This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Presenting How Wells Fargo Nickel And Dimes Clients To (Account) Death
Despite the recent humiliating defeat for the TBTF bank proposal to establish debit fees, the bailed out banks are still somehow supposed to make money now that their prop trading desks can no longer mimic hedge funds and trade ahead of flow or on "expert network" inside information (and old school revenue generation like advisory and underwriting is just too much work). So what do they do? Why nickel and dime clients to death. As the following interactive graphic from the Pew Trust demonstrates, in a recent example where it was caught red-handed, Wells Fargo literally tried to nickel and dime a client (who subsequently sued) to death, by shifting the order of debit transactions in a way that maximized the penalty fee, ignoring the actual chronological order. In other words, banks have a "malicious" algorithm designed to maximize client pain, while ignoring actual sequence of events. The net result an overdraft balance that is 4 times higher than what it would have been if proper temporal sequence had been followed. And that is why banks are desperate to pickpocket their clients: because once news of such practices is made public, everyone should pull their money. That they still don't is quite incomprehensible.
As Pew notes:
The Transaction Infraction graphic demonstrates how banks can post debits and withdrawals in non-chronological order – a practice that can greatly impact the number of overdraft fees charged to a customer. Pew is encouraging an end to this practice and for banks to post transactions in a fully disclosed, objective and neutral manner that does not maximize overdraft fees.
To interact with this tool, the user should compare the customer’s order to how the bank processed them by toggling between the two tabs.
The actual example of chronological vs Well Fargo's sequence of events is presented below. Raping clients or self defense against an evil environment that no longer allows money to grow on trees? You decide.
»
- 36481 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
Here's how they will decide the Euro Bailout by the Fed (aka you, the taxpayer):
A handful of key US Senators [ all members of the Senate Banking Committee] will meet with International Monetary Fund chief Christine Lagarde on Wednesday to discuss the way out of Europe's debt crisis, one of the lawmakers said Tuesday.
"We need to thread the needle between pressure on Greece and others to dramatically cut spending so that they're not credit unworthy, and a backstop that could prevent any panic from people making irrational decisions," said Kirk.
Lagarde on Monday welcomed France and Germany's push for tough fiscal standards in the eurozone, but said more steps were needed to tackle the region's crisis.
"It's not in itself sufficient and a lot more will be needed for the overall situation to be properly addressed and for confidence to return, to not only markets, but to investors, to consumers, to those (companies) that have to set out their strategies for the next two, three or four years," she said.
http://news.yahoo.com/us-senators-meet-imf-chief-euro-crisis-210206175.h...
If the Fed Reserve is going to bailout the EU through the IMF it is truly game over for free markets. Capitalism is meant to have winners and losers and without this moral hazard goes to infinity. I would be extremely disapointed with our representatives in government because this goes to the core of our country's future. I've long since thought Geithner and Bernanke to be financial nitwits and this would solidify my thinking and then some.
The Fed is going to do whatever it pleases and is directed by its real owner to do. Lip service is the only thing Congress and the American people will get from them. They are a private agency. They do not serve at the pleasure of the citizens or taxpayers of the US. Anything they say that implies they might is just BS, a lie. They will give as many US dollars to European banks or counties as they see fit. They don't need Congress's approval.
Capitalism is only an illusion.
Don't pay overdraft fees people. Not one thin dime. If your account is overdrawn just quit using that particular bank. Chances are very good that the bank will close the account and forget about it. As for bum checks go get those back from whomever is holding them before the law gets them.
Bad advice.
All banks I have been with except for one Credit Union, have done this to one degree or another.
They will take out bills first and then deposit your direct deposit for example. Anything left over is a hit for insufficient funds.
Other times they will slowly take out your drafts. Make sure your Utiltiy bills and anything else due comes due between the 10th and 16th of every month.
Then maintain at least 3 months amount in that one account where all your bills are paid. Have your money direct deposited in a second credit union and wire as necessary once a month.
That way both credit unions have no choice but to clear your balance all around after the 16th going into the end of month.
Most of the sheep are unaware and usually don't pay attention while they charge away the money in real time. And it can cost them like... 30 to 50 dollars for each and every over draft instance.
Insufficient funds anyone? Those do and will go onto your credit.
Oh...
STOP WRITING PAPER CHECKS. THose can take weeks or a month to clear. Like those damn Tithes checks to church. Apparently the church holds them 6 weeks then makes a deposit setting us up for a overdraft.
And you wonder we dont tithe anymore.
Let's discuss this.
Religion is worse than banks. At least banks show you money on a screen and give your money to others.
ReligioNs buil gaudy churches, rape kids, and brainwash uneducated third world citizens. Assholes.
Religion is the worlds most evil institution.
'Guns don't kill people...people kill people."
Religions don't do any of the things you say...people do. Perversion of religious tenets is a frequent contributor, but there is some distance between the perverted tenets and the actual ones.
Then banks don't charge over draft fees.
You know what I mean. It is easier to say religion than Joseph Ratzinger and Thomas Monson.
They swindle hard earned money from simple minded idiots with the promise of paradise after you die! I can think of no greater scumbag move.
You know what I mean.
Actually, I don't. Nothing you describe resembles religion in my Book. But you've got apostasy down to a T.
The interesting thing about apostates is that they aren't concerned about being called apostates.
Where have I erred in my description of religion? E.g. Vatican City is just magically glorious? No innocent peoples finances were pillaged to build that city? and what have we gained by having so much money flow into religious organizations? And people say the banking industry is a leech on the economy.
Vatican City is the epicenter of the apostasy. Thanks for making my point.
"Religion is regarded by the common people as true, by the wise as false, and by the rulers as useful." -Lucius Annaeus Seneca (4?BCE - 61CE)
Sunday brainwashing for the masses. Come out feeling fresh and clean.
If you're coming out feeling fresh and clean, then your pastor is only preaching from the "easy" passages.
"For all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God." Rm 3:23
+1
You will hear of wars and rumors of wars, but see to it that you are not alarmed. Such things must happen, but the end is still to come. Nation will rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom. There will be famines and earthquakes in various places. All these are the beginning of birth pains. Then you will be handed over to be persecuted and put to death, and you will be hated by all nations because of me. At that time many will turn away from the faith and will betray and hate each other, and many false prophets will appear and deceive many people. Because of the increase of wickedness, the love of most will grow cold... (Matt 24: 6-12)
I wonder if we don't annotate these things how many people would be surprised that this was written nineteen centuries ago.
News item: This was not written 19 centuries ago. The Council of Nicea was in the 4th Century. That where all this bullshit was agreed upon. Divine intervention? Not unless you recognize Constantine as the Divine One.
http://www.columbia.edu/cu/augustine/arch/sbrandt/nicea.htm
You're easily decieved.
What a crock of shit!! There are no sins that are greater than those committed for the "glory of God"
Your pastor is a con man, a goddamn fucking liar.
Apparently the church holds them 6 weeks then makes a deposit setting us up for a overdraft.
Unless you don't keep tabs on expenditures, why would 6 weeks of float hurt you?
I check account online several times a day, every day.
Waiting weeks for a fucking check to clear is way too damn long.
I have not had a paper check in my checkbook for almost two years now. It's a bank card on credit with signature only. never Debit.
If I wanted to pay someone in the USA with funds, A postal Domestic money order takes care of that.
Paying a little in cash solved that issue.
I am one of those people who are not happy until a task is complete. And the Banks make it all the worse over the holidays with the closures and then the delaying of the Fed Bank Wire Clear from hours to two or more days.
It does not hurt me as I float nothing. Cash now and never borrow.
Oh by the way, the Fed Bank Wire is the last kind of deposit you can make and be immediate ready to use the same day any way you want. Any other kinds result in a hold up to two weeks. Also gas station sales etc will lock your debit (If you are stupid enough to use one...) up to and above 100 dollars a time.
Now reviewing the balance sheet presented here, all that eating out is disgusting. I can take that money and feed a family at home for half or less and lay in ammo and more food for back up supplies to boot.
This person is lucky subway is not a tipping joint. If she went to a red lobster or something, they add and lock down 20% more for gratituies regardless of your intention to tip or not, and how much if any.
I pay off those vampires with cash when dinner is complete not credit card. And if the server does a good job, she or he will get a tip. If a bad job no tip.
"Cash now and never borrow" works. I suggest you use Ben Franklins and their smaller siblings instead of that infernal plastic if you want to be free of those vultures though. It's hard for the banks to profit from that system.
I got fucked over back in April, I rented a UHaul truck to move March 31 and wrote them a check. They did not deposit the check till April 27 when the account was too low to accomodate it. My CU was pretty good about it but I still had to pay $32, and I went down to the place that rented the truck to me and just ripped them a new one for shoddy business practices. It was the Pontiac/Cadillac dealership that is now just Caddy of course, and it doubly pissed me off because I bought a new 2008 Pontiac Solstice GXP from them a couple years ago, and it was so impractical that May of '09 I also bought a 3 year old pick up from them (talk about taking a bath on cars). Six weeks later I traded both for the BMW and they have been mad at me since, I figured they held the check on purpose, and they simply do not have a conscience or care about losing customers.
Now, except for rent when I need to pay by check I go down to the CU and get a free cashiers check, they can cash it, keep it, frame it on the wall, or stick it up their ass for all I care.
left all these monstorous blood sucking assholes years ago, suprised these TBTF assholes retain the customers they do... is it really worth the $100 for opening a checking account. As seen in the above example they'll probably reclaim the whole damn thing eventually anyways, and then some.
I'm plenty happy with my credit union. Honestly for what I need, there isn't a single thing they cannot provide me with.
Chase, lulz. Everyone I know that banked with them has gone running out of the building as if it were afire. Take the $100 bait and pay the price.
I closed my Wells F****ing account because of exactly what you describe. Not only did they rearrange the order of debit transactions, they charged me $15 to transfer money from savings to cover it. Add on all the other fees and I said screw you. Went to a Credit Union where everything is free.
http://vegasxau.blogspot.com
Uhmm, I call bullshit here. I went on the Pew website, and I didn't find any verification of Mrs. G's 'chronology. I also found this at the bottom of the graphic attached above:
Now, a quick glance at the above example doesn't show me how the fees would have been minimized. And oh, by the way, How about not SPENDING MORE than you have???? The only outrage here is that the dope with the debit card got charged a fee and GOVERNMENTS don't't when they SPEND BEYOND THEIR MEANS
Check kiting and living pay check to pay check... the new American Dream.
Yeah! It is ALWAYS the fault of the stupid poor people!
Blow it out your ass SE, Chase dinged my account in June 2009 for over 900 bucks in fees because I used my debit card to pay auto insurance on May 29th as I was taking off to go camping up by Crater Lake, my AllState agent told me that if I signed up for renewal by automatic withdrawal in future I would save 10% on my premiums so I agreed. When I got back from camping on June 2 (I get paid on the first) I found that they had taken the insurance premium out twice thus overdrafting it. I tried to access my account online but the site was down for the takeover of the online banker from the former bank WaMu. I could see from my ATM reciept hundreds were missing but I could not go online to find out why, and Chase can't/won't tell you what fees will be posting because they have a 48 hour delay on them, I would put in enough money to bring the account back to zero but it was all taken in fees and the next day they wanted hundreds more. I only had five small transactions UNDER twenty bucks all put together while I was off camping.
I told Chase that I did not do this, it was some kind of electronic error. AllState refuse to take responsibility for the mistake though eventually they did refund the second premium, do you think I still do business with them? Think I ever will? Think I don't warn everyone I meet not to use AllState? I told Chase it had incurred NO expenses in the matter and we both knew it did not, that the error was not mine so punishing me was pointless, that I had banked with WaMu for years without a single problem till the month Chase took over, and they knew that was true because they were the same goddamned people that used to take care of me when their shirts said WaMu instead of Chase. I told them my mortgage was with Chase if they did not return the fees they should not expect to get another house payment from me.
Now they have an empty house worth less than half what the balance is on the mortgage, they never got another house payment, but they did keep every dime of those fees.
Why is the house empty? Couldn't you have leased it to someone? They should be sure to record the lease.
Feral, it's complicated. The tax consequences would have been horrific, for one thing if you leave your house within the first three years after buying you must repay the first time home buyer tax credit, which is limited to the gain on the sale (including foreclosure). Had I not sent the keys back when I did the foreclosure might not have happened in time for that limitation to be effective. As it is the IRS billed me but I won, so they got tricky and audited me for 2008 and retroactively claimed I was not eligible for the tax credit in the first place and so billed me for that PLUS penalties and interest. Won on that too but it has taken all year. Anyway, the payments were higher than the rental market would bear, and my income is already tax free so I get no benefit from the tax advantages of being a landlord, in short I can't afford the negative income, plus social security is only tax free up to 25,000, go over 25k total and the whole amount becomes taxable at ordinary rates. The only reason I filed in 08 was for the fully refundable tax credit, then the only reason I filed in 11 was to send the form 5405 to show I had no repayment liability.
...aannnd *that*, sports fans, is why Vato won't do business with any business owned/controlled by Warren Buffett. That kind of rape-the-customer bullshit is pure Uncle Warren. Whenever he buys or takes control of a company, the first thing to happen is fees & fines *for that companies own customers* go through the roof. It's obvious they're taught to view their own customers/clients as cash cows to be milked right away, and THEN go looking for business. Like GEICO. "Give us 15 minutes.." Uh-huh. "Give us" 15 minutes of YOUR time, for free, and maybe we'll sell you something, if we decide you're worthy of our insurance. Which leads us to step 2 in the Buffett playbook: take all the difficult-to-service or troublesome customers, and throw them over the side. WB is interested only in skimming the cream, and will NOT stoop to the hard work of business if it can be helped.
If it ain't in the 10 commandments, it oughta be: Don't do business with scummy people you can't trust, Mrs. Gutierrez. Find yourself a S&L and go there. Oh, and BTW, quit using a fucking debit card!
It gets even better!!!!!
CITIBANK:
They send you your invoice and for those who go into the red, THEY CHARGE THE INTEREST ON THE ACCOUNT BEFORE THE INVOICE!
Meaning for example:
You can go minus 2000€ and you go to the max, you'll pay about 25 euro in interest. Before the invoice they charge you the 25 and send you, before your invoice a letter informing you of the overdraft fee which is also subtracted from the card.
Plus they charge you for the letter.
Move your money to a small bank or credit union.
Take the time to convince at least one other person to do so.
Ask them to convince one other person to do so too.
We are making a serious dent in deposits already. It does matter no matter how small the account.
All it takes for evil to win is that good men do nothing.
I have money at our local Community bank. Same fees exist. Of course, if there is a mistake, they'll fix it for you, no problem. But if you overdraw, bounce checks, have deposits that have checks that bounce, etc -- same onerous fees.
I know about the over draft fees, etc because some of my employees have accounts at the same banks. These guys are constantly paying over draft fees! Stupid thing is they have money in an attached savings account, but they either don't know how to balance a checkbook or have an IQ lower than a dead-plant
You're full of shit. Come in here defending this rape. People get fucked out of hundreds of dollars and you try and say it is their fault and you LIE and say that smaller community banks are doing it? Where is your proof asshole? Since you are new and an asshole, it is pretty likely you are a shill for WF. Your days of ripping people off are numbered asshole.
Sounds like Ifisted MyAnus needs watering and some sunlight...
yeah, they get you coming and going, a client of mine wrote a bad check and I was charged $24 for their mistake, also, Wells tries to hoodwink you into purchasing other services of theirs, fuck 'em!
Dude needs to eat out at restaurants less.
There's really not much difference in the cost of eating at restaurants versus buying at supermarkets and preparing one's food if there's only one or two people, especially if they collect 2-4-1 coupons. I've tried it both ways and eat in restaurants mostly now.
Sprint and countless others have the same predatory culture towards their customers. I dumped Wells Fargo 10 years ago because of this. Oh, and being this is my first post hello fellow chronic cynics and doomer porn addicts.
Welcome to you.
Realism and wanting something besides Ministry of Truth propoganda is not an addiction.
This is step 1 of the 12 step non-cotton candy eaters program.
Step 2 is don't buy any Green Bay Packers stock.
Lol! When I saw that news piece about buying stock in the Green Bay Packers earlier today, I thought it was like any other stock offering. WRONG!
Sprint is also a criminal enterprise. The only reason to do business with those pondscum is if you discover a way to fuck them.
Wells Fargos other 'banking business' includes supplying automatic weapons to drug cartels, and laundering their drug trade money.
Once in a while I write to Wells Fargo and ask if they can sell me a couple M-60's like they sell the Mexican drug kingpins....I never hear back.
Hey SheepDod-One...
Thanks for the good laugh..
(They never write back..)
I'm sure you'll all be sad to know:
Citigroup Plans to Cut 4,500 Jobs"Citigroup Inc. (C) Chief Executive Officer Vikram Pandit said the bank will cut about 4,500 jobs in coming quarters as he seeks to trim costs amid slumping revenue."
http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-12-06/citigroup-to-cut-4-500-jobs-on-...
Exactly how their balance (and off balance) sheets look...creative accounting at its finest...
I was a sheeple customer of theirs for 25 years and I got fleeced a few times. However, if you do get fleeced, call the customer service and complain and usually they will reverse the fees if you are not a serial overdrafter.
They manipulated the debits, just as this article states. They held onto deposits longer than necessary. They "floated" charges for days and days, my Visa check card purchases would pend and pend, hoping to draw the unwary customer into an overdraft fee of some type. They would charge 2.00 to get copies of checks with statements and 2.00 every time you talked to a live person, etc. They would charge 12.00 if you wanted a cashier's check. My fault for putting up with this! I don't know why I stayed, other than there is a TBTF WFB on every corner and it was "convenient".
I've since moved to a small healthy community bank that does not launder drug money, did not take TARP or take part in the 16 trillion not-so-secret-anymore Fed loans, was not involved in robo-fraud, robo-perjury and did not take part in "fraudclosuregate". As a matter of fact, the little bank had ZERO foreclosures last year as they perform due diligence before lending and work with their customers who sometimes run into financial trouble. They also did not securitize any loans and are not backers of MERS.
The small bank uses fair business practices and I have had ZERO problems in the last 2 years I've been with them. They also give zero-fee cashier's checks. I was so stupid not to switch sooner. I love my little community bank and the fact that I no longer support fraudulant insolvent Potterville zombies.
Years ago I was a bank programmer. This shit's easy to program. Just apply debits before credits.
Back then there was no such thing as an online realtime balance, making it easy to hide debits-before-credits manipulaiton.
Even now banks still get away with it because most people don't keep track of their account balance day to day. For every 1 that spots it and complains, 100 won't spot it.
We shouldn't be so hard hard on these banks! If WFC only relied on spread lending, advisory and brokerage, how could they justify a market cap of $140.5 BILLION???????????
Gives "Money Changers" a whole new meaning.
Note to the wise: having run a (small) business that revolved around cheques (don't ask) and cash, I've seen this kind of bullshit more than a few times.(As a small business, you tend to run a current expense account as a liquid one, and have a couple of others for long term capital and so on. Current account is wages, sundries and clearing, nothing more). Aka, Sunday closing you've $X,000 in credit, Monday you're hit with penalties and freezing because either they've cashed a cheque of yours within 24 hrs (despite, "it taking 4 days for cheques to clear into your own account" from other parties - this is particular to same bank cheques) , a "delay" on cash deposits (you hit the physical bank at 9am, deposit $X,000 and despite the clear rules on cash clearances being automatic, a withdrawal at 1pm cannot be processed) or best of all, "bounced" cheques being shown as actual funds in your account, which means that if you draw against the (online, visible to the minute) statement, you accrue penalty charges because you've drawn against funds that don't exist - and then they charge you for the "privilege" of entering someone else's bum cheque.
Seen it all.
Note to the wise: ignore your local branch manager (usually some tosspot who has done perhaps 4 years straight out of college on their in-house "business management" line) and ring direct office & talk to someone with clout. 99% of the time, all charges washed, an apology.
Although, this is my favourite: Local bank manager, after 5 requests to see the "business manager" are ignored or the promise of "call you back" fall through, talks to me in person. She's done 4 years as a "business adviser" in the same bank, and her explanation for the lack of contact is "the business manager's mother has been sick". Well, yes, I'm very compassionate about that: but I've 11 staff who all have lives, and we're trying to run a business. We discuss things for a few moments before she drops the bombshell: "Well, in 18 months trading, I see you've gone over your agreed OD twice1". My response: "Yes, and you can clearly see that one of those times was your own bank processing cheques in a non-sequential fashion, and I'd turned up [off site drive] at 9am on Monday to deposit cash to clear said issue, and the other was someone elses' bad cheque". Her response: "Well, as the computer says there's two defaults, I can't offer you a credit line". Me: "So, you're saying you can't offer a $1500 OD for a week just to cover this one instance when I know my P&L isn't going to balance cheques in/out, when I've shifted $190k through this current account alone this year?". Her response: "Well, you're obviously not running your business well".
This during a massive recession that has similar businesses in my field closing left, right and centre.
I did point out a few things about her relative position, the bank, and how the future was going down, and we mutually agreed that we would "re-evaluate" our positions in six months. Irony: she didn't do anything then, she closed it after I spoke (related complaint) to a supervisor on the phone, and she was directed to do an investigation on her own branch. Her reason: my "unacceptable" behaviour in that meeting. Three months prior. i.e. She issued a close order out of spite because I had the "crime" of complaining to a higher authority over yet another case where their inability to log cash payments (direct) caused a cheque bouncing [which, for the high-up peeps: in a rural community, your reputation is your business, you do not bounce cheques and so on to locals, however trivial the amount]. That the bank ordered her alone to investigate her own branch when she was the subject of the complaint shows you the general "fuck you" attitude of most majors, or that she's so fucking stupid she issues a reason post-A-hoc (you know, darling, best to complain about my "behaviour" after the meeting, and not because you're being investigated) was just all gravy, since a sale of the business was already in the pipe, and fell well over her "threatening deadline". And yes, I'd have had a decent case to a judge if I was bothered with her.
Best payoff. Watching her skulk behind cashiers whilst a money'd guy was attempting to get a meeting with her at noon [she was sitting 'on the side' of her cashiers, in plain view] explaining that his son was trapped in Cambodia without cash and he needed to wire it immediately, and it couldn't be done without a managers' say so. All cashiers stating "Sorry, she's at lunch, you have to make an appointment, next Wednesday is only time". I caught her eye. He was baffled at the lack of service. As he left, I politely got his attention, told him who she was, and how she was hiding in plain sight.
And gave him my card.
Neither he, nor I, bank there anymore.
Disclosure: Big Bank, moved to the east recently.
For my canine troll, in 50 words or less:
Ran a business in a extremely competitive industry where I had 18 months of not being in debt, bank manager told me that OD facilities weren't available because two instances of breaking said "No over-draught" were caused by their own practises. Female manager deals with it badly, issues closure demand after (yet another) failure on their behalf causes me to complain because she's a fucking pathetic idiot and bank gets her to investigate her own branch. She has a hissy fit, I don't care. Business sold, I laugh, and her own cowardice causes them to lose a customer worth $millions. Oh, and that other guy.
>Charlie Sheen comes in screaming "WINNING".
They learned how to nickel and dime from the best of them
IE: Goldman Sachs HFT
WF (and every bank BTW) has two sub-accounts for every checking account: a transactions sub-account and a "savings" sub-account. You probably did not read this statement, but it's been in every checking account prospectus over the past decade:
ACCOUNT ORGANIZATION
Your account may consist of a checking sub account and a savings sub account. The Bank may periodically transfer funds between these two sub accounts. On a sixth transfer during a calendar month, any funds in the savings sub account will be transferred back to the checking sub account. If your Account is a Plan on which interest is paid, your interest calculation will remain the same. Otherwise, the savings sub account will be non-interest bearing. The savings sub account will be governed by the rules governing our other savings accounts. This process will not affect your available balance, the interest you may earn, FDIC insurance protection, or your monthly statement.
This is how the bank manages checking accounts under fractional reserve banking. It's trying to "guess" how much money you'll need for your transactions so that it can loan out even more of it on a day-by-day basis. If you look at the above, it's important to udnerstand what the timeframe of the transactions is. It appears to be following the "every 6th transaction" is grouped method. He just had 10-11 in a day and then someone cashed a check that didn't clear under that day. Typical.
the jp morgue has been doing this for at least 4 years; got the cops called on me once when i brought proof of it into a branch.... no managers onsite? bullshit
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.
Thomas Jefferson, (Attributed)
3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)
I believe that banking institutions are more dangerous to our liberties than standing armies. If the American people ever allow private banks to control the issue of their currency, first by inflation, then by deflation, the banks and corporations that will grow up around [the banks] will deprive the people of all property until their children wake-up homeless on the continent their fathers conquered. The issuing power should be taken from the banks and restored to the people, to whom it properly belongs.
Thomas Jefferson, (Attributed)
3rd president of US (1743 - 1826)
Isn't Wells FarTgo one of St. Warren's favorite banks? WF would never nickle 'n dime dementia-ridden 95yr-old widows!
Or would it?
Cue to a freckled-faced 12 yr-old slurping a malt-shake in a 1950s chrome-encrusted Dairy Queen: Aw schucks- say it ain't so Uncle Buff!
I have wells fargo and they are thieves.
My father just closed his account at Wells exactly because of this plus he said due to their "piss poor service." He said the new clerks there are also rude. He moved his Mullah to a credit union where they actually try to please the customers he said.
He is right. Customer service is an anachronism throughout American now in my experience.
If I had my own personal Mullah, I would get him to send some suicide bombers to the SOB bank in question, instead of merely moving him to a credit union.
It's too damn bad that the CIA/Mossad has all the suicide bombers tied up in long term employment contracts. Think of the possibilities if it were not so . . .
Hoarding -- that's what it is!
Tyler- Here is something
China's Hu urges navy to prepare for combat
http://news.yahoo.com/chinas-hu-urges-navy-prepare-combat-160509787.html
"a stitch in time saves nine."
Tyler- Here is something
China's Hu urges navy to prepare for combat
http://news.yahoo.com/chinas-hu-urges-navy-prepare-combat-160509787.html
US Bank pioneered this years ago, I found out one month when I made an error and overdrew by 53 cents. By the time they were done rearranging my posted expenditures by amount I was overdrawn more than 300 bucks. At the time I got just about $800 per month veterans disability. It was right after I lost everything in the fire and those fuckers at the bank simply did not care. I was never informed of the policy, which was to "help" me so that my larger expenses like for rent and such were paid. Right. Had I not already been homeless at the time I would have been after that. They make billions in fees off of this scam and the comptroller of the currency simply allowes them to do it. Needless to say I never did one single more day of business with US Bank and never will, WaMu did not do it and that is why I went with them. Of course Chase took them over and is the absolute worst at clearing out your account for fees, do not even get me started on those theives.
If you are an adult these days you simply have no choice but to bank somewhere, if you are with a commercial bank rather than a credit union then you have nobody to blame but YOU when they steal your money now that you have been informed.
By the way, the theft being pointed out here, you know who it hits right? Poor people, because people with great credit or lots of money also have credit cards or savings accounts that can cover their overdrafts if they make a mistake. That is why it is allowed and it is really just another regressive tax on the poor. The more I think about it the more I detest the USA. Time to get going, leave.
You lost me at "overdraft."
From the movie American Ruling Class
Nickel and Dimed
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zCktOsuKpEs give it to 40sec
Good movie, free on Hulu
Is there an American ruling class? Ask Walter Cronkite
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=L9qyI7JVoi8
That story is nothing. Two years ago I had an account with BoA. Since I travel a lot, I check my account daily. I had checked my account in the hotel the night before my flight and I only had one "processing" charge pending from a local restaurant (as in still in process). The hotel incorrectly charged the stay on my debit card (I had to provide it for incidentals) instead of the corporate card. The phuckers at BoA approved the roughly $800 hotel bill and then charged me overdraft in the 10 previous transactions claiming that they cleared the same day as the hotel charge. Horse manure since I had checked my account the night before. I called them on it and they refused to refund my $350 in overdraft fees.
I closed that damm account as soon as I got home and moved my currency to a Credit Union. I also refi'ed my mortgage from BoA to Quicken Loans. I was not about to give those mafiosi a single cent more.
What would one expect when you have a low-life fascist pig like Warren Buffet involved in a corporation. Then again the clients choose to do business with fascist pigs . They are eating the shit sandwich they ordered.
Here's a Wells Fargo story, from about 2005. My neighbor across the street worked in their mortgage customer service. He didn't make calls; he took them, from people in trouble calling in. He told me then--2005--that the average person he talked to hadn't made a payment in nearly a year. He also said, even at that time, that you could stop making payments and live in your house for up to a couple of years.
Anyway, he said one thing that happened a lot was this. A person has made at least one late payment already in the life of their mortgage. They get a payment in close to the late date. That payment gets "put in the drawer" and not credited until it is a day late. That draws a late fee. The customer is not notified. Next month, the full payment amount comes in on time. But the late fee is deducted, so it goes down as an incomplete payment. Another fee incurred, and now the customer has missed a payment, by not having paid the full amount. This keeps going until the customer is in arrears for an entire month's payment. At this point, on paper they haven't paid, in full or on time, in months. They've sent in the correct total number of dollars, of course.
He told me--in 2005--that they had no intention of foreclosing the loan. That would cost them time and money. But they could extract an extra month's payment's worth of money from the client. Plus, they now had justification to retroactively jack all accounts to the penalty rate, etc. They played all kinds of games with escrow accounts too. Often if they held onto money that was supposed to go to insurance companies, the client would get a notification and pay their insurance company to maintain coverage. The bank could hang onto that money for months, if not permanently, and claim the client hadn't made the proper arrangements. He said they wouldn't do that to people who always made timely payments and stayed on top of things, though.
He quit that job not long after. But every so often he'd meet up with a former co-worker, and he'd always have an outrageous story to tell me after that.
This shit has been around for years! Hell I had an old bank that dinged me that way once, and only once! I even had (3) 50k cd's with them. Back then it was like 27$ per whack and they payed on the transactions. I raised hell, and left the bank when my 6 mo. cd's matured.
This does not happen to high net worth clients, it is just their way of discouraging the poor from using their precious bank.
Because high net worth clients have more than $300 in their account.
High net worth would lead me to believe that an overdraft would be a rare situation.
Good critical thinking skills you have.
I was with a guy for three years that had millions, and over $20 grand per month deposited in "earnings." Every once in a while he would fuck up, but all he had to do was call the bank and tell them to reverse it, they never gave him a single word of guff too. Because high net worth people are not stupid enough to keep really significant funds in checking accounts. His money was held at a brokerage account, but that was before banks and brokerages were slimed into one huge shit ball. He had other funds too, in trust for his kids, held in an out of state bank majority owned by his family, but nothing attached to checking.
You need a bank account and/or credit/debit card to pay for just about everything you don't carry out of the store in your own hands. Wanna rent an apartment? Credit check + bills. Rent a car? Credit card only. Any form of loan? Credit check + bills. Pay your bills? Checks, wire transfer, or credit, unless you like visiting a company office to settle every bill they send you.
It's not enough that they force you to use FRNs to settle all debts, they just about force you to use credit cards and bank accounts as well.
You cannot even pay utilities here in person, they closed all their customer service counters for gas, electric, phone, you have to pay those by phone, online, mail, and all of those require a bank account.
What happened to: "This note is legal payment for all debts public and private"?
Feral, the FRN is the legal tender and we MUST pay using those, but that does not mean the people billing you have to keep employees to man a customer service counter in every zip code for example. Or even every county. Here in Oregon Rocky Mountain Power bought out PP&L (Pacific Power) and immediately closed all customer service branches, all customer service and bill paying is now done online or via phone, but there is a hefty charge for paying by phone, $15 I think, never used that method. I pay online, but they send out an e-mail that says how much this months bill is and you can still mail them a check if you trust the post office to get it there on time and that they will open their mail and post to your account on time. If you want to see your bill you have to ask for a statement or get one online.
Avista for gas service ditto, no brick and mortar building you can go to to pay. Telephone too (landline anyway), the only monthly bill I have that I can go to a customer service window to pay is my Charter cable but they have one office with no parking area and never more than two or three clerks to service a county with a quarter million people, the waits AFTER you parked 3 blocks away are often in excess of an hour. I would pay them online instead but though they are my net provider I can never seem to make their own website recognize my password.
The point is that it is not the "dollar bill" in question here, it is that the state permits them to do all customer service for utilities via electronic means thus requiring you to use a banking intermediary.
WTF? I got red boxed and this happens.
ARRRRGH!
The TD(s) are done with their circle jerk I guess judging by the value of the content here.
Then again, if you get a real account, ATM fees are waived anyway and you don't pay shit.
Stupid is as stupid does.
Anyone on Zero Hedge that is still banking at the TBTF banks should stop complaining about how corrupt the system is. All people still supporting these banks, are a part of the problem.
If every day large numbers of retail customers all over America moved to credit unions and stopped politically supporting these people, this would make a huge difference. And if everyone that moved from these banks, convinced others to do the same, this would make an even bigger difference. These people are stealing from each and everyone of us. They are stealing from our children. They should not be supported in any way shape or form. Even if it's inconvenient to move, it is everyone's duty.
what f/n bullshit..she spent more than she has & is complaining......only Obumma can do that
Debit and credit cards have become the modern day 'church confessional' where banks can easily see how utterly bankrupt our society is (morally and spiritually) by the pattern of our purchases.
This isn't just Wells Fargo, it's every bank. My sister is a banking and finance lawyer who told me about this almost a decade ago. She was one of the rotten people tasked with worming transaction sequencing flexibility into the fine print in order to scam clients "legally". The fact that Wells Fargo got sued successfully just demonstrates that Wells didn't have good enough lawyers.
Nothing new to see here. Leave your bank and move to a credit union (my evil sister would advise that too).
Nice post! Might inteject another simple fact? Thank you. The ponzi effin [ Mortage Machine ] machine, ran out of ( fudge packing), Dodd/Franks. Have fun in GREECE Barney! Lube that giant rectal cavity!
I will tell you something else about this, when it happened to me the bank was dispensing $10 from the ATM right up until the end of the month, it was the last day of the month that they rearranged the posting order, had they kept a RUNNING large to small posting order I could not have been withdrawing from the ATM and incurring fees of $32 on each 10 dollar withdrawal. That is another thing, the example shows a $22 NSF fee, what was that like 1992? Since the government has the legal authority to end the practice and yet does not then we can deem it to be as much theft by government as by bankers, as if there were any difference these days.
"And that is why banks are desperate to pickpocket their clients: because once news of such practices is made public, everyone should pull their money. "
that could be an interesting event. A customer on OVERDRAFT should withdraw the money. Makes sense to me.
I have " ZERO" , complaints with my Credit Unions! I use banks for their /proposed/purposed charters. ( air-blimps & over sized marquis) They are a dime a dozen, and a massive consolidation is on the horizon.
Quit your bitching. Use cash. It's not that hard and it provides a modicum of restraint that credit and debit don't. And, in some purchases, you can get a better price if you have it ready to negotiate (used stuff).
Yes - the banks are utterly pathetic and make me sick. This is a little off-topic but it is increasingly difficult to get any sort of customer satisfaction anywhere.
Yesterday I set off to anonymously send a friend a gift card at a grocery store. He lives half-way across the country. The grocery chains website only allowed me buy a gift card in my name so I called the store. I asked the dope on the phone why on earth would I send a gift card to myself for a store 1500 miles away. She mumbled something about the bad economy and they were not allowed to take card numbers over the phone.
Two hours and three stores later I finally managed to do what I wanted. By the time I was done with my nice gesture I felt like wringing someone's neck.
I literally had to fight to pre-pay for food.
22 X 3 is hardly "nickels and dimes" - its real money!
I pay no fees, only because my wife works at a TBTF. At the consumer pooper end at that. She says they used to do it the other way - they'd pay as many bills as they possibly could with what you had in the account when the bills came in. Everything else was returned, including mortgages. And the sheeple screamed "WHAT ARE YOU DOING?? PAY THE MORTGAGE FIRST!", so now they do it this way. Truth is whatever way they do it, they are in business to make money, and they will make money, and someone will cry. Listen, you can bitch and whine all you want, call it nickel and diming, which it certainly is, or theivery, which in some cases it may also be, but it's also the way banks do business. My wife says 'When we pay these bills over and above what you have, we are in effect loaning you the money. For that, you should [and do] pay.' She's a staunch advocate of retail banking, knows next to nothing about the levered 'vomit' investments, derivative bombs or the rest.
TBTF policy is wrong and needs to be abandoned, but until then this is what we have. These guys or Credit Unions. Or the mattress.
Everyone should run their credit cards to the moon and walk away with a bunch of free shit then tell the banks to pound sand. AFter the cards are maxed out walk away from your mortgages. Fuck these parasites. Enough is enough. I'm fucking sick of it!!!!!!!!!!!!
Yesterday Wells Fargo, who took over my accounts from Wachovia, emailed me their newly "Revised Online Account Agreement" replete with scores of fees for everything they could possibly dream up. Today I moved my accounts elsewhere. Bye, bye Wells Fargo.
I keep more than $317 in my WFB checking account and thereby avoid the sort of problems Ms. Guiterrez suffers from. Perhaps one of you could write her and explain my highly complex financial strategy to her.
Do you "comprehend" why I don't close my account? If no, thats ok too.
Its called free checking.
Its why nowadays I have adopted the policy of just taking cash out of the atm, and paying for everything with that. I do not use the card for hardly anything anymore. Also makes keeping the checkbook under control easier, fewer transactions. Bank also loses that transaction fee.
Plus no one at said bank can say "geez this guy sure hits the liquor store a lot!" ;-)
I've had this same thing done to me by tdbank. Apparenty whatever transactions hit in the same day they can set the order for maximum pain.Not worried about customer satisfaction.
What I don't get is whu the bank can debit your account directly they should have to bill you.
Ive been done worse by tdbank as well. I have 2nd mortgage with them and they send me a notice in a plain unmarked envelope clearly intended to be mistaken as junk mail that if i dont send them proof of insurane cover that they would take insurance for me. I did send them proof of coverage per thier requirement and theu took insurance for me anyway. When i called in effort to straighten it out they essensially laughed at me and said they were not sure why the decisión was made but that they could put me in touch with the decisión makers. Took me six months of calling to resolve.
Then i had a chance to refi and it fell through because tdbank refused to subordinate.
The banks have your back they re just waiting for chance to put the knife in.
They can and WILL do worse than that, they can apply all incoming amounts against your balance as they come in and you are OK because you are responsible, but then on the last day of the statement period retroactively rearrange your incoming debits from high to low, and apply fees at the point of the first overdraft making even more of your transactions subject to NSF fees. The more fees the more debits that did not get paid and triggered more fees. It happened to me for a mistake of half a buck. But it only happens once because anyone stupid enough to let a banker do that to them a second time is too dumb to have a checking account, they need a conservator.
85% of all bank errors, e.g. in your monthly checking account statement, go in favor of the bank. It's a very big business. Hmm, I wonder if they do it on purpose?
I was a victim of these malicious algorithms, I noticed them long before any of this became public, it has infuriated me so I have yet to pay of the $400 dollars in overdraft fees they charged me by not processing items in temporal order.
If you think that is bad, what then do you think of the the latest suggestion from the finance sector in Denmark: Customers should pay a fee WHEN USING CASH! This is no joke. Unfortunatley I could not find an english article on the subject: http://politiken.dk/tjek/penge/dinepenge/ECE1471237/forbrugere-og-politikere-er-imod-kontantgebyr/
The last time I experienced this, oh like 4 yrs ago, I got on the phone to boa, the rep couldn't explain it, I went to the branch, that rep couldn't explain it, so I waited for the manager and sat there til he removed all his bullshit fees and left having all fees removed cause seriously...they couldn't explain it! Try walking in 10-15 minutes before they close...then explain to them that you reconciled bank accounts for a living and watch the magic happen;) And seriously, if you don't have balls enough to tell them what to do and what you expect, don't try this at home!