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Retirement Reality Full Frontal: Why Every 30 Year Old Must Risk It All To Be Able To Retire

Tyler Durden's picture


Exceptionally low interest rates are bad for banks, insurers, and, more generically, anyone wishing to save money. Of the three, it’s the situation of the savers that is most untenable. In particular, Citi notes in a recent report, those wishing to retire at 65 or thereabouts are in for a nasty surprise when they start to run the numbers.


Citi: US Credit Outlook

Given that real yields are negative for Treasury bonds inside of 20-years, the steady stream of inflows into investment grade bond fund that hold a mixture of government, agency, and high grade corporate securities, will simply fail to return an adequate rate of return commensurate with the current savings rates of most retirement savers. What savers need to do is find higher asset returns or increase their personal savings rate.


And therein lies the crux of the problem facing the central banks.


Ideally, the Fed and ECB want to encourage investors to buy riskier assets and corporates to borrow more with the hope being that wealth effects, corporate risk taking, and Keynes’ animal spirits will revive the economy.


But so far the US has failed to respond to Fed’s treatment plan and the inflows into bond funds continue unabated while corporate net issuance is nonplused. One presumes investors are wary of returning to an asset class, like equities, that performed so miserably over the last decade amid global growth concerns.


But an unintended consequence to resisting the Fed is that the average retirement saver will need to double their rate of savings in order to be able to retire even five years later than originally planned. If and when that sort of analysis enters into the collective consciousness of the typical American, the economic impact is likely to be grim.


As we’ve seen in the UK, higher savings rates lead to lower consumption, a decline in corporate profits, and recession.


Source: Citi


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Wed, 09/05/2012 - 20:56 | 2766543 PrintingPress
PrintingPress's picture


Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:44 | 2766647 Zer0head
Zer0head's picture

down under she makes $2 million every hour  (

view this impassioned video to those in the land of Oz 'bout opportunities on the dark continent where $2/day has you livin' the good life

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:53 | 2766680 erg
erg's picture

I hope to at least croak during a break period. That way I don't possibly muck-up some machine.

Ever the considerate guy am I.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 23:21 | 2766887 Rincewind
Rincewind's picture

Now that video made me sick.

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 00:10 | 2766982 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Screw iron ore.

Gold bitchez!

(I can't believe I got to say it first on this thread. My night is made.)

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:45 | 2766663 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Here's the balancing act the corrupt central bankers are trying to pull off:


In order to prop up the massive number of de facto insolvent financial institutions that now exist in zombie form (because even low interest fiat loans in massive quantity & the ability to mark their toxic assets to fantasy levels is not sufficient a lifeline given that their traditional models for reaping profits are broken), central banksters need to force private sector deleveraging while prompting public sector consumption (as incredibly wasteful, inefficient & ultimately destructive as it is).

Hence QE & Twist, coupled with ZIRP, & then NIRP. This taxes savers, while encouraging even insolvent governments to borrow given artificially low interest rates, which allows them to temporarily deny the reality of their shockingly horrible financial condition.

At the same time, private sector consumption is suppressed, and massive wealth is transferred to entities and individuals having businesses that intersect with government spending, along with financial institutions (that just happen to own the politicians, literally).

Bernanke, Congress & the Executive Branch not only do not care that private sector consumption and organic economic activity is being thwarted by current monetary policy as run by the Federal Reserve, they're all complicit in wanting to perpetuate this trend, as those who really call the shots are the lenders to governments, and ultimately have a superior lien on all the assets of nations.

If Americans & Germans need to deleverage and adjust their living standards down many notches as the price that must be paid in order for The Money Masters that own "democratic governments" to get their pound of flesh, and be nursed from the teat of the state, then so be it....

Capitalism is truly dead. 

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 01:36 | 2767108 Muppet of the U...
Muppet of the Universe's picture

WOW. That was just amazing.  Well written and perfect.  We truly are in quite the predicament...  & Ben Bernanke is that tightrope master, that must balance inflation versus asking the muppets to work harder for less.    It is truly an odd time to be alive...  & quite mind boggling that this is still how the game works... 

I dedicate this to all the hardworking shmucks that are awake and trapped in this shitstorm from Oz:

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 06:06 | 2767367 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

pigs at the trough, that is Govt in a nutshell

the health of the real economy, that pays all the bills, has no muscle in this parasite-fest we call democratic Govt

the sooner everyone wakes up to what Govt really is, and not what it claims to be, the better

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 06:43 | 2767397 GCT
GCT's picture

Spot on Truth! +1    

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 07:15 | 2767422 ebear
ebear's picture

These all-powerful financial institutions.  How many divisions do they have?

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 07:43 | 2767447 rbg81
rbg81's picture

But an unintended consequence to resisting the Fed is that the average retirement saver will need to double their rate of savings in order to be able to retire even five years later than originally planned.

Uh, let's get real.  There is no way Joe/Jane Sixpack is going to double their average retirement savings.  Most Americans save nothing.  They can't--they're too busy treading water just to pay their bills.  In fact, they are deep in debt trying desperately to maintain their lifestyle.  I make more than I ever imagined but barely save any $$ after bills and taxes.  Honestly can't imagine how someone making $50K/year is saving jack squat. 

Let's face it:  ZIRP (NIRP) is a backdoor tax on savers.  Because savers are responsible people who won't riot (at least not yet), they are the sacrificial lambs who will take it in the shorts.  The whole point is to do whatever is necessary to keep Government deficit spending affordable.  That's true in Europe and true here.  At this point things are so screwed that if the Government entitlement pump ever misses a beat, half the population will riot.  You see these people at Walmart, wearing cheap t-shirts, sporting beer bellies, waving their EBT cards and abusing the cashiers.  They are the real Zombies--its all Bernake can do to keep the Zombie Apocalypse at bay.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 23:13 | 2766872 aint no fortuna...
aint no fortunate son's picture

Yep, right out to max risk where the TBTJ's are swimming in a school waiting for the feeding frenzy

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 23:54 | 2766953 Freddie
Freddie's picture

There are many good for 30 year olds.  Phil Falcone's hedge fund - he has a lovely "trophy" wife.

Apple stock - it always goes up - buy the dip.

Facebook - everyone uses it.  


The list goes on and on.  Also historically the stock market ALWAYS goes up 8 to 9% over the long term.  The S&P 500 index is great for that.

Also Berkshire Hathway with the Omaha sage and friend of Becky Quick.

Just stay away from those barbaric relics (metals).

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 09:28 | 2767824 midtowng
midtowng's picture

Unintended consequences from monetary policy. Not being able to get a free lunch. Who could have thought of that?

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 18:44 | 2769727 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

Who said that saving was about making money? Since Gold, Silver and commodities are joined at the hip, you do not need to make money but store value for future consumption that is it. The ~yield~ is a short term bribe to keep accepting the fiat, no more no less. Hoarding dishoarding as Fullarton menioned along with privated market dictated interest rates, are the way to regulate credit.


Wed, 09/05/2012 - 20:58 | 2766550 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

fuck citi die bitchez

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 06:45 | 2767395 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

beautifully put

i'm cryin  ;,)))))

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 20:59 | 2766554 nmewn
nmewn's picture

They call me Machine Gun Kelly.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:51 | 2766834 Muppet of the U...
Muppet of the Universe's picture

That's what Citi calls their zero-sum, front running, HFT bots.

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 06:51 | 2767404 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I see lots of geriatric gangs in our future ;-)

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 20:58 | 2766555 Xibalba
Xibalba's picture

Why would central bankers want slave labor..I mean, the middle class, to be able to retire? Doesn't that defeat the whole point of central banking, and usury in general?

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 05:13 | 2767330 intric8
intric8's picture

Sucks to be us

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 06:49 | 2767403 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

we're the suckers, we allow it without much of a whimper

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 20:59 | 2766557 bigwavedave
bigwavedave's picture

I might start my Cancel Christmas campaign earlier this year.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:17 | 2766595 oddjob
oddjob's picture

Grinch come early.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:00 | 2766558 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

this article mistakenly seems to think central banks give a flyin fuck about the avg 30 year old. as a 35yr old my plan is to own phyz and wait till the whole thing collapses. put that plan in your retirement calculator.

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 02:29 | 2766775 Dr Benway
Dr Benway's picture

They want to force everyone to join the ponzi scam, that way we are all culpable and noone will speak out as we feast on our children and the unborn.

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 00:09 | 2766981 FiatGold
FiatGold's picture

Phyz is for real!

Ounce of silver in my hand is not a promise to pay but proof I have been paid in full.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:02 | 2766560 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

Most who buy silver will be able to retire next year no matter how old they are.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:06 | 2766729 Zgangsta
Zgangsta's picture

How many Hawaiian islands will an ounce get me?

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:15 | 2766751's picture

How about a nice Hawaiian Punch?

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:20 | 2766767 vintageyz
vintageyz's picture

Or, how many ounces did President Choom buy in Hawaii?

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:23 | 2766773 mademesmile
mademesmile's picture

Specifically, how many ounces do you think it will take for the average family living on $40K a year?

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:41 | 2766814 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

40 ounces / year

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 23:14 | 2766875 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



I'm surprised how many think they can weather the coming calamity merely by holding PMs while the currency collapses.

If you're out on 500 acres, nobody around for a mile or so, you're stocked up, big garden, truly self sufficient, you might do ok for a while.

But everywhere people are bunched up together it's gonna be anarchy.   Anyone with food, water, electricity, etc, is gonna be assaulted by people wanting those things, and they may be armed just like you are.

It won't get that bad you say?

Maybe not.  Maybe the military will stage a coup, take over the government, arrest the bankers, stop the currency destruction before it gets that bad.

It's the only hope we have.  If the military doesn't do it, we're fucked.


Wed, 09/05/2012 - 23:23 | 2766892 TheSilverJournal
TheSilverJournal's picture

How about nobody takes over the government and we just change it. Cut the Federal Government by 90% and we'll make it.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 23:28 | 2766909 cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture



Wonderful idea.  What's your plan?

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 10:38 | 2768115 Waffen
Waffen's picture

The only way to change anything is by returning the gun to politics.

The military like our government is controlled by Israel so I don't see how a military coup will solve anything. We live in an artificial society of multi culturalism and multiracialism only possible do to our artificially strong fiat dollar. When things collapse the parasitic classes will not just change their ways, there will be lots of violence and destruction.

Our only hope is for balkanization and for certain areas to be able to remove the parasitic classes from their midst and to start over. This of course goes against the plan of zionists so it's a long shot, but it's our only hope of not all being global peasants and slaves to the global Zionist anti human scum at the top.

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 00:06 | 2766973 Freddie
Freddie's picture

The military, joint chiefs, Pentagon kissed Mullah Choom's arse for the past 3+ years.  As long as they get new drones and other BS - they will go along. 

They all want cushy gigs at defense contractors.  No one in the USA shithole will stand up for The Constitution.  The sheep/serfs who watch TV and Hollywood's crap are totally brainwashed.  If you watch it you enable them sheep.  

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 07:45 | 2767476 rbg81
rbg81's picture

No taxation without representation was the rallying cry on which this country was founded.  Problem is that the flipside needs to be true as well.  If you don't pay net positive taxes (e.g., more in taxes than you get in Government benefits) you shouldn't be allowed to vote--period. If this policy were instituted, our economic problems would be solved very quickly.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:02 | 2766561 docj
docj's picture

I'm perhaps fortunate that I ride a desk for a living - I can probably do it (assuming my mind doesn't go to mush first) until I literally am pushed out of my office feet first. Because I hear people talking about this "retirement" thing and I honestly have no idea what they're talking about.

So yes, another unintended (or perhaps perfectly intended) consequence of Benron and company "saving the world" was to dork every single prudent saver in the world up the pooper with a pineapple, sideways. Thanks, Benny. You're a prince.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:47 | 2766676 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

   I hear people talking about this "retirement" thing and I honestly have no idea what they're talking about.

Some folks are really committed to cashing bad checks.  They'll keep trying forever.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:04 | 2766566 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

Why save for retirement? It will get vaporized anyway.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:58 | 2766708 JackT
JackT's picture

Why save for retirement when no else is. Ask around and cringe at each blank look you get.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:11 | 2766740 JackT
JackT's picture

Here's another one...

Why save for retirement when you can buy baby boomer assets for pennies on the dollar when they begin to liquidate.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:31 | 2766788 aerojet
aerojet's picture

I don't need their crap, I need a savings I can depend on in case someone in my family gets sick.  I'd also like to educate my two children just in case it helps them somehow. 

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:29 | 2767267 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

Educating your kids doesn't cost a dime.  A library card and an internet connection as well as a good pair of walking shoes should do the trick.  If you want to pay some schmuck from NYU to brainwash your kid, well, that you'll have to pay for.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:32 | 2766790 aerojet
aerojet's picture

It's not for retirement--it's for a "rainy day."

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 00:42 | 2767018 Bunga Bunga
Bunga Bunga's picture

... will get corzined before the "rainy day".

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:06 | 2766570 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

It's a simple spreadsheet exercise.  Just put in 1% for an interest rate.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:07 | 2766573 mccoyspace
mccoyspace's picture

The Paradox of Thrift.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:37 | 2766657 Midas
Midas's picture

Is it a paradox when everything is made in China?  And one more question for anyone, would retirement look possible if the 30 year old cancelled the iphone and spent an equivalent amount on silver every month?

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:08 | 2766574 mccoyspace
mccoyspace's picture


Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:22 | 2766575 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Ahhh.... The boiling frog.

When I was in my teens gas at $1 was expensive (I'm in my late 20's). However, the generation of drivers getting their licenses today think $3.50 or $4.50 is normal.

So, while the baby boomer generation considers 65/66 as "retirement age" the age at which those "retire" for future generations will be much higher and that will become the norm, or perhaps no retirement at all. Who is going to pay all the welfare recipients in their 20's when I am 65 and who is going to pay the retirement benefits of my generation? Because it's not looking like current 20 year olds can take care of themselves now (16.4% unemployed)

To better elucidate this point, just 100 years ago the Federal Income Tax was unfathomable. Have you all not accepted it as "normal"?

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:23 | 2766616 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

You are such an optimist, I see over 7 billion "unfunded liabilities" walking around.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:26 | 2766630 centerline
centerline's picture

Some hypertiger stuff there.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:04 | 2766725 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

+1 for the hypertiger reference. OLD SKOOL.

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 01:39 | 2766904 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

A tribute to hypertiger:



"Lay back & enjoy the coming mind rape."

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:37 | 2766656 xtop23
xtop23's picture

Nothing to see here. 

Lots of upcoming service sector jobs for Octogenarians when the helicopters begin strafing the countryside with fresh FRN'S.

They'll only have to pull the proposed 6 day Greek work week and ..... BAMMM, the joys of retirement when you tick 3 digits.


Go long artificial hips anyone?



Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:09 | 2766578 fourchan
fourchan's picture

i am the non federal reserve, and i do have a system.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:15 | 2766580 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Two things, first, if you love what you do and make great mony doing it, why would you ever retire? Second, when there is no rule of law, if you can't touch or physically defend the asset, you don't "own" it much less should you expect any kind or return. Bloody sheep.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:28 | 2766784 aerojet
aerojet's picture

You retire because you contract an illness or other debilitating disease.  You retire because as you get old, your brain just isn't as sharp as it was anymore.  That doesn't mean you're useless, but it does mean if you think you're going to be working on complex problems late into life, you're likely wrong about that. 

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 01:59 | 2767144 Totentänzerlied
Totentänzerlied's picture

if you love what you do and make great mony doing it "in the merry old land of Oz!" 

Not only is this rare, but in any economy not built on fully renewable unicorn dust and double-rainbows, it must be the exception and not the rule.

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:34 | 2767274 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

I totally get what you're saying but my only hobby is sitting on a porch with a cool breeze in the air listen to wind wisping through birch trees (on a full stomach.)  I hate having to go anywhere, anytime for any reason that doesn't involve those above activities.  I will work until I don't HAVE to.  Luckily, as I toil away until that time, these twit central planners in DC are making it easier and easier for the contrarian investor.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:12 | 2766583 Fedophile
Fedophile's picture

They admit gold is real money.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:18 | 2766596 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Yes and what they can't purchase they will try to steal. End the damn Fed already.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:14 | 2766586 Jason T
Jason T's picture

Own your own home outright, build your own garden to grow your own food, own solar panels for your electricity, buy them LED light bulbs that last 25 years when you hit 60, own a new car and take good care of it, own your own tools, burn wood for heat... and don't get obese.

Learn skill like how to make your own bread, pizza dough and so forth.  

$1000 a month from SS can then go a very long way Vs having shit loads of bills to pay.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 23:18 | 2766881 Heyoka Bianco
Heyoka Bianco's picture

Put up a big sign saying "One Stop Shopping For Hungry Angry Mobs" . . .


Is that new car going to run on wood or pizza dough?

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 23:28 | 2766902 piceridu
piceridu's picture

Own your own home "outright" really means you're paying a lifetime of rent to your state via property tax. After you make that last mortgage payment, try stop paying property tax and see what happens. Your landlord will come serve you some very nasty papers. Now try putting solar panels on your "owned outright" home without paying for permisssion then try hooking your collectors into the grid. By the way, if you upgrade your "owned outright" home, your "rent" to your landlord goes up without any say.

After you've done all those wonderful improvements, try growing your own vegetables and fruits and sell the excess of your wonderful labor of love to your neighbors. Another knock at your door...this time the organic food police with guns drawn...and last but certainly not least, Social Security checks? HAHAHAHAHAHA

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 00:12 | 2766986 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Sad but true. No one owns anything anywhere.  Your home is an endless liability of all sorts of taxes and regulations.   Constant taxes to pay for gold plated pensions for a bunch of illiterate fat asses in local govt/union/mafia.

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:36 | 2767276 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

So....don't own a house outright?

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:19 | 2766602 centerline
centerline's picture

sadly, that is more of a plan than I have.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:16 | 2766594 Hulk
Hulk's picture

As I see it, with interest rates negative, if I maintain a negative balance in my account of two million bucks, I ought to be able to retire in 3 years...

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:17 | 2766597 eugene12
eugene12's picture

I find articles like this simply stupid as they are more appropriate for science fiction. The "averag joe" out here is making in the vicinity of 50K a yr with 25% making 25K or less.  He/she can't even afford the average house let alone save 10 or 20% of their income for retirement.  I keep wondering when the "average" writer of this nonsense is going to start writing reality articles.  Everything I read about investing, saving, etc is, obviously, written by some one so far removed from the "average joe" that the writer hasn't a clue.  You folks are as out of touch with the real world of the "average joe" as the politicians. 

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:24 | 2766623 centerline
centerline's picture

Been that way ever since I started paying attention to the bullshit (a long time ago).  Took me awhile to realize that it was bullshit though.  Amazes me that folks still try to sell the snake oil.  Reality is that reality is about implode.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 23:33 | 2766917 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture



Wage Statistics Paint a Bleak Picture for Working America
  • Submitted by Robert Oak on Wed, 09/05/2012 - 05:18

"Most economists and the press look at personal income to think about America and wages. But there is another set of statistics which paints an even more stark picture. The social security administration publishes wage data, the last year available is 2010. While the average wage was $39,959.30, 66.2% of wage earners make less than this amount The median wage is $26,363.55. That means 50% of all wage earners in the United States earned less than $26,363.55 annually. That's poor."

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:29 | 2766638 docj
docj's picture

The problem is that said "averag joe" thinks he or she is entitled, and is going to be able, to "retire" at 65 (or 55, if they're on a government payroll of some sort) and be able to maintain their pre-retirement lifestyle. Forever. Literally.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:51 | 2766681 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

eugene, You have clearly hit the nail on the head! These article writers like the one above are detatched from reality on the street. A good portion of American workers hope only to meet this months bills and pray to god they don't get sick. Save 20-25% for retirement?

The savers are the select upper middle class with money left over after monthly expenses. The number of people like this is shrinking every year. Sure, they exist but fewer and fewer are in that income bracket.

Even when I had a fairly good income, I was hard pressed to get 10% into savings for retirement. The idea that service sector workers and deeply in debt new college graduates are saving 25% for retiement in clueless dribble from out of touch ass clowns.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:45 | 2766822 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

way to keep it real

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:50 | 2766688 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

How are financial advisors going to be able to retire if people don't keep handing over their money?

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 23:01 | 2766847 Pike Bishop
Pike Bishop's picture

Take the bag off of your head, son.

You've earned the right to show your face. And for people to remember it.

And for the Sophisticates to begin to fear it.

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 00:18 | 2766991 Freddie
Freddie's picture

It is all BS.  I stopped watching TV and Hollywood's brainwashing shit before 2008.  Ever notice in movies where the people live in a nice house or apt with almost perfect lives with no cares.  Home Alone - big family, beautiful big house, the whole family is going to Europe first class for Christmas.  There are endless other examples.

Rarely you have a movie about some poor slob struggling.  Hollywood is such crap.

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 00:44 | 2767021 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Agreed.  Only exceptions I remember were Roseanne and Good Times.

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 02:57 | 2767090 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Chico and the Man, What's Happening, Sanford and Son, Married With Children, Laverne and Shirley, Joanie Loves Chachi, Taxi, Dukes of Hazard

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:39 | 2767281 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture


Thu, 09/06/2012 - 09:33 | 2767828 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Hey, now wait a minute...

It's Always Sunny In Philadelphia, bitchez.


Speaking of Good Times, this is pretty funny, actually:


Good Times : Federal Reserve Joke  - YouTube
Thu, 09/06/2012 - 10:19 | 2768037 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

indeed.  Watch "Enemy at the Gates" about the delightful time russians had fighting the nazis in Stalingrad.  When the movie is over you can flip on over to Animal Planet and watch hyenas eating a waterbuffalo's ass (they can't get thru the hide so they eat thru the animal's asshole) while it is still alive stuck in the mud.  Its not all puppy dogs and butterflies if you tune out the unrealistic shit they create, I do happen to agree with you about a lot of it ... but definitely not all of it.

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 15:07 | 2769114 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Sounds like those Hyenas are taking a page out of the "ewww, that's nasty; Honeybadger don't give a shit; Honeybadger just takes what it wants!" playbook.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:20 | 2766610 tlnzz
tlnzz's picture

"the average retirement saver will need to double their rate of savings in order to be able to retire even five years later than originally planned"

Why would anyone bother to save FRN dollars that become less and less value as the Fed continues to debase the FRN dollars?

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:25 | 2766627 fonzannoon
fonzannoon's picture

the avg 30yr old still can't process that the system threw them overboard

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:00 | 2766715 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Indeed! And the system threw them overboard when they began to seek higher corporate profits by outsourcing first blue collar jobs, then white collar jobs then tech jobs to China, India and any third world country that could meet corporate requirements at the lowest wage possible.

So you have record corporate profits and you have record numbers of educated 30 year olds either out of work or working in jobs way under their skill levels because all the jobs are overseas for low wages and no benefits.

30 year olds have been tossed overboard by a government that supports outsourcing of former domestic jobs to China and other countries in the interest of increased profits for corporate entities.

The world labor market does not care if your son or daughter gets a college degree and then can't find work. Their answer would be "if you want work, then work for a Chinaman's wage and no benefits." In short, compete in the global labor market as this is the new reality.

American young people have no longer any reason to expect good paying jobs unless they are in high demand no exportable skill sets. These grow fewer and fewer as technology and outsourcing allow much of America's goods and services to be provided by overseas workers. These folks work hard, don't complain, work without health care benefits, vacations or holidays. They work for less and are easily disposed of when not needed. And they will never try and orgaize a socialist union to screw their employers.

For young Americans the world is a world of global competition, they are only as good as the demand for their skills is.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:34 | 2766770 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Only those who are reliant on the government will be thrown overboard.

I can tell you at one point I worked as an electricians apprenctice. I crawled under two foot crawl spaces covered in rat shit and spider webs and I spent hours in attics sweating dragging #2 SER wire (heavy considering multi-hundred foot runs) and digging through fiberglass insulation. I attended college, and I served in the armed services, serving one combat tour. 

I am highly successful and don't take a penny of government assistance, nor do I expect the government to provide for me. I have never taken V.A benefits.

If people are willing to do the work, there is work available. There is no such thing as a lousy job - only lousy men who don't care to do it.

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 00:07 | 2766975 Dr. Sandi
Dr. Sandi's picture

Somebody get that damned dog back in the house. The yapping is driving me crazy.

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 03:44 | 2767284 Vlad Tepid
Vlad Tepid's picture

So THAT'S Foxconn's secret to Eternal Job Applicants.  Hot damn.

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 07:54 | 2767507 Winston Churchill
Winston Churchill's picture

Exactly so.

I keep having to turn down work because I'm unable to find workers.

Earning maybe 50% of what I did before the 'crash",but I'm earning it.

Seems to be beneath the average American right now.

Reality is a bitch,but she's my bitch.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:42 | 2766815's picture


Indeed! And the system threw them overboard when they began to seek higher corporate profits by outsourcing first blue collar jobs, then white collar jobs then tech jobs to China, India and any third world country that could meet corporate requirements at the lowest wage possible.


Everybody at all times tries to increase their profits. I don't know anyone who wants to earn less.

What is driving jobs overseas is not profit seeking but the absence of control on balance of trade. When commodity money flows overseas less is available at home and so the value increases which means that you will then be able to buy materials and labor at home more cheaply. This reverses the outflow of funds and therefor jobs.

In an inflating fiat standard with reserve status sending dollars overseas does not reduce the availability of currency at home. In fact the availability of currency is always increasing due to inflation. This means that there will not be an eventual flow of jobs back home. The bankers and corporate executives don't care because they sit atop a pyramid amass by trading pieces of paper for real goods produced overseas.


Thu, 09/06/2012 - 00:48 | 2766984 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Human labor is the cheapest commodity of all and getting cheaper all the time in a global economy that those behind the Bilderberg doors have finally implemented successfully.

I am not arguing for or against the morality of this situation (though I definitely have a complex and somewhat unique opinion of this), but merely pointing out the fact.

Aside from the very relevant and destructive monetary policies of central fractional reserve banks that control the volume of the fiat money supply (on behalf of those they are beholden to), the most destructive policy from a "wages" standpoint for Americans (and many others in developed nations) was the Most Favored Nation trade status that William Jefferson Clinton bestowed upon China (that Papa Bush, former CIA head and POTUS, had already tee'd up for him)- look at the total volume of capital investment by American and other multiglobal firms pre and post China's MFN status for a very clear picture of the ramifications of that event.

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 08:35 | 2767646 Acet
Acet's picture

Something just poped-up in my mind:

What the hell is the point of being a citizen of a Nation if that Nation does pretty much jack-shit nothing for its citizens? Would outsourcing and open-borders not weaken the sense of nationhood for most citizens since a nation were those practices are widespread due to elimination of trade barriers does very little for its nationals?

Could it be that the reason why Social Security expenditures have increased is that it's a way for the state to compensate for the reduction of what the nation does for its citizens that came from eliminating trade barriers?

In these times when most states do nothing at all to protect the main source of income (jobs) of most of their own citizens, why should the citizens be loyal to the state?

I suspect today's economic policies are pilling-up far more serious problems than most people think ...

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 09:37 | 2767862 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

IMO, the social contract is strained and will be under increasingly larger strain in the years to come, even if the sheeple don't understand that bits and pieces of their actions, added in the aggregrate and in response to the pressure ratcheting up, is helping to test the social contract.

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 10:37 | 2768109 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

Indeed.  However I see no point in having a military at all when every job outsourced to f'ing china or elsewhere is a shot into an American workers back.... not a kill shot just a life crippling shot.  Given the systemic corruption of the US political system, what is the military defending?  The Navy has a slogan "A Global force for Good" which can be interpreted two ways, one interpretation I don't like, the other I do.  I don't know which one to believe is the true intent of the slogan.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:31 | 2766640 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Hmmm.... I don't think it ever entered their mind to look at it from the stand point of the precious metal investor.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:42 | 2766662 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Nah, they are just going about it the wrong way.  Today it is easier than ever to retire.  In fact, you can retire pretty much any time you want.  First you get laid off, and collect unemployment benefits.  While on those benefits, get food stamps too, and become monstrously fat.  Then apply for diability.

Easy as pie.  No evil savings required.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 21:53 | 2766697 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Let me give you a tip on a clue to men's characters: the man who damns money has obtained it dishonorably; the man who respects it has earned it.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:40 | 2766809 GoldenTool
GoldenTool's picture

Letting you know I downed you.  Don't really feel like getting into a long rant, just think you are an idiot.  The man who damns money isn't dishonorable.  He probably looked around and realized the only ones who have money have either bled there fingers to the bone to get it or bent over for it and done everything asked of them by the money owners.  You're probably not one of the owners if you have less then 1 bil in the bank by the way, but keep pushing the status quo and that american dream it's working great.  Keep working harder that works right...

Punch back if you want I'm heading to bed.


"Do unto others."

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:46 | 2766825's picture

You're right because no one should have to work hard to get ahead. Everyone should just be in the 1% automatically. And the fact that there are bad people in the world who fraudulently obtain lots of money is such a turn off that I'd rather just twiddle my thumbs and starve. Or at least occupy someplace.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:54 | 2766839 ForTheWorld
ForTheWorld's picture

What or whom are you trying to get ahead of?

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 23:21 | 2766886's picture

Subsistence level existence. If a human being does not consume about 2,500 calories per day and have a suitable shelter in which to escape the elements they will eventually die. One will continue to need these things throughout their lifetime and so one must take steps to prepare for the future when one is still young. If one has a family they also require food and shelter as well as an education and medical care. One works in order to obtain funds with which to accomplish these tasks.

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 01:06 | 2767057 GoldenTool
GoldenTool's picture

You're a fuckin tool.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:47 | 2766826 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Just to let you know. I didn't down vote you.

“Run for your life from any man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter.”

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 01:04 | 2767055 GoldenTool
GoldenTool's picture

I want nothing from you.  Although I'd be curious what your defination of money is.  That money you are so proud of is another mans debt and who said slavery was dead.  Don't even get me started on property taxes or the ability of people to take what is mine without my having recourse.  I suppose I should work harder to pay a lawyer, maybe next time I could win.  Ya the american dream...


"Do unto others."

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 01:34 | 2767091 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

"Do not let your fire go out, spark by irreplaceable spark in the hopeless swaps of the not-quite, the not-yet, and the not-at-all. Do not let the hero in your soul perish in lonely frustration for the life you deserved and have never been able to reach. The world you desire can be won. It exists.. it is real.. it is possible.. it's yours"

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 01:50 | 2767134 GoldenTool
GoldenTool's picture

Thanks for this one, I guess.  Seems like all I see are worms feeding off of others desire.  

If you are going to quote could you source.  I'm rather well read and can't place some of your stuff.  Quite a few characters on this site with some wacky quotes, guess I'm not as well read as I thought.


"Do unto others."

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 02:06 | 2767152 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

I put it in quotes. I'm sure you're aware of google/yahoo/bing.

Anything else before you go to bed?

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 01:36 | 2767107 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

I belong to no organized religion, but prefer the Buddhist Golden Rule of "[d]on't do onto others as you wish not to be done onto," to the Judeo-Christian one of "[d]o onto others as you wish to be done onto."

There are some sick f*ckers in the world with whom I certainly do not share their fetishes and bizarre preferences.

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 01:57 | 2767141 GoldenTool
GoldenTool's picture

I think of it more as the best defense is a good offense.

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 01:47 | 2767128 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

That is a ridiculous notion.  First off you should acknowledge your quotes but that aside I have my entire life damned money and respected it simultaneously in the same way that I can damn a government but respect its necessity.  I have never obtained anything "dishonorably" and never intend to. 

Money is a tool and everyone should damn its necessity for the evil that it can conjure in power mad and simple minded selfish people while recognizing all the good that tool can be used for.

Another similar analogy would be guns.  I hate that they have to exist and damn the world for needing them but need them they do and they must be respected.  In more than one case, the Revolutionary War specifically, guns have brought freedom.

I bet Bernie Madoff respected the shit out of the billions of dollars he stole, as well as Allen Stanford, they were both "charitable" too but completely dishonorable.


Thu, 09/06/2012 - 02:02 | 2767146 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

....Ayn Rand

I've never seen money corrupt a person. I've only seen corruptible people abuse money.

I've never seen a gun murder a person. I've only seen murderous people abuse guns.


Thu, 09/06/2012 - 02:25 | 2767162 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I knew who the quote was from it was not for me that I suggested that.

You said you were telling us something about man's character and I tried to explain otherwise.  Because someone damns money does not make them corrupt nor does respecting it make one honorable.  You are arguing my case. 

Money is not the root of all evil it is the desire for money that is.  The Hernandez brothers didn't want to kill their parents just because they wanted to kill their parents there was a goal and that was money and all that it implies.  It was not the money's fault and it didn't "corrupt" them but it was the main factor in their corrupt actions otherwise they would just be run of the mill murderers.  They may have never murdered anyone as their means without the end being money.

You just disproved your initial assertion that this was about man's character when now you say that it is not money or their feelings towards it or their statements about it that makes someone dishonorable or honorable.  They are either honorable or dishonorable to begin with. 

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 02:27 | 2767173 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

First of all...

You meant the Menendez brothers. It's ok, they all sound the same.

Second of all...

You have honorable people with guns. You have dishonorbale people guns. But guns don't kill people. So what are you not agreeing with?

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 02:29 | 2767176 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Yes the Menedez it's been a while since I thought of them.

I am trying to make it clear to you that your initial assertion that someone that damns money is inherently dishonorable and someone that respects money is honorable is wrong.


Thu, 09/06/2012 - 02:35 | 2767179 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

I never said someone who respects money is wrong.

You drunk?

You must be careful of people who damn money. That's a fact. Do you not agree with that assertion?

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 02:48 | 2767197 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I should ask you that because I didn't say that either. (I acknowledge my poor punctuation in that last response which was confusing).

I said YOU were wrong, the statement you made and that I replied to is wrong, that someone that damns money obtained it dishonorably and one that respects it is honorable or earned it; which implies honorably.

I do not agree with that assertion mainly because the sample size is too small.  How many people do you know that do damn money?  I'd say the majority of dishonorable people don't damn money and "respect" it to the degree that they are willing to sell their soul for it.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:00 | 2766711 Zgangsta
Zgangsta's picture

In the stupidity of my youth, I actually did quite well on the market, until the 2008 crash took most of it all away.

Now I've lowered my lavish expectations for the future, and just sock away gold and silver as I can, like I should have started doing 15 years ago instead of chasing after a mirage...

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:02 | 2766718 max2205
max2205's picture

Retire on savings principal. Shit happens

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 23:39 | 2766928 The Navigator
The Navigator's picture

Retire on Saved Principal - that may be our only choice since every market I can see are rigged casinos - AND, as we boomers retire we will be off-loading stocks and real estate (to pay for our nightly dog food and daily meds) and driving those markets lower.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:02 | 2766719 My Days Are Get...
My Days Are Getting Fewer's picture

Tradition savings is futile.

Invest in reducing all debts to zero. That is the only risk-free investment.

Even with "currency reform", no one knows if debts will be restated at par or something else.

Just get out of debt - then buy metal.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:14 | 2766722 live free
live free's picture

Hell ya... I buy as little as possible, live in the country,fully prepped for whatever comes and ... I'm 32.. make six figures and I save every single f-ing penny I can, don't and will never have a 401k, and invest only in "tangibles" and will have all major debt paid off in 10 months. 

Will be off the grid in 2 years and won't owe anyone a penny... "suck it Trebeck" 

Good luck with your bullshit "complex financial instruments".

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:09 | 2766723 roadsnbridges
roadsnbridges's picture

Need to be a certified orgamech, like Barry and Moochelle, to retire from here on out.


(i am not a toy.  Teddy in AI)


Gosh, don't you klowns realize the aliens are amongst us?  They are called Libs!

Wake up, ferchristsakes!


Pod people!

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:05 | 2766727 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

" unintended consequence to resisting the Fed is that the average retirement saver will need to double their rate of savings..."

so the intended positive consequences of the Feds economic meddling are forseen but the Fed denies seeing the "unintended" downsides



Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:07 | 2766732 roadsnbridges
roadsnbridges's picture

Yep, 2 x -1 won't help.

Thu, 09/06/2012 - 07:11 | 2766757 Zero Govt
Zero Govt's picture

Yep, and it gets worse...

because the forseen positive benefits of Fed stimulus have not arrived

while the "unintended" negative impacts of Fed meddling has

the brilliant Fed.. any of the economic morons there been sacked yet?

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 23:42 | 2766934 object_orient
object_orient's picture

A negative savings rate certainly won't help. And nobody's even talking about inflation in consumer goods. It's even worse than it seems.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:11 | 2766745 roadsnbridges
roadsnbridges's picture

Totally orgamech controlled.  You lamers worry about Skynet....

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:11 | 2766741 DeFeralCat
DeFeralCat's picture

I have a serious question to pose. I don't know the answer. I have my thoughts. The US is 16 trillion in debt. Let's say unicorns mate with dolphins and Congress is able to cut 1 trillion a year from the budget. This crushes demand in the US. It kills growth. Where does the inflation come from? When people call for austerity and you get it, how can you also convince me that this is deflationary? The velocity of money is at depression levels.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:13 | 2766749 DeFeralCat
DeFeralCat's picture

Meant to say it is inflationary and not deflationary. My buddy Jim B was talking and distracted me.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:18 | 2766763 roadsnbridges
roadsnbridges's picture

typical kitty...

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:31 | 2766785 khakuda
khakuda's picture

Really doing austerity would be deflationary.  The shit would hit the fan, asset prices would drop to clearing levels, unemployment would rise and politicians would get booted, so, rest assured, that is not the route TPTB are going to take or are taking for that matter.

Their route is to print money, keep spending and party like it's 1999, while waiting the arrival of the tooth fairy.  Instead of letting the shit hit the fan and clearing the market quickly, they are opting to drag this out for years and years and years, changing the rules all the time and creating uncertainty in both monetary and fiscal policy.

So, it's a bit of a mess.  But, you already know that or you wouldn't be reading this website, but rather would be watching online porn with the rest of the country.  In fact, now that I think of it...

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:32 | 2766789 roadsnbridges
roadsnbridges's picture

OMG!  Not clearing levels!

That's like price discovery!  (sign of the cross)

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:36 | 2766796 khakuda
khakuda's picture

I know, can you imagine.  A bunch of PHd economists from Princeton get to run the world's foremost central bank and somehow all the masters and doctoral knowledge pushed out Econ 101.  Not enough neurons to store it all, I suppose.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:59 | 2766849 DeFeralCat
DeFeralCat's picture

We all kind of agree that it ends in a mess. My point is that it is a deflationary mess and not an inflationary one. They are fighting deflation, not inflation which is why you have policies that are designed to produce inflation. The argument assumes that Beranke is right and succeeds. My argument is that he is wrong and does not succeed and the spiral is deflationary. The debt is too big. They can't print money fast enough or with enough agreement to beat it.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 23:02 | 2766855 khakuda
khakuda's picture

You may be right.  Helicopter Ben would print like crazy in that scenario, but he may not be able to politically.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 23:15 | 2766876 DeFeralCat
DeFeralCat's picture

I don't think he will print BIG here. Europe will announce unconventional bond buying tomorrow. He will announce open ended bond buying next week. It means nothing other than no one knows how to react. The idea is to keep the market stablized for November. Talk has got them further than action.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:19 | 2766753 roadsnbridges
roadsnbridges's picture

What demand?  That for more orgamech bureaucrats?  Like orgamechs don't want to kill growth?

"Austerity" used to mean cutting orgamech spending.  Get rid of goobermint interference, and velocity of money will improve.  That is not necessarily ()flationary.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:21 | 2766768 DeFeralCat
DeFeralCat's picture

With the greatest amount of respect, I am not sure that was the convincing argument that I need. Of course, it is all geared toward profit generation. Equity prices first. But event the bots are overlly stupid. They will take an easy 10% out of this market if they become convinced pe ratios cannot be maintained. I am convinced. They bots are not. This is why we hang our hat at S&P 1410.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:29 | 2766786 roadsnbridges
roadsnbridges's picture

Ain't deserving of the respect, but thanks.

The bots only exist because goobermint lets them.  They just serve to mess up fundamentals.

Hell, everything hangs on the criminals these days.  But should,

righteous people get in, in spite of the aliens,, we could see a return to reality, in which case, a 7 P/E on the S&P is true and warranted.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:11 | 2766743 i_call_you_my_base
i_call_you_my_base's picture

The best investment right now could be debt.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 22:17 | 2766760 roadsnbridges
roadsnbridges's picture

I prefer your momma.  She has more to offer.

Wed, 09/05/2012 - 23:24 | 2766895 Matt
Matt's picture

"The best investment right now could be debt."

How? Why? What? 

Unless you have an extrordinary amount of money to move around, what kind of debt would you invest in?

NIRP? wouldn't cash be better than a bond at negative interest rates? Or are you betting the rates keep getting negativer?

Or are you suggesting CCC-bonds, in the hopes that some of them don't default?

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