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Ray Dalio On Whether The Current "Hopeless, Mob-Rule Deleveraging " Can Lead To The Ascent Of Another "Hitler"

Tyler Durden's picture


Yesterday we presented the complete must watch Ray Dalio interview and transcript from his Charlie Rose appearance in which he explained how, in his increasingly skeptical view, we are now "out of ammunition" as there are "no more tools in the toolkit." Today, he layers on top of this rather bleak macroeconomic perspective some very disturbing observations, specifically, what the realization of the dead end situation facing monetary and discal authorities means when confronted with a violent (metaphorically) deleveraging, and a violent (quite literal) social mood. In an FT op-ed he writes; "We are in the midst of a deleveraging, we are nearly out of ammunition and we are at each other’s throats. Being in a deleveraging and nearly out of ammunition is a very difficult position to be in. But, being at each other’s throats is our biggest problem." Needless to say this won't be the first time we have found ourselves in such a predicament: one very vivid example from history beckons: "Frustrations increase, the established ways of doing things come under attack and frustrations over the ineffectiveness of government creates the perceived need for someone to gain control of the mess. Plato spoke of this dynamic. It was the reason Hitler was elected in 1933."

Does Dalio predict the advent of another "Hitler" - hardly... But the risks are there, especially since none of the banks have learned any lessons from the past, and no preventative measures have been taken to avoid a repeat of 2008, only this time the entire population is already on edge: "Mobs are at the doors of bankers and others in the financial system, screaming to politicians to put these people in jail while the vote-seeking politicians are fanning the flames rather than reminding people that the legal system is the way these people should be judged. Since banks are levered about 15 to 1, it doesn’t take much of a debt problem to cause them solvency problems, and since in deleveragings debt problems are big, there is significant risk banks will run out of equity again and the fury against them will intensify. For these reasons risks to the global banking system are much greater than normal."

This lucid explanation of reality from the biggest hedge fund manager in the world explains precisely why the status-quo coopted media continues to retrench itself in lies and propaganda: in attempting to avoid panic and the realization that the entire system is now hollow, the lies will literally continue until morale improves. Only this time it won't, because the people (at least those that wish to be), can and will be far more educated than ever before in history. And the fear that reality (and associated discontent) will spread like wildfire, is why the status quo continues to retrench day after day, terrified of what happens if it loses control over that last bastion of "stability" - the stock market, which explains the relentless drive against logic and reason, ever higher, to mask the complete collapse of reality's facade just behind the surface.

Unfortunately this inability to deal with the interplay of Dalio's three core forces: deleveraging - social frustrations - and a policy cul-de-sac, is precisely why we are and have been so pessimistic on the final resolution to the prevalent problems occupying modern society.

We wish we could share Dalio's optimism...

If we calm down and work together to properly manage this difficult situation – for example, if we can properly distribute both the austerity and the increased efforts that are required to manage our debt burdens – we can get through this deleveraging without great pain. If we can’t, we may experience an economic, social and political collapse.

...but unfortunately we can't. Only when it is far too late will the status quo finally deem it worthwhile to engage with the "99%" on an equal and equitable footing. By then, however, not even the Dow at 36,000 will give anyone any more illusions that things are even remotely "normal."

But then again, a violent end, and subsequent reset, is nothing new in history: every declining civilization has gone through the same terminal death rattle, only to result in a systematic rebirth. This time around it won't be any different.

From Ray Dalio, in the Financial Times:

Risk on the rise as political leaders give in to mob rule

We are in the midst of a deleveraging, we are nearly out of ammunition and we are at each other’s throats. Being in a deleveraging and nearly out of ammunition is a very difficult position to be in. But, being at each other’s throats is our biggest problem.

Our character and our political and social systems are now being tested in ways that have typically been tested in past deleveragings. In deleveragings bad economic conditions typically lead to emotional reactions, social and political fragmentation, poor decision-making and increased conflict. When this occurs in democracies, the checks and balance system, which is intended to yield the best decisions for the whole, can stand in the way of thoughtful leadership and lead to ineffective “mob” rule. This dynamic can lead to a self-reinforcing downward spiral.

Frustrations increase, the established ways of doing things come under attack and frustrations over the ineffectiveness of government creates the perceived need for someone to gain control of the mess. Plato spoke of this dynamic. It was the reason Hitler was elected in 1933.

In our opinion these types of risks are now emerging and should be taken into consideration when trying to figure out what may lie ahead. Rather than trying to resolve disagreements through thoughtful discourse, people are now trying to grab power to beat and suppress their opponents. Tensions between the rich and the poor, capitalists and socialists, those in and out of power and different factions in each group are now intensifying in a manner that is classic in deleveragings. Politicians who are fighting for power in a political year are fanning the flames and are increasingly willing to do risky things (like shutting down the government) in pursuit of their missions and popular support.

This growing populism will have important implications for monetary, fiscal and trade policies and will significantly increase risks of a markets downturn and a global depression.

Regarding monetary policy, the mob is at the gates of the Federal Reserve and wants to grab control while those on the inside are in disagreement about what should be done. Fed chairman Ben Bernanke and those who helped him save the country from depression are now under siege. These challenges are being faced in different forms by most central banks at the same time as they are nearly out of ammunition – i.e., their capacities to ease are very limited because they cannot stimulate private credit creation and because they cannot get money in the hands of people who will spend it. For these reasons there is greater risk that central banks cannot save us as they have always saved us in the past.

The battle between the left that wants to tax the rich more and the right that wants to cut entitlement spending is at a fierce stalemate that is likely to intensify in more scary ways. As a result, fiscal policy is unlikely to be supportive to economic growth.

With high unemployment and growing anger, the “mob” is blaming the foreigners who “took their jobs,” especially the Chinese who they say are “manipulating” their currency to “compete unfairly”. And since politicians want popular support, they are navigating this issue to gain political benefit (e.g., to put the US President in the position of having to choose between the political suicide of vetoing Senator Charles Schumer’s currency bill and clashing with China) rather than to approach this difficult issue calmly and analytically. Trade flows and capital flows are increasingly being looked at by all sides as possible weapons in an economic war. As a result, the risks of bad surprises in trade and capital flows are heightened.

Mobs are at the doors of bankers and others in the financial system, screaming to politicians to put these people in jail while the vote-seeking politicians are fanning the flames rather than reminding people that the legal system is the way these people should be judged. Since banks are levered about 15 to 1, it doesn’t take much of a debt problem to cause them solvency problems, and since in deleveragings debt problems are big, there is significant risk banks will run out of equity again and the fury against them will intensify. For these reasons risks to the global banking system are much greater than normal.

While we hope that most people and their leaders will approach these difficult challenges calmly and collectively, we would not be meeting our fiduciary responsibilities if we bet on this happening without clear evidence of it. We are not alone in having and expressing our concerns in what has come to be known as “risk-on” and “risk-off” market movements.

If we calm down and work together to properly manage this difficult situation – for example, if we can properly distribute both the austerity and the increased efforts that are required to manage our debt burdens – we can get through this deleveraging without great pain. If we can’t, we may experience an economic, social and political collapse.

Ray Dalio is founder of Bridgewater Associates


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Mon, 10/24/2011 - 20:20 | 1806520 Robot Traders M...
Robot Traders Mom Mom's picture

Or worse it could lead to another Robot Trader.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 20:32 | 1806550 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

or leo.........

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 20:43 | 1806583 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

"eat your peas" beyotch!

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 20:46 | 1806591 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

i had almost forgotten about chinese solar stocks...

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:15 | 1806683 anynonmous
anynonmous's picture

f  all of the above emeffers

Robot and Leo were here before any of you could effing spell Zero Hedge

F right OFF - I hear Henry is looking for shallow clueless readers

ZH was a much better place without you scum


Project Mayhem

MN Nice

Cheeky Bastard

oh those were the days


F off emeffer nouveau ZHers

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:34 | 1806762 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

sometimes I too will break out my kneepads

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:36 | 1806770 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

excuse me sir, but i was here from about the beginning myself, but of course i did not use hpd then. i was anonymous when they allowed anonymous posting on zerohedge blogspot before td changed over to this granted i took a while to join and for the most part during several months, i just read around here but one day i decided to join the foray....... whatever though. you believe what you want. i don't care...

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:55 | 1806802 anynonmous
anynonmous's picture

now granted i took a while to join

a while??? what are you an isotope who who speaks in terms of a half life? Robot has his critics and a few (used to be more) fans, but the effer isn`t even here and you dogs pile on  -and Leo was cut off at the knees (self inflicted, granted) but he put his real name out there, how about you Clint?   This is Fight Club not some backwoods trailer trash  community of basement dwelling losers.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:18 | 1806854 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

anon... No one died and left you in charge... regardless of what Robo and Reggie told you.

If you want to be a board monitor why not send an email to Tyler?

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:21 | 1806860 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Hopeless, bankster-rule hyper leveraging on toxic assets can lead to the ascent of another Hitler after market forces upon deleveraging reality.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 00:55 | 1807148 eureka
eureka's picture


Tue, 10/25/2011 - 01:38 | 1807200 mcguire
mcguire's picture

yes... WHY NO MENTION AT ZH ABOUT THE VATICAN TODAY???  i thought this was huge, tremendous news...


The Vatican rules over approximately 2 billion of the world’s 6.1 billion people. The colossal wealth of the Vatican includes enormous investments with the Rothschild’s in Britain, France, and the USA, and with giant oil and weapons corporations like Shell and General Electric. The Vatican solid gold bullion worth billions, is stored with the Rothschild controlled Bank of England and the US Federal Reserve Bank.

The Catholic church is the biggest financial power, wealth accumulator, and property owner in existence. Possessing more material wealth than any bank, corporation, giant trust, or government anywhere on the globe. The Pope, who is the visible ruler of this colossal global wealth is one of the richest men on Earth. While two-thirds of the world earns less than two dollars a day, and one-fifth of the world is under fed or starving to death, the Vatican hordes the world’s wealth, profits from it on the stock market, and at the same time preached about giving.


Tue, 10/25/2011 - 01:52 | 1807210 mcguire
mcguire's picture

here is the link to the full statement put out by the vatican today..


Tue, 10/25/2011 - 02:17 | 1807220 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Audit the vatican. Tax them equally as much as innovative companies that improve the human quality of life.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 02:33 | 1807241 mcguire
Tue, 10/25/2011 - 02:07 | 1807216 i-dog
i-dog's picture


Good question. Maybe for the same reason that famous and very vocal anti-globalist Alex Jones' just posted it in press release style, with no comment! Maybe they're wating for instructions on how to handle it?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 02:41 | 1807251 mcguire
mcguire's picture

yeah, the press release has NWO all over it.. i was also surprised by AJ "relative silence" on the issue.. 

"In a world on its way to rapid globalization, the reference to a world Authority becomes the only horizon compatible with the new realities of our time and the needs of humankind. However, it should not be forgotten that this development, given wounded human nature, will not come about without anguish and suffering."

yikes!  notice how they capitalize Authority..

"The Pope is of so great dignity, and so exalted that he is not a mere man, but as it were God. and the vicar of God." -Ferraris Ecclesiastical dictionary 

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 05:08 | 1807339 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Alex Jones is a gatekeeper for the Vatican through the "religious" right. Most of his regular guests have very strong links to the Vatican agenda (eg. Paul Craig Roberts, Steve Piecznik, Joel Skousen, Larry Pratt, Ted Anderson). AJ's sister attends a Jesuit university and AJ has given talks there. Sadly, he is not what he seems....

With this action today, he has effectively blown his cover. I'm going to be very interested in seeing how each of the so-called "alternative" media handles this story. :)

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 06:25 | 1807373 Crime of the Century
Crime of the Century's picture

Alex Jones is a gatekeeper for the Vatican through the "religious" right. Most of his regular guests have very strong links to the Vatican agenda (eg. Paul Craig Roberts, Steve Piecznik, Joel Skousen, Larry Pratt, Ted Anderson).

That just may be the most off-the-wall statement I have read on ZH in ages. Reread your above sentence for comprehension, and identify the exhibited cognative dissonance. Most of his "regular guests" are complete unknowns to the "religious" right, whoever that is in the fever swamp of your mind. Jones panders to far left end of the libertarian spectrum.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 07:21 | 1807411 i-dog
i-dog's picture

LOL! I'm basing my opinion on research ... you're basing your opinion on popular meme (or wishful thinking). Whatever.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 06:24 | 1807372 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Whenever I see the latest pope, I get this mental soundtrack:

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 06:48 | 1807394 BigJim
BigJim's picture

And, on the same theme...

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 02:26 | 1807235 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

"The Vatican rules over approximately 2 billion of the world’s 6.1 billion people."

Rules?  They're advisors, not rulers, to the majority of the 2 billion.  And many take the advice with a grain of reality.

And as far as having their gold stored at the reserve banks...hope they kept a detailed receipt.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 02:47 | 1807255 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

2000 years of ponzinomics. That's heck a lot of time for compounded interest and prime real estate valuation. And they don't even pay tax!


Best brainwashing ever invented and all they sell is some heaven concept that you get AFTER death for 10%  of your income.


Theocracy maybe dead, but their wealth is still around.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:40 | 1806902 anynonmous
anynonmous's picture

Snotely says

anon... No one died and left you in charge.


WTF  - I expressed an opinion about a bunch of wimps taking gratuitous shots. Would you suggest it`s better to join the mob and pile on?  Ahh yes nothing like status quo -- let me check my closet to see if I have a brown shirt. 

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 23:02 | 1806965 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Arguing with a narcissist (right wing, Ayn Rand follower) is like telling a dog that it is wrong to lick his balls in public.  The dog will look at you while you are talking and seem to be listening, but the ball licking will eventually continue.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 02:19 | 1807223 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

Ayan Rand lived off of social security. She is a socialist acting like a capitalist just like wall st.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 04:13 | 1807316 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Anynonmous  -  i like your style. Defend the defencless. Defend Leo while admitting he "cut himself off at the knees". Defend Robot again knowing he was a losing trading pattern and only profiited in hindsight like he said he just had. You're like the socialist of the blogging boards, always looking out for the little guy (pea-brained losers)

Agreed they're not "here to defend themselves" much like Hitler, Stalin and Bernie Madoff. That's because the losers wimped off not because we left here are wimps. Don't check for a brown shirt, we can all see you're carrying the crusade for the losers (tossers) of history with your chest bare like 'Macho Man of the Also-Rans'

Love you kicking off firing blanks into your own foot.. that's the type of style we miss about Leo and you're a worthy calamity clown of a replacement   

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:20 | 1806858 erg
erg's picture

Years before I ever arrived at ZH I posted under my full name. Why should I hide from obvious truths? I was proud to attach my name. I was naive.

You said it yourself, it's a fight club. If someone is being constantly cut-off at the knees, why would they return? Is it altruism or masochism?

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 23:44 | 1807060 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

I miss your garbled eastern european style blathering. Go back to that persona. If I have you confused with someone else, it's cause I'm a dreaded newbie. Wow, you were here from the start, BFD. How's your ZH stock doing? No vested interest? Thought so.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 01:08 | 1807167 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

What we need is Compassionate Fascism.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:15 | 1806843 I am a Man I am...
I am a Man I am Forty's picture

length of time on the board doesn't mean jack shit, if Cheeky Bastard didn't show up until today his posts would still be great, it annoys the shit out of me when people actually think that the longer you've been on ZH it makes you some sort of fucking elder or something...LMFAO


Project Mayhem had great stuff too

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:28 | 1806875 anynonmous
anynonmous's picture

I am a Man I am... (let me guess) .... a mouse

a bunch of pussys taking cheapshots at deadmen or those who aren`t  here to respond, that`s the issue

(and I think it`s Clint who was all defensive about the tenure thing)


and no I am not modeerator nor do I presume to be, but of course it`s a lot more fun to kick `em when they`re down and god forbid someone challenge that

as I said...  losers


Mon, 10/24/2011 - 23:03 | 1806915 akak
akak's picture

I hope leo is dying the prolonged and agonizing death that a ragingly narcissistic, sociopathic piece of shit such as him fully deserves.  He was and is as fully complicit, and therefore fully as guilty, of partaking in, enabling and apologizing for the massive, systemic fraud and corruption of the status-quo political, financial and monetary paradigm as those in power in Washington and Wall Street.  His many craven, cowardly, blinkered pro-Establishment rants attested to that fact, and I'll be damned if I am going to feign sympathy for such an arrogant and malicious bastard as leo merely because he is suffering from a disease (who here does NOT have their own crosses to bear in life, or suffer from medical conditions?  However, we are not constantly reminded of that from any other contributor or poster in the most shamelessly self-absorbed manner possible, as we were from leo).  His malady in no way exonerates him from his many mortal sins, and as far as I'm concerned, his death will never come soon enough.  leo was nothing but a sellout, a shill, a Quisling, a collaborator and a coward, and worse than that, he continually admonished the rest of us to sell out, give up and be the same.  He was not merely beneath contempt, he was beyond contempt, and I will piss on his grave with pleasure.

Fuck leo, and anyone who would stand up for such a criminal and apologist for evil.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 02:34 | 1807242 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture



Wow!  That's some really intense hatred.  In fact, it's totally psychotic.  

Libertarians 2012: The Party for whacked-out, hateful, spiteful, bitter, paranoid, psychotic freaks. 


Tue, 10/25/2011 - 04:25 | 1807322 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Libertarians leave others well alone ...its the socialists, fascists and monopolists (ie. parasites) that can't keep their filthy stinky fingers out of other peoples pockets you doing with rationalising thieving pussface?

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:16 | 1806846 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Yes, those were the days. Except I can't remember you or anything I've ever learned from any of your comments. Ironic, huh?

And robot turned into a troll and Leo buried himself in Greek bonds and high-beta solar stocks while the rest of us canned spam in the basement crowd got 'smoked' owning physical gold and silver - or not.

Seriously, what value does your comment add?

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:23 | 1806864 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

traderjoe... "Leo buried himself in Greek bonds and high-beta solar stocks"

You left out the part where 'some nice guys took me (Leo) to lunch and explained what a great investment awaits in land that the nice guys developed in Argentina...'

I took him to the wood shed for that one... and would do it again.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:32 | 1806883 anynonmous
anynonmous's picture

trader nice to see you again, remind me...

I don` t think I was responding to you but since you took the time; who made you the almighty  monitor?


robot turned troll you say- why because you disagree with him


Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:37 | 1806899 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Pot calling kettle black?


Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:42 | 1806908 anynonmous
anynonmous's picture

great response

ignore --  why not just change your avatar to a bright yellow A

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:50 | 1806932 akak
akak's picture

Did you swallow a whole bottle of Viagra today?

I ask because you appear to be a truly giant dick.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 07:49 | 1807489 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

Did you swallow a whole bottle of Viagra today?

I ask because you appear to be a truly giant dick.


Mon, 10/24/2011 - 23:47 | 1807063 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

Does 'American citizens' evil have anything to do with your bad mood? Go back to that shit, it was brilliant schtick.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 02:17 | 1807221 bookwurm
bookwurm's picture



Mon, 10/24/2011 - 20:41 | 1806574 B9K9
B9K9's picture

I would suggest that Robot citizens are perhaps the greater threat.

I spent a glorious weekend in SF - except for some street people and a few misguided youths, it would be difficult to discern the presence of the OWS crew @ the Embarcadero amidst the carnival barkers and ready consumers all willing to buy, Buy, BUY!

Of course, it's all on borrowed funds, but apparently the citizenry has fully embraced "es, bibe, lude". Aren't they going to be surprised when price controls, rationing, and martial law are imposed so that the central state may able to de/re-value the $USD by about a factor of 10:1.

Actually, the surprise isn't that our modern Hitler hasn't yet appeared fully formed, it's that we've gone this long without any overt need to utilize such a figurehead. Thank our educational system, the MSM and of course TV for the continued passive & willing acceptance of the chains so that today's "solutions" don't have to be "messy".

Of course, one can only go so far before the necessary military & police powers are brought to bear. My take, and where I've been placing my chips, is going long on poverty. The People must be impoverished not only in the short-term to deal with defaulting the debt via (hyper)inflation, but also to condition them for a post-Hubbert world.

As I looked out over the City one evening, I could only help but think that it's been an awesome ride. Pity it has to end.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:03 | 1806655 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

And thus, my generation gets to eat shit. And people wonder why I'm so nihilistic. The idiots my age don't even realize the nice big brown piece of ass cake they're about to get stuffed in their mouths.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:14 | 1806688 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Make me eat cake, bitchez.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:31 | 1806751 Fibz
Fibz's picture

But it's a glorious sight to see ignorance punished.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:29 | 1806878 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

"But it's a glorious sight to see ignorance punished."

ah...yes... and who put it better than this?...

In all life one should comfort the afflicted, but verily, also, one should afflict the comfortable, and especially when they are comfortably, contentedly, even happily wrong.
John Kenneth Galbraith

Read more:


Mon, 10/24/2011 - 23:52 | 1807070 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

Yeah, they're not on ZH, ignorant fucks. Then there's, - who else lays out the case of the 99.99% so clearly? Not many. That has something to do with the ignorance, eh? How many of the intelligent people that you know are awake? Ignorance about money is our problem, and few people understand it well enough to explain it clearly to another person. A more accurate statement is that trust is being punished.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:32 | 1806756 Incubus
Incubus's picture

Who cares if they knew it, or not. 

They're all docile and dependent on the system, anyway.   What would they do if they knew it?  Write out very strongly worded comments on facebook? 

Ignorance is not an excuse--and they'll deserve what they have coming to them.  When it comes down to it, the world isn't for pusses.  Either you learn how to push back, or you better learn to like the taste of the "ass cake," as you call it.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 00:37 | 1807121 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

Who cares? Are you fucking stupid?

You have given me shit before for condemning idiots and saying that I'm better than everyone else. Well, guess what? If people are NOT educated and intelligent, DEMOCRACY DOES NOT WORK.

When will you fucking morons understand this simple concept?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 01:31 | 1807195 Incubus
Incubus's picture

Well, guess what? If people are NOT educated and intelligent, DEMOCRACY DOES NOT WORK.


I know that. Look: in my "ideal" society, everyone would have access to information and opportunity to better themselves through any informational/educational means--but let's be realistic here: the system cannot work as-is because people are too heavily conditioned with their social roleplay.

There's no "bettering" the world because to do that, well--there's too many stupid people in power and NOT in power. Yeah, sure: I'd like to imagine a great society where everything worked out properly, but we're dealing with people, and what people love is familiarity--not improvement.

And yeah, now that you mention it, I remember that tirade way back when: and I'll still give you shit for saying it. I'm no better than anyone else, neither are you. Stupidity is not some terminal disease: people can be forced to improve--but that's the have force them to do it. It's a matter of deprogramming them from their silly little subjective realities they hold to be ultimate truth and showing them that their roleplay is just that.

Like I said: Who cares.

You try to force people to improve, and you're likely to end up regretting it, because there's too many of them drinking the fucking kool-aid.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 02:35 | 1807245 FrankDrakman
FrankDrakman's picture

I noted that in Steve Jobs' new biography, he is quoted as saying:

"Until the teachers' unions are broken, education reform in America is impossible". (approx. - I don't have the exact quotation in front of me).

Certainly true here in Ontario. All the teachers' unions care about is job security, more benefits, higher wages, and protection from facing the consequences of NOT ACTUALLY TEACHING THE KIDS ANYTHING. AS far as their students are concerned? F*** 'em.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 03:30 | 1807287 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

If people are NOT educated and intelligent, DEMOCRACY DOES NOT WORK.

When will you fucking morons understand this simple concept?


Admittance will come with reality.

It is funny how US citizens love to build strawsmen.

What is the US vote turnout rate? Any data on that? Not the rescaled one that US citizens give to claim that their regime is majority rule.

Any data showing that the uneducated and dumb vote numbers overwhelm the educated and intelligent vote?

All data show that the current world order, the US world order, is not the result of dumb, uneducated people but the result of intelligent, educated people.

Alas, self indiction being what it is in US citizenism, US citizens will keep deny that simple evidence.

It is funny because actually who enables US citizens in their errings? US citizens have boundaries issues and cant control themselves. They should be deeply grateful to all the dumb, all the uneducated in the world because without them, the prevailing culture of death in US citizens would have hurt US citizens much more violently.

US citizens should stop denying what is obvious by now: they are extorters of the weak and farmers of the poor. Extortion and farming is not a self sustaining way of life. It requires weak and poor to go on.

Contempt is also part of the US citizens eternal nature.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 06:34 | 1807377 BigJim
BigJim's picture

How's Tibet these days, liberator?

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:38 | 1806772 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

i used to try and talk to them about it, but they just don't see it .....

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:35 | 1806894 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Once again I call on John Kenneth Gailbraith...

"Faced with the choice of changing one's mind and proving there is no need to do so, most people get busy on the proof'

Let those faced with eating ass instead eat their IPads ... yeah, the IPads they purchased with non recourse 'college tuition loans'.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:51 | 1806939 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

The problem is that their ignore-ance will be your undoing as well. See you in custody.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 23:18 | 1807010 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

"See you in custody."

Not in America, you won't.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:26 | 1806870 The_Nihilist
The_Nihilist's picture

I'm right there with you. Think about it though, what is scarier than the status quo? Something different. Everyone is scared as shit and all they know is to keep going the way they've been going.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:34 | 1806893 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

This Ray guy is just talking his book. He's a .01%'er and no way he's going to be able to convert his fiat before the collapse comes. He is the system and he just wants the slaves to suck it up.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 00:39 | 1807124 Pete15
Pete15's picture

To be fair he owns gold and believes hyperinflation is on its way like most here 

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 00:25 | 1807114 Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

FAW, your back.  Yous should probably pick up where you left off and tell us how China is going to whip our asses every conceivable economci, social and miltary way.  That is if Annon allows such fight club tactics..

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 00:48 | 1807137 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

Please provide one, JUST one, link to where I state that China will whip America's ass in every way.


Tue, 10/25/2011 - 02:31 | 1807239 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

And thus, my generation gets to eat shit.


That's what student loans are all about. Privatization of education sector while educrats still live under Fannie and Freddie like government funded non-profit status with bloated salaries. Basically cutting off free education needed to get real jobs, and charging it to citizens without lowering any taxes on their behalf.


Politicians covering up their mistakes by kicking the can of debt to the next generation.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 11:19 | 1808339 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

I'm more worried about oil, honestly. When you think about student loans, you immediately think in terms of dollars . . . but a dollar is nothing more than a ticket for a real resource, such as gold, oil, food, or pussy.

The real problem is, my generation sees the dollar as the ends, whereas it's just a paper ticket, a means which is becoming more diluted with each passing day. When I was but a young lad, I remember a time when oil was $1 a gallon. This was within my lifetime . . . now it costs $13 to fill up my bike, when it should cost $3.

In 50 years, I won't be able to ride my motorcycle, unless I kill off a shitload of useless eaters before then. I'm willing to sacrifice a lot of human blood so I can continue to feel my baby roar between my legs . . . when people ask me why I'm going to med school, they are always awestruck when I look them in the eye and say with sincerity that I will cure cancer. Little do they know, they are the cancer cells I seek to physically liquidate . . .

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 05:33 | 1807321 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



And thus, my generation gets to eat shit.

Most of your dipshit generation doesn't deserve to live. Fortunately many of them will be killed off, die off, whatever.

One nice thing about America's coming collapse, it'll wipe out many of those useless resource-consuming brain-dead bleating sheeple.

This planet needs a few billion to just fucking die off.  That's one view I share with the 1%.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 06:51 | 1807397 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Feel free to lead by example.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 09:35 | 1807789 pods
pods's picture

Yay, another us versus them, old vs young style!


Tue, 10/25/2011 - 11:10 | 1808310 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

The majority of people in general don't deserve to live. It's not just my generation. It's your generation, too.

Yet, your generation got to enjoy classic American muscle cars, (STD) free love, Kennedy, real music . . .

Look what I get. Government owns the American car companies. Sluts with rotting vaginas. Obama. Solda Boy. The end of oil.

And you deign to put yourself up on a pedastal? You think you have the right to complain about useless eaters? What a self important tool. Dumbass walking corpse.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:23 | 1806720 anonnn
anonnn's picture

American leaders are smarter than Hitler!. FEMA camps readied already in the 1980s...looking way ahead.

And the White Rose defense disallowed in the justice system.

See e.g.,

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:46 | 1806787 Carlyle Groupie
Carlyle Groupie's picture

"Pity it has to end"

Is the ghost of Jim Jones paying a visit to the ZH all you can eat gloom buffet??

And still;

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:50 | 1806789 Incubus
Incubus's picture

Awesome ride?  End?


You fool: we're only about to live.  Are you afraid of life so much?   Want me to give you another fucking ikea magazine while you work on your five year plan, you bitch?!  Sounds to me like you like the domesticated life a bit too much. 


We only have to "face" poverty because the collective is too goddamned slow to skip the foreplay and just get the damned heads rolling.  So suffer for a few decades until a generation with some balls can be forged.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 00:55 | 1807147 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

... imagine life without a car, dumbass.

Or plastic.

Or food. Fuck you're dumb.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 01:16 | 1807177 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

There's all sorts of fat(ass) people around that desperately need eating. Long Pig. YUM!

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 02:47 | 1807199 Incubus
Incubus's picture

Who gives a fuck about a car, or plastic.  What the fuck you want is convenience.  If I didn't have those things, I wouldn't bitch.  I am fully prepared to live a less "convenient" life. If you'd care to notice (and I doubt you do) I make a constant reference to "forging" in my comments.   I do feel that's what we need at this point in "civilization":  our technological advancements have outpaced our "spiritual" and "moral" advances.  What we need is development from within before we take a shot at "advanced" civilization once more. 

You're not going to find any sort of personal development in a society filled with worthless information saturation.  And that's what it is: information spam.  Rightfully useful information is obscured for the sake of profitable and convenient information.  People are filled with garbage, and the result is that they are garbage caricatures of people.

And food? Are you serious? I think you're just a tad bitter over past quarrels--let go, buddy.

The world "as-is" doesn't interest me because there's no future in it. I am fascinated with "collapse" because with collapse comes an opportunity to rebuild and force people out of their coma--however unlikely the scenario may be.

Like I said:  It's my opinion that effort to "improve" is useless.  I'm just entertaining scenarios of a better world that'll never be, and I occasionally blur the theoretical and realistic in my writing.  I am not a "writer" of "what-is";  most of my "serious" comments are designed to project certain emotions, or ideas, or scenarios that I feel would play a part in influencing peoples in making decisions, or actions.  I could say I really don't care about the outcome, but I do "care," even though I believe it is ultimately futile to attempt to improve society, or people; sociology and politics and writing are hobbies of mine--so think of this as my past-time.  Take it seriously, if you will.  As I said, my comments are designed with some purpose--whether it be excessive use of profanity to desensitize over-conditioned people who think an arrangement of letters that invoke a subjective emotional response is bad, or saying effectively saying "all hope is lost" to spur some humanoid to give a fuck and try, or anything otherwise.

Know this:  I am not so much a misanthrope as I am a disappointed humanist.


Tue, 10/25/2011 - 03:00 | 1807265 JB
JB's picture

"imagine life without a car"

I haven't had a car for three years. It's easier than you think.

"The things you own end up owning you."

It's easier than you think. Let go.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 06:49 | 1807395 w a l k - a w a y
w a l k - a w a y's picture

almost four years for me . . . when I moved to the Philippines in Jan. '08, I came with three suitcases, having given away all my former possessions.


I'm fortunate to have avoided having kids (starve the Matrix), both of my parents are now dead, I doubt I'll ever return to that criminal, war mongering country I used to call home.


“The secret to change is to focus all your energy, not on fighting the old, but on building the new.”  -- Socrates

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:41 | 1806903 GeorgeHayduke
GeorgeHayduke's picture

You forgot to add high fructose corn syrup, food additives, and the most medicated society on the planet to your list of reasons why the modern American is so docile.

I feel for your generation. My nephew is 27 and he's one of the bright ones. When I talk to him about all of this he already knows the score. Thus far his solution is to participate in the system as little as possible. However, like most cancers, it's hard to avoid it forever.

I do hope the younger generations can finally fix this fiasco as the comfortable Boomers are are good at showing up to meeting and businessman breakfasts to talk about what should be done, but they won't sacrifice too much to actually make change (until they see they have more to lose by doing nothing). And yes, I am a Boomer by demographics due to being born in '61, but NOT by choice or ideology. Although Strauss and Howe do indicate that the 1961-1964 cohorts are in their own little group and I agree with that.

Anyway, good luck to you younger guys. I honestly do want you guys to have a better life as I have a 6-year old and want the best for him, my nephew, and all of you.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:42 | 1806910 Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

As I looked out over the City one evening, I could only help but think that it's been an awesome ride. Pity it has to end.

Way too much perma-doomerism in that statement.  Why don't you let me be the godfather to your son?  I can give him that can-do spirit. 

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 00:09 | 1807085 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

ah, Vic. After what you have seen transpire over the last 3-5 years, what makes you so confident that the U.S. will remain the sole superpower of the world, with the strongest military and world's reserve currency in the coming years/decades? China stated as early as 2009 that they wanted a new world monetary system and new reserve currency standard. Putin, future re-elected President of Russia, said only a few months ago that the United States was a 'parasite' on the global economy with far too much dominance and control over global economic outcome.

Yes, the can probably will be kicked much farther than many of us can ever imagine, but with U.S. drawing down from Iraq, leaving Libya, and other military projection in question with the coming elections... what makes you think we can escape coming fate the U.S. must suffer due to profligacy we have undertook the past several decades at the expense of our own prosperity and progress as a nation state? It defies the basic universial laws of both mathematics and physics that we can continue on without any significant pain/setback without a period of depression/deleveraging to return healthy sustainable growth and universal prosperity.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 00:41 | 1807125 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

"Sustainable" and "growth" are antonyms, dumbass.

This is precisely the problem: PEOPLE JUST DON'T FUCKING GET IT.

Brainwashed dumbfucks, Jesus fucking Christ.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 05:49 | 1807361 clymer
clymer's picture

Do you ever shut up?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 11:16 | 1808347 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

Does anything with value ever come out of your brain?

Same answer to your question. No. Useless piece of sand nigger shit.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 20:47 | 1806588 LeonardoFibonacci
LeonardoFibonacci's picture

World Jewry is indeed in danger.  Especially in Europe where Jews will be persecuted and blamed for the financial collapse of many countries.  Alot of conspiracy theories concerning the real reasons Hitler was on mass extermination mode but the main reason was simply to remove the control of financial leadership from european jewry.  The jews did run the show in europe and they were removed by force.  Yes it can & will happen again.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 20:55 | 1806632 nmewn
nmewn's picture

He wasn't real keen on Slav's, Poles or Russians either...if anyone thinks they are safe with a meglomaniac in charge no matter race or religion they better get a clue real damn quick.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:14 | 1806689 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Let alone: Gypsies, homosexuals, Catholics, etc.

- Ned

{Wonderin' how that Sharia Law thingie is going to work out in Libya.  Powers, Clinton, and the other Femz are in a wonderfully confused position.}

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:22 | 1806717 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Wonderin' how that Sharia Law thingie is going to work out in Libya."

And Tunisia & Egypt. Arab Spring...ROTFL!!!

Its like we always said & know...democracy is tyranny of the majority.

The women will suppressed and the wealth will flow to a new crop of nutcases waving Qurans.

Democracy is what they thought they wanted...I wish them a belly full of it.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:44 | 1806781 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"I wish them a belly full of it."

Dang, there's a saying that I heard in Maine when I was a skoshi' piglet about a lot of years ago.  'twere in the tree of the 2nd Maine/20th Maine in the "War of Northern Aggression" ;-)

- Ned

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:11 | 1806838 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Not much we can do about the past...ceptin larn frum it ;-)

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:26 | 1806871 Cheesy Bastard
Cheesy Bastard's picture

I think Hillary Clinton and Janet Reno et al will enjoy practicing sharia law.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:48 | 1806791 Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

Some of my (liberal and conservative) friends are celebrating this Libya thing. While I was opposed to Western intervention from the beginning and couldn't help reminding them of that - my question today was how is that Sharia thing going to work out and hey polygamy is once again legal in Libya. Wonderful! Sometimes I really do think I am crazy or the rest of world is.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:57 | 1806807 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Ark: I'll leave crazy to you and yourz.

I'd say to watch the "unintended consequences" such as the shoulder-fired SAMs, the nerve gas, and, of course, how the Sharia-thing will work out for the local women.

It will be a stretch (imho) for the US "feminists" to have an opinion about their "sisters".

- Ned

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:16 | 1806849 Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

I do have an idea of what "unintended" (or intended) consequences will be. Not nice and especially not nice for women and children. I hope I am wrong ....

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:19 | 1806856 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

you are not wrong, dang.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:09 | 1806832 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I try to avoid the "bandwagons"...I will hopefully always be the one saying...ummm, whats next?

Were these assholes (the monarchs) due for a bullet between the eyes...absolutely.

But "our side" blew appears...with all this MSM claptrap and feel good kumbaya about "democracy" not even thinking about the rights of all the individuals involved at the expense of "the majority".

The rights of the individual will prevail eventually...but more blood is the price of it.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:39 | 1806904 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

The current islamic countries in the world do not respect the individual. islam is not about the individual, it is about submission. Islam is not about freedom it is a death cult.

How long did it take for the democracy seeking freedom fighters in Egypt to start killing Coptic Christians? Less than 6 months. The muslim brotherhood will not tolerate any other religion because the koran forbids it. islam is a death cult.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 03:32 | 1807290 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

US citizenism is not about individuality.

The Libyan rebels are material for US citizens.

US citizenism is fast spreading around the world.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 06:39 | 1807383 writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

Clearly the point of this article is lost on you - HATE SPREADER!


It's so infantile and backward to blame whole religions because you're the stupid ass who voted for a party which lied to you and promised you 'wealth beyond your dreams' with it's Capitalist system - and now you're getting fucked.


As Nelson Muntz would say - HA HA.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:54 | 1806947 Syrin
Syrin's picture

Ask them when Congress apporved our military action in Libya for our Teleprompter Nobel Peace Prize winner

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 06:57 | 1807406 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

If it is true that the infrastructure of Libya has been destroyed, then it will be hard times for 99% of Libya, regardless of ideology.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:17 | 1806701 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

"Terrorists"........ the new Jews.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:27 | 1806735 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

I will be ok. I am blonde.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:35 | 1806763 BandGap
BandGap's picture

You left out Gypsies. Let's knock off the deflectionary blame game.  Just go after the people who did this regardless of race, creed, religion, blood type, favorite cereal, etc. Do not become one of them.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 01:26 | 1807185 CompassionateFascist
CompassionateFascist's picture

Hitler wasn't a megalo. Churchill and his Zionist handlers kept escalating and forcing the war...first the Sept. 1939 backstab, then Norway, then urban area-bombing, then the Balkans. etc...until they got what THEY wanted - a massacre of everyday, non-Zionist European Jews that paved the way for their ZOGstate in Palestine. Postwar, the ZOGsters shifted their ops to America, and that's why we are where we are now.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:01 | 1806649 Andy Lewis
Andy Lewis's picture

Fuck off and die, Nazi filth.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:13 | 1806842 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture

Ya gotta love this ""Mobs are at the doors of bankers and others in the financial system, screaming to politicians to put these people in jail while the vote-seeking politicians are fanning the flames rather than reminding people that the legal system is the way these people should be judged."

If the legal system had been doing their jobs, putting theiving bankers in jail, maybe the 'mobs' would be a bit more mollified?

The 'justice system' in the US is a failed system, putting only those with no recourse to a competent attorney in jail, while letting the big theives run free.

Another Pecora Commission is what the 'mobs' want... not more bs from bankers and hedgy managers.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:44 | 1806913 fxrxexexdxoxmx
fxrxexexdxoxmx's picture

Thank you for mentioning the Pecora Commission. My knowledge about financial fact and history has been increased so many times by the posts such as yours. Thanks ZH.... Off to read ....

Thanks Snidley

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:50 | 1806933 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I am sympathetic to your feelings on bankers. However, in my study of the genesis of our current economic meltdown I am reminded that the governments of the world were first and last causes. Forcing banks to make high risk loans with the goal of everyone owning a home regardless of race or economic status set the stage. Then having Fannie and Freddie act as a handy dumping ground for these toxic assets set up the game of hot potato loans. When Barney Frank and Chris Dodd are hauled in front of a court ( along with their nepotistic appointments) then we can begin the banker trials.

It is interesting that States everywhere tell business what to do then blame them for favor and even try to bail them out. One of a thousandvreasons limited government is so preferable. We are beginning to pay the price of collectivism. It will be ugly and I bet that many of the wrong heads will roll.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 23:12 | 1806999 Snidley Whipsnae
Snidley Whipsnae's picture


I certainly did not intentionally intend to omit politicians from facing the justice department.

To me, there is little difference in the guilt of one that serves Goldman Sucks one day and the US Treasury Dept the next...and the guilt of a pol that takes 'campaign funds' from bankers.

...and, the idea that everyone should own a home is rediculous. You're correct, small gov is best.

As far as 'wrong heads rolling'... It is almost unavoidable.  Read the stats of Stalins purges, or the French Revolution, or the Salem Witch Trials, or the Inquisition, or the Jewish Pograms or any other era you might care to look at... In the fog of war, the fog of revolution, the fog of insurrection, many horrible atrocities will be committed, many old scores will be settled.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 02:22 | 1807229 FreedomGuy
FreedomGuy's picture

I agree. I am NOT for letting negligent bankers and financial houses off the hook. I think they should be investigated more for negligence and fraud. As professional money institutions they should've assigned interns and investigators to backtrack these loans to their source and rated them. They should not have repackaged them as CDO's and resold them multiple times. They should not have accepted liar loans, NINJA'a, NINA's, etc. as part of their fiduciary responsibilities to their depositors and investors. I am for this type of prosecution. Frankly, shareholders and depositors could launch lawsuits but government insures deposits and hides it's cronies from prosecution. It is not an accident that Geithner from Goldman Suchs is the Treasury many before him.

At the end of the day taxpayers were poorer, although we are sheilded by borrowing and most rich guys stayed rich in the face of record losses. That tells you something IS in fact wrong.

The problem of misidentifying the causes is that many of the guilty escape and the wrong "fixes" will be implemented.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 06:42 | 1807387 writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

Governments FORCED banks to lend?


I think you'll find it was BANKERS GREED which FORCED them to lend to people who couldn't pay it back.


Government just didn't stop them - but I seem to recall you were all to high on the boom and yet another promise of 'working capitalism' - before you were reminded of it's contradictions causing it to collapse.


The people who continue to support this system, who refuse to see the inevitablility of Capitalist contradiction and who seek to blame "anyone but the system" - are clearly retarded by the system to become agents of that system.


You're worshiping a false idol (again) - God will not be pleased.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 07:08 | 1807423 BigJim
BigJim's picture

I suggest you research the CRA (Community Reinvestment Act) of 1977 if you don't believe government  forced banks to lend.

But differentiating banks from government is a fool's errand. They're two side of the same oligarchical coin.

This has nothing to do free-market capitalism, where the government is meant to be an impartial enforcer of the rule of law... this is crony capitalism, or corporatism, or even fascism.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:44 | 1806911 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

Actually Plato spoke of a philosopher king never ever wanting to have anything to do with ruling more at captaining the ship of fools. He also made a distinction between ideal forms and the realms of mere opinion; so if we are to reference Plato, let's just say that for him this is another day in the cave dwelling Republic. 

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 23:48 | 1807053 saiybat
saiybat's picture

Plato said that and he also said oligarchy leads to democracy and democracy leads to dictatorship. Aristocracy was his idea of the rule of philosopher kings and the most perfect form of government. He considered every form of government except perpetual aristocracy ultimately degenerative which is true if you can keep the aristos in aristocracy otherwise it decays to oligarchy. The goal of oligarchy is to perpetuate oligarchy not to give rise to a dictator. It's a cycle that has repeated time and time again throughout history.

“Dictatorship naturally arises out of democracy, and the most aggravated form of tyranny and slavery out of the most extreme liberty.” Plato

Plato's Republic is revered by oligarchs who see themselves as aristocrats. To them it's a guide book for a new world order and we'll see just how competent they are.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:52 | 1806941 LeonardoFibonacci
LeonardoFibonacci's picture

"Oh an educated jew, like Karl Marx himself"

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:54 | 1806949 LeonardoFibonacci
LeonardoFibonacci's picture

mind you, this is Spielberg's work & also what is called a HOLOHOAX

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 13:36 | 1809056 LeonardoFibonacci
LeonardoFibonacci's picture

Hitler accepts gold teeth as payment for ES debt.  He has already done so in the past!

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 20:27 | 1806531 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

Rise of another Hitler? Are you f**king joking!!

... Hitler had nothing on the mass murder the U.S. administration (guided by it's Israel masters) has unleashed upon it's own citizen's (9/11) and other countries around the world (countries with oil and those without a Rothschild central bank in place) in recent history.

And the 'love/emotion' some U.S. citizens have shown for obama is utterly sickening. German citizens showed 'love' for Hitler because of fear for of their lives. The dumb-ass' who cry with joy why their hear Obama speak, well, we've reached a new low in humanity...

Hope and f**king change.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 20:27 | 1806541 Fibz
Fibz's picture

It's very plausible.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 20:41 | 1806580 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

  a handsome young man will come forward. he will be smart and witty and have a way about him. he will be a good speaker and will move the crowds. he will offer apparent solutions to problems that cannot be solved.  he will be the man of sin spoken of in the book of Revelations. 

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 20:44 | 1806585 Fibz
Fibz's picture

But it's not Obama.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 20:48 | 1806597 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

i don't think so. its too early yet.  soon........

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:36 | 1806765 westboundnup
westboundnup's picture

Agree.  Look for his appearance shortly after one or more foundation-rocking world events. 

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:38 | 1806773 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

I can't believe you guys are serious.  ZH WTF.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:06 | 1806826 Incubus
Incubus's picture

Shame on you for thinking that ZH "regulars" were any less insane. 

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:58 | 1806957 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Justin Bieber is forming an exploratory committee?

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 02:40 | 1807249 OldPhart
OldPhart's picture

Bieber could be the first female antichrist/president.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 04:01 | 1807313 JB
JB's picture

Lol the 'man of sin' is alive and well. He is the head of the Beast that received the terrible head wound (French revolution, France was the 10th part of the city, Napoleon captured the pope and took him back to Paris in chains), appeared dead (Rome's imperial power was finally, eternally- or so we thought- destroyed), and is now miraculously alive again, through the apostasy of America.

Look at the person who sits atop the pyramid. (Hint: his throne is in the Vatican.)

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:44 | 1806783 High Plains Drifter
High Plains Drifter's picture

you know obama came out of nowhere and became president. it is real easy to do when you control the media and have lots of money. the Bible talks about the people as sheep. Gee I wonder why. After thousands of years nothing has changed has it?  I was reading Psalms this morning. Gee I wonder what King David would do about all of this mess?  Well for one thing, these idiots would not even try it if he were the leader. He would take them out so fast it would make your head swim....He simply did not like evil people. Yeh sure he slipped up that one time with bathsheba but he payed the price for that one when the sword never left his house from then on........and it never did. 

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 00:44 | 1807133 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

It's because of all these newfangled western liberal values, which state that EVERYone should have basic rights and other such nonsense...

Look at the result, now even the worst criminals are portrayed as victims.. dumbass westerners and your democracy, Jesus fucking Christ

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 02:22 | 1807228 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

Tell us more about this man and his imminent appearance.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:33 | 1806888 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

David Duke, or maybe even . . . the Walkin' Dude

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:06 | 1806663 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

haha no, Obama's not of demonic blood.

Only one race is descended from the great red serpent . . .

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:09 | 1806834 john39
john39's picture

i suggest you read up on his mother's hidden ancestry.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:16 | 1806848 Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

No one cares.  It's over w.r.t. mommy. 

You are a sad man passing links on the internet.  Here is something you can dance to:

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:25 | 1806868 john39
john39's picture

Didn't post a link. But that doesn't matter. In the end, the truth comes out. Prepare accordingly.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 22:30 | 1806882 Vic Vinegar
Vic Vinegar's picture

Yeah I get it.  Tom Keene seemed a little too happy today.  Maybe he was fired up over Diedre Bolton's new show.  Who knows? 

Strange days indeed.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 00:41 | 1807127 thefatasswilly
thefatasswilly's picture

You don't understand. You don't realize what the demonic race is.

Hint: it sure as fuck isn't white.

Tue, 10/25/2011 - 02:24 | 1807231 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

Please explain. Do you have a link?

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 20:48 | 1806601 philipat
philipat's picture

Sounds more like Nostradamus.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 20:56 | 1806635 TheMerryPrankster
TheMerryPrankster's picture

Michel Nostradamus did not have a little moustache, I think its either Hitler or Charlie Chaplin.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:01 | 1806648 knukles
knukles's picture

The major myths, proverbs, stories handed down from the past all have in some form tales of a series of pre-histories, turning points characterized by horrific disasters and periods wherein truly evil men have championed.  The Book of Revelations is but one among many... all telling of the same theme.  (ref: Hancock; Fingerprints of the Gods)
Worth a peek for those the least interested in the questionable vibility of traditional advancement of mankind and the contrasting scientific and mythological evidence being employed by modern scientific observers.

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:25 | 1806726 Raging Debate
Raging Debate's picture

Hey it is me! 999 666

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 21:36 | 1806767 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

So by that logic, we should elect outright idiots who offer no solutions.  Great plan. 

Mon, 10/24/2011 - 23:23 | 1807022 akak
akak's picture

Isn't that exactly what we (collectively) DO do already?

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!