rights !   Go through your neighborhoods and mark all public employee's homes with pig's blood .... especially librarians !

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 19:06 | 2819525 Town Crier
Town Crier's picture

Add his name to the list to be prosecuted for High Treason.


Fri, 09/21/2012 - 19:56 | 2819607 SilverDOG
SilverDOG's picture


Fri, 09/21/2012 - 21:30 | 2819717 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

I wish I had a pension like that.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:33 | 2819215 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

Please provide a credible source. 

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:43 | 2819244 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Well said and understood. It was in the MSM for the masses to see in a 'heavier than normal' volume today than what was seen in the past regarding US banks.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 17:00 | 2819280 Kitler
Kitler's picture

          By Jim Finkle and Rick Rothacker Fri Sep 21, 2012 2:19pm EDT

(Reuters) - Iranian hackers have repeatedly attacked Bank of America Corp (BA.N), JPMorgan Chase & Co (JPM.N) and Citigroup Inc (C.N) over the past year, as part of a broad cyber campaign targeting the United States, according to people familiar with the situation.

Yup... no possible bias in this story. Finally... PROOF that our brave and selfless banksters are under attack by the EVIL Iranians!

FORWARD to the gunboats good Christian soldiers!

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 17:04 | 2819301's picture

Conventional wisdom says that Americans are civilized human beings and Iranians are animals who live in caves but in this case we see the reverse as the Iranians have allegedly used high tech to confront the bankers while the occupiers in Zucotti Park more properly looked the part of cave dwellers.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 19:17 | 2819539 Yardfarmer
Yardfarmer's picture not only perceptive but hilarious!

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 17:30 | 2819350 Row Well Number 41
Row Well Number 41's picture

WOuld make a great excuse for a bank holiday.


Fri, 09/21/2012 - 21:24 | 2819708 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

Depositor to Bankster:  Why is my account balance 0?

Bankster:  An Iranian hacker using the alias Jon Corzine ate your account.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 08:18 | 2820007 pelican
pelican's picture

It is impossible to track the origin of a good hacker.  Perhaps somone is attacking those institutions through Iran proxies.



Fri, 09/21/2012 - 18:56 | 2819509 mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture


Please provide a credible source.

Please change your fucking handle and avatar.

How many ZHers even remember who RoboTrader was, now?

Ah, I do kind of miss him.  Smarter than AnAnonymous, and more responsive than MDB.

ZH is changing, my brothers.


Sat, 09/22/2012 - 01:07 | 2819875 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Me! Me!  I do!  Sigh... they come and they go but the BS remains.

Wait.  Hey, that would be me.  I'll have to rethink that.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:39 | 2819233 10mm
10mm's picture

If they can make ones balance completley vanish,"Allah Akbar".

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 19:09 | 2819528 Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

HBS, that piece says, "The attacks on the three largest U.S. banks originated in Iran, but it is not clear if they were launched by the state, groups working on behalf of the government, or "patriotic" citizens, according to the sources, who requested anonymity as they were not authorized to discuss the matter."

Couldn't be the CIA or something similar, right? Right? I mean, it's not like they want an excuse for further "regulation" of the internet, right?

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 20:05 | 2819571 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

Agreed, the MSM puts this to Iran, whether reality or propaganda who knows. What one should focus on is that this activity is being discussed and confirmed as having happened. The Reuters article discusses that these are denial of service attacks which are mostly harmless but that those attacks may be cover for something more malicious. This raises the specter of the possibility that bank accounts read zero some morning.

In the spirit of Andy Grove, "Only the paranoid survive."

On another note: my apologies to the board for grabbing pole position on an off topic post. The relevance, if any, is if zeroing of bank accounts does happen as a result of a banking system virus from enemy or other (coughfalseflagcough), that will result in the mother of all bailouts.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 08:01 | 2819998 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture


That's so when they (banksters) steal all our $$$, they can blame it on Iran.

WMD, Weapons of (MSM) Destruction.

Support Israels war.....any excuse will work.

As far as THIS article goes, Illinois can "promise" them anything, they don't have money to pay anyone.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:25 | 2819184 pods
pods's picture

The pension funds are running into the laws of mathematics and what happens when exponential growth stops.

Coming soon everywhere.


Fri, 09/21/2012 - 18:19 | 2819204 Rainman
Rainman's picture

When growth stops they can hike return expectations to 12%.....smoothing out the peaks and mostly valleys. That should zirp, huh ?

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 23:29 | 2819814 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

Good call Rainman, you've got it.   Suzie Orman says they'll be able to dollar cost average.  That's all you really need.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 23:29 | 2819815 Antifaschistische
Antifaschistische's picture

Good call Rainman, you've got it.   Suzie Orman says they'll be able to dollar cost average.  That's all you really need.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 17:15 | 2819326 dbomb12
dbomb12's picture

The Goose That Laid the Golden Egg
An Aesop Fable


       A man and his wife owned a very special goose. Every day the goose would lay a golden egg, which made the couple very rich.

      "Just think," said the man's wife, "If we could have all the golden eggs that are inside the goose, we could be richer much faster."

      "You're right," said her husband, "We wouldn't have to wait for the goose to lay her egg every day."

      So, the couple killed the goose and cut her open, only to find that she was just like every other goose. She had no golden eggs inside of her at all, and they had no more golden eggs.

A very prophetic fable I think

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 21:55 | 2819739's picture

You gotta love a fable the moral of which is the perniciousness of high time preference. There's nothing new under the sun.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 23:28 | 2819812 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

but there's a lot more leaders affected by the moon

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 22:14 | 2819763 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

Good thing for the pension fund managers that the pensioners are too fucking lazy and stupid to care until it's absolutely too late ... aaaaaand it's gone.

Hearing "but it's my money!" from a recently Corzined individual will never, ever get old.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:26 | 2819185 Vincent Vega
Vincent Vega's picture

Illinois will ask for a bailout as will California and Nevada. So the question is: should they be referred to as INC's, NIC's, or CIN's?

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:33 | 2819210 global
global's picture

Texas is likely there too.  If Utah could join the party I'm sure someone could think up a clever acronym

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:43 | 2819249 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Texas doesn't even have state taxes, it will be a very long time until they have to go to the Federal government begging.  Too many internal options.

States like California and Illinois getting bailed out is not politically possible and even an attempt will touch off a firestorm. Not gonna happen, too much of the rest of the country would rather see them stew in their own sewage for that to ever fly.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:47 | 2819261 Vincent Vega
Vincent Vega's picture

Agree with you re Texas.  CA and IL vote Dem....if they ever need it; they will get it.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:52 | 2819271 Agent P
Agent P's picture

QE3.1 - Fed to buy munis, including pension bonds...count on it.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 18:26 | 2819457 you enjoy myself
you enjoy myself's picture

that's the scary part - they will indeed do that along with never-ending tbond purchases once twist ends.  unless Romney can somehow put an end to Ben's madness, we'll be printing $100B a month soon enough.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:53 | 2819274 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

The rest of the country is never going to allow such a thing.  If that went through it would then make sense for every state to overspend as much and as quickly as possible which would blow things apart rather quickly as our current federal deficits double and triple.

There aren't enough of them to ram it through, the rest of the states would go nuts.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:55 | 2819282 Vincent Vega
Vincent Vega's picture

You mean overspend like Congress does? The paper tiger will be fed, book it. (until it all comes crashing down of course).

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 18:26 | 2819450 smiler03
smiler03's picture

Texas isn't that healthy. There was a recent ZH article showing US states by debtor/creditor regarding Government spending. Texas was like California on the map, very much in the red. 

I did find this:

Debt crisis: Is Texas 'America's Ireland'? Everybody knows about California's fiscal woes, but why isn't anybody talking about the huge crisis looming in the Lone Star State?

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 20:39 | 2819669 Blano
Blano's picture

Don't suppose you looked at the date of that article did ya???

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 17:50 | 2819389 ultraticum
ultraticum's picture

Did the American electorate suddenly wake up and get a clue?

And, did the Fed suddenly have to start opening up it's books on whom they bail out?  What about the $16 trillion in secret that went to foreign banks?

When was the last time the States "went nuts" over anything, post civil war?

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 10:19 | 2820102 MiltonFriedmans...
MiltonFriedmansNightmare's picture

You are correct sir. The sheeple will not be awakened from their slumber.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 18:25 | 2819454 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

You are so wrong.  A very small town in the smallest state in the Union, Rhode Island, went bankrupt.  All of the public unions are absolutely bullshit saying it isn't their fault, it is the politicians fault even though their unions made sure their guys got elected.  Everyone is aware of this.  However the State stepped in, threw out the elected officials, and appointed a receiver.  The receiver looks at what is coming in and what the town can afford and lays out Reality.  The unions start screaming that it is taxation without representation and that elected officials need to decide government contracts.  The battle continues but where does it end because the public unions will always back someone that is going to pay and why shouldn't they.  Wisconsin had the right idea but the unions are just too powerful and the country will collapse before they are finished and then they will again look around and say that it wasn't their fault just the politicians.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 17:58 | 2819401 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

TX doesn't have state taxes but they damn sure make up for it on property taxes.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 08:49 | 2820032 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

"States like California and Illinois getting bailed out is not politically possible and even an attempt will touch off a firestorm. Not gonna happen, too much of the rest of the country would rather see them stew in their own sewage for that to ever fly."

Bullshit. What spaceship did you just step off from? It will be turned into a panic similar to 2008 and those who need bailed out will be bailed out. This whole bailout thing continues until those bailing out are just as fucking broke as those getting bailed out. At that point, all real wealth will be in the black market. That's when the real fun begins.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:26 | 2819186 Dubaibanker
Dubaibanker's picture

Bailout is another word for the American style socialism....

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 19:30 | 2819324 foodstampbarry
foodstampbarry's picture

Plenty of capitalism left in America, it's called -  The people who aren't connected economy.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 21:32 | 2819721 John_Coltrane
John_Coltrane's picture

Bailout and debt are the MEANS for establishing fabian socialism and one world government.  Never confuse the end with the means.

For a fascist/statist the end justifies the means.  (Lenin)

For a liberatarian the means determine the end. 


Fri, 09/21/2012 - 23:48 | 2819831 dbomb12
dbomb12's picture

Socialism explained from the book of Ecclesiastes Chapter 2 vs 21

For there exists the man whose hard work has been with wisdom and with knowledge and with proficiency, but to a man that has not worked hard at such a thing will be given the portion of that one. This too is vanity and a big calamity.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 11:36 | 2820235 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

Yeah, Bailout has a better ring to it than Welfare.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:29 | 2819188 Seditious Blasphemer
Seditious Blasphemer's picture

This. Is. Zerohedge.

It's not "Quid pro quo"..

It's " Quid pro quo BITCHEZ!"

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:28 | 2819192 Cult_of_Reason
Cult_of_Reason's picture

Re: Is Illinois Preparing To Request A Federal Bailout?

Yes, but only after the elections.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 22:11 | 2819759 Slightly Insane
Slightly Insane's picture

I think that the outcome of the elections will determine whether a "bailout" will even be tabeled.  If Obama get's a second term, then I would bet a bailout (partial) happens.  If Romney get's the job, I think that it may be a toss up.

(Just my gut opinion).  I also think that "after elections" ... an increase in the state income tax (IL - already at 5% - which was retroactive to the beginning of the calendar year when Pat Quinn took the office), will probably get raised, as well as an increase in property taxes.  It won't be favorable for the democrats, and since they don't wish to alienate the largely democratic voters in Chicago ... they will wait until the elections are over before delivering the news.  I'm pretty sure that more taxpayers are leaving the state then coming into it.  The state is pretty well screwed until they can get these spendthrifts out of office all across the state.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:28 | 2819193 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

The good ol Dollarzone...

Greece is the smallest state in the Eurozone and its in the biggest trouble.

California is the biggest state in the Dollarzone and its in the biggest trouble.


Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:30 | 2819197 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

Must  hold  it  together  till  Nov  6th.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 18:10 | 2819421 Rentenmark
Rentenmark's picture

Especially in IL where the state legislature is known for passing unfavorable legislation during their lame duck sessions.  Last time they passed the income tax hike.  My guess is gambling expansion and pension reform coming before the end of January.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 19:45 | 2819588 Ineverslice
Ineverslice's picture


                The  F o r c e  is strong with this one.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!