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Republican Budget Would Slash Taxes, Establish Two-Bracket Tax System And Scrap AMT

Tyler Durden's picture





 

While it has no chance of passage, the GOP 2013 budget, details of which have been leaked by the WSJ, proposes slashing corporate and individual tax rates, collapsing the current six tax bracket system into just two tiers (10% and 25%), lowering top corporate tax rate to 25% and scrapping the anachronism that is the AMT, or Alternative Minimum Tax. Finally, the proposed plan would nearly eliminate U.S. taxes on American corporations' earnings from overseas operations: something which companies with foreign cash would be rather happy to hear. Needless to say, Democrats will promptly dead end this budget in the Senate: "The proposal, to be offered by Rep. Paul Ryan (R., Wis.), who has become the Republicans' leading figure on budget issues, has little chance of becoming law soon. While likely to be welcomed by House GOP rank-and-file members, it would be rejected by the Democratic-controlled Senate."

Among the more contentious issues is the elimination of some top individual tax brackets...

The current tax system has six individual tax brackets, with a top marginal rate of 35%. The proposal to replace it with just two brackets, with rates of 10% and 25%, echoes proposals by some GOP presidential contenders. Former Pennsylvania Sen. Rick Santorum would reduce rates to 10% and 28%; former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney would cut current rates by one-fifth; and former House Speaker Newt Gingrich and Texas Rep. Ron Paul support some form of flat tax.

...As well as the elimination of repatriation taxation, allowing companies like Apple to bring back their foreign cash horde tax free:

The new budget also would lower the top corporate tax rate to 25% from 35% and plunge into a fierce debate about how to tax companies' overseas operations. Currently, U.S. companies pay the tax rate of the country where the outpost is located and then, if they bring those profits home, often pay some U.S. taxes as well. Under the Ryan-Camp proposal, companies essentially would pay just the tax rate of the country where the profits are earned.

So why is the GOP proposing this?

"We don't expect to make law this year, but we expect to give the country an alternative choice for the future," Mr. Ryan, who chairs the House Budget Committee, said in an interview. "We're going into this election with a specific plan and showing how we could realize it and get it done."

 

The document was drafted with input from Rep. David Camp (R., Mich.), who heads the tax-writing Ways and Means Committee and has long pushed for a tax overhaul. "We think it's very important to have a clear message on jobs and the economy," Mr. Camp said. "The code is too costly, too burdensome, and it's hurting job creation, so we think we should take action."

Democrats see the tax issue as a smokescreen:

Democrats see the tax proposal as an attempt to deflect attention from the more controversial parts of Mr. Ryan's budget, such as a Medicare overhaul and a decision to set 2013 spending levels at a lower figure than that agreed to in the debt-limit deal last August.

 

"Republicans are on a maddening push once again to end Medicare and raise health-care costs for seniors, while giving more special tax breaks to big oil companies and millionaires," said Rep. Steve Israel (D., N.Y.), who coordinates the House Democrats' campaigns.

 

Mr. Ryan caused a furor last year by proposing to change Medicare from a program in which the government pays directly for health care into a "premium support" program for those currently 55 or younger. Medicare would subsidize beneficiaries' premiums as they bought private insurance.

In other words, it is a given that none of the proposed by the GOP will happen.

Instead, the Democrats favor the Buffett rule, which seeks to further widen the class divide by making the wealthy pay progressively more, in the process funding even greater bailouts of TBTF financial institutions, and the even greater encroachment of the insolvent welfare state.

So while the political theatrics continue, the US still has to decide what expenditures it will cut as part of last summer's debt ceiling deal. That this will not happen is also a given.

Which makes us wonder: why even pretend with taxation? As we have shown, the US is progressively more reliant on debt issuance as a funding source for all deficit. At last check debt issuance served to fund 54% of all government expenditures, as tax revenues net of refunds now account for less than half. In fact as of today, in Fiscal 2012 the US has issued $115 billion more in debt ($776 billion) than it has collected in net tax revenues ($661 billion).

So why pretend America will ever repay its debt? Why engage in meaningless political theatrics and senseless optics, and collect taxes at all, as sooner or later virtually all US deficits will be funded through debt issuance, and thus Fed monetization? Why not just cut all marginal tax rates to 0%, and get consumers to truly enjoy a few months of unbridled spending euphoria before the hyperinflation hits?

Alas, we won't find many answers here or anywhere.

For the interested, here is the personal message from Paul Ryan in the form of a rhetorical question. It too will not be answered: after all America (and everyone else, everywhere) has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that taking pain in the short-term, in order to avoid a complete catastrophe in the longer-term, is not only unacceptable, it is inconceivable. Especially when there are iTrinkets to be distracted with.

The Path to Prosperity Budget: Your Country. Your Future. Your Choice.

 

 


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Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:17 | Link to Comment Timmay
Timmay's picture

The tax rate is meaningless unless you factor in the exemptions....

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:24 | Link to Comment AndTheRest
AndTheRest's picture

That was also the age of mass tax evasion.  The billionaires didn't pay ANY taxes.  As in the case of Leona Helmsly.

 

"We don't pay taxes, only the little people pay taxes."

 

The fact that you think a man would work for 10 cents on the dollar illustrates just how stupid you really are.  I'll be on the golf course with Peter Schiff when you retards implement these 75%+ tax brackets you're dreaming of to punish the rich and steal their money to fund your chosen groups (illegals, minority schools, scholarships for women to fail math and science courses in college, etc.).  Right after I hit my yearly earnings "limit."

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:53 | Link to Comment Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

The reason the libtards want to tax the rich is simple: they are simply incapable of, or unwilling to, make money by honest dint of their own effort or intellect.

It really is as simple as that.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:55 | Link to Comment SystemsGuy
SystemsGuy's picture

Last I heard, at least before her death, Leona Helmsley was in prison for that income tax evasion.

In order to earn a billion dollars, it helps to start out with many millions of dollars and a fair number of social connections. Then you have to game the system - sell suckers poor quality goods while raking in top dollar, outsourcing all your labor to china and your wastes to Mexico so that it can be someone else's problem, investing in a Senator or two to help rewrite legislation that will let you land sweetheart no bid contracts with the government, buying up mortgages in bulk that you know can't be paid off then repackaging them as high grade financial instruments to pension funds, leverage junk to gut companies ... you know, the more that I think about it, there are really very few ways that you can get to be highly wealthy without being out and out criminal scum. By doing it in a nice business suit or a polo shirt on the fairway you somehow seem to make it legitimate, but it's still fraud, extortion, bribery and theft. So I'd be a little careful about how you throw around phrases like "punish the rich and steal their money". It seems a little ... deceitful.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:42 | Link to Comment fearsomepirate
fearsomepirate's picture

Yes, those evil rich people and evil corporations sure ruined the shit out of our economy with their low-quality goods.  If only we could go back to the good old days of the 1910s, when a hand-made car was affordable only to the rich and lasted about 20,000 miles, or back to the 1950s, when only the rich could fly and planes jostled around in the turbulent lower atmosphere, or back to the 1960s, when you could get a quality, hand-made computer for little more than your entire annual income.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 00:03 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

lol, and the 'rich' did that all on their oddy knockies out of a sense of the purest altruism, without help or advantage taken from any of the 'little people'.

Patty Hearst, is that you?

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 08:35 | Link to Comment fearsomepirate
fearsomepirate's picture

Altruists produce absolutely nothing of value, just religion and politics.  Give me a selfish bastard who wants my money badly enough to give me something I want in exchange for it *any* day of the week.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 14:15 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Yeah, and that's working out great isn't it?

"Altruists produce absolutely nothing of value", what complete twaddle, creating value is inherent in the definition of the fucking word.

Forgive me for mistaking you for Patty Hearst, apparently you're on the other side of that equation. 

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 07:40 | Link to Comment Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Spot on.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:29 | Link to Comment chunkylover42
chunkylover42's picture

The top brackets in the 1950's applied to individuals making over $1 million in today's dollars, and the tax code was loaded with deductions such that very few people (if any) actually paid those rates.  It's factors like this that gave us the AMT in the 1970s.

More importantly, we had the distinct advantage of having destroyed 75% of the world's industrial capacity during WWII with the added bonus of pent-up demand of thousands of GIs returning from overseas and starting families.  Fewer families had multiple cars or homes (and the added expenses) than today.  The U.S. was the only game in town and had to compete with, well, nobody really.  Not only could other countries not produce many things for themselves, they needed what we produced.  We were equivalent to today's emerging markets yet we were also one of the world's superpowers.

Finally, feel free to adopt the 1950s standard of living as compared to today - I think you'll be rather disappointed.

 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:53 | Link to Comment ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Sounds great and makes for a cute quote, however please do show me a single example of ANYONE paying 90%. Never happened, never will.

The 90% rate was the 'let's make a deal' rate advertized by politicians who gladly accepted payola in exchange for producing 'exemptions'

Part of the history leading to a nation that now stands fat, dumb, broke and with 72+ thousand pages of tax code.

Grow up dude.

 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:59 | Link to Comment Moneyswirth
Moneyswirth's picture

Yeah let's go back to taxing the wealthy at 90%.  In exchange, can we abolish Medicare/Medicaid programs?  Because those didn't exist in the glorious 1950s.

Talk about starving the beast--the beast wasn't even born yet.

The Medicare law officially started us on the road to financial ruin and turned our government into an entitlement state.  SS was around but it was still demographically viable.

If you're willing to gut entitlements, I'll start talking about raising taxes.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 00:10 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

Hmm interesting choice of 'entitlements'. I take it 'defense' spending is sacrosanct? Once you grow the balls to gut the MIC, I'll be willing to talk about lowering taxes even further for the insanely wealthy.

See what I did there?

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 07:44 | Link to Comment Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Yes, I did. Changed the subject, offered distractions. Anything but cut the welfare state.

What, you in love with financial suicide? Is this how you do your family budget?

If so, I understand the envy of the rich. You are a bottomfeeder and a nipple sucker.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 14:34 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

I do confess I derive great pleasure from the sensation of a woman's nipples on my lips, must be a Freudian thing. For that I make no apologies.

I don't need to 'envy' anyone pal, it's much much more akin to 'disgust' cubed.

War is the real 'welfare state financial suicide', you war pig death sucker you.  

Eg.1 T. Douglas' CCF SOCIALIST Gov't ran 17 (count 'em) surplus budgets; but then again he didn't send the impoverished from his constituency around the world shoving their dicks into hornets' nests.

Eg.2 http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2010/may/27/debt-deficit-oecd-countries-data

So ignoramous, tell me who's 'in the black' the most in that table.

See what I did there?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:10 | Link to Comment RoadKill
RoadKill's picture

I have no skills that differentiate me from the other 7 billion people on this planet. I dont want to work hard or take risks, but I feel Im entitled to every luxury in life in return for playing solitaire 30 hours a week in my government office that is gauranteed for life regardless of performance. So please take 100% of everything anyone makes over $50,000 in the evil private sector and give it to me and my friends. Oh and take away their (the smart, hardworking, entreprenuerial rich bastards) passports and enact laws that force them to work at least 80 hours a week so we dont have to deal with them threatening to move or deciding to work less.

Hey it worked in Venezuela, Cuba, Ecuador and Argentina.

Oh wait all of the rich, smart, entrepreneurial Venezuelans, Ecquadorians, Cubans and Argentinians live in Miami. We better make sure we get their passports and money too.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:27 | Link to Comment JID
JID's picture

With so many loopholes that no one paid the 90%.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:34 | Link to Comment fearsomepirate
fearsomepirate's picture

There was also no Medicare, the Social Security age in terms of percent of your life expectancy was equivalent to raising the retirement age to 77 today, women didn't work, white people didn't have to compete with black people for good jobs, Medicaid didn't exist, "two-car family" meant "wealthy," and there were two recessions.  But hey, we had a great export market, what with just having bombed the shit out of the rest of the world.  So all we need to do repristinate the 1950s is start WWIII and cut most of old folks' benefits.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:49 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Except that we had to destroy the productive capacity of the rest of the planet as a prerequisite for those 90% tax rates. If you really want to break all those windows again, be my guest. I will be right behind you...actually, I will be sitting on the porch with an ice cold beer.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 01:23 | Link to Comment malek
malek's picture

Well fuck, think of how much better things would have been if the tax rate for the wealthiest had been 99.9%!!!

That would truly have been paradise achieved on earth!

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 02:06 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Check yer premises.  Credit cards did not exist in the 1950s (with the exception of Diner's Club).  Comparing apples and oranges only works if yer trying to make fruit salad.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 04:03 | Link to Comment Leraconteur
Leraconteur's picture

Which means that they DID exist then.

Guess who used Diner's Club Cards?

Businessmen taking other businessmen out to lunch.

On the company expense account.

And writing it all off. 100% of the Interest included.

Next time, know what you are posting about.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 04:00 | Link to Comment Leraconteur
Leraconteur's picture

1) The entire rest of the planet, and its industrial capacity, and all means of production and employment, had been destroyed. If you wanted to earn $100,000 per year in 1950 the ONLY place to do it was the USA.

2) Total compensation packages then had massive write-offs that shifted what would be paid in 2012 on to the company ledger and were written off 100% via a much more business friendly tax code. Credit card debt, auto loans, 3-martini lunches, alcohol - all were 100% deductible in 1950.

Thus few people were actually paid in salary at the top bracket. They were compensated in many other ways off the books. Thus the top 1% had their income as a huge number of returns just under the top bracket.

3) It's not your money, or societies money, or the government's money, in the first place.

4) Raise the USA top bracket to 90% and watch revenues crater, watch as assets flee the country, watch as people up and move to Singapore by the millions.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 07:36 | Link to Comment Cadavre
Cadavre's picture

In the 50's the tax rate for the wealthiest was 90%

A tax rate is a hole in a dough nut the perception ministry try to make us believe ain't really hole. Like a baker calling the bubbled voids in leavened bread "flavor cells" . Call `em whatever, they a hole with nothing in it. Rate is a word in a ruse - smack to reassure dull bling grazers. If ya talking rates, ya got a look at the effective rate, anyways.

Anyone that know a grocer that will accept rates as payment for bag of cheetos, the current edition of Big Momma Magazine and a bug gulp and is able to schedule lunch to discuss a ground floor franchise participation opportunity regarding the latest and most exciting innovation concept in delusional pyramid market scheme ever  conceived, the new next Perpetual Rehypothocating Profit Regeneration as an Instant Water (".. just add water")  home sales associate partner (ask obout our 5 star gold plan), you'll get points whe he closed, guaraaaantee it.

So ... Current Straw Man Ken Doll Face Fall Guy Digitally Flipped Air Fern Plurality Select Rick now pantomiming a call for liberty - after he hock every thing to fry de devil axis of evil freedom hating box cutter pirate brownies and Hitler Reincarnates, the  ________ (fill in blank, ex AL KADA, AND ANYONE ELSE THE BOMB SALESMAN RECOMMEND) .

Daughter say: Mommy - mommy - there's an al kada under my bed!

Mommy Say: Don't worry dear, we  use Monsanto Professional strength DU ENRICHED AL KADA CIDE (please read the fine print, or now and get a free second bottle of DU ENRICHED AL KADA CIDE - just pay shipping and handling)

The proposed electioneering yada yada belched by the Grand Old Pervert Party of our born again, but not quite ready to audition as a junior summer theater grade "second" and repackaged wanna be Dr Paul Chameleon, Rick "the dick, where be my dick - oh dere it is" Sanitarium, who do enjoy de marquis top bill special recognition as being the only senator, of three designated by CREW, in 2006, for innovation in graft and corruption, THAT AIN'T ASKING A CELL MATE IN AN ORANGE SUIT NAMED JIMMY BO BOB BUBBA to, "did you like that daddy".

And anyway, What can be acquired with a pocket full of "rate"?

The Usury's Perception and Compliance Ministry's, through the Information and Context Control for Relay Group for DEMOGRAPHIC ORDINAL #VAOBC (or Very Afraid Of Box Cutters), always be a crying poor poor corps - look at their tax rates. oh da corpmanity ....

EXXON GOD ZILLIONS IN PROFITS - EFFECTIVE RATE 0%

GE 26 BILLION PROFIT - EFFECTIVE TAX RATE (negative) 20% - IRS gave `em nigh near 5 Billion in grants from the commons monies/

The Corporate Church of Conforming Conditions in partnership with the Brain Numb Media Ministry be shitting us all de time with intangible concepts that underly de intangible asset pig n a poke.

From art:
proposes slashing corporate and individual tax rates, collapsing the current six tax bracket system into just two tiers (10% and 25%), lowering top corporate tax rate to 25% and scrapping the anachronism that is the AMT, or Alternative Minimum Tax. Finally, the proposed plan would nearly eliminate U.S. taxes on American corporations' earnings from overseas operations: something which companies with foreign cash would be rather happy to hear.

Again: Is DoD's Budget a rate - NO. It be dollars. Dollars are what we borrow - rates are what we sell to get those dollars. We borrow 4 Billion Dollars a month.

Rates and dis or dat or just symptoms. They a promise or an illusion of expectation but they ain't cash.

Tellin ya - it wont be fixed until we go to a monetary standard and worth is determined by cash in pocket.

To assure the monetary standard persists ya gotz to to move to single entry P/L accounting.

Sim it out. Balance Sheet Gap grap was invented to assure, despite the expected sure as shit be shit social economic resets resulting from "bubbles" that are seeded, hidden and always pop, cycle over cycle over cycle by inyagible asset gap grap in a poke, that rehypotocation ponzi economics always reinfect. It form a spore cyst and wait for the freeload opportunity sensor gene to reanimate de cycle all over,

After the collapse the commons always restores monetary standards and then bit by bit, through balance sheet accounting that allows cash out to morph into an intangible asst. Money spent is money spent. Value is Cash. Stock is an expectation. AP and A/R are promises. Promise and expectation don't put bread on plate, unless we be eating intangible bread?

The commons thinks the reset was monetary policy. So they restore it, and a couple of generations later, the money is all funny. It's not tax in vs tax out. It ain't tax rates. Its 1) Balance Sheet Accounting 2) and central bank currency controls that 3) allow players in the "promissory casino" to use chips that look just like central bank notes 4) that get co mingled with real money.

Sim it out: Your Sim Economy has a pound of shiny and a "clean" monetary standard that sets 100 Dollars to the pound of shiny on hand. Balance Sheet is still the gap and the promissory are allowed to manufacture and use chips (as many as they need)  that look exactly like the "real" dollar. Eventually, as it always do, something happens and the commons old nemesis, the third node of the Rehypothocation Trinity, the central bank, is back in play. Before the central bank came back on line the chips that are exact replicas of the commons' "real" the promissory market has been manufacturing get deposited (comingled) in the central bank with real money.

At some point, but unknown to the commons cause the central bank got some religious divine claim to not show da ledger, the comingled and real money and promissory market chips exceed the 100$ value of the gold  the Sim Economy has in vault. Sincing no one can sort chip from dollar and sincing central bank got divine protections cause dey a employee of god, and don't have to say where de money came from, buy all the gold the commons has, and still has a drawer of real dollars comingled  with dem play promissory chips. The commons just sold it's all monetary underly to the central bank and got back chips.

No standard no more cause the central bank runs it - and it turn out - all dem players dat were hoochie gooing n the promissory casino - and rehypoticating intangible assets to counterfeit - well guess de what - dey now be the top drawer FMOC suits at the FED, or at least de be da thumb on de joy stick that make the Berskanki Man BOt Walk and Talk.

Monetary Standard only work if P/L is GAP. You buy a piece of paper it be just money spent until you sell it - a loss of cash on hand = intangible asset - gimme a f*cking break.

The problem is not Corportations are People.
The problem is People are not Corporations.

Yeah dat Central Bank a good dawg - it just shit too darn close to de house sometimes.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 09:31 | Link to Comment jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

Yes, its amazing how we managed to outproduce Japan, China and Europe in the '50's.   It probably was the high taxes that  drove our success.  Oh, and unions...

/sarc

When was WWII?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:51 | Link to Comment jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

Paul Ryan is an expert as something? More like a complete idiot.   When he opens his mouth, nothing but idiocy spews forth.  How anyone is fooled by this retard is a testament to the educational system of this nation, not to mention the Snookie type distractions keeping people from thinking.

 

It's also not about taking short term 'pain'.  Because that can be described as anything.  That's a tunnel a C-130 could fly through.  Cut this, cut that.  No.  Zero the fraud.  Cut the fraudulent setup of the system.   The economy doesn't get better by cutting things that had nothing to do with the fraud that caused this mess.  It just makes numbers look better at the expense of the people, and fools those into thinking their dogmatic ideologies were the reason.  How about focusing the actions to remedy our situation, on the exact things that caused it.  Fraud.  Fraudulent setup.  Dogmatic beliefs in Monetarism and their sophistry filled arguments.

So fraud was committed.  Let's stop all funding for the weights and measures department.  Yeah, that'll do it.

 

Glass-Steagall  (will take us from utter insolvency to merely bankrupt)

American Credit System (reintroduces into that void federal credit NOT borrowed into existance, to get the economy going with real physical economic projects...not simple repairing roads and bridges...but machine tools, mag lev, space program, fusion, NAWAPA, etc [the really big, important ones, with HUGE benefits...not simple make work])

 

Paul Ryan is as delusional as Paul Krugman. 

 

 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:56 | Link to Comment cjbosk
cjbosk's picture

JMC, I'm agast by your complete and unparalleled idiocy!

 

 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:41 | Link to Comment weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

I'm agast by your stupidity...so we're even!

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:35 | Link to Comment jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

ROFL

I try.  You know, I could bang my head into the wall and pretend it isn't monetarism (a fake economic construct made up by oligarchs FOR oligarchs), or that we just needed to tweak the dogma a little bit or choose another monetarist version (because the current one doesn't work but some other wrong monetary theory would lol), or that we can cut (everything to 0) and somehow outweigh the printing (to infinity) for fraud.  But I just can't.

Maybe I laughed a bit too much at the idiocy of the 'toughest' economics professor that everyone avoided like the plague (yet scored better at regurgitation of crap than any of his believers had for years, if ever) a decade ago and just could never get past the crap.com was worth 300 bucks a share on no revenue multiplied around the tech sector as much as the average rehypothecated asset at your favorite TBTF. 

Anyone that knows business, realizes that the way to make a large portion of businesses more competitive is to alter the construct for the prices of the inputs that is conducive to growth.  So lowering the cost of energy, water, better machine tools, new materials from the space program, so on and so forth, is the best way forward. That and by not printing for fraud and zombies will have an impact as well, obviously.  Not only do you lower input costs, but get better process, materials, and machines that drive sales of whatever takes advantage of the improvement in these aspects.   It's nothing about not having winners or losers, it's about not determining them through turning a blind eye at the reality of money printing coupled with opening up alternative supplies for precious resources.

You can't print to fusion.

You can't cut to better machine tools.

You can cut social services to 0.

But they'll print to infinity for fraud.  (which is a far bigger differential, one that never has to reach a zero bound limit).  

So what is the point of cutting services again?  To feel good that some idiot neighborhood watch guy shot a 'black man' (really a child) because he was walking down the street with a bag of skittles on the way home from 7-11 during halftime of the All-Star game, with such a 'watch' necessary most likely (but entire speculative) due to lower police coverage because of budgetary reasons...and know that reduction in fire, police, healthcare, amongst the endless list of reduced services, somehow offsets the fraud enough that we never have to address or correct it?

Or we can be like Greece and cut everyone's wages by 1/4th or more, and state they are 'halfway' there.  No they aren't halfway there, which also implies a doubling of wage cuts.  Yeah like people are going to want to have their wages cut 50-75 percent, not to mention all the other cuts, the fraudulent system is still in place, and somehow believe things are getting better.  Yea. Cut wages in half, halfway there, now cut the other half, problem solved.  Nope.  Only to those who believe dogma over reality.

Let me spend a thousand bucks on boat improvements on some mythical boat and forget to fix the hole in the hull.  But I guess hope floats, and Obama gives us change only a retard could believe in.  But the only way to be against him, is support Paul 'Nolan' Ryan who seemingly throws fastballs past the mental midgets at the economic plate (his supporters) that suggests lowering the taxes on the worst offenders of perpetuating fraud AFTER the fraud was committed and on the books (and still ongoing) will right the economic ship.  If that was Paul Ryan's ship or cruise boat, he'd abandon ship when reality hit as fast as Francesco Schettino ditched the Costa Concordia.

People still believe that somehow simple monetary policy can influence us so things work.  No monetary policy doesn't actually do anything.  It expects everyone else to somehow do on a grand scale what even Apple x100 couldn't do on its own...let alone that no one wants to do it, when you can make money through fraud...all through the monetary policies we've enacted.  Why do something real when you can influence numbers, get goalseeked result, and profit like Bernie Madoff, through fraud?   Sounds so good only a behavioral 'scientist' is smart enough to understand it after talking with a PH.D level economics professor.

The only Austerity that is correct, is that which occurs during the transition to this phase, as some really useless crap will be gone or stagnated for a bit.  Maybe it's tough for funding for video game companies.  Oh no.  I guess I'll have to play CoD MW4 or whatever, instead of getting CoD MW5, even though they are basically the same thing anyways.  There are some non-critical things that will have to take a pause, but without the fraud, they'd collapse, so at least with a real functioning economy, the useless crap still has a chance to slightly come back...if it's that important to some people.  But once the economy gets going, something tells me Apple will release the iPad 37, just maybe made in America, instead of by a guy who might be jumping off the roof as we speak...can we have an app for that? Can we like it on Facebook?

I mean afterall my stastical model says I'm 99 percent right, so how could I ever be wrong on this?  It's impossible.  Will never happen.

Long live monetarism, the construct of the oligarchy.

Or we could do the right thing, and end monetarism...the oligarchy's continuous feeder fund.  Our choice, until Diebold changes it.

THE MONETARY SYSTEM IS INTRINSICALLY AN IMPERIAL SYSTEM OF OLIGARCHISM.  Thus who wants to fight over which oligarch point of view is supposedly correct?

 

Glass-Steagall

American Credit System

 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:21 | Link to Comment cjbosk
cjbosk's picture

You call Ryan an idiot and expect to get some respect. Sorry, you lost me there.  Then you digress to some neighborhood watch program gone bad. 

Put the bong down dude, it will work well for you're income statement and balance sheet in the future, I promise you 'dat.

Here's to me paying your taxes, cheers!

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 01:25 | Link to Comment malek
malek's picture

Yep, I also want... eh, what again was YOUR favorite candidate?

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 04:13 | Link to Comment Leraconteur
Leraconteur's picture

also implies a doubling of wage cuts.  Yeah like people are going to want to have their wages cut 50-75 percent, not to mention all the other cuts, the fraudulent system is still in place, and somehow believe things are getting better.  Yea. Cut wages in half, halfway there, now cut the other half, problem solved.  Nope.  Only to those who believe dogma over reality.

Maths doesn't care what you want.

The USA is out of money and out of time.

The wage cuts are coming because there is no more money to pay at those levels.

If you taxed the top 1% in the USA at 100% of their 2009 AGI as IRS stats show, you would STILL have a deficit that year.

Then you tax the top 5% at 80%.

Then the following year revenues crater because people won't work for free.

If you attempt to tax assets (steal their money), people will set it on fire or move overseas and spend it all there in one year, out of spite, rather than have a theiving government steal it from them by force.

Times up, money is gone, your wages are going down regardless of who you vote for, what you want or if you are I, R or D.

Even if you stiff the bankstas, something I completely agree with, all of these societies STILL have been spending more than they take in tax revenues, and the wages will crater the same amount anyhow. The only choice is if you want a society that has wages 50% of 2007 levels with or without massive debt overhand.

Greece or Iceland. Pick one.

Everyone needs to default, the bankers all need to go to jail, let the top 30 world CDS holders go under, and spend the $3,000B the USA has wasted on recapitalising the USA banking sector with 10 new federally chartered banks staffed ONLY by regional bank staff practicing old school, pre-1970 methods.

This replaces the credit that will disappear when BOA and HSBC implode.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 09:33 | Link to Comment jwoop66
jwoop66's picture

Yes, fraud.  Fraud in medicare. Fraud in social security. Fraud in welfare. Fraud in unemployment.  Fraud in medicaid. 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:38 | Link to Comment SHEEPFUKKER
SHEEPFUKKER's picture

Really? Another budget battle to look forward to.....

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:51 | Link to Comment brewing
brewing's picture

this isn't going to be a battle.  it's another chance to punt by democrats & republicans...

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:41 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

More smoke and mirrors bullshit. If these fuckers were serious they'd commit suicide and put the country back in the hands of it's citizens.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:01 | Link to Comment Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

 

 

Absolutely Correct, Sir!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zDn9AfE4MfI

 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:42 | Link to Comment LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

Hi Yo!!!

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:42 | Link to Comment kito
kito's picture

Dear congress: Please spare us the bullshit..you divide and conquer, you have no interest in making real productive changes....you prefer the paradigm where pacs feed your false promises, where you galvanize your hapless constituents in election years....you get along beautifully when voting to strip Americans of their liberties....we pray for a third party to relieve you of your derelict ways......

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:00 | Link to Comment dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

You know why they call it Congress....??

 

Cause Shitfuck was taken..........

 

Soon congress will have a choice to make........5 wall street banks or 320 million pissed off Americans......

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:08 | Link to Comment Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

Because congress is a synonym for being pronged, where the prong and prongee both agree to the pronging and all specific locations.  Our congress however, is the prong, and there will be no talk or thought about the prongee after the wham bam. There is no representation, but there is plenty of taxation.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:12 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Who will be left to be pissed off with 50% on welfare and 35% working for the government? Three hundred and eleven pissed off people does not a paradigm shift make.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:43 | Link to Comment WillieNelsonListener
Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:50 | Link to Comment Rynak
Rynak's picture

Even though, the whole budget proposal is of course nothing more than election propaganda, and not meant in any way seriously, the only reason i didn't vote this article 5 stars, but instead 4, was the implication of the class-divide.

Yes, from a propaganda-pov, it is nothing more than appealing to classes and idealogy, agreed. But from a FAIR market (rather than just "free market") pov, the consolidation of wealth at the top of the pyramid, as well as the already existing sharp income pyramid, is the symptom (not cause) of everything that is ponzi about the current system.

(This is not to say, that i favour absolute equality - i.e. everyone getting the same, regardless of what he/she does. However, from a fair market POV, a too steep wealth distribution, results in cartels and monopolies defending their position with nothing more than accumulated capital, as opposed to real performance. From a fair-market POV, "reward for 'success'" therefore makes sense up to a point... to distinguish between good and bad service... but if those rewards - relative to the bottom of the pyramid - grow too large, it results in the opposite of what "free-market"-proponents like to call "competition".

I.e. i in principle - ignoring what taxes are used for (thats another SNAFU topic) - i totally support a top taxrate of 80%... but applying to incomes so high, that it boggles the mind of most people (NOT talking about "millionaires"). Does that mean that i advocate taxing the middleclass more? NO! It just means cutting down on the top of the ponzi, and making income distribution more like a steep hill, rather than a tower, that spikes at 1.000.000.000.000m above the rockbed)

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:09 | Link to Comment Defenestratus
Defenestratus's picture

Believing that anyone, even the government, is entitled to 80% of what someone earns or owns is simply indigestable by my fair-minded brain.

How people can think that they have a right to the property of others on penalty of incarceration is beyond me.

 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:16 | Link to Comment Rynak
Rynak's picture

You misunderstood me (or underestimated my comment regarding "what taxes are used for"):

I do NOT advocate the gov from some people getting 80% to spend arbitrarily. I just support a possible (but with the current style of what people call gov, impossible) 80% redistribution regarding the top of the ponzi.

Actually, even this is a bit misleading. What i support, is a soft-cap on wealth - triggering automatical redistribution to the rest of the pop - including the middle class. What i advocate is "people and corps have this range of advantage vs. disadvantage.... choosen so that those at an advantage, cannot outrightly DOMINATE the market (thus killing not only fair markets, but also popular premises of a "free market").

What i advocate, is a limit to the scale of dominating others! Because it runs contrary to any ideology, that is not willing to allow any kind of total "governance" (regardless of what "label" that total gov gets... i.e. i don't fucking care, if it is a mega-corp, a mega-bank, or a mega-gov... I DONT FUCKING CARE ABOUT SYMBOLS - I CARE ABOUT MEANING AND REAL CONSEQUENCES).

And: Your implied "negative right to the property of others" DOES allow the current ponzi. Hey, look, on paper the global vampire called GS, DOES have the right to own the planet... it's property actually is the entire planet.... you advocate that, pseudo-libertarian? Or are you making an exception for this case, so that you can keep up the illusion of your false-dichotomy?

P.S.: Oh, and as for the usual ZH sheeple that junked me (someday, i will take this as "business as usual for being honest and reasonable": You fucking only care about yourselves, in a misguided ideology of this actually benefiting you (which is what makes you easily contrallable for the ponzi. You do not care about how to create a fair and efficient economy and market.... all you have, is a bunch of hollow symbols, that supposedly achieve heaven, with you absolutely inable to explain "how so", except of via "well, we imagine ourselfves to be the opposite of what is. What is doesn't work, therefore we must be right. UGH, i'm a stupid caveman ideologist, that doesn't fucking care about what is, doesn't fucking care about me, nor my surroundings, doesn't fucking care about how to overally improve the system... but instead, only care about the symbols given to me, and maximizing them... i'm a mental serf!)

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 04:18 | Link to Comment Leraconteur
Leraconteur's picture

Actually, even this is a bit misleading. What i support, is a soft-cap on wealth - triggering automatical redistribution to the rest of the pop - including the middle class.

This is theft.

No.

It is not your money to take, it is not the government's money to take, it is not 'owed or due' society.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 14:53 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

so says you.

Retrieving what is owed from the unwilling is not theft, neither is retrieving what was initially stolen, it's called recompense.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:45 | Link to Comment Lady Heather...UNCLE
Lady Heather...UNCLE's picture

Didn't think USSA ever did the budget thing. It's just a big piss take. Deficits bitchez...and monetisation. Sheeple are stupid

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:47 | Link to Comment Omen IV
Omen IV's picture

dont kid yourself Obama is not the best negotiator and may be a double agent for the right - see the piece in NY Magazine - on past negotiations

these republicans will keep up the pressure - theywill dismantle SS and Medicare sooner or later with Obama claiming he did all he could

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:58 | Link to Comment barliman
barliman's picture

 

Sniff .... sniff ... sniff

Do you smell that?  Hmmmm?

Smells like a liberal pogrom is brewing!

" ... Obama is not the best negotiator and may be a double agent for the right - see the piece in NY Magazine ..."

Let me guess ... they found Obama's real birth certificate and his father is listed as George H. W. Bush ???!!!????

Oh, this could be fun! 

barliman

P.S. This works for the left 'cause it really would all be Booosh's fault !!!

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:08 | Link to Comment Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Maybe the republicans are really agents for the left. That sounds about as ridiculous as your statement. Allow me to explain it to you.... They are all the same. Each and every one of them. There is no right and left to them. To them it's all about the preservation of government and the perks the recieve. Grow up.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:43 | Link to Comment weinerdog43
weinerdog43's picture

Grow up.

That would be excellent advice junior.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:46 | Link to Comment kito
kito's picture

doc knows the ills of congress....too bad most don't see it.....

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:48 | Link to Comment skepticCarl
skepticCarl's picture

"It has no chance of passage" tells you right there that there must be some good in the proposal.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:00 | Link to Comment tickhound
tickhound's picture

lol probably true... but let's not kid ourselves.  This plan does ABSOLUTELY NOT ONE FREAKING THING to address the problems this nation faces...................AS IF boosting a little 'growth' would actually help at this point. LOL!

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:48 | Link to Comment TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

Hypinflation for Halloween?

Boo!!!

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:49 | Link to Comment radicall
radicall's picture

Yeah.. when I need to pay off debt - I will ask my boss to cut my pay too. It must help me pay off my debts faster.

 

I love the idea of lower taxes (If I get the 10% tax bracket)- only problem is, how does that affect the budget.

Cutting Seniors off of medicare today is definitely not politically/socially feasible.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:50 | Link to Comment Number 156
Number 156's picture

Saying and doing are two different things.

 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:02 | Link to Comment A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Kind of like auditing the FED........................

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:50 | Link to Comment Alexandros
Alexandros's picture

To avoid banks collapse, the state is “sunk” and lead by the loan sharks like lambs to the slaughter. To prevent the loansharking “anvil”, that threatens us with “drowning”, from getting wet, we raise it high above, and therefore it is us who get sunk. This is the way the private debt gets transformed into public. The private –and so harmless- debt gets transformed into public –and so dangerous for our survival- debt. Instead of the loan sharks to tremble for their safety, due to the failure of their private customers to pay them back, people tremble for their safety because countries undertake this “burden" and they can pay them back at the expense of their people.

Global Debt Crisis ...The greatest private fraud of human history.

http://eamb-ydrohoos.blogspot.com/2012/01/global-debt-crisis.html

Authored by PANAGIOTIS TRAIANOU


Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:50 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

They MUST collect taxes, otherwise, if people were not required to pay taxes with dollars, people could choose not to use dollars at all. Also, if they stop pretending and openly admit they have no plan to pay back the debt, bye-bye Reserve Currency status, overnight instead of gradually as it is now.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:52 | Link to Comment barliman
barliman's picture

 

Excellent idea!

But first ... as a sign of good faith ... include in the bill the elimination of the Departments of Energy, Education, Commerce and Housing; a 50% reduction in the size of all other Departments (excluding Defense - which will be separately budgeted on a line item basis including "black" projects) by total employee count and 95% match on total benefits paid per position in the public arena; and an immediate & retroactive elimination of Congressional benefits inclusive of healthcare.

We can hammer out the details after this bill is passed and signed by the President.

Does that work for you, Messrs Boehner, Cantor, Reid, Pelosi et al?

barliman

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:09 | Link to Comment Matt
Matt's picture

If you're going to abolish the department responsible for the nuclear weapons arsenal, you might as well auction off all the nukes while you're at it, rather than letting them just sit there with no one looking after them, and use the proceeds of the auction for debt reduction.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:54 | Link to Comment quidam
quidam's picture

"a decision to set 2013 spending levels at a lower figure than that agreed to in the debt-limit deal last August."

The nerve! How dare they...

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:54 | Link to Comment Catullus
Catullus's picture

Taxes are entropy to rising prices from money printing so that those closest to the money printing trough feed at lower prices before the market prices adjust.

That 40% haircut that the productive class takes on their earnings is to prevent them from acquiring assets at the same rates the privileged get to.

 

If this is a Republican plan, they got to these tax rates by eliminating loop holes.  It's the same rate with fewer tax breaks.  "Revenue neutral" as they've been calling it since Reagan didn't lower taxes in the 1980s.  They take away you breaks, lower the rates, and then someone down the line raises the rates on you and you've lost your tax breaks.  You end up in the worst of all possible worlds.  They'll call it "simplifying the tax code" for those of you haven't picked up on the ruse yet.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:54 | Link to Comment Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

Greece will begin the domino effect, they know the grand plan. Budgets were never enforced, because the derivatives market will wipe out many.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 20:54 | Link to Comment FXPortent
FXPortent's picture

Paul Ryan is a complete dunce and a simple distraction from what's relevant to say the very least. The fact that people thinks he is sincere is stunning.

 

I see little to no discussion of the Federal Reserve or other central banks for that matter nor do I see any relevant dicussions on cutting into the defense budget(aside from Ron Paul).

Do any of these Repugnants talk about how horrible Bush was?

The only man that will reduce the national debt is Ron Paul, but apparently he is "unelectable". Welcome to America, folks.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:09 | Link to Comment cjbosk
cjbosk's picture

FX-Abortion

Ryan is a dunce?  Really, who's your boy?  RP...Wow, that's a shocker, that's original.  When RP can buy a suit that fits, I'll have confidence that he can run a country.  You talk about Bush?  Really?  Because that's all you can say, you have nothing good to say about your boy, yes I said boy, Obummer...the punk that couldn't run a Dairy Queen, doubled food stamp usage over Bush's term, doubled the debt that it took 43 prior presidents to accumulate, his anti American energy policy that is bankrupting the country, his love for chair satan Uncle Ben, his morphing of big government, his stripping of our rights and using executive orders since Friday's were created...I'm exhausted.

Your reversion to JBB, Just Blame Bush rhetoric, is beyond disgusting, you've proven your ignorance in record time.

 

 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:27 | Link to Comment FXPortent
FXPortent's picture

Wow, way to pile on the vitrol and invective, without a kind introduction, might I add. However, I will keep this conversation civil.

 

First and foremost, it isn't Bush's fault in it's entireity, it takes two to tango, and Obama is his partner in all this mess.

 

Obama is a carbon copy of Bush at practically every level of the spectrum. Let's put aside rhetoric for now and actually look at what they have both done.

 

Obama has acted in everyway conceivable in which Bush would have reacted.

 

As for the Federal Reserve Chairman, he has acted the way any other chair man of a central bank would have done . Plain and simple, there is no need for archaic words and academic papers.

If you have anything to actually contribute to my side of the discussion, then please add it.

 

If you are just going to call me pejorative names and mock Paul's selection of suits, then be my guest, you are just making yourself look like an even bigger fool.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:37 | Link to Comment crawldaddy
crawldaddy's picture

NONE of them are on our side, once you get that fact in your head it all starts to make sense.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:13 | Link to Comment MinnesotaMD
MinnesotaMD's picture

I think he is sincere at trying to frame the argument. It's just that he is powerless. You think he is a calculating charlatan?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:02 | Link to Comment Atomizer
Atomizer's picture

European Union – Domino’s

 

It's all by socially engineered planning..

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:04 | Link to Comment EndTheMedia
EndTheMedia's picture

The illusion of choice is the hallmark of the fascist state. http://bit.ly/FS7JWg

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:05 | Link to Comment Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Are muppets people?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:08 | Link to Comment MinnesotaMD
MinnesotaMD's picture

Not to our overlords at GS.

Signed,

Scooter

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:18 | Link to Comment MinnesotaMD
MinnesotaMD's picture

When I interned at GS a dozen years ago they were people, but things changed one day in 2012. Me and Renee Zellweger bolted after doing a musical number with Gonzo and Dr. Teeth.

Greg Smith

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:05 | Link to Comment booboo
booboo's picture

I for one would like to see congress locked in a large room all armed with sharp"budget knives", really, I mean it, I get moist thinking about it.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:05 | Link to Comment fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

This whole article is a non event. It will get interesting around debt ceiling and downgrade time late in the fall.

Was there anything written on this site about the banks not stress testing a rise in interest rates? Schiff has been screaming about it all weekend.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:06 | Link to Comment MinnesotaMD
MinnesotaMD's picture

Judging by the comments, it is already over. It is therefore impossible to repay 16 trillion dollars, let alone total liabilities of over a hundred trillion. What happens after the SHFT? Why hasn't Obama and the elites who fund all this see the abyss for what it is? They can't have a workable plan out of destitution?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:09 | Link to Comment Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

Chapter 86 of the bankruptcy code.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:20 | Link to Comment Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

"Why hasn't Obama and the elites who fund all this see the abyss for what it is? They can't have a workable plan out of destitution?"

It has to do with Malignant Narcissism.
One of their most thrilling traits is they have not the wherewithal to know when to quit.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:49 | Link to Comment MinnesotaMD
MinnesotaMD's picture

I can't remember the term Hayek used for the malevolent leader who would come to power to fix things after the "planners" had failed in The Road to Serfdom". That's whose coming soon after this lot. No pant suit or Yale Law Degree with this SOB. He'll be a community organizer alright. Billy Ray Cyrus?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:01 | Link to Comment KK Tipton
KK Tipton's picture

Saul Alinsky:
"A *cough* community *cough* revolutionary organizer must shake up the prevailing patterns of their lives – agitate, create disenchantment and discontent with the current values, to produce, if not a passion for change, at least a passive, affirmative, non-challenging climate."
"A revolution without a prior reformation would collapse or become a totalitarian tyranny."

Of course Obama was his biggest fan.....and took this advice to heart.
Though...all he paid attention to was the part he (or his handlers) liked. The last sentence.

See any reform in the USSA?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:11 | Link to Comment g3h
g3h's picture

Giant tax cut and more spending?

Fantastic.  Exactly what this country needs now.

That's why I not just vote the Republicans.  I love the Republicans.

 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:14 | Link to Comment loveyajimbo
loveyajimbo's picture

Good program for shipping the remaining jobs to Bangladesh or wherever... the rest may work, if we default on 100% of the current debt and sell the state of NY to Israel.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:35 | Link to Comment victor82
victor82's picture

Why not? Then Netanyahu would turn the whole kit n' caboodle over to the Shas Party and the whole Gush Emunim crowd and move the Settlements to Long Island.

You couldn't mix milk and meat but your trash would get picked up on time. Better banking, too, I'll bet.

New York State Muslim community might declare an Intifada. Other than that, what's the downside? Other than yellow snow, that is?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:21 | Link to Comment UGrev
UGrev's picture

Yawn.. let me know when the income tax is completely disposed of, garbage collected and a new singleton created for a fair tax. 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:31 | Link to Comment Shizzmoney
Shizzmoney's picture

sooooooooooo....how much will my taxes be going up?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:55 | Link to Comment noob
noob's picture

...as much as it takes?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:33 | Link to Comment puck
puck's picture

Why do we intrest ourselves with garbldegook?

I say vote in all new members of congress that agree to term limits. limits end at point they don't obey tthe constitution, and hang em high or jail em across the board that voted for ndaa

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 02:01 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 The Puck in Australia, as an apprentice? That Puck that Impressed me with His Charts on MT-4?

   That Puck?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:34 | Link to Comment Tom Green Swedish
Tom Green Swedish's picture

Everybody knows Repuplicans are better than democrats with budgets.  Look at Republicans track record versus democrats.  Every single crap super in debt state is democratic or was democratic.  California, Illinois, New York / New Jersey, Michigan.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:56 | Link to Comment UGrev
UGrev's picture

The democRATS may be big spenders and the rethuglicans may be a bit more frugal about this, but they both want your money in their hot little  hands. If the democRATS cared about what you think, they'd hide it better. If the reTHUGlicans wanted to care, they'd dispose of the income tax and IRS, yet they push this patriotic to pay taxes bullshit that you suck up like the good little sheep that you are. 

Listen to me very closely.. they are the same. Get it? the same.. you want to make a difference? Write in Ron Paul, kiss the IRS good-bye and enjoy the benefits of your labor instead of having it STOLEN from you only to have it handed to the gov't and thusly slushed down to the welfare and entitlement purses where only a small % actually _need_ it and the vast majority have worked the system over on us. 

Thanks.. thanks for supporting the status quo.. 

ReTHUGlocRATS.. learn it. 

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 02:54 | Link to Comment Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

In states they don't get to handle defense, that's why

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:44 | Link to Comment AN0NYM0US
AN0NYM0US's picture

 

   666 is no longer alone
    He's getting out the marrow in your back bone
    And the seven trumpets blowing sweet rock and roll
    Gonna blow right down inside your soul
    Pythagoras with the looking glass reflects the full moon
    In blood, he's writing the lyrics of a brand new tune

 

SWEDEN GOES CASHLESS

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:46 | Link to Comment Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Congressman Ryan: you stole your idea from.....SNL Season 3, Episode 9. Take it away Steve Martin!

You.. can be a millionaire.. and never pay taxes! You can be a millionaire.. and never pay taxes! You say.. "Steve.. how can I be a millionaire.. and never pay taxes?" First.. get a million dollars. Now.. you say, "Steve.. what do I say to the tax man when he comes to my door and says, 'You.. have never paid taxes'?" Two simple words. Two simple words in the English language: "I forgot!" How many times do we let ourselves get into terrible situations because we don't say "I forgot"? Let's say you're on trial for armed robbery. You say to the judge, "I forgot armed robbery was illegal." Let's suppose he says back to you, "You have committed a foul crime. you have stolen hundreds and thousands of dollars from people at random, and you say, 'I forgot'?" Two simple words: Excuuuuuse me!!

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:50 | Link to Comment Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

 

 

What a bunch of horseshit.  These fucking cretins could care less about those of us who work for a paycheck.  They propose a tax bill they have no faith will pass?  Really Congressman.  Thanks for wasting our time and propagating the squander of your term in office.  Way to achieve greatness, Eddie Munster.

Should you decide to concern yourself with a thriving middle class, look us up.  We have plenty of ideas and it won't be nearly as demeaning as an ALEC or Bohemian grove junk.

C'mon Eddie, show that you can relate.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:35 | Link to Comment Yes_Questions
Yes_Questions's picture

 

 

And while I am at it:  Mr. President: nice wet kiss to the MIC on Friday night. What else are we supposed to make this?

Water?  Secretary of Defense?

 

Really?

 

Ship of Fools!

 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:54 | Link to Comment El Gordo
El Gordo's picture

Corporations don't pay taxes.  Every tax dollar forwarded by Walmart to some political subdivision was shelled out of some consumers pocket - the consumer actually pays the taxes, not the corporation.  Foreign assets, if allowed to be repatriated and reinvested domestically, could revitalize this country like never seen before (assuming we has the available energy reources to support the growth).  Those G-men are supposed to be working for me, not the other way around.  Solid infrastructure and national defense are valid government functions - light bulb and toilet flow management are not.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 21:59 | Link to Comment 847328_3527
847328_3527's picture

lemme guess what the two brackets will be:

1. corporate taxes zero;

2. Middle Class taxes 75%.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:01 | Link to Comment gwar5
gwar5's picture

Like Paul Ryan, unfortunately, he's 20 years too late. I'd like to get rid of the income tax, and the IRS, and go with just a VAT. The deficit spending is a sealth surcharging tax, stop the spending!

 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:04 | Link to Comment hellas4life
hellas4life's picture

So mr ryan what are you going to do about this spending? https://www.warresisters.org/content/fy2012-wrl-pie-chart-flyer-where-yo... and never forget Iraq cost 4.5 trillion at the low end estimate or about 25% of our entire debt through 2019.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:19 | Link to Comment Psquared
Psquared's picture

Frankly, I am more worried by the proposal gaining bipartisan support that would further deregulate the securities industry. The argument being made is that all these silly SEC reporting requirements are just too onerous and prevent US companies from ripping people off .... sorry, making money.

They even have the gall to name it, the "JOBS Bill."

http://baselinescenario.com/2012/03/19/a-colossal-mistake-of-historic-pr...

 

 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:23 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I realize this is a tax issue. Does anyone actually think 10's at ( 3%) would be a good thing? Consumer debt and student loans?

 Banks need ( drug induced central bank lending), just to survive. How much tax revenue would higher bond yields generate?

  Things are slowing down over here in Asia. The markets are thinning out, and credit is getting more expensive.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:28 | Link to Comment rsnoble
rsnoble's picture

I'm not going to read this article. Something about the republicans.  I pretty much thought the readers off this blog were past the 2 party bullshit.  Gotta a problem with the repukes? I'll agree but ill also show the problem with the jackass dems.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:32 | Link to Comment billwilson
billwilson's picture

Republican Plan in the face of huge deficits:

 

Cut taxes ... don't touch the military.

 

That's not a plan. That's just more of the same that got us into this mess.

 

 

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 01:05 | Link to Comment dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

as i've said, the dems and repubs are the bratty children fighting at the kiddie table for hotdogs and mac and cheese while the bankers sit for the feast

one side of the table screams get rid of the hotdogs so we can have more mac and cheese.. no!!!  throw out that slime and get more hot dogs!!

 

wahahhh!!

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:36 | Link to Comment bugs_
bugs_'s picture

the real deal is the scrapping of AMT.  AMT is a time bomb under both D's and R's.  every year they have tto try to paste some additional length of fuse between the fire and the bomb.  so far so good.  the problem is the fuse burns faster and faster.  ponziceleration.

as with all government great ideas they start out great but eventually all turn in to destructors of one form or another.

expect to see that thought - the scrapping of AMT - reappear in a more "bipartisan" bill.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:37 | Link to Comment lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

Trickle-down economics.

Bernanke (wealth effect) and Paul Ryan.

You know who wins:Super Pacs and the billionaires who fund them.

Crony Capitalism rocks.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:51 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Reality!  BAC up 100% [5 dollars-10dollars], since last October?  AAPL $ 2.65 on  [600.00] stock? A paltry 1/2 of 1% dividend?

  Shit I'll buy some "OXY" and "Verizon" on the dip!  We need to communicate when our " Horses run out of Oats"!

 

 And the rest of the western world forgot to mention that mining tax " Julia Gillard' (aus) passed. perhaps that is sinking into the Asian trade? If the RBA was smart they would have lowered rates 25 basis points.  They have plenty of wiggle room.

  I sold the fact!

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:51 | Link to Comment non_anon
non_anon's picture

it used to be called "a day late and a dollar short" ,but now, that doesn't fit the current fine mess they've gotten us into.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 02:50 | Link to Comment Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

A decade late and 10 trillion short?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:55 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

What budget?

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 22:57 | Link to Comment Pairadimes
Pairadimes's picture

This is like two fleas arguing over which direction the dog should go next. In case you guys have missed the last several decades, tax policy has been neutered for its impact on revenue generation and government behavior.

Federal tax revenues have been hovering around 18% of GDP for a long time, regardless of some pretty significant changes in tax policy in the interim. The problem we have now is an unholy alliance between institutional politicians and their financiers at the Fed, who have almost completely decoupled revenue and expense at the federal level. Until this issue is dealt with, the impact of new strategies in taxation will be purely academic, as more and more of the dwindling base of taxpayers realize they are being farmed, and tax avoidance goes mainstream, ala Greece.

The only policy change that might bend the curve is one which greatly increases the percentage of earners with a federal income tax liability, and that seems as likely as Cheney and Obama going hunting together.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 05:50 | Link to Comment Clashfan
Clashfan's picture

Um, Cheney and I'llbombya are related. Lynne even admitted it publicly.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:07 | Link to Comment Joaquin Menendez
Joaquin Menendez's picture

There is something I don't understand.  The 1% are going to need a military to protect them from the 99%.  How is running the country into the ground going to accomplish that?   What? Hire mercenaries?  Wait, NEVERMIND.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:11 | Link to Comment bankruptcylawyer
bankruptcylawyer's picture

i SUPPORT THIS MOTHER OF ALL SELLOUTS. IT'S TIME TO TAKE THE PLUNGE . hold your balls , cover your nose, and jump into the end. 

 

taxes are irrelevant. soon enough, there will be massive inability by people to pay taxes, more 'forced' tax cheating as small businesses and contractors will be forced to 'cheat' more to feed themselves and their familes and workers----

leading to , tax protests in large scale and FINALLY a fucking AAA level default. embrace the default. have some balls.  

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:13 | Link to Comment atomicwasted
atomicwasted's picture

Let's burn this bitch down.  Spend it all, max it out, go for broke.  The only way to fix the system is to collapse it and build an actual free society out of the wreckage.  There's no other reset button.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:43 | Link to Comment hangemhigh77
hangemhigh77's picture

That's right. The BEST thing that could happen for the PEOPLE of this country is for the power base of the criminals to collapse. Collapse the dollar buy silver and gold and trade in them or barter. Try to buy local and barter for services and try not to use the dollar.  Collapse the power base of the elite scum. I don't know why everything is underlined but it looks cool.

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:12 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

after all America (and everyone else, everywhere) has proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that taking pain in the short-term, in order to avoid a complete catastrophe in the longer-term, is not only unacceptable, it is inconceivable.

When are TDs gonna realize it's not about taking the pain and doing the right thing?  

It's about looting America.   That's what Wall Street bankers are doing, looting the nation and everybody in it.

It's not "kicking the can" either.  They know America will never recover.   Their looting will destroy America, they know it, and they don't care.

"Kicking the can" infers they'll be forced to "do the right thing" somewhere down the road, or ther'll be some sort of "systemic reset" beyond their control.

Sorry, it ain't gonna happen.  Ever. 

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:39 | Link to Comment hangemhigh77
hangemhigh77's picture

It's not conveluted enough. The "lawmakers" need to make up "laws" that are either so friggin preposterous when you hear of them you say. "what IDIOT thought THAT BULLSHIT up" or so conveluted that Einstein couldn't understand it for the simple reason that it makes no sense at al and when people hear of it they just say, "What the FUCK are these IDIOTS talking about?"  So in the spirit of Ron Paul who has a SIMPLE tax plan which consists of GETTING FUCKING RID of taxes I say BRAVO!!!!!!!!!!!!  No taxes? No Armies.  No taxes? No Warren Buffrats.  No Taxes? No bankster thieving scum bloodsucking shit assclowns.  No taxes? No insider BULLSHIT.  No taxes? Politicians work for US MOTHERFUCKER.  No taxes? No more BULLSHIT.  

Mon, 03/19/2012 - 23:54 | Link to Comment the 300000000th...
the 300000000th percent's picture

I think getting rid of Amylmethyltriptamine(AMT) is a bad idea

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 00:00 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

I think we have a NEW Syl/lable King. ?

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 00:50 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 What ever happened to " No cut's in line"? /sarc

  A lot of people, " have a lot to say" Tyler!  +1

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 01:03 | Link to Comment Lady Heather...UNCLE
Lady Heather...UNCLE's picture

testing

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 01:51 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Zero Hedge has (a) " Mining Tax".  I'll help ya out! Everyone will!

   HOW?

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 01:57 | Link to Comment SilverDoctors
SilverDoctors's picture
The Fix Is In....
ABC Posted the Results of Tuesday's GOP Primary...MONDAY NIGHT!!!

Screen shot: http://silverdoctors.blogspot.com/2012/03/abc-posts-results-of-tuesdays-gop.html

And we thought the BBC was off their game for reporting Tower 7's collapse 14 minutes early...

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 02:16 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I CAN'T Imagine Tyler tearing the Beauty of this ( Group of disfunctional Idiots)

    Apart! It's A Titanic ( DEUX) in the making!   Saving Sarah!

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 05:22 | Link to Comment lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Would be interesting to see a comparaison between today's tax laws and the Ryan plan... 2 years down the road on the deficit and debt numbers...

I bet with the Ryan plan, the US would break 2 trillion deficit easy.

And as expected :

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20120319/DEFREG02/303190008/U-S-Senat...|newswell|text|World%20News|p

U.S. Senate Committee Asks Pentagon to Delay Budget Actions

The leaders of the U.S. Senate Armed Services Committee have asked Defense Secretary Leon Panetta not to implement any reductions to the military until the congressional defense committees have the opportunity to respond to the Pentagon’s 2013 budget request.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 06:40 | Link to Comment Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 The Liberals are out this evening. Junks abound.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 06:58 | Link to Comment Sathington Willougby
Sathington Willougby's picture

 

My candidate will end the IRS and cut 1 trillion from the budget the first year.

I've seen what the others will do, put a silly brand on big govt.

 

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 07:49 | Link to Comment writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

My candidate will cut ALL taxation and undergo a massive programme of Government stimulus spending - oh and he will replace raindrops with marshmellows and water in rivers with chocolate.

Can I count on your vote?

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 19:08 | Link to Comment GoinFawr
GoinFawr's picture

They must have already tried that river thing in England; have you ever seen the Thames?

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 07:01 | Link to Comment BlankfeinDiamond
BlankfeinDiamond's picture

I'm assuming the Repubs want to tax the poor and middle class at 25% and the rich at 10%.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 07:04 | Link to Comment Heroic Couplet
Heroic Couplet's picture

What would this do to the deficit? Send it higher. LOL. If corporations want no taxes in the US, then they need to cease using the Federal Aviation Authority, the Federal Communication Commission. Both paid for with taxes. Also, stay off the interstates, the port authorities, stay off the bridges, and stay away from hospitals. All paid for with federal taxes.

Corporations and their employees can use state roads and carrier pigeons. Be 12th century.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 07:47 | Link to Comment writingsonthewall
writingsonthewall's picture

This is merely designed to encourage fools to vote for a dream of Eden which can never be achieved.

 

...by the time the electorate works it out - we'll be in office and we can simply blame "the last guy" - or "Europe" - or "unforseen economic difficulties" on our u-turn.

 

Find me an American who won't vote for less tax, less Government and no impact anywhere else on their lives.

 

You are of course 100% correct, these "I did it all on my own" entrepeneurs who are paraded by the Republican party as some sort of aspirational figures - are in fact blind (and ignorant) to the help they DO get from Government.

 

Try starting a business in Iraq and see what 'value' you get from security and reliability in the US from taxation.

 

Maybe we should experiment - remove all public spending for a year and see how many businesses go pop.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 07:58 | Link to Comment Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

Can they stop paying the gas tax, and all the other taxes that were instituted to pay for those things you mentioned, not the income tax? You know that people pay a fee AKA taxes to use the airports and the FAA, right? Since you made all those bullshit statements I assumed you were more than stupid, but I guess not. You don't pay taxes on your telephone bill, internet bill, cable or satellite bill if you have one? You are so stupid you don't see the difference between usage fees [taxes] and income tax? I have the fire department here in my hick town. Guess what, dumb ass, if there was no FedGov and no income tax, I still would be paying for it. Same with the road outside my door. Or can I have back all those fucking taxes I paid over the decades that were not income tax that were to fund those things you mentioned?

 

Try thinking and understanding reality. It's refreshing.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 08:05 | Link to Comment Moe Howard
Moe Howard's picture

You forgot another thing: Hospitals paid for with Federal Income Tax? Really? Ever notice the names on those fucking hospitals? The good ones all have some fucking nasty evil religon attached to their name, why would that be in can't have the ten commandments America? Go to the "taxes" hospital, please, like fucking Cook County - you will die in the waiting room.

Buy or beg a clue, dummy.

 

Oh there is a "Federal" Hospital. The fucking VA. Every been treated there? Got HIV yet? Malpractice will be the least of your worries, the main thing is to not catch aids or something else from the substandard hygiene and help. There is a "benefit", however, those vets being treated there won't be on the VA disability pension for very long, you can't collect when you are dead.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 07:51 | Link to Comment highwaytoserfdom
highwaytoserfdom's picture

Ridiculous tinkering around the edges. The problem is the obstruction of free markets. The currency of China is going to replace the dollar.. ANYONE THAT VOTES FOR A SENATOR OR PAST SENATOR is committing a grave mistake. The Federal Reserve Transparency Act of 2009 (H.R. 1207) had 319 cosponsors (73%), and was referred to the corresponding Senate bill was killed by corrupt Senators owned by K Street. The senate had 32 sponsors ( some Class II for elections).. Many of the people that killed the bill supported the FED and promoted the dark pools of money in the usury sectors.

Tax Justice Network estimates that offshore tax havens shielded over $255 billion in global tax revenue in 2006, a number roughly equal to a third of India's overall GDP.

We have a systemic problem with no growth http://www.usdebtclock.org/ .

It was amazing for me to hear Bernake talk of his son's $450,000 medical school bills and not be concerned with mortgaging the future for the insolvent TBTF's.  

 

lysander spooner rothschilds hits it about right....   

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:55 | Link to Comment swani
swani's picture

 

This is just well orchestrated breakfast fodder for the sheeple. These kinds of bills, constantly publicized but never passed, are the kinds of non-actions that make Republicans look fiscally responsible to their brainwashed constituents, and used by the Democrats, to paint the Republicans as the lap dogs of the big bad corporations to their own brainwashed constituents.

This is nothing more than that another divide and conquer sheeple circus strategy to be played out by the complicit media.

While this and stories like Rush Limbaugh's slut comment, or Bill Maher's anti-Christian rhetoric, get unlimited airtime, both parties will keep spending on back door Bail Outs, starting endless wars for the enrichment of the Robber Barons, they'll keep passing government mandated market share for Big Pharma under the guise of health care initiatives, they will continue to enact more cumbersome regulations that create nothing but loopholes and competitive advantage for the same Robber Barons while shackling everyone else with the cost of compliance, and no banker will go to jail for stealing innocent people's property, even when this property was stolen in front of the entire country.

I'd like to hear from the ranchers and farmers that have been wiped out by MF Global or put out of business by the FDA and Monsanto, not from a woman who can't afford bithcontrol, but this will never happen. This woman and every other like her, is only chosen because they know that their 'issue', whatever it is, will divide the country. They know this, because they have pre-programmed the entire country to be divided on these very 'issues', then they roll out the Rush Limbaughs, the Bill Mahers, to fuel the division and enrage the populace. Works like a charm.

They must laugh at how well the formula works. They must laugh at how easy it is to get everyone fighting and looking at the wrong thing for weeks, months, years.  

The media, in my opinion, is the Robber Barons' and their Puppet Politicians' most powerful weapon against We the People, it is more powerful than standing armies or WMD, as without the media conglomerates' shaping of public opinion and keeping of the nation's dialogue under complete control, the Robber Barons and their Puppets would lose 90% of their power over the American people.

Luckily, the majority of the people will eventually wake up that they are being lied to, and then, they will turn off completely, like any self respecting person does when they find out that they have been betrayed and manipulated by a person they once trusted, and when that happens, it will be a very difficult battle to regain the trust of the people, certainly not using the same methods.

It's clear that this awakening is happening right now, as people from all walks of life are becoming aware of and fed up with the lies and the spin. I have never seen it this way before, everyone is talking about the media being full of shit, not just FOX or MSNBC, people from both sides are fed up with their own preferred networks. I think it was the lack of coverage of the NDAA, or ACTA, maybe it was MF Global, or the Foreclosure Settlement, or B of A transferring the European exposure on to the tax payers, maybe it was Baxter releasing 73 kilos of live avian flu mixed in with human flu vaccine to 18 distributors in Europe and the fact that no one, except the Toronto Sun, Natural News, and small Austrian newspapers reported it.  I don't know what represented the last straw for people, but alot of people are waking up at the same time.

Oh oh. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

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