This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Romney Enjoyed At Most 87% Of His $21mm Income In 2010

Tyler Durden's picture




 

"I paid taxes every single year" is how Mitt Romney retorts to Harry Reid's charge that he paid no taxes in some years. As Bloomberg reports, after review of his tax returns over the last decade, Romney always paid at least 13% of his income in taxes. Romney has released his 2010 return, which shows that he paid an effective tax rate of 13.9 percent on more than $21 million in income, most of it from capital gains and dividends.

"The fascination with taxes I’ve paid, I find to be very small-minded compared to the broad issues that we face," Romney told reporters adding that he is "waiting for Harry [Reid] to put up who it was that told him what he says they told him. I don’t believe it for a minute, by the way.”

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:36 | 2712098 101 years and c...
101 years and counting's picture

13.9%?  Geez, he needs to hire better tax evasion lawyers to cut that down to 9.2%!

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:43 | 2712118 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Exactly, or get the taxpayers to foot $40 million in vacation expenses like Obama and Moochella.

 

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:49 | 2712162 Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

Not to mention unlimited golf. I love to play golf. I've played 3 or 4 rounds since Obama has been in office. He's played about 100 or more rounds. I have to work every dam day. WTF?

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:52 | 2712178 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Who fucking cares about Mittens contributions to the IRS gang?

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:06 | 2712221 Michael
Michael's picture

For the lurkers;

Social Security Administration To Purchase 174 Thousand Rounds Of Hollow Point Bullets
First it was the Department of Homeland Security, then it was the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration, and now the Social Security Administration is set to purchase 174,000 rounds of hollow point bullets that will be delivered to 41 locations across the country.

A solicitation posted by the SSA on the FedBizOpps website asks for contractors to supply 174,000 rounds of “.357 Sig 125 grain bonded jacketed hollow point pistol ammunition.”

http://www.infowars.com/social-security-administration-to-purchase-174-thousand-rounds-of-hollow-point-bullets/

It'll be more likely those hollow point bullets will be used more on black people statistically speaking just as in New Orleans.

Having a black president next year will make it easier to use those bullets on blacks since no one will question Obama's use of those caps and their purchase by his administration.

I'm voting for Obama.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 10:48 | 2712498 notbot
notbot's picture

I have a good idea...let's raise the tax rate on div/cap gains to 40% (fair share!),

Then, if some "greedy speculator" puts money in a publicly traded company, he'll pay 36% fed statutory rate + 4% state & local on the company profits, then add another 40% when the earnings are paid out as dividends and cap gains.  64% total income tax rate on your investment (which you made with post-tax dollars).  

But that's not all...must pay for Bloomberg's soda police, so add another 10% on payout for state & local.  

70% income tax rate on investment profits.  Put that into your IRR calc when evaluating whether to start/expand a company or invest.  Make the US the MOST uncompetitive mkt in the world for investment and then sit and scratch our heads when we become Europe.  

But why stop there.  Then charge 8.75% state sales tax.  Yeah...that's it.  Actually, no, we need a VAT too.  Ridiculous.

 

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 21:27 | 2712917 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

You voting for Obama is pretty sick shit Michael. I get your point. I understand your logic. I still believe it's pretty sick shit. Why? Because awareness is slowly growing. The greater the number of INDIVIDUAL Americans who have the chance to comprehend what we are up against, the greater the chance of us being ultimately successful in killing it.

Good for you that you believe you're ready Michael. Stay ready. Tossing obama out onto his ass would be a smart and disruptive move. I get it that romney/ryan would continue playing the game, but I bet it would add a few million pissed off leftist to our ranks as well.

Am I saying just buy some time?

Yep. Because time can = greater numbers and with 800,000,000 rounds of 'homeland security' protection online....Greater numbers would be a good plan.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 21:43 | 2712943 Michael
Michael's picture

The sick shit voting strategy has not been used in the USA thus far. Perhaps now is the time. Imagine the message it will send to the GOP. It'll be much easier to impeach BO or procure his resignation next year.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 22:39 | 2713067 ISEEIT
ISEEIT's picture

Bullshit. If they get a second four years then it's a 'go' signal Michael. Locked in and sealed. rawmoney/ryan extend the timeline. My opinion is that extending the timeline is a moral tactical choice.

Not everyone, definitely not enough 'someones' have been afforded the opportunity to comprehend this shit. Dump obama's punk ass and what you will achieve is a greater degree of awareness. When rawmoney/ryan stick to script...Millions of 'conservative' useful idiots' will be pissed.

Just let it simmer Michael.

That's all I'm trying to say. Keep it on low. You being ready is great.

How about working to help even the fools who didn't become aware.....Yet?

Most of these people in my experience are decent and lovable enough.

When did you become 'politically aware' Michael?

Are you grateful for the opportunity?

Is grace something to be shared or something to be cashed in?

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 23:22 | 2713161 Michael
Michael's picture

Time is almost up. Complete and total worldwide economic collapse is on our door step.

The only thing we're doing right now is playing the political game. If you don't play you can't win, and the only way you can win is by changing the rules, which is what I am doing. Think Kobayashi Maru.

We're just paving a new path to possibly fix our country.

By the grace of my creator do I make it happen.

 

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:07 | 2712226 Cortez the Killer
Cortez the Killer's picture

Exactly.  Its his fucking money.

Let him (and everyone else) keep all of it if he wants.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:30 | 2712295 MJ
MJ's picture

That would be true if we was part of the group wanting people to keep their money, and not part of the group hoping to take other people's money by force because he believes he can spend it better.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 18:01 | 2712398 Baron Robber
Baron Robber's picture

Exactly, and Cortez can pay for the fucking wars Mittens wants to keep starting (never ending)

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 18:21 | 2712451 Cortez the Killer
Cortez the Killer's picture

My point was, its his money, not yours, or anyone else's.

If Mitt's a hyprocrite that doesnt mean the principle of taxation is OK.

keep your eye on the ball, Friendo.

 

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 19:02 | 2712562 Quantum Nucleonics
Quantum Nucleonics's picture

And add to that the fact that his charitable contributions are north of 15% annually.  Contrast that to "put them in chains" Biden who gave a whopping $319 dollars in 2007.  That's less than most people pay at Starbucks in a year.  Less than some in a month.  Since becoming VP, he's been shamed into increasing his charitable giving to the mighty sum of 1%-ish of AGI.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 19:17 | 2712600 Chrome Child
Chrome Child's picture

If a majority of his money is made via investments and financier trickery, then he has recieved stimulus and QE money via robber barons; which is your money. And mine. And other folks on ZH. My main beef with Mitt is that he made his bones closing buildings and shipping out jobs.

And I agree with the 'Don't Hate the Playa, Hate the Game' mantra. He's within the legal boundaries of what he's doing - I don't hate him for it, just all the colluding, corrupt and punk ass MFers that write the laws to fuck the rest of us.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 19:26 | 2712616 notbot
notbot's picture

"Shipping out jobs".  Seriously?  Do you even understand capitalism?  

Let me guess...you think that if we keep a bunch of unproductive union jobs at above-mkt rates, it will save the middle class and grow the economy.  

You been reading Krugman lately?

We need fewer restrictions to takeovers...one of the biggest causes of ridiculous exec pay and golden parachutes is the poison pill.  Get rid of that.

Increases in productivity = real economic profits.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 20:31 | 2712790 New_Meat
New_Meat's picture

"Let me guess...you think that if we keep a bunch of unproductive union jobs at above-mkt rates, it will save the middle class and grow the economy."

... bbb..bbbb...bbbut, the unions DO keep a bunch of unproductive jobs in their "job banks".  Y'know, just in case.  And, in the "job banks" they earn compound interest, don't cha' know.  Happened in Deetroit, in NYC with the Teachaz unionz, all about.

Only Krugman (Nobel Larriat) I've been reading is his proposal to build the Death Star, just in case.  Consider: Hazlett dispelled the economic benefit of breaking things when he explained the "broken window theory."  (and I'm sure he wasn't the first, but he did popularize the nonsense).  So along comes ol' Krug-thang (I'm sure he's turned in his man-card) and he wants to do the "broken planet hyopthesis"

Whew,

- Ned

http://www.abebooks.com/servlet/SearchResults?sts=t&tn=economics+in+one+...

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 22:09 | 2713011 notbot
notbot's picture

Your link should be required reading to vote.  But then again, we don't even need ID, so what am I saying...

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 00:51 | 2713286 Chrome Child
Chrome Child's picture

If by capitalism, you mean 'driving-companies-to-the-ground-by-taking-on-more-debt-to-give-investors-dividends-earlier', then maybe I'm thinking something different.

So by your logic, its ok to fuck the American Union workers, but not the underpaid, no-benefit, hazard work environment American workers, eh? I get it now. I didn't know that Bain just raided - I'm sorry - bought only Union shops. That's interesting. And you brought up unions, not me. Note: I'm not a union worker.

Prove that jobs weren't shipped - I mean - globalized. And if they weren't globalized, they were vaporized. Bain still made cash though. Get that money, playa! Ampad? GS? Dade Behring? DDi? Worked out well for Bain on those aquirements.

Now, you can say that the sole purpose of an investment firm is to make money, not to protect the jobs of employees who do not contribute to the bottom line - sure. But do you run for POTUS with that history?

Good luck with that. Even a layman can figure that out.

 

 

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 07:38 | 2713585 notbot
notbot's picture

Riiiight. That's Bains business model. Buy companies at a premium over market value and then run them into the ground. it's so simple.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 02:07 | 2713328 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"Increases in productivity = real economic profits"

Hilarious. It's so simple! Just increase productivity (by getting rid of gov & unions) and you will have "real economic profits"

1. get rid of unions & gov 2. _____________ 3. real economic growth!

It's also equally simple to differentiate between "real economic profits" (Bain Capital) and "fake economic profits" (whatever unions do).

If only geniuses on zh like notbot were running the show, everything would be fixed because the solutions are so simple.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 07:48 | 2713578 notbot
notbot's picture

Nope, don't get rid of gov. Nice straw man tho. And yes, unions are legalized monopolies. Collusion of labor. If employers colluded like labor colludes, they'd go to jail.

Real economic profits come from voluntary exchange. Not crony capitalism or favored legal status or gov granted monopolies on labor.

Read this: http://www.amazon.com/The-Rise-Decline-Nations-Stagflation/dp/0300030797

I have, it's pretty clear that special interests clog the arteries of capitalism. We need geniuses like Mancur Olsen to be considered

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 13:55 | 2714746 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

 

"Nope, don't get rid of gov. Nice straw man tho. And yes, unions are legalized monopolies. Collusion of labor. If employers colluded like labor colludes, they'd go to jail."

 

Like how American financial institutions never collude, because if they did they'd all be in jail.  

One of Olsen's primary points is institutions "special interests" working as monopolies negatively impact economic development. 

Within a developed "capitalist democracy" how does one combat this, that's the actual question here, the thesis is extremely basic.  

"Real economic profits come from voluntary exchange. Not crony capitalism or favoured legal status or gov granted monopolies on labor."

You use the term "real economic profits" and don't define it. Define it.

China has done very well over the past 40 yrs with crony capitalism, favoured legal status and gov granted monopolies on labour. Gee wiz, could things be more complicated than you suggest??

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 16:31 | 2715251 notbot
notbot's picture

So you're against collusion when it comes to banks, but for it when it comes to labor?  Why the incosistency?  There should be jail time over this Libor scandal.  And if there isn't, that doesn't make it right.  I am against collusion.  Period. 

Economic profit is a basic concept, would have thought most on ZH understood it, so it didn't need explaining.  Economic profits are when the pie gets bigger.  It's when, in aggregate, GDP/capita grows due to productivity increases.    

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Profit_(economics)#Economic_profit

That is what pulled the masses out of poverty.  "Hans Roslings 200 countries/200 yrs in 4 mins":

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jbkSRLYSojo

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 17:41 | 2715477 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"So you're against collusion when it comes to banks, but for it when it comes to labor?  Why the incosistency?  There should be jail time over this Libor scandal.  And if there isn't, that doesn't make it right.  I am against collusion.  Period."

I didn't say I was against banking collusion or for labour collusion.  

It's not some great insight at this point to suggest concrentration of capital whether political or otherwise is a bad thing. 

"Economic profit is a basic concept, would have thought most on ZH understood it, so it didn't need explaining.  Economic profits are when the pie gets bigger.  It's when, in aggregate, GDP/capita grows due to productivity increases."

You specifically said "real economic profit" which suggests a dichotomy of real / fake.

There are a lot of issues with GDP, and since you don't like Krugman you must already understand some of the fundamental problems with GDP as he often uses them as examples of how to get the economy back on track (i.e. preparation for war). Or other Keynes followers saying Fukashima was a good thing for Japan because it would get their GDP back on track.  

 "That is what pulled the masses out of poverty.  "Hans Roslings 200 countries/200 yrs in 4 mins"

He specifically highlights technological innovation as a catalyst here, not sure what you're trying to get at. 

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 16:37 | 2715301 notbot
notbot's picture

USSR did well for a long time too, or so it seemed.  But it can't last.  Eventually the house of cards comes tumbling down in a command economy...ever heard Chanos' thesis on China?  Their day will come.

I'm not an anarchist.   I'm not a OWS.  I want a sustainable society, a sustainable govt.  For me, and my two boys, and their kids.  Pols that have put our gov on an unsustainable path are immoral, borderline criminal. 

It won't come crumbling down right away.  Crony capitalism is great if you are on the inside and can last a very lonog time.  Communism is great if you are at the top.  

But the only sustainable economy is one where people have voluntary exchange safeguarded by a SUSTAINABLE govt.  Also known as capitalism.  Or liberty.  Or common sense.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 18:00 | 2715527 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"USSR did well for a long time too, or so it seemed.  But it can't last.  Eventually the house of cards comes tumbling down in a command economy...ever heard Chanos' thesis on China?  Their day will come."

Remind me which fascist country is the one where American companies get the majority of their manufacturing done again? 

"But the only sustainable economy is one where people have voluntary exchange safeguarded by a SUSTAINABLE govt.  Also known as capitalism."

Actually, that's not capitalism. It's funny seeing people on zh routinely describe socialism as if they're describing capitalism without recognizing the irony.

Wiki actually contradicts your statement in it's basic definition of capitalism right at the top. 

"Competitive marketscapital accumulationvoluntary exchange, and personal finance are, however, not capitalism, and are often a part in non-capitalist systems such as market socialism and worker cooperatives."

Don't let your head explode but the sad truth is you are a closet socialist. 

This is capitalism:

"Capitalism is an economic system that is based on private ownership of the means of production and the creation of goods or services for profit."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism


Fri, 08/17/2012 - 20:41 | 2715800 notbot
notbot's picture

You have to have protection of property rights and a rule of law to have private ownership of the means of production. Voluntary exchange and unmanipulated price signals are a critical component for capitalism to function properly, whether that makes them technically part of "capitalism" or whether they are also part of other forms of economic systems, is splitting hairs.

And without voluntary exchange, price signals dont carry the same information content. You familiar with the Austrian business cycle? I Don't really care what some ivory tower academic wrote on Wiki in his free time, splitting hairs on definitions.

Rosling video just showed how increases in productivity (what you called technology) create economic profits and grow the pie (what I meant by "real" economic profits was that ecomic profits are the only real profits that matter, what we casually call profits are partially just shifting the pie around, and partially economic profits). Sorry if that threw you...don't really proof my ZH posts for grammar.

If fascist china wants to subsidize production and US consumption with a currency peg, what does that have to do with our discussion? We don't have global free trade right now. What's your point?

Mine is that, if we did have it and had had it, we'd be a lot better off collectively. China has MASSIVE malinvestment going on right now and losses building in their banking system.

You seem to be intelligent enough to have the knowledgeable conversation, and for that I give you lots of credit....underestimated you at first. Sorry about that. I think we are just ideologically far apart. Sorry, I was in a pretty sour mood last night when posting.

Would you consider yourself a Keynesian? What is your background?

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 21:01 | 2715872 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"Voluntary exchange and unmanipulated price signals are a critical component of capitalism."

 

Nonmanipulated according to who, regulated by who? 

Free market capitalism itself has no answer for curbing excessively manipulated prices (in order to increase profit), other than the belief that price discovery will somehow prevent manipulation. Makes about as much sense as believing in scientology. 

"Rosling video just showed how increases in productivity (what you called technology) create economic profits and grow the pie (what I meant by "real" economic profits was that ecomic profits are the only real profits that matter, what we casually call profits are partially just shifting the pie around, and partially economic profits)"

His starting point was the industrial revolution - a technological development. Critically if you watch the development of different countries you see the effects specifically of technological change, particularly when he brings up China and cites the difference between Shanghai (advanced tech centre) vs. Guizhou (farming). 

"If china wants to subsidize production and US consumption with a currency peg, what does that have to do with our discussion? We don't have global free trade right now. What's your point?"

 

Key to capitalism is keeping input costs as low as possible, any intelligent capitalist will go to where input costs are cheapest. There's no inherent correlation between capitalism and democracy. 

"Mine is that, if we did have it and had had it, we'd be a lot better off collectively."

There's no incentive for the rich and powerful to welcome free trade. 

"Would you consider yourself a Keynesian? What is your background?"

NoAnarcho-syndicalist -

"In contrast to other bodies of thought (Marxism–Leninism being a prime example), anarcho-syndicalists deny that there can be any kind of workers' state, or a state which acts in the interests of workers, as opposed to those of the powerful. Reflecting the anarchist philosophy from which it draws its primary inspiration, anarcho-syndicalism holds to the idea that power corrupts.

Adherents view it as a potential force for revolutionary social change, replacing capitalism and the state with a new society, democratically self-managed by workers. Anarcho-syndicalists seek to abolish the wage system, regarding it as wage slavery, and state or private ownership of the means of production, which they believe lead to class divisions. Anarcho-syndicalist theory generally focuses on the labour movement."

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anarcho-syndicalism

 

 

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 20:15 | 2715820 notbot
notbot's picture

Jeff Miron on 3 common myths of capitalism

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGPa5Ob-5Ps

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 21:04 | 2715880 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

Typical nonsensical explanation of capitalism from Harvard business school. Gov welfare and free market capitalism are not compatible. 

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 23:09 | 2716046 notbot
notbot's picture

I don't think he's typical at all.  I went to one of those schools, Keynesian econ runs deep through the curriculum.  He's likely considered an apostate by most of the econ faculty.  It's refreshing to have a guy like Miron carrying the torch for Austrian econ.

"Anarco Syndicalism".  So you ARE for the collusion of labor. That sounds like some crazy stuff to me, but to each their own.  No wonder ZH readers drive you nuts...good place for anarchists to troll tho.  OWS.  

I don't suppose it would sway you that the CEO of Whole Foods was a former hippy, until he tried to start and run a business.  Then he figured out how the world really works.  Have a read some time, try to keep your food down:

http://studentsforliberty.org/news/the-morality-of-capitalism-introduction-free-to-download/

Sat, 08/18/2012 - 02:12 | 2716158 James_Cole
James_Cole's picture

"I don't think he's typical at all.  I went to one of those schools, Keynesian econ runs deep through the curriculum.  He's likely considered an apostate by most of the econ faculty.  It's refreshing to have a guy like Miron carrying the torch for Austrian econ."

Yet he cites the importance of gov social welfare programs. I'm no fan of Ron Paul but at least he's intellectually consistent in saying the gov should stay out of welfare. 

"Anarco Syndicalism".  So you ARE for the collusion of labor. That sounds like some crazy stuff to me, but to each their own.  No wonder ZH readers drive you nuts...good place for anarchists to troll tho.  OWS."

Certainly a different form of labour collusion. In an anarcho snyndiclist system there would be no advantage to a labour group surviving simply for it's own existence while producing a useless product - that's a speciality of state capitalism. 

The internet itself to a very large extent is an anarcho syndiclist system and works quite well. 

I'm not saying follow it yourself, if you find it crazy, OK stick to what makes sense for you. 

ZH reader's drive me nuts when they argue about things they clearly don't have any understanding of. 

"I don't suppose it would sway you that the CEO of Whole Foods was a former hippy, until he tried to start and run a business.  Then he figured out how the world really works.  Have a read some time, try to keep your food down"

I've talked with lots of CEO's of large market cap companies, they can explain their views well and also no doubt most of the time believe in what they are doing. I don't have issues with whole foods, I shop there. I don't have issues with wealth, I was a on a private plane with a CEO and the big debate was which jet to buy, I didn't shed a tear thinking about the poor.  

My issue is that the way the world "really works" is idiotic, inefficient and for the majority increasingly oppressive / cruel. And it is becoming clear that the system is collapsing into itself. 

I like the idea of individuals being responsible for what they do and society being a representation of individual members choices, not the choices of a select few who even with the best intentions will likely screw things up.  

For fun:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAaWvVFERVA

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 20:39 | 2712810 EINSILVERGUY
EINSILVERGUY's picture

prove it

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 19:09 | 2712578 Chrome Child
Chrome Child's picture

Not if you're willing to use roads, running water, bridges, energy, and sending men to war.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 19:26 | 2712620 BigInJapan
BigInJapan's picture

Right on.

7 commies downvoted you for that.

This place is becoming overrun with 99%ers, OWSers, Socialists, Progressives (WTF that even means), and full-on Communists.

Their bullshit all smells the same. It smells like failure.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 00:56 | 2713290 Chrome Child
Chrome Child's picture

Just to play Devil's Advocate - recent polls among younger generations have Communism having a higher approval rating Congress right now. That's no shit. Look it up.

The idea of the 'scary Commies' will die as the boomers do.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 19:36 | 2712643 bankruptcylawyer
bankruptcylawyer's picture

you didn't make those federal reserve notes, the treasury printed them. 

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 18:13 | 2712424 radicall
radicall's picture

I do. How can you get 100 million in an IRA that has a 30k/yr limit??? Someone who cheats on his taxes should definitely not be the Prez. It is unpatriotic at the very least.

 

If you support a war, you better be willing to put up your share of taxes to pay for it.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 19:09 | 2712579 Quantum Nucleonics
Quantum Nucleonics's picture

He put shares of private equity funds into the IRA.  Nothing illegal about it.

 

Can we extend your logic to, "If you support welfare, you better be willing to put up your share of taxes to pay for it."?  Half the people in America pay no taxes, a sizeable share of them get a check from the government.

 

You could surrender in Afghanistan, zero out the entire defense budget.  Zero it out!  That wouldn't even come close to balancing the budget.  You'd still need to find $700 billion more in cuts.  There may be a moral component to withdrawing from Afghanistan, there might even be a strategic reason to do so, but it's a minor fiscal issue.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 02:35 | 2713356 IrritableBowels
IrritableBowels's picture

Are yOu advocating taxing unemployment payments?!?

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 20:59 | 2712857 Caggge
Caggge's picture

If you support a war, you better be willing to put up your share of taxes to pay for it.

 

If you support a war, you better be willing to put up your share of the taxes and your life for it. If it's an important enough cause to send someone else to war then it's an important enough cause to go yourself.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 00:13 | 2713234 Deepskyy
Deepskyy's picture

Exactly.  The guy got to keep more of his money rather than giving it to the idiot fedgov to waste.  Good on him!

 

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 18:36 | 2712494 Calculated_Risk
Calculated_Risk's picture

Yea, and does she pay taxes on these "gift" vacations? Fuck no! Would we have to? Fuck yes!

Can I 1099 her, or claim her and the other leeches on my taxes?  Yea right!

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 00:34 | 2713263 Bear
Bear's picture

More like 200,000,000 ... she's no piker pussy

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:45 | 2712134 redpill
redpill's picture

I'm no Romney fan, but don't hate the player.  This is the legacy of the income tax system.  As long as Congress insists on having all these ways they can get their fingers into our lives, people with money are going to figure out the loopholes in order to pay as little as possible.  And he should, the beast needs to be starved.

You want to eliminate 90% of this legal tax evasion?  Repeal the 16th amendment, eliminate corporate tax, and instead use a consumption tax to fund the government.  No more games, no more ability for Congress to invent their little 'tax incentives' bullshit meddling.  Everyone who buys new goods and services pays.  If you're poor, buy second-hand shit and you don't pay any tax at all.  Done.

 

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:45 | 2712146 economics9698
economics9698's picture

By a continuing process of inflation, government can confiscate, secretly and unobserved, an important part of the wealth of their citizens.
John Maynard Keynes

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:48 | 2712158 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture

 

 

Hopefully his secretary didn't pay more.

 

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:03 | 2712215 XenoFrog
XenoFrog's picture

I've always wondered why, if Buffet is so concerned about his secretary, he doesn't just pay her more. Oh yeah, because it's not about him, it's about forcing everyone else to do what he wants.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:07 | 2712228 Money By Trading
Money By Trading's picture

Or he could simply opt to take his compensation as a large SALARY instead of in dividends and stock.

He freely *chooses* not to be compensated by a salary because the tax code destroys people who get by on EARNED income.

Only an idiot would do otherwise if he had the choice.

Buffett has really become obnoxious in recent years.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 00:32 | 2713262 Bear
Bear's picture

Senile

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:10 | 2712238 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Actually, to lower her tax rate, he should have paid her less. Pay her $50 per week, for instance; 1 American gold eagle.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:27 | 2712289 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

That's been tried and failed.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:51 | 2712166 Let them eat iPads
Let them eat iPads's picture

He's not just a player, he's part of the clique that make the rules to benefit themselves.

 

How about just making the first $50,000 tax free and everyone pays 10% on everything over that?

 

No deductions. Ever.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 18:39 | 2712496 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

I'll sign up for that if property taxes are made illegal.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 19:27 | 2712624 Quantum Nucleonics
Quantum Nucleonics's picture

Article 1, Section 2 of the US Constitution precludes, for all practical purposes, property taxes.  You'd have to eliminate property taxes, state by state.  Good luck with that.

Well, that was true before Justice Robert's Obamacare ruling.  It appears to lift all constraints on Congress's taxing powers.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 11:21 | 2714193 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

I didn't say it would be easy, I just state that it needs to be done. It still doesn't address the issues around eminent domain and police escheat but hey, it's a start.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 18:41 | 2712502 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

sounds good to me, but there goes about  50% of the US income tax base.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:51 | 2712173 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

I agree with your points and support a sales tax.  However, people will find a way to avoid the taxes - take cigarette taxes and the black market in non-stamped cancer sticks.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 18:04 | 2712388 redpill
redpill's picture

Any guesses on what percentage of total cigarette sales are illegal black market cigarettes?  I'm willing to bet it's a lot less than the percentage of Romney's income he manages to avoid paying taxes on thanks to income tax loopholes.  Most people are not interested in violating the law, certainly not someone like Mitt Romney.  I'm sure every thing he did was legal, and if he was a smoker he'd buy the legal ones, too.  Point being, it's not the illegal tax avoidance that is the defining issue, it's the LEGAL tax avoidance that reeks of inequity and inefficiency.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 21:15 | 2712884 Joe Davola
Joe Davola's picture

I agree the difference is following the law and going extrajudicial.  It's very telling that our current state of political discourse involves demonizing someone for following the letter of the law.

 

I pay an order of magnitude (or more) less in taxes than he does, but a higher percentage.  I don't go out of my way running down every possible deduction and every possible method for saving on taxes.  I figure the risk incurred in holding profits for longer periods to gain a tax advantage is much higher than what the resulting taxes are (let alone the additional risk of audit).  If I had a couple more orders of magnitude as a net worth, maybe the calculations would look different. - or maybe not since the amount saved would be a smaller percentage of the overall net worth.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:23 | 2712270 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

redpill, its douchebags like him that lobbied to create the loopholes and expliot others. Stop worshiping the rich. How you get rich is more important than being rich. You sound like youve been popping a bunch of blue pills.  

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:55 | 2712380 redpill
redpill's picture

I'm not worshiping anyone, nice strawman though.  In case you missed it I want to toss out the income tax for precisely this reason.  I don't know if Romney personally lobbied for tax loopholes or not, but if you're going to make the claim you might as well back it up.  "The rich" is a stupid term, they are not a group.  Some are douchebags, some are not.  Romney is probably one of the douchebags since he's a politician also, but that's beside the point.  If we have a fucked up income tax system that allows some people to avoid taxation, that's a problem with the system, not the people savvy enough to exploit it.  This isn't charity, jack, it's the government holding a gun to our heads and making us pay up.  I don't care if you are rich or poor, you are under no obligation to hand over a penny more than you are forced to.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 18:07 | 2712411 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

people who make as much $ as him are allowed to by organized crime. He does there bidding. Everyone who is super rich is on the take by the people in power. you are allowed to use the tax loopholes once youve sold your soul. becoming rich by being and entrepenur will eventualy cause you to be paid a visit from the "suits" and dicuss further business arrangements. money is an illusion. power over other people is all that truly exists.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 18:20 | 2712449 nmewn
nmewn's picture

I think I read somewhere that he paid roughly the same amount to government as he paid to his church...(maybe the same guy Harry Reid was talking to...lol)...so, the title of the article is factually wrong.

I don't know of anyone who "enjoys" tithing...its a volunatry obligation.

So, lets round it off...he paid 25% before he got to "enjoy" what he earned.

And where did this idea come from that if everyone paid more in taxes the government would spend it more wisely...thats something that will never happen.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 18:36 | 2712491 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

no its just all of the sleazy privelages that they get. the opprotunity to move $ around illegaly gets easier the more they rub elbows with the elite.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 21:09 | 2712875 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Sorry for the late reply, I live in the sticks...my power went out...lol.

Your tone implies the "rich" got their money illegally and thus lose the right to move it wherever they want, if I get the gist of it.

When Corzine is indicted or Solyndra's CEO or past CEO's of Fannie & Freddie we can talk at length about whats right & wrong...not just legalities.

When the people "hire" leaders to make laws (stupid or sane laws, doesn't matter) what they want from them is to make things legal in every respect, to allow order and process in society...it may not be correct or rational...but it will be instantly legal.

Hitler had judges and laws too...it was all very legal under that law...but of course, we all agree it wasn't fair or correct.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 23:07 | 2713138 DR
DR's picture

Most PE firms are not corporations but limited partnerships  where all profits flow directly to the individual limited partners. With a good tax advisor most of your flow though can be tax at 15%.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:58 | 2712198 time2blowitup
time2blowitup's picture

This should be posted on CNN dot com. Who gives a shit how much this guy paid in taxes. Stick to attacking him on his record. 

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:14 | 2712247 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

I'd rather know who paid for Obama to go Ivy League, and whether or not he received help - financial or otherwise - as a foreign student. I'd also like to know where he got his grass, but that guy's probably retired by now.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 18:29 | 2712473 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"I'd rather know who paid for Obama to go Ivy League, and whether or not he received help - financial or otherwise - as a foreign student."

You got that right.

I still say, if I were advising Romney, I would say fine...O'Barry...you give the people your Occidental records and I'll give my 2009 returns...for Columbia University, they get to see my 2008 tax returns. For Harvard they get to see my 2007 tax records.

Its only "fair" right?...seeing as how you (O'Barry) slipped through the dim vetting process last time ;-)

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:21 | 2712267 AGuy
AGuy's picture

His real tax rate is much higher. Few people realize that before a penny of revenue can be paid to investors it is subject to the 35% Federal corporate tax rate. So if the company earns $100, it must first pay $35 to the US treasury. Then the remaining is subject to state corp taxes. Then what ever remains can be paid out as capital gains, and there is a capital gains tax. So if his person fed taxes is 13.9% for every $100 in corp earnings he gets only $56. His real tax rate is 44%

Getting paid a salary is usually a better deal. Since there is no corporate tax on salaries. For instance lets say he took his income has a salary. He would probably be in the 36% tax bracket. His first $107K of income would be subject to the full payroll tax, but any additional income is only subject to the 2.9% medicare tax. so his taxes would be only 38.9% which is lower than the real capital gains rate of 44%.

BTW: I am not a fan of Romney, but just want to point out this misunderstood issue.

 

 

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:30 | 2712299 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

No.

Man buys stock jan 2011, 100,000 shares at $50. Stock goes to $150. Man sells shares 12 months later. Man makes $10,000,000 in profit. Pays 15% to taxes, keeps $8,500,000.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 22:27 | 2713057 notbot
notbot's picture

You new to investing?

See, the thing is, those funny pieces of paper are actually fractional ownership in earnings (at least over the medium term...in nanoseconds I have no idea what they are).  

And they move in price according to how much money, after tax, a company earns, and will continue to earn.  After tax...that's the key.

So yeah, investors pay the corp tax rate plus their personal tax rate.  Otherwise the stock would have gone to $250 instead of $150.

That's why so many companies are now MLP's and IPOs are going the way of the dodo until companies are absolutely forced to go public b/c of too many owners (e.g. Faceplant).

 

 

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 23:08 | 2713139 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

In that simple example, an investor buying a publically traded stock, holding it for more than 12 months pays the 15% cap gains rate even if they're in the 35% bracket.

Should the stock be sold earlier than 1 year 35% would be owed.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 18:24 | 2712460 chet
chet's picture

FWIW, the effective corporate tax rate is closer to 12%.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 18:45 | 2712513 Calculated_Risk
Calculated_Risk's picture

You forgot all the write offs/loop holes before the 35% tax rate is applied. 

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 19:06 | 2712575 Chrome Child
Chrome Child's picture

It might be subject to 35%, but there is no way in hell that rate is paid. Ever.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 20:34 | 2712788 madcuban
madcuban's picture

It seems to me, people should vote for obama as president and write in romney as VP.  Then and only then can we truly accelerate what we all know is inevitable.  Time to start a new campaign for this.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 20:37 | 2712803 EINSILVERGUY
EINSILVERGUY's picture

 

Romney is not evading taxes.  That is illegal. He is avoiding taxes which is perfectly legal as long as you have a good tax accountant who can take advantage of the tax law.

Blame Congress for writing in all of these loopholes which if you listen to Ryan, they are campaigning on reforming.

the system is corrupt but the man paid millions to charity which is a hell of a lot more than Joe Biden.

 

 

 

 

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 22:38 | 2713077 Whatta
Whatta's picture

why do we give a shit what Romney pays. I try to pay $0 in taxes myself...it is the patriotic thing to do.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:37 | 2712103 Aziz
Aziz's picture

Obama-Romney 2012.

War, debt, indefinite detention, Jon Corzine, drone strikes and pink slime.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:41 | 2712124 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Hey, I like my pink slime.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:50 | 2712163 CVfriendship
CVfriendship's picture

Lincoln's Strategy. Team of Rivals....great book. BUT MUCH different situation. But civil war....well it probably hasn't been as possible since that time, so maybe closer than you think, which is scary.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:39 | 2712113 The Wizard of Oz
The Wizard of Oz's picture

AUDIT HARRY REID AND MITT ROMNEY!!!

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:51 | 2712167 knotjammin2
knotjammin2's picture

Audit Michael Bloomberg too.  Actually, I'm getting tired of this game that the dems and now ZH are playing.  Nobody give a shit about Romney's or anyone elses taxes unless there is tax evasion involved.  Don't think that Obama and his cronies havent already looked at Romney's returns for the last 20 years and they found nothing but the fact that just like any business person Romney paid all he had too and no more.  Who in the hell would want a CEO that paid more than he had too. This stupid class warfare is BS and frankly I thought (apparently I was incorrect) that ZH was above this kind of story.  Guess not, just another digital rag!!

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:57 | 2712194 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Look at the underlined portion. Everyone is missing the story, IMHO.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:15 | 2712251 chet
chet's picture

I think it is relevant to the extent that I dislike the financial industry and the private equity industry.  I don't think he should pay any more than he has to legally, but that's a separate issue from whether I want to vote for the guy.

At this point in history, five years after the financial meltdown, with no one faciing any penalty for any misconduct, do I want to vote for a silver-spoon-raised corporate raider and outsourcer worth a quarter of a billion dollars?  We're on ZH every day complaining about exactly this type of person and a system which exalts them and gives them a free pass.  He isn't a criminal, but you want one of these guys to be President?

In short, yes I do care, because I'm not going to vote for a plutocrat at a time when plutocrats are busy cementing total control and freedom from the law.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:39 | 2712116 Cugel
Cugel's picture

Good for him. If we each have a "fair share" like Obama is always talking about, surely it is less than $3mm per person.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:17 | 2712256 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

I sent a note asking Barry to spread some of his wealth my way. He hasn't replied, but there's this dark tinted-window SUV circling the block now. I really thought Barry was better than that; guess I was wrong.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:30 | 2712298 Papasmurf
Papasmurf's picture

That SUV was Barry dropping by some cash.  Gov't cutbacks have limited helicopter use.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:40 | 2712119 LeisureSmith
LeisureSmith's picture

Tell me who said i did what i didn't do.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:41 | 2712121 FOC 1183
FOC 1183's picture

per prior release

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:44 | 2712136 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

Why do those graphs make it look like Romney is giving us a big red middle finger?

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:49 | 2712152 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

why does everyone give him a hard time about the lack of income taxes he pays

the income tax is illegal, never ratified by enough states, put into "law" anyway, along with the legislation creating the federal (private) reserve (actually, there are no reserves)

the focus should be on the out of control spending government that has to demand these voluntary taxes to fund its own inefficiency, or sick the IRS mafia on you

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:51 | 2712165 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

I do not know why.  I think its a waste of time and energy.  Romney earned his money and should do whatever he can to keep as much as he can within the law.  The graphs just look like middle fingers.  I do not think Romney is doing anything unethical or illegal. In fact, trying to keep what you earn out of the greedy hands of government is moral and ethical.  Feeding the beast is unethical.  IMHO.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:09 | 2712222 Bear
Bear's picture

 

How many here would like to earn 200,000,000 a year? If you did, would you not follow the law and 'maximize' your return ... or would you want to give your money to the government to spend it on the many worthwhile projects that they have going?

I hate bankers that leach off society's hard earned wealth, but I don't blame them for trying to make as much as they can ... I blame the government for being willing to be compromised by accepting cash to elected to another term (I call it bribery).  Why is US tax law housed in 74,000 pages? It is not to make sure everyone pays their fair share, but just the opposite to protect those who pay their 'fair share' to politicians.

Our outrage shouldn't be directed at a person who made a lot of money, it should directed at the insanity of government.

Ethanol, costing more energy to produce than it delivers, while promoting starvation around the world ... that is something that we should be outraged at ... a thousand other government insanities.

Elect Romney / Ryan as our best chance to trim government ... Romney did it in Salt Lake City and Ryan tried to do it with his budget. I think that is better than those absolutely committed to do the opposite. 

 

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:11 | 2712236 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

80% of govt spending is entitlements and defense.

and they are not cutting any of it for 10 years at least (see Ryan's plan)

there will be a full-fledged currency crisis by the time they get around to it

only sane choice is Ron Paul. Or Gary Johnson.

Fuck it, who am I kidding? 'Merica wont elect a sane president.

Buy Gold. LOTS OF FUCKING GOLD

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:36 | 2712316 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

 

vote for Romney?!

do the right thing, give yourself a labodomy.  Its too late for you.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:46 | 2712350 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

A labodomy? I don't care what he did with his Irish Setter, taking away his Retreiver now isn't going to change a thing.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 18:26 | 2712470 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

no hes set in his ways now for sure. but what about those umteen douchy sons of his. Theyre all in their 30's and their voises still break when they talk. "there nothing wrong with my dad he still sing to me to get me to fall asleep when theres a  lightnin storm outside."

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 00:26 | 2713257 Bear
Bear's picture

If not Romney ... then who?

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:30 | 2712297 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

if you dont think what he did to make his money at bain was unethecal you need to wake the fuck up!

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:52 | 2712176 spastic_colon
spastic_colon's picture

plus as mentioned, it was mostly capital gains etc. so what is the big deal?

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 18:11 | 2712418 Carl LaFong
Carl LaFong's picture

l'm really tired of reading these "income tax is illegal" bullshit and fallacious arguments. Read the corp tax act of 1909.  Income is defined as "gain or profit severed from capital."  When one is a priveledged entity existing by priveledge or license, like a corp, one can be taxed on income (gain), legally.  When one is a human being exchanging one's labor (that one owns by right) for money or pigs or a car or food, then there is no taxable event because there is no "gain."  That's why labor is not taxable.  Ever notice is you have a company come and paint your house that the labor is not taxed, only the materials.  See "Pollack vs Farmers' Loan and Trust Co." SCOTUS decision never overturned: http://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/historics/USSC_CR_0157_0429_ZS.htm...

GET A GRIP

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 19:21 | 2712604 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Why Comay?????

Because all your legal theory aside about the legitimacy of taxation we all have to pay, when we all have to pay legal or not he has to do what expected of all the rest of us. It might be one's patriotic duty to take advantage of any deductions and breaks congress and the IRS has inserted into the tax code, but you should be mindful when you are avoiding taxes that if you should one day seek public office the electorate has a right to decide whether you were ethical or not in doing so. He might take the position that his tax filings are a private matter and not your business, but it is the voter who decides what is and is not the voter's business.

............................

P.S.  Neither Paul or that other guy are on the November ballot so when you say they are the only hope you just wasted a bit more of our time, something far more valuable to me than your useless theory of what can save us or what is legal or not legal about the tax code.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 01:12 | 2713305 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Who is the total moron that gave the red arrow?  Which statement in my post could you have disagreed with?  There was no opinion only provable facts.  You want to red arrow provable fact then you are a fucking retard.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:55 | 2712185 monad
monad's picture

Nah, they are just reusing the bogus penis size by race chart from last week.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:22 | 2712272 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Can you please resubmit these graphs with Obama added in? Just curious. And are the figures based on total income or taxable income or what?

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:42 | 2712336 Carl LaFong
Carl LaFong's picture

What a moronic disingenuous comparison.  Let me preface this by stating I won't be voting for Obummer or the Rominator.  Romney is following the IR Code. If one owns a home bought with AFTER-TAX dollars and sells it for a cap gain (if that's even possible now), that person will pay the cap gains tax rate.  If one owns Nestles stock and receives a dividend on that ALREADY TAXED income, one pays a dividend tax rate.  Both of these rates are lower than the original rate paid on the original income that bought the house and the stock. So what if Romney is rich. Kerry was rich, Kennedy(s) was (are) rich, Pelosi is rich, etc....

What is Warren Buffet's effective tax rate? What is Obama's effective tax rate? Doesn't Obama pay the same tax that Romney does on cap gains and dividends? This is the dumbest chart and argument I've heard in a long time and Romney's a idiot not to have already put this specious argument to rest. Hell, at least he worked for it, had a business, made and lost money on the way up.  Obama has never worked a day in his life and he's worth 11.5 million USD. Where's the social justice in that? 

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:50 | 2712365 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Source?

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 18:19 | 2712446 boogerbently
boogerbently's picture

MSFT Powerpoint!

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:44 | 2712137 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Dumb fucking sheep ... discussing these clowns. Prepare for no election.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:48 | 2712154 Shameful
Shameful's picture

Come now, why wouldn't their be an election?  Talk about bread and circus, people love sham elections!  The illusion of choice is what binds our society together.  Besides if the big boys really preferred one candidate over the other it's a simple matter to rig the vote.  Vote rigging is as old as voting, and now it has been automated so elections can be decided with a click of a mouse.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 18:38 | 2712495 Overfed
Overfed's picture

There will be an "election", but between Romoney and O'bomb-a, the winner is inconsequential. Either way, the "war on terror" will continue, the "war on drugs" will continue, TSA and DHS will continue to expand in scope and power. The drone strikes will not only continue, but escalate. The concerted effort by TPTB to get all of us into our pidgeonholes will continue. The false flag attacks to get us to give up our guns and our liberty will continue.

Face it. We're properly fucked.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:44 | 2712142 pragmatic hobo
pragmatic hobo's picture

just release your tax returns Mr Rombamma, or is it Obummney,

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:47 | 2712151 Haager
Haager's picture

So his income is mostly based on capital gains and dividends - which means he profited from bailouts and QEx to some extend, getting taxpayers money. That obviously means no change on the directive if he becomes elected.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:48 | 2712156 Zap Powerz
Zap Powerz's picture

I dont not want Romney to pay more in taxes.  I want to pay less in taxes.

But I would be remiss if I did not take this opportunity to say that none of this matters nor will any of this change the steep downward trajectory the US economy is on.

I would like to thank ZH for providing a forum where information can be shared so that people can be made aware of the pending collapse and plan accordingly.  Some good info here.  Depressing, but good.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:49 | 2712160 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

"I don’t believe it for a minute, by the way.”

 

Folks, I think this means he does not know.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:27 | 2712288 ParkAveFlasher
ParkAveFlasher's picture

He's bragging. 

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:56 | 2712385 chet
chet's picture

He may not know.  But he has basically just put a floor on the amount he has paid (13%), so here's a question:  Now why won't you release your tax returns? 

We know that 13% is as low as it goes, and presumably some years he paid more, which would make him look (relatively) better.  So now what is his reason to not release them?  Obviously there is something in there besides the tax rate he paid.  Is it the precise nature of his tax shelters?  Did he take advantage of that amnesty program to repatriate money from Swiss accounts that was avoiding taxes?

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 18:11 | 2712422 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

I see your point, and you are probably right in one or more of your surmises. It may simply be that he does not want folks to scrutinize all his income sources. Like someone else on this thread said, he may well be an indirect recipient of bailout funds, or worse. And if other CPAs got his returns, they may find that things do NOT add up. In other words he and others closely associated can't stand up to the attention.

But it is pretty dumb to try to run for office if you are in this fix. What a waste. You should be smart enough to know this will come up.

I'll go back to it. These things are "handled" by other people. The returns are so complex "He" can't answer the questions reporters would have. "He" would need to bring his tax team to the press conference. We would see that "He" does not know because he is as out of touch as he looks.  

I don't love Obama BTW.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 18:16 | 2712436 chet
chet's picture

I see your point.  He may well have no idea.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:49 | 2712161 Racer
Racer's picture

And the rest of us and especially the poorest of us have to pay the most in indirect taxation... i.e., inflation of food and fuel prices over and above stagnant wage growth... if you are lucky enough to have a job that is!

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:50 | 2712164 blindman
blindman's picture

i heard mitty has an ira worth 100 million
plus yet there is a 30 thousand a year
cap on investment.? crazy numbers again.
.Mitt Romney’s IRA is unlikely centerpiece of wealth and tax avoidance
8/11/2012 10
http://www.boston.com/politicalintelligence/2012/08/10/mitt-romney-ira-u...
...

"..Romney said earlier this year that “if there’s an opportunity to save taxes, we like anybody else in this country will follow that opportunity.” Michele Davis, a spokeswoman for the Romney campaign, said, “Governor and Mrs. Romney’s assets are managed on a blind basis by an independent trustee. Governor Romney’s IRA, under that trustee’s management, follows all applicable laws.” As with all IRAs, she noted, taxes are deferred, and “Governor Romney will pay taxes on amounts in the IRA when they are withdrawn.”

By any measure, Romney’s IRA is extraordinary. Its approximate size can be gleaned from the financial disclosure report he filed for the 2012 presidential campaign. It details the “W. Mitt Romney IRA” as holding a variety of assets worth between $20 million to $100 million. It contains 26 assets, ranging from a “Marriott Vacations” item worth up to $15,000 to a Bain-related trust worth up to $25 million." ...
.
The Ramones - Blitzkrieg Bop (With Lyrics)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K56soYl0U1w
hey ho, let's go, the blitzkrieg bop.

Fri, 08/17/2012 - 16:17 | 2715206 blindman
blindman's picture

so mit might be several hundred years old
to be within the law regarding his ira total?
i thought as much. he is an old dude, don't
let the make-up fool u.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:51 | 2712174 TheGardener
TheGardener's picture

Well, at this tax rate figure he is just one of us.

Except that we are left with after all those implicit and explicit taxes with exactly the same INCOME percentage,
not tax.

Be a serf at 10% keep, or rule `em at 10% official tax
and get all your perks 100 percent tax free.

Income is a silly commoners statement by the way.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:52 | 2712175 Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

He does make sure to pay the full rate of sales tax on all his tupees. Them aren't cheap.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:30 | 2712300 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Does he have a yacht? Does he keep it somewhere specific with the intent of avoiding taxes? I seem to recall some other rich guy who occassionally lives in Massachussets was doing that. Started with a SWIFT boat and graduated all the way up to a really nice yacht. What was his name again...oh yeah, Kerry, the guy who ran for president in 2004 against Bush.

I don't have enough to need to avoid taxes, unless I dredge up the PMs I lost in a boating accident and try to exchange them for fiat.

Wait, what am I thinking. Exchange for fiat? What was I thinking!?

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:51 | 2712177 foodstampbarry
foodstampbarry's picture

Where's Barry's college transcripts?

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:58 | 2712196 Getting Old Sucks
Thu, 08/16/2012 - 18:12 | 2712421 Walt D.
Walt D.'s picture

Was Kenya even an independent country when Obama was born?

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 21:09 | 2712874 AU5K
AU5K's picture

I have a source that says his grades were all Ds and Fs.

 

DUMBEST PRESIDENT EVER.

 

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:53 | 2712179 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Romney and Obama are both a plague on society but,I don't know why the question is based around him paying so "little". I think the question needs to be why do we have a government so big that it demands so much? Starve the beast and end the war machine. Besides there isn't one person out there who doesn't look for every tax deduction they can get, liberal or conservative.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:54 | 2712183 blobbus
blobbus's picture

Wait, by "taxes" doe he mean, "federal income tax"? Or just any kind of tax? (sales, property, utilities, etc).

If he is including any kind of tax in that statement, and with all his the big houses he owns, said percentage federal income tax paid may be a bit low compared to the average middle class american

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:33 | 2712307 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Who owns more houses, Romney or AlGore? That's as meaningful a topic as how much tax did Romney pay.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:56 | 2712190 Seasmoke
Seasmoke's picture

would we be hearing about Romneys taxes , if he wasnt running aginst Hussein Obama.......didnt think so

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 18:52 | 2712527 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

how soemone made their millions is a pretty goddam important question to ask when considering voting for them for President of the United States. Regardless of who they are running against. I think they do a more thourogh investigation before they hire some one for a FBI job. Ive been aksed the darndest questions by them. Way more intimate than tax returns.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 19:06 | 2712554 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I think finding out all we can about a person's past is pretty important to know about anybody running for president. Why did Obama pay so much to suppress his college transcripts? Where was he born? Oh I get it. It's only important to know everything about one candidate. Go blue team!

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 19:51 | 2712677 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

I'm voting for RP, I want the FED to be dead. this article is about mittens. Obama bashing is for a diffrent article. He pissed me off as soon as he started rubbing elbows with Jamie Dimon. I just cant resist fucking with all the ignorant conservatives on here. There just isint enought radical lefties on here to warrant my wrath. (yet)

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 20:33 | 2712793 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

Well at least you're voting for Ron Paul. One suggestion... If you're going to be going after people don't give them so much ammo to come back at you with.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 20:48 | 2712821 silverserfer
silverserfer's picture

well that wouldnt be as much fun. This is Fight c.... after all.

I have a feeeling a lot of the douchies that i'm pissing off havent even seen the movie.

Plus I can just picture those hotheads getting all red in the face. Theyre all the king on their little hill untill the enter the octagon.

I guess im going to have to bash a few hippies to apease the them befoe i get lynched. 

 

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 16:56 | 2712191 fuu
fuu's picture

Aww look, the Cancer is getting indignant!

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:10 | 2712237 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

When will there be a real representative of american people in the WH?

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:45 | 2712348 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

A definition is needed for 'real representative of american people'. Perhaps we should be asking which presidents have had a real job outside of government and how did they do in office. Is there any correlation there? Not comprehensive, but:Carter was a peanut farmer; Reagan was an actor (wait, I did say 'real job', didn't I) and broadcaster; Harding was a newspaper publisher; Hoover was a mining engineer. Mixed occupations, mixed effectiveness as president.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 21:05 | 2712767 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

As long as we forget about Congress, continue to give them a pass, continue to zero-in on "the leader" -- it doesn't necessarily matter.

Congress is where the power lies, Congress is responsible for this finally-farcical "tax" situation with no solution, and the collective "We's" attention on The Leader while forgetting about Congress simply positions us for what is coming -- we are playing along and have not a clue.

Shame on us.

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:12 | 2712242 Hedgetard55
Hedgetard55's picture

What did he do to earn so much money?

Thu, 08/16/2012 - 17:28 | 2712291 css1971
css1971's picture

Became a parasite.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!