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Please Highlight The Housing Recovery On The Following Chart

Tyler Durden's picture


...of New One Family Homes for Sale (source) which at 150,000 is the lowest print... Ever. And no, "it can only go up from 300,000, 250,000, 200,000, 150,000... 0" does not work with us.


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Fri, 03/23/2012 - 11:57 | 2283754 Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

Green shoots = the weeds in your foreclosed neighbor's yard.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:08 | 2283826 CH1
CH1's picture

The people who posted this chart are clearly terrorists.

Bring in the drones.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:27 | 2283929 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

The drones were the ones that still thought house prices could never go down as late as 2007.  I dealt with many of those drones in my everyday life.  They have proven to be just as dangerous as missiles being fired from the sky. 

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:53 | 2284046 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Let us not forget the "Clueless One".  Blathering on about "Irrational Exuberance"

No... Alan.... it is Rational Exuberance.  House prices were rising double digits while the cost of money was falling to low single digits.

The "drones" were only following instructions from the maestro at the Fed. 

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:06 | 2284099 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

There never was a bubble (see video linked below), so anyone reading this obvious piece of propaganda for what it truly is will know that there's never been a better time to buy a house.




Offal Fart, Ph.D

PR Agent for Stellar Wind



Bernanke Proves There Never Was A Housing Bubble 


Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:37 | 2284234 Stackers
Stackers's picture

If you watch that video I love how Gold and Silver scroll by on the screen at $642 and $13 respectively. ROFL

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 14:27 | 2284450 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

And the same people I was telling at the time not to buy a house until at least 2011 (the option arm reset cliff), were selling all of their junk gold jewelry, claiming that $650 was the top of the gold bubble.

They bought a house then too.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 14:36 | 2284481 Michael
Michael's picture

I'm laughing my ass off at the epic Chinese housing bubble bust. 64 million empty vacant properties in China. Once a massive housing bubble begins to burst, there's nothing in the known universe that can stop it.

Sure wish I had some charts of that epic bust.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 14:50 | 2284540 Carl Spackler
Carl Spackler's picture

Just saw an article the other day that 30 million Chinese live in caves.

In fact, many young family members were tired or not making it in the cities, so they are moving back to live in the fmily cave.


Fri, 03/23/2012 - 20:18 | 2285631 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

"Family Cave" has an ominous ring to it.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 22:38 | 2285854 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Saw something similar.  Millions living in sewers, caves, basements, and abandoned buildings in Beijing.  Meanwhile, hundreds of thousands of empty luxury condominiums sit waiting for buyers. 

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 14:11 | 2284383 Seorse Gorog fr...
Seorse Gorog from that Quantum Entanglement Fund. alright_.-'s picture

I would vote you up just for the 'Offal Fart, PhD' bit.




Anal Whistle, MBA

Creator of life-changing inventions.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 20:24 | 2285641 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

And a +1 to you good sir.




Luce Duodenum,  B.S., CFC, J.D.

Colin E. Tripe, MBA, CFP

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 21:20 | 2285728 BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

+ 1 from Studly Hungwell

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 14:08 | 2284363 Seorse Gorog fr...
Seorse Gorog from that Quantum Entanglement Fund. alright_.-'s picture

Obama bin Bernanke is on to you, apeman.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:10 | 2283837 nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

The BAC announcement this morn that they will rent your house back to you if you give title has nothing to do with valuations and doing good for customers.  It has to do with BAC not being able to find title documents on millions of mortgages.

The "incentive" to rent the home back to the owner is only an incentive to get paperwork sorted out for the idiot BAC.

lol.  All actions by this bank drip with insolvency.


Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:15 | 2283868 reading
reading's picture

Wouldn't the incentive also be an attempt to convince some of the slew of people not paying a dime on the mortgage to pay something (anything is better than nothing). The number of people living rent free is astounding...

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:19 | 2283895 CH1
CH1's picture

The number of people living rent free is astounding...

Indeed it is.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:23 | 2283917 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

Multi-tenant building starts will become the new normal, as we build large stackable sheep pens for the sheeple in the new USA style of socialism.

I fucking need a new couch.  I hate that...

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:26 | 2283925 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

Cabrini Green and East Harlem were huge successes at building human warehouses. 



Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:42 | 2283999 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

"humans" lived there?

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:49 | 2284025 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

Good point.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:00 | 2284077 A Nanny Moose
Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:12 | 2284130 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Right on, man, we need China-style dorms. 

Then we may be able to become competitive again.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:17 | 2284143 californiagirl
californiagirl's picture

Agenda 21 in action.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:34 | 2284226 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

the Bronxification of the USA. 

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:40 | 2283985 francis_the_won...
francis_the_wonder_hamster's picture

"The number of people living rent free is astounding"

Has anyone managed to quantify this number yet?

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:08 | 2284108 Tristan Ludlow
Tristan Ludlow's picture

It does not matter.   It was not their fault.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:08 | 2284112 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

You come seeking truth. 3rd door on the left, past the labyrinth.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 14:37 | 2284489 ViewfromUnderth...
ViewfromUndertheBridge's picture

various estimates put it at $50-$80 Billion per year... 

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:19 | 2283901 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

Yes it is.  I know several doing it.  As much as I hate the lenders I think this whole disaster has shined the light on the character of millions of Americans.  The results are not good.  It is not just that they are not paying on their places but they legitimately feel like some kind of victim. 

It's a sad fucking day for this country. 

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:59 | 2284070 BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

Banks get literally trillions of free money while charging 18% on credit cards, and get a free pass on millions of cases of fraudulent foreclosures, and you are complaining about homeowners not paying an unpayable mortgage payment? TARP? AIG and Goldman Sachs getting repaid at 100 cents on the dollar. JPMorgan and MF Global customer money? Give me a break. The Banks have made it clear that only a chump pays their debt. Where is your outrage about not one banker doing a perp walk?

Why should the Average schmoe with a wrecked credit rating pay his mortgage? Where is his unlimited credit line at the Fed? I pay my mortgage because I still can. And because a crap credit rating is inconvenient. People with nothing left to lose have no downside risk.

If everyone went on a mortgage strike, this entire Ponzi might go ahead and crash rather than continue to drag on. , wipe out the immoral banking and Fed system, and get us to the big reset and global Jubilee that is the ultimate result sooner or later. So the current mortgage strikers are being logical and just as moral as the banking system. Likely most are choosing to keep food on the table for their family instead of a mortgage payment. A lot more moral than cheating millions for a bonus.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 14:01 | 2284309 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

Yes.  I complain about both the banks that loaned the money and the deadbeats they lent it to... 

/s/ the assholes of american taxpayers

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 14:36 | 2284484 Toxicosis
Toxicosis's picture

So two wrongs make a right.  Lets spread shitty behaviour around so that everyone has an excuse for being an asshole.  Neither the banks nor the people should be off the hook for greed, overconsumption or stupidity.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 14:41 | 2284505 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

There is no wrong in resisting fraud. (see my post below)

A contract has to be valid in order to be binding. They perpetrated fraud, and are now perpetrating further fraud to cover it up. Every note within the MERS system has a broken chain of title.

Allegedly Ginne Mae owns my note, yet their name appears on zero records in my county court house.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 15:00 | 2284576 TaxSlave
TaxSlave's picture

Exactly.  More fundamentally, the bank creates the currency to buy the house, making your promissory note as good as gold (for a minute, anyway).  The bank gets title to the property. 


When the gig is up, the bank has title to the property.


At the end of the game, banks end up with all the property (because the only way currency comes into existence to pay the interest on the debt is with more debt).


What value did the banks produce in order to get title to all of the property?  They didn't even loan out someone else's savings.  At most they invested a few hours to make sure you are 'worthy'.


So we are simply witnessing the end game, where we all rent property from government, without all the pretense.


Yeah, it's called SERFDOM.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 17:49 | 2285181 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

THIS IS NOT FRAUD...  there are a few issues here... 

First, the person alleging fraud must prove that he or she detrimentally relied upon some representation of another...  what was the representation exactly?  That housing prices are permanently skewed upward and you're gonna be rich by borrowing money?  To prove fraud, reliance must be REASONABLE.  I'm sorry, but burying your head in the sand hoping to get a money tree out of the deal is not reasonable... 

Second, the lender performed...  the borrower got the loan...  where are the damages?

Now, the actions may fit with breaches of the truth in lending act...  in that all of the material parameters of loans were not properly identified...  Further, there may be a larger conspiracy to commit a vast land grab through manipulation of the currency (good luck proving this one btw)...  but, none of these equate to fraud...  they might get you to the same place (made whole), but there is a big difference between them and fraud...  remember, you're using a legal term of art. 

I think, by and large, you're trying to argue the exception and not the rule...  I'm certain that there was plenty of fraud...  but I think the vast majority of any real claims are going to fall under truth in lending or some other remedy.   In short, it takes two to tango.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 18:34 | 2285362 lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

in between time they sent the males in your family (oops, sorry you crazy american females, you all love gettin blown up now also, annie got her gun, don't want you to feel second class or inferior) - in the tween time - they (the banks) have sent all the males in your family to some desert to get blown up.

nice.  jamie and lloyd are at lugers tonight.


Fri, 03/23/2012 - 16:34 | 2284908 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



So two wrongs make a right.

If we all keep doing the "morally right thing", that's exactly what the government and Wall Street wants, so they can keep right on looting us from every angle till we're broke.

Contrary to what "christians" believe, you cannot fight evil with good.  The only way you prevail against evil is be just as evil as them, preferably more evil than them. 

Christ doesn't fight evil with good.  He didn't say he was gonna forgive all the evil-doers.  He said he's gonna wipe 'em out, destroy 'em all.

That's the only way you stop evil.  Be more evil than them. 

So yes, two wrongs DO make a right. 

Actually it's not two wrongs.  It's evil meeting justice.  But justice isn't pretty.

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 22:41 | 2287720 donsluck
donsluck's picture

This is what they call "moral hazard". It's when you allow the powerful and rich to be immoral, and on down the line everyone gets infected. When the monitary authorities talk about a policy possibly introducing moral hazard, it should be rejected immediately.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 14:36 | 2284488 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

As long as the market is ruled by the philosophy of moral hazard known as TBTF, then no one should be making mortgage payments.

That said, I'm making mine, as I recognize the only rule of law left is the doctrine of "might makes right." It might be "rent-free" today, but they'll steal it one of these tomorrows.

I was just thinking recently of what if everyone joined a class-action suit against the banks/fedgov and refused to pay a penny until the chain of title issue was properly settled once and for all. Instead of making our payments to a bank, we could all pay into a trust to show that we intend to honor our debts, but presently, there is no enitity with a valid claim over us, leaving us ALL exposed to fraud. Therefore, what choice do we have but to seek relief?

If it were to happen, this shit would stop instantly.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 16:02 | 2284749 chunga
chunga's picture

If there is nothing to hide with this wild deed/clouded title fiasco, why do they always hide?

When pressed too hard in court with Motions to Compel the responses are almost universally Motions for Protective Order.

I like this one from the MERS Secret Electronic Mortgage Society because it was denied by the judge.

MERS Motion for Protective Order. DENIED. Feb. 28, 2012

Looks very suspicious...

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 17:56 | 2285211 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

It kind of already is though...  it's not concerted...  but, people are joining the ranks each day...  there is no telling how many people don't pay...  but it's really, really large...  large enough for ipads to still be sold like hotcakes (pun intended) during a depression... 

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 14:39 | 2284498 cossack55
cossack55's picture

Time on freakin' target, BM.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:59 | 2284075 Kayman
Kayman's picture


I agree with you, but...  the other half of the equation is the Fed.  Rather than providing  liquidity for the economy and providing price stability, so that the market can create price discovery, we have self-appointed czars screwing around in every market including housing.

When you reduce interest rates to force savers to become gamblers, and debtors to become alcoholics, then you ought to do the decent thing and put a bullet in your head. Ahem, I'm talking to  you Ben and Alan. 

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:32 | 2283947 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

Why pay if they can't find the paperwork they have been using to extort money from people,  forever?

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 14:01 | 2284326 MachoMan
MachoMan's picture

At some point the applicable statute of limitations have to run...  the law doesn't give two shits about those who slumber on their rights.  I think it would be prudent for all the deadbeats to make it perfectly clear to the banks that they are holding against their interests...  might also have someone else come in and squat for the time necessary for adverse possession...  could be a house swap.  That would create and even bigger pickle for them.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:10 | 2284122 geotrader
geotrader's picture

Let's see...  We can pay something and forget that iphone OR we can pay nothing and have steak tonight.



Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:38 | 2284225 BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

The dirty little secret is the banks would far prefer the person to stay in the house and keep it up.  At least mow the grass and keep thieves from stripping out the appliances and copper pipes.  From an acquaintance in the business, I know that banks pay at least $100 a month to a property manager to provide some nominal level of oversight and maintenance on an abandoned home.  And it still quickly goes to an effective value of $0 - the cost to repair it is more than any salvage sale, even to a hedge fund buying up mortgages from Fannie and Freddie for pennies on the dollar.  

So truth be told, BAC wanting to get rent from people who have stopped paying their mortgage is self-serving, particularly when BAC can't actually prove they own the property.  And don't moralize to me about not paying your debts.  The Banks with TARP, AIG paying Goldman Sachs 100 cents on the dollar when they should have paid far less, unlimited money from the FED at 0% interest rates, a free pass on millions of cases of Linda Green fraudulent robo-signing foreclosure fraud, MF Global customer money and gold being stolen by JPMorgan and others, corrupt bankruptcy trustees trying to redirect MF GLobal assets to pay John Corzine legal fees and paying bonuses to the executives at MF Global who let customer funds get stolen, people are getting financially repressed with zero return on their savings, ad nauseum to infinity -- all this has taught the "Little People" that paying your debts is a quaint and naive notion that does not apply in today's world.  At least not to Bankers who are abusing millions for an outrageous annual bonus.  

Bankers are not paying "rent" on the trillions of dollars they are getting from the Fed for free.  Why should a homeowner without an unlimited 0% credit line at the Fed pay their debt? or Rent?  Bankers sure are not.   

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:42 | 2284256 fourchan
fourchan's picture

its a self serving joke. while they get rich enslaving our grand children to debt through treasurys.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 16:19 | 2284818 chunga
chunga's picture

I posted this elsewhere and swear not to do it again.

In the Real Estate hay day, back when they weren't making any more Real Estate, money started looking for people. To this day, some remain stubbornly reliant on an obtuse and incomplete interpretation of the "Community Reinvestment Act" as a convenient neon red-herring on which to affix blame. To suggest (over and over again) that any politician, regardless of spot or stripe, would give a fig, lift a finger, bat a lash, or make anything more affordable for anyone other than themselves is mere cacophony.

The money was looking for people for one reason and one reason only.

How do you steal money from those who don't have any?

Simple. Just give it to them.

This seemingly chivalrous and selfless act of making the "American Dream" of home ownership more affordable to minorities or the otherwise disenfranchised was actually anything but chivalrous and selfless.

It was the perfect crime.

While keenly focusing on the fact that no one was making more Real Estate, it was triple A safe to assume the value of Real Estate would never do anything but go up. This "conventional wisdom", often called "speculative", "irresponsible" and "reckless" nowadays, was repeatedly and professionally affirmed by experts in the form of property appraisals.

The zenith of all this chivalry is the appraisal and exemplifies the brilliance of the perfect crime.

Precisely at that moment, the vaporous, phantom, wealth of debt is born. Hold on to your hats all you disenfranchised minorities, you will soon be disemboweled. The money has found you and welcomes you aboard the "American Dream".

Fast forward...

There is actually plenty of Real Estate and it never does anything but go down in value. In keeping with the state of affairs we find ourselves in; we are forced to re-examine the definition of "value".

Once upon a time, the value of something was a direct corollary to what someone would pay for it.

Not anymore. Value is defined in a cell on a spreadsheet[s] and one that never budges.

Enter the Credit Default Swap.

As chivalrous as the lenders were, way back when they weren't making more Real Estate, they had a sneaky suspicion the disenfranchised minorities they tried to help were secretly chiseling deadbeats. They had to buy insurance in case they didn't pay back the captured amount in all those spreadsheet cell[s].

Buying and selling this insurance was especially lucrative and worked like a charm for a few, but was really bad for many. You see, there was never any intention by these insurance companies to actually pay, much less have the ability to pay any of these claims. The only logical and prudent thing to do, absent any other possible option, was to once again foist this on the sap of last resort, the taxpayer.

Fortunately for TBTF, the taxpayers are busy pointing fingers at each other, exactly as planned. They are laughing at us. Oh, and as a bonus, all this chivalry has created clouds over millions and millions of titles and wild deeds as far as the eye can see.

This ponzi is a lot like a Jenga Castle; one little kick in just the right place and it all falls down.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:19 | 2283894 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

Also, I don't believe they are required to mark the asset valu to market if they are not forced to foreclose...check on that, but if it's the case it's their way of staying solvent on the books...

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:21 | 2283906 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

There is no reason they should have to mark these places to market since the current prices do not truly indicate the real market price of the asset.


Fri, 03/23/2012 - 14:55 | 2284558 prodigious_idea
prodigious_idea's picture

I'm pretty sure when the bank has an asset in their loan portfolio (home mortgage) that gets reclassified to a "revenue-generating" asset class that it's recorded on the books at market - LCM comes into effect.  Deed in lieu takes the homeowner off the mortgage, which is no different in effect, just process, than a foreclosure.  What I do know, is that following title transfer - foreclosure/DIL that they reverse accrued but uncollectible fees, finance charges and RE taxes paid by the bank (which were previously added to the amount due from the homeowner).  That number can be huge if the property was distressed for an extended period of time.  You can see this in the difference between their last mortgage statement and any 1099 they receive.  I would like to know how this process affects their capital calculations.  Any bankers out there to clarify???

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:28 | 2283934 pods
pods's picture

Wells Fargo was big on "helping" me a couple years ago.  They wanted to refinance me into a fixed rate.  Said no thanks several times.  After that they started to try to repair the chain of title.  They registered with the county like 3 years after they bought the note.

Nothing is about helping individuals. Always about helping the banks.

How an industry that makes money by creating credit out of nothing and charging for it cannot make an easy profit is beyond me.


Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:36 | 2283971 GenX Investor
GenX Investor's picture

That...and to also turn a non-performing mortgage asset into a performing real estate asset.  Poof and presto!  Bullshih get into FAS.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 14:58 | 2284569 Carl Spackler
Carl Spackler's picture

Well, of course.

How do you think Bank of America was going to pass the stress test (i.e., results just announced)?

Rent back to the underwater muppet, and the situation becomes accretive...back the loss out of the reserve as a recovery.

Presto, there is now more Tier 1 equity capital, and Bank of MAerica is looking stronger !

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:50 | 2284031 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Report him to the HOA and Code Enforcement.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 11:58 | 2283764 PivotalTrades
PivotalTrades's picture

Obama said just flip the cart

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:25 | 2283920 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

Obama's grand goal of his presidency was to help make housing prices unaffordable for his legions of followers.  He even stated the goal in at least one Misstate of the Union Address.  He almost made it.  He made food and energy prices unaffordable for his legion of drones. 

If he had been throwing hand grenades his performance would have been considered pretty good. 

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 15:17 | 2284623 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Why are you confining your idiocy to just one village?  There is plenty to go around.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 11:59 | 2283768 jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

Clearly this is bullish for home builders and the stock markets...

(anyone buying a house now is going to be in for one ugly surprise very soon!)

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:02 | 2283785 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

Lack of supply means huge price gains coming!

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:14 | 2283853 Toxicosis
Toxicosis's picture

What lack of supply? There's mountains of homes in shadow inventory just aching to swell an already overbloated market.  And who's rich enough or will even have the credit rating to buy a house other than a few chinese foreigners and the wall streeters amongst others?  It's not as if well paying jobs are coming back and people are reducing their debt.  Old or new homes, who cares.  If more of the population ends up on foodstamps homes will sit empty, costs will still be rising, and jobs will not be aplenty.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:21 | 2283905 eatthebanksters
eatthebanksters's picture

Obama' is going to allow down payments in food stamps to expand the pool of prospective qualified buyers...

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:29 | 2283937 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

In the neighborhood we moved from, a haven for new houses, all of the houses were between 2,500 and 6,000 square feet.  The price of upkeep, and utilities, on those places is just astounding.  Good luck with that 4,000 square foot place during a blazing August or a brutally cold January.  You might want to do a few shots of Jameson before opening that bill. 

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:24 | 2284162 nedwardkelly
nedwardkelly's picture

The price of upkeep, and utilities

Don't forget the property/school taxes. Plenty of houses around me with $15k+ combined property and school tax bills per year. NFI who all these people are that are Ok paying that sort of money simply for the privilege of living in the house that you supposedly own.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 15:06 | 2284589 prodigious_idea
prodigious_idea's picture

That's right.  Big number.  In Oregon, BAC shows a drop in pending foreclosures of over 60% since Sept'11.  Those homeowners didn't suddenly start paying their mortgage.  And the homes aren't on BAC's books.  I take that back, of the 3,600 homes that came off their foreclosure system during that period (for whatever fucking reason), only about 300 are on their website for sale.  I doubt the remaining 3,300 were sold/loan mod'd/whatever-the fuck.  Interesting that some posters say they still pay their mortgage to prevent credit damage.  Other than a job, what's so valuable about a FICO score that you'd service a fixed-principal/rate debt on a depreciating asset?

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:03 | 2283794 overbet
overbet's picture

"(anyone buying a house now is going to be in for one ugly surprise very soon!)"


I disagree, history has repeated itself over and over. They blow up a bubble then crash it and buy it all up on the cheap. USA may just become even more of a melting pot.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:21 | 2284149 grey7beard
grey7beard's picture

>> anyone buying a house now is going to be in for one ugly surprise very soon

I'm not so sure about the anyone part of that.  I'm looking at a repo today.  Eight fenced acres, a six stall horse barn I'll revert back to a barn, and an above average 1,700 sq ft mobile.  It's all five miles from the center of a very nice small town.  Asking price, $70,000.  You have to live somewhere.  At that kind of price I'm willing to risk some of my stash on lifestyle. 

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 16:35 | 2284910 Save_America1st
Save_America1st's picture


you wouldn't mind telling me how you located and made your deal would you?  Websites used or realty broker, etc? That's exactly what I'm looking to find somewhere out in the western U.S. (currently down in Florida).  Thanks in advance if you can help out!

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 17:04 | 2285037 grey7beard
grey7beard's picture

>> you wouldn't mind telling me how you located and made your deal would you?

I'm in north Florida right now, but I think the system is about the same everywhere.  Visit local realestate agents in the area you are interested in (you can visit them in person/phone/internet, whatever).  Most places I've been have local MLS services that autosend new or changed listings that meet whatever criteria you are looking for.  This place started out on the market while still owned by a human at $122,000, was reduced to $98K, repoed and then reduced to $70K.  When it hit $70K I was sent a notice as it fit my criteria.  I've been attached and watching this systems listings for two years now.  I'm sure the original agent that input my information doesn't know, or care, that I'm still getting updates.  I also have a system in SW Florida sending me updates. 

I regularly puruse,, craigslist, trulia, etc, but none of them seem to have all the listings, or updates, of the local mls. 

Feel free to email me personally if you want to discuss it further.  Good luck to you.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:25 | 2284171 ljag
ljag's picture

Now you tell me!. I just bot a 2800sq ft home resting on 13 parklike acres w/outbuildings and a stream running through it for 180k. I thought I got over like a fat rat especially since they threw in the John Deere, Toro 0 radius mower, trimmer and all the appliances. Haven't closed yet.........should I bail?

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 14:34 | 2284482 grey7beard
grey7beard's picture

>> should I bail?

That would depend on the model of the Deere.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 20:41 | 2285670 BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

Fixed rate 30 year mortgage at 4% ?

Yes - your real interest rate is -4% to -6% at real inflation rate. And the interest is a tax deduction. Payment is less than rent. And when prices are 10x, you can easily pay off with a few Eagles.

A variable rate? No way.

20% down, and stack with the other 80%.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 11:59 | 2283770 Cdad
Cdad's picture

And banks are ripping over the last two months!

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:07 | 2283812 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

My take? They planned on being well into WW3 at this point, but are still nowhere near it and now almost impossible to start now since Israeli/Iranian people have gotten together to shout WE DONT WANT ANY WAR like the battle scene in Braveheart where the English launch their charge and all meet in the middle and shake hands.


Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:17 | 2283880 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

By hook or by crook...

Göring: Why, of course, the people don't want war. Why would some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best that he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece. Naturally, the common people don't want war; neither in Russia nor in England nor in America, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy or a fascist dictatorship or a Parliament or a Communist dictatorship.
Gilbert: There is one difference. In a democracy, the people have some say in the matter through their elected representatives, and in the United States only Congress can declare wars.
Göring: Oh, that is all well and good, but, voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:25 | 2283922 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

You hit it on the head. I don't know how many people I hear say " we've got to do something about Iran". You should see the confused look when I say .." why?".

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:31 | 2283944 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

The poor and middle-class are cannon fodder, as the rich fight over possession of the world. 

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 03:13 | 2286149 Joseph Aguirre
Joseph Aguirre's picture

They are a currency that the rich exchange for resources.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:19 | 2284056 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Goring, LOL...Yea KRID well its not exactly 1930 anymore either, its not even 2001 anymore, we got this little thing called '4G high speed internet' and everyones calling BS....your theory may have held water in 1930 when the most you got was a daily newspaper, but now the next false flag they pull is more likely to focus the people even harder against their criminal govts.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:31 | 2284205 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

The politicians and the powers that be are doing a good job at demonizing the web. look at how Sarkozy is attacking it in France. My guess is the next false flag the government will look for a reason to shut down Internet access and stop the flow of information.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:33 | 2284218 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

So? If you already know something, how does shutting down the internet make you then forget it?

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:45 | 2284266 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Look at how many people are still buy into the official 911 story. It's been 10+ years and people still believe that story. If they can clamp the web quick enough, they can get away with a false flag. I agree if all things remained the same they couldn't get away with it. But I don't believe all things will remain the same.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 14:33 | 2284463 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I dont give a rip about what the avg moron in Starbucks thinks or doesnt think. Now back to my original point, if its all SO EASY for them to pull off, then what keeps interfering with their plans to start a war? Theyve been rattling this sabre for over a year of impending war at any whats the holdup? I mean, if its SO easy and all, they may as well just do it today and be game why does it keep getting delayed week after week, month after month? 

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 14:53 | 2284549 Cdad
Cdad's picture

...because the delay continues to be great for criminal syndicate Chicago based options junkies trading WTI contracts at $107 per barrel...even as demand for gasoline collapsed three months ago.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:23 | 2283915 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Sheep dog you're right and wrong. Yes the people don't want war , but the leaders do. So we will have a war, it's just a matter of when.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:04 | 2284063 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Theyve overplayed their hand, everyone now sees thru it and calls BS. Oh sure, they can false flag again....except now everyone knows what that is, and 'start war'...except what are they going to do when no one shows up? Oh you can hand someone a rifle and point where hes supposed to go, but what happens when he turns around and shoots YOU instead? Its not the 1930's anymore folks, hell its not even 2001 anymore when no one would have still believed a govt would kill thousands of people to get themselves out of trouble and into a war. Now today everyone knows it.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 14:31 | 2284464 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

Another big problem for them is that their occult networks and ways are all being revealed.  It a long time, but people are now widely hearing about how Bush Sr. used a child prostitution ring, how MK-ULTRA is used in Hollywood (, and how satanic / child-abusing networks operate above the law in the US.


'Occult' powers no longer work once light is shined on them...

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 15:23 | 2284636 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Yeah, Dawg.  I don't think this will work any more... not today.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 19:37 | 2285546 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

You know it, and I know it, but I'm pretty sure not everyone knows it. I'm thinking the ones who are awake are still in the minority, judging by the enthusiastic responses the GOP candidates get on their warmongering, and by the lack of criticism exhibited by the mass of die-hard Obama apologists.

The people don't want change (yet), it's too uncomfortable. We won't get people wanting real change until there's something really difficult to hide, like famine or pandemics or weekly rioting in all metropolitan centers.

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 03:39 | 2286163 Joseph Aguirre
Joseph Aguirre's picture

I think you underestimate the sentiment of history.  There is little new about what has been done, and the rise of communication via technology makes us easier to manipulate.  Even a drafted military would not turn on the United States, so I don't buy your assertion about the military refusing to fight.  Our volunteer armed forces are of sufficient number to take on Iran, and any escalation with more powerful countries would incite a wave of recruitment.  I don't know how old you are, but the 18-21 crowd was the 7-10 crowd when 9/11 occurred.  Most people don't believe the government orchestrated 9/11.  The people in the military, and those who would join, aren't members of the conspiracy crowd.  I think General Butler sums this up the best:

“War is just a racket. A racket is best described, I believe, as something that is not what it seems to the majority of people. Only a small inside group knows what it is about. It is conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the masses.

I believe in adequate defense at the coastline and nothing else. If a nation comes over here to fight, then we'll fight. The trouble with America is that when the dollar only earns 6 percent over here, then it gets restless and goes overseas to get 100 percent. Then the flag follows the dollar and the soldiers follow the flag.

I wouldn't go to war again as I have done to protect some lousy investment of the bankers. There are only two things we should fight for. One is the defense of our homes and the other is the Bill of Rights. War for any other reason is simply a racket.

There isn't a trick in the racketeering bag that the military gang is blind to. It has its "finger men" to point out enemies, its "muscle men" to destroy enemies, its "brain men" to plan war preparations, and a "Big Boss" Super-Nationalistic-Capitalism.

It may seem odd for me, a military man to adopt such a comparison. Truthfulness compels me to. I spent thirty- three years and four months in active military service as a member of this country's most agile military force, the Marine Corps. I served in all commissioned ranks from Second Lieutenant to Major-General. And during that period, I spent most of my time being a high class muscle- man for Big Business, for Wall Street and for the Bankers. In short, I was a racketeer, a gangster for capitalism.

I suspected I was just part of a racket at the time. Now I am sure of it. Like all the members of the military profession, I never had a thought of my own until I left the service. My mental faculties remained in suspended animation while I obeyed the orders of higher-ups. This is typical with everyone in the military service.

I helped make Mexico, especially Tampico, safe for American oil interests in 1914. I helped make Haiti and Cuba a decent place for the National City Bank boys to collect revenues in. I helped in the raping of half a dozen Central American republics for the benefits of Wall Street. The record of racketeering is long. I helped purify Nicaragua for the international banking house of Brown Brothers in 1909-1912. I brought light to the Dominican Republic for American sugar interests in 1916. In China I helped to see to it that Standard Oil went its way unmolested.

During those years, I had, as the boys in the back room would say, a swell racket. Looking back on it, I feel that I could have given Al Capone a few hints. The best he could do was to operate his racket in three districts. I operated on three continents.”

We've never gone to war when the people decided it was the right time, never has a government been like "holy shit we didn't realize you felt that way about those guys, ok cool if you want a fight we'll start gearing up."  Nations go to war when they are told to go to war or when they are invaded.  I'm sick of reading headlines about how 'insurgents in one portion of afghanistan are fiercely opposing America'.  They aren't insurgents when they are defending their land.  Many of them don't even understand why we're over there, they fight because a foreign army has arrived.  These guys aren't geopolitical masters weighing the benefits of American capitalism versus desert goat herding.  On the flip side, appearing to know more does not equate to knowing the truth.  Truth hides for many reasons and to most people.  The difference is the one who thinks he knows is easier to manipulate.  Confidence bred from ignorance is the fuel of nationalism, a resource which America is not short of.


Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:23 | 2284157 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yes its a matter of 'when' and as I concluded above the 'when' should have been about 6 months ago at least so now as all their 'outrages for war' fall on deaf ears because the people know its all just a bunch of BS, we get days like today where obviously theyre just trying to buy another day of time. Theyre NOT going to get the people ramped up for a war, theyve cried wolf far too many times, so now they may as well just skip to thermonuclear exchange war because the people are NOT going for it.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 15:25 | 2284650 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Maybe if Dancing With the Stars was just static for a few episodes and TPTB blamed it on the infiltration of Hezbollah... Might that work?

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:29 | 2284191 Sunshine n Lollipops
Sunshine n Lollipops's picture

What if they held a war and nobody came?


Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:31 | 2284207 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

What if they handed guns and grenades to people to go kill another people, and instead they used the guns and grenades against the govt who designed the war?

Sat, 03/24/2012 - 03:43 | 2286165 Joseph Aguirre
Joseph Aguirre's picture

Soldiers do not think like that.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:23 | 2283916 Vince Clortho
Vince Clortho's picture

If the banks are not engaging in home loans, what  activity could possibly account for the astounding rise in bank stocks share prices?

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:35 | 2283968 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

Having been in banking during this mess I can tell you there is no bank left in the U.S.  They are all hedge funds.  Go into any bank in the U.S. and ask them if they have made any money off of traditional banking the past 5 years.  By that I mean the act of taking in accounts at a given rate and lending the money out at another rate.  I bet not one will say, "yes".

Now ask those same institutions if they have made money by using oceans of liquidity at near zero percent to purchase bonds.  I bet the answer will be a resounding "yes" at nearly every bank that is still standing.  The free money was there for every bank.  The bond market made fortunes for the survivors.  Throw on top of that the lack of a need to mark assets to market and the ability to create profits has been huge. 

Take away the bond market and every bank would have probably already gone teats up. 

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 18:14 | 2285291 lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

WVI - not sure i would exactly agree, but with your terms. they aren't 'making money' by that i mean 'profit' in a real sense, but the fact they borrow huge sums at .25% and then buy treasurys paying 1% and make the difference on carry.  that shell game to some degree offsets the loses that are real.  but it is just an accounting game.   and it really is a form of money printing.


Fri, 03/23/2012 - 11:59 | 2283771 Jlmadyson
Jlmadyson's picture

Soft landing right? What are we at now 5 years since Big Ben said that?

Let's go for a clean decade Bernakeman.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:19 | 2283890 Carbon Skidmark
Carbon Skidmark's picture

Soft like falling into a heap of horse doodie...soft and warm

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 11:59 | 2283772 overbet
overbet's picture

Housing stocks at highs of day right now and pulling market up it appears.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:37 | 2283975 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

Don't forget that all of the builders were saved from the hangman's noose by the ruling that has allowed them to use losses to prop themselves up.  Another industry that was saved by shady accounting. 

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:00 | 2283773 Dollar Bill Hiccup
Dollar Bill Hiccup's picture

See no worries. You're making it seem like housing can go negative or something.

It's all good, go and buy some securities, you will feel a lot better.

Uncle Ben's on it.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:14 | 2283856 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

It is negative.

A house right now is a liability.

Forget;in Unicorn land a liability=asset

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:00 | 2283775 seamus3500
seamus3500's picture

i thought Cramer said the housing market was doing better?


Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:01 | 2283779 carbonmutant
carbonmutant's picture

Obviously the chart is upside down... lol

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:01 | 2283782 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

My charts are here on Bernanke saying "The Fed had nothing to do with the bubble!!"


And the Zona de Muerta for housing (as Chris Whalen used to describe my housing charts)


Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:35 | 2283969 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

The Fed had nothing to do with the bubble. And Obama now claims that the Solyndra debacle was "not our program, per se". It was the fault of the Chinese and the Congress (which was overwhelmingly Democratic in 2009). Oh, and let's not forget: It was Bush's fault.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:02 | 2283788 resurger
resurger's picture


Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:14 | 2283855 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Totally dow 20000

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:33 | 2283952 resurger
resurger's picture

with all this Ponzi! DOW to quintrillion 1,000,000,000,000,000,00,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:02 | 2283789 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

Once all the home builders fold it will hit zero for an extended period of time.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:39 | 2283980 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

The NAHB is a strong lobby.  I think the "house builders" will find a way to survive.  They are a special breed of cockroach.  Just look at Hovnanian.  How is that company still around?

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:30 | 2284197 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

By going public, but mostly by robbing every subcontractor they had working for them

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:02 | 2283790 Paul Atreides
Paul Atreides's picture

That chart should be a ride at a theme park

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:03 | 2283796 Theta_Burn
Theta_Burn's picture

At these prices, at least here in Jersey, thats almost at par for materials & labor.

Forget the copper wiring and plumbing, soon they will be mining the 2x4's for profit

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:16 | 2283871 Big Corked Boots
Big Corked Boots's picture

You are correct about pricing of existing homes equaling the cost to produce new ones. Note that the land owner (home prices = building + land + improvements) is getting the worst of it.

If we go to war, the 2x4's will be mined for fuel.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 20:26 | 2285644 BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

Don't forget about the "impact fees". Huge tax on new construction from local government. New costs more than resales in most places.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:16 | 2283872 tabasco71
tabasco71's picture

burning them to keep warm more like...

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:43 | 2284003 Decolat
Decolat's picture

Economic growth may be found in the demolition sector. Go long on wrecking balls.


I said balls.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:03 | 2283798 subqtaneous
subqtaneous's picture

Yesterday I read "M Meyer says Housing has Bottomed" . . . modicum of truth to that, i see.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:40 | 2283986 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

I remember reading my first "housing has bottomed" comment.  A co-worker pointed it out.  This was when I was the lone voice in the Manhattan wilderness warning about the coming collapse of real estate and its potential to destroy the world's economy. 

The month was August 2006. 

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:04 | 2283802 DavidJ
DavidJ's picture

"Please Highlight The Housing Recovery On The Following Chart"


The rate of declining is slowing.  /sarc

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:34 | 2283959 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

Yep, we just may not go through ZERO.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 15:28 | 2284659 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Well, I suppose the banks could pay the occupant/owner $1,000 to take the house free and clear.


Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:05 | 2283806 Hobbleknee
Hobbleknee's picture

Inflate the tires!

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:05 | 2283808 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

No biggie, no new homes needed...

- People are too broke to start families

- Illegals are leaving the country

- Americans are leaving the country

- There's already a surplus of houses, millions of empty houses are sitting there

So even 150 000, that's a whole lot of houses who should have never been built in the first place.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:14 | 2283845 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

What's the next strategy to extend and pretend?? Do like China and built 64 million + empty houses? Empty cities? Build half a town while the other side is destroyed by another company to be re-built a few months later by the company on the other side of town????

Hell in the US, there's already 18 million (2011) empty houses sitting there. By now I bet it's more than 20 million... if all the foreclosures were foreclosed on, it would be in the 30 million + range... and the worst about it? There's million of homeless people when million of houses are empty... sick world.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:51 | 2284034 Chump
Chump's picture

Made me laugh.

You insult Chinese US Citizenism with typical US Citizenism.  Consume and build to support the US Citizen is all the hallmarks of US Citizenism in Chinese US Citizenism.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 14:50 | 2284542 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

Chinese US citizenism is all about consumption round the clock, 24 out of 24, 7 out of 7, 365 out of 365.

At least, it helps to keep pretending that Chinese US citizenism citizens are interested in humanity well being.


Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:21 | 2283876 HarryM
HarryM's picture

Dead on

Would help if they didn't build a new house unless they have a signed contract and approved loan.

Now they're rolling out multi-family homes - F'n great - just adding to the housing glut


Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:39 | 2283979 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

In some neighborhoods the single-unit homes are also multi-family homes. Two can live as cheaply as one. Etc.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:42 | 2283995 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

Why do we need house building corporations anyway.  Take away their protection by the politicos and they would all die.  Let little builders do the job.  Oh, wait, that would be capitalism.  Can't have any of that shit fucking up the sytem. 

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:36 | 2283972 BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

Huge overhang of Homebuilders who will build if they find a bank who will give them a construction loan. That is what they do - all they know how to do. A shark has to keep moving or die. And often the new construction loan is used to cover their carrying costs on the unsold houses they have already built. Banks are flooded with funds, but make more new house construction loans? Crazy. Has not completely collapsed yet, but it will.

Lots of folks did very well for a long time cranking out McMansions. Some still scraping along hoping to survive until the next upturn. But that is years if not decades away.

Amazing to me any builder can get a construction loan for a spec house.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:46 | 2284017 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

But that is years if not decades away.

True dat. You had the inversed pyramid population + crappy economy + indebted/jobless new generation + people leaving the US and you get a perfect shitstorm for the next few decades...

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 18:05 | 2285253 lotsoffun
lotsoffun's picture

no surprise if i'm the builder and my m/f/s/b/c is the local bank loan officer  :)


Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:06 | 2283809 alexwest
alexwest's picture

@hey tayler..


probably 90% correlation/causation


Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:06 | 2283811 Jacks Nipple
Jacks Nipple's picture

I am going to Romania where they build their own houses out of straw, fuck this place.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 13:17 | 2284141 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Look out for wolves.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:07 | 2283813 Jacks Nipple
Jacks Nipple's picture


Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:08 | 2283823 Jlmadyson
Jlmadyson's picture

While the rate is the lowest ever the most amazing thing is it just keeps falling and YET we are always about to bottom out according to the so called WS pros.

Bottoming out for 5 plus years and going.

Shiller: What bottom indeed!

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:08 | 2283825 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

this is a green shoot because it means that the fed will finally unveil its home money printing software.....

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:09 | 2283828 BeerBrewer09
BeerBrewer09's picture

You'll be livin' in a van, down by the river.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:14 | 2283852 BeerBrewer09
BeerBrewer09's picture


You'll have plenty of time to live in a van down by the river, when you're livin' in a van down by the river.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:34 | 2283962 Decolat
Decolat's picture

Matt Foley is an American Success Story.

Bullish on used van dealerships and floodplain property. 

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 12:09 | 2283830 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

There is clearly a bottom forming in that chart. No wait that's a yogurt smudge on my screen.

Fri, 03/23/2012 - 15:31 | 2284666 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

That's not yogurt...

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