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Poor New Yorkers Spend 25% Of Income On Cigarettes

Tyler Durden's picture


It sucks to be poor. It sucks to smoke (broadly speaking). But most of all, it sucks to be a poor smoker in New York. This is the finding from a study conducted by RTI's Public Health Policy Research Program which shows that low-income smokers in New York spend 25 percent of their income on cigarettes, a finding that led a smokers' rights advocate to say it proves high taxes are regressive and ineffective. Bloomberg reports: "In New York, with the nation's highest cigarette taxes, a pack of cigarettes can cost $12, though many smokers have turned to cheaper cigarettes bought online and by using roll-your-own devices. Wealthier smokers — those earning $60,000 or more — spend 2 percent on cigarettes, according to the study." The imminent solution: hike taxes even more of course. After all it is not like broke New York City needs the cash broke smokers will stop using EBT cards and other forms of cheap credit to feed addictions. And while at it, hike school tuitions a little more: in a society in which the only peddled hope of regaining the American dream is graduation with an advanced pottery degree, and in which (non-dischargeable) student debt costs nothing, what is the downside?

Amusingly, it seems America has something resembling a smoker's union:

for smokers, the study proves cigarette taxes are punitive and "undeniably regressive," said Audrey Silk of CLASH, a national smokers' rights organization.


"It busts their theory that high taxes equal submission to their coercive measure at the same time," she said. She criticized government "anti-smokers" who jack up taxes, but she also found with anti-smoking groups like the Cancer Society.


"Ulterior motives abound ... to generate bad news as reason to tighten the screws and fish for more funding to do it with," she said. "They enrich themselves at the expense of those they helped stigmatize."

The government however refuses to take the bait:

Peter Constantakes of the state Health Department argues that tax increases and other programs are helping people kick the habit.


"Cigarette taxes are an evidence-based intervention that has proven successful in encouraging smokers to quit," he said. "New York is promoting a number of anti-smoking initiatives, including targeted media campaigns, that are designed to reduce the smoking rate among lower-income groups and prevent young people from becoming smokers."

Apparently not, especially when handouts in various forms such as EBT cards, foodstamps and the like, do not serve as a sufficient incentive to put the cigarette down, and merely transfer money from easy sources of credit to cash strapped entities who can tax the living daylights out of credit incurring intermediaries.

But if monetary considerations do not stop smokers from lighting up, the government can just say it tried its best and begin regulating daily smoking intake in addition to everything else. Naturally that would crush vice tax revenues by the same broke striken-through entities observed above. And in a world in which there is virtually no organic cash flow left, this simply will not stand.


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Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:12 | 2816058 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

The Surgeon General is fat, if i remember correctly.  Gluttony is a sin.  Smoking not. 

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:14 | 2816068's picture

I'd rather fight than switch.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:33 | 2816141 Top_Kill
Top_Kill's picture

Funny, when you replace a couple key words, the argument quickly is discredited by those left of center. Watch this:


Peter Constantakes of the state Health Department argues that tax increases and other programs are helping people kick the  habit.

"Cigarette taxes are an evidence-based intervention that has proven successful in encouraging smokers to quit," he said. "New York is promoting a number of anti-smoking initiatives, including targeted media campaigns, that are designed to reduce the smoking rate among lower-income groups and prevent young people from becoming smokers."







Peter Constantakes of the DNC argues that tax increases and other programs are helping people kick the employment habit.


"New York State employment taxes are an evidence-based intervention that has proven successful in encouraging workers to quit," he said. "New York is promoting a number of anti-working initiatives, including targeted media campaigns, that are designed to reduce the working rate among lower-income groups and prevent young people from becoming employed."

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:37 | 2816177 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

You just found the Holy Grail of bullshit!

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 18:22 | 2816429 Precious
Precious's picture

At $12 a pack, seems like people would be motivated to grow their own somehow.

Apparently the American Indians were able to do it 200 years ago.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 22:44 | 2816810 bankruptcylawyer
bankruptcylawyer's picture

a few people in the northeast have tried doing this indoors and have gotten in minor trouble. more salient is the fact that there is massive ciggarette smuggling operations. 1 truckload of smuggled smokes can yield a profit of 2 million just in avoiding taxes. 


the sales of tobacco are supposedly highly regulated. the cost per ton of cured tobacco is about 300 or so per ton as of last year. once that tobacco is chopped up, turned into a cigarette with paper, packaged and shipped to you in nyc, and then tax paid on it. the markup to sale is over 99% of the cost, the 1% is the tobacco cost. 

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 01:54 | 2817032 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

There is no law against growing tobacco for your own use, there is a problem with growing it for sale. Part of the reason it is not done more is that the plant is not all that easy to grow, and it has to be cured, properly air dried, properly cut, and then pretty rapidly used because it goes stale too quickly unless stored in a humidor. Also, smoking from just one plant is not going to taste all that great, though it will give you that nicotine fix you crave, a typical name brand cigarette has tobacco in it from many plants from many regions and countries. Then there is tobacco mosaic, and pests. It can be done but it is not your average gardener's project. If you are healthy, active, have a lot of time on your hands for gardening, and have room for a largish garden with good soil you could do it. But, 4 six foot plants will yield about a carton worth of smokes, and the drying process takes 3 months minimum and preferably a year, some people let it dry for two years. Upside is it is probably healthier than commercial cigarettes because those have undisclosed additives and chemicals. And once you have a supply grown and keep that going the costs of smoking will go way down.

What really surprises me is that there is not a thriving black market for it, and that there are not a lot more cartons of smokes falling off the back of trucks. The highest cigarette prices in the world are in Ireland at about $13.50 a pack, and though they banned smoking in all public places and made the cost simply prohibitive it has not done a whole lot to end smoking. It has fueled smuggling though. For many non smokers this is a great thing, the government telling people they can't smoke, raising the prices to the point of confiscation. Unfortunately for them once the government found out they can tell the smokers to go to hell it became clear that they can also tell fat people what they can and can't drink or eat and in what amounts are acceptable, the super sized soda ban in NYC is just the beginning. By the way, I am pretty sure that that supersize ban has more to do with concession sales at the ball park for Bloomberg's crony republican pals that own teams than about the waistlines of New Yorkers. If a guy sitting down at a ball park with a 12 or 16 ounce soda has to keep going back to the concessions for refills (it gets hot in that stadium sitting in the sun for hours) he is going to smell the hot dogs and snag a couple of those too. Plus, supersize sodas were a lot cheaper per ounce than small sodas, this is going to be a real boon to soda sellers. If I were still living in New York I would just not buy soda anymore. And I would get my smokes via relatives or a friend in a cheap state.

Hey, if my mother could not get me to quit smoking nobody is. The downside is that this just opens the door to the loss of a lot of personal freedoms.


Fri, 09/21/2012 - 04:55 | 2817096 zhandax
zhandax's picture

I am with you that, if my mother couldn't get me to quit, no one else is.   I do have, as of this year, a couple of Samsun Turkish plants growing in the back lawn as a test for what may be necessary in the future (no problem getting burley around here).  But the most important point of your post is the last sentence,

The downside is that this just opens the door to the loss of a lot of personal freedoms.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 07:54 | 2817228 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

the ultimate sick & twisted hypocrisy of Mayor Mikey :

2003 ==  Mayor Bloomberg puts Snapple into every New York school

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 12:56 | 2818422 Precious
Precious's picture

You mean that diabetes inducing high fructose poison called Snapple, owned by Coca Cola?  That Snapple?  OMG.  Mayor Bloomberg.  Thank you.  You really do believe in eugenics.  New York just has too many people.  Pretty soon Mayor Bloomberg is going to start handing out loaded guns.  What a fucking amateur.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 12:16 | 2818267 Mr. Magniloquent
Mr. Magniloquent's picture

It's a common practice for Virginians to purchase cigarettes by the cases and sell the individual packages in NYC. Those with access to military installations in Virginia can even purchase the relatively inexpensive cigarettes tax free. The Quantico Base Exchange actually created a limit on cigarette purchases because of this.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 14:32 | 2818832 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

When I went into the service at 17 smoking was encouraged and the exchange sold cartons for $1.12, about 11 cents a pack.  Turns out some of the brass at the Pentagon had cozy and personally profitable deals with tobacco companies to get millions more hooked.  At one point the rate of smoking in the military was over 70%.  Of course when this conspiracy to hook people was uncovered and made public congress quickly passed a law exempting the government from lawsuits over it.  By the way, that was 1976 when I paid 11 cents a pack, I now pay $5 per pack or an increase of 4,545%.  No inflation my hairy man parts!

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:38 | 2816184 morpheus000
morpheus000's picture

Let people grow their own tobacco and weed :)

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 18:19 | 2816425 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

And sell their own lemonade!

That might be going too far.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 05:58 | 2817133 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture

sadly true as i saw a group of kids getting arrested for selling lemonade....

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 18:00 | 2816379 bank guy in Brussels
bank guy in Brussels's picture

The old TV cigarette and cigar ads were way cool.

And kudos to Tyler for putting up a pic of Don Draper! That's the older America.

Cigarettes in this part of Europe are around € 5 for a pack of 20. Lots of folks roll their own, though.

Here's one of the nice old tobacco TV commercials, for 'Erik' cigars ... 'Flavour comes on like a Viking!' ... '... the most interesting idea from Scandinavia, since the blonde!'

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 20:13 | 2816588 takinthehighway
takinthehighway's picture

My, how times have changed...

From 50 years ago, cigarette commercials during "The Flintstones"...

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:14 | 2816071 MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

The manifesto of the progressive revolution:

Part 2 - Free Trade

Free trade is absolutely and fundamentally immoral and unethical. There is a distinct philosophical difference between a company hiring someone within the borders of a country, and hiring someone outside the borders of a country. It is perfectly acceptable for a company in Texas to hire workers in Montana, but for a company in New York to hire workers in Canada is morally reprehensible. If somebody happens to be born within the United States, and they decide to start a company within the borders of the United States, they are morally obligated to hire other people within those same geographical borders. Geographical location is a fundamental determining factor in whether an action is moral or immoral.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:27 | 2816129 GFKjunior
GFKjunior's picture

Patriotism - The last refuge of a scoundrel. 

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:39 | 2816188 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

Patriotism is right before religion. Religion is the last refuge of a scoundrel. 

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 17:27 | 2816318 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

I tought Israel was the last refuge of a scoundrel.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 20:18 | 2816598 akak
akak's picture

You're very close, but the correct answer is "The US Congress".

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 05:06 | 2817100 zhandax
zhandax's picture

A company should be able to hire anyone, anywhere, they desire.  A corporation, who has grown to a measurable percentage of GDP, primarily as a result of M&A activity bought from wall street, should be either dismembered under anti-trust law, or taxed back into organic company status by statute.  When are you douchebags going to get it through your heads that the M&A-fueled concentration of corporate power was the death-knell for what was left of the republic?

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 17:30 | 2816319 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture


Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:32 | 2816163 MillionDollarBogus_
MillionDollarBogus_'s picture

How much do the NY poor spend on lottery tickets...???

Powerball tickets (poor tax) doubled in price a few months ago...

Life's a bitch when you have to feed addictions...

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 02:11 | 2817042 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Million baller donus, trillion squalor pseudomonas, what ever...up yours you troll.

When someone lays down a buck or two on the lottery they are not seriously buying a chance to win, though it COULD happen, they are buying the right to dream of a better life and security because with wealth inequality and economic injustice in America today that is all they can hope to do, dream about a better life. No tickie no dreamie. When the jackpot grows sufficiently in size that I could walk away after taxes with enough to finish out my life the way I would like to I will buy a ticket or two, but I and most others understand that the real utility of the lottery is not as an investment, it is as a form of entertainment that allows your mind the freedom and security that only a Mittens or Corzine usually gets to enjoy. And, with a lottery win you are not going to have to live with the knowledge that you looted the nation or stole from anyone, the bucks come from willing players who all know that any six numbers can lose when they lay that greenback down.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 17:40 | 2816354 TheCanadianAustrian
TheCanadianAustrian's picture

"Geographical location is a fundamental determining factor in whether an action is moral or immoral."

Lol. This is the good stuff.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 20:11 | 2816587 vic and blood
vic and blood's picture

Change "geographical borders" to national borders and I can agree with your statement although it is a little over the top except as sarcasm.

MDB, the ultimate sarcastic poster, is a true Libertarian and believes in open borders. We can't even take care of our own and you want open borders until per capita income is roughly equal world wide. Let us import a foreign national to perform whatever parasitic enterprise that you engage in for your bread. If national borders are so insignificant, then your own property line borders are even less significant. How 'bout I camp in your yard because your place is closer to the jobs?(and your fridge, su fridge mi fridge) You won't mind if I bring along a few hobos from their present geographical location to your geographical location because only a petty person would lower themselves to fuss about geographical locations. Everybody knows geography is for zenophobes.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 23:02 | 2816854 bankruptcylawyer
bankruptcylawyer's picture

free trade is a myth. making fun of people who are against 'free trade' as such underlies the greater ignorance that you are displayign by mocking a fake dichotomy. 

trade revolves around soveriegn will power. which itself exists as in the always dynamic state of of inter-soveriegn relationships which is and has always been punctuated by war. 


it's like talking about human being marrying without talking about how they are born and how they die. marraige is an epiphenomena of life. just as trade is an epiphenomena of the state. 

you could take the globalist position of 'chicken or the egg' and say that the 'state' is an epiphenomena of trade. you wouldn't be entirely wrong. you just wouldn't be correct in saying the 'state' if a result of 'free trade'. it is a result of mutually beneficial and agreed upon trade. trading is a compeititon, often defined by decpetion, misdiretion violence, and even outright fraud. you could call it free if you'd like. just doens't seem apt in explaining the existence of the state. which itself relies upon the monopoly or control of military/police power.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 00:03 | 2816945 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

MDB tells the truth: "Free Trade" in reality presently refers to the diametric opposite of actual free trade, and is in fact immoral and unethical.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 06:00 | 2817134 Ar-Pharazôn
Ar-Pharazôn's picture


can you tell me the definition of free?

it it's free there is no geographical obligations

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:24 | 2816116 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Pride, avarice, lust, anger, gluttony, envy, sloth.

Why does Moochelle leap to mind?

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:27 | 2816131 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

" in a society in which the only peddled hope of regaining the American dream is graduation with an advanced pottery degree" whoah FUK, ZH is GOD when it prints this language.  Said it to 1000+ people: the best blog in the Keynsian universe... you know who. Our entire PA pool wants to go hardcore with TD.  Pleeze, physical address, pleeze.   We will send them one after another.  

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:13 | 2816059 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Cue Mr. bloomberg, outlaw cigs, that will show em.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:25 | 2816123 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

You can't buy a 16 oz soda, but you can fucking smoke - my head's going to explode.  Yes, I'll be sure to upload a video to youtube - and just for kickers label it something like Mohammed's Head Asplodin

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:31 | 2816159 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Manhattan leads the world in Tranny Bars.  There's your opening panning shot;)

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:40 | 2816194 Tijuana Donkey Show
Tijuana Donkey Show's picture

New York, the big Adams apple....

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 17:14 | 2816278 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

Speaking of New York, I was driving through Iowa recently (heading for NY, see there's a tie in) and came to find out when stopping at a rest stop that smoking was banned therein.  The nice lady servicing the place -- a smoker herself -- told me of the ban.  Sure enough, there on the sign it read:

"Smoking is banned at all Iowa rest stops except in your car with the windows rolled up."

I read it in near disbelief then turned to our fair lady and said "Isn't it ironic that smoking is banned here, yet the biggest threat to the local air quality is I-80 located about 20 yards away?"  She smiled.

Next step -- which of course I fully endorse -- is that we can all drive on I-80 through Iowa as long as your tailpipes terminate in the passenger cabin... with the windows rolled up, of course.

God, help us.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 18:33 | 2816447 Precious
Precious's picture

One time I smoked a cigarette at an Iowa rest stop right in broad daylight.  

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 18:38 | 2816453 Ignatius
Ignatius's picture

As did I.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 20:30 | 2816615 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

I dont smoke, but if ever in that SHIT FASCIST state I will puff like a 19th century locomotive laboring up Brady's Bend.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:47 | 2816219 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

Egypt has issued a warrant for your arrest

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:27 | 2816130 kaiserhoff
kaiserhoff's picture

Hell yes, and caffeine too.  Think of the DRAMA;)

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:58 | 2816248 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Yes, they should tax caffeine as that is also a drug.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:30 | 2816150 Sofa King
Sofa King's picture

No way. The city makes to much on smokes. All this shows is that social engineering is plain crap and an excuse to shake down citizens. I'm just waiting to see the tipping point where stores and people start getting robbed over a pack of Lucky's.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:41 | 2816200's picture

Lucky Strike green has gone to war!

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:35 | 2816166 Schmuck Raker
Schmuck Raker's picture

You can't just outlaw cigs, that an infringement of civil liberties.

Cigs should only be sold in packs of 10, or less...that'll do it.

Just common sense really.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:40 | 2816193 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

They do that in UK and some other countries already. Doesnt really help.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:49 | 2816228 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

Just squeezes more money out of the poor.

I can remember ghetto liquor stores in DC selling idividual cigarettes for 25-35cents when they were selling packs for under $2.00

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 17:35 | 2816346 Count de Money
Count de Money's picture

They do that in England because PM Gordon Brown bumped the taxes so a regular pack costs over £10 pounds. Smaller packs were a response to the price increase.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 17:59 | 2816377 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

You can buy single cigs from friendly enterpreneurs just about anywhere.

It's a small business opportunity for the underclass!

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 17:05 | 2816259 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Bloomberg will not outlaw cigarettes because now they put Fire Safe Paper on them.  Anyone still smoking American Cigarettes has no choice but to smoke Cigarettes with Fire Retardant in the paper.  It is like smoking their Couch.  Designed to kill them sooner than later.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 02:28 | 2817048 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Nonsense. The self extinguishing cigarettes have rings of thicker paper in bands around the cigarette every few millimeters, not chemical fire retardants. But, you are right about them tasting like your couch, if that couch was used in a frat house for 10 years before you got it, then in a puppy mill for a couple more.

Oregon mandated these self extinguishing smokes a few years back and there was a total firestorm from smokers about it. The goddamned things flaked burning ash and burned unevenly, I think more people died in car wrecks trying to put the fires out in the crotch of their pants when the cherry fell out which they often did, than died in house fires caused by cigarettes these would supposedly stop. You had to hotbox the damned things to keep them going.  At any rate they quietly pulled them from the market and went back to regular smokes.

The problem for the smug self serving non smokers in the country is this, you may feel superior, fuck it you may actually BE superior, but if the government and disapproving citizens can do this to us just imagine what they can and thus eventually WILL do to you, and when that day comes do not ask a smoker to stand beside you to fight for YOUR rights because I will just smile and say sure, I will give you just as much help as you gave me when it was my freedom they came for.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 08:01 | 2817235 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

As far as I know all States now require Fire Safe Cigarettes.  They include Ethylene vinal acetate copolymer emulsion based adhesive (carpet glue).  They also now include Naphtalene (same ingredients in Moth Balls). They are now more dangerous than ever and compound problems from smoking.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:13 | 2816064 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

retards who smoke deserve to die, and be poor.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:14 | 2816073's picture

Still living and breathing (smoke). Ha ha!

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:20 | 2816100 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture


Smoking Chills... Stress Kills Bitchezz!!!

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:22 | 2816107 john39
john39's picture

the tobacco is not that bad really... its the 5000+ additives, the radiation (yeah, its there), and various other toxins that actually harm you...

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:29 | 2816144's picture

I supplement store bought tobacco with home grown. Looking to increase yield next season.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 17:10 | 2816273 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

Roll your own, brotha. I would like to plant a tobacco plant soon though. Until then, those lovely pouches of American Spirits will do. No additives, no nasty chemicals in the leaf or in the papers. The papers is where they get ya, like ZigZag and all of 'em. Gotta look for some nice flax or rice papers. Hemp is alright.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 18:18 | 2816421's picture

I've been rolling my own since '97. When Obama raised tobacco taxes in '09 I bought 45 cans before the price doubled from 10.00 to 20.00 Two cans left, a few plants in the ground and when that's gone I'll have to step up and give Barry his due.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 20:33 | 2816618 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Wait a year to so and roll em in $20 bills...

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:32 | 2816158 LeisureSmith
LeisureSmith's picture

Grow your own Bitchez, it's easy...Curing is not, but doable.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:52 | 2816235 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

You call that living?  Cough, cough.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 18:22 | 2816430's picture

A little beer will sooth the throat.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 02:35 | 2817052 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Grandfather smoked 3-4 packs a day from age 10 to age 76 when the doctor made him quit, and when he quit he was totally miserable.  He lived 8 more years, but did not enjoy a day of them.  Of course even though he was 84 they listed the cause of death as smoking related COPD.  Hmmmmmm, I wonder if his advanced AGE could have had a contributing effect?  If you ever smoked in your life they will claim that smoking is what killed you.  If you ever saw someone else smoke they will claim second hand smoke was at least a contributing factor.  And they are already starting to discuss the evils of third hand smoke.  WTF? 

What part of freedom do you all not understand?  Is the concept a mystery to you? 

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:33 | 2816133 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

My wife is a smoker who got started when she was 15. She has tried on several occassions to quit, but has not been successful at it. She is however a fantastic mother of three, her kids and  I would hate to see anything bad happen to her. I for one don't see her as retarded, I see her addicted to an insidious product that is designed to hook people for life...however shortened that may be.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:43 | 2816201 RobD
RobD's picture

My mother also started young, 14 I think. She also tried to quit multiple times and failed. She was mostly healthy until kidney cancer got her at 61. Never got to see her granddaughter and only got to hold her grandson a few times. Not sure it was the cigs that caused the cancer but it's a good bet that her immune system would have been better without them.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 17:17 | 2816287 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

1 word folks, CHANTIX.  That shit works.   It wil give you screaming dead baby nightmares, but I smoked a pack a day for 15 years and quit cold turkey using only 1 perscription of the stuff..

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 17:57 | 2816369 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Hope that quit day wasn't yesterday. My neighbor no longer smokes, but he chews nicorette all day like Obama. Doin it for years ! I told him it's a whole lot cheaper to buy some dip.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 18:09 | 2816410 Itch
Itch's picture

Even nicotine patches give you nightmares...i had a fight to the death with a puma in my lounge, i eventually got it into a bin liner while still stabbing the shit out of it, but the more I stabbed it the more it turned into a little white kitten. Then I started to cry inconsolably with guilt for the dead kitten. Psychologically, you have to ask yourself is it worth it.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 19:29 | 2816530 Rainman
Rainman's picture

LOL...that's some funny shit.... I think

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 02:57 | 2817059 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

That shit works for SOME people.  The drug company, Pfizer, says that 44% of people who use Chantix remained smoke free after 6 months.  Independent  studies show it is closer to 14%, and I tried it, along with hypnosis, Zyban, Chinese herbal medicine and accupuncture, nicotine patches, gums, and several time cold turkey. 

I had NO luck with any of them, I was totally miserable, and while I like to live and wish I never started smoking, a permanent state of craving withdrawal is not the life for me.  So I lose a few years, but the 20 or so I have left will have to do.

By the way, I know several people that did take Chantix and quit, quit buying their own smokes that is.  They are always bumming cigarettes and saying shit like "oh no, Chantix really worked, I now can take them or leave them, I like to smoke one occassionally, can you spare one?"  The fact is that Chantix works while you are on it for some people, but you are not supposed to take it more than six weeks.  And it is itself a dangerous drug.  "...the FDA has now received a total of 272 reports of completed suicides by Chantix users."  Probably needed a smoke so bad they slashed their own wrists.

Total adverse event reports now exceed 35,000, of which roughly 10,000 were classified as serious, disabling or fatal, with 1,055 serious events being reported during the 3rd quarter of 2010.

What's concerning is that according to the June, 2000 U.S. Guideline for Treating Tobacco Use and Dependence, Pfizer knew when it designed the original Chantix studies that counseling and support program contacts are highly effective at helping prevent relapse to smoking.

According to the Guideline, quitting programs involving 4 to 8 sessions generate an average 24 week quit smoking rate of 20.9 percent. What's not yet known is whether the Hughes study's dismal 14% rate suggests that Chantix is worthless as a quitting aid.

What Pfizer marketing continues to fail to adequately advise smokers is that unless Chantix use is accompanied by effective and ongoing counseling or support that the user's odds of success are not good. In fact, they're horrible.


Fri, 09/21/2012 - 03:10 | 2817067 Intoxicologist
Intoxicologist's picture

I'm with you.  I've tried it all, and I just plain like to smoke.  If I kack early, I figure, I'll avoid life in a nursing home in my "golden" years. 

If I wind up with a terminal illness, my life is going to end somewhere out in the back 40, and skip the medical establishment entirely. 

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 03:00 | 2817061 Intoxicologist
Intoxicologist's picture

Chantix is some scary stuff, although I know people who've quit after using it.  I tried it, and not only did I get nightmares, but a creeping feeling of unease during my waking hours - like my whole thought processes were being altered.  I shitcanned the stuff after less than a week. The heebie jeebies were too disturbing.

Fast forward a few months, and an acquaintence of mine's mom committed suicide after being on Chantix for about a month.  She made three attempts, and the third time was the charm.  They found her in a lake with half her face eaten off by turtles.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 00:59 | 2819871 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

I took it for six weeks and after about a week I noticed that I did not smoke as much or crave them as much, like I had to remind myself it was time to go have a smoke.  But, as you say, it was a mind altering drug.  So was Zyban for that matter, that stuff messed me up worse than Chantix.  Like the junction between skull and brain was ice, or the top of my head was gone. 

Well, I took the whole six week course of the drug and called the VA for a refill, they sent it.  And about a month into that, which by then clearly it was not working, I had my annual physical.  I told my doctor I only had about two weeks left on my Chantix refill before I ran out and he was just aghast.  You are not supposed to have even one refill and I was working up to my third set of pills.  He told me not to stop taking them all at once whatever I do, cut down to half over the next few days then reduce by splitting pills over a couple more days.  I did not ask what would happen if I just stopped, the look in his eye sort of gave me religion about following his orders. 

How Pfizer got this stuff past the FDA god only knows.

Sat, 09/22/2012 - 01:10 | 2819878 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

had a similar feeling with Zyban, like the inside of my head was wrapped in cellophane.

that was 15 yrs ago and it was then i realized the Pharms were up to no good with the antidepressants.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 18:08 | 2816408 Mine Is Bigger
Mine Is Bigger's picture

I would highly recommend Allen Carr's 'The Easy Way to Stop Smoking."

The book really works.  I was a really heavy smoker, but able to quit without struggle after reading it.

I also know at least half a dozen people who successfully quit after reading the book.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 21:42 | 2816696 Henry Hub
Henry Hub's picture

Mark Twain said: "It's easy to quit smoking, I've done it a thousand times"

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:37 | 2816182 crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

Yeah, your vices are all good--others' vices prove their "retards" and they deserve to die.  You can't go part way down the road of regulating vices--without regulating them all.  As Mises pointed out, once you regulate vices that are bad for you physically, there's no rational way not to regulate more important things -- that is, things that are bad for you mentally, such as books, reading ZH, etc.

"Instead of seeking ways to allow the market … to do its job, most recommendations call for further interventions intended to clean up the unwanted effects of past interventions. [But] each subsequent intervention intended to fix an earlier one will add new distortions and generate new unintended consequences. The free market is not a panacea. It does not eliminate old age, and it won't guarantee you a date for Saturday night. Private enterprise is fully capable of awful screw-ups. But both theory and practice indicate that its screw-ups are less pervasive and more easily corrected than those of government enterprises, including regulatory ones." —Gene Callahan

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:39 | 2816189 morpheus000
morpheus000's picture

Yes it would upset the dual cartel of big business and government hand in hand as they say....

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 18:03 | 2816391 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

No surprise, tho.  You see dozens of posts regularly about changing laws to "discourage" obesity, too.

Liberty itself is just way too risky, unless it's freedom to do ONLY the shit I like.  Everyone else should be taxed, sent to labor camps, shot, etc.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 20:13 | 2816592 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

you know it's bad for you; yet you still do it; you're an addicted monkey whol no longer has control.


i don't care if people kill themselves; i actually think its good stupid people kill themselves; i just:

1) don't want to pay for it, and

2) don't think smokers have the right to pollute my air.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 22:54 | 2816838 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

do you own a car?

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 03:01 | 2817062 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

I was just going to tell the prick to fuck off Tip but I like your response better!

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 07:47 | 2817221 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

you should have read my first response that i deleted :)

if folks like above really want to encourage people to quit smoking, they should realize that the attitudes they're expressing like above are only doing wonders to reinforce the addiction.

but something tells me that really don't people to stop smoking, they just want something and someone to bitch about.   which makes me think that they're probably ex-smokers who are still struggling with their addiction.   if so, then an appeal of and for compassion & consideration would be a hell of a lot more of an effective method.

negative reinforcement (especially when it's combined with gross hypocrisy) only breeds an equal & opposite negative reaction.  if one is willing to consider the esoteric side, nicotine feeds off this energy, which is why it's such a powerful drug.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:05 | 2819128 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

no i don't own a car.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 03:19 | 2817071 Intoxicologist
Intoxicologist's picture

Sounds like the people I encounter who sit down to a valve-closing, 10,000 calorie dinner, washed down with a half-dozen manhattans, then bitch about people who smoke and how it somehow costs them money.   Hello, kettle. 

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 08:24 | 2817304 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture


Yet, I am sure you drive a car or take a bus which pollutes the air for all of us.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 16:06 | 2819131 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

i don't own a car, and i walk everywhere. i live in a city.

Sun, 09/23/2012 - 16:28 | 2822656 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

And yet you still manage to be every bit as annoying as an inconsiderate smoker. 

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:53 | 2816237 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

No they don't deserve that.

I think I'll step outside now and have a smoke myself, before the Francophone Fascist side of my country decides to vote in sympathy with your rather retarded convictions.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 18:29 | 2816436's picture

So I guess there's no point in trying to bum a Gauloise.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 19:01 | 2816493 Urban Redneck
Urban Redneck's picture

hell no!

Marlboro or Djarum

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 18:08 | 2816407 JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

Die and be poor? Sure beats having it other way around! I'll smoke to that!

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 20:00 | 2816574 homme
homme's picture

You're just jealous because it's so *cool*.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:13 | 2816065 Vincent Vega
Vincent Vega's picture

The solutiion is simple and obvious: more regulation. <sarc>

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 19:55 | 2816415 JuliaS
JuliaS's picture

Paul Krugman thinks cancer is caused by isufficient smoking and according to Ben Bernanke free cigarettes are the cure.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:13 | 2816066 crusty curmudgeon
crusty curmudgeon's picture

Sin stocks are indeed recession proof.

Not that we're in a recession or anything.

We laugh at honor, and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. C.S. Lewis

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:19 | 2816096 Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

Smith and Wesson is up something like 112% since 2010.

I'd love to own the stock - but I don't have any money.  I can still afford a gun, though, which last time I more valuable than a 401K or a stock when SHTF.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:23 | 2816114 dobermangang
Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:49 | 2816156's picture

Just remember that you can't eat lead. Well, you can, but that's not the side of the transaction you want to be on.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:24 | 2816119 Tsunami Wave
Tsunami Wave's picture

Regressive taxes - i.e. taxes on alcohol or cigarettes hurt the poor the most.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:13 | 2816067 tallen
tallen's picture

Even Poorer New Yorkers spend 99% of their money on Crack and Heroin.


Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:19 | 2816094 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

Heroin and crack are rich addictions.  The poor sniff glue and drink homemade vodka. 

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 23:10 | 2816869 Nage42
Nage42's picture

Neg.  The truely poor use Krokodil and I dare you to fully watch the YouTube video and not be chilled to your very bones:

"Krokodil: Russia's Deadliest Drug (NSFW)"


I don't have a lot of sympathy for tobacco smokers.  With the information there is out there on its universally-bad effects, anyone with primate-level intelligence should seek self-help, and those who choose to keep doing it in spite of its cost to society should pay through the nose -- 25% of their wealth still isn't enough to cover what their health care will cost everyone else...

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 03:16 | 2817069 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

It is the young that should not start, but unless you ever smoked you have no idea what you are saying, which begs the polite request to STFU!

I was 10 and tobacco distributors used to hand out free mini packs of smokes with 5 cigarettes in them to kids leaving the school each day. A pack cost 22 cents then, and we never had to worry about buying them because we always knew where the unattended vending machines were. Usually gas stations, ask to use the bathroom and they always said yes, most gas stations then did not have the restroom on the outside walls around the corner, they were inside and you had to pass the cigarette machine to get to the bathroom.

I do my utmost not to offend other people, with my cigs or anything else. But the anti smoking fascists have no ability to just be cool and let others live their own lives. The seriously think they have a RIGHT to a life with zero annoyance or bad smells, or whatever. My next door neighbor is like that, she sprays our common stairwell every day with this ghastly chemical Fabreeze shit even though I have never smoked out there or even in my apartment. And I think I have as much right not to sniff her chemical crapola as she does not to smell whatever she thinks she is smelling. She is really old and I think her mind is going. She put a note on my other next door neighbor's wheelie bin garbage can that simply said STINKS! Duh old girl, it is 105 degrees, July in Medford and that can has been out in the sun for a week. But it was 75 feet and downstairs from her apartment. She left me a nasty note about smoking on the stairs but I had not, it was my car in my garage with doors closed. Sorry, that kind of intolerant oversensitivity gets you NO sympathy from me, a stiff middle finger perhaps. Life has smells, get used to it. Maybe it is not my smokes that bother so much but having your head up your ass all day left a tang in your nostrils.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 05:20 | 2817110 Nage42
Nage42's picture

People can quit Crystal Meth if they try and have support (I'm not saying it's easy, but it can be done), so I'm thinking your little "STFU" is a bit of denial.

What you also fail to understand is that people who _don't_ smoke actually still have a sense of smell... so ya, I can smell your shit from miles off, your very body gives off unpleasant tar-ashtray odor that I really don't want to be around, and thus, I don't really want you around if I don't have any choice as to where I am.


For me, if it wasn't for laws (I tend to live in very controlled places, to ensure that others don't tread on me), and if really we were all totally accountable for our own actions, if I was in a place that had smokers around me while I was eating, I'd _make_ them stop and go smoke somewhere that didn't bother me.  And by "make" I mean left-jab their cig into their mouth, right-cross their jawbone out, lead-hand-elbow across their smoking hand, and prolly hammer-anvil gunting elbow for punctuation.


So think on that... cause I know you think others shouldn't mind... but they do.  And there may come a time when others will let you know about just how dissatisfied they are about your habits that affect them.


[disc.] It is important to note that I would never actually do these things as I am a law abiding citizen.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 13:18 | 2818516 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

Hey boiltherich, you should try electronic cigs (not the type sold in convenience stores...they are a red herring to discourage switching...taste like crap), but the type sold online, such as the stardust.  I smoked for 18 years, then quit for 18 years, then started up with electronic cigs.  They actually taste better than the real thing.  They are addictive, but no more harmful than caffeine.

It's called vaping.  Very satisfying, and you won't have to deal with all the unhappy non-smokers. 

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 13:45 | 2818628 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Oh trust me Ray, NAGging bitches will always find some way to fuck with you over something.  They are internally void and deeply unhappy people that seek negative attention because they have driven away any real friends and cannot get positive reinforcement in their lives.  Though granted some are just bored and like fucking with people, and still others are just fucking batshit crazy.  Either way they believe themselves superior to others and feel the need to point that out to every inferior other they happen to come across.  They also suffer from deep seated control issues and insecurities they have to appease even more than a smoker has to appease the craving for nicotine. 

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 13:33 | 2818577 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

and those who choose to keep doing it in spite of its cost to society should pay through the nose -- 25% of their wealth still isn't enough to cover what their health care will cost everyone else...

That's hypocritical. Colon cancer is more prevalent than lung cancer and is related to a poor diet.  But everybody eats junk food, so we just pick on the smokers.  

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 14:09 | 2818724 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

And breast cancer resulting from eating birth control pills like they are Pez, the cost to the rest of society is so high perhaps we should confiscate the wealth of fertile women that decide to use them in order to compensate us for our expenses because after all we know that this thing called life is not about being delighted with the sparkling souls we meet in this world, it is about how much money they DON'T cost us. 

And for that dumb piece of shit Nag who claims only the stupid smoke and should be weeded from the gene pool, shall we start with that famous moron Albert Einstein?  Or all of our founding fathers?  Or one of this sites favorites Ludwig von Mises.  There was a time when more than half of all adults smoked, it cut across all social and economic as well as intellectual and emotional states.  And contrary to marketing and what some would have you think people have ALWAYS known it was not good for the health.  

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 17:53 | 2819394 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

Nag would probably deny a last cigarette to a man facing a firing squad....for the good of the squad.   I started when i was young and worked in construction.  It was hard work, wind, snow, rain, and lots of dangers.  God everyone smoked, it was part of being man.  Tell a General that he can't let his troops smoke.  Right. 

I'm a religious man, so there are many things i deny myself.  But smoking is okay, so is booze in less than poisonous quantities.  I've spent a lot of time in Eastern Europe, and love the freedom there.  Smoking in cafes, drinking a beer along the sidewalk.  People in the US don't realize how bad it's gotten here.  The boiled frog syndrome. 

By and large, smoking has been a habit among men.  I think this is the real crux of it.  Part of the further emasculation of the modern male. 

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:15 | 2816074 CvlDobd
CvlDobd's picture

Quiet please! Darwin at work.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:43 | 2816203 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

Darwin at work?

Reptiles developed wings becuase they needed to get to the top of the trees or fly, kind of Darwin at work?

Humans should have been jumping and wishing to get to the moon, jumping an inch higher every few days an dfew meters every few generations, and after a few centuries they would have evolved blast engines in the arses and shot off in space... kind of Darwin at work?

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:54 | 2816240 CvlDobd
CvlDobd's picture

"Pete, the personal rancor reflected in that remark I don't intend to dignify with comment. But I would like to address your attitude of hopeless negativism."

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 18:00 | 2816381 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

Darwin's theory is about as valid as Bernanke's, that by buying MBS and Treasuries the unemployment rate will improve.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 21:19 | 2816667 CvlDobd
CvlDobd's picture

Yes, it was debunked by the nobel prize winning movie, Idiocracy.


Actually compared to the invisible angry man in the sky who wants 10% of everything you own and created everything including baby cancer and Hitler theory, Bernanke's MBS plan is utter genius!

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 23:15 | 2816876 Nage42
Nage42's picture

Darwin would be at work if tabacco rendered the smoker impotent quite quickly... maybe we can encourage the companies to add that?

Put in a threshold or something, that if you smoke more than 10 per week, over a span of 4 months, then you are rendered perminantly sterile.  There is a reversal process, but it takes 3 months, is mildly painful, and costs $50,000 that is NOT covered by any medical.

Yes, people have a choice, but the cause/effect, benifits vs. conscequences need to be more direct and specific so that people can "make the right choice."

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 03:22 | 2817074 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Great thinking NAG.  Maybe the terminally ugly bitches in the world can be sterilized as well.  Or the dumber posters at ZH.  Hell, why sterilize them, just shoot them, have to love your empathy. 

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 05:25 | 2817112 Nage42
Nage42's picture


People dumb enough to continue smoking in spite of information shows a level of ignorance that should not be propogated if at all possible

Additionally, from a morality base, continued smoking in the face of increasing social pressure shows psychotic tendancies, if not just plain old insensitivity... hardly a desirable trait in society at large.

Then there is just the plain old lack of will to do the right thing or overwhelming vulnerability to addiction... either of which are hardly traits that should be passed on.


I happen to think that procreation should be a right earned, rather than just rampant procreation by whoever makes the most life-planning irresponsible fail choices... but the slippery slope of _who_ makes the choices, and how is the criteria made up holds me back on thinking it's a great idea... like a lot of things, we know what's really right and what's really wrong, but where's the line?  (great Pusifer song that...).


Fri, 09/21/2012 - 13:28 | 2818562 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

"...continued smoking in the face of increasing social pressure shows psychotic tendancies..."


UMMMMM have you read your own words?  By the way, there is no "a" in tendencies, not quite got the hang of spell check eh?. 

So if I do not cave to peer pressure, your pressure, I am at least an inconsiderate bastard with psychotic tendencies and you claim the right to sterilize me? 

As to weeding out stupidity because we all know ONLY the stupid smoke tobacco, I will put my college degrees and the IQ and aptitude scores of my smoking brain up against your non smoking shit for brains any day and twice on Sunday. 

And lastly, natural selection is clearly a concept beyond your pay grade, it just is not up to you to decide who or what get's "passed on" genetically no matter your adolescent (and possibly psychotic) feelings about it. 

Bitch, you need a lot more help than any smoker here.

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 14:14 | 2818750 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Just a last thought for you Nag, non smokers here that think they are so wonderful and superior, but since smoking peaked at about 50% of the adult population there is a fifty fifty chance one of your parents smoked, and at least a 75% chance one of your grandparents smoked.  So you go right on ahead and be the first in line to get those inferior genetics nipped in the bud, I am sure as abrasive and annoying as your personality is the rest of us will be honored to let YOU go first. 

Fri, 09/21/2012 - 01:37 | 2817021 prains
prains's picture



if a chimp calls out your name in a forest does anyone hear it?

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:15 | 2816078 Meesohaawnee
Meesohaawnee's picture

seems today in chicago King goofball Rahm is thinking the same. Shame you idiot. You had no problem handing out 220 mill in tax breaks for dead beat Sears and criminal CME. thats the ticket give to your corporate criminals and take it from the people. gotta love democracy huh?

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:16 | 2816079 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

Waiting for legislation against electronic cigarettes sometime soon. Once you get your vaping gear set up and a flavor of e-juice you like, you can vape for about $1/day. There's no taxes on any of this except sales tax.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:18 | 2816091's picture

I hear they're great after vibrating.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:21 | 2816102 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

Mrs. Spoilsport agrees! 

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:20 | 2816098 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

October 1st, page 2, headline: Mayor's Office: E-Cigs Make You Impotent

December 31, page 58, bottom left corner: Study finds E-Cigs don't cause impotence, Bloomberg does.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:16 | 2816081 Getting Old Sucks
Getting Old Sucks's picture

Only the little people pay a lot for cigarettes.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 18:10 | 2816413 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

It was the year 2000.  There was a massive police raid on a recently landed cargo jet which was delivering mail.

They intercepted about 6 pallets of cigarettes from "" in Switzerland, in violation of Federal law about interference with the mail.

It was obvious even that far back that "laws" in the US were just a convenient excuse to justify the exercise of state power.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:19 | 2816083 Abraxas
Abraxas's picture


Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:17 | 2816087 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

jim grant on pitching general morters...what the fuck is going on....finally he said gold

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:47 | 2816221 RobD
RobD's picture

"general morters" I see what you did there. LOL

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:17 | 2816090 icanhasbailout
icanhasbailout's picture

There's always the black market, which will supply almost any demand for the right price.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:31 | 2816155 Getting Old Sucks
Getting Old Sucks's picture

Black Market?  Here's a story for you.  Princess Cruises who sail out of Brooklyn, NY sell cigarettes in the Duty Free store onboard.  They will sell you a five carton bulk pack for about $125.  The kicker is that you can't use those cigarettes onboard their ship.  They hold them till you disembark back in NY after the cruise.  Forget about Customs even though a person is limited to one carton brought back in the U.S.  The cartons are clerly marked "Duty Free, For Use Outside The United States"  They are making everyone who buys them cigarette smugglers.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:31 | 2816157 Count de Money
Count de Money's picture

And it's quite healthy in NYC. One estimate is that half the cigarettes smoked in NYC are bootlegs (i.e. bought somewhere else).

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:19 | 2816095 Herodotus
Herodotus's picture

If the Federal government really had smokers' health in mind and not tax receipts, they would ban the manufacture, sale, and posession of tobacco within the United States and its territories.



Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:22 | 2816101 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I detest smoking ,but I detest the hypocrisy of the establishment even more. Let's just be honest about it. This isn't about curbing smoking it's  about generating revenue where ever they can. The politicians and the tobbacco company have a captured revenue stream with addictive smokers. It's  a regressive tax on the poor that does nothing but lines the pockets of the political class.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:22 | 2816111 Ralph Spoilsport
Ralph Spoilsport's picture

Then they complain about lower tax receipts when people quit.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:32 | 2816160 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

And not forgetting the bitch about "people living longer because of healthier lifestyles" being a drain on the health welfare system in some Welfare states.



Smokers never grow old Bitchezz ...

coz they die young.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:55 | 2816245 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

Cigar smokers are technically non smokers, even for health insurance purposes as they dont inhale.

They have risk of mouth cancer tough, as doctors would say.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 17:00 | 2816249 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

"Then they complain about lower tax receipts when people quit."

Not a problem.  The state is also into the gambling biz.  What isn't spend on smokes is spent in the slots. 

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 17:20 | 2816302 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

and what is isint spend in the slots is spend on the sluts... But they dont pay taxes?

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 16:40 | 2816197 Zymurguy
Zymurguy's picture

You're right, that's why you'll see legislation that banks on the increased "revenues" from these sorts of taxes.  They'll take money away from a program and create some new bureacracy banking on the increased money coming in from this to help pay the deficit in that program.

Interesting to see those politicians openly admit they are using taxation in an attempt to mold behavior... fooking assholes.  Funny though to see this hurting their constituency more than they expected :)

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 17:16 | 2816285 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

Too right. Addiction only lines the pockets of the political class. 

But you know what? I loved smoking. Marlboro Lights, Gitane, Cafe Creme, H.Upman's cigars, pipes, whatever had a tobacco blend, I smoked it, breathed it, exhaled it, and tasted it in my mouth every single day of my life since my teens. Just absolutely adored it, and giving it up turned me from an easy-going happy go lucky guy with the patience of Buddha to someone who could easily have gone on a killing spree for the merest whisper of an annoying noise. Being a non-smoker (or an ex-smoker) changes you for the worse personality-wise. That is a fact I can verify. 

Sure I can run for more than a mile now without collapsing in a wheezing fit, but the price was too high in terms of all the personal relationships I've soured whilst in the painful throws of withdrawl. Only an ex-smoker would know what I'm talking about - so if your dear wife ever decides to quit, be prepared for a nuclear explosion or two at home.

The smell of a Marlboro wafting from a pretty girl's lips on a Winter's evening. The sweet spice of a good cigar after a meal. The companionship of your fellow smokers shivering outside a building. Yes, it is a filthy habit I suppose, but you have no idea just how much a good tobacco can relieve the pressures of being human, to lift you, to trascend the dark misery of life to a place bright with hope and understanding. Smoking to me was like living in a dirty city after a heavy fall of snow; I knew what lies beneath, yet it gave everything I saw a veil of beauty. So, give those smokers a break. Please stop your faux/real disgust of their habits, and spare a thought at just how worse it could be if we had fewer smokers in the world. 

I gave up for health reasons, but I miss it every day.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 17:47 | 2816360 FeralSerf
FeralSerf's picture

You're not a non or ex-smoker until you don't miss it every day.  Until I got over that hump, I was only a smoker that wasn't currently smoking.

Thu, 09/20/2012 - 18:06 | 2816400 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

That sounds right. Except that "hump" is now over a year long for me. I have a feeling that I might never get over it.

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