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Rick Santelli Tells Arch Globalization Advocate Friedman He Is An Idiot

Tyler Durden's picture


Following today's New York Times invasion of CNBC, where two of its most irrelevant columnists are now part of CNBC's most irrelevant hourly block so at least it is symmetric, Rick Santelli and "The Earth is flat...but I sure am round" author Tom Friedman had a choice exchange of words which culminated with Rick Santelli finally telling the world's most overhyped patron saint of globalization the bitter truth. In the meantime, not even the very non-flat Friemdan had an answer to Santelli's very simple question: is Social Security a ponzi scheme... And while we are there, we wonder just what noun would be used to describe Friemdan if asked if the entire Keynesian model is an even bigger ponzi.

SANTELLI: I’d just like to know – you know, I was watching that debate last night, although it really wasn’t a debate,” Santelli said. “It was like a weird press conference. But I would like to know – does Mr. Friedman think Social Security is a Ponzi scheme?
FRIEDMAN: No, I don’t think it’s a Ponzi scheme.
SANTELLI: Earlier in the show you said that we’re putting the burden on our kids that’s unsustainable. What’s the definition of a Ponzi scheme?
FRIEDMAN: It’s a program that made promises that it cannot keep in full and it needs to be fixed and reformed.
SANTELLI: Isn’t that exactly what a Ponzi pyramid is?
FRIEDMAN: I don’t think it is a Ponzi scheme as a criminal endeavor.
SANTELLI: No, no – forget the criminal side. You need more people to perpetuate a myth because if the people stop the myth is known to all. That’s my definition of a Ponzi scheme. Let’s call at it chain letter, a pyramid scheme. Isn’t that by definition what Social Security is? Take the legalities and fraud out.
STEVE LIESMAN: Why is it a Ponzi scheme, Rick?
FRIEDMAN: It is pay as we go. Ronald Reagan fixed it. Why can’t we fix it?
SANTELLI: What does Ronald Reagan have to do with my question?
FRIEDMAN: What does your question have to do with reality?
SANTELLI: You can’t decide that more people is the only thing made Social Security work. We have a real issue because many people in government seem to like to read your work.
FRIEDMAN: What makes Social Security work is fixing Social Security in terms of the population demands.
SANTELLI: I didn’t ask if we should fix it or not. I asked if it’s a pyramid scheme.
FRIEDMAN: Your question is idiotic. That’s what you asked.
SANTELLI: You’re idiotic. I’m done. I feel good.

h/t DailyCaller


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Thu, 09/08/2011 - 10:56 | 1646122 zilverreiger
zilverreiger's picture

ofcourse its not a ponzi scheme (though some implementations might be)

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:01 | 1646162 spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

"the earth is flat but i sure am round"

classic, tyler, classic. 

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:09 | 1646210 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

Only truth tellers on CNBS - Ratigan (Gone) , Gasparino (Gone) and Santelli.

How much longer will the ponzi promotion station tolerate Santelli?

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:18 | 1646254 EvlTheCat
EvlTheCat's picture

I think a better question is how long will Santelli put up with their brain dead ignorance. CNBS is a circus, for tools and Santelli is their foaming at the mouth side show freak.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:33 | 1646340 Careless Whisper
Careless Whisper's picture

and their other propaganda station MSLSD thinks you are all idiots.  can someone please teach them how to make a bar graph to scale?


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:51 | 1646400 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

Reagan Fixed it!


Lets scrap it! FUCK GRANDMA!! No one liked that old Bitch any way!!

and!! why we are at it!!

lets give some more Tax Cuts to the Job Creators with the Money saved!! aint life Grande'.

ALL YOU IDIOTS!! who are drooling for Austerity!!

By KATHY BARKS HOFFMAN - Associated Press

LANSING, Mich. (AP) — Gov. Rick Snyder on Tuesday signed into law a stricter, four-year lifetime limit on cash welfare benefits, prompting advocates for the poor to warn that tens of thousands of residents will find themselves without cash assistance on Oct. 1.

I Hope all of you mid west wanna be Austerity freaks live in Michigan and it is your wife and kids that you have put at risk instead of someone elses!

Lets get on with the Starving of the most Heavily Armed Nation in the World! so that some wanna be NOT wealthy fuck can be sold the idea that a tax break is coming their way sooner than later! LOL!!

And ALL! of you turning a blind eye to how your fellow Americans are treated! ALL! of you that find that Starving American Children due to the stupidity of their parent(s).. The Light is coming for you cock roaches and God Willing I will have the fucken strength to see each and every one of you fucking scumbags personally.

Right will win and You! sitting on the sidelines who did NOTHING!! are JUST! AS GUILITY AS THOSE PULLING THE TRIGGER!!

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:10 | 1646481 GhostfaceCracka
GhostfaceCracka's picture

You are ZH's comic relief, JW. Never change!

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:15 | 1646501 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

Hey JW, I appreciate your passion but it really is an issue of mathematics, which is a passionless subject. Think about what States spend their money on. The "big 5" are education, law enforcement, health care, pensions for govt workers, and welfare payments. Michigan is very much like Greece. It doesn't have the money to pay for everything that has been promised. That's a mathematical equation and the answer is negative. So something has to be cut. They can argue for the mix of cuts, but it's mathematically impossible for them to pay for everything on the plate right now based on tax revenues.

Is the answer to tax the rich more? Well, they tried that in Illinois and businesses are fleeing the state. Raising tax rates there will probably lower government revenues net-net.

So you can yell and scream and go boldface on us all, but mathematics and cash flow don't give a shit. We as a society need to start dealing with reality and move away from the adolescent fantasy that we can have everything we want.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 13:17 | 1646754 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



the MATH of it ALL!! Grandma and Children go HUNGRY in MY COUNTRY because of Greedy Fucking Cockroaches LIKE YOU! YOU AND YOUR KIND ARE A PLAGUE UPON MY COUNTRY!! GO LIVE IN AFRICA!! All the Austerity you could ever dream of!! but you are NOT turning my Country into some Police State filled with Austerity so that you can have an extra 5% sitting in a Bank that you never touch or do anything productive with!


***has to do with*** the TOP .1% NOT PAYING ANY FUCKING TAXES!!

1) Exxon Mobil made $19 billion in profits in 2009. Exxon not only paid no federal income taxes, it actually received a $156 million rebate from the IRS, according to its SEC filings. (Source: Exxon Mobil's 2009 shareholder report filed with the SEC here.)

2) Bank of America received a $1.9 billion tax refund from the IRS last year, although it made $4.4 billion in profits and received a bailout from the Federal Reserve and the Treasury Department of nearly $1 trillion. (Source: here, ProPublica here and Treasury here.)

3) Over the past five years, while General Electric made $26 billion in profits in the United States, it received a $4.1 billion refund from the IRS. (Source: Citizens for Tax Justice here and The New York Times here. Note: despite rumors to the contrary, the Times has stood by its story.)

4) Chevron received a $19 million refund from the IRS last year after it made $10 billion in profits in 2009. (Source: See 2009 Chevron annual report here. Note 15 on page FS-46 of this report shows a U.S. federal income tax liability of $128 million, but that it was able to defer $147 million for a U.S. federal income tax liability of $-19 million)

5) Boeing, which received a $30 billion contract from the Pentagon to build 179 airborne tankers, got a $124 million refund from the IRS last year. . (Source: Paul Buchheit, professor, DePaul University, here and Citizens for Tax Justice here.)

6) Valero Energy, the 25th largest company in America with $68 billion in sales last year received a $157 million tax refund check from the IRS and, over the past three years, it received a $134 million tax break from the oil and gas manufacturing tax deduction. (Source: the company's 2009 annual report, pg. 112, here.)

7) Goldman Sachs in 2008 only paid 1.1 percent of its income in taxes even though it earned a profit of $2.3 billion and received an almost $800 billion from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury Department. (Source: Bloomberg News here, ProPublica here, Treasury Department here.)

8) Citigroup last year made more than $4 billion in profits but paid no federal income taxes. It received a $2.5 trillion bailout from the Federal Reserve and U.S. Treasury. (Source: Paul Buchheit, professor, DePaul University, here, ProPublica here, Treasury Department here.)

9) ConocoPhillips, the fifth largest oil company in the United States, made $16 billion in profits from 2006 through 2009, but received $451 million in tax breaks through the oil and gas manufacturing deduction. (Sources: Profits can be found here. The deduction can be found on the company's 2010 SEC 10-K report to shareholders on 2009 finances, pg. 127, here)

10) Over the past five years, Carnival Cruise Lines made more than $11 billion in profits, but its federal income tax rate during those years was just 1.1 percent. (Source: The New York Times here)


***has to do with*** the TOP .1% Lobbying to Move the Manufacturing Base and the TAXES it Generated to Fucking China!!


10k jobs a Month for a decade sent to China? Tax Benefits for Eroding the Tax Base?




The Bankers of America have Stolen $2.2 Trillion Dollars in the form of Bonuses and Salary in the last 5 years.

Keiser Report: Market Schizophrenia (E181)


They all have to go... the system is corrupt and one man can NOT save it.. only "We the People" can bring back the rule of law..

Wall Street has NO LAW! and No Sworn Law Enforcement is capable of really putting in an honest days Work!! and harassing poor people while Wall Street Steals Trillions and Washington DC send a HUGE portion of our Tax Base to China for Lobby Dollars does NOT COUNT!!


NOT ONLY DO THEY HAVE TO GO!! BUT the Supporters of these fucking cockroaches have to go too!


*** "So you can yell and scream and go boldface on us all, but mathematics and cash flow don't give a shit. We as a society need to start dealing with reality and move away from the adolescent fantasy that we can have everything we want." ***

I want the Top 0.1% to pay their fair share like every working man and woman in America already does and has done!


I want all those off shore monies Taxed and Re-Taxed and then Confiscated for those scumbags trying to circumvent their responsibilities to their Country and if they dont want to do that they can..


Enjoy Russia!!

They will be REALLY SAFE THERE!! or anywhere else they want to go and be a scumbag! without the America Flag to wrap themselves in for protection!


How's that for Bold Face Facts?


and if you don't think everyone should pay their fair share?

and if you think the rich should go Un-Taxed!!

and if you want live in a Police State!!

then you can get the fuck out too!


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 13:49 | 1646902 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture


Yup, yup (double yup)

Yup, yup, yup.  (triple bold face yup).

I can't argue with you there JW, but you two are arguing apples and oranges on some of these issues.

Social Security is too big and complex to be discussed without an argument.  If they broke it up into two or three programs, then maybe they could fix it, but in its current state, it's not fixable and as JW points out, it is the last place we should start to repair our economy and government. 

First, there's the disability issue.  They vastly widened the qualifications of being disabled, and now everyone who is too fat to work or suffers from depression qualifies for lifetime benefits.  Couldn't this be put on a different program where cheaters could be identified and dealt with?  We are getting eaten alive here.

Second:  There's a difference between money you paid in and charity.  If you paid in, you deserve to get your money back with a good rate of return.  Once that comes to an end, you should be sent to a different system called charity.  Social security has no means testing because it mixes the issues of getting your money back with receiving charity.  We have to have means testing once you have drawn out all the money you paid into the system (plus interest).  I am not for cutting off benefits to the disabled or to charity cases, but to have them engaged in the argument only clouds the issue.  The real core argument for social security is: if you live beyond what you contributed, it's simply not your money.  If you need the government's support at that point, fine, but I don't want to hear "I want my money."

Now everyone can junk me.  Go ahead, I deserve it.  I agree with JW 100%.  You can't fix the system unless you start at the top.  Cutting off benefits to those who are completely dependant upon a disfunctional system that we created is not the answer.  Cutting off food stamps after the government has taken over a large part of our economy, after it has messed up the health care industry, after it is destroyed the economy, is repairing the system from the wrong end.  We can't start with the little guy in repairing the system, he is too close to the edge of the cliff.  So there you go, that's the math which JW's argument definitely does not ignore. We waited too long to attack the problem beginning with the little guy. 

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 23:02 | 1649442 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

The real question is this:  If Social Security is so great, why is everyone FORCED to contribute at the point of a gun?

In what way will the system ever work if one persons social security is paid for by only two people?  Because that's what is coming on us in not too many decades.

We need to just terminate it and grandfather in the existing people.
Younger people have already written off ever seeing social security paid back to them, so I don't even think the blowback would be that great.

Does there need to be a safety net for older people? Sure. But right now it's not a net, it's a blanket that's covering everyone - and smothering us all.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 14:04 | 1646983 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

JW, you are talking about tax policy on the Federal level. Your original post derided budget cuts in Michigan. State and Federal are apples and oranges. States cannot print money and generally speaking cannot deficit spend.

2nd, you need to get it through your boldface head that corporations do not pay taxes. They will either pass the costs on to the consumer or move their operations overseas.

3rd, you can spare me the insults and ad hominem (sp?) attacks. I really don't give a shit what you think of me, so your name-calling isn't having the desired effect.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 14:50 | 1647175 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



***"2nd, you need to get it through your boldface head that corporations do not pay taxes."***

Corporations receive SUSIDIES!


Corporations receive Tax Credits! which can be monetized!! (thru the use of more tax Dollars)


Corporations receive Tax Returns or Tax Dollars back even though Corporations DO NOT PAY ANY TAXES TO BEGIN WITH!

***"They will either pass the costs on to the consumer"***

So Be It! Let them Pay and Let them Compete!! I have too! just like every other small business person does! If it is good enough for the sheepish majority then it is good enough for the elite few!



***"or move their operations overseas."***

and a LOT of Corporations have moved their Corporations off shore already and then on top of that Bounce their monies around the Globe to circumvent paying taxes.

Google 2.4% Rate Shows How $60 Billion Lost to Tax Loopholes


All this shit is common knowledge..

So what do you really want to talk about?

what agenda do you believe serve America the best going forward?

A service economy with little Mexicans running around pruning the trees?

or are you capable of seeing the most well armed Country in the History of the World is about to get a whole lot more hungry?

well you are not.. just those other people.. and maybe thinning the herd would stretch out the resources or at the very least give your eyes a break from having to see them all the time.. let them kill each other.. the world.. or Your world will be all the better off without them in it!


so.. do tell.. what are you really trying to say.. or are you going to stick with spinning?


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 15:20 | 1647344 Religion Explained
Religion Explained's picture

Here's a news flash: The world is run (good and services required to run it are also included) by a mere fraction of the population. Useless eaters are 90% of the world. Not their fault, but regardless, now what?

I waited till I could provide for my children till I had children. Don't bring children into the world if you can't afford to raise them and insure they have a real chance for a prosperous life.

You want to tax me to fund other people's retirement or yours? F U.

You want to tax me to fund other people's healthcare or yours? F U.

And in case I wasn't clear, F U again.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 17:03 | 1647780 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



of the 1,000 words offered discussing collecting taxes from the top 0.1%.. some how you wiggled your broke ass into the conversation..

you dont have a sister ship..

you dont have mutliple leases with general electric for your engines..

you dont even speak the language..

you already pay taxes..

the 1,000 plus words above your head, there..

are clearly about people who pay NO! Taxes.

SO! When you start paying no Taxes this conversation will involve you.. until then.. like you picture implies.. now go say a prayer for the Poor Job Creators.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 17:03 | 1647782 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



*** "The truth must die." ***

Obama's War on Whistle-Blowers Intensifies.

The Obama administration's war on whistleblowers -- whose disclosures are one of the very few remaining avenues for learning what our government actually does -- continues to intensify.

UBS whistleblower Bradley Birkenfeld deserves statue on Wall Street, not prison sentence



Wednesday, January 06, 2010

Barack Obama, who entered the White House promising all this change, should be hailing Bradley Birkenfeld as a modern-day hero.

He should erect a statue on Wall Street for this former banker for Swiss giant UBS who blew the whistle on the biggest tax-evasion scheme in U.S. history.

For a Whistle-Blower, No Good Deed Goes Unpunished


Recently, I caught up with David Maris, a one-time star pharmaceutical analyst for Bank of America who became embroiled in one of the most notorious bull/bear battles of the last decade. His story encapsulates just how broken Wall Street culture is.

Swiss whistleblower Rudolf Elmer plans to hand over offshore banking secrets of the rich and famous to WikiLeaks

He will disclose the details of 'massive potential tax evasion' before he flies home to stand trial over his actions

The offshore bank account details of 2,000 "high net worth individuals" and corporations – detailing massive potential tax evasion – will be handed over to the WikiLeaks organisation in London tomorrow by the most important and boldest whistleblower in Swiss banking history, Rudolf Elmer, two days before he goes on trial in his native Switzerland.

Austrian Tax Evasion Whistleblower’ Dies in Swiss Jail

Something is fishy in Switzerland. What was this whistleblower doing in jail? How did he die? If he had taken his own life, or died of natural causes, would the authorities refuse to give out any further information on the incident. Maybe someone slipped by calling this an incident…

An Austrian tax evasion whistleblower has been found dead in his prison cell, a local newspaper has claimed.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 15:21 | 1647345 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

See, I think you misintrepret me. If I was King, I would legalize marijuana, close all overseas military bases, bring all of our soldiers home (keep the navy and nukes around just in case), institute a bare-bones single-payer health insurance program for everyone and if you want anything beyond that pay for it yourself, basically shut down the health insurance companies. re-institute Glass-Stegall, eliminate federally-guarenteed student loans, make all existing student loans non-recourse, institute right-to-work laws in all 50 states, elminate the TSA and the department of Homeland Security, while I'm at it eliminate the Departments of Education and Energy.

That's probably enough for a start. Is that "Republican enough" for you or do you still want to cling to the belief that I'm some corporate troll??

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 17:13 | 1647811 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture

why are you fighting me on the top 0.1% whp pay NO! Fucking Taxes?

If I were King.. we would have a street party.. and Hang ALL of those fuckers! and confiscate ALL their Money!! and do something positive with it.

$2.2 Trillion in the past 5 years to the Bankers. FOR WHAT?? and they pay NO Taxes.. I am talking about the people who work for the Banks.. NO! the Executives not the drive thru tellers before you decide to make it a stupid conversation again.

the system is corrupt and broken and NO ONE! is doing anything about it becuase they are comfy and dont want to be the first and / or give up a very comfortable life style.. I havent fired any shoots so I am NOT! just bashing you now am I?

We have a larger problem.. that everyone ignores..

the most well armed Country in the History of the World is about to be starved a little.. the old and the poor of course..

the middle will be next.. as they have already be softened up some..

and after that it will be easier as the numbers are smaller for each demographic.

so.. as everyone turns away and pretends not to see whats going on becuase it does NOT! involve them.. this is only a temporary fix for them!

becuase they are coming for all of us.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 15:41 | 1647422 Kelley
Kelley's picture

Your grandma will still get her SS check like clockwork. The changes would only affect those under the age of 50. Nothing changes for those 50 and over.

When SS was started there were 140 paying in for every person receiving a check. Today, it is three workers for one recipient and will become two workers for each recipient in the future. 

The maximum employee tax was $60 a year when it started. Today the maximum is over $13,000 annually.

Despite all the money that is collected, it isn't enough to meet the the liabilities. Meanwhile, when SS payments were in the black, Congress spent it all on OTHER PROJECTS.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 16:27 | 1647652 ffart
ffart's picture

Yep, because more looting is going to get us out of this mess and prevent government from defaulting on their fraudulent promises.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 13:59 | 1646931 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

@"The "big 5" are education, law enforcement, health care, pensions for govt workers, and welfare payments"


All of those are perversely and purposefully missmanaged by NWO sellouts and follow the NWO think tanks' pure-evil guidelines:

- Education: public education systems purposefully teach the bottom 90% how to fail at life ( ), and furthermore a vast proportion of the funds go to BS NWO middlemen, analysts and managers who are there to leech while making sure no one can teach positive things.

- law enforcement: how about legalizing drugs?  Oops, that would get in the way of the government/NWO's profits and shadow banking slush funds (Iran-Contra, big banks making bank from money laundering, etc.).

- health care: the US spends twice as much on healthcare per capita than Europeans do, yet we have millions uninsured (but huge profits for the pukes at the top of the industry).

- pensions: teachers accept low pay because of the promised benefits, cops agree to the risks and crap work because of the promised benefits (etc.), but it seems like they won't get any of it (just like in "Animal Farm", we'll be sold for glue instead).  Globalization and countless other practices have destroyed the jobs and self-sufficiency communities used to have, so besides the absurdly low effective taxes for the top 0.1% and corporations and the predatory fraud, let's not forget why all our cities and states are broke...

- welfare payments: the system has a lot of perverse incentives and gets abused a lot, but as JW points out, there are lots of kids involved (millions) - just 'cos it's broken (on purpose), just 'cos those people were never given the same chance at you to succeed (and hence largely failed at life), ZH readers seem to think the 'best' solution is to let them all die?


I am certainly in agreement with JW's message and sentiment: it seems like none of you care, all of you believe the NWO message that people who are unsuccessful at life (at a sociological level, rather than an individual level) somehow deserve their lot in life.


What fraction of the poor people who are born on the wrong side of the tracks ever escape the misery that the system dooms them to?  (And how many of those are true success stories, rather than being more examples of NWO sellouts giving the false impression of success?)  I know I would not have been able to turn out as I did if I did not have the idylic early childhood I had, but it seems like you all are blissfully convinced that your success is simply the result of your own efforts?


Hollywood, TV and various religious organizations (which overwhelmingly originate from NWO pukes) have you convinced that every man for himself is the RIGHT WAY.  Sure, it's hard to believe in helping others when efforts to do so seem to always fail, but surely by now you realize that all these efforts are engineered to fail?  More than anything, this widespread lack of empathy is a very sad testament to modern man.  To repeat JW's message: shame on you.  My message: wake up!  Being selfish and self-centered dooms you to unhappiness and makes you incapable (isolated as you become) from ever standing up against the NWO!

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 17:23 | 1647836 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



you are far too polite!

"off with these scumbag cockroaches heads!!"


and remember that here in America! the Truth will get you thrown in Jail!!

it is better to Lie, Cheat and Steal.. of course it has to be done on a Grande' Scale to be accepted by Law Enforcement as NOT Breaking the Law.. steal a loaf of bread to feed your family and you will get gunned down by over paid meter maids wearing more body armor than the Marines get on the front lines of Iraq, Afganistan or Other Un-Named Hell Hole!

Fuck the Sworn Law Enforcement they are NOTHING more than modern day Pinkertons.. here to suck Rockefellers dick and kill innocent people.

*** "The truth must die." ***

Obama's War on Whistle-Blowers Intensifies.

The Obama administration's war on whistleblowers -- whose disclosures are one of the very few remaining avenues for learning what our government actually does -- continues to intensify.

UBS whistleblower Bradley Birkenfeld deserves statue on Wall Street, not prison sentence



Wednesday, January 06, 2010

Barack Obama, who entered the White House promising all this change, should be hailing Bradley Birkenfeld as a modern-day hero.

He should erect a statue on Wall Street for this former banker for Swiss giant UBS who blew the whistle on the biggest tax-evasion scheme in U.S. history.

For a Whistle-Blower, No Good Deed Goes Unpunished


Recently, I caught up with David Maris, a one-time star pharmaceutical analyst for Bank of America who became embroiled in one of the most notorious bull/bear battles of the last decade. His story encapsulates just how broken Wall Street culture is.

Swiss whistleblower Rudolf Elmer plans to hand over offshore banking secrets of the rich and famous to WikiLeaks

He will disclose the details of 'massive potential tax evasion' before he flies home to stand trial over his actions

The offshore bank account details of 2,000 "high net worth individuals" and corporations – detailing massive potential tax evasion – will be handed over to the WikiLeaks organisation in London tomorrow by the most important and boldest whistleblower in Swiss banking history, Rudolf Elmer, two days before he goes on trial in his native Switzerland.

Austrian Tax Evasion Whistleblower’ Dies in Swiss Jail

Something is fishy in Switzerland. What was this whistleblower doing in jail? How did he die? If he had taken his own life, or died of natural causes, would the authorities refuse to give out any further information on the incident. Maybe someone slipped by calling this an incident…

An Austrian tax evasion whistleblower has been found dead in his prison cell, a local newspaper has claimed.


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 23:10 | 1649453 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Go forth, and alleviate some suffering:

You MUST understand:  "Our work, or your (Big Brother's) guns -- pick one, you CANNOT HAVE BOTH!"

Fri, 09/09/2011 - 00:17 | 1649579 baltbear
baltbear's picture

Mathematics will also not give a shit if the urban poor stop burning down their own neighborhoods and go find fresh fuel supplies in grosse point.

   Mathematics also does not give a shit about definitions of "we" where "we" = less than all of the planet.


 It's a passionless, neutered trick for making things into whatever someone wants them to be, especially when words with no mathematical value, such as "fleeing" are introduced.



Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:25 | 1646538 VogonPoet
VogonPoet's picture

don't worry grandma will continue to collect factors above what she paid in. that is until the baby boomers die off.

these people would have jobs if minimum wage was eliminated. i have plenty of work to hire people to do, but people on govt support won't take those jobs, and the govt won't let me or others hire people to do them at the rates I am willing to pay. so i'll keep my money, thank you very much.

just wait until the robots arrive, everyone will be on perpetual welfare.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:36 | 1646592 knukles
knukles's picture

Uh... Methinks Grandma will be dead before the Baby Boomers Die Off...

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 14:16 | 1647033 Christophe2
Christophe2's picture

Wow, how nice of you: you'll pay people slave labor wages like the Chinese?  Truly magnanimous!


If you make minimum wage, you can't afford health insurance or other necessities for yourself and your family (even at 12hrs/day 7/days a week).  I wouldn't accept such a raw deal - would you?


How about realizing that inflation doesn't count food anymore, and that prices for basic foodstuffs have increased 15-60% in one year (2009-2010)?  Minimum wage today is almost certainly going to set you below the poverty line, and you think it's too high?  Why the hell are we competing with slave labor?  It is a race to the bottom, and self-centered pricks like you don't even get how that affects you too, inevitably.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 17:32 | 1647873 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



are you a Jew?

Cause You sound like a dirty Jew..

how much you wanna pay Jew Boy?

$0.05 an hour to polish your knob?

"O" I forgot You Jews can Cheat us Gentiles..

well why not say you will pay a lot and then just stiff the workers!!

maybe you could find something just not perfect and execute some claw backs! or.. dock their pay!

How is the trailer park treating you?

take the man out of the trailer but you will never get the trailer out of the man!


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 23:13 | 1649460 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Ooh, I know, let's just raise minimum wage to $200/hr!  Check your premises, because there's a flaw in your logic.

"Economics in One Lesson", ISBN:  978-0-517-54823-3, by Henry Hazlitt

The minimum wage issue has already been analyzed for you, AND no messengers were attacked in the process!

Fri, 01/27/2012 - 17:19 | 2103878 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

Reducing labor cost is fine in concert with scaled income subsidies with increased subsidies for each hour worked in a month.  In the absence of such a scheme, the incentives aren't structured to encourage working for the bottom 40%.  

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:39 | 1646612 pettolicious
pettolicious's picture

You and grandma are welcome to move up north and live with me.   You can mow my lawn and grandma can cook me some chicken pot pie.   Maybe you should have spent some of the money you earned on something other than SPAM and ammo.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 13:05 | 1646694 lemonobrien
lemonobrien's picture

you don't really give a shit about those people in Africa; pull you head out ya ass boy; countries/nations... those are just the boundaries of the different farms.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 13:39 | 1646832 Hacksaw
Hacksaw's picture

Looks Like the zero head favorite got the finger from Perry last night . Caption this pic. I'll start it off.

Now Ron, don't start that crazy libertarian crap with me.


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 15:22 | 1647349 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

WTF?  Is that a log scale? 

RP better start watching himself in the hot tub and on airplanes. . .

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:01 | 1646442 Kayman
Kayman's picture

Speaking of circuses:

"Ten years after al Qaeda's attack on the United States, the vast majority of the 9/11 Commission's investigative records remain sealed at the National Archives in Washington, even though the commission had directed the archives to make most of the material public in 2009, Reuters has learned."

Obviously, the serfs can't handle the truth about the Fed, 9/11, you name it.  Now eat your pablum...

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:22 | 1646522 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Hah Kayman, I guess the National Archives in washington just might be the target of, ummmm, an accidental fire maybe? What with small plane risks and all that humbug recently floated by the DHS.

Just like so much was destroyed in the building 7 collapse/pull/whatever.

Stinks, I tell ya.


Hey America!!!

Fri, 09/09/2011 - 00:21 | 1649585 baltbear
baltbear's picture

Speaking of 911, the hedgies and their running dogs did 5 times as much damage to America in 2008 as did Al Qaeda. Where's Seal Team 6 when they're actually needed?

Fri, 09/09/2011 - 00:21 | 1649586 baltbear
baltbear's picture

Speaking of 911, the hedgies and their running dogs did 5 times as much damage to America in 2008 as did Al Qaeda. Where's Seal Team 6 when they're actually needed?

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:32 | 1646333 j0nx
j0nx's picture

Purveyors of truth will not be tolerated in the United States of Amerika. All dissenters will be rounded up and reeducated in the kamps. You're either with us or against us. /S

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 23:15 | 1649466 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

"Only a Sith deals in absolutes..." -- Obi Wan Kenobi

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:49 | 1646394 economessed
economessed's picture

You're measuring CNBC up against a standard of serious journalism, but it is not a journalistic/news enterprise.  It is an entertainment enterprise.

This clip is unequivocal evidence of that conclusion -- there is no effort to objectively convey facts to educate or inform -- it's all about drama, opinion and sensationalism.  They methodically try to capitvate their audience with thunderous sound vignettes, computer generated graphics, outrageous dialog, sex appeal, purient content, and manufactured controversy. 

CNBC is an entertainment venue with a business/economics theme.  Their purpose is to sell advertising for a profit.  They don't care about the well-being of their viewers, and they have no accountability for their content. 

That said, I admire Mr. Santelli for his candor, but he is very much out of place in that environment as has been noted in the comments above.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:35 | 1646587 LongShortSally
LongShortSally's picture

Oh for Pete's sake Santelli's role is part of the plan.  I'm sure CNBS management has encouraged Santelli to stir up the pot for pure entertainment value. You see it with the inane sparring between himself and Liesman. Pure WWF if you ask me. Santelli couldn't (or wouldn't) defend his characterization of SS as a Ponzi scheme with a fact-based discussion.  He's as complicit as the rest of them.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 15:34 | 1647399 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

The argument was one of semantics anyhow.   When defining a true Ponzi scheme, it does involve a knowing intent to defraud.   The kicker is that what the gov't is doing with the Social Security funds would be illegal if you or I were doing it.   Therein lies the problem.   The person/entity committing the act defines whether or not it is criminal in nature.  

Gov't = no.  You = yes.

See?  It's just semantics.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 13:26 | 1646794 Kayman
Kayman's picture

"I'm Outsourcing Jack Welcher and I swallow, er, watch CNBS "

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 13:51 | 1646926 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

This clip is unequivocal evidence of that conclusion -- there is no effort to objectively convey facts to educate or inform -- it's all about drama, opinion and sensationalism. They methodically try to capitvate their audience with thunderous sound vignettes, computer generated graphics, outrageous dialog, sex appeal, purient content, and manufactured controversy.

CNBC is an entertainment venue with a business/economics theme. Their purpose is to sell advertising for a profit. They don't care about the well-being of their viewers, and they have no accountability for their content.


Indeed, indeed. It is all a show.

But you know, when you are battling to promote an option while pushing down others, when you are over and successful, you end with the option you promoted and the options you did not manage to eliminate.

It is all a show, true to US spirit, that is monetizing conflict.

A question hangs: Has the US world order the capacity to provide a framework to discuss, to debate?

While all these shows are doing what they are doing, it is also because they can not do otherwise.

The US has killed the possibility of debate.

The issue for US citizens is simple: a debate points at them as the main actors behind the stage and the current state of the world.

They do not want this and will keep filling the gap with their shows.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 15:36 | 1647409 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Faced with the choice between changing one's mind and proving that there is no need to do so, almost everyone gets busy on the proof. - John Kenneth Galbraith

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 15:39 | 1647419 Rick64
Rick64's picture

Great quote.

Sat, 02/18/2012 - 23:50 | 2174256 Upswaller
Upswaller's picture

Haven't seen you much, Rocky, glad to see you around.  :-)

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:20 | 1646275 Azannoth
Azannoth's picture

When Rick asked him 'if SS was a Ponzi scheme' the fat guy made a face like he was thinking ".. can people see my fat body through my clothes..?"

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:46 | 1646373 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture




I find it absolutely hilarious that a bunch of Republican reptiles are debating in the Ronald Reagan library, nearly falling to their knees in worship of him, and, simultaneously, having a discussion on whether social security is a ponzi scheme.  

The irony!


In 1983, Ronald Reagan conspired with Alan Greenspan to completely FUCK OVER the American middle class, through a substantial SS tax hike. This was enacted under the guise that it would create SS surpluses over the next 30 years to pay for the huge retirement needs of the baby boomers.  As soon as the baby boomers began to retire, these surpluses would be needed to offset the huge SS deficits when the baby boomers began to draw down their money.  

Then, in 1985, just as soon as the first surpluses began to accumulate, the money was surreptitiously shifted out of the SS reservoir, put into a general revenue fund, and spent (!) on various government programs which the Reagan tax cuts could no longer pay for.  


That's how Ronald Reagan supposedly cut income taxes and still balanced the budget.  And every president thereafter has participated in this theft.  

Now, 30 years later, we're standing in the Reagan library, worshipping the man, and trying to figure out how to solve the SS crises at our doorstep.  

Republicans!  They're almost as hilarious as the libertarians, but not quite.   


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:50 | 1646398 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Funny how you NEVER NEVER EVER criticize Democrats, even though they also participated in these shenannigans.

Also funny how you piss all over libertarians all day and night even as you agree with them about how crappy Republicans are.

I think you are a slave to labels.  If something has the wrong label, you hate it, no matter what.  Libertarians got confounded with republicans in your eyes, so you hate them now, even though when you first got here as an earler screen name, you JUST hated Republicans.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:02 | 1646449 HCSKnight
HCSKnight's picture

Democrats didnt participate, they were the ones who did it.  RR had no control or ability to stop it.

All the good information available on 0H can't hide the fact that most are simply progressive-anarchists who are really no more intelligent about history, economics, or man than the progressive-liberals...

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 14:17 | 1647037 squid_pro_quo
squid_pro_quo's picture

F*#k the dems and the repubs - but the point is that SS if FINE. If they can print $5 trillion for the banks they can print a few hundred billion for SS.


BTW Santelli is one of the few people who can make Friedman look intelligent. I enjoyed his "late 2008 rant", but I'm sorry to say it - Santelli is a blowhard.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 17:39 | 1647891 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



Yeah! No one pick on the Dem's! waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa my pussy hurts! waaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa


Obama $656 Million LOBBY Dollars! Obama Let the FED Print 1/2 a Trillion since Jan 1 2011


now quit yer bitchin!


Back to whats really important.. other than the ex-Repub's having a moment..

U.S. Army Pys Ops Verse U.S. Congressmen & Senators Lobby $'s = Gov $'s? Yes!! Bank $'s? Yes!!

Wells Fargo Lobby!! Buy Congress and the Senate

Bank of America Lobby Dollars*** PLUS***

JP Morgan has so Many Names to Lobby with JP Morgan 1 thru ?? Can Lobby The MAX, PER!

Goldman Sachs has how many names to Lobby with? Not as Many as JP Morgan!!

Where do these Banks get the Money to Lobby with? The Government Silly Goose!

TARP $700 Billion, Un-Employment Benefits Cost $2 Billion a Month.. thats 29 years worth of Unemployment Benefits! + Trillions of $s 2 Banks Who owns the Federal Reserve? The FED Reserve Bank is a Private Corporation!!! WAKE! UP!

U.S. dollar Liquidity Swap Arrangements

FOMC Oversite Notably, the structure described here can be changed by Congress.

Open Market Operations / Free Money Bitchez!! *(for Wall Street / Bankers Only)*

Rush Limbaughs House, Go Pay Him a Visit!! He Sucks!! Ask Him why at Home!

Canada / US Secret Cross Border Military Deal Ben-o-Cide & InfiniTimmy Printing 2 the Moon! Bitchez!!

How about the share holders of the U.S. Federal Reserve whom have offshore trusts that take Money from the U.S. Tax Payer??

JP Morgan has so Many Names to Lobby with They can give the legal limit in each name can Lobby The MAX


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 23:35 | 1649512 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

The Six Problems With Modern Progressive/Socialism

1) You really didn't learn everything you needed to know in kindergarten:  Progressive/Socialists love to think of themselves as sophisticated, nuanced intellectuals, but the truth is they have a kindergartner's view of the world.  If it has been defined as "nice" to people they like, they're for it.  If it has been defined as "mean" to people they like, they're against it -- and that is about as deep as it gets.  Unfortunately, that lack of adult perspective isn't so cute in political leaders who are making life and death decisions that may still have ramifications fifty years from now.

2) "Progressive/Socialists hate religion because politics is a religion substitute for Progressive/Socialists and they can't stand the competition." -- Ann Coulter:  Somewhat ironically, given the hostile relationship that has developed between the Left and Christianity, Progressive/Socialist beliefs have more in common with religious doctrine than a political agenda.  There is no significant debate on the Left about the aims of their agenda -- and the only "sins" believers can commit against their religion are no longer being politically useful, deviating from doctrine, or worst of all, cooperating with conservatives in some fashion.  No matter how much evidence piles up that big government doesn't work, that welfare destroys families, and that socialism doesn't bring prosperity, it makes no impact on Progressive/Socialists because their dogma is based on faith, not logic.

3) "It is not human nature we should accuse but the despicable conventions that pervert it." -- Denis Diderot:  There is no dream more eternal in the Progressive/Socialist heart than completely remaking human nature.  If we could all just care about the person across the world as much as we do our families, we could live in a utopia! Unfortunately, in practice, human nature tends to be quite a bit more difficult to subvert than in the Progressive/Socialist imagination.  That's why, despite more than 5,000 years of human civilization, very little progress has been made in this area - but, oh, the Left is still trying.  One day, if they just spend enough money on the right government programs, all the wars will end and everyone will be living in identical million dollar mansions while we spend our days humming tunes from the latest Woodstock Tribute Album.

4) "Oh what a tangled web we weave, when at first we practice to deceive." -- Sir Walter Scott: Like freaky religious cults, Progressive/Socialists have become adept at hiding their more abhorrent views from the public until it's too late.  It's common to see Progressive/Socialists adamantly deny that they hold a position over and over again only to completely switch sides the moment they have one more vote than they need to pass legislation. Whether it's lying about their opponents or what they believe, honesty is certainly not considered to be the best policy on the Left.

5) "Why do you look at the speck of sawdust in your brother's eye and pay no attention to the plank in your own eye." -- Matthew 7:3-5: Despite the fact that Progressive/Socialists love few things better than to cry "hypocrisy," there is a rather bizarre disconnect between what modern Progressive/Socialists seem to believe about themselves and how they behave.  Progressive/Socialists believe that they're compassionate, but only with other people's money. They tie themselves in knots trying to come up with valid reasons why terrorists hate the United States, but they never give a moment's thought to whether the people who dislike them might have a point.  They pat themselves on the back for helping minorities, but never stop to consider that Progressive/Socialist policies have done more damage to black Americans in the last fifty years than the KKK could have done in a millennium.  Somehow, stunning hypocrisies of this sort, which are too numerous to recount, never seem to be bother anyone on the Left.

6) "Trust yourself. You know more than you think you do." -- Benjamin Spock:  It's great to have a healthy self-image, but there's not much to be said for thinking you're smarter than the collective wisdom and traditions passed down through human history just because you happen to read the Daily Kos.  Unbecoming arrogance of this sort permeates modern Progressive/Socialism.  The most grave of decisions are undertaken by the modern Left without the slightest regard for the potential consequences.  Past disasters created by similar bouts of whimsical thinking, of which there are many, are treated as acts of God untethered from mere human decision making and prompt no self reflection whatsoever.  That's because to the modern Progressive/Socialist, the real world results of their policies are secondary in importance to the amount of positive self-esteem generated by supporting that policy.

In summary, GROW UP!


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:45 | 1646376 Popo
Popo's picture

Friedman's response was about *legality*?  Lulz.

Friedman admitted it was unsustainable, and that the next generation would be the ones unable to sustain it.   (ie: ponzi scheme)

...right around then he started name-calling because he knew he had just dug himself into a hole.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:38 | 1646604 knukles
knukles's picture

+++  For Clarity...

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 17:41 | 1647902 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



Social Security is VERY Sustainable..

But we would have to collect Taxes from the Top 0.1%.. to be able to pay for Social Security..

and the AARP does not have a Lobby big enough to stop the elite rich of America, Sorry!

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 23:38 | 1649513 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Social Security is VERY Sustainable..

But we would have to collect Taxes from the Top 0.1%.. to be able to pay for Social Security.


So, your justification for supporting a Leviathan Govt is that we're simply NOT ROBBING the right people?  Check your premises.

Mon, 09/12/2011 - 16:35 | 1661244 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



So, your justification for supporting a Leviathan Govt is that we're simply NOT ROBBING the right people? Check your premises.

I am not advocating robbing anyone!

I am saying lets go get back our MONEY that was Robbed from us!

"We the People" have been robbed and "We the People" should get our money back!!

How is taking back what has been stolen from us? robbing the person who stole it to begin with?

I am a repo man not a thief!

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:55 | 1646414 Titus
Titus's picture

The emperor has no clothes. CLASSIC!

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 15:26 | 1647366 Citxmech
Citxmech's picture

This is turning out to be kinda like a cross between the "Wizard of Oz" and the "Emperor Has No Clothes," but in this version there's a naked guy pulling levers behind an invisible curtain. . .

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:10 | 1646433 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

he thought he said pastry scheme

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:22 | 1646524 caerus
caerus's picture


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:48 | 1646628 knukles
knukles's picture

And that was when Freidman lost it. 
Pastry!  Pastry!  You got Pastry!  I want Pastry!  Me me me gimme gimme gimme, Pastry!
Great way to distract the man's chain of thought.

Fuck... Just think of it.
The Powerhouse Intellectual Leadership of the NYT.
Paul Krugman
Tom Friedman
Maureen Dowd

The other Sunday at the grocery store (this be California, BTW) standing in line, the fellow in front of me had a NYT.  Bored to death straring at pictues of Snooki on the news rag, I was looking at his front page.  He turns to me and says something about "Are you like me, too?  I just can't wait to get my Sunday NYT!"
To which I responded.  "No, I've had enough intellectually bankrupt socialist propaganda for the week already, thanks"
I don't understand why he was upset.
Something I said?
Maybe my last response to his "huff" sound.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:54 | 1646656 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

Gotta add David Brooks to your "Murders' Row", who, sizing up Our Dear Proto-President, concluded he would be a great man since the crease in his trousers was so sharp. - Ned

Fri, 09/09/2011 - 11:56 | 1651062 janus
janus's picture

i redded you for making a good point....the ZH way!

arrow down, thinker!

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:18 | 1646515 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Excuuuuse me...are you insulting Thomas "Three Chins" Friedman???  (Or is that four now, I haven't been keeping up with Wall Street's number one lying bastard?)

While Friedman is pure BS and normally never tells the truth -- for once Santelli the douchebagger actually managed to catch Friedman in a truth-telling moment --- and negative to all you Peter G. Peterson/Sesame Streeters (look up its history and financial backing, morons) -- SS isn't structured like a Ponzi scheme, as if many here could actually differentiate between a Tontine scheme and a classic Ponzi scheme, or distinguish that the American non-economy is structured as a Ponzi-Tontine scam?

Now, what's really weird is that TD keeps going on about something he calls the "Keynesian model" -- when clearly anyone with two neurons to rub together realizes America has been wallowing and devolving in a "Milton Friedman model" since at least the '80s -- thanks mainly to the Reagan-Bush-Clinton-Bush-Obama continuum.

Oh yeah....and for anyone new to Thomas "four chins" Friedman --- he's the scumbagger who has promoted the offshoring of all of the production assets, and capital assets, then turns around and shouts, "Oh no....America's offshored its product assets (jobs, factories, etc.) and capital assets (direct and indirect foreign investment, etc.) --- may his obesity forever rot in Hell!

'Nuff said......

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:35 | 1646590 Dr. Kenneth Noi...
Dr. Kenneth Noisewater's picture

Dude's got more chins than a Chinese phone book..

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 13:12 | 1646734 sheeple2012
sheeple2012's picture

and what's with the cheesy 80's mustache? is he trying to look cool or maybe it's a flavor saver?

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:07 | 1646194 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

I didn't know people thought it wasn't a ponzi scheme?

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:13 | 1646237 Tator
Tator's picture

Same dad told me back in 1972 it was a ponzi scheme and to not plan on it being there for me when I retire. Since then I have never met anyone, if intellectually honest, who didn't think it was a ponzi scheme.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:19 | 1646271 Mactheknife
Mactheknife's picture

It's like trying to get the Bernank to admit that gold is money..ain't gonna happen.  Gotta love Santelli...gettem Rick!

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:03 | 1646453 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

it's almost as bad as "50 year bonds"

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:26 | 1646549 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Used to be the pay to receive ratio was about 10:1, now I think the ratio of pay to receive is close to 2:1.  That means that two tax paying workers are supporting one social security recepient.  Even Bernie Madoff knew he needed fresh money to keep paying older "investors".  How can you not see social security as a Ponzi?  Not only is it a Ponzi, the people runing it have stolen the fresh money which needs to be paid out. 

Plus, how the hell could Fox Business hire Dennis Kneal instead of Rick Santelli?  Maybe when Rick's contract is up, he will jump off this ship of fools?

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:21 | 1646520 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

That would be the same dad who voted for Goldwater, read the Koch family's Liberty Lobby, and urged you to vote for anyone named Reagan or Bush.

Gee whiz, isn't Bush's daughter married to someone named Koch?

Didn't Cheney's godson, DJ Gribbin IV, bounce back and forth between Koch Energy and the DOT?  (Now Gribbin's doing the "lord's work" promoting the privatization of every toll road in Amerika!)

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:33 | 1646338 Syrin
Syrin's picture

If you heard any of the debates last night, you would have learned that the media and Karl Rove don't believe it's a Ponzi scheme.  Unbelievable.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:09 | 1646208 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

zilv , did you give urself the green arrow or was it friedman?

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:13 | 1646227 takeaction
takeaction's picture

GENTLEMEM......we have a problem.  (Off Topic)  PLease look at this.  During commercial break on last nights debate it looks like Rick Perry grabs Ron Paul and threatens him.  Please look!  GET YOUR DIRTY HANDS OFF RON PAUL!! (Note in stories around the net Ron Pauls bodyguard came to the scene, you see him with hand on podium, back to us)  We are waiting for what was said.  RON....SLAP THAT BITCH!!

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:31 | 1646329 HCSKnight
HCSKnight's picture

I'm hearing the MSM/Dems will "attack" Perry on "personal homosexual" angles.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:34 | 1646344 Syrin
Syrin's picture

How can they do that?   They are the gay pride party!  That's a key part of their base.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:01 | 1646445 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Gays that are closeted and bash gays for political advantage are not well liked by gays.  Closeted gays are also ripe for extortion.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:07 | 1646466 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

priests without robes  

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 23:43 | 1649520 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

And you know this because...?

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 08:01 | 1654100 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Because I have gay friends and a brain.  And now you know it, too.  I hope you don't feel too unclean talking to someone who talks to gays.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:35 | 1646350 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

I don't know. Seems "low-wattage psychopath" could work.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:26 | 1646551 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Many years ago, when I served in the US military, every single Texan I ever came in contact with thought the "circle jerk" of boys was a normal event during their teen years.

I suspect the majority of Texan males are homos -- and Perry sure takes exceptional care of his hair.....need I say more?

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 14:00 | 1646966 NidStyles
NidStyles's picture

Perry didn't grow up in Texas.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 15:43 | 1647444 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

That would be true -- since he hasn't yet grown up.   Just gotten older.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 15:42 | 1647440 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

I hear that the soggy biscuit originated in San Antonio.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:40 | 1646369 DonnieD
DonnieD's picture

Perry is explaining to Ron Paul that he has unlimited cash from BAC and that he should give up now.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:07 | 1646465 TheBadgersSett
TheBadgersSett's picture

Perry tries to outfox Ron Paul with the ace up his sleeve

'Hey Ron, pull my finger! Teehee'

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 13:14 | 1646740 steelhead23
steelhead23's picture

Can't tell much from a photo but I would suggest that Ron Paul is unlikely to select Rick as his running mate when he wins the nomination.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:12 | 1646230 Mitzibitzi
Mitzibitzi's picture

So a system that you can't opt out of, and was originally designed NOT to pay out until 3 years after the average worker was dead (Damn you, healthcare and nutrition!), was set up for the population's benefit?

I doubt anyone is stoopid enough to really believe that, so you must be a paid shill, no?

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:36 | 1646353 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

NO there's documents that say quite literally that social security is a semi legal tax fraud. Documents from it's inception. Which is why it's always completely and I mean competely unfunded. Borrowing against it is simply a deception slight of hand because in thier mind it's a tax and they aren't borrowing they are taking with no intent to repay.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:32 | 1646576 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Gee, I would think a far more important topic might be the absolute destruction of the American tax base, thanks in part to Thomas "Four Chins" Friedman promoting the offshoring of America.

Yup, there's only a finite number of jobs, and once those manufacturing, and engineering, and science R&D, and programming, and call center, and attorney researcy, and auditing, and .....etc., etc. are offshored, the tax base dwindles.

Which was why Mexico and South Korea dominated the 2010 Robogames --- they still make stuff in those countries, although jobs have been fleeing Mexico lately as well (Mexico probably came in first as they are the more populous country).

Four consecutive summers of alling movie theater revenues.

Seven consecutive quarters of falling Walmart revenues (although I'm kinda glad to see that finally happen, alas..).

Far greater concentration of wealth, and disparaty, than during the 1930s.

Do the numbers, fools.......

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 13:21 | 1646771 Hephasteus
Hephasteus's picture

What are you talking about destruction of the tax base.

I sat right here yesterday and listened to the guy that runs my states taxes say they collected 10 billion in august up 15 percent from last year. Of course there only about 4 million people in the entire state. Which means they collected over 2500 bucks from every citizen in one month in taxes. Which of course is utterly rediculous nonsense. But this guy is not in a treatment program for early onset dimensia.

They haven't needed or used the population for tax collection in ages. They simply counterfeit at all levels. Shovel money into states, corporations, you name it. If it's big and important it get's counterfeit privelages. And they won't even try to make it make any sense. Of course the guy could have meant 10 billion for the entire year which is 2500 or 10 billion for the year to date. But if they only collect 10 billion in taxes in an entire year why are they building 10 billion worth of roads.

If you think mexico and any of the countries are not completely globalized already you are crazy. The satellites mexico use for cell phones and weather are launched by us here. Use the same rohs compliance that makes them grow tin whiskers and fail.

If you believe in tax payers or bullshit about taxpayer burden then you don't understand. We've moved so far beyond that and it's simply a game of pretend to be legitimate followed by massive currency devalutions which mean get the labor destroy the savings. Get the labor destroy the savings. 

So can I interest you in one of our attractive compensation packages with full dental and medical to assist you in retirement expediation.

I've done the numbers from barrels of oil used per day to killowatts of electricity a person "consumes" to how many chips intel sells. And they are all complete and utter fucking lies which don't add up. Because it's lies under layer of lies. If US says it's uses 4 times more oil than it does then it makes somoene who sells us oil think they are not supplying much and not that important. If the power companies make us think power is cheap but they completely lie about how much we use then it doesn't matter.

The numbers are just things that are made up. The computers collect some numbers but they aren't actually used. The numbers used are all entered to match the illusion the centrally planned and coordinated system wants us to believe.

And nobody gives a fuck who watched Avatar or how much money it made. Because that too was completely made up anyway. The IT revolution is not about making us better informed or having better information. It's about making us more lied to and more deceived by making it seem credible that we have the equipement and technology to actually rely on the made up numbers.

Numbers. What you know about numbers sargent? Until you can crawl up peoples asshole and use thier spine as an abacus you won't know anything about numbers. The good is half as good the bad is 20 times as worse. Porportion and weight and reality aren't even considered in a game of credibility.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:17 | 1646251's picture

Of course it's a Ponzi scheme. Money is taken from investors, no profitable  investment is made with the money but rather early investors are paid off by the contributions of new investors. As the number of new investors drops payments to the old investors become unsustainable.

Case closed.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:36 | 1646352 Syrin
Syrin's picture

This is the most accurate and concise explanation I have read.


Thanks.   I'll use your words when debating those who lack an attention span longer than 4 sentences.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:00 | 1646437 Antipodeus
Antipodeus's picture

Aw -- come on! Everything's good -- Eazy-peesy to fix.  No problemo.  See, the Government just has to pay back the money it 'borrowed' from the SS Trust Fund, by buying back those special SS Bonds ... with USD .... from taxes ..... from tax-payers ..... OH ....... Shit! ... ;=((


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 17:43 | 1647911 JW n FL
JW n FL's picture



Social Security is VERY Sustainable..

But we would have to collect Taxes from the Top 0.1%.. to be able to pay for Social Security..

and the AARP does not have a Lobby big enough to stop the elite rich of America, Sorry!

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 21:10 | 1649017's picture

My mom cancelled her AARP membership when they went along with Obama's health plan. Maybe if they'd stop selling out their own members and focused on things which regular folks actually want they'd do better.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:30 | 1646570 RichardP
RichardP's picture

That is a good description of a ponzi scheme.  However, it is not even close as a description of Social Security.  Wikipedia can give you good description of ponzi and social security and the differences between them if you are interested in accuracy.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 15:49 | 1647473 Usotsuki
Usotsuki's picture

If you read the Wikipedia entry and that convinced you it wasn't a ponzi scheme then you are much dumber than i thought you were...


"No true Ponzi scheme can be sustained indefinitely, whereas Social Security's benefits can always be sustained by raising additional taxes."


The fact that it must be sustained by increasing taxes proves it is a ponzi scheme; and the worst kind because you are forced into participation.  Just read the SS pamphlet from 1936 and inform yourself:

What you get from the Government plan will always be more than you have paid in taxes and usually more than you can get for yourself by putting away the same amount of money each week in some other way.”

The Social Security scheme will die as surely as Madoff's scheme did.  The question is how will it end?  You can't fix the system because the next crop of politicians will simply break it again.  The only real "fix" is ending it once and for all...

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 13:30 | 1646811 LongShortSally
LongShortSally's picture

Re: "no profitable  investment is made...Case closed."  Perhaps not all investments are measured in dollars and cents when you are dealing with peoples' lives and well-being.  Then again, I suspect you could quantify financial a return to our society by providing a safety net for those who genuinely need it.  Not saying there hasn't been waste.  Not saying there haven't been misallocations.  Just saying you can't always put a dollar figure on ROI.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 16:02 | 1647534's picture

There you go again.  I give more than I can afford to various charities. I'd give even more but one government agency or another takes half of every dollar I earn.

What makes you believe that only government can provide a safety net? In fact government wastes money on a colossal scale and has little regard for human life. The half dozen wars the US is currently engaged in to no good purpose should tell you that.

You are the uncharitable one because you believe that charity should come only from government in their bid to buy votes. Why do you wish to exploit poor people?

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:17 | 1646257 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

zilverreiger said: of course its not a ponzi scheme (though some implementations might be)

Yes, it is. It's simply a transparent Ponzi scheme to anyone who actually knows how it works, which means that to the vast majority of typically ignorant citizens, it's exactly the same thing as a fraudulent Ponzi scheme because they have no clue as to how it works:

"One criticism of the analogy is that while Ponzi schemes and Social Security have similar structures (in particular, a sustainability problem when the number of new people paying in is declining), they have different transparencies. In a Ponzi scheme the fact there is no return generating mechanism beyond just contributions from new entrants is obscured whereas Social Security payouts have always been openly underwritten by incoming tax revenue."

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:18 | 1646259 brian0918
brian0918's picture

Agreed, it is not a Ponzi scheme. It is WORSE, because it is legal, and everyone is forced to participate. At least in a Ponzi scheme, you have to be foolish enough to volunteer your cash, and there are legal repercussions when the scheme is revealed. Neither is the case for Social Security.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:21 | 1646278 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

Yes, it is, it's just a transparent one.  See my post above.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:45 | 1646381 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Your points do not negate the fact that it is a Ponzi scheme. They just show that it the worst type of Ponzi. As far as the volunteer part goes, FDR was every bit as involved in selling this scheme to the rubes as was Mr. Ponzi with his. Wrapping it all up in legislation means nothing, except to add a layer of false legitimacy to it.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 14:35 | 1647109 Winston Smith 2009
Winston Smith 2009's picture

I never said it did.  Quite the opposite as you would have seen if you'd even glanced at my prior comment that I referred to.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:15 | 1646502 DaveyJones
DaveyJones's picture

It's a Fonzie scheme. Most thought it was cool when it came out, now it's more than embarassing

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:18 | 1646261 Paul Bogdanich
Paul Bogdanich's picture

The thing that made it a pyramid scheme was the paygo provisions (where they spend the current receipts and fund obligations out of current receipts)  Had they kept the excess receipts it would be a marginally solvent system in need of minor less than 5% reform.  Instead we wasted the money on mostly wars and a few ill advised tax cuts  thrown in (over the last 30 years) and if my aunt had balls she would be my uncle.  So in its current condition its a pyramid scheme.  

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:39 | 1646364 InconvenientCou...
InconvenientCounterParty's picture

People seem to enjoy manipulating language is ways that veil the truth and impede understanding.

Corporate revenue growth is a ponzi.

Pensions are a ponzi.

Political campaigns are a ponzi.

Lotteries are a ponzi

The human race is a ponzi.

...and for kicks? everyone that doesn't agree with me is a socialist Marxist fascist Keynesian retarded Nazi

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:56 | 1646420 spankfish
spankfish's picture

Godwin's Law

Mon, 09/12/2011 - 16:15 | 1646783 narnia
narnia's picture

of course social security & medicare are ponzi schemes.  the people who originally took benefits didn't pay into it.  the people who are taking benefits now didn't contribute anywhere near enough to pay for what they will take out.  

if SS & medicare are not ponzi schemes, then we must (1) have $60 trillion in the SS & medicare trust funds to cover the present value of the promises or (2) have no intention of delivering the current scope of services.   

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 14:13 | 1647022 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture


Social Security is a mandatory FICA tax on labor to put an income floor on the future to which risk takers and risk avoiders agree on. It belongs front and center for confidence in the economy. If the SSA is to survive, they don't need politician fixers any more than the private corporation of member banks FED, not governmental agency, nor function of Congress need to pretend the scope-creep dual mandate of full employment only since late 70's didn't set up the corporate fleecian R. Reagan

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 14:35 | 1647111 The Alarmist
The Alarmist's picture

Like all things done by Congress, it is exempt from being characterized for what it really is. It really is that simple. Congress is even above the laws of gravity.

Back to your oar, slave!

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 17:19 | 1647829 eureka
eureka's picture

Words, words, words - semantic squabbles are for idiots - meaning today, here, a lot of zerohedge reader commentators who can't think beyond their personal greed and miserliness and anti tax rhetoric and pseudo freedom garbble while still supporting US empire.

Social Security can and need to and will be "fixed" - and or reconfigured - whatever - because if the US does NOT have a program that gurantees a minimum of dignity for its old people, but continues to blow $trillions on the satanic war machine and military empire - ALL in order to serve Wall Street and ITS owners - then the US has become the wholy UNholy empire of satan himself - and I and millions other will personally blow it to smithereens and anyone with it who defends the satanic US capital collectivist elite and all its pathetic pseudo patriotic moron slave minions.

Santelli AND freedman - are BOTH IDIOTS.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 10:56 | 1646123 WALLST8MY8BALL
WALLST8MY8BALL's picture

 "I don’t think it is a Ponzi scheme as a criminal endeavor."

Ok so it's Ponzi Scheme as Policy!

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:01 | 1646159 caerus
caerus's picture

yeah it's kinda hard for it to be a criminal endeavor when the perpetrators of the ponzi are the ones who decide what's criminal

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:41 | 1646368 Libertarians fo...
Libertarians for Prosperity's picture




Thu, 09/08/2011 - 15:48 | 1647469 RockyRacoon
RockyRacoon's picture

Does that mean you aren't coming  back?

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:07 | 1646199 Rick64
Rick64's picture

If the government wasn't raiding it and taking its funds and allocating it elswhere would it be a ponzi scheme? BTW Rick didn't say your idiotic he said "your answer is idiotic".

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:11 | 1646225 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

If a person gives an idiotic answer, there is a strong likelyhood they are an idiot.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:19 | 1646267 Transformer
Transformer's picture

If Social Security played out like it was supposed to, then you could call it a Ponzi Scheme.  But, what was planned all along, and done since the very beginning was to take the money paid into social security and use it in the general fund, replacing the money with now worthless special Tbills.  The plan could have been called a Ponzi, but before that could happen, congress stole the money.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:30 | 1646325 11b40
11b40's picture

....or simply a liar.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:47 | 1646388 Rick64
Rick64's picture

So if you've ever answered a question with an idiotic answer then you're an idiot? I guess by that definition most of us are idiots.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:00 | 1646438 Pladizow
Pladizow's picture

You said "ever", I said "strong likelyhood".

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:19 | 1646517 Tidewater
Tidewater's picture

Transcript's still wrong.

Great clip... I'm surprised they keep Santelli around. Doesn't Liesman have a twin sister who could act dumb and look stupid?

Wouldn't be surprised if they swap Santelli out, say in the name of diversity. Any shill will do.

There'd be a brief outcry, of course, then... nothing.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 12:37 | 1646600 sgt_doom
sgt_doom's picture

Oh wow!  I've heard of mortality swaps, and survivor swaps and longevity swaps, and of course, credit default swaps (naked, covered, etc.), but a "Santelli swap"???

That would be nice......

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 13:25 | 1646785 Blano
Blano's picture

Please bring back your old avatar.  Thank you for complying.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:17 | 1646247 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

i would think our entire fiat system is a ponzi works until there is less coming in than going out.  since our system is debt based and debt needs more debt to sustain  itself....and it would be more accurate to call it the ivar kreuger scheme..

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 16:39 | 1647691 Rick64
Rick64's picture

 Everything within our system is doomed because of the ponzi fiat policy, but does that make each program within it a ponzi scheme or a victim of it?

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:04 | 1646124 Cognitive Dissonance
Cognitive Dissonance's picture



Rick Santelli Tells Arch Globalization Advocate Friedman He Is An Idiot

For crying out loud Santelli, tell us something we don't already know.


Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:15 | 1646239 Don Birnam
Don Birnam's picture

The most reprehensible of CNBC entertainers is without question, that Official Scribe of the Governing Plutocracy, the obsequious Andrew Ross Sorkin. 

Every time his smarmy Cornell grin appears on the screen, the image of Uriah Heep comes to mind.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:56 | 1646418 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture





Thanks for the chuckles.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 10:57 | 1646127 FubarNation
FubarNation's picture

F Friedwoman.  I'm really surprised they keep Rick around. I'm glad they do but he is exposing all the bullshit that CNBS propagates.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:11 | 1646224 rich_maverick
rich_maverick's picture

Rick has been the only sane person on CNBS for a very long time.  Sadly, I fear that at some point, he will just piss someone off and either get him off the air, or worse, cause some king of accident to take place.  Fact is that killing the messenger has been "standard practice" in politics for centuries.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:21 | 1646284 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

Rick Santelli could be a talk radio host that could rival all others instantly. He would make a lot more money too.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:14 | 1646242 Libertarian777
Libertarian777's picture

esp. since he's the only guy on CNBC who'll tell Steve LIES-man to his face he's full of BS

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:21 | 1646282 WSP
WSP's picture

I think CNBS has figured out that the only people that watch it already know our entire financial system is one big fiat ponzi scheme casino and their only goal is to "game it" because that is what they do.  I think financial manipulation and fiat ponzi represents about 50% of our economy now?  Regardless, it is at least 25% according to government numbers but I suspect it is higher, and less than 1% of the population even bother to watch CNBS.

The bottom line is the banks have won.  They control our educational institutions, they fund the "research", they fund "economic policy", they fund pretty everything.  You have 99% of the sheeple that cannot even balance their own checkbook, the other 1% know it is a rigged ponzi scheme but they are on the right side of the trade looting the other 99% so all is well in fiat ponzi scheme casino land.

Listen, all of us can get as angry as we want---the FACT IS NOTHING WILL CHANGE----ABSOLUTELY NOTHING.  The corrupt kleptocrats and banking oligarch control us, they control what we watch, what we read, they manipulate everything so they don't have a problem putting up a Rick Santelli to make us "feel" like we have a say----WE DON'T.

I know this has been posted before, but it sums it up quite nicely in a funny way courtesy of the late George Carlin:

Hang it up folks.  Either jump on the fiat ponzi scheme casino and gamble, become a member of the corrupt kleptocracy, or drop out.  We are all just wasting our time.  In history, there were ways to "throw the bums out" but with modern miliitary and technology, we are permanent serfs, plain and simple.



Thu, 09/08/2011 - 13:33 | 1646827 zerozulu
zerozulu's picture

Friedman does not surprise me. I wonder who is behind Rick?

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 14:16 | 1647034 ToNYC
ToNYC's picture


EF WHO will be the first mediac to die for ratings like Howard Beale in "Network" (1976)?

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 10:57 | 1646131 steve from virginia
steve from virginia's picture


Social Security is a ponzi scheme the same way the Futures Market is a ponzi scheme.

Particularly the gold and silver markets.



Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:54 | 1646410 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The whole US is a Ponzi scheme.

The US is based on an expansion scheme, that is a Ponzi scheme.

SS is just what they are able to raid at the moment. Expansionists need room to expand into.

SS is one of the places they have direct access right now...

The US is nothing but a Ponzi. One has just to look at the whole picture and select its peculiar Ponzi.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 10:58 | 1646132 TradingJoe
TradingJoe's picture

Ah Well Oh Dear! Talk is still cheap! Action is reqired!

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 10:58 | 1646133 max2205
max2205's picture

Ricks the man...he and I need to go to caffineaholics meetings

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 11:48 | 1646392 Transformer
Transformer's picture

And while you're there, you might check on the spelling.

Thu, 09/08/2011 - 10:58 | 1646134 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Is Social Security a Ponzi scheme?

Is the Federal Reserve Act of 1913 un-Constitutional?

I love rhetorical questions!

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