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Presenting A Post Mortem Of "Anonymous" First Trade Reco: Anon To Give Muddy Waters A Run For Its Fraudbuster Money

Tyler Durden's picture


Yesterday we reported on the historic transition of Operation Anonymous from a loose, disorganized, and quite dangerous hacker collective, to a (substantially more) organized, opaque, unregulated, and seemingly, quite effective and just as dangerous research organization. As Zero Hedge first reported, yesterday Anonymous (which is now known as Anonymous Analytics) came out with a report on (then) $HK 8.5 billion Hong Kong agri-firm Chaoda, alleging the company is a total fraud, and that its stock will soon be delisted. So how did Anon do when the stock opened for trade late last night Eastern time? See for yourself. It looks like Muddy Waters has finally got some competition. We can't wait until these dedicated short sellers finally shift their attention away from China, and start taking down the ponzi monstrocities of our own stock market...


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Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:02 | 1715794 Smithovsky
Smithovsky's picture

short and distort?

i have to admit, i did check out their puts after reading that story

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:02 | 1715810 X.inf.capt
X.inf.capt's picture

i was just thinkin' the same damn thing....

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:31 | 1715822 Smithovsky
Smithovsky's picture

I meant yesterday.  

And unfortunately they don't have any

Great job, Anon.  I hope you go after the big fraudsters soon - everyone knows who they are.  

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:39 | 1715967 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Monstro-cities are those MT things in China. Can't Tyler(s) proofread, spell, something?

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 22:28 | 1717212 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

That's part of the premium package. ;)

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:07 | 1715832 DormRoom
DormRoom's picture

A hedgefund is using Anon to leverage up in the options market.  So it's like having a 'short' weapon of mass destruction.  Hedgefunds can make a riskless trade using spreads, if you know you your short shock troops are about to strike.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 16:16 | 1716124 Skid Marks
Skid Marks's picture

Soros would be proud.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 17:49 | 1716430 TJ00
TJ00's picture

I hope it's Eclectica, I can see Hugh Hendry as a Morpheus character telling some leet hacker "Lad, you are The One"

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 00:40 | 1717418 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Did Paulson own this one too?

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:00 | 1715800 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

they have to finance operations somehow. lulz

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:03 | 1715813 Edward Fiatski
Edward Fiatski's picture

C.I.A. takes care of that. :)

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:12 | 1715850 john39
john39's picture

seems pretty obvious doesn't it.   can't trust much these days.  big brother is everywhere, and still can't manage to track down emmanual goldstein.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:15 | 1715860 Edward Fiatski
Edward Fiatski's picture

Mr. Goldstein is swimming with the fishes in the Indian Ocean in the alternate reality.

Goldstein is dead, long live Emmanuel Goldstein!

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 18:01 | 1716471 eisley79
eisley79's picture

wikileaks, anon, lulzsec, ALLLLL cia front groups.  They recruit idiot patsies to take falls, and create a false sense of fighting "the man"

every single thing any of them has ever done, pushes a NEO-CON objective.


Tue, 09/27/2011 - 21:11 | 1716997 SilverDosed
SilverDosed's picture

Since when did anon go from endlessly talking about boxxy on 4chan to short-selling chinese fraudcaps? Am I having an acid flashback?

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 22:34 | 1717219 MayIMommaDogFac...
MayIMommaDogFace2theBananaPatch's picture

I guess the name Alcoholics Analysis is now out-of-the-question -- too similar.  Damn.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:45 | 1715872 RemiG2010
RemiG2010's picture

Yeap. And that's the way it was, is and will be...

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:21 | 1715887 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

Doesn't Goldstein have the same RFID/GPS chip planted in his head that I do? Doesn't everyone?

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 16:28 | 1715929 RemiG2010
RemiG2010's picture

Nope. Our was made of gold and was planted  ..... cannot tell that in open forum. That's a secret! The secret, secret...


Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:34 | 1715939 john39
john39's picture

what, and spoil the never ending hunt?  unworkable.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:01 | 1715804 shazbotz
shazbotz's picture


Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:06 | 1715817 Mercury
Mercury's picture

Well at least competition and animal spirits are alive and well in one corner of the marketplace: building credibility for detecting fraud. 

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:03 | 1715819 Floordawg
Floordawg's picture

Some sweet vigilante style justice in a ridiculously unjust world... way to go Anonymous Analytics!

Your doing the work of super-heroes, KEEP IT UP!

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:07 | 1715823 Kitler
Kitler's picture

Illegally obtaining evidence of widespread fraud and then publicly distributing it will make them the top target of the SEC. Terrorism in the markets must not be tolerated.

And to add insult to in jury it makes the regulators look bad.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:09 | 1715840 dwdollar
dwdollar's picture

As if being busted for watching porn at "work" doesn't look bad enough...

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:16 | 1715865 ReallySparky
ReallySparky's picture

Didn't you hear the news, they are passing new rules regarding the Market, so that when it closes they get more breaks to watch porn. 

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:10 | 1715841 curbyourrisk
curbyourrisk's picture

SEC has to get passed all the porn before they actually go after companies these days.


Yeah thats right...I SAID PORN BITCHEZ!

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:28 | 1715904 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Gay MIDGET porn at that!

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 07:32 | 1717818 Archduke
Archduke's picture

if the SEC was doing its job, they would be pursuing the fraudsters, not the whistleblowers.

this is just the sort of re-balancing mechanism one hopes anonymous or wikileaks can provide.


Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:05 | 1715824 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

time to cross the pacific

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:07 | 1715829 Waffen
Waffen's picture

"Wait! Here comes the crescendo!"


Well played Anon, well played.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:09 | 1715839 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Well played Anon can get busy hacking US market bubble stocks, the FED, etc.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:07 | 1715831 mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Truth seeds haven't been so much fun since Gilligan's Island.  :D

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:33 | 1715928 Whalley World
Whalley World's picture

Not sure if it's all Truth.  I was at the Silvercorp AGM last week and the CEO was hopping mad and said the allegations were "Bullshit"  He said ther accounting firm will release full details shortly.

Time will tell but it looks legit to me from their presentation.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:09 | 1715837 adr
adr's picture

Maybe they can send some people to look into the fraud in the oil market.

I was right Friday night when I said we would see $85 oil again in short order.

I want to see this market tank just to wipe the smiles off those asshats on TV.  5% up in oil in one day, bullshit.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:11 | 1715848 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I remember that Hal Lindsay interview from about 8 months ago, he said the time when it all collapses huge is when markets start swinging 5% daily, oil hits $120's and then drops to the 80's, and silver gets a 50% haircut within a couple days, he said it would happen around this fall. Seems we're there now.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:16 | 1715867 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Got a source or a youtube on that video?

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:20 | 1715884 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I believe it was done on Alex Jones show so its likely in his channels archives.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:32 | 1715920 kito
kito's picture

sheepie, i never hear you say much about pms--do you hold the gold?

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:38 | 1715956 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

I have 40 oz of gold. And a lot of silver Im not sure how much exactly.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 16:14 | 1716117 tricklecreek
tricklecreek's picture

Lindsey Williams I think

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 16:13 | 1716119 tricklecreek
tricklecreek's picture

Lindsey Williams I think

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:09 | 1715838 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

several of them are under indictment already.  looks like they didn't learn their lesson.  you can't do this stuff anymore without getting in major trouble. so they will get in trouble and more of them will go to prison.........anonymous is not that is very difficult to be anonymous on the internet anymore.............

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:14 | 1715856 RemiG2010
RemiG2010's picture

...and which anonymous was the anonymous?.... You mean the GS anonymous ... algo?

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:18 | 1715875 bbq on whitehou...
bbq on whitehouse lawn's picture

The point is the model works.

Its now profitable and where there is profit there will be money, big money.

Who cares about spending miillions when you can make billions.

Page Johnny Mnemonic for that data run.


Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:22 | 1715891 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Why worry about billions....when you can make MILLIONS? 

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:55 | 1716043 NoClueSneaker
NoClueSneaker's picture

... even the thousands -

in case she has a better divorce lawyer ...


Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:28 | 1715906 fyrebird
fyrebird's picture

and yet a high degree of anonymity is the only thing going to save us once the police state lands

and tor is your friend 

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:11 | 1715843 Atch Logan
Atch Logan's picture

There are really bad Chinese stocks, corrupt, and really bad American stocks, corrupt.  However, I do not believe that "Muddy Waters" and his buds are outing the Chinese companies (which may or may not be corrupt) because of his civic duties to America and American investors.  He has found weak sisters, just as sleazy(maybe) as him, and has attacked with a significant chance to doing damage and making a pile.  Not for a minute do I think this scum (Muddy Waters et al.) is worth shit. If the China companies are sound, I hope they take him and his buds to Hell. All of this is a great reason why shorts should be outlawed. 

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:13 | 1715854 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

'Outlaw shorts'? I'd actually love seeing that, and where the markets would be within 1 month, 50% lower at least.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:33 | 1715931 I am a Man I am...
I am a Man I am Forty's picture

fuck yeh!  only bet that stocks go up!  fuck yeh!

you do realize that they lose money if the stock goes up right?  if they are wrong and stuff

you also realize that if your DD is better than theirs, and you think they are a legit company that is going to make shit tons of money, you can buy on a speculative sell off, right?

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:39 | 1715959 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

The type of manipulation you are alleging Muddy Waters to have done would be ineffective if the markets were regulated and policed.  However, everyone knows they aren't and anything goes.  So when someone yells fire, and seems to back it up with facts, it creates a stampede, especially out of bubble enhanced markets rife with fraud.

Go ahead and blame Muddy Waters rather than the USG and the Chinese for not enforcing the law and ripping off shareholders.  Censoring people who out them, whether for personal profit or otherwise, just protects the scam artists and insiders who are screwing the public.  

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:12 | 1715849 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture




and what the fuck is a choad?

It sounds to much like load!

Load of shit in someone's pants!!

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:56 | 1716047 Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

I think it's that gunk that gathers under your balls during excercise or from lack of washing.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 22:42 | 1717234 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Yellow Frumunda cheese?

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 22:46 | 1717241 Shortbus Bully
Shortbus Bully's picture

There are 2 widely accepted definitions of the word chode:

1.  The perineum (aka taint)

2. A penis which is wider than it is long

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:13 | 1715855 Edward Fiatski
Edward Fiatski's picture

What I want to know is, which company on the Hong Kong Exchange sells quality kidneys? Thanks.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:16 | 1715859 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Better to talk to the NYC organ trafficking Rabbis about that.

Or did everyone already forget about that story already?

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:17 | 1715870 Edward Fiatski
Edward Fiatski's picture

Kosher? I don't want rotten goyim meat parts inside of me. LOL

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:49 | 1716023 Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

Wow, didn't even hear about that...

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 22:43 | 1717236 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Ask Steve Jobs....

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:15 | 1715861 ag3nt0rang3
ag3nt0rang3's picture

Extra Extra Read all about it.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:15 | 1715863 Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

Takes a fraud to know a fraud -- Anonymous may be the second incarnation of WikiLeaks the defrauded CIA spin machine

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:19 | 1715880 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

So if I say the markets and the FED bankers are all frauds, that means Im a fraud too?

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:26 | 1715897 Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

No -- I believe we have a Good guy vs Bad guys scenario playing out. I do believe that Anonymous has good hearted individuals working towards a common goal, just would question why and how they got into the Analytics business.

But to your point I'm happy As long as the message gets out that there are ponzi companies that should be shut down. Just don't believe its wise for people to be rushing into the "we're all Anonymous now" camp 

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:31 | 1715912 Nascent_Variable
Nascent_Variable's picture

Something doesn't smell right here, but I wouldn't write it off immediately as bullshit.

It will be interesting to see what the next target is.  If they keep targeting asian companies, it's probably a bullshit front, but if they go after a big western target or especially if they go after the first people to criticize them loudly, I'd be more inclined to believe it's legit.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:45 | 1715997 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

you may be on to something. but i still wouldn't buy their schtick unless they disclosed fraud at one of the usual suspects, and not some bullshit domestic windmill company.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:47 | 1716010 Alpha Monkey
Alpha Monkey's picture

Yeah, didn't they come out all hot and heavy against the fed... and now they are plinking chinese corporations?  Maybe fed cyber security is too good for them?

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:54 | 1716039 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

if this hacker operation is coming out of an office in virginia, i'm all for it. our tax dollars at work. it's about time. it seems like the chinese have been hacking our shit for long enough.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 16:32 | 1716167 Atch Logan
Atch Logan's picture

Where have you been.  They have been targeting China conpanies for months.  Over and over and over.  As if no American companies are doing the same thing.  China companies are vulnerable, can't react as soon legally, and all these short fuckers to  defend thenselves.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:18 | 1715871 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

My bad. Did I say $8.5B? I meant zero bitchez!


No soup for you!

I drink your milkshake!



Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:20 | 1715883 Atch Logan
Atch Logan's picture

I own physical silver and gold, and I speculate/trade daily, usually with Canadian metal pinks.  But to use the system to destroy companies, American or Chinese or whatever, so you can short them, after you crucify them publically, so all the little trader boys will follow suit, is cowardly, corrupt and just plain bull shit. If there were some real regulations on shorting, fine, but now shorting is just rolling the dice. Fuck everyone but me and those I have conned.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:47 | 1716013 The4thStooge
The4thStooge's picture

So how should one go about exposing fraud then? What is the appropriate method of spreading the truth?

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:48 | 1716016 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

But to use the system to destroy companies, American or Chinese or whatever, so you can short them, after you crucify them publically, so all the little trader boys will follow suit, is cowardly, corrupt and just plain bull shit.

Isn't what you say Muddy Waters does exactly what the whole investment industry does on the long side?  Wall Street use every trick of propaganda possible, including the falsification of government data, leave you holding the worthless kernals of corn from the bull's runny diarrhea. 

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:21 | 1715885 adr
adr's picture

Anybody with a basic calculator can prove than most public corporations are cooking the books. I mean finding evidence Chaoda was inflating profits and mistating margins.

Just go to a local store and ask a manger how much they sold that day. Even if you triple the number and multiply it by 365 you won't come anywhere close the reported sales the parent company claims. 

Maybe in some wild fantasy land each Lulu store sells around $15k in inventory every day but in the real world I seriously doubt it. The entire market can be brought down by a single guy with access to real books and a Casio watch from 1985.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 16:09 | 1716102 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Anybody with a basic calculator can prove than most public corporations are cooking the books.

Yes, but those books look different at different times in the market cycle.  At the top of the bubble, they are as positive and divorced from reality as possible.  But logic tells us they have to readjust at some point or their numbers would reach infinity. 

The Fidelity Magellion story, where Peter Lynch and other big funds were given inside information not shared with the public (while writing books about what great stock pickers they were) led me to suspect that market bottoms have a short period during which the books are intentionally massaged down rather than up.  This gives the companies an opportunity to reset their books to reality while attracting the kind of institutional support that makes a rock star a rock star.  The deeper you understate the health of the company, the more valuable the inside information, and hence, the better chance to attract the kind of support that can defend against and punish anyone stupid enough to short a rock star of the new bull market.


Tue, 09/27/2011 - 18:29 | 1716544 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

I first heard about this in the early seventies after the "go-go" market blew up. The hot stocks of the day (Remember Performance Systems ne Minnie Pearl Fried Chicken, National Student Marketing, Four Seasons Nursing Homes? ) had a common method of juicing their stock price.

At the time "growth stocks" were what everyone was looking for. So you wanted to show a pattern of steadily growing earnings year after year. Whatever accounting tricks it took, you did. Eventually it became impossible to dissemble any longer.

Then came "take a bath year" when you revised your lying accounting downward and wrote off everything including the kitchen sink.

Next year, start the same games again.

Fortunately for the liars nobody reads the prospectus or the annual reports before buying a stock.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:22 | 1715888 fyrebird
fyrebird's picture

a (substantially more) organized, opaque, unregulated, and seemingly, quite effective and just as dangerous research organization.

Let's not say they're giving Muddy Waters a challenge. More like the CIA.

And Another Thing: People here keep going on about how Anon are the CIA. That's just so messed up I don't know where to start. You folk need to get your heads out of the sand; not everyone with technical chops is a spook. In fact a lot of the freaks are working out of a Starbucks or Peets, jacking in from the free wifi while having a latte. What you think is 3vil goobermint M/IC wanking is just guys (and some gals) fucking with things for teh lulz. If you can't follow along, well get an education. It's not like there's a secret initiation ritual or something. Otherwise you just start to sound bitter or deranged.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:25 | 1715892 Edward Fiatski
Edward Fiatski's picture

You don't seem to understand the purpose behind the asset known as "Anon".

Come back to me when you'll have to use your real name and address to log in to Zerohedge, though, by the time that happens there won't be a ZH.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:36 | 1715944 fyrebird
fyrebird's picture

anon? an asset? i just loled

oh btw zh is all over anon and always was. surprise. pwnage. their denial will be the proof

tyme for another latte


Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:25 | 1715898 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yea its almost like people cant possibly accept that something might actually be the French say, a certain.... well something or other I dont know French, but in the movie Goodfellas the Italian Grandma said it pretty good 'He's content in being a jerk, but it sounds much nicer in Italian'...yea thats it.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:25 | 1715896 Big Ben
Big Ben's picture

Just curious. Who is Chaoda's auditor? And what other firms do they audit?

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:27 | 1715901 Atch Logan
Atch Logan's picture

You all supporting Muddy Waters and his group are just saying that Chinese companies are crooks based on his allegations and before relevant and just investigation.  You are like mad vigilantes, wanting to hang someone just for the blood. In America (Ha) no one is supposed to be guilty before tried.  What gives Muddy Waters and his buds the right to investigate, judge and pass judgement on anyone.  Shit.  Do I really live in America????

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:33 | 1715922 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

YEP thats me, sign me up! Drag em out in the streets and hang em all, lying pieces of shit each and every last one of em...these fuks dont deserve the benefit of the doubt, and if there was an 'innocent' one in the mix he's just as guilty for rubbing elbows with them and going along with it!.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:36 | 1715941 Rynak
Rynak's picture

"What gives anyone the right to investigate and pass judgement on anyone?"

Erm, even though the USA is on a fast-track to a nation where you should feel right at home, i think you could make it a little quicker, by emigrating to a totalitarian and repressive dictatorship - should suit you well, you fucking asshole.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:39 | 1715961 Atch Logan
Atch Logan's picture

Well, I live in Kansas and I hear this every day.  But my education at Cal Berkely and Stanford taught me to ask questions, stand up for myself, and believe in the principals of decency and fairness.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:43 | 1715989 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Doesn't matter. Your entire argument rests on free speech being equal to persecution by law. Since persecution by law in this culture is supposed to be exclusively in the hands of the government, your argument can be summarized, with the abolishment of free speech and the ability to investigate PUBLICLY available information. Phrased even harsher: Any investigative and open mind, is a criminal.

THAT, is why i wrote that you would feel right at home in a country, that is the opposite of what the USA *claims* to stand for.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:53 | 1716036 Atch Logan
Atch Logan's picture

Well, bud, anyone can have their freedoms.  but to tell me to get out of Dodge infringes on mine, ass hole.  I noticed that you didn't answer my question:  you must have been raised my your mother....

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:58 | 1716054 Rynak
Rynak's picture

but to tell me to get out of Dodge infringes on mine,

Anon neither told you to do so (which by the way does NOT infringe on your freedom - just perhaps on your ego), nor forced you to do so - which means that they never claimed nor attempted power over you.

In a nutshell, you're talking bullshit all across the board.... or in this case, the thread.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:57 | 1716055 Atch Logan
Atch Logan's picture

"Any investigative open mind is a criminal" fits right in with homeland security.  You are for shit and not worth my time.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 16:01 | 1716073 Rynak
Rynak's picture

Blergh, you fucking retarded idiot..... did it even occur to you, that considering the context (you know, the one you cut away in your quote), i associated this style of thinking to YOU, and REJECTED it?

Bah, why do i even still waste letters on this retard. Bye.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 00:49 | 1717431 Freddie
Freddie's picture

LOL!  You were educated at Stanford and Berkely and you live in Kansas.   What are you an education major?   Who the f*** would live in Kansas if they had a top education?  Maybe yoiu work for an insurance company in Topeka.   Or Boeing doing the oil changes on 737s.    F these scammy Chinese companies.   PS: there ain't no decency and fairness at Cal Berkely.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:39 | 1715963 Big Ben
Big Ben's picture

If you think Muddy Waters & company are lying/mistaken/exaggerating, then you have a golden opportunity to buy these quality companies at very cheap prices. Eventually the truth will come out and you will be rich.

Actually vigilanteism and "getting the hell out of Dodge" are also American traditions.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:46 | 1716002 Atch Logan
Atch Logan's picture

The last time someone told me to get out of Dodge, here in Kansas, I pulled my 380 and he ran like hell.  All I saw was his ass. Are you up for it?

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 16:02 | 1716079 Big Ben
Big Ben's picture

I don't think that you really understand the expression "get the hell out of Dodge". I wasn't suggesting that you should leave the country. "Getting the hell out of Dodge" means heading for safety when things seem dangerous. In this case, it would mean selling a stock when questions are raised about the honesty of its management.

However if you are going to pull guns on people, perhaps it really would be better to for you to leave the country at least until you understand English. You might shoot someone for making a perfectly innocent statement.

But I think that after all these posts and all this berating of ZH for their coverage of this issue, that you should really make a big investment in these Chinese companies. "Put your money where your mouth is.". (That is another American expression. Perhaps you can get someone to explain it to you.)

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 16:12 | 1716110 Atch Logan
Atch Logan's picture

When you tell someone in Kansas to "get the hell out of Dodge" you mean just that; Dodge is in Kansas.  Your ignorance runs before you.  ZH can stand for itself, and has.  On the other hand, if you look me in the face and tell me to get out of Dodge, then back up, draw and suffer the consequences.  That is  a threat. We legally  pack here, and pansy fuckers like you, fighting over stocks and tellling people to leave their home, are are suspect and queer.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 16:49 | 1716190 Big Ben
Big Ben's picture

And of course "putting your money where your mouth is" means physically placing your money in your mouth.

Carrying a gun may be legal, but threatening someone with it is definitely not. If you had really done that, you probably would have been arrested for assault. Freedom (such as the freedom to carry a gun) is only for people who use it responsibly.

Advising someone to "get the hell out of Dodge" is more like a friendly warning not to do something dangerous. Not a threat.

You are a violent and angry guy, Atch. With a big chip on your shoulder. There really are great opportunities in China right now. Why don't you go there?

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 16:42 | 1716203 fellatio is not...
fellatio is not fattening's picture

You sir give the term "REDNECK" a bad name, to want us to believe you pointed a gun at someone for say "get outta Dodge" is just plain moronic.  It may sound good to you and your good ol boy's but not reality, now I know, you will invite me "down there" to see if you mean it, but my guess is that your fat ass coon wife will be home soon and she will fetch you supper and a beer than you can go back to playing your video games before bedtime while she gives the kids a bath, sweeps the porch, and goes out to the pond to wash her cooch.  So please stay in Dodge where you are safe and the Sheriff knows your truck

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 00:51 | 1717434 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Pulled a .380?  Pop gun.  Someday you may try that and the other guy will pull a .45 and you are toast,.

.380 is like a rat gun.  

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 16:23 | 1716146 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

What gives Muddy Waters and his buds the right to investigate, judge and pass judgement on anyone.

Oh, I don't know, maybe free speech as delineated in the First Amendment?

Where goest hot money, there you will find fraud companies, and nowhere in human history has the money been as fast and furious as China.

How many companies sprang up during the tech stock boom with dot com on the end of their name with absolutely no products, customers, or sales?  The same goes for any company with tronix at the end of their name in the 60s.  The same went for railroad stocks with tracks to nowhere back in the 19th and early 20th century.  The same went for real estate in Florida in the 1920s.  Nothing ever changes.  At least Muddy Waters IS passing judgement on them, no government officials seem to be.  At least individual investors today have the internet and get a chance to make up their own minds when someone, somewhere, is yelling Caveat Emptor.



Tue, 09/27/2011 - 18:43 | 1716569 Diogenes
Diogenes's picture

Going back to SEC regulations from the thirties, publicly owned companies are supposed to provide certain information to the public in the form of prospectuses and financial  reports. The investing public is supposed to "investigate before you invest".

Making mature, fact based financial judgements is what it is all about. Don't confuse this with being arrested by the police, a much different matter.

By the way if this thread is a true measure of your education you should ask Cal Berkeley and Stanford for your money back.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:31 | 1715913 Absalon
Absalon's picture

There's is no proof that this Anonymous is the same as the other Anonymous and on its face it seems unlikely.


This Anonymous is way late to the party:


Mar 2, 2011

Shares in mainland vegetable farmer Chaoda Modern Agriculture tumbled 5 per cent yesterday after analysts raised strong questions about the company's high levels of capital expenditure, with one saying he had no idea where the money was going.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:34 | 1715936 Edward Fiatski
Edward Fiatski's picture

Technically, we're all anonymous.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:37 | 1715949 Atch Logan
Atch Logan's picture

Raising questions and proving something are totally diferent.  If the questions bother you, get out of the stock.  Don't malign it ignorantly and then publish a lot of shit so you can short it, ignorantly.

Wed, 09/28/2011 - 02:07 | 1717530 o2sd
o2sd's picture

Out of interest, how much does astroturfing pay? I think I could be quite good at it, and if the pay is good, then I want to get in on the action.


Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:37 | 1715953 Shazam
Shazam's picture

DGW halted almost 6 months. How can SEC and NYSE aloow this? 6 months of out of $$ options expiring on people


Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:40 | 1715970 Zola
Zola's picture

Back to some Wild West Justice ! Indeed interesting to see who they will investigate next : how about the offshore SPV vehicles of JPM to know the size of the silver short  ?

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 15:57 | 1716053 reader2010
reader2010's picture

"When in doubt, stay out."

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 16:06 | 1716088 Anarchyteez
Anarchyteez's picture

Blah blah blah, Northwest Territorial Mint
is telling all purchasers of PM's to expect
delivery in three to six months from receipt
of payment.

"It" nears....that being fan blade and turd.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 16:13 | 1716116 Edward Fiatski
Edward Fiatski's picture

Who woudda thunk it: if you leverage a tangible asset, the most liquid of all, second only to oil (LOL), people would get murdered? Hmm?

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 16:16 | 1716125 samsara
samsara's picture

It wouldn't surprise me if their targets were coincidently in the sights of the US/UK.

Maybe they are just one of the 3 letter acronyms  and are modern Perkins type of hit men???


Tue, 09/27/2011 - 16:38 | 1716186 SmittyinLA
SmittyinLA's picture

Anon is a gang of jerkoff poser bullies, if they had any balls they'd hack the DOJ & SEC and post their inter-office emails as well as every home address of every member of Congress.

They only go after the weak and slow like hyhenas, they're bottom feeders.

Exhibit A: they hacked the City Fullerton public website

They didn't hack the video library and post the police beating a man to death, they just hacked a public info site to complain about the police beat down, had they posted the video online the DOJ would be prosecuting right now.   

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 18:15 | 1716485 Rynak
Rynak's picture

You sir, just as a lot of others here, neither understand much about the technical stuff behind "hacking" (which actually is "cracking" - "hacking" just means "programming", but for hollywood reasons has become to mean "cracking"), nor do you understand much about all those groups like wikileaks, anonymous, etc.

Here are a few hints:

1. You cannot just wave a magic wand, and get into an arbitrary computer. If you believe that, you suffer from hollywood-education. Getting access to a computer requires that it has "loopholes", and webservers etc usually are not only the most "directly" accesable part of a computer, but because of the complexity of nowadays webtech, also the most probable to contain loopholes.

That is why you see so much "hacking" of stuff stored on webservers, and so little hacking of stuff of the more "private/internal" areas of computers - let alone, getting access to the LAN behind a webserver, which requires total incompetence of the administrators to be possible. TL/DR? If the administrators of a system are even halfway competent, "hacking" usually only breaks the "outer layers" of a system, but cannot get much further into the inner layers of a system (there are exceptions, but they are - well, exceptions, not the rule).

2. The mentioned groups have a track record, of making news NOT by "hacking" systems, but simply investigating information that is already "quasi-public". Check out the history of wikileaks, anon, etc.... most of the stuff they "expose", is info that most of the public knew already and just via them got confirmation, DoS attacks on webservers, defacements of websites, and plain old publishing stuff of whistleblowers.... all of those are "easy" jobs from a "hacking"-POV.

Bottom line? Wikileaks, anon, et all.... are not "hackers" as it is popularily understood (if only, because a large part of the public understanding of "hacking" is pure fantasy and technically impossible). What those guys are, is simply internet-activists, not "hackers".

So, to those claiming that those groups aren't "real" just because they do not live up to your hollywood-fantasies..... inform yourself, or stay a clueless retard.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 16:58 | 1716269 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

As soon as they finish investigating STDs in the Porn industry, the SEC will surely investigate Anonymous Analytics.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 18:34 | 1716566 PulauHantu29
PulauHantu29's picture

Management of so many companies is corrupt; look at ENRON, Worldcom, and on and on.

The commodity ETFs may be a better $80 million CEO bonuses and crappy management and less chance of fraud.

Great story and hats off to these new analysts.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 19:20 | 1716691 chump666
chump666's picture

These guys (girls?) kick ass.  They took out Sino, excellent, since China is one big Fraud Cap - it's open season...

Good luck to them.

Tue, 09/27/2011 - 19:35 | 1716737 juggalo1
juggalo1's picture

It will be hard to similarly short-sell in the US markets.  In China and developing countries the frauds seem to relate to idle factories, fake sales, and non-existent land claims.  In the US the frauds are mostly paper assets and mark to fantasy valuations.  While you can find frauds in the US they mostly involve intangible assets AND (most key) are subject to TBTF where the government can just give them 100B dollars out of the blue if they get in trouble.  How do you short that?

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kevin22's picture

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