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Rick Santelli Tells Arch Globalization Advocate Friedman He Is An Idiot
Following today's New York Times invasion of CNBC, where two of its most irrelevant columnists are now part of CNBC's most irrelevant hourly block so at least it is symmetric, Rick Santelli and "The Earth is flat...but I sure am round" author Tom Friedman had a choice exchange of words which culminated with Rick Santelli finally telling the world's most overhyped patron saint of globalization the bitter truth. In the meantime, not even the very non-flat Friemdan had an answer to Santelli's very simple question: is Social Security a ponzi scheme... And while we are there, we wonder just what noun would be used to describe Friemdan if asked if the entire Keynesian model is an even bigger ponzi.
SANTELLI: I’d just like to know – you know, I was watching that debate last night, although it really wasn’t a debate,” Santelli said. “It was like a weird press conference. But I would like to know – does Mr. Friedman think Social Security is a Ponzi scheme?
FRIEDMAN: No, I don’t think it’s a Ponzi scheme.
SANTELLI: Earlier in the show you said that we’re putting the burden on our kids that’s unsustainable. What’s the definition of a Ponzi scheme?
FRIEDMAN: It’s a program that made promises that it cannot keep in full and it needs to be fixed and reformed.
SANTELLI: Isn’t that exactly what a Ponzi pyramid is?
FRIEDMAN: I don’t think it is a Ponzi scheme as a criminal endeavor.
SANTELLI: No, no – forget the criminal side. You need more people to perpetuate a myth because if the people stop the myth is known to all. That’s my definition of a Ponzi scheme. Let’s call at it chain letter, a pyramid scheme. Isn’t that by definition what Social Security is? Take the legalities and fraud out.
STEVE LIESMAN: Why is it a Ponzi scheme, Rick?
FRIEDMAN: It is pay as we go. Ronald Reagan fixed it. Why can’t we fix it?
SANTELLI: What does Ronald Reagan have to do with my question?
FRIEDMAN: What does your question have to do with reality?
MICHELLE CARUSO CABRERA: We brought it up.
SANTELLI: You can’t decide that more people is the only thing made Social Security work. We have a real issue because many people in government seem to like to read your work.
FRIEDMAN: What makes Social Security work is fixing Social Security in terms of the population demands.
SANTELLI: I didn’t ask if we should fix it or not. I asked if it’s a pyramid scheme.
FRIEDMAN: Your question is idiotic. That’s what you asked.
SANTELLI: You’re idiotic. I’m done. I feel good.
FRIEDMAN: So do I.
h/t DailyCaller
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If I die, my 401k goes to my heirs......what happens to my social security? SS is the worst, most cynical, most destructive ponzi scheme ever created. Regressive tax to the max and people actually think they can live off the little dribble that you get after paying 15% of your income in to it. Would be funny if it weren't for real.
I can see some sort of mandate to force people to save for their golden years, but this was worst idea in US history.
To inaccurately say Rick said Friedman was idiotic, instead of what he really said ('your answer is idiotic', in response to Friedman's "Your question is idiotic"), makes Rick look like a rude guy (which he isn't).
So there is a difference, it's more than semantics.
And when you put up a transcript, it should be accurate(it was in every other instance), so I doubt this is a case of sloppy editing).
It's misquoted in both the title of this post and the transcript, it clearly was intentional (probably to be more provocative).
For a blog that prides itself on truth telling, that's a double standard, and unsettling.
It always starts like this. One person disagree and than another person call them idiot and another say them thugs and criminals and walla. the republic stands against JEWS. This has happened more than 200 times before.
http://www.simpletoremember.com/articles/a/HistoryJewishPersecution/
I have my popcorn ready.
Rick is a decent guy but the truth is that he's installed there for CNBC to maintain or increase the viwership.
The age of reason brought down the rule of kings and popes. To be reasonable means that there is truth and that it is discoverable. By not acknowleging truth, by hiding truth by perpetuating falsehood, superstition, and that meaningless is reality that living is too complex for truth---works to the benefit of the royalty and popes. We need a Cromwell The Age of Enlightenment (or simply the Enlightenment or Age of Reason) was an elite cultural movement of intellectuals in 18th century Europe, that sought to mobilize the power of reason in order to reform society and advance knowledge. It promoted intellectual interchange and opposed intolerance and abuses in Church and state. Originating about 1650–1700, it was sparked by philosophers Baruch Spinoza (1632–1677), John Locke (1632–1704), and Pierre Bayle (1647–1706) and by mathematician Isaac Newton (1643–1727). Ruling princes often endorsed and fostered Enlightenment figures and even attempted to apply their ideas of government. The Enlightenment flourished until about 1790–1800, after which the emphasis on reason gave way to Romanticism's emphasis on emotion and a Counter-Enlightenment gained force. The center of the Enlightenment was France, where it was based in the salons and culminated in the great Encyclopédie (1751–72) edited by Denis Diderot (1713–1784) with contributions by hundreds of leading philosophes (intellectuals) such as Voltaire (1694–1778) and Montesquieu (1689–1755). Some 25,000 copies of the 35 volume set were sold, half of them outside France. The new intellectual forces spread to urban centers across Europe, notably England, Scotland, the German states, the Netherlands, Russia, Italy, Austria, and Spain, then jumped the Atlantic into the European colonies, where it influenced Benjamin Franklin and Thomas Jefferson, among many others, and played a major role in the American Revolution. The political ideals influenced the American Declaration of Independence, the United States Bill of Rights, the French Declaration of the Rights of Man and of the Citizen, and the Polish–Lithuanian Constitution of May 3, 1791.[1]
Wonder if he will get another suspension for being honest and true.
<----- SS is a ponzi Scheme
<----- SS is NOT a panzi scheme
It's not really ponzi scheme, while there are pyramid-esque attributes to it. If one would like to create a class called low-grade ponzi, or pyramid or something, then perhaps it would belong into a category like that.
It's controlled in the way that there is no top collecting everything, but an upper level that falls off when dead which doesn't collect more as more pay into it.
In a pyramid scheme, while sometimes there are retirements of when someone stops getting paid, untl then, everyone that pays in, gets a payment directly out of those funds. That's why there are(were) surpluses designed to be kept (not spent...whoops) for the times like these when there was a generational bubble makes it's way through. Of course given that wages are a few hundred percent below what they should be due to monetarist policies given the inflation caused by them, then yes social security becomes less
It's also relegated to one's life, not in a year or two timeperiod. Workers pay into it for about 2-3x what they get out of it. Of course some people pay into it and never get anything, others pay into it, and then get paid for the next 30 or so years if they live long enough. So while it does have ponzi-esque, pyramid-esque attributes, it also has many other attributes that differentiate it and make it managable.
So there are many differences between a pyramid scheme and social security. So calling it one, is just as much wrong as calling it NOT one. It's somewhere in between. That's the reality. It's not either/or, it's both. People have to reconcile that.
It's a workable construct, that treads the line, but still is fine for what it does. The reason it is 'failing' is all the structure around it....MONETARISM. When monetarism fails, and it HAS, EVERYTHING...EVERYTHING...fails around it, as a consequence.
Monetarism is failing social security, along with everything else. Look around, what isn't failing? Very little. In time even that will change to none.
All our economic policies are some form of monetarism, whether they be supply side, keynesian, or other. People know this, yet then they just want to switch to another monetarist scheme known as Austrian monetarism.
Neither of them got it right. But friedman from his specific monetarist viewpoint got it more wrong. Santelli sees what it gets close to, but not the differences between the two. There are signficant differences that changes it so it isn't a ponzi or pyramid. All that is needed is a constant replacement from younger people entering the workforce. It doesn't need an ever increasing number at a doubling rate, just replacement over the course of a life, not a small time period. It helps when there is a growth in population obviously, but even the smallest of increases is fine.
It's similar but different, but those differences are quite large. Now if population started contracting, THEN it could break down, if such trends persisted for a long enough time. If monetarism keeps ruling the roost, it can happen too. But without a long term decrease in population the model is sustainable without outside influences.
If given outside influences.. a monetarist induced selective targeting of policies to degrade social security (like free trade) or outright failure of the monetarist model (both of which ARE happening), then it can destroy social security as well.
There is no reason (other than bullshit propaganda that's flat wrong in a universe of space, resources, and technology available for us to develop) that mankind cannot maintain it's population if not keep growing it at a decent clip. There is no such thing as resource depletion, only our ability to reach or CREATE the resources. If we decide not to do anything to reach or create it, then we're fucking idiotic, and that would be a created imbalance, like starving to death because we didn't want to take our head out of the sand. It isn't natural, and didn't need to happen, but by golly if someone decided to do it, I'm sure they could.
But that would be just asinine given that we already have the ideas TO create them, and understand via science that there is other shit out there...and what do you know we've had the ability to send man to the moon for 42 years. The processing power of an Apple II, using 1960's materials got us to the moon. People are damn fools to think we can't mine H3 on the moon, or mine asteroids, or capture gas from gas giants, etc.
That said, without social security we WOULD be back to a large portion of the elderly population being destitute. That should not be a reality we force upon our elderly. Social security prevents that.
Of course monetarism does it's best to undercut whatever social security provides, and of course undercuts everyone else too.
The problem isn't social security. It's monetarism. Social security is the SYMPTOM. The problem is MONETARISM.
Following the various tenets of monetarism is what breaks everything. Funny enough, in a world where everything has or is breaking down, social security with everything rigged against it, is still the most solvent portion of our gov't. Go figure. So when the ponzi-esque social security is outdoing everything else, then it should be quite easy to identify that monetarism has failed, but all forms of monetarism still claim otherwise, and very few see the obvious.
So both are wrong, but Santelli was a little closer to the truth, but not in a way that really mattered that much. However at least he brought something to the table, Friedman was just spouting nonsense. It both is and isn't a ponzi pyramid. But of course the point of its and the world's financial troubles is the religious cult following of MONETARISM.
Glass-Steagall
I use to be a big fan of Friedman's insights regarding the Middle East, I think he should stay focused on that sand box instead of commenting on things going on this country because he is truly clueless.
He was on Meet the Press last week and he was a total idiot. I tried to go find his contact info anywhere on Google to contact him and tell him directly. No contact info on his website...only contact info to reach him was for speaking engagments http://www.thomaslfriedman.com/contact
PS Wikipedia definition " A Ponzi scheme is a fraudulent investment operation that pays returns to separate investors, not from any actual profit earned by the organization, but from their own money or money paid by subsequent investors. "
No...that doesn't sound like Social Security at all. I think Obama owes Madoff a pardon.
Look at that fucking idiot sitting on a trading floor calling SS a Ponzi Scheme. Let's forget the whole goddamn monetary system is Ricky!
SS was originally set up so that current workers pay for retirees. That money is NOT intended to buy, or be invested in, ANYTHING. You know, like Bernie Fucking Madoff's investment scam.
The excess funds, ie the trust fund, WERE supposed to be invested. But they forgot to pass a law to keep the politician's hands off of it! Now Republicans want to renege even though they spent that money as fast as it came in too!
We can give trillions to Wall Street crooks, but we can't live up to our promises when it comes to our elderly. Fuck 'em all.
It's articles like this that cast a shadow over the compression skills of Tyler Durden.
"Rick Santelli Tells Arch Globalization Advocate Friedman He Is An Idiot" No he did not.
"..not even the very non-flat Friemdan had an answer to Santelli's very simple question: is Social Security a ponzi scheme..."
Yes he did have an answer.
Friedman is a represenative of the prophetic strong delusion (people that do not love the Truth and are at war against the Truth)
The ''want'' of Prophetic Babylon (which is the self devouring contempt of all nations and Israel sealed unto the global market beast black hole) well defines Friedman.
What does a moron want? Morons want labor to accept the old lie of the new world order occult crowd of globalist creeps. Creeps, that have proven throughout history that they will offer labor contempt, in order to maintain the false claim of dominion through frear, slavery, debt and war. Creeps offer that same old pathetic lie ''you shall not surely die'' or fail if you eat shit and continue to eat the image of the historic Chairsatan Blankfeind Antichrist offer. Rick refused the offer, good for him.
Friedman, how's about divesting from the unbecoming image of the black hole and rising upon the offer of mercy, becoming free, man? LOL. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rGa70tVYVKo
im very surprised that ZH left out the word ANSWER.........he said his ANSWER was idiotic
with that said.......did you see Friedman, after answering Santelli, look around for assurance and backup......thats a sign of weakness
Wow, It appears my comment was deleted after correcting Tyler on two important points. Is this par for the coarse around here? No chastising the publisher?
All I said was
Rick Santelli did not call Friedman an idiot and Friedman DID answer the question asked of him.ur comment was not deleted.....dont be so paranoid
Fuck Friedman. He's a cocksucker of the ruling elite. Fuck their global exploitation.
The American social realist painter George Tooker painted the whole thing led by G7, titled "Coporate Decision" in 1982. Friedman, you didn't get it, did you?
http://safetylex.typepad.com/photos/safety_posters/edward_tooker_corporate_decision.jpg
Pretty funny (from Wiki)
The 1st monthly payment of social security was issued to Ida May Fuller. She put $24.75 into the system and collected a total of $22,888.92I wonder if the SSA cited the 92,380% "return" earned by Ida May as just one of the miracles of social security?
Looking over the comments here I see a lot of first (and probably last) time posters. Also there is no discussion, just a bunch of "drive-bys". Smells like astro-turf to me. Boiler room activity. Morons.
How can a transfer payment system work (which is what social security is) when the succeeding generation is smaller (especially when there is extremely high unemployment amongst the younger of the succeeding generation)? Can't these programs only be successful if the population pyramid is a pyramid and not a rectangle or inverse pyramid?
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=demographic+pyramid+2020+usa&um=1&hl=en&biw=1280&bih=909&tbm=isch&tbnid=pYVB3lFVemLObM:&imgrefurl=http://yanziyang.wordpress.com/2011/03/27/population-pyramid/&docid=kGOHcz4s7ffFyM&w=501&h=251&ei=BiFpTpdeipyBB6KawdUM&zoom=1&iact=hc&vpx=152&vpy=302&dur=1387&hovh=159&hovw=317&tx=157&ty=58&page=1&tbnh=91&tbnw=181&start=0&ndsp=30&ved=1t:429,r:6,s:0
Go Ricky Go.
The ONLY awesome reporter on CNBC.
It's shocking to me how either so many people in government and media either
1) don't understand what a Ponzi scheme is (and so are shocked when the charge is laid)
or
2) know exactly what it means, know that Socialist Security is by definition a Ponzi scheme, with accounting fraud, embezzlement, and with a phony US-govt CDS wrapped around it (and so are shocked! shocked! when the charge is laid)
Now that I think about it, I am betting on #2.
And all the elitists also know that the government is a fiction (doesn't exist), and is simply a bunch of predators engaged in organized predatory activity. Period.
Social Security is VERY Sustainable..
But we would have to collect Taxes from the Top 0.1%.. to be able to pay for Social Security..
and the AARP does not have a Lobby big enough to stop the elite rich of America, Sorry!
I sort of agree with you. Social Security should be protected at the expense of all other government programs, i.e. the wars.
You have to understand that the reason they're even having this conversation is because all the money is going to bailing out insolvent banks, wars, useless gov't programs etc. As in Greece, nothing can go to the people because everything is going to the banks and the wars.
Ron Paul said he would end the wars, etc. that will at least preserve some money for social security.
Basically the American people have to stop electing people to government who spend ridiculous amounts of our money. Unless they do so, the end of social security will be the least of our problems.
Grand theft is very sustainable when the theives have a monopoly on violence.
Ugh, he isn't an idiot: HE'S A FUCKING MORON!
The danger with the ponzi scheme language is that, there's a risk, that once everyone admits its a ponzi, social security will be the first thing to get cut (as opposed to needless government departments, wars, etc.)
In other words, I'd rather have this Ponzi "perpetuated" until everything else is cut and it's winded down. It would be dangerous to just end social security cold turkey because there are many people who rely on it.
One good strategy is to allow young people to opt in/out as Ron Paul suggested.
Fact is if we had a stable currency we wouldn't need social security as much because people could rely on their savings. Now, they can't rely on their savings nor can they rely on social security because I can just feel Obama/Romney/Perry/Geithner etc. getting their hands on it like it's an underage schoolgirl.
JWinfl never met brevity..he tries to justify what is plainly wrong so he goes on and on..SS is control..pols and gov like control.
nature kills off the sick and weak..yet most socialist/Demorat/Rino's think nature should trump all: ala Al gore and co, save the planet ..
and SS for grandma..LOL
charity and safty nets are the most un natural acts of all. deal with it.
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