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Third Biggest Weekly DJIA Drop In History

Tyler Durden's picture


A dearth of knife-catchers and bottom-callers suggests that our views on a broad swathe of investors being caught unhedged and offside by Bernanke's relative inaction was correct. By the look of today's huge selloff, investors will become increasingly aware of our recent post on the difference (risks) between owning stocks and bonds. The equity market remains a market in chaos as the following charts show. We can only assume they must be extremely good at discounting whatever it is that talking-heads believe on a tick-by-tick basis - just look at the flip-flopping in the last two months (and in 2008/09).

Daily Changes in the DJIA:


And weekly changes in the Dow - this last week is almost a 4 standard deviation move and third largest ever (with 9/11/01 and 10/03/08 the only two larger in absolute size!).


Chart: Bloomberg


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Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:15 | 1698307 Ryman1075
Ryman1075's picture

Getting dizzy, but loving the ride.


Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:30 | 1698377 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

So funny... ZH readers have been calling the top for 3 years now... We are closer to the top than we are to the bottom... but no one here wants to hear that.

Trading is about balance... never one sided.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:45 | 1698468 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

A confirmation bias is a very strong emotion, individually and collectively, thus all your red arrows too.

Davy Jones Is Alive... see that?

yo ho ho, etc...


Troy Davis was a Ritual Sacrifice

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:54 | 1698512 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

How much is red arrows worth, or green?  I'd rather make money, fiat, depreciated silver, gold or otherwise.

BTW, all SEC/Fed/FINRA have to do, is to ban "selling" period.  No more selling, not just short-selling, selling as a general action.  It's their world, we just live in it.

BTW, knife catching comes in at 5-10 minutes before mkt closes... which is about now.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:00 | 1698572 TwelfthVulture
TwelfthVulture's picture


Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:04 | 1698600 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Susie Orman will be out tonight telling her flock of CNBC-like brain dead sheeple to BTFD:

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:34 | 1698754 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Boo on Sue, not you.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:51 | 1698833 buck4free
buck4free's picture

Sort of like in 2006 when she was explaining to everyone how RE was the best investment you could make (outside of a matched 401k) because it allowed common folks to tap 5x+ leverage! I would pay to find that clip...

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 19:00 | 1699226 AustriAnnie
AustriAnnie's picture

Idk about that clip, but this one is a classic: Sue in 2008 about the gold standard:

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 17:07 | 1698889 Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

This week is the 3rd largest weekly downswing in the Dow ever (9/11 and Lehman the others).


This is VERY interesting.  All THREE of these largest weekly downswings have fallen ON THE SAME WEEK on the lunar calendar, e.g., the third week of Elul on the Hebrew calendar:

BTW, you can throw Germany's invasion of Poland and the start of World War Two into the mix!

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:21 | 1698699 Executioner
Executioner's picture

@Mr. "?"

Generally, a green arrrow is a worth reading comment. A red is worth joke: so do you make money thinking like that? riiigghhht...
About the licking the SEC/FINRA/Fed hole, congrats, you're a subservient fool.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:35 | 1698759 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

He was joking about banning all selling...

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 18:18 | 1699089 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

Indeed, I am... 

But here is a bigger joke.  @Executioner's very statment will dictate that you only read things that you like, and not thing that you don't like.  I guess ignorance is bliss, but why are you calling me the a__ licking fool?  

Am I trying to earn red?  No.  Am I aiming to get greens? No.  I am just trying to put it in perspective.  Try to read ZH's disclosure on the lower right hand of your browser, then you might understand what I am trying to do.

"It would be very wise of you to study ourdisclaimer, our privacy policy and our (non)policy on conflicts / full disclosure."

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 18:37 | 1699148 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

When I notice I get too invested in anything going on here (and I have, I admit it) I back off. I like to argue, cheerlead, think, have fun. But if I am taking it too seriously, I need to stop.

Hey, I'll need big (for me) cash in 2 months I don't need now. Should I sell some gold to get it now, or wait out the two months. Come on, waddaya think?

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 18:42 | 1699154 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

sell half of your desired amount now...  

That way you will be half right!

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 20:50 | 1699413 Mesquite
Mesquite's picture

GLD ( a proxy for Au ) is down to the 50dma on 2 & 5 month line charts..

Also: $NDX & $SPX @ support...

Maybe a good place for support...??

Yup, POMO tomorrow...( Goood timing..)

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 21:19 | 1699538 JedSmith
JedSmith's picture

Wait it out a couple months IMO. I could give you all sorts of reasons, but if youre already in gold and post on ZH you probably know all that as well as I do.

This doesnt apply to you MsCreant, but I urge friends/family who are getting into PMs for the first time to do their homework. They need to know and understand in their bones Why theyre in the precious metals for days like today when the emotional juices are flowing like crazy.  On paper my PMs lost a ton today. I much prefer to calculate gains, of course. But even on a day like today, I've done very well with the PMs over the years. So I'm looking to add, especially in the case of silver which was knocked down big time. We'll see what happens in the next few days and go from there.  Best wishes in whatever you decide to do - - -

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 19:24 | 1699275 TwelfthVulture
TwelfthVulture's picture

I missed that.

In my defense, with some of the tin-foil hat/prison planet/alien abduction crowd around here, it's not always as obvious as it should be.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:50 | 1698489 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Wait, what?

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:54 | 1698520 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture



So funny... ZH readers have been calling the top for 3 years now...

Zero Hedge hasn't been around for 3 years. So what readers are you referring to?

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:02 | 1698546 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

Come on CD, I cross path with you for at least the last two...  Are you so hysterically happy that you forgot?  Let Tyler settle this.

Before they had this domain and dedicated server, it was on I may be off by 2 months, but really,  Jan. 2009 makes ZH reader even more wrong.  (In aggregate, of course.)


Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:03 | 1698582 TwelfthVulture
TwelfthVulture's picture

yeah i'm pretty sure i've been coming here for more than 2 prolly close to 3 years now.  sorry, i didn't keep a journal, but i'm pretty sure.  and he's spot on about trading, btw.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:08 | 1698624 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

You didn't address your comment to Tyler, but instead to the top poster. And you pointed to the ZH readership, not Tyler. So what is it that Tyler should settle?

I would say you're using a 10 foot wide brush with that whitewash son.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:18 | 1698647 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

Just the facts:


1.  You are the one that claims that I was wrong and Zerohedge was less than 3 years old.

2.  Zerohedge whois records says Jan. 2009, so that makes it at least 2 years and 8 month at the moment. 

3.  Zerohedge existed on prior to a dedicated server and domain.  

4.  I am pretty sure zerohedge readers are in aggregate bearish since 2008/2009.  (I for one, was as well.)

5.  I am probably older than you.

6.  My post directly address the initial story, which is about knife catching and Dow largest drop and what not... I just want to point out the big picture...

7.  Tyler can settle EXACTLY how long Zerohedge as a community exisited and reader base tenure online.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:28 | 1698738 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture

Ok ok. I give up. I admit it. You DO have the biggest ego here. And I just have an itsy bitsy one. You beat me.

My apologies. :)

Thank you for stopping by and playing ZeroHedge the game.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:31 | 1698748 Spastica Rex
Spastica Rex's picture

Oh, come on - this is such an interesting debate, don't stop now! Nah, just kidding. ;)

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:43 | 1698776 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

CD.  It is not about Ego... it is about facts... get yours own straight before you accuse of others.

You are almost always posting on every thread, but I appreciate the concession, even backhanded one.

It is all a game... some long, some short, some matters and some don't.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 17:11 | 1698904 fuu
fuu's picture

Here is the earliest blogspot post from 1/9/09:


Try harder.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 17:53 | 1698993 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

Are you sure it is not because the tape backup stops at 2009 for

The whois record on zerohedge is already Jan. 2009...  (If anything, I bet your information is incomplete.)

So, which is it, am I wrong by 4 months?  (We already established the lower bound of is at least 2 years and 8 months.)

Or am I right and you are focusing on inconsequential details?  Regardless, Zerohedge reader community are generally bearish for the last 2 years and 8 months and we don't like to be reminded of how wrong (and financially costly.) it has been. 

Even if S&P goes to 666, "generally" we are still wrong for 2.5 years plus!  Admit it!  Gotta love the internet, a little knowledge and tool is mightly dangerous....

BTW, I remember when everybody has to go to because the license "expired"and ownership got switched...  In any case, that is not the point!

"Do or do not, there is no try!"...



Thu, 09/22/2011 - 18:00 | 1699044 Crisismode
Crisismode's picture

On 1/8/09 the SPX closed at 1144


Today, 9/22/11 the SPX closed at 1129


And your point would be?

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 18:29 | 1699072 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

The same point as I am trying to make in my initial post.

Much ado about nothing...

If nothing else, I wish ZH would be more "balanced" (like Fox... wink wink.) when it comes to cover market statistics...

Like... CHECK OUT SILVER, or SLV, or that damn .RISKBASKET trade that you rebalance EVERY 60 days and call it spot on!!!

Let's introduce this measure... and I give you all the SPX closing prints and the dates that you chose.

# of days the SPX close is above your reference point, call that @ABOVE

# of days the SPX close is below your reference point, call that @BELOW.

# of reference point.

I bet money that for the last 2.5 years to 3 years to however long Zerohedge is in session, the raio is higher and @BELOW is higher than @ABOVE.

I think that translate directly into your pain, assuming you hve the margin and shorted on the first day....  

(The above is TWAP on number of days.  We can do VWAP or any meaning weighting scheme and I think I am still right.)

What is your point?


Thu, 09/22/2011 - 17:50 | 1699005 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

So funny... ZH readers have been calling the top for 3 years now... We are closer to the top than we are to the bottom... but no one here wants to hear that.

That is not correct.

I don't post as often as others, but surely read as often here through the years.  Although you post eloquent, calming and unemotional rebuttals in this thread to support your initial statement (highlighted above), the problem is, your initial statement (I would say "argument", but feel you truly were not seeking debate based upon sentence structure) is flawed to start.

Please allow me to elaborate.  "ZH readers" on average have not been calling tops, but rather calling out the corruption, hubris, arrogance, ignorance, greed and outright engineered criminal intent and execution in global markets, government and industry.  It is not too often (in context to intent of this website) where I witness "readers" focusing on "calling the top".

Your "trading" statement may have merit, albeit not in context with facts regarding your intended audience.

School adjourned.


Thu, 09/22/2011 - 17:58 | 1699036 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

Fair enough, ZH posters then...  

Is this a finance site or compliant hotline?  

You have to give me that the general community, due to the aforementioned malfeasence, are tilted toward being bearish... and yet, the market has been up!  (Jan. 2009, Jan. 2008...  doesn't matter..)  TWAP/VWAP, however you want to weight it, the equity market is up!

So you lose money if you are short.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 19:10 | 1699241 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture


Thu, 09/22/2011 - 19:25 | 1699283 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

Make me.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 19:43 | 1699322 Absinthe Minded
Absinthe Minded's picture

If you've been paying attention, we buy gold and silver, physical only. I'm pretty sure I'm up since my silver dollar cost averaging I paid about $22 an oz. My gold about $1200 an oz. So unless we get one hell of a drop, which I'm not ruling out, I think I, as well as my cohorts here at ZH, have done allright. I like our chances though.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 18:22 | 1699110 fuu
fuu's picture

I'd give you a green but you started with itallics and the bug prevents me.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 18:50 | 1699186 anyways
anyways's picture

well observed. Not sure ZH programmers know that.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 19:28 | 1699293 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

So, basically, he/she gives her/him self a green.


Thanks for the observation.  @fuu.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:38 | 1698427 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

What's that on the Richter Scale?

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:54 | 1698527 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

Are you trying to make a couple of points?

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 19:45 | 1699324 Absinthe Minded
Absinthe Minded's picture

Well dot my eye!

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:03 | 1698499 MacGruber
MacGruber's picture

Now comes the predicable ramp into the close. I am really curious about who the masked savior is, it's gotta be some gov't funded op.

Love the salad tossers on Bloomberg right now, they have two sell side douchebags competing for misinformation. Favorite quote: "Euro banks are underfunded, but American banks... they are overfunded. They just aren't lending because of the [stupid] regulators". Riiiiight. Soo overfunded.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:30 | 1698744 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Look at the SPX volume at 3:38 and right at 4:00 p.m..


Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:06 | 1698613 offensetaken
offensetaken's picture

"This last week is almost a 4 standard deviation move and third largest ever." It makes me wonder who could have predicted a move this large in time to take advantage of it. A move of this size must have been, at least in part, affected by the vast amounts of money pumped into the economy by the QE strategy of the Fed. Really what that strategy did was prop up the economy on very weak stilts. Like an elephant standing on an average wooden chair. The economy was bound to break its support. I will bet that every futures trading professional trading the Mini Dow Jones was caught off guard and with their pants down. Yes this fall came during a normally volatile FOMC week but 4 standard deviations?? Personally I expect a bounce. Not sure how large the bounce will be but it is definitely going to happen. As the saying goes, what goes up must come back down. I believe the inverse of this is true for the markets. An economy doesn't lose real value this quick and the market will correct itself.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:51 | 1698829 MichaelG
MichaelG's picture

"Real value?!?" Speak English, boy.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:16 | 1698309 Edward Fiatski
Edward Fiatski's picture

I'm looking forward to the 2008 levels of oscillations.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:16 | 1698310 PicassoInActions
PicassoInActions's picture

range bound, good oportunity to stay in the middle

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:53 | 1698515 AbelCatalyst
AbelCatalyst's picture

technicals work until the baby boomers start to sweat... there's millions of those little bastards sitting on the edge of their seats ready to sell!  5 years from retirement, this week just pushed out retirement 2 years, and they're beginning to panic...  If we don't get a snap back, watch the outflows from Mutual Funds - that's when the REAL fun begins.  This is just a warm up...  

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:16 | 1698312 Minoan
Minoan's picture

Did anyone notice the

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:41 | 1698446 homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

Yep. Turned that off ASAP.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:53 | 1698513 mfoste1
mfoste1's picture

sorry im too busy talking shit to james altucher on twitter.......

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:17 | 1698317 spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

Volatility is antifragile, central planning is anti-volatile and therefore highly fragile.

Nassim Taleb, bitchez. 

Policing the world has the same problem — it removes all the natural volatility. 

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:18 | 1698319 Cliff Claven Cheers
Cliff Claven Cheers's picture

I'm waiting for the ramp of 400 pts into the close.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:19 | 1698325 PicassoInActions
PicassoInActions's picture

me too, should close near 250-300 or 550-600

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:23 | 1698348 TwelfthVulture
TwelfthVulture's picture

pomo 2morrow

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:37 | 1698420 PicassoInActions
PicassoInActions's picture

guess will hold the position open then.

But how much pomo will move from todays low?

Either way we screwed.

Hopefully some more rumors will come out before asian markets are open

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:48 | 1698480 TwelfthVulture
TwelfthVulture's picture

Tough call.  I don't really see death & destruction though.  Hard sell-off at open and while rest of day generally downward, seems more a bit of a meandering sell-off as opposed to violent dumping.  I mean on the DOW first 10 minutes went from 11.1 to 10.8, rest of day from 10.8 to 10.7 now.  Plus, I see a lot of high div yield stocks down for day but not much changed.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:18 | 1698322 alien-IQ
alien-IQ's picture

I love volatility in the same way I love bi-polar nymphomaniac supermodels.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:21 | 1698340 the not so migh...
the not so mighty maximiza's picture

Here ,here, 

Bullion, Beans, Bullets, Beer, and Bi-polar nymphomaniac supermodels

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:22 | 1698324 mynhair
mynhair's picture

I call bottom!

In TMV (please please please).


Lost a buck 20 on yesterday's, but jumped back in at 14.50.

Still have a good foot to shoot.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:19 | 1698327 Barb Dwire
Barb Dwire's picture

It's efficient volatility. They get you coming and going.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:19 | 1698330 JohnG
JohnG's picture

This is just plain fugly.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:21 | 1698335 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Inflation is instability. The bigger the range of numbers, the further up and down things can move. I don't know if that is relevant or not but it seems that you end up watching change at a different "view" because of it.

Deflation would make this stable.

Deflation is what we need.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:20 | 1698336 citrine
citrine's picture

"Efficient Market" is the term that comes to my mind a lot these days

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:31 | 1698386 Haddock
Haddock's picture

Are they still teaching the balderdash of 'efficient markets', or is HFT the basis now. Serious question really.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:02 | 1698581 citrine
citrine's picture

Yep. As a part of CFA program.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:22 | 1698342 Coldcall
Coldcall's picture

This sort of volatility is absolutely a demonstration of an efficient market. In fact there is no difference between these huge swings and the sort of dynamics seen in chaotic systems. The system is not in a state of equilibrium and these swings are an effort to find a stable range.

It is truth, and the babbling economists with their harvard 101 in economics models are like classical phycists before the discovery of quantum mechanics. Wrong wrong and wronger.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:32 | 1698392 CvlDobd
CvlDobd's picture

I'd like to up vote this twice.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:59 | 1698852 MichaelG
MichaelG's picture

I didn't understand a word of it, but voted it up so you could realise your dream.

MichaelG, DSc (Econ)

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 04:27 | 1700203 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

The more it swings to find equilibrium and a stable range, the more unstable the participants of the chaos become. Heisenberg's Uncertainty Principle leaves the trader uncertain whether to sell or hold or add to his position.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:24 | 1698343 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Perhaps my fear would be realized more dramatically if the "scary charts" could be read all the way over to "the scary side." Instead I get ran-squawked and comment news. (not that I'm complaining of course! Holloween's right around the corner!)

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:21 | 1698693 duncecap rack
duncecap rack's picture

I right click and then choose view image. I am not sure if that is a feature of firefox or windows.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:38 | 1698771 MichaelG
MichaelG's picture

Aye, just click on them or open in a new window. Occasionally they misdirect to a live feed of SEC midget tranny porn, but I've had therapy for that, which helps the service economy.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 19:54 | 1699346 Absinthe Minded
Absinthe Minded's picture

Must be an Ipad user like myself. Great speed of surf, but downright fucking annoying sometimes.

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 03:53 | 1700193 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture


Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:23 | 1698350 kito
kito's picture

holy mother of metals, ag is down amost 11 pct!!!! 

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:26 | 1698363 JohnG
JohnG's picture

That's some bullshit, eh?  On sale anyway, just broke -500.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:41 | 1698441 r101958
r101958's picture

..and there you have it......real price discovery? Now that the TBTF's have had to cash in their paper holdings maybe we can get an idea of where the price is really at and not their 100+/- playground.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:46 | 1698474 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

That's painful ...

Silver Bid: 35.73 Ask: 35.83 Change:  -4.66
Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:25 | 1698352 Cliff Claven Cheers
Cliff Claven Cheers's picture

-488.65 (-4.39%) Do you think this is what Ben had in mind for today.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:29 | 1698376 Don Smith
Don Smith's picture

Yes - it clears the way politically for much more printing.

No - he really didn't see that coming...

Cast your votes...

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:25 | 1698355 fdisk
fdisk's picture

draw SILVER CHART instead. Damn thing collapsing $1 per hour.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:26 | 1698365 jomama
jomama's picture

veritable bloodbath.


Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:42 | 1698450 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Paper metal traders getting hauled off in body bags.  Good riddence.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:34 | 1698752 ZeroPower
ZeroPower's picture

Phys silver follows the same price, FYI

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 17:10 | 1698893 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Which is why I am happy when they get slaughtered.

They shall not have died in vain!

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 19:19 | 1699267 TwelfthVulture
TwelfthVulture's picture

shorted gld & slv yesterday.  did rather well today actually.  prolly long 2morrow.  how's that work w/ physical, exactly?

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 17:54 | 1699020 Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

Until it doesn't. For now, I'm happy to buy at a discount, even though for my means it's only a handful of oz a month. 

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:44 | 1698459 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

I just bought a fuck ton more @ $1730 and $36.

Hope I didn't shoot myself in the foot before more downside.

I only allocated 50% of my cash position. I just don't see this lasting. The money has to go somewhere out of stocks and bonds, but maybe I'm wrong. Maybe it will be 100% cash by the bell Friday.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 17:02 | 1698879 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I admit I am scared here. I will need a lot of cash in a couple of months, but not now. "Should I go ahead and liquidate the portion I need, or just hold?" I stare at charts and news and think too much right now.


Thu, 09/22/2011 - 17:11 | 1698899 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Keep cash for when you need cash.  This roller coaster ride won't be over any time soon.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 18:40 | 1699155 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Thanks. I feel like you are right. I keep watching for a bump up to sell and it keeps going lower!!

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 22:24 | 1699728 Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

If you need the cash, in a couple of months, and you already know it, then go ahead and change it over.

I know I missed the top in copper in 2008, and when I needed to liquidate it, there were no buyers- I had a couple hundred pounds of scrap, and the only offer I got was $15 for it.  Of course, it went back up- but by then, I no longer needed the cash.

That is the one downside of physical- it's limited somewhat by geography, and when someone buys it, they know they need to have a place to store it until it's time to sell.  I know I don't need the cash for my silver, so I am content to just hang onto it until the price is right to sell or trade it- but if I knew I needed cash instead, I'd be letting it go to avoid it becoming illiquid at the wrong time.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:29 | 1698357 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Going....going.....going.....move it BAC!


Yippee!  Scored a 100 at 6.

That'll doom it fer sure.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:26 | 1698358 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Panic selling now setting in. Anyone on margin is now....Gone!

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 18:17 | 1699094 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

Bullion banks should be coming in with short covering any time now. 

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:26 | 1698359 Calculo Ergo Sum
Calculo Ergo Sum's picture

Still not the point where I'd say to stocks "jump fakkers!"

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:26 | 1698361 High Plains Drifter
Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:26 | 1698362 OrdellRobbie
OrdellRobbie's picture

Gold and Silver are down despite the worsening EU crisis, dollar now a safe haven.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:33 | 1698396 John McCloy
John McCloy's picture

Right but Gold & Silver as expected will take deflationary hit but are considerably higher than years ago because dilution is dilution and gold and silver are always taking that into account. The dollar is a safe haven regardless of poison fundamentals because we must always remember we have a nation that cannot be invaded, dominance of all seas and a military which cannot be matched. Our paper will always in an end of world global event such as war trump every other paper currency. 

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:34 | 1698404 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Investors as crazy as ever. Dollar as safe heaven : biggest joke of the century.... and that's what it's gonna be in the history books... just below the ``biggest scam in history``... yes... even above the ``Tulip Mania``.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:28 | 1698368 monopoly
monopoly's picture

Obama must be shitting in his pants. Official unemployment at 10% on election day. Maybe he will be gone.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:33 | 1698398 fdisk
fdisk's picture

Maybe but GOP Monkeys not even better, look at them today,
again talking about .GOV shutdown. Useless garbage, everything
collapsing and they still playing around like bunch of kids..
Nothing is going on.. With such "leadership" nothing going to

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:38 | 1698426 TwelfthVulture
TwelfthVulture's picture

REAL leadership WOULD shut the government down.  Don't worry, you won't see that.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:46 | 1698471 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

If it shuts down for any length of time, you will have shitshow of biblical proportions. Be careful what you wish for.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:52 | 1698497 TwelfthVulture
TwelfthVulture's picture

Seriously doubt that.  The world will not end when the US gov goes on sabbatical.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:25 | 1698722 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Belgium seems to be doing fine.  I haven't heard of any roving motorcycle gangs or cannibals running around there.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:43 | 1698796 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

The difference is the way the goverment operates, the bureaucrats can run Belgium without need of the Legislative branch. Very different here, no continuing resolution combined with debt ceiling limits, the gubbmint basically defaults in 5 weeks IIRC....No SS, Food stamps etc, do you think that will play out well??

Do you think FAA employees are going to work without pay? Air traffic grounded. Lets see what the border looks like without Customs agents....

And just wait till the Armed Forces find out they ain't getting paid....

Like I said, be very careful what you wish for....

I will say this, that if the Republicans fuck this up, they will pay dearly in 2012....All they have to do is sit back, don't rock the boat and they will clean up in 2012 (for no good reason except that they will skirt the blame for the past 3 years, it is not as if they did anything to deserve to be elected.)

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 17:12 | 1698905 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Default!=no-one gets paid.

Look to Iceland for a good example of what default can bring.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 17:15 | 1698916 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Your ignorance of how the US government works compared to most other countries is showing.....The US is very different from most "functioning societies"

And to equate Iceland with the US is not a good basis for an argument.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 19:26 | 1699287 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture


Obama, Reid, and Pelosi held all the power for over one year. They could have addressed the debt issue, SS demographics, fair tax reform, unemployment.

 They had the WH, The House, and the Senate and did nothing to address the issues which are now being debated.

They spent the entire year creating Obama Care. Two thousand pages of progressive-facism.

Blaming the GOP is ignorant. Blaming the Dems is also ignorant. R-V-D is a waste a time.

But a year wasted by Obama, Reid and Pelosi is simply corrupt and indicative of their priorities which is National Socialism.

 We all know how that worked out-50+ million dead and keeping in power regimes that then went on killed another 20+million in for the sake of Progressive ideology.


Thu, 09/22/2011 - 20:42 | 1699456 Flakmeister
Flakmeister's picture

Hey they fucked up... partly due to Obama listening to Summers....No disagreement, but you are fucking moonbats if you think that this has anything to do with National Socialism. Learn some history, and preferably not from Glen Beck clone power point presentations....

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 03:49 | 1700191 bid the soldier...
bid the soldiers shoot's picture

If America goes to the polls in November 2012 and things aren't any better than they are now, maybe we won't get National Socialism, but we will get National something. Close your eyes and open the dictionary to any page. Stick a pin on the page. Tack that word after National. That's what we get.

And if it ends up resembling NS because the economy still sucks, that's history for you.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:58 | 1698554 moldygoat
moldygoat's picture

Do you think he cares? I say he wants to lose or will ordered to anyways. He knew what he was getting into when he wore the blindfold in the steam room. Only a new 9/11 could save this colostomy sack.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:29 | 1698373 Golden Receiver
Golden Receiver's picture

bipolar nymphomaniac super models... would you settle for two out of three?

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 17:23 | 1698937 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Were you LMAO?

I think I found it.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 18:51 | 1699188 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

I think supermodel is the top criteria.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 20:43 | 1699458 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Did you notice Golden Receiver has a butt for his avatar? My joke was in relation to the idea that he had Laughed His Ass Off. ;-D

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 20:50 | 1699467 What does it al...
What does it all mean's picture

Uh, no.

But how do you know it is a he?

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:29 | 1698375 Cliff Claven Cheers
Cliff Claven Cheers's picture

Do you think it is just long covering?


Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:30 | 1698378 CvlDobd
CvlDobd's picture

Hey we still have one day and 30 minutes to beat those records!


Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:31 | 1698384 monopoly
monopoly's picture

I am down over 7% today but I have to smile. Gold at 1725, miners will report stellar earnings and all are down 5 to 14 percent. What logic. Of course in markets like these there is no logic.

Thank goodness timmaay said all is OK.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:31 | 1698387 Whatta
Whatta's picture


Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:32 | 1698391 RSloane
RSloane's picture

That is the ugliest thing I've seen since my cat's anus exploded.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:34 | 1698400 Mutatto
Mutatto's picture

Considering the usual "market crash" structure, this 500 point drop is still VERY early in the waterfall!!!



Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:34 | 1698401 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Oblunder opened his piehole

WASHINGTON (Dow Jones)--President Barack Obama, using as a backdrop a bridge that spans the states of two of his main political rivals, called out by name House Speaker John Boehner and Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell and said they are either with him or against him in getting his new jobs bill passed.


"They can either kill this jobs bill, or they can help us pass this jobs bill," President Obama said. And he shouted later, "There's no reason to stand in the way of more jobs. Mr. Boehner, Mr. McConnell, help us rebuild this bridge."

President Obama said, jokingly, it's "purely accidental" that he chose to speak at the Brent Spence Bridge, a major transportation artery that connects Ohio and Kentucky and has been labeled functionally obsolete. President Obama said his new jobs plan would provide states with billions of dollars to update the nation's aging infrastructure.


That damn bridge again..........


Everybody is bound by the rules to have a shot now.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:42 | 1698453 Eagle Keeper
Eagle Keeper's picture

The problem with our government is they have already burned all their bridges....

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 20:50 | 1699468 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

EK, au contraire mon acquile:

"The problem with our government is they have already burned all their bridges...."

Why, Our Dear President has  press availability at the really safe bridge between KY and OH.  Not burned, nor all.

How'd that happen?  Inquiring minds whsh to know.

- Ned

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 23:06 | 1699813 ceilidh_trail
ceilidh_trail's picture

His little bridge stunt screwed up my commute today. I think he pissed off a lot of commuters with his afternoon timing.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:34 | 1698405 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Now what rumor is floating out there?

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:37 | 1698421 fdisk
fdisk's picture

F*cking Bernank deliberately trash the Markets, I'm not
be surprised, if they did short few 100 billion $ worth, before
yesterday "trash" talking. Gotta rise money somehow:
now you can believe Obama "It's all paid for" There you have it.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:37 | 1698424 mt paul
mt paul's picture

And weekly changes in the Dow - this last week is almost a 4 standard deviation move and third largest ever (with 9/11/01 and 10/03/08 the only two larger in absolute size!).

that's a big walrus there... polar bears like to eat walrus also respects their fearlessness ..

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:39 | 1698434 drink or die
drink or die's picture

Google Trends

September 22, 2011


  1. daphne guinness   2. x factor judges   3. ted haggard   4. f8   5. meg whitman      6. law and order svu   7. revenge   8. rick santorum   9. michelle malkin 10. death penalty
Thu, 09/22/2011 - 17:05 | 1698884 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

11. sites to see up my ass

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 20:51 | 1699471 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

... er ... not in public madame ;-)

Fri, 09/23/2011 - 09:25 | 1700739 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Naughty Bacon. I was infering that folks had their heads up their butts and would be googleing that. But alas, I guess I did set myself up.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:41 | 1698445 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

I love how the CNBC 'Breaking News' section can't keep up with the actual market moves. volatility, bitchez!

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:43 | 1698458 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

thats like being on the same list as Willie Mays , Joe Dimaggio and Ted Williams

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:46 | 1698470 r101958
r101958's picture

Looks to me like TPTB want to hold 10700 and 1120 because there is certainly a lot of reasonless buying going on in spurts.

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:46 | 1698473 Edward Fiatski
Edward Fiatski's picture



Now we get margin calls to justify the aforementioned measures in October. :)

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:46 | 1698476 Jan Modaal
Jan Modaal's picture

The charts look seismographic

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:48 | 1698481 somethingelse
somethingelse's picture

ugh   looks like MSM will get their "but closed well of the lows" comments in that they love to make ad nauseum

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:09 | 1698633 somethingelse
somethingelse's picture

lol  called that one: 

from CNBC:  BREAKING NEWS:  Dow Finishes Down More Than 380 Points but Off Earlier Lows

man how they love that "off the earlier lows"  sun-will-come-out-tomorrow-it's-bad-but-it's-getting-better-bullshit
Thu, 09/22/2011 - 19:17 | 1699259 andybev01
andybev01's picture

"Drowned mans body found floating a foot off of the pool bottom."

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:52 | 1698496 The Deleuzian
The Deleuzian's picture

Sabina, US Silver Corp, Orko, SilverMex, Kimber, Mines Mgmt, South American, Fortuna, etc... Down huge today!  I wish I had more money...I'd buy these bastards but they might get cheaper!

Fortuna was down 20% early this morning...WOW!!  These are going to make people lots of money going forward...Takeovers are looking Bullish to say the least!!!

Monster boxes are $2000 less today... I'll try to scrape up and start there first when it levels out!

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 15:54 | 1698528 r101958
r101958's picture

...mispelled, right? ....should be 'delusion'?

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 16:14 | 1698659 The Deleuzian
The Deleuzian's picture

Spelling was never my strong point, but buddy! You gotta be in it to win it!

Thu, 09/22/2011 - 17:01 | 1698875 tip e. canoe
tip e. canoe's picture

win what?

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