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Presenting How Wells Fargo Nickel And Dimes Clients To (Account) Death
Despite the recent humiliating defeat for the TBTF bank proposal to establish debit fees, the bailed out banks are still somehow supposed to make money now that their prop trading desks can no longer mimic hedge funds and trade ahead of flow or on "expert network" inside information (and old school revenue generation like advisory and underwriting is just too much work). So what do they do? Why nickel and dime clients to death. As the following interactive graphic from the Pew Trust demonstrates, in a recent example where it was caught red-handed, Wells Fargo literally tried to nickel and dime a client (who subsequently sued) to death, by shifting the order of debit transactions in a way that maximized the penalty fee, ignoring the actual chronological order. In other words, banks have a "malicious" algorithm designed to maximize client pain, while ignoring actual sequence of events. The net result an overdraft balance that is 4 times higher than what it would have been if proper temporal sequence had been followed. And that is why banks are desperate to pickpocket their clients: because once news of such practices is made public, everyone should pull their money. That they still don't is quite incomprehensible.
As Pew notes:
The Transaction Infraction graphic demonstrates how banks can post debits and withdrawals in non-chronological order – a practice that can greatly impact the number of overdraft fees charged to a customer. Pew is encouraging an end to this practice and for banks to post transactions in a fully disclosed, objective and neutral manner that does not maximize overdraft fees.
To interact with this tool, the user should compare the customer’s order to how the bank processed them by toggling between the two tabs.
The actual example of chronological vs Well Fargo's sequence of events is presented below. Raping clients or self defense against an evil environment that no longer allows money to grow on trees? You decide.
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wonder what she has to say? UGLY ES close - http://hedge.ly/gFWVSm
you need to get laid lol
Braaaahahahahahaahahaha
Am I reading that right? Did she pay $ 4 bucks to take out $ 20 at some ATM??
awesome.
There are no lines when it comes to stealing. When a thief enters your home, does he take only the TV and not the digital camera?
So it is with banks. There is no demarcation today, it's ALL theft. The fuckers are broke, insolvent, and corrupt. There is no other way to survive at this point, and they know it.
Every major bank does this at least in the US. Here's a new incident that occurred to me last year: I couldn't cover a check I was around a dollar short. So when they went to "Authorize" the check I was overdrafted, and the check didn't clear. The next day when they went to charge me for the check I was overdrafted again. So I was overdrafted twice for a total of 74$ for a single check for being short around $1.5. When I complained to the bank managers they could not even come close to explaining what happened. I figured it out, explained to them the only way it could have happened, they adopted this as their explanation and then refused to refund one of the charges (one was legit, I just wanted the other back) saying they weren't allowed to give refunds. When I called the regional manager she wouldn't even talk to me because I yelled at the original bank manager. I'm sorry, but if you manage a bank, and your bank is assessing clients charges, you damn well better be able to explain those charges. I'll be getting my revenge on that bank in my own way that costs them plenty more than $34. I couldn't give a fuck less about the 40 bucks, it's the priciple, these scumbags are nickle and diming the poor. I also contacted the attorney general (Martha Coaxley), she acknolodged my letter and did nothing further. Not her problem.
Consider a huge company that has millions of regular customers it bills every month, like Citi Bank with 200 million credit card customers or Vodaphone with 300 millions cell phone customers or a forex company with gazillions of transactions every month. Now install an algo into the billing system that steals ten cents from everyone every month. That works out to tens of millions of dollars of pure, unadulterated profit and a degree of safety that nobody is really going to complain about such a small amount. And if somebody does waste teir time calling you and manages to withstand the voicemail system and foreign language speaking humanoid robots and lobotomized supervisors you simply refund their money to them and allow a computer to apologize for the error.
Pay with fiat and fuck the banks.
On top of everything, the debit machines connect to the bank for authorization, so it doesn't make sense that she can overdraft on debit transactions.
you lost me at huge
I was lost before I tried to read. Thanks for pointing out the word "huge."
If you have a complaint about how a bank has handled your funds you need to contact the Office of the Comptroller of the Currency not the attorney general in your state.
Consumer disputes are settled using this form here: http://www.helpwithmybank.gov/complaints/index-file-a-bank-complaint.html
You fill that out and you will get a response usually within 2 days assigning you a case number, they will contact the bank to get the facts from the bank's side of it. I only complained once and won regarding a savings account my mother opened for me in 1963 that was still around in 1986, they did not want to give me the money, like all of 12 bucks.
Even if the bank had a legal right to do what they did you should complain because the more people that bitch about shitty practices the more likely that practice will get regulated out of existence.
I appreciate that, thanks.
You can watch Wells Fargo do this in "realtime" with their online banking.
They will do it even before any overdraft. You can see the "setup" coming.
All items are posted in *their* own order. Just like the article says.
The larger problem faced by most Americans is how to *not* use banks.
The system wants to lock people in. We all know this.
First step would be protests to force all businesses to pay in cash weekly.
Bring back the old days. Just that simple first step would kill predator banks.
Every week or so I take out maybe $100-$200... problem solved.
Might buy groceries, but could include include a trip to the hardware store. I honestly do not know how people spend so much %^cking money sometimes. When I DO spend, it's for something NICE. Somebody needs to teach this chic how to shop.
MY BIGGEST BEEF - If I pay cash and choose not to give visa or mastercard 1% - then I WANT A CASH DISCOUNT. The CC companies have been (and are) constantly fighting this.
she's got like 40 bucks in the bank and is eating out all the time at IHOP, Subway, Farmer Boys...That is just pitiful. Someone should let her know that she could've bought some junk silver instead of junk food.
You're seeing a good % of the country right here in this microcosm.
correct....the above bank statement could easily be my daughter's
Hell, looking at my dumbass nephew's bank statement one month, he would pay a couple bucks to take out twenty, then pay ANOTHER couple bucks to check his balance 30 seconds later, and do this several times a month.
Looks like ole "Stumpy" (John Stumpf) is a crook too.
who takes out $22? looked to me like they hit her for the $2 ATM fee twice.
IIRC, WellsFargo charges their customers a $2.00 fee for using non-WF ATM's. Add the ATM's own charge...
Fucking Scam
She got off lightly! If you use a "white label" ATM (i.e. one not affiliated with a bank), the charge for that withdrawal can be $5 or more, regardless of the amount you withdraw. You will then be dinged by your bank as well for "Other ATM" use AND (depending on the bank) an "ATM withdrawal" fee. I watched a friend of mine withdraw $20 from such a machine to buy a pack of CIGARETTES! I explained to him later that his $6 pack of smokes actually cost him $14.50 when he added in the ATM fees. He still didn't get it. (Nice guy, but three eggs short of a dozen).
"You don't want to borrow money from us at a 6% profit spread based on the rate we borrow from Bernank at? Huh, huh?"
You want to kill our traditional business model? Huh?
Fine, we weren't going to loan you any money, no matter how cheaply we can borrow it from The Bernank for, anyways, given our toxic sludge balance sheet having what can only be described as a galactically large black hole (you should see it) that devours our capital faster than we can replace it, and given that the economy sucks and we don't want any value depreciating assets you could possibly pledge to us, anyways, bitchez - if you were credit worthy, you wouldn't want to or need to be here groveling from the filthy likes of us."
Announcement to all branch managers from Bank President Mr. Dewey Cheatem Anhowe:
I personally loved it.
has anyone read the karl denninger comments about the derivatives having preference in front of customers cash accounts in the mf global robbery? he goes on to say that since b of a moved their derivatives to their bank enity that all the claims for payout for the derivatives will go before any fdic payout to b of a depositors should b of a fail!!!!!! anyone know or care to comment???????
over heard in the parking lot----
Branch manager to insurance claims adjuster "I can't believe it -he just destroyed my Lexes with his old truck-backed over it three times it was horrible"
Claims adjuster to branch manager--"its to bad your not covered for pickup truck damage in mall parking lots-- oh buy the way-I have a debit account at your bank-small world huh?"
I'll bite. BofA if it ever fails will get nationalized or sold and the CDS gets tossed on the ash heap of a bad bank. First off stock holders will get wiped out. Secondly, Credit Default Swaps will never be paid off ahead of any bank deposits. They would have a revolution like 1776 if that occurs. So therefore what I believe will happen is that the CDS will be rolled into a bad bank and the good bank along with depositors will be sold to JPM or some other bank. IF no other bank can step in then I believe the US will just simply take them over as they have the GSE's and put them into a runoff mode.
IMO the CDS is fraudulent insurance and no matter what occurs will unlikely pay off in any large scale. Greece default/not a default pretty much shows how defaults will be treated with respect to CDS.
Karl is talking with specifics in regard to MFGlobal and it bears watching how that plays out but I don't think the government is going to treat BofA deposits the same no matter the outcome there. MFGlobal is 30000 customers and BofA is quite a few more. That aside if MFGlobal pays JPM first because of derivative contracts I would move my money out of those banks just in case.
"Secondly, Credit Default Swaps will never be paid off ahead of any bank deposits."
Think again. The MF Global trustee is holding up a couple billion in client funds because JPM Chase said, "Whoa--no depositor payouts until we get covered on our derivative trades. That $2 billion might be our money. You can never tell."
FIVE WEEKS after MFG went under, and private clients whose funds were in segregated accounts STILL don't know if or when they'll get their money.
Watch the complete documentary online: http://www.linktv.org/programs/overdrawn
Hello ZH, this has been standard bank practice for over 15 years, not new
Over 15 years? Nope. Court of No Cal notes that "before the 2001 change to posting from order of largest to smallest amount, common bank practice was to post from smallest to highest amount--NOT chronological."
That's from my attorney, who read the entirety of the Pew document.
Doesn't get much shadier than that. What a bunch of bullshit. And preying on someone who obviously doesn't have a lot of money to begin with.
I've seen big banks sit on their own billpay checks for DAYS before clearing the cash into accounts. And with billpay checks, whoever issues the check has the money removed from their account immediately. Free 3 day loan for the bank. Assholes.
These pricks feed upon the financially weak with impunity knowing that the capacity to call them on their predatory actions is rather limited by the financial burdens placed on such account holders. Kick 'em when they are down without mercy. I hope many of these abused working class people are present when these ruthless banksters are at the end of THEIR rope...dangling from a noose.
I agree with 99% of the criticism around the reality of our banking system
But where is personal responsibility? People hue and cry about the banks but then enter into agreements and then bitch when they lose out.
I had a buddy of mine that complaining for a year about the company we both worked for. Ever day he complained about one aspect or another. Finally after another lunch of bitchin, I told him you have 2 choices. Either accept the situation you are in and learn to operate in it, or find another fucking job.
Banks serve a purpose. THeir size and profit motive will always be in conflict the greater good. If you don't want to operate according to the deposit agreement then go cashless.
God damn, take ownership and stop crying how they are screwing you. They are scorpions, dont be the frog.
Uh, they are only alive because OUR TAX DOLLARS bailed out their sorry asses. How about they take ownership of that and not turn around and FUCK US in thanks.
Exactly. The counterparty, to which many of these "friends" are engaged with that you refer to, are insolvent and on taxpayer life support.
I agree about the bitching thing that gets annoying, but banks are cut throat and ruthless. Anyone bitching about a bank is music to my ears.
And the winner is redpill, by knock out.
Fif!
One, two, three, four, FIF.
#JohnmCorzineWillExpresslyOrImplicitlyPleadTheFIF
You really that naive?
Democracy is 2 wolves and a sheep trying to decide whats for dinner.
Banks got bailed out becuase we have a corrupt political system that exists because people vote these assholes in every year. Banks lobby just like any other entity in this country. Do you think greed started in 2008 or 1929 or the 1880's?
Banks, corporations use their power to exercise government levers to provide the best environment for themselves. Thats human nature. What is the difference between them using the system to their advantage or a person on welfare, or AARP demanding no cuts to Medicare, Medicaid or Social Security and voting in someone in their congressional district who brings home pork or votes for the continuation of these programs
You think taking from others to provide for the common welfare (outside of what is precribed in the Constitution ) is really any nobler than a group of bankers controlling the monetary system by bribing govt officials to create the FED?
I'm not sure where you see that I was advocating taking from people to "provide for the common welfare." It's neither my position or the subject at hand.
The reason we have bailouts is because our government has overstepped its Constitutional bounds economically and has become so involved in every aspect of our economy that it's worth it to bribe them.
If we followed the Constitution and got the federal government out of the areas which they have no business being, there wouldn't be a need for corporations to bribe them because they wouldn't have the power to be their cronies.
Power corrupts. As long as we allow our government to violate the social contract, The Constitution, there will be corruption. It's inevitable. Take away the power and you eliminate the corruption.
So you think a SS recipt obeying the law and collecting a promise is the same as a banks breaking the law and getting cronies to funnel stolen money (printed money is stolen from the wealth of the nation)to them?
"I agree with 99% of the criticism around the reality of our banking system
But where is personal responsibility? People hue and cry about the banks but then enter into agreements and then bitch when they lose out."
Unfortunately, Americans are forced into the banking system because if they hold any cash they can have it confiscated and get investigated for "criminal activity".
I don't get it, if you understand that we are forced into the banking system, then you must agree with 100% of the criticism!
No one is paid in all cash every week. It should be the law.
The control system is in full swing.
One way to handle this right now is to take any paycheck you get out in cash *in full*.
This would short circuit the scam and remove millions of dollars in profit from the banks within a single week.
Too bad Americans won't do this. It's "too hard".
But if everyone did it, the banks would come up with some crazy rule to stop it.
It's getting close to marching in the street time.
Not to mention if you are retired or disabled you cannot now get a check in the mail, you must have direct deposit. My mother got $968 per month to live on and had to have direct deposit, they have an account the government forced banks to set up just for indigent people required to have direct deposit, you get a card to use their ATM but you get charged if you ever need to go to the window for anything. You are allowed to withdraw only three times per month, and there is a $300 per day limit, so you are limited to $900 per month over three days, after that you incur hefty fees and if your card is lost/stolen, demagnitized etc. or they make an error, or your deposit goes missing BINGO $15 fee to talk to the teller. The government forces them to supply you with a way to access funds but the banks do not consider you to be a customer.
Hey EINSILVERGUY, personal responsibility??? These are clueless people who probably cannot imagine the crimes being done. I hate what these banks do to our people, gain through deception is criminal fraud. To impoverish someone is the worst form of violence you can do to anyone. These victims need help and we in the know should help who we can. Not everybody can do your trick and replenish funds at will. It is a good trick and with banks working overtime robbing their clients they might never notice.
Right there with ya Torch. I understand that in the "good ol' days" the family of the convicted would pay young boys to grab onto the legs of the hanged, to hasten death and avoid prolonged suffering. Were I at one of these shindigs for a bankster scum, I'd pay young boys to piss on them while they're still kickin'.
Ah yes, but banks say they are doing you a FAVOR by paying the largest debits first. After all, you would'nt want your mortgage payment to bounce! They should at least buy you dinner first!
This is not shady at all for Wells Fargo who bolster their business with gun sales to drug cartels and laundering drug money.
Oh yes and you can open corporate accounts without supplying papers.
Redpill
It's all about the float, got it? In this case the turds float in the bank's toilet. What is the saying? A rising tide floats all turds...
Was victim to this MANY times as a WF customer when I was going through an unemployed rough spot. I noticed the largest bills always went first, then I would rack up 3 or 4 overdrafts, when they could've just as easily charged me one. And when you're broke, you're fucking broke. I didn't have enough money to float a payment a couple of days, so where the hell was I supposed to come up with OD fees of $32 x 4?? The kicker was when I finally got back on my feet, and closed my account this January, those fucking catfish charged me some random 36$ administrative fee for closing down my accounts. I gladly paid it. Good riddance.
As one who has (unfortunately) had plenty of experience with WFB, I can say categorically that it is a criminal enterprise. Fortunaltely for us all, most of the people running this criminal operation are terminally stupid. If they were as smart and as well connected as GS, the system would have blown up already.
All the employees and officers of WFB above the rank of teller belong in jail.
B of A has been doing the same thing for many years.
In computer science, this is what is commonly known as a "greedy algorithm". It's called greedy for a reason. (Only in this case, they look at the whole data set so they make sure to pick the most globally optimal result for themselves.) :-)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Greedy_algorithm
It was probably a $10/hour employee that originally coded it with a couple of nested loops, lawyers got a few hundred-thousand to take a look, someone without a name said, "do it", and Cha-CHING - the banks got their own money printer.
BofA did this to me once DECADES ago.. I went to Wells Fargo just to make a point, had no doubts they would do the same, so I chalk it up with it's each person's responsibility to never let it happen.
Really, it's not like the banks just started doing this... people are sleepy bastards.
Unfortunately, this is even more familiar at smaller banks whose systems are not "sophisticated" enough to acknowledge timstamps on transactions, or who all use the same vended accounting package put out by one of the big banksters.
We negotiate clearance days on loans where there is a sweeping lockbox, which is more or less the same thing. Unfortuantely, retail customers have no such leverage. I'm not sure about Private Bank clients, they may be able to negotiate, I'm not sure. If you are a private bank client at your bank, you should inquire on this.
But I have this same complaint on my personal account. Three payment days on billpay is ridiculous. I leave only the bare minimum in my account, so I sweat tight balances at times. And this always irks me when the money is gone from my account, but not credited for payment for three days.
I am concerned that when the bank holidays come, those clearance days may lead to monetary diversion... aka the funds get Corzine'd.
.
the sheep will never figure it out. That would require effort beyond manipulating a remote control. Good luck with that.
Sadly you speak the truth. Fucking hell. I see sheep people.
Maybe we can shake some people up with a "Banks are Screwing You" Ap for droid, iphone, and such. It was just need to be relabeled Free Tits and Sports Ap.
She should launder more drug money with them ,WFB are good at that if you launder 1 million they waver the fees.
Those cock-suckers did this to me, I called customer support and called them on it, and they took out the charge.
-breath-
I hate Wells Fargo.
Enough to leave those cock-suckers I hope.
Who is a major shareholder in Wells? Democrat Warner Buffert.
The point is - am I their customer or their victim? They obviously don't treat me like a customer.
Good boy Freddie. It's always fun to see Rick Perry's sockpuppet show up.
I gladly finished with that fine organization in 2008.
God I wish I could. Mortgage payment is paid automatically with those asshats and comes out of a WFB account for that purpose only. It was set up that way a long time ago on the mortgage papers and I regret it. Seemed like a good idea at the time to save .50 percent. Ugh. Two transactions a month. Cash in for the payment and the payment is deducted...but I still have to deal with them. Everything else is with local credit union.
refi
Geez for 50bps, I'd jump through the hoops to set up an account solely there to fund my mortgage payments. You don't have to like Wells Fargo to take advantage of them giving money away. 50bps is a pretty big discount.
I'm sure they rape their customers only in self-defense.
How's a bank supposed to make money? Loans?
In the meantime, even poorer-than-preBernank-people are going to pawn shops, title shops and The Bank of Stugotz, PLLC for all their sundry needs.
Old news is old. However, I've also noticed Wells Fargo causes debit charges to disappear, then suddenly reappear days later. I called them and they said, "If we don't receive a signature within 48 hours, we are required to put the money back in you account." Required by who? Your CEO? In a vain attempt to get less cautious people to overdraft? All I know is they never did it before, then they got busted for this re-ordering scam, now they're doing a disappearing/reappearing debit card purchase scam. You know people will think they have money in their account, go spend it, then that disappearing charge they forgot about suddenly comes back through and Bam. I decided to switch to America First Credit Union to see if they're any better.
Sadly there are many in society that balance their checkbook with an ATM deposit inquiry. These people are not just college kids either. We are talking married with wife and kids type people.
I think of the ignorant bliss I lived in up until 2007 and just shake with anger. Took many years to get me out of the consumer coma, so my fear that many more years will be required for others to travel the same path is not encouraging.
I do, because I write one check per month for rent and have one automatic debit for the car payment because it never changes. If I had to write down and balance every time I got a cuppa at Starbucks, or spent money it would just be overwhelming, so I keep a running balance in my head and when I start to get low check frequently online. I mean I have a five double-sided page statement as it is with only one check and two deposits. Sadly it is so huge I cannot really even keep track of whether or not a merchant screwed me or funds were taken out without my permission.
I noticed BofA doing this years ago. What freaked me out was when I made debit card purchases, then went to the ATM later in the day and my balance did not reflect the purchases! Had one really needed cash and was not paying attention, he could withdraw cash at the ATM and BAM!, at the end of the day all the purchases go through with multiple fees.
I've had purchases with a debit card on a Friday not be deducted from my account until Sunday evening. I guess they were waiting for the weekend spending spree to end, and had I used the ATM to check your balance on Sunday, it might have been off by hundreds of dollars.
Left the big banks long ago. Credit unions and local solvent banks, only way to go. Giant Squids can all rot in hell.
Banks are like every business, they are set up to serve specific needs. You wouldn't go to McDonalds and expect an excellent steak. Neither should the average person do business with the 5 to 7 largest banks. They are organized to do business with high net worth individuals and companies. But they sure as hell intend to make a profit from everyone that's a customer. So if you do your banking with a couple of hundred in your checking account expect to get screwed with a thousand small fees. Checking accounts cost a bank several hundred a year to maintain. For most, credit unions and small local banks are the way to go.
But when the students become business owners and doctors and lawyers, they won't forget how the big banks treated them when they weren't high net worth customers. Being evil and treating people poorly, even the poorest among us, will eventually backfire.
Good point. When I was an unemployed WF customer, I rarely had 2 nickels in the account to rub together, when I was getting pounded by multiple, spirit-breaking overdraft fees. Then, when I landed a very well paying job last year and got back on my feet, I closed my acct with WF (this past January). Now I maintain a healthy balance at my new, local bank. Had WF not acted like a fucking tapeworm in my account when I was broke, or at least showed some humanity, I would've stayed with them. But now my small local bank is enjoying the benefits of my deposits.
And I have been damn near begging my family to close their WF accts and go to credit unions. In fact, that is all I asked of my parents this Christmas.
Democrat and friend of the muslim - Warner Buffert is a big Wells Fargo and Bank of America (illegal alien bank) shareholder. Someone should shove some Japanese Fukishima corn cobs up his rectal area.
How do you have time to post when you're being Gov. Goodhair, Mr. Perry? Oh, that's right...Republics and good government are an oxymoron.
I agree with you. I wouldn't run a business this way, but they do. And they are not going to change. Corporations get larger and perform worse until they fall over and fail from there own incompetence. How many of the largest companies from 100 years ago are even still around? As a consumer we all need to understand who we do business with and why it's in our own best interests. Corporations are not your friends. Work with them when it's in YOUR best interest. No use bitching because the snake bit you, you knew it was a snake. By the way I believe regulations have been passed prohibiting the practice described in the article.
I agree that those largest banks aren't really designed or intended as the everyman bank, but they go to quite a bit of effort to present themselves as such. This is like if a restaurant advertises itself as cheap and family-friendly, and they let you put the bill on your tab. They'll send you the bill at the end of the month. And when you get the bill, you find they charged you extra for having your steak well-done. Or for those water refills. Or they factored in a 30% tip to each total (even though you left a cash tip every time). You already went six times that month, because their prices were so great, and they were so convenient and friendly. But now it's been done, and they won't listen when you say it's unreasonable. Maybe you'll never go again, but maybe they're the only restaurant in town. Maybe all the other restaurants do it too. And maybe the ex-CEO of that restaurant is on the city councel, and blocks any zoning that allows for a competing system of food distribution to take hold. Maybe there isn't even a grocery store, and it's either you grow your own food, or go to their establishment. People do choose to not pay attention, and they pay for it, but the organizations that take advantage of that lack of attention are no less evil for it.
FMR: Because it is legal makes it OK? Caveat Emptor? laissez-faire? In my opinion and in the law there is a concept that fair and transparent business practices must be adhered to, the employment of undisclosed or unauthorized trickery to gain at others expense is fraud. There is a reason the banks hide their actions in terms of broad generalizations and page after page of legalese in annoying 2 point fonts that are printed in gray ink only slightly darker than the background paper, because if they told you the truth about how they would handle your money and treat YOU you would never consent to do business with them.
eth·ics1. ( used with a singular or plural verb ) a system of moral principles: the ethics of a culture. 2.
the rules of conduct recognized in respect to a particular class of human actions or a particular group, culture, etc.: medical ethics; Christian ethics. 3.
moral principles, as of an individual: His ethics forbade betrayal of a confidence. 4.
( usually used with a singular verb ) that branch of philosophy dealing with values relating to human conduct, with respect to the rightness and wrongness of certain actions and to the goodness and badness of the motives and ends of such actions.
Just another banker "serving" the customer the only way they know how. Insert your own sexual metaphor.
Banks have been doing that for a while.
If I only had $300 to my name I sure as hell wouldn't eat out that much!
Yeah I saw that too.
It's amazing what cash budgeting can do. Put $ in an evenlope and label it. "Food" and you can only use what's in that envelope. Amazing how much more frugal you are when you "feel" the money leaving your pocket instead of swiping a piece of plastic.
You radical you.
Edit: Who the hell junked you? Most sensible, plain comment on the board. Sheesh.
I know.
I'm about to submit my own FOIA to Tyler and get him to let me know who up/down votes.
This barbaric lack of transparency is disgusting.
It's them. You know, those people.
I know who junked him.
Robo and dabolina, most likely.
Maybe that is all she ate for the whole month.
My girlfriend has a Wells Fargo account, keeps about 5 figure balance.
She used to pay her credit card off every month by check, but if she's even one day late beyond the due date, she gets charged interest for the entire month.
This happened 3 times last year, but she called customer service and complained, and they waived the interest charges all three times.
She didn't threaten or complain, they simply rolled over and caved in.
Today, she has the account automatically debited to pay the card off each month.
In a nutshell, after banking at Wells Fargo for over 15 years and keeping a 4 to 5 figure balance in the account, she has not paid one red cent in fees or service charges.
Of course, it helps that the account is never overdrawn and she keeps good balances in the account at all times.
How is Palmela Handerson these days?
RoboiTard's fat & hairy palm of a girlfriend has 5 skinnier friends.
5 figures with a plus or minus sign in front of it, Robo?
Each comment better than the last!
RobotLemming: surrendering any claims to honesty, integrity or intelligence one red arrow at a time.
Hahahaha, OMG you guys are relentless...too funny.
How does one get hair on their palm?
Friction. Lots of friction.
But it's only those really kinky hairs that one finds in the palm in this context.
Are you kidding Grinder? Trying to get these straight boys to describe why they have to shave their palms?
http://grindr.com/
Tyler, like 90% sure this is spam...
hhehe good one
Don't laugh...here's a whole article with pictures:
http://www.momlogic.com/2008/10/men_who_date_life_size_dolls.php
Oh man dont doubt! It is so easy in the internet age. Even robo can get more action than he can handle.
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The two top cougar web sites in your area.
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Dont be cheap. Pay for the highest membership level available on all of them.
If I can have a small harem anybody can!
Robo I believe you agree with this. if you made me invest in a major bank stock now it would be WFC. Their stock has been resilient! Still above 2010 lows! Can't think of any other major that had held up so well.
Wells Fargo should be doing fairly well, the drug cartel gun sales and money laundering have been big lately.
Stop talking to yourself Robo
Was it the credit card co. or Wells Fargo that waived the interest?
I have operated in a similar manner for some 20 years now. No fees and no problems. But, thankfully I am not one of the people that is currently at the margin. These practices rape the weakest. Is truly disgusting. They ought to at least honor the time signature of the purchases.
Is this guy the alter ego of MillionDollarBonus? How can you defend this crap.
Bank of America tried that with me but backed down when I called them on it. And before everybody savages me for dealing with them, be advised that I only have a rewards credit card with them, I use it for all my monthly purchases and pay off the full balance each month before any interest/fees are incurred, and when the rewards total $500 I have them send me a check. Never paid them a nickel of interest or fees, and get an average float from them of about $1,500 a month. I'm one of their worst customers.
Was it five figures or five axe handles across?
sorry Robo but I call BS-- You have too many situations that match up with what ever is going on in the comments-- to pat--
You've got girlfriend, eh? You've given me hope.
Any recommendations for a bank in NYC?
http://www.findacreditunion.com/
Saturate ground through 5th floor with kerosene, then apply molotov cocktails liberally from adjacent street corners. Let stand for 45 minutes. Enjoy.
Oh...you were looking for business advice. My bad.
Use the one where Occupy Wall Street keeps its money.
Occupy San Francisco used Wells Fargo http://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2011/11/09/occupy-oakland-protesters-deposit-funds-at-wells-fargo-after-bank-attacks/
Visit here:
http://moveyourmoneyproject.org/find-bankcredit-union
http://www.moveyourmoneyproject.org
I hear the Chinese bank branches are doing a fine business in the Rotten Apple.
People actually think they're safer, because thieving Chinese bankers get executed.
wells fargo also charges 5-10 dollars to cash a check drawn on one of their customer's accounts.....the pretty little indian teller with a diamond in her nose told me it was due to solvency issues a few weeks ago....
yes people, pull your money from the squids.....the banksters are crooked criminal worshippers of mammon....kill the squids...the incompetent managers have burned through investor capital, taxpayer funded bailouts, and now their customers.....these companies hire the lowest iq people they can find and then aggressively promote them....low iq and criminality correlate well...
and fuck you about declaiming that fees are not criminal - you don't get the point
To give you an idea of where we are on the road to Hell, they ALL do that now. I found out about this a few months ago, and was furious. Outraged! Made Mrs. Vato listen to long speeches about right and wrong, and all that. Why, this was ILLEGAL! It was FRAUD!! Long story short, I found out it's quite legal: in fact, just to make sure everyone sees how things roll around here, the banks had their puppets over at the office of the comptroller put it on *their* website. "Banks can do this. Cuz we say so."
It WAS on the front page in bold letters, and it's been moved - which is interesting - but it's still there. occ.treas.gov, go to "OCC for you/Bank customers', then to 'bank accounts' then to 'bank fees'. Y'all have a good day, fellow serfs.
Apparently money printing is a transferrable skill.
I thought we were able to cancel our overdraft "priviledge" now?
And by "we", I mean all the idiots still banking with these kleptomaniacs.
How can you avoid fees without some overdraft protection?
The bank either pays the item or returns it, both fees are identical. Return Item Fee = Overdraft Fee.
If you write 5 checks they will processed the most expensive one first, to ensure that the most checks bounce or overdraw.
You can't fight the system. Just watch your money. Use a credit card as often as possible. The bank thrives on people that are lazy and uneducated.
I have NO overdraft "protection", nor do I need it --- as I can do simple arithmetic and balance a checkbook.
Anyone who skims along with a minimal checking account balance, writing checks without even knowing their actuarial balance (based on checks written, not just on checks cashed), is simply asking for trouble, and deserves whatever idiotically usurious fees to which their banks subject them. Of course, the casual and frequent use of debit cards throws a monkey-wrench into this system, as it is much more cumbersome and difficult to account for and keep track of both checks AND debits out of the same account --- which is probably why banks love to push the use of debit cards on consumers, and why I categorically refuse to use a debit card, using cash instead.
Remember, bankers HATE you using cash, as they cannot thereby trap you with all these fees and shenanigans --- and isn't that reason enough to do so? There is always, ALWAYS a reason, in their favor, for all the "services" that they so heavily advertise and continually try to entice you to use.
In other words, just keep your checkbook balanced, and assume that the value of every check, at the moment of writing, is instantly removed from one's balance, and you will never have a problem. But I guess that is asking too much of dumb-downed, mathematically-challenged, irresponsible contemporaray Americans.
Anyone who skims along with a minimal checking account balance, writing checks without even knowing their actuarial balance (based on checks written, not just on checks cashed), is simply asking for trouble,
$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
You just described the majority of Americans Akak, even a large chunk of the middle class is living one paycheck away from ruin now.
I have a small 401 k w/WF, (50)K) the choices for investment are limited and many favor the bank. Less than 10 months till 591/2 years old then that money is moving away baby.
This has been known for a while. They used to do this with poker deposits/withdrawals as well. Take their sweet old time (sometimes aided by poker site fail by the payment processors ala Full Tilt Poker) on deposits, or on big withdrawals, just take a little off the top with each transaction as poker players a) wouldn't complain because b) all we cared about was getting 95% of the withdrawal in our hands (not the easiest thing, especially after UEIGA and the Big B&M-driven Govt crackdown).
This was proven moreso after the NY DOJ seized 30 million in Wells Fargo player accounts that were tied to poker sites in 2008-09 (which sites like PokerStars and FTP had to eat). This was the "beginning of the end" for easy money moving between players->sites->banks/payment processors. Wells Fargo BY FAR was the biggest bank in moving gamblers' money online from 2004-2009.
That's why I think Wells Fargo would do VERY well passing a stress test - with all that cash they got from the drug trade and internet gaming transactions, they'd better!
This is hardly new. I worked for Chase and they did this 8 years ago.
You'd have 15 transactions coming through, one for $200, and 14 for $5 or less. Account balance was $205. And the $200 would hit first, followed by 14 overdrafts.
At $25 per overdraft X 14 = $350 in overdraft fees on less than $70 worth of transactions.
I saw accounts with $1000s in overdraft fees. Usually poor folks that sucked at money management. What happened was the Debit card didn't see the $200 transaction and let them spend away. Then it all hit at the same time (well not in the temporal order).
BoA does the same.
They won't have the opportunity to do me again.
Bank of Amerika does this all the time to me, bastards........
(Reuters) - President Barack Obama said on Tuesday he would call for legislation to strengthen penalties against Wall Street companies that break anti-fraud rules.
Marxist! It's Congress, big government and the regulators who are to blame when a Wall Streeter commits fraud......anyone knows that
You are right on most counts! Obama is a Marxist. Congress, big government and the regulators are to blame for many of the issues we face. However, when a Wall Streeter commits fraud, only he is to blame. I fixed it for you
Well, not under our current system. There are no Wall Streeters behind bars. All the focus in 09-10 was on how "the regulators were asleep at the switch", resulting in the Dodd-Frank bill. No sooner was the ink dry than Senator Shelby got busy trying to repeal Dodd-Frank. Why? Too much regulation, of course. It will almost certainly be repealed soon.
They got you coming and going. Because the control all branches of government like puppets on a string. If you don't report an extra $5 that slips out of the ATM lord help you. You might be held without charge or trial legally.
I agree. But there tons of laws on the books to arrest me and you --- as well as anybody on Wall Street that commits fraud. The fact that we could be dragged to a cell while those that commit fruad skip freely in the daylight speaks volumes about our politicians and the system in general. "All pigs are created equal, but some are more equal than others"....
I'm glad my bank doesn't suck like that. Jesus what a scam! Definitely not a good sign if Wells Fargo is so hard up for cash that it must resort to these kinds of tactics. Makes you wonder how capitalized they really are. Same goes for the other banks that are doing this.
I'm glad my bank doesn't suck like that. [Mohammed] what a scam! Definitely not a good sign if Wells Fargo is so hard up for cash that it must resort to these kinds of tactics. Makes you wonder how capitalized they really are. Same goes for the other banks that are doing this.
(Fixed it for you. Equal cursing opportunity.)
So that's how you get to be a member of the 1%.
#occupy wells fargo
This is why I left Wells Fargo 10 years ago. They claimed that they were doing me a favor by clearing the largest debit first and then clearing the 7 smaller debits. This resulted in 8 overdraft fees rather than one. The most infuriating part of the whole ordeal was the fact that I had deposited my paycheck the week before those transactions cleared, but they did not make the funds available for 5 business days. This was my normal bi-weekly paycheck. Never again.
I was a WF customer. The have been doing this for nearly a decade if not more. This doesn't show the time scales for these reorderings, but I think they would be up to 3-4 days. Furthermore, I strongly suspect they collude with other banks to speed up and slow down the processing times for items.
I have since left WF and the US and now live in a country where the charge for using another bank's ATM is...ZERO.
Think about this. Some chiphead in the dungeon of W.F. had to concoct some program to do this stuff. Likely flags marginal accounts and applies some black-box linear optimization to rob people. Wonder if they have different levels to the thing - like the intensity settings on pop-up blockers. Dood probably brings in a large coin for extorting the downtrodden.
It's really not that complicated. Here it is in C#:
foreach (Transaction transaction in account.GetPendingTransactions().OrderByDescending(arg => arg.Amount))
{
account.Process(transaction);
}
Crony uncle Warren needs the extra fees so he can pay more taxes.
This has been a problem with the banks for decades, even longer, when the banks would hold funds for long periods when they felt they could get away with it.
I called it, 'fishing for fees'. The bank would give you a day when the funds (from out of town) were to be available then hit you with a bunch of overdraft fees as the funds would magically NOT be available.
Until Home Depot was invented, the 'held checking deposit' was a good point of departure for ferocious arguments.
Now the banks have fees for everything, if you don't have an active account but one with a few dollars in it, the banks will simply suck out the cash and close the account. This is a problem when you have to travel and your bank doesn't have branches in the new town you are visiting. It can be more convenient to have a Paypal account/PIN card for items such as food and whatnot.
Sorry, anyone doing business with a TBTF bank deserves the shitty customer service they get.
Start with our government, we put thieves in charge of our country. This then creates a culture of thievery. And when Ben Bernanke finally devalues our currency to solve our debt problem, he will be the ultimate thief as he will have stolen at least 40% of our wealth.