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PIIGS In America: Is Illinois Preparing To Request A Federal Bailout?
Moments ago we saw the following amusing headline crossing the BBG:
- ILLINOIS TEACHERS' PENSION FUND CUTS RATE OF RETURN TO 8% FROM 8.5%
It's amusing because these are the same teachers who were demanding, and received, higher pay - 17% higher over four years in fact - following a several day strike. It is even more amusing considering that in a fiscal year in which we saw QE2, Operation Twist 1 and 2, and LTRO 1 and 2, the nation's largest pension fund, Calpers, managed to eek out a measly 1% gain (and this is including the end of June surge following the then announced European bailout which turned out to be yet another dud). It is, however sadly, most amusing, because it may be a harbinger of something truly sad: the advent of the "PIIG bailout" to America, when a US state demands a Federal bailout. We have seen how eager Europe has been to bailout its insolvent nations. We are next about to see just how "united" the US is when its own solidarity is tested as state after state repeat the European bailout experience. But hey: at least we have the dollar so all should be well.
From the WSJ:
Now that Chicago's children have returned to not learning in school, we can all move on to the next crisis in Illinois public finance: unfunded public pensions. Readers who live in the other 49 states will be pleased to learn that Governor Pat Quinn's 2012 budget proposal already floated the idea of a federal guarantee of its pension debt. Think Germany and eurobonds for Greece, Italy and Spain.
Thank you for sharing, Governor.
...
Illinois now has some $8 billion in current debts outstanding and taxpayers are on the hook for more than $200 billion in unfunded retirement costs for government workers. By some estimates, the system could be the first in the nation to go broke, as early as 2018.
For years, states have engaged in elaborate accounting tricks to improve appearances, including using an unrealistically high 8% "discount" rate to account for future liabilities. To make that fairy tale come true, state pension funds would have to average returns of 8% a year, which even the toothless Government Accounting Standards Board and Moody's have said are unrealistic.
The city is already facing upwards of a $1 billion deficit next year with hundreds of millions of dollars in annual pension costs for retired teachers coming due. But despite the fiscal imperatives, the negotiation didn't even discuss pensions. The final deal gave unions a more than 17% raise over four years, while they keep benefits and pensions that workers in the wealth-creating private economy can only imagine.
As a political matter, public unions are pursuing a version of the GM strategy: Never make a concession at the state level, figuring that if things get really bad the federal government will have no political choice but to bail out the pensions if not the entire state. Mr. Quinn made that official by pointing out in his budget proposal that "significant long-term improvements" in the state pension debt will come from "seeking a federal guarantee of the debt."
So when the time comes to bail out Chicago we can just tell America's insolvent state(s), who will soon pursue the MAD strategy of Europe's PIIGS, to demand a bailout with the ECB. We are confident the ECB will be more than happy to comply: after all quite soon Mario Draghi will realize that his goal should be to push the EUR down not up, and taking on more and more bailouts and money printing is precisely what he should be doing to once again retake the lead in the global FX race to debase.
After all, as it was already made clear earlier, Obama's promise in exchange for European votes, is to bail out Europe. It is only fair that Europe reciprocate after the election.
Quid pro quo.
And now: the End of the Beniverse
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Time to RAISE the STATE TAXES to pay for this spending.
Don't worry, death taxes, VAT, and digital only money transactions taxed at 15% on the way.
You must mean on top of the 67% "temporary" (cough...bullshit...cough) tax increase we got last year here in Illinois.
Illinois just raised income taxes (for those who pay) by 67% and corporate taxes by 45% and now.... it's gone. Mayor Ballerina just agreed to $$ for votes raise of 17% with the teachers union teachers (hard to call them teachers really, the kids learn nothing) he stated that without drastic fiscal changes he would have to raise property taxes by 150%.
When you toss in the 50+ shootings every week and the unreported flash mob attacks on the "Mag" mile - this place is turning into a real hell-hole.
Smart people are fleeing the state of IL. Chicago is quite possibly the next Detroit.
Yep, I left Illinois 5 months ago....
indeed. I got a sister who wants to leave desperately.
Chicago the next Detroit? Possibly but trust me they have a ways to go before getting to Detroit's level
that's what exponential curves are for
Well Chicago has the murder rate already going for it.Rest will follow at a later date.
Yeah, but the Rickett's are doing quite well.
Serf City Here We Come....................2 cents for every boy...................
"Pigs...in...spaaaaace!"
PIIG Pro Quo
Didn't they just agree to pay teachers more?
Who is this they you talk about?? I don't recall being asked my opinion on the matter - ever.
Chicago agreed to pay more, but the Chicago teachers are somewhat independent of the rest of the state (not totally as the state really pays for sink-hole chicago). Teachers outside the city are state employees and thus their pensions are covered by the state government. Which, by the way, is likely to change after the election as they have been debating "pension reform".
The rumored pension reform is to return the pensions to the local school districts. So the state says we are broke, you locals figure it out! Unfortunately, the locals don't have money set aside to pay for this. Most school funding comes from your property tax in IL, so my guess is there will be some serious property tax increases coming.
Property tax rates around the city and suburbs (not sure about downstate) can be between 2% to 4%. It is not uncommon to see a $300k house with a tax bill of $8k to S10k. There will be many more unhappy residents.
Needless to say, I am no longer a resident of IL.
It is not uncommon to see a $300k house with a tax bill of $8k to S10k.
Seriously? I thought my small UK house @ £1000/$1624/year was expensive.
You should consider that I am British and according to http://www.zerohedge.com/users/akak who has a blank biography, I am:
"arrogant, police-state-and-fiat loving piece of Eurotrash"
http://www.zerohedge.com/news/golden-cross-gold-and-silver-signals-further-gains#comment-2816417
C'mon, we here in north Texas already have those rates. $400,000 house, $12,000 per year property taxes.
??? I sold my house in Illinois for $175k and was paying over $8,000 in property taxes.
And yet... Americans actually think they own property. Pretty funny.
I could totally see that. I have a friend trapped in a far suburb where home values crashed hard and is very nearly in the same situation.
Before we moved out of state, we looked at short sales in very nice neighborhoods that could be had for $400k or less, but you'd be stuck with the $16k tax bill. The thought of $1500 per month in taxes to support corruption and unions lead to my decision to flee the state.
Paying $1500 a month to live in your own house... hahaha, that's just comedy right there.
this article is ass-backwards. lowering the rate of return, I assume this is their estimate used to discount future cash flows, will give the appearance (but not certainty) that a pension fund is underfunded. These are very longlived funds and are discounted over 20+ years, if not longer.
this article seems to want ot incite that IL is on the brink of insolvency. I highly doubt that on a cash flow basis IL is anywhere near needing federal govt guarantees or outright purchases/direct funding via the Fed. youre a little early.
...will it be found to be in the Fed's ability to buy municipal debt (secured by IL taxes) just like it buys Treasury debt (secured by all citizens taxes)? probably.
"The future's so bright, I gotta' wear shades."
Take those rose colored glasses off, you are about to walk into a utility pole.
Uh, they are insolvent......... the vendor that supplies ammo to their prison system cut them off for nonpayment after being delinquent for more than six months.
Very possible but your source is?
.
"As WBBM Newsradio’s Regine Schlesinger reports, officially, the state has a backlog of more than $4.25 billion in unpaid bills."
"But Illinois State Comptroller Judy Baar Topinka says when one factors in other bills, the figure is closer to around $8.5 billion."
http://chicago.cbslocal.com/2012/01/19/topinka-illinois-unpaid-bill-cris...
When I was a teenager I got a temp job paying invoices for the State of IL. You read that correctly. Teenagers are "responsible" for paying the bills, or were.
I learned: 1) I belong in the private sector, and 2) never to sell anything to the government, as one is likely to get paid 9 months late (if at all).
The Banana Republics I deal with pay faster than that, and USD$ aren't always easy for them to come by (since they only receive Banana Bucks if they raise taxes on their locals).
Illinois is known to be completely underunded, this is why they cranked up their state taxes so much recently.
Their state budget deficit in FY 2011 was over $43 billion, which is worst in the nation by a huge margin and Illinois has been doing that for several years. It is an economic black hole in terms of government overspending and pension underfunding, try reading a little as its clear you dont know what is gong on.
Nobody is going to agree to any Federal money for them, and their implosion is drawing near.
If they disincorporate the state government, "Illinois territory" may become just the place to move and start a homestead.
IL tax base is shrinking as people are fleeing in droves. All that will be left are those that cannot get out due to underwater home values, welfare recipients, and the morass of government workers (professors; fed workers; state, county, city employees; teachers, and other unionized parasites). The goverment workers are doing quite well, its quite frightening the distinct classes that are forming.
Obama's Amerika, coming soon to a state near you.
The different classes are eerily like "1984":
Oligharchs (will always be fine)
High Ruling Class (government, union heads, leaders) aka "inner party and O'brien"
Middle Class (union workers, teachers, in-the-know private leaders) aka "outter party and Winston"
Low Class (what will be left of the rest of us) aka the "proles"
Life imitating art????
its a good thing all that nasty manufacturing left the country and Chicago, among all places USA, the math of the service based economy always made so much sense /snark
You have a great career in politics in your future. I don't suppose your resume includes "Financial Administration in Greece"? I could swear those guys used the same logic. Actually I could swear just about every liberal used that logic and failed.
Can we apply the same logic to this as is being applied by the food/health nazi's - if we're responsible for your costs, then you'll live by our rules.
Oh wait, they're a blue state - nevermind!
Right because Republicans NEVER try and legislate how other people should live. The Democrat version is just another version of "we will tell you how to live...and guess what its our way!"
Repubs do the exact same thing all the flippin time the examples are too numerous to mention. If you don't see it, I would assume it is because you agree with Republican culture war ideals.
Both parties do this culture war wedge issue bullshit to distract from the critical issues like civil liberties (Repubs and Dems both have raped the constitution see Reagan through Obama) and financial freedom (again equal opportunity rape by both parties).
You say they want to crack down on McDonalds? Whoopity freakin doo! Oh no mr Stage IV Colorectal cancer patient you have hangnail lets wheel you to ICU to treat that very important condition!
Even the most Krugman-like liberal must be starting to realize that socialism has limits! We deserve every ounce of pain our bankruptcy gives us. My hope is that we end up with capitalism and adhere to our original constitution, but that's asking way too much.
Mental illness and stupidy have no limits, thus neither do liberals.
To prove my point, I am not a liberal, but I still suffer from endless stupidity.
How much of their project rosy rate of return is based on MBS's that haven't marked to market?
Media black-out on Zerohedge and FT team
6 out of 16 Bond houses say they will pull there money out of the UK.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/9559260/Bondholders-clear-George-Osborne-to-miss-debt-target.html
Other 10 are prepared to become slaughtered
It was clear from the beginning once the Euro was 'fixed' and the USA is put on hold until Obama's reelection that the UK and Japan would become targets.
Relax will you. Everyone knows the UK is insolvent. From: Psssst France: Here Is Why You May Want To Cool It With The Britain Bashing - The UK's 950% Debt To GDP
So is everyone else, which is why it is in everyone's best interest to keep head in sand as long as possible.
Tyler is so relaxed because if/when everything turns to shit, he knows that can always go work with his country cousin...
Haha! Tylers Tungsten Exchange.
Hey
I know Tyrone !
Your right they could be related
Of course that's not including the personal debt and the unfunded liabilites of the USA, then we would look more like the UK.
Darn it. If the US only had mass transit so people could get to work like these countries.
this is assuming there is work to be had.
http://www.guardian.co.uk/money/2012/jun/28/house-prices-biggest-fall-in...
Time for the Uk to 'emulate' USA and hand out more zero-down houses at 3% for 30 years to Blokes who cannot afford them.
Simple ... They should just fully join the Eurozone ... drop the Pound and embrace the Euro ... poof!! problem solved. Maybe we can do the same?
Tyler,
You of all people know that that chart is bollocks. The figure of the UK financial sector is seriously distorted, unless you consider that the UK is seriously on the hook for the US and other countries that bank in London.
"This does look frightening, and whereas it is acknowledged that the debt is too high the major difference in the UK is the amount of debt in the financial sector which is at 219%. This is three times higher than most other countries and more than five times America."
http://www.kiscommercialfinance.co.uk/blog/finance/commercial-finance-2/why-is-britain%E2%80%99s-total-debt-so-high/
edit: Yes of course the UK is insolvent. Is the US?
Hate to break it to you but financial debt is not only debt but is the most important debt out there: we highlighted in the latest Z.1 statement that the primary reason why US public debt has soared by 6 trillion since the GD 2.0 is because of nearly 3 trillion in fin debt deleveraging. The more financial debt out there the more public debt will have to be pumped to offset it as it is unwound as more central-planning encroaches and crushes confidence in a standalone, non-backstopped system (see: US Credit Formation And Destruction Since The Second Great Depression)
Also contrary to popular misconceptions UK institutions are on the hook if said debt is ever impaired (which it never will be precisely for this reason, thank you UK taxpayers)
Where the UK screwed up big time is in not taking advantage of shadow liabilities which are essentially off balance sheet fin debt. In America these account for 100% of GDP. The UK just never caught on in time that it can sweep trillions in fin debt under the rug. More on this tomorrow
cant' wait !
Add the fact that Osborne whole debt reduction plan in the UK is blown away. UK can only keep on financing its debt by printing money. Unlike Japan they do not belong to the countries like Germany and Japan that poses a lot of saving assets abroad that can support their currency. (repatriations).
They compare themselves to the EURO-zone and came to the conclusion that they do very well.
They should compare themselves to the average of Germany, The Netherland and France. And then it turns out they are next in line after Spain.
If markets realize their money is at stake in the UK the Pound can tumble really fast. That is very good for the hardly existing manufacturing base in the UK. But inflation will be move up really fast. This process will be fast and furious. Unlike the US and EURO zone the Pound is no reserve currency. Monetary financing turned out to be a privilege for the US reserve currency the dollar and I expect it will work also better for the EURO due to the scale of the economy and the EURO reserve currency status.
So yes I think the UK will be better of in the EURO. For all the Nigel Farage fans, remember one of the first sentence in “fooled by randomness”: “it aint over till it's over”
Keep head in sand until least common denominator is finally arrived at. Best cover your arse while you're at it.
If they would ship Chicago to DC they wouldn't have a problem.
If we could shit DC and Chicago to the EU we'd have less of a problem
That would hurt. A lot. Hard enough to be regular as it is.
What was it. only 17% of eighth graders can read?
I say fire them all. Open up the jobs non union.
And who's going to fill those jobs? Trained, qualified people? And how long will they last? I wish they would do it, just to show you and everyone else on this thread how awfully that would end.
5,243 Illinois teachers failed key exams
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/news/517752/posts
Love your sn. I use it to refer to him on FB and got called an "anti-semite" for that. I had to remind my old friend about a book called Frankenstein. He was still pissed. He's a liberal kook, for sure.
But I'll ask you, once again--would you do that job for 70K? Would you?
Your own link echoes a good bit of what I've been saying:
"But the state's neediest children--those in the lowest-scoring, highest-minority and highest-poverty schools--are roughly five times more likely to encounter teachers who stumbled in efforts to pass the tests. And Chicago public school students are 3-1/2 times more likely than suburban ones to have such a teacher."
The better teachers don't want these jobs, regardless of what they pay. I know this b/c it's the same here in Atlanta. No one wants to make that drive everyday and teach in those communities. Violence, very poor students, thug culture, etc. Seen how much gas is lately? Teachers usually have to report BY 7AM.
Rather than bashing teachers, what are your solutions? You say cut their retirement, cut their salaries, and get better ones, somehow? And you're someone who supports market forces? Again, good luck with that. I don't see you offering to teach them?
I teach college and would never teach hs in one of those areas, not for six figures. And I need the money, man. Right now I'm back to part-time status, and that's 2100 per class per semester, no benefits, will have to get put on my wife's insurance (if that's possible). And that is still a better deal than making an hour drive each day to teach in a battle zone.
There are answers to this problem--first, separate the terrible students from the good ones. It's high time to move them into "special" schools which have different expectations. In some of these districts, though, you'll have to move 70-80 percent of the students into "remedial" facilities, build new remedial facilities, and close some of the "regular" schools.
Second, give options to bus chunks of the better students to the white, suburban schools.
Third, raise the pay of teachers to draw good ones into the areas.
Fourth, fire a lot of the administrative folks, replace them while reducing the number of them.
Fifth, keep kids back who cannot pass standardized tests. Many on these threads don't demonstrate understanding of the problem of grade inflation. Even in college, teachers like me who don't pass kids along fall under a plethora of pressures.
What are your solutions, if you don't like mine and won't offer yourself for an inner city position?
Again, it's important. Tired of seeing the prisons, SNAP rolls and "welfare" stats pile up? Education is certainly one of the answers. When you have systemic, social, and cultural problems infesting areas, answers aren't easy.
None of the solutions I list are going to be tried. So bash on the teachers, offer them much less money, and see what happens then. Ha. Junk me all you want, but that solution ain't gonna work, and your links pose no answers, either.
I guess the only option is to invest in more prisons and then complain that Amerika is a police state. Wonder why?
Private prison companies' stock is rising. Cha-ching. That's no accident, either. And of course, they're not doing much to rehabilitate folks these days, are they?
You want a solution? Give every school age child a computer and broadband and teach from an acceptable curriculum online. Eliminate teachers, administrators, unions, school properties and property taxes.
Extracurricular activities can be self financed by local communities. Add magnet training academies for accepted students free of charge once students reach the eighth grade level. You could include industrial tech training sponsored by local businesses.
Teachers are not that important, information and critical thinking skills are.
First, I currently teach online, so I'm with you there. No driving, no security guards necessary, etc. But changing to online does not mean "eliminate teachers." That's your first error.
Next, administrators won't be eliminated under that plan, either. Someone will have to cyber monitor the whole education process. Whether it's considered "private" or "public," money will come from the "communities" and go to the "administrators."
Online education also requires special monitoring as far as cheating is concerned.
I realize the frustration many of you are sharing, but your rush toward apparently easy answers is often not well thought-out.
With that said, I do think the move to online will save everyone money all the way around, honestly. But of course I'm biased because that's how I work now, and I love it.
It will eliminate 95% of them. It will eliminate 95% of the administrators. There is no error there. Cheating is immaterial, you use an acceptable security and students only cheat themselves.
The answer is easy. It saves on buildings, maintenance, labor, pensions and benefits. It eliminates the security issue.
This required 20 seconds of thought. A reasonable effort would create an acceptable system at a fraction of the cost.
Your errors are your lack of substance to any of your points.
This is why they're proposing reform(ie cuts) to the system...and many other state pension plans will do the same. I'm not sure where the stock market goes from here but it's getting tougher and tougher to eek out returns. Bond yields are at record lows, people are moving to lower and lower quality credits seeking yield and i guess piling into aapl for equity returns. If the market takes another shit, boy alot of these guys are going to be hurting. They'll get crushed in a stock market downturn which will ensure low rates well past 2015.
http://trs.illinois.gov/subsections/press/PensionReformProposals.htm#PensionReformProposal
"... eek out returns."
"returns"
No problem. Almost every bank now offers a "High Yield" Savings Account these days. presnt yld is a whopping 0.01%.
What better time to ask for money than when a Chicago thug is in the WH
Illinois Socialist Swill Stroganoff in Baal-out buckets is too tempting, especially when it's spiced with Fed born Encephalitis children and Pensioner Portfolio Pepper. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tYjbkRktqIE
Here we are again.
You know, I can remember commenting on and on two years ago now, about big city criminal syndicate bankers drinking at the open bar at the Roach Motel [SPY], the mirror ball spinning [big govt] while little Miss Euro, a true bimbo, was starting to look QEzee after drinking too many mojitos, and needing someone to hold her hair back as she was leaning on the rail getting ready to blow chunks...while average Joe would not lift a hand in that duty because, back then anyway, he was struggling to pay $3 at the pump...and he did not give a rats ass about her.
And back then, everyone in the criminal banking cartel was cashing multi million $$ bonus checks and laughing at the prols, while The BlowHorn [CNBC] was suggesting average Joes everywhere could take much higher pump prices without even flinching.
And back then, I was typing away from underneath a great big pile of coats in the back of my coat closet because I did not want Ben Bernanke to be able to find me.
All that remains to be seen just yet is...perpetual stories about....SHOPPING over at The BlowHorn [CNBC], and I will have completely dejavu'd myself in a two year circle.
Only now...President Zero is fighting like all get out to make sure he has the right to imprison me permanently, and without trial, if he deems that I am some kind of threat to the union...even as it is the president himself, and his central banker buddies, who have been feeding mojitos to the entirely depraved studman U$D...who is now the one leaning heavily on the rail, telling his drinking buddies everything is alright, that he is decidedly not a shade of green...while clearly getting ready to blow chunks.
Two years have passed. The same criminals are in charge. The at the pump pain has hit $4. And arrest warrants are being issued for Average Joe!
What a Banana Republic Tree country this has become! It must be very, very near that time again...when tumbling down the rabbit hole we shall all go...again....
Good grief [and by that I mean...holy crime wave, Batman!]
unfortunately, that night, chunks was disappointed. perils of irrational expectations vs. understanding the situation.
Too funny. I laugh when I meet government workers who think they're going to recieve these cushy benefits the rest of their lives. Keep drinkin the kool-aid sucker ain't gonna happen. Think Camden New Jersey, it's going national bitchezz.
Mr Chunks getting blown and the mismatches above. A different way of thinking.......I like it.
not everybody has had the pleasure of experiencing camden. it's a real gem of life in the first world, hospitality, education. maybe on par with the great learning centers throughout the history of mankind. alexandria, athens, rome, constantinople. maybe a little down on it's luck right now - but sure to turn around. not exactly princeton - but not exactly what bennie was hoping to save, now, was he? bennie don't 'hang' in camden.
but - where does he 'hang'? bennie hangs out in princeton. but, he's on the roll, he's going to increase employment and home prices. and then, camden is going to be a place he wants to live in with his family. he a really magnamious guy. he wants the BEST for everybody. even if they can't go to princeton, and listen to about how HE would have prevented the depression, had he been there at the time, and about how HE now prevented the depression, but he knows SO much about the depression and prevented it from happening this time.
nice guy -has everybodys interest infront of his own. besides being a genius, although, unlike big bad bama, not yet a noble prize winner. but - noble prize comes out of europe - and given the size of the bailout (assuming the US is going to bailout europe is probably currently #1 ?, based on what? ) - he's probably next in line. so - obama beat him, but he is gonna get one anyway. and probably demand - based on his success in unemployment and improving the economy - that the noble committee not insist he goes to europe - but instead present it (the noble economics prize) to him in camden. camden new jersy - where bennies policys and those of his masters have worked so well.
wow. i think this is my last post here. and - i'm not even sure if i'm being sarcastic.
Twenty or thirty years ago (~1979), I lived in Southern New Jersey. Was going to complete my college degree. Signed up at Rutgers? (Whatever the school is in Camden. Funny, but I really cannot even remember.) Night school.
Went there once.
I'll bet I would feel safer strolling around, oh, I dunno ... Kabul or Benghazi today with hundred dollar bills and urine-soaked korans hanging out of my pocket than I did then.
What a fucking sewer it was then.
The US governemnt will pay the debt.This will increase the deficit,but that does not matter.The FED will create money out of thin air to buy the debt.And markets will be happy because the pensions will be paid and no teacher will have their benefits reduced one iota .This scenario is exactly what is happening in the QE's except the bailout participants have different names and professions
Inflation, if we get it, will turn their pensions into pin money.
high frequency printing
Amusing? Its really like father like son in this case.
"Chicago politics" as usual. Only this time, with Obama in office, the favors will flow to Russia, Europe, AND the non-performing Chicago teachers.
Bailing the pensions out directly would be a lot cheaper, but how do you cut out all the make-work middle? The herd can only be moved/slaughtered so fast.
You know, without going off the deep end and taking sides, there seems to be one common denominator in all of this: Human Beings. And that covers the entire spectrum. Including me for figuring it out.
There you go again!
According to The Burning Platform: Government unions will destroy the finances of every State and municipality in this country unless they are stopped.
IE BP: “The average teacher in Chicago makes $76,000 a year for nine months of work… Given the system has a $665 million deficit this year and a bigger one next year, I am wondering why there should be a raise at all.”
http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=40410
Dylan Matthews wrote on September 11, 2012 in How much do Chicago teachers make?: “Some of that salary has to go to pension contributions. Teachers are required to contribute 9 percent of their salary to their pensions, and support personnel must contribute 8.5 percent, as opposed to 6.2 percent if they were part of the Social Security system. But the Chicago Public Schools system pays for 7 percent of the employee contribution. So the more relevant comparison is a 1.5 to 2 percent contribution for CPS employees compared to 6.2 percent for private sector workers paying Social Security tax..
“What about the longer school day that Chicago Mayor Rahm Emanuel is implementing? The school day is increasing from five hours and forty-five minutes for elementary school and seven hours for high school, to seven and seven and a half hours respectively.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/ezra-klein/wp/2012/09/11/how-much-do-chicago-teachers-make/
I am wondering why there should be a raise at all.”
Well like any good poker game, you can either raise them back, and/or call their bluff.
$76K a year to teach in the Chicago school system?
The kids treat you like shit. The parents treat you like shit. The administrators treat you like shit. The taxpayers treat you like shit. Even the national media treats you like shit. Zero respect from ANYONE. Talk about career satisfaction. Who would want a job like that?
During the strike was the Chicago school district inundated with resumes from qualified teachers from all over the country anxious to land a gravy job like that and start living the good life in cosmopolitan Chicago?
How far does $76K a year go in Chicago, anyway? Is Chicago a low-cost-of-living area? How much do Chicago firemen make?
I cuddnt finish your post... I was teary eyed when you mentioned the media.
Yea, but Joe the custodian has to clean up that mess made by stuffing tp into the toilet, crappin on it, and pissin on top of that. Guess what? That shit don't flush, and who gets paid $7.50 an hour to handle the mess?? Thats right, Joe the future plumber who gets no such benifits treatment as do the teachers, who for some reason cant even stop the kids from acting that way because of invasion of privacy laws.
Right, Tippy. None of these people want to help teach Amerika's youth, but all of them want to bitch at teachers.
Divide and conquer hard at work.
I don't see any of them offering to do the work. But they sure offer to tell teachers how little they should be paid.
Some folks can't see the forest for the trees.
Your right. But your also foolish to think this is unique or that anyone here can suggest how "fix" from within the confines of the current terminally ill system.
Also, how many other careers fall into a similar category? Especially in the private sector without any pension or benefits.
Yes, this is being played as yet another divide and conquer. I won't play along with it.
It is sad though to watch it go down like this. Teachers are just the next in line to get jacked. Welcome to the new normal that I realized some 20 years ago.
Centerline, my biggest beef is that none of the teacher-bashers want to step up and do the job. They just want to eliminate all education, basically, or they have no alternatives to offer. They're not going to do it for 70K, NOT ONE OF THEM ON THIS THREAD.
So fine, I hope they go with the only alternative offered so far: Eliminate all of those positions, give the kids a computer ($), broadband ($), and turn them loose. How long until the computer is hawked for drugs and the broadband is used only for other possibilities? Of course, not to mention that online learning still requires teachers. Ever hear of a computer grading an essay or teaching critical thought? Even IF (big IF) you could set up programs to do this, someone needs to write that program. Someone needs to monitor the results, fix the tech problems, etc.
And of course none of this is really going to provide better results, is it? Then the social problems already plaguing these communities will be exacerbated. But the posters on this thread really don't care about that, do they? Some men in suits sold some real crap to the Illinois pension funds, and their buddies who were fund managers lapped it up. Think the fund managers got their pockets hurt in all of this?
If more folks on this thread understood the occultist dialectic, they might have some more intelligent insight, but bashing teachers is all the rage these days.
I'd like to see some of these folks try, just try, to teach some of these kids for a few days. How much would we have to pay them to do that?
+1 all around. Wish there was a better answer. Pretty confident that the entire system will have to fail and from the ashes will rise another system that allow good teachers to make a difference and students who really want the education get ahead. Lots of pain between now and then. Keep the faith because it sounds like you are one of the teachers who actually stands a chance of making a difference. Seriously.
I have had many a conversation with a my wife about how the current system is more akin to a sausage grinder and if we want our kids to really get educated, we have to help avoid the "machine" from eating them alive. When I was young, it was beginning to become a machine. Now, it's a terminator! lol. Teachers did not cause this. Teachers have become vistims. The have become commoditized! Same as my career over the last decade... and so many others.
If you look at wages going back to the 70s, their pay is not all that crazy. The difference here is that they have a union and get normal increases. You, on the other hand, decided that unions were shit and have not seen an actual raise since 1975
Bunga Bunga Pax Americana. The world is drowning indeed.
I used to be one of those people than venerated teachers and other public servants for their careers of hard work and social dedication. I once even bought groceries for a teacher (penniless in my early twenties) on her way home from her last day of work into retirement in an effort to make up for all the naughty things I did to substitutes and the like growing up.
I recently spent the last year working with various California university, primary and secondary administrators to otherwise save their budgets some money during these supposed challenging times - millions annually per county with zero impact upon "productivity" and otherwise ensuring that programs for children are at least better insulated from cuts and other problems.
If I had not seen it for myself I would not have believed it, yet these legions of malcontent six-figure wonks have no interest in saving tax payer money, are self absorbed with their own merits, promotions and bonuses and other entitlements and over and over again when i made the mistake of adding "do it for the kids" into the sales mantra these people actually get angry - probably out of self hatred for the crappy job they are doing.
I am sure most people join the teaching profession with passion for childhood development, but the reality of its bloated and selfish administration defies the human vocabulary.
Evil? Apathy? Contempt? I have no sympathy for these slugs. Maybe I would feel different if children were actually learning in these public institutions, yet with every semester there is a glaring similarity between public schools and the prison system.
You are a moron to send your kids into this circus of conformity. And your kids are going to come out even worse.
Burn those bums.
You admit your experience was strictly with school administrators, not teachers, yet you want to "burn those bums". News flash: administrators are neither union members nor do they teach our children. And I know of no teachers who earn "six figures".
But go ahead and trash teachers for the sins of their bosses. When you do the same at your local bank, I'm sure the tellers will love you.
then you don't live in the NYC tristate area, or Cali. and that's salary alone - include their pensions and benefits and it comes close to doubling it. do rookies make that much? no, but once you've been there close to ten years...
and that is for 9 1/2 months.......most people in the PRIVATE sector forget that !!!!!
I live in a suburb just outside of chicago. Taxpayers United made public the salaries of all the teachers at the district high school. there were about 35 teachers with salaries of $100K + . the School librarian has a yearly salary of $124K. Not surprisingly , proposed tax increase was easily defeated in the last election.
Tough negotiating on the part of public employees union ... In California the CTA (Cali Teachers Ass) negotiates with State employees who get paid more if the average public employee union people get paid more. Can you imagine what the incentives are in this process ............... Insanity everywhere you turn
My daughter, who is 26, attended Orange Public Schools (suburbs of Cleveland, OH) from first grade through 7th grade. Her teachers were outstanding, and she did well when she put in the effort which she really didn't do until her last year there. Also, the method used to teach reading in the first grade (phonics I believe) didn't work for my daughter. She learned to read at home during the summer between first and second grades. Her father read the Calvin & Hobbes comics books to her until she was eventually able to read them herself. She memorized them, but the ability to learn a new word and recognize it in another context is probably what all readers eventually do. One of the reasons I think this school district did so well is that it was small. The principal of the middle school knew everyone's name. Another thing that seemed different about this school district is that the school board had great power over the hiring and firing of personnel. I assume there was a teachers' union, but I never learned anything about it.
My closest friend volunteered at the CA Sonoma Country Board of Ed in Santa Rosa. The most common scene was well dressed highly paid employees walking around talking about vacations, where they went, where they were going, clothes and homes and other stuff they bought.
They are, in general, IMO, about as useful as the proverbial 3-titted billy goat.
I say let it burn down ...
Teachers Union needs a bailout just to cover the food bill of Karen Lewis.
Rahm will get things under control about the time he runs for President.
to anyone who says "fire the teachers" you know what. .screw you!! the MSM has a strong force on the igorant weak minded. Create that boogy man. As long as idiot gives out tax breaks (220mil) to CME and Sears and wants to give 150m to tommy boy and his urine filled dump. Your preachin..... Bankers fail. They have no merit system and destroy not create yet get billions of bonuses and trillions of bailouts.. At least teacher have use to society. I wish they got 100k for all i care and i dont even have kids. Take you "i have no empathy for these slugs" and do some thinking .. Thats the ignorant cart before the horse bullshit. Take your anger out first on banker elite then come bitchn about the "poor job" teachers do. Remember its "looky over there! the boogy man is gonna get ya" says the paid off arm of rahm suntimes.
FIRE THE TEACHERS !
If they don't want to work for what I want to pay them ... Fire them, just like what would happen to me if I demanded more
You're a product of public education aren't you?
When times get tough in the private sector, a business has to either reduce pay or lay people off ... I never understood why the public sector seems to feel it should be immune from this scenario. Working in the private sector one has to be very sensitive to management (the ones who pay you) and to customers (the ones who pay you). All I hear from the public sector is 'gime more' ... a 4.25% annual increase for four years in these times is totally outrageous.
why, that is the reason that it is the dreaded private sector. where outcomes are not guaranteed, but where the opportunity to pay for all of this shit is enforced at the muzzle of any weapon of the .gov's choice.
And, as good -ists, we're paying for the rope (... etc.)
to quote a hero
- Ned
You know the Bear always loves New Meat
four legs good ;-)
If I were to judge teachers by the MSM, I'd say the only 'use to society' they have been is as sperm receptacles and/or dispensers. Li'l Johnny and li'l Jane sure as fuck can't read, write, or do basic math by the time they finish high school.
Call them what they are: Day Care Specialists.
Could go broke as early as 2018? What Marxist wrote that? When you have 200 billion you can't cover - you're broke now.
More proof that America is doomed and will collapse.
I feel the urge to stack and prep this weekend.
The USD certainly is doomed. The country? Well if Brazil, Zimbabwe and Agentina can survive a currency crisis then so can America. The socialists won't however.
Total socialist insanity. Promise the moon and deliver on the backs of the system slaves. Where is my bailout, freebee, and vote buying handout?
One point of clarification - Illinois TRS doesn't manage money for the teachers who recently went on strike, only school employees outside Chicago.
Chicago Teachers is a seperate pension fund - which happens to have an unfunded liability of $6.8 billion (60% funded ratio)
So you're saying there's a chance...
The first to get bailed-out wins ... moral hazard on steroids.
Tyler. Publish Trimtab funding gap data. Thank you. Keep up the good work.
lol
... more like one in a million.
the land of obama
Doomobama ... the Land of Nightmares ... and Daymares
It really is an Obamanation.
NOte that Ill Teachers Pension and Chicago Teachers PEnsions (who just were on strike) our not the same pension system. Im sure both are bankrupt but different systems thanks to Daley. Who incidently oversaw the bankrupting of the CPS pension program.....
There are "specialists" that walk about school all day, maybe sit with a student here and there, and make more money than the teachers in the trenches. Even worse are the pencil-pushers at "central office" who decide that class sizes need increasing and assistants need to find new jobs. These people have big salaries and have pissed public tit bucks out on worthless shit for the classroom. It's wild to see what's happening as the tit dries up.
Many of the downstate folk would be OK with Chicagoland being its own country.
Will 47% "support" that bailout?
I have been both a teacher and a Director in a major global bank. Being a teacher in an urban environment is exponetially a far tougher job. It is rare in a global bank that an employee tells you to f-off because you will not let him get a drink of water during a spelling test. If you have kids in a public school and you have not thanked his/her teacher for all the work they put into their day, then I suggest it may be something that you add on your bucket list. I am sure the teacher would appreciate a work of thanks after a tough day. If you have never taught, it is hard to conceive of all the work that goes into a day.
And why is that? Is it because the Libs in the 70s decided Johnny couldn't be spanked? Then the Libs taught Johnny that his parents couldn't discipline him - use 911? Get fuking real.
So your education policy is to beat children?
If you can't see the difference between a spanking and a beating, nobody can help you.
Why Johnny...I'm your huckleberry.
The same crowd promoted "Fat is Beautiful", "Trophies for Losers", and "Churches, Charities, Parents and all support organizations not controlled by the Unionized State Suck"
Wow. Someone told you to fuck off, and that makes your job hard? So being a panhandler must, therefore, be the toughest job in the world. I bet I can guess what bank you worked for.
Please, go ahead and guess. Since you can't read for inference, I can probably assume a third grade reading level. And if you are referring to teachers as "a pandhandler", you probably have anger issues for having your job offshored to a wombat.
I junked ya! Life s hard....Life is harder if your stupid!! Just saying.
You mean as stupid as someone who can't spell you, you're, or is?
That's pretty stupid. Sorry YOUR life is so hard. ;)
Unions are dying - this bloated corpse that teachers cling to will die but not until they suck it completely dry and on the way out yell "we did it for the kids" LMFAO
I think the teachers should be tested themselves each year.
I'll grade the tests.
The bailout will be requested, and granted, on November 7th - the day after Dear Leader is re-elected in a landslide and he has all the "flexibility" he needs.