The Question(s) Of Italy's 2451.8 Tons Of Gold

Tyler Durden's picture

As the following update from the World Gold Council reminds us, at the end of October, Italy had 2,451.8 tonnes of gold, or roughly $140 billion dollars at today's price. We doubt we are the only ones keeping track of all this gold (most of it almost certainly 'safe and sound' about 150 feet deep under the infamous LIberty 33 location). We also doubt we are the only ones curious about its future, which we see as have five distinct possible outcomes: i) nothing; ii) it is currently being shipped quietly from The New York Fed to Italy for "general corporate purposes); iii) it has already been shipped and is currently being loaded up in Silvio's private jet; iv) the G-20 is already preparing to launch a formal demand that in order to remain in the Eurozone and to find the EFSF, which will be used to buy Italian bonds, Italy will have to do its patriotic duty and remit it to the ECB, an extortion attempt which was tried with Germany last week and which failed spectacularly; or v) it is being lent out to other countries who have long since sold their gold and continue to pretend they have some hard asset backing to the currencies issued by their own central banks. We hope to get an answer shortly.

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goldencross10's picture

You sure it is just not painted bricks?

redpill's picture

Amazing how much attention is being paid to this inedible traditional barbarous relic.

So very amusing to see that when these ponzi pricks are finally forced to face the music, the real questions start being asked.  How much gold you got?

 

Leopold B. Scotch's picture

I mean, like, really.  Who are we kidding?  Like, its not even backed by Anything.

Indeed, the Shitwinds are a' blowin'

SheepDog-One's picture

Shithawks are circlin....big, dirty shithawks.

redpill's picture

It's like a game of Texas hold 'em, except instead of only 5 cards in the middle, they just keep turning them over in hopes that someone can get a royal flush.  But now that the deck is running out of cards, people curiously want to start seeing each others hands.

In response, so many countries want to talk talk talk talk about why they shouldn't need to turn over their hands, why can't we just split the pot?  But as the remaining cards dwindle, the words mean less and less and less.  Soon it is just noise, an obvious attempt to avoid the inevitable.  STOP JAWING AND FLIP OVER YOUR CARDS, I'M CALLING YOU.  Then things get fun.

eureka's picture

The cards will not be flipped - because US Empire, via NY FED, "holds" most European gold - except it's not there anymore, because US Empire stole it and sold it off long ago, because its strategy is to fuck the entire world with the three satanic weapons of empire:

FIAT, FIAT-DEBT, MILITARY

or - in mafia language:

NON-EXISTING VALUE, NON-EXISTING PRETEND-VALUE, BRUTALITY SOLD AS PROTECTION

If the cards were flipped, these self-evident truths would be revealed, US Empire would crumble - and even the majority of the 99% citizen slaves, don't want that.

US Ivy Leagues spew execs for Wall Street, US Corporation, US corrupt politicians, CIA, Pentagun, HomeLand Security - the new faces of National Socialism.

The game is rigged. Get your revolvers out. It IS the WILD WEST all over - except your up against not a few rotten apples, but an entire satanic system - and whoever draws fastest lives another day. It is each man for himself.

Justice and truth are fairy tales.

redpill's picture

I'll get the revolver out, since you need something to shoot on your way to get your rifle!

Troll Magnet's picture

YOU ALL ARE A BUNCH OF FUCKING MORONS!!!

Gold's not backed by anything?  Are you serious?  LOL!!!  Dumbasses!!!

Gold is backed by GLDs and ETFs, you idiots! 

If you can't get your hands on physical, they'll give you a bunch of certificates!

I mean, who wouldn't want a bunch of certificates? 

In case you morons haven't noticed, it's NOVEMBER and shit's about to get COLD!

And as you all know, you can't burn gold.  But you can burn paper all day and all night to keep your asses WARM!

Jeezus!  Now, let's get back to talking about 9-9-9 plan.  I hear it's like, totally hip right now.  MSM tells me so.

redpill's picture

9 pizzas with 9 toppings for 9 tenth-ounce silver coins!

Troll Magnet's picture

too expensive. i'll pass.

Transformer's picture

You know, I bet that chart up there in the article, is a complete and total fiction.   If you look into the US gold, well, do we have any?  Think the other countries are any different?

nugjuice's picture

I reject your "99% citizen slaves" comment. It's much closer to 95%. There are still intelligent people left in this country, we just unfortunately don't have the political or financial might to do much about it. You can blame this on our two-party joke of an election system which consistently lets us choose between 'awful' and 'worse.'

Say what you want about our politicians, but we as a people are pretty pissed off.

Manthong's picture

Something's not right here..

$61 Billion in gold ain’t squat compared to €1900 Billion in debt.

Unless that gold is worth a whole lot more than $61 Billion..

http://nationaldebtclocks.com/italy.htm

 

Al Gorerhythm's picture

The something not right there is in the header of the WGCs table. If you believe that fiat currencies are debt instruments, a promise to settle (as opposed to pay, they got paid in paper) then the percentage down the list should be 100% (if you don't want to lose your sovereignty). The reserve of only resort is gold. It has been leveraged by sovereign promisary paper and will be reformulated by demand for settlement.

 Germany, Italy or any other country will never let go of their only settlement device. It will be gold or war that settles this. There are no other alternatives that present themselves that I can think of.

DollarDive's picture

Exactly Watson......

 

The gold is worth a lot more than what it's on the books for   :)

zhandax's picture

At the current $1780/oz, 2451 tonnes of gold is worth around $140 billion.  Still a piss in the ocean compared to that much debt.

boiltherich's picture

You are all wrong, Italian gold reserves are worth in US dollars 116.05 billion.

There are 2,451.8 tonnes, that is a metric ton at 2,200 pounds to the ton = 5,393,960 pounds of gold @12 troy ounces per pound = 64,727,520 ounces @ $1,793 per ounce two minutes ago = $116,056,443,360

Anytime you see the word TON spelled TONNE it is a metric ton at 2200 pounds.  Please keep that in mind, and do not forget that there are 12 troy ounces in a pound, save you a lot of embarrassment some day.

 

 

saulysw's picture

Ton, tonne. It doesn't really matter, they are in the same order of magnitude. 

boiltherich's picture

We are talking about a material that is practically priced by the atom.  Not only does that 200 pounds per ton matter it matters even more that there are 12 troy ounces in a pound rather than the 16 most of you think are in a pound where gold is concerned, like you would have for hamburger or your own body.  Look at how far off TD's original calculation was, nearly forty BILLION dollars.  That is not the same order of magnitude, and his correction was little better, still off by 24 billion dollars. 

It makes me question the knowledge here of all the die hard gold bugs that cannot even make such a simple math calculation.  It would mean to me that many or most here are operating on false assumptions and do not even care.  That is mob mentality not the deliberate consideration we will need to get through what is about to happen to all of us. 

It DOESN'T MATTER?  Fine, then sell me 100 pounds of gold at spot (just make sure you count out 16 coins per pound).  In fact you sell me those 1,600 one ounce coins and I will pay you 10% over spot.  Then we will see if it matters to you because I will have just stolen 15% of your gold, ethically speaking, by taking advantage of your ignorance. 

Bollixed's picture

"There are 2,451.8 tonnes, that is a metric ton at 2,200 pounds to the ton = 5,393,960 pounds of gold @12 troy ounces per pound = 64,727,520 ounces @ $1,793 per ounce two minutes ago = $116,056,443,360"

Really?

There are 32,150 troy ounces in 1 metric tonne (1,000 kilos) so 2451.8 tonnes = 78,825,370 troy ounces @ $1793 per ounce = $141,333,888,410.00

Don't they teach math in school these days?

boiltherich's picture

OK smart ass, setting aside conversions and math from metric tonnes to avoirdupois to US short tons or troy ounces, and multiplying by the spot price of the moment in dollars, here is what the Banca D'Italia says Italian gold reserves are worth and they ought to know since they hold Italy's gold:

The increase in the value of gold (79 million ounces or 2,452 tons) was entirely due to the rise in the metal’s price.

 For what it is worth that is the statement made by the central bank of Italy on it's total gold holding as of 12/31/2010. 

?NOW, multiply that by the US dollar spot price and we have no more arguments. 

?http://www.bancaditalia.it/pubblicazioni/relann/rel10/rel10en/en_rel_2010.pdf

?79,000,000 X 1793 per ounce = $141,647,000,000.  OK?  We good? 

?See page 232.

?

 

 

 

 

Stares straight ahead's picture

That's why I use avagadro's number and always do my conversions in moles. 

Lord Blankcheck's picture

a troy oz is 31.1 grams,which is(454/31.1)= 14.6 toz/lb

 

Manthong's picture

TD's caught the math error..  : ) 

Settlement device... yes..

I vote for war. That way the victor gets the gold AND the women. 

vato poco's picture

War? Excellent! I call dibs on 10,000 oz. and Monica Bellucci.

ViewfromUndertheBridge's picture

Central Banks list their gold holdings as "gold and gold receivables" as if the leased gold is the same as the physical...US Treasury sure does.

Is it a coincidence that gold spiked around the time Venezuala took delivery?

jeff montanye's picture

no.  and remember the first one to default/demand bullion back/haircut sovereign debt does best.  second one to do so does next best ....

Ponzi Unit's picture

Yes, there is always the chance that gold is worth more. Like today, for example, when it looks like the scales are falling from a few people's eyes: $1798 spot.

Notice the sudden respectability of the quaint tradition? No, it's not money, that is unless you want to acept my gold as collateral, and then it's nein!

Moving south, the German response is followed quickly by Va fa un culo!

topcallingtroll's picture

I am not a gold bug, but I do have to admit actions speak louder than words.

Germany just informed the world that gold is the ultimate asset.

SheepDog-One's picture

Notice how suddenly theyre not talking about free leveraged up money out of thin air? Uh oh.

Al Gorerhythm's picture

You will come to the dark side, Luke. Your "Come to Jesus" moment will arrive sooner rather than later. Some "Get It" by reasoning, others have to be clubbed into submission. What's it to be?

ViewfromUndertheBridge's picture

Loved that last top call...keep them coming until about $1,965 pls

SeverinSlade's picture

Price action in PMs today in response to EU demanding that Germany use its gold reserves to back EFSF?  Perhaps gold is now once again being seen for what it really is?  Real money and the only safe haven in existence?

redpill's picture

I think once the word "Italy" became the big headline today, a big portion of the market took a small squidgy shit in their pants and realized this could all get very ugly.  In a world where giant amorphous leveraged super funds with unclear guarantees are heralded as the savior of modern economies, it is suddenly very comforting to own something real that does not rely on any promises from politicians.

SeverinSlade's picture

Agreed.

Italy is going to make Greece look like a picnic just like 2011/2012 is going to make 2008 look like a cake walk.

ViewfromUndertheBridge's picture

or those MF Global accounts were shorts and front run.

Oct 31 was just before the beat down to $1,681 so a lot of them might have been like that MF G unfortunate quoted by BBerg with the 8,000GC who stood to "lose a lot of money"...not if he was long.

Long-John-Silver's picture

Tungsten is short as sovereigns demand physical shipments. Gold Bricking is the only other option.

Jonas Parker's picture

No, it's 100% pure gold-plated titanium!

trav7777's picture

one is left to question how many paper lease claims are on those golds.  Or when leased was it paper sold or physical sold...

Bicycle Repairman's picture

If Italy's gold is being held at 33 Liberty St., there is no reason to fight.  Just change the name tags on the pallets. Done.

Long-John-Silver's picture

No one would dare melt it. The melting point of Tungsten is higher than Gold.

Confuchius's picture

24k Au melt = (Centigrade) 1063.

Tungsten    =     3680 Centigrade (or 6656 Fahrenheit)

mvsjcl's picture

Unless one moves the smelting operations to the vicinity of Ground Zero, where melting points--indeed, the laws of physics themselves!--are meaningless and totally arbitrary, completely at the whims of governmental bodies and quasi-scientific boards.

trav7777's picture

no laws of physics were violated at ground zero, nor were they proposed to have