Presenting How Wells Fargo Nickel And Dimes Clients To (Account) Death

Tyler Durden's picture

Despite the recent humiliating defeat for the TBTF bank proposal to establish debit fees, the bailed out banks are still somehow supposed to make money now that their prop trading desks can no longer mimic hedge funds and trade ahead of flow or on "expert network" inside information (and old school revenue generation like advisory and underwriting is just too much work). So what do they do? Why nickel and dime clients to death. As the following interactive graphic from the Pew Trust demonstrates, in a recent example where it was caught red-handed, Wells Fargo literally tried to nickel and dime a client (who subsequently sued) to death, by shifting the order of debit transactions in a way that maximized the penalty fee, ignoring the actual chronological order. In other words, banks have a "malicious" algorithm designed to maximize client pain, while ignoring actual sequence of events. The net result an overdraft balance that is 4 times higher than what it would have been if proper temporal sequence had been followed. And that is why banks are desperate to pickpocket their clients: because once news of such practices is made public, everyone should pull their money. That they still don't is quite incomprehensible.

As Pew notes:

The Transaction Infraction graphic demonstrates how banks can post debits and withdrawals in non-chronological order – a practice that can greatly impact the number of overdraft fees charged to a customer. Pew is encouraging an end to this practice and for banks to post transactions in a fully disclosed, objective and neutral manner that does not maximize overdraft fees.


To interact with this tool, the user should compare the customer’s order to how the bank processed them by toggling between the two tabs.

The actual example of chronological vs Well Fargo's sequence of events is presented below. Raping clients or self defense against an evil environment that no longer allows money to grow on trees? You decide.

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HedgeAccordingly's picture

wonder what she has to say?  UGLY ES close - 

iDealMeat's picture

Am I reading that right?  Did she pay $ 4 bucks to take out $ 20 at some ATM??



nope-1004's picture

There are no lines when it comes to stealing.  When a thief enters your home, does he take only the TV and not the digital camera?

So it is with banks.  There is no demarcation today, it's ALL theft.  The fuckers are broke, insolvent, and corrupt.  There is no other way to survive at this point, and they know it.


Vagabond's picture

Every major bank does this at least in the US.  Here's a new incident that occurred to me last year:  I couldn't cover a check I was around a dollar short.  So when they went to "Authorize" the check I was overdrafted, and the check didn't clear.  The next day when they went to charge me for the check I was overdrafted again.  So I was overdrafted twice for a total of 74$ for a single check for being short around $1.5.  When I complained to the bank managers they could not even come close to explaining what happened.  I figured it out, explained to them the only way it could have happened, they adopted this as their explanation and then refused to refund one of the charges (one was legit, I just wanted the other back) saying they weren't allowed to give refunds.  When I called the regional manager she wouldn't even talk to me because I yelled at the original bank manager.  I'm sorry, but if you manage a bank, and your bank is assessing clients charges, you damn well better be able to explain those charges.  I'll be getting my revenge on that bank in my own way that costs them plenty more than $34.  I couldn't give a fuck less about the 40 bucks, it's the priciple, these scumbags are nickle and diming the poor.  I also contacted the attorney general (Martha Coaxley), she acknolodged my letter and did nothing further.  Not her problem.

Skid Marks's picture

Consider a huge company that has millions of regular customers it bills every month, like Citi Bank with 200 million credit card customers or Vodaphone with 300 millions cell phone customers or a forex company with gazillions of transactions every month. Now install an algo into the billing system that steals ten cents from everyone every month. That works out to tens of millions of dollars of pure, unadulterated profit and a degree of safety that nobody is really going to complain about such a small amount. And if somebody does waste teir time calling you and manages to withstand the voicemail system and foreign language speaking humanoid robots and lobotomized supervisors you simply refund their money to them and allow a computer to apologize for the error.


Pay with fiat and fuck the banks.

Hard1's picture

On top of everything, the debit machines connect to the bank for authorization, so it doesn't make sense that she can overdraft on debit transactions.

lunaticfringe's picture

I was lost before I tried to read. Thanks for pointing out the word "huge."

boiltherich's picture

If you have a complaint about how a bank has handled your funds you need to contact the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency not the attorney general in your state. 

Consumer disputes are settled using this form here:

You fill that out and you will get a response usually within 2 days assigning you a case number, they will contact the bank to get the facts from the bank's side of it.  I only complained once and won regarding a savings account my mother opened for me in 1963 that was still around in 1986, they did not want to give me the money, like all of 12 bucks. 

Even if the bank had a legal right to do what they did you should complain because the more people that bitch about shitty practices the more likely that practice will get regulated out of existence. 

Vagabond's picture

I appreciate that, thanks.

KK Tipton's picture

You can watch Wells Fargo do this in "realtime" with their online banking.
They will do it even before any overdraft. You can see the "setup" coming.

All items are posted in *their* own order. Just like the article says.

The larger problem faced by most Americans is how to *not* use banks.
The system wants to lock people in. We all know this.

First step would be protests to force all businesses to pay in cash weekly.
Bring back the old days. Just that simple first step would kill predator banks.


poor fella's picture

Every week or so I take out maybe $100-$200...  problem solved.

Might buy groceries, but could include include a trip to the hardware store. I honestly do not know how people spend so much %^cking money sometimes. When I DO spend, it's for something NICE. Somebody needs to teach this chic how to shop.

MY BIGGEST BEEF - If I pay cash and choose not to give visa or mastercard 1% - then I WANT A CASH DISCOUNT. The CC companies have been (and are) constantly fighting this.


Troll Magnet's picture

she's got like 40 bucks in the bank and is eating out all the time at IHOP, Subway, Farmer Boys...That is just pitiful.  Someone should let her know that she could've bought some junk silver instead of junk food.

SteveNYC's picture

You're seeing a good % of the country right here in this microcosm.

Rainman's picture

correct....the above bank statement could easily be my daughter's

Just Observing's picture

Hell, looking at my dumbass nephew's bank statement one month, he would pay a couple bucks to take out twenty, then pay ANOTHER couple bucks to check his balance 30 seconds later, and do this several times a month.

Carl Spackler's picture

Looks like ole "Stumpy" (John Stumpf) is a crook too.



infinity8's picture

who takes out $22? looked to me like they hit her for the $2 ATM fee twice.

IrritableBowels's picture

IIRC, WellsFargo charges their customers a $2.00 fee for using non-WF ATM's. Add the ATM's own charge...

Fucking Scam

FrankDrakman's picture

She got off lightly! If you use a "white label" ATM (i.e. one not affiliated with a bank), the charge for that withdrawal can be $5 or more, regardless of the amount you withdraw. You will then be dinged by your bank as well for "Other ATM" use AND (depending on the bank) an "ATM withdrawal" fee. I watched a friend of mine withdraw $20 from such a machine to buy a pack of CIGARETTES! I explained to him later that his $6 pack of smokes actually cost him $14.50 when he added in the ATM fees. He still didn't get it. (Nice guy, but three eggs short of a dozen).

TruthInSunshine's picture

"You don't want to borrow money from us at a 6% profit spread based on the rate we borrow from Bernank at? Huh, huh?"

You want to kill our traditional business model? Huh?

Fine, we weren't going to loan you any money, no matter how cheaply we can borrow it from The Bernank for, anyways, given our toxic sludge balance sheet having what can only be described as a galactically large black hole (you should see it) that devours our capital faster than we can replace it, and given that the economy sucks and we don't want any value depreciating assets you could possibly pledge to us, anyways, bitchez - if you were credit worthy, you wouldn't want to or need to be here groveling from the filthy likes of us."

Announcement to all branch managers from Bank President Mr. Dewey Cheatem Anhowe:

A Death Of A Thousand Paper Cuts For All Account Holders In Reprisal For The Bernank Breaking Markets!

greyghost's picture

has anyone read the karl denninger comments about the derivatives having preference in front of customers cash accounts in the mf global robbery? he goes on to say that since b of a moved their derivatives to their bank enity that all the claims for payout for the derivatives will  go before any fdic payout to b of a depositors should b of a fail!!!!!! anyone know or care to comment???????

g speed's picture

over heard in the parking lot----

Branch manager to insurance claims adjuster "I can't believe it -he just destroyed my Lexes with his old truck-backed over it three times it was horrible"

Claims adjuster to branch manager--"its to bad your not covered for pickup truck damage in mall parking lots-- oh buy the way-I have a debit account at your bank-small world huh?"

Everybodys All American's picture

I'll bite. BofA if it ever fails will get nationalized or sold and the CDS gets tossed on the ash heap of a bad bank. First off stock holders will get wiped out. Secondly, Credit Default Swaps will never be paid off ahead of any bank deposits. They would have a revolution like 1776 if that occurs. So therefore what I believe will happen is that the CDS will be rolled into a bad bank and the good bank along with depositors will be sold to JPM or some other bank. IF no other bank can step in then I believe the US will just simply take them over as they have the GSE's and put them into a runoff mode.

IMO the CDS is fraudulent insurance and no matter what occurs will unlikely pay off in any large scale. Greece default/not a default pretty much shows how defaults will be treated with respect to CDS.

Karl is talking with specifics in regard to MFGlobal and it bears watching how that plays out but I don't think the government is going to treat BofA deposits the same no matter the outcome there. MFGlobal is 30000 customers and BofA is quite a few more. That aside if MFGlobal pays JPM first because of derivative contracts I would move my money out of those banks just in case.

Imminent Crucible's picture

"Secondly, Credit Default Swaps will never be paid off ahead of any bank deposits."

Think again. The MF Global trustee is holding up a couple billion in client funds because JPM Chase said, "Whoa--no depositor payouts until we get covered on our derivative trades. That $2 billion might be our money. You can never tell."

FIVE WEEKS after MFG went under, and private clients whose funds were in segregated accounts STILL don't know if or when they'll get their money.

Pegasus Muse's picture
Special: Overdrawn! is a feature-length documentary about predatory banking fees, with Ralph Nader, Joel Bakan (The Corporation), a loan shark, and lots of consumers who are fed up with their banks for ripping them off with overdraft fees. 

Watch the complete documentary online: 

moneymutt's picture

Hello ZH, this has been standard bank practice for over 15 years, not new

Imminent Crucible's picture

Over 15 years? Nope. Court of No Cal notes that "before the 2001 change to posting from order of largest to smallest amount, common bank practice was to post from smallest to highest amount--NOT chronological."

That's from my attorney, who read the entirety of the Pew document.

redpill's picture

Doesn't get much shadier than that.  What a bunch of bullshit.  And preying on someone who obviously doesn't have a lot of money to begin with.

I've seen big banks sit on their own billpay checks for DAYS before clearing the cash into accounts.  And with billpay checks, whoever issues the check has the money removed from their account immediately.  Free 3 day loan for the bank.  Assholes.

TorchFire's picture

These pricks feed upon the financially weak with impunity knowing that the capacity to call them on their predatory actions is rather limited by the financial burdens placed on such account holders.  Kick 'em when they are down without mercy. I hope many of these abused working class people are present when these ruthless banksters are at the end of THEIR rope...dangling from a noose.


I agree with 99% of the criticism around the reality of our banking system

But where is personal responsibility?  People hue and cry about the banks but then enter into agreements and then bitch when they lose out.

I had a buddy of mine that complaining for a year about the company we both worked for. Ever day he complained about one aspect or another. Finally after another lunch of bitchin, I told him you have 2 choices.  Either accept the situation you are in and learn to operate in it, or find another fucking job.

Banks serve a purpose. THeir size and profit motive will always be in conflict the greater good.  If you don't want to operate according to the deposit agreement then  go cashless.

God damn, take ownership and stop crying how they are screwing you. They are scorpions, dont be the frog.




redpill's picture

Uh, they are only alive because OUR TAX DOLLARS bailed out their sorry asses.  How about they take ownership of that and not turn around and FUCK US in thanks.

nope-1004's picture

Exactly.  The counterparty, to which many of these "friends" are engaged with that you refer to, are insolvent and on taxpayer life support.

I agree about the bitching thing that gets annoying, but banks are cut throat and ruthless.  Anyone bitching about a bank is music to my ears.


TruthInSunshine's picture

And the winner is redpill, by knock out.


One, two, three, four, FIF.




You really that naive?

Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep trying to decide whats for dinner. 

Banks got bailed out becuase we have a corrupt political system that exists because people vote these assholes in every year. Banks lobby just like any other entity in this country. Do you think greed started in 2008 or 1929 or the 1880's?

Banks, corporations use their power to exercise government levers to provide the best environment for themselves. Thats human nature. What is the difference between them using the system to their advantage or a person on welfare, or AARP demanding no cuts to Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security and voting in someone in their congressional district who brings home pork or votes for the continuation of these programs

You think taking from others to provide for the common welfare (outside of what is precribed in the Constitution ) is really any nobler than a group of bankers controlling the monetary system by bribing govt officials to create the FED?






redpill's picture

I'm not sure where you see that I was advocating taking from people to "provide for the common welfare."  It's neither my position or the subject at hand.

The reason we have bailouts is because our government has overstepped its Constitutional bounds economically and has become so involved in every aspect of our economy that it's worth it to bribe them.  

If we followed the Constitution and got the federal government out of the areas which they have no business being, there wouldn't be a need for corporations to bribe them because they wouldn't have the power to be their cronies.

Power corrupts.  As long as we allow our government to violate the social contract, The Constitution, there will be corruption.  It's inevitable.  Take away the power and you eliminate the corruption.  

g speed's picture

So you think a SS recipt obeying the law and collecting a promise is the same as a banks breaking the law and getting cronies to funnel stolen money (printed money is stolen from the wealth of the nation)to them?

AustriAnnie's picture

"I agree with 99% of the criticism around the reality of our banking system

But where is personal responsibility?  People hue and cry about the banks but then enter into agreements and then bitch when they lose out."


Unfortunately, Americans are forced into the banking system because if they hold any cash they can have it confiscated and get investigated for "criminal activity".  

Hard1's picture

I don't get it, if you understand that we are forced into the banking system, then you must agree with 100% of the criticism!

KK Tipton's picture

No one is paid in all cash every week. It should be the law.

The control system is in full swing.

One way to handle this right now is to take any paycheck you get out in cash *in full*.
This would short circuit the scam and remove millions of dollars in profit from the banks within a single week.

Too bad Americans won't do this. It's "too hard".
But if everyone did it, the banks would come up with some crazy rule to stop it.

It's getting close to marching in the street time.

boiltherich's picture

Not to mention if you are retired or disabled you cannot now get a check in the mail, you must have direct deposit.  My mother got $968 per month to live on and had to have direct deposit, they have an account the government forced banks to set up just for indigent people required to have direct deposit, you get a card to use their ATM but you get charged if you ever need to go to the window for anything.  You are allowed to withdraw only three times per month, and there is a $300 per day limit, so you are limited to $900 per month over three days, after that you incur hefty fees and if your card is lost/stolen, demagnitized etc. or they make an error, or your deposit goes missing BINGO $15 fee to talk to the teller.  The government forces them to supply you with a way to access funds but the banks do not consider you to be a customer. 

Gohn Galt's picture

Hey EINSILVERGUY, personal responsibility???  These are clueless people who probably cannot imagine the crimes being done.  I hate what these banks do to our people, gain through deception is criminal fraud.  To impoverish someone is the worst form of violence you can do to anyone.  These victims need help and we in the know should help who we can.  Not everybody can do your trick and replenish funds at will.  It is a good trick and with banks working overtime robbing their clients they might never notice. 

steelhead23's picture

Right there with ya Torch.  I understand that in the "good ol' days" the family of the convicted would pay young boys to grab onto the legs of the hanged, to hasten death and avoid prolonged suffering.  Were I at one of these shindigs for a bankster scum, I'd pay young boys to piss on them while they're still kickin'.

srsly-wtf's picture

Ah yes, but banks say they are doing you a FAVOR by paying the largest debits first.  After all, you would'nt want your mortgage payment to bounce!  They should at least buy you dinner first!

SheepDog-One's picture

This is not shady at all for Wells Fargo who bolster their business with gun sales to drug cartels and laundering drug money.

Gohn Galt's picture

Oh yes and you can open corporate accounts without supplying papers.

Eagle1's picture


It's all about the float, got it? In this case the turds float in the bank's toilet. What is the saying? A rising tide floats all turds...