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Ron Paul Explains His Plan For "Monetary Freedom" And Returning To The Gold Standard

Tyler Durden's picture


Ron Paul lays it out: "We know what to do - we did it once after the Civil War period, we went from a paper standard back to the gold standard, and the event wasn't that dramatic. But today the big problem is that both the conservatives and liberals have an big apetite for big government for different reasons, therefore they need the Fed to tie them over and monetize the debt. So if you don't get rid of that appetite it's going to be more difficult, but the transition isn't that difficult. You have to get your house in order; you have to balance the budget, you have to not run up debt, and you have to promise not to print any more money... I would like to have a transition period and just legalize gold money, gold and silver as legal tender, and work our way back... We want to legalize the use of gold and silver as the constitution dictates, rather than punishing the people who try to do that... I am quite convinced that the system we have will not be maintained - that's what these last 4 years was all about, and that's what the turmoil in Europe is all about. The question is are they going to move toward a constitutional form of money. or are we going to go another step further into international money - instead of having an international gold standard based on the market, are we going to go toward a UN, IMF standard where they are going to control with the use of force another fiat standard. I consider that a very, very dangerous move." And precisely due to that piece of phenomenal insight which nobody else in the GOP or Democratic roster is even parsecs away from grasping, is why Paul can never be allowed to be elected, why he must be mocked and ridiculed by a co-opted ADHD media which focuses on how many mistresses some other idiotic presidential candidates has, instead of focusing on the one person who grasps the big picture: the status quo can not be held accountable to a political leader who understand not only how the system is rigged, but why it is broken to begin with and that there actually is a way out. However, to the "status quo's" chagrin, one that involves the wiping out of generations of plundered middle class wealth to keep the richest denizens of 'extremistan' ever richer.


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Tue, 11/29/2011 - 00:35 | 1924073 gangland
gangland's picture

desperate bitchezzzz. get radical fuckerz

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 00:38 | 1924081 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Paul tells the truth. 

Seek and ye shall find.....definately with music.

Whose reach, and melodies, will bring peace......

Paul/Kuti '12

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 00:44 | 1924099 gangland
gangland's picture

 iwill say this about Dr. Paul:


the way i found him was in the deep early years of chimp bush, i would see this lone texas republican (i'm a lefty mostly with somne libertarian and fascist tendencies),


so i would see this texas republ;ican speak during the house open sessions on cspan after all house busines swas done and here was a guy railing aginst bush. from texas.


the only thing that bothers me about him is his absolutism.


it is attractive and repulsive at the same time


he is the MOST CONSISTNET elected official i have ever seen. look at his youtube clips from when he was new, he said verbatim the same stuff.


i respect that.


but he is an absolutist. not flexible / subtle enough for my taste os iwont supoport him... as much i do respect, count on him and support him, i wouldnt want for prez,,,shit he'd get shoit anyway.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 00:45 | 1924103 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

by flexible i think you mean he doesn't flip-flop

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 00:57 | 1924128 gangland
gangland's picture

im not sure you can be flexible and flip flop at the same time [duh all of dc? shrug..wall street, fire economy?...blah ]....there should be a point of sanity...which is what ... he is truly 1 out of 435 logically consistent. i've looked for holes, and it would be a reach for me to get into that...

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:07 | 1924145 wanklord
wanklord's picture


By appealing to tons of bullshit about the Constitution and other patriotic crap, Congressman Ron Paul is able to seduce his brute and ignorant constituency while doing nothing at all in Congress (a clever way to make easy money). He is just part of the establishment while pretending to be a "genuine patriot." Dr. Paul is also a mediocre version of one of Leo Strauss' categories of society: the Gentlemen

The gentlemen, are lovers of honour and glory. They are the most ingratiating towards the conventions of their society – that is, the illusions of the cave. They are true believers in God, honour, and moral imperatives. They are ready and willing to embark on acts of great courage and self-sacrifice at a moment's notice.

Besides that, Americans are a bunch of stupid animals easy to manipulate and subdue. The sooner the US economy collapses the better, so these brutes will finally learn NOT to live beyond their means.


Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:19 | 1924163 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

The way you use the word brute makes me think of the NY Post police blotter.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:26 | 1924345 gangland
gangland's picture

#NYPD Paid Detail Unit $37/ hr  non-union

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 04:42 | 1924496 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

Is Wanklord going to post the exact same thing a bazillion fucking times? And his posts are always triggered by keywords.... I smell a BOT. I think being a BOT qualifies for a good zapping.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 06:30 | 1924580 clymer
clymer's picture

he likes collecting red down-mods. It's like cyber-troll food

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 07:51 | 1924640 spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

fuck leo strauss, fuck neo-conservatism, fuck PNAC, fuck karl rove and fuck platonism/neoplatonism. 

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 08:38 | 1924731 Pope Clement
Pope Clement's picture

and fuck Aristotelian 'isness' while you are at it too - Slick Willie only recent pol to understand that Korszibskian notion 

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 10:43 | 1925240 bernorange
bernorange's picture

If you want to learn more about Ron Paul's position on parallel use of gold and silver as currency, have a look at his HR 1098 bill.  Contact your Congressman and ask him to co-sponsor/support it.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:12 | 1924168 Hugh_Jorgan
Hugh_Jorgan's picture

You go Ron! I hope whoever becomes the POTUS, chooses you to be Treasury Secretary so you can use your real talent!

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:43 | 1924259 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

ron paul is right about so much more than the monetary system (and, to my mind, far less controversially).  he wants to end the endless wars against islamic countries, stop supporting israel's persecution of the palestinians (absolutely counterproductive to the u.s.'s strategic interests and any humane tendencies), end the war on drugs (possibly the worst misuse of police power in history), restore civil liberties, stop the bank bailouts and increase transparency.  you think a secretary of the treasury can do this or any of it?  whose secretary of the treasury?  gingrich?  romney?  obama?  not a chance in hell.  i too think he would be killed if he came close to the levers of power but if he's game so am i.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:00 | 1924292 eureka
eureka's picture

Bill Still, anyone? Secret Of Oz? Gold-Money is manipulated as easily by the Elite as fiat?

What say yee?  No four letter words, please. real arguments. I am all ears.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:11 | 1924311 akak
akak's picture

You mean Bill Still the Fiat Shill, who HATES the very idea of free-market money, or the separation of money-issuing authority from the State? The Bill Still who demands that fiat money continue to be issued by governments, with only some minor and inconsequential tweaking of the system to make it look "reformed"?  That Bill Still?

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:29 | 1924352 eureka
eureka's picture

Yes, that Bill Still - his movie shows that banksters created boom and bust cycles many times before using precisely gold, which they can hord just as easily as they control fiat today via the Fed - ...

if Bill Still's arguments are wrong, and or his history lessons false, do you know how...?

and how does the common man secure himself againts banksters hording all gold and then first dumping prices then buying up the rest and then pumping it again .... ?

is there any financial fairness for the people - except by controlling small elected bodies in small regions and states and removing powers from the Federal Government... - Ellen Brown suggest State Banks issuing money like they do in North Dakota.... what say you to that idea???

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 03:05 | 1924412 Michael
Michael's picture

Unlike Newt or Mitt, Ron Paul can keep his ideas on the same track.

Flip and Flop; Newt and Mitt

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 06:57 | 1924593 margaris
margaris's picture

Bill Still has a point, thats why he is running for president in 2012 if you didnt know!

Its really about WHO controls the quantity of money.

Gold does not address the WHO, but the WHAT.

Gold is distributed unfairly to begin with (banks have most of it).


Humanity will have to face this problem always and always again, until there is a solution:

How can we have a small government that fears the people and therefore serves them with utmost respect?


Tue, 11/29/2011 - 07:12 | 1924608 akak
akak's picture

Gold is distributed unfairly to begin with (banks have most of it

That is patently untrue --- world central banks hold less than 20% of the outstanding gold supply, and even throwing in the bullion banks only raises that figure slightly.  MOST of the world's gold is in private hands.

Please stop peddling this lie, one of many in the dishonest, malicious pro-fiat campaign of Bill Still the Fiat Shill.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 10:03 | 1924982 margaris
margaris's picture

I will research that.

In the Meantime RP 2012

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 03:33 | 1924445 AUD
AUD's picture

Ellen Brown is a fucking idiot.

One of her articles champions the Commonwealth Bank of Australia, "on who's credit was financed Australia's involvement in the First World War". The First World War destroyed the lives of tens of thousands & bankrupted the nation, we're still paying for it.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 05:21 | 1924537 akak
akak's picture

Bill Still the Fiat Shill and Ellen Brown the Money Clown are both rabid, dyed-in-the-wool statists, and in regards to honest monetary reform are nothing but disingenuous wolves in sheeps' (pun intended) clothing.  Their grasp of monetary history is radically weak to nonexistent, or else they purposely spread half-truths and lies, particularly in regard to gold, to further their pro-fiat, pro-statist monetary campaigns.  Beware these two!

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 06:28 | 1924578 i-dog
i-dog's picture

I gave you +1 for being spot on with your assessment of Bill 'Shill' and Ellen Brown. They are indeed both disingenuous keynesian statists ... or worse.

But they are actually wolves in sheep's clothing ... not sheeps' (whether pun or no pun intended).

Just thought I'd help you to learn English punctuation, so that you may better help others ... as you are often wont. ;)

No need to thank me. Just keep up the good work!

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 07:20 | 1924610 akak
akak's picture

;-)  You devil!

Actually, "sheeps' " seemed proper to me, as I interpret the phrase to refer to plural sheep, not a single sheep.  "Sheep's" would refer to the clothing of a single sheep, would it not?  But then again, there is no separate plural of the word "sheep" (i.e., "sheeps"), so I am not certain if your way or mine is technically more "correct".

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 09:35 | 1924881 Advoc8tr
Advoc8tr's picture

Each of them is a wolf in sheep's clothing, while together they are wolves in sheeps' clothing.  I agree with your plurality observation.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 10:31 | 1925166 i-dog
i-dog's picture

There is no such thing as a sheeps, or many sheeps ... so you can't tack the possessive apostrophe onto the end.

Here's a citation for my usage:'s+clothing

Do you have a citation for your unusual dialect?

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 20:09 | 1928021 akak
akak's picture


There is no such thing as a sheeps, or many sheeps

Clearly, you have never met the American public, nor most Congressmen.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 23:50 | 1928539 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Touché. :)

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 04:53 | 1924511 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

The gold manipulation that you speak of requries the manipulators to actually have the gold first. This slows them down. They DON'T like that. Nor can they create it out of thin air. They also DON'T like that. Oh and talk to the State of New York about whether they are sound purveyors of money, handing out development 'GRANTS' to business from the State is legal now.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:21 | 1924332 Z Beeblebrox
Z Beeblebrox's picture

1. Let people trade with whatever they want. Gold, bitcoin, Bob's Joule Tokens, whatever.

2. Stop pretending it's moral to allow one class of person to legally steal from the rest.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:32 | 1924357 gangland
gangland's picture

bravo! end neoliberalism.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 04:54 | 1924513 rufusbird
rufusbird's picture

Bravo! end jingoism!

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 09:46 | 1924921 BigJim
BigJim's picture

If you look at wikipedia's definition of neoliberalism, one of its key features is market-based interest rates.

This implies free-market money... which doesn't exist anywhere now, to my knowledge, and hasn't for a long time.

Ergo - we have not been living under neo-liberalism... at least, if we agree wiki's definition is correct.

This is the problem with labels like conservative, liberal, libertarian, neo-liberal - their meaning shifts with time, and the movements get intentionally co-opted by scum like Newt Gingrich.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:36 | 1924362 eureka
eureka's picture

If a democratically elected STATE government - under campaign finance reform with no corporate and no hidden contributions - controls the money velocity for the state (as North Dakota does) - and if at the same time STATE law prohibits said state gevernment from spending money it doesn't have - could we the people then all benefit from having such a state control of money velocity COMBINED with and competing with privately minted gold and silver coins...???

I look forward to your POVs. Thanks.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 03:14 | 1924421 fnord88
fnord88's picture

As long as there is competing money, ie Gold and silver for people to save with, almost any fiat is fine. Even our current problems with the US dollar would never have got this far if people had known to save gold and spend fiat. The system has worked ( ish ), because people believed in it. Once they don't, it's game over.

Like a lot of things, most of the problems stem from pig ignorance. I had 16 years of quality education, including a physics degree from Australias best Uni, not once in that time did any teacher mention what money was, the downsides to inflation, the definition of fiat, debts role in the economy or how fractional reserve banking works. Did find myself compulsively buying shit i did not need, to impress people I did not even like though.

I'm beginning to think that was not a fucking coincidence.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 09:39 | 1924899 Advoc8tr
Advoc8tr's picture

I've often wondered that myself.... I think it's pretty clear it is no accident.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 04:58 | 1924520 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

Here's some state controlled money in New York being handed out to business as Grants, i'm sure that will make for a fine and balanced money system.

"In this case, that means providing state grants and loans to private companies like IBM Corp. and Global Foundries Inc. for economic development."

Oh and New York had the money they spent. Having two competing monetary systems at once to have competition keep things in check is a pipe dream.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 05:05 | 1924527 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture


Tue, 11/29/2011 - 06:36 | 1924583 clymer
clymer's picture

the feds won't even let the states control their own hemp laws, or have local organic food co-op's.. Do you really believe they will allow capital to get siphoned into states that would propose competing local currency to the FED's FRN's?? 

It might happen short-term, but eventually some federal court ruling is going to ham-string the states into using only FRN's, which will pave the way for a daxton brown event.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 07:25 | 1924614 Bendromeda Strain
Bendromeda Strain's picture

Eureka, you do realize there are fundamental differences between N. Dakota and Massachusetts, correct? How about N. Dakota and Washington DC, etc. The reasons that a state bank might work in a place like North Dakota show why it would not work under Chicago control, capice? Bill Still, Ellen Brown and their assclown attack poodle Denninger need to tell us all why they hate freedom so much.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 06:41 | 1924584 oVErME
Tue, 11/29/2011 - 10:14 | 1925060 FlyOverCountryBoy
FlyOverCountryBoy's picture

Eureka, you wrote: "Gold-Money is manipulated as easily by the Elite as fiat?"

That would be true if there is a fixed exchange rate (fixed by government).  But if the market is allowed to set the price of gold (and silver), as Ron Paul recommends, it will not be so easily manipulated via inflation and deflation. 

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:02 | 1924281 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Those who are actively side-lining him now, and who have watered down the scope of his financial oversight committee, will never let him anywhere near the Treasury!!

He has many friends on the conservative right (he is a former member of the John Birch Society, and is well connected in the CNP), but none of them are supporting him ... they are all supporting luciferian bozos like Gingrich (33° Mason) and Romney (Mormon), for a reason.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:12 | 1924169 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

The whole first world lives beyond its means.  Yeah, America is flush in shit, but s is Europe.  So is Japan.  Cheap oil equals this. 

I don't know what your rant has to do with Paul.  You do seem to write the same thing everytime, and I don't think you understand Paul.

We are all men here.  If you don't like Paul, fine, don't vote for him.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:46 | 1924219 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Ron Paul won't be elected because the Lame Ass Stream Media (with all of their cable, network, newspaper and radio channels owned by 6 corporations), both deeply captured (by kleptocratic, Crony Corporatists - NOT free market capitalists; important distinction there) political parties, and a fractional reserve banking cartel (international in composition and hell bent on wiping out the notion of sovereignty, using fiat and the intentionally induced boom-bust cycles to help do so) will all do whatever it takes to sabotage him.

Hell, the Main Stream Media has already decided all on their own, being the objective reporters that they are (/snark), that they not only will sabotage Ron Paul, but that they will barely acknowledge his existence, portraying him as the 'fringe,' even when he consistently comes in first in GOP straw poll after GOP straw poll. What a great medai we have, no? I had always thought it was their job to convey facts, rather than tow the agenda of the elite.

Decades from now, more people will look back at this period and daydream about how much greater, freer and honest their governments, lives and economic and social lives would have been if only "we had listened to Ron Paul instead of the globalist kleptocrats."

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:50 | 1924270 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

interesting times bring interesting results.  the dissonance of the msm treatment of paul combined with any success of his (which, should the economy/equity markets go further south becomes more likely) is sure to attract attention, comment, support and, perhaps, some larger inkling about the msm, etc.  

the msm didn't understand rock and roll at the time and it did ok.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:10 | 1924306 i-dog
i-dog's picture

The MSM back then was in diverse ownership and r'n'r got plenty of coverage. Now, the MSM is in just a few hands that are totally in step with the oligarchy.

Paul is popular in Repub exit polls because political activists know about him - but when it comes to primaries and the full media campaigns, the public will never get to hear about him.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:10 | 1924308 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Going against the grain can be cool.  It may just be cool to root for the underdog candidate.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:16 | 1924322 i-dog
i-dog's picture

I would bark for him if I thought that federal politics would make any difference at all to the course of DC's subjugation of the whole country. It is directed from outside the country and will not change ... it must be dismantled completely, not supported by voting.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:17 | 1924325 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

This is why I would vote for him.  He would put a wrench in the Fascist System.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 03:02 | 1924409 i-dog
i-dog's picture

I think you're deluded, but good luck with the "hoping for a change" thing. However, you may want to chat with a few liberals and see how their messiah worked out for them, before putting more eggs in that basket.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 03:42 | 1924450 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Regardless as to whether you or he is 'correct,' whatever that means, I would vote for Ron Paul, also, only because I refuse to comply by a construct whereby I am forced to only vote for people who are pre-deemed "electable" by the MSM/Political Pundit/Lobbyists (*working to spread the Crony Capitalists-Kleptocrats agenda).

Besides, if real progress is ever to be made, to reverse the decay, it will come when enough people like us, thinking as I do in this regard, decide to do the same.

At that point, they'd have to rig and/or cancel elections, in order to thwart what they perceive as threats to to their grip on power.

And then we reach critical mass, and as far as I am concerned, the sooner we get to that point, the sooner we find out whether this republic still has enough people cherishing something so fundamental to the human condition that it is truly essential and priceless, and are therefore willing to rise to Patrick Henry's ultimatum.

Give Me Liberty Or Give Me Death
Tue, 11/29/2011 - 09:07 | 1924803 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

Kind of like Pascal's wager I suppose. Better to believe in good than nothing since by winning you gain everything.


If/When the msm does start to get behind Dr.Paul, I would start to worry whether he has been bought. I've often been told that editorial control is absolute in the US mainstream media - they report whatever they are told to report by the advertisers/owners/financiers/backers, and contrarian views to editorial content is impossible. Even innocuous Jamie Oliver was whining about it after coming home from his failure to give kids decent meals in the 'States. It really would be amazing to have Dr.Paul in the oval office, but probably the only way he will get there will be by being bought in this filthy game of politics, and if tptb can't buy him, they'll have no compunctions about dealing with him the old fashioned way. Depressing.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 08:02 | 1924648 isudas
isudas's picture

i-dog, you certainly won my vote for the funniest response of the day. Had to wipe the tears from my eyes.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 10:16 | 1925070 kill switch
kill switch's picture

That was a good one sleep dog...Cheers

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 10:05 | 1924998 BigJim
BigJim's picture

...I think you're deluded, but good luck with the "hoping for a change" thing. However, you may want to chat with a few liberals and see how their messiah worked out for them, before putting more eggs in that basket.

Obama spouted a lot of collectivist twaddle, and the collectivists voted for him. And he delivered. Did the collectivists get everything they wanted? No... but Obama promised to expand government power, and he kept his promise.

Ron Paul has consistently tried to reign back the power of government over a period of decades. Comparing him to Obama is facile, to put it politely.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 04:45 | 1924497 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

The "rebel" image worked for Apple.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 03:08 | 1924415 Freddie
Freddie's picture

TV has always been shit and it was invented for brainwashing morons and control.  It has always been owned by those in control and still is.  

Go watch your Star Trek reruns.  If you watch it - you support your serfdom. 

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 03:23 | 1924432 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

This gets thumbed down on Zero Hedge?  What the fuck has happened to ZH?  The man is stating an obvious truth.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 03:31 | 1924442 Colonel
Colonel's picture

Pod People are over running ZH.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 03:38 | 1924447 fnord88
fnord88's picture

I didn't thumb down, but I do like science fiction. Great books become OK movies. Think animal farm, 1984, 2001.

Ok some great books become steaming piles of shit. Think Hitchhikers guide.

But the Matrix was fucking awesome, so fuck you if you don't like it. Plus Jericho was cool.

It's the adds that really fry your brain. I have not watched tv for years ( i download everything i like, yes I steal, and yes, if I could download a car, I fucking would), and evertime I go to a freinds place, its the advertsing which makes me want to kill myself.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 03:50 | 1924459 Colonel
Colonel's picture

Hear ya, science fiction movies can be a great escape from the mess that is this world.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 15:11 | 1926692 PianoRacer
PianoRacer's picture

You and I, fnord88, we are of a kind.  1TB drives are cheap, a 12Mbps pipe is cheap, and the Pirate Bay has been in the same place for the better part of the last eight friggin' years.

The content can be purile, sure, but there are diamonds in the rough, like the works of Roddenberry and Henson and Groening. Nobody can deny that these people are artists, or that they create (or have created) art.

BUT THE FUCKING ADVERTISEMENTS! I didn't start having strong negative reactions to ads until I went strictly torrent-only and cable-free. It seriously is like nails on the chalkboard to me now. I have come to realize that NFL games have, on balance, more advertisements (mostly for trucks and credit cards, that should tell you something) than actual football.

Advertisements really, really, really do rot your brain and give you a warped view of society. Shutting them out of your life is one of the best first steps you can take on the path towards true personal freedom.

Glad to know there are others out there like me, thanks fnord88 :) 

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 09:15 | 1924817 margaris
margaris's picture

No, TV was not invented FOR Brainwashing morons...

It was HIJACKED once it was found convenient for one-way-communication.

TPTB cant invent anything, they can only use what we people invent.

Many different people have contributed to the invention and uprise of the internet.

Thats why TPTB hate the internet, they didnt plan for it, and they dont see a way to hijack it, haha!

Internet is a two-way-communication, here we can all talk back and give feedback and call bullshit when we see it, etc...

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 18:44 | 1927806 Alexmai
Alexmai's picture

"Ron Paul won't be elected because the Lame Ass Stream Media (with all of their cable, network, newspaper and radio channels owned by 6 corporations), both deeply captured (by kleptocratic, Crony Corporatists"

totally agree!!

How will MSM spin a failed Black Friday? We know they will, but how?

Wed, 11/30/2011 - 14:29 | 1931396 passwordis
passwordis's picture

We are all men here.


 Right, expect when you resort to ad hominem attacks on others, which allows you the convenience of not actually having to research and comprehend the subject matter. (peak earl, alCIAda, global warming etc.)


Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:48 | 1924267 Divine Wind
Divine Wind's picture

"while doing nothing at all in Congress (a clever way to make easy money)."


Congressman Paul is in Congress because the people of his district elected him to go there there and represent their interests. Given how long he has been there, reelected time after time, I would say his real bosses like what he is doing thus far.

If that does not sit right with you, then pound sand.


Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:55 | 1924276 akak
akak's picture

I wish we had a shitload more of Congressweasels who similarly "did nothing".

Since when is increasing the power of the federal government a sign of a "successful" representative, anyway?

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:07 | 1924307 defencev
defencev's picture

Besides that, Americans are a bunch of stupid animals easy to manipulate and subdue. The sooner the US economy collapses the better, so these brutes will finally learn NOT to live beyond their means.

   I disagree with that. But even if your wish comes true, then what?

I yet to see anybody proposes anything workable for USA or the world for that matter. People either want other people money and new nomenklatura

(Marxists) or the place where there are no rules (anarchists). But both approaches NEVER WORKED IN REALITY. Where is that genius which solves the ultimate problem: how organize animals called humans in the society which would work. I see no answer to this question or at least better answer than the world we live in. What I do know is that president Obama can be reelected. And if this happens, we can easily end up with civil war and total collapse. While it may appeal to some (see quote above), believe me, you do not want to live through this

and have total disaster on the other side of the arc. For pure pragmatic reasons I believe that number one priority should be Obama defeat in the coming elections and who will be next president while, of course, matters but of secondary importance...


Tue, 11/29/2011 - 03:06 | 1924413 Freddie
Freddie's picture

TV ccontrols the reatrds in America.  If you watch then you enable your overlords.  You viewership keps you and the rest of serfs.


Tue, 11/29/2011 - 04:48 | 1924498 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

Put down the bowl of Anger O's cereal and pick up a book on relaxation.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:24 | 1924338 gangland
gangland's picture

^^^ +100%

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 03:01 | 1924403 Colonel
Colonel's picture

"doing nothing at all in Congress..." Hopefully you jest Dr.Paul has tried reform many times over the course of his career. What can one lone man do? Maybe if he was a lefty dictator he could "get more done"?

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 08:18 | 1924686 flattrader
flattrader's picture

When I listen to Ron Paul talk about or around social issues (which is rarely) I hear a "Leave It Beaver" tape running that makes me think this guy is firmly stuck in the 1950s.

When he's forced to open his mouth for real and speak to these issues as a serious candidate, he'll be laughed off the presidential stage.

He's got no chance.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 09:47 | 1924923 IAmNotMark
IAmNotMark's picture

When I listen to Ron Paul, I hear the only politician saying that the federal government is going in the wrong direction.  He is the only candidate that wants a smaller government.  Liberty, personal freedom, and limited government is his message to America.

You're today's insane America, he's got no chance. 

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 08:42 | 1924738 razorthin
razorthin's picture

No shit, fool.  If there were honest money and no credit, it would be impossible to live beyond means.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 10:35 | 1925190 Abiotic Oil
Abiotic Oil's picture

Making money?  Crawl back in your hole fed-wanker.

Congressman Ron Paul has returned $141,580 of unspent office funds to the US Treasury!

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 10:40 | 1925216 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

wanklord I just logged in to say you are a PUD

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 11:10 | 1925367 mophead
mophead's picture


Thus far 9 to 141 in your disfavor. You're gonna have some serious karma issues my friend.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:05 | 1924148 trav7777
trav7777's picture

bring back the gold standard?  LOL...won't matter.  Won't fking matter a bit.

Can't print oil.  Gold can't make more oil come out either.  It's a futile discussion by futile people.  Ron Paul doesn't fucking "GET IT" or else he'd be saying what I'm saying.

He'd be saying look, you motherfuckin dumb bitches, if you don't want shit to STOP, the lights to fucking go out, it's time to start FACING REALITY and start planning for what kind of a society is feasible going forward with the resource supply rates we can expect.  No more cornucopian bullshit, no more rose colored glasses.  Fucking REALITY.

And in the context of that discussion, we will have to collectively decide as a society whether it is WORTH IT to us to have an artificial black middle class, to have intergenerational transfer payments, to have handicap spaces out the yinyang and to modify entire 100-year old subway systems to accommodate the occasional wheelchair, whether vast war machines are beneficial, whether the police state we've erected serves us at all, how much power we expect to use, if having every idiot kid "go to college" to waste 4 years studying drunkenness and promiscuity is good societal policy.

See, in some nations, particularly places like Iceland, they are able to have these adult conversations.  During the collapse, their PM spelled it out, blazing truth at them with both barrels.  The situation is DIRE, the PM said, but we will pull through; and they did and have.

But we steadfastly REFUSE here, as does much of Europe and the UK, to even begin to question whether the silly shit we believe holds any water whatsoever, whether the windmills we've tilted at for 30 or 40 or 70 fucking years are even REAL or not.  We could have been on Mars, we possibly could have had gasoline fuel cells, and a variety of other things...instead we got ALL the stuff I described above, plus vast suburban sprawl, granite countertopped McMansions, and effectively 20 or more years of entirely SUNK COSTS.

So yeah, RP rah rah, wtfever.  Until I hear him speak the Truth That Shall Not Be Spoken, I really can't get enthusiastic about him.  Reality has its own agenda, and Mother Nature always bats last.  She has vicious opposite field power and total plate coverage.  She makes Steroid Bonds look like your average Tball player.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:13 | 1924174 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Jack the price of gold up and maybe OPEC will trade oil for gold, or at least buy debt if it is paid in gold.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:24 | 1924203 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

I think Trav means that we are hitting up against resource constraints and that gold-money won't change that, so its moot.

That said, if all hell is going to break loose and we are going back to a 4B population from where we are now, I would like to do it on a gold standard.

I haven't even begun to digest the monetary implications of a rapidly shrinking world population in terms of my ass getting old. But that will take time ... monetary collapse is imminent and will happen first.



Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:33 | 1924233 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

+ 1

I hear you there Crazed One re what our aging asses are going to do if/when TSHTF.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:47 | 1926197 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

I'll tell you DCRB, and that's take up high risk sports.

"Daddy, are you going base jumping again today?"

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:39 | 1924251 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Lets say you wake up tomorrow and gold is at $5k/ounce.  DXY is at 50.  And oil is at $200/b.  It's all relative.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:18 | 1924188 Ahmeexnal
Ahmeexnal's picture

Just as you couldn't print coal. Or you couldn't print steam. Or you couldn't print waterwheels. Or you couldn't print horses. Or you couldn't print dinosaurs.

Sheeple have been screaming peak oil since Standard Oil's Oklahoma oilfields dried up.


Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:27 | 1924210 CrazyCooter
CrazyCooter's picture

Then put your money where your mouth is an move into the middle of a megapolitan area ...

... and live the high life! Cheap energy for all!

Me, I will stay in Alaska and watch it on the internet.



P.S. I worry about family, but I can only do so much crazy that people listen to...

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:36 | 1924241 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

What is the food supply up situation up there in AK?

I hear as well re family...

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 03:28 | 1924438 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

You'd better grow a LOT of potatoes to get you through winter.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:56 | 1926235 Hook Line and S...
Hook Line and Sphincter's picture

Lots and lots of things to eat under your feet... everywhere. In my neck of the concrete we have argentine ants, bees, grasshoppers, cattails, daylillies growing everywhere, dandelion growing everywhere, fish, rabbits. I live in suburbia plus drainage ditch. Don't forget to kill off the top predators in your area ie owls n hawks! Check out what the Greeks ate when the Germans came in down for a party...lots of 'horta'. Make friends with those who have swimming pools and get several microfilters. Damn people, we're going camping! In this lovely world you must remember that you might become a source of protein for your neighbor, so always share your spoils of insects and weeds.

Hook Line and Sphincter ( ! )J

(Does nobody see my ass with a hook right next to it? Isn't it titilating?)

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 08:43 | 1924742 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

That is one of the more r#t@rded links I've seen.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:42 | 1924257 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Sheeple have been screaming peak oil since Standard Oil's Oklahoma oilfields dried up.

There is a difference between US oil production and world production.  And there is a diference between the EROEI of a waterwheel and the EROEI of oil.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:47 | 1924364 i-dog
i-dog's picture

World population at the advent of the steam engine (c.1800) was just 900 million.

At the beginning of the 'oil rush' (c.1870) it was 1.2 billion.

Now it is 7 billion and rising.

How many nuclear plants are you expecting to be built in Africa, Indonesia, the Middle East and Asia??

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:27 | 1924212 Teamtc321
Teamtc321's picture

How much does it cost to dig it out of the ground?

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:18 | 1924328 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture


Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:44 | 1924262 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

You're an idiot "Defeatist"...

And your "futile" attempts to salvage their corrupt system...oh, excuse me,..."feudal" attempts to salvage their system speaks to your "clueless" nature.

You 'rail' that people are wasting their time....

....of course you spent quite a few pages/paragraphs to try and make your drivel seem palatable.


Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:56 | 1924283 anomalous
anomalous's picture

Trav7777, true dumbshit.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:01 | 1924293 Sizzurp
Sizzurp's picture

The gold standard will not save us from resource constraints, but it will save us from a rapacious government hell bent on making idiotic decisions because they are first in line to get the funny money.  Fiat paper money loots the middle class, destroys real capital, and creates malinvestment.  These are all things we cannot afford going forward. We no longer have the luxury of time. So much of the waste you cite is facilitated by big governemnt and their paper money games. How can you not be a proponent of sound money that takes power away from these idiots?

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 08:48 | 1924748 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

It is not that he dislikes the oligarchs' methods, it is that he wishes he was the one calling the shots and "planning" everything. Most of the peak oil people think there is a need to "plan" what the little people do. It's for their own good. Just look at trav, he knows what is best for everyone. Their jealousy of the oligarchs makes trav and flak sometimes sound correct, but they are just b1tches.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:04 | 1924299 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

hey trav, with the actual exception of giving peak oil a first priority (certainly freer markets would price it higher which would make the economy more nearly acknowledge its "peakness") and your potty mouth (and finger), ron paul actually comes far closer to your views, with respect to questioning the war machine and the police state, for example, than anyone else on the political horizon.  

ron paul would probably also not put wheelchair access and government subsidies for higher education at the top of his wish list either.  personally i'm not against either particularly but we have some really pressing problems and i am willing to not let the perfect be the enemy of the good, if you get my drift.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:53 | 1924343 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture




Such a dumb, selfish, resentful little rant from the mind of a fatherless child (your quote: "motherfucker didn't give a shit about me"). Your admission this afternoon that you were abandoned/neglected/unloved/whatever by your father speaks volumes about your "fuck you" attitude towards the world (indeed, your avatar is more than a little fitting) and your projection of hatred onto others. Rather than spewing your psychological debris all over this forum, go see a therapist.  You need it.  Bad.  Your resentment and bitterness is eroding your sanity. 

Your world is one of pure social darwinism, right?  Why?  Because no one (read: your father) gave you a helping hand, so now all of society should suffer the same fate. Right?   Fuck the handicapped. Fuck the poor and downtrodden.  And a special fuck you to the blacks, Jews and anyone else who steps in whitey's way, because no one ever gives poor whitey a helping hand. Right? Sound familiar?  What a miserable place you inhabit, all for the sake of that hurting adolescent still crying for fatherly care.

Call me crazy, but when I see someone in a wheelchair, my inclination is to help.  Your inclination is to think how they're parasitical on the system. Certainly the world would be better if we didn't have to support all the poor and handicapped, right?  Wrong.  The world would be better if we didn't have selfish, narcissistic, psychologically wounded individuals like yourself who look at humans like they're math equations and dollar signs.  In that sense, you're just like the Wall Street "Jews" whom you unfairly attack daily.

The artificial black middle class?  Of course you'd say that - any brainwashed klansman would.  What about the artificial white middle class?  Certainly you must know what I'm talking about: the McFamily with their $30k oversized SUV with a $40K lien, and their $200k house with a $300k mortgage. Why do you focus on the 12% blacks when the other 88% is right in front of your face?  Because YOU avoid reality, despite your proclamations that everyone else does.       

Iceland?  First I thought you were just psychologically impaired, but it seems you may be an idiot, as well.  Do you know the GDP and population of Iceland?  Attempting to superimpose the successes and failures of Iceland onto the USA is a bit like being the mayor of Wasilla and then running for President. Iceland is totally out of scale and irrelevant to the dynamics of our $14T economy and >$100T entitlements. You're losing your wizard status, BRO. 

One of the benefits of being human is the joy of being humane, especially to those who need it.  You should look into it.  Maybe it'll calm the crying from within. 

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi 

Tyler, sorry this is so personal.  But if you allow for him to spew his racism and bigotry all over this board, you should certainly allow for an equally matched response. 






Tue, 11/29/2011 - 04:30 | 1924479 vato poco
vato poco's picture

Max, I'm no fan of Trav, nor do I dislike him. The guy calls it as he sees it. Agree or disagree as you will. But *your* response to his post, Max, tells us a hell of a lot more about you than all of the insights you so laughably claim to 'glean from his posts' put together. You don't like "his racism and bigotry", but - fearing you're not up to the task, intellectually - rather than engage him on those topics, you instead choose the chickenshit route: you psychoanalyze him. At a safe distance, of course.

And guess what!! The results of your 'learned analysis' is....the guy you disagree with but dare not debate is.......CRAZY!! And avoids reality! And has daddy issues, to boot!! You're pathetic, Max. Your post reminded me of Hannibal Lector's "cure" of poor misguided Clarice, (who *also* had daddy issues! SEE? this shit is everywhere!)  only without any actual insight, intelligence, humor, or style. That's *not* a compliment, BTW. Your cowardly reluctance to engage him on actual issues, along with your snide entirely predictable liberalism, (you remember: the assholish little jibe at the "mayor of Wasilla"?)(and how, pray tell, does being a "community organizer" qualify one to be prez? care to elucidate on that?), mark you as what you undoubtedly are: a useless, parasitical, psuedointellectual educator/bureaucrat. Marching in lockstep with your 'civis mundi' ideological comrades, all mindlessly doing as teacher instructed you so long ago: taking identical paths to a safe and committee-approved nonconformity. Do us all a favor and go eat a shit sandwich. Jerkoff.

Oh: also, you're crazy.

Tyler: sorry for being so personal. but if you allow him to spew his pantywaist bullshit all over the board, a matched response seemed in order.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 04:56 | 1924517 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I have daddy issues.  I can't get my sugar daddy Benlloyd Bernankfein to pay for my shopping, apartment and car anymore because times are tough for Wall St. types.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 09:19 | 1924834 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Max post makes me say Ah Ha, so that's it. But yours? I think you're mad because remark on Sarah Palin got your goat. LOL. Your post is ridiculous. You criticize for insight, intelligence, which he obviously has, but you? "eat shit sandwich" That's shows a real big wit. LOL.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 18:10 | 1927672 prole
prole's picture

I am sorry Tyler, for being so eloquent and subtle with my "matched response." To other board members I am sorry you are just not as brilliant as I am, nor are your responses "matched."

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 11:39 | 1925404 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture




First, your shrug of the shoulders, indifferent attitude toward racism and bigotry is sickening.  Given that you're a pro-Palin, Tea Baggin' fool, it's not surprising.  You've got all the pre-packaged, Glenn Beck-approved lingo at your finger tips, don't you? Your post is riddled with it.    

Secondly, I've repeatedly called him out on many, many issues, so don't try to tell me that I have a "cowardly reluctance to engage him" or that I dare not debate him.  Fuck you. "Engaging" racist pigs is not easy, because the conversation invariably goes straight into the ditch.  Have you ever tried to convert a klansman?  Even still, I point to the lunacy of the "fake black middle class" which he posted above, and I've made several past efforts to call him out.... FRE, FNM, the post office, etc.  Outside of racial issues, yesterday I called him out on his claim that US debt was "unpayable." The day before, I argued with him about peak oil. The fact that you've got your head stuck squarely up your ass is no defense for not knowing what goes on in this forum.  I, more than anyone, argue with him constantly on every issue imaginable.  

Your garbage about marching in "lockstep with ideological comrades" is fucking stupid. You're just making shit up and using it to crutch your hollow position. 

Max Fischer, Fuck You.  





Tue, 11/29/2011 - 11:41 | 1925576 vato poco
vato poco's picture

Now, Max, see....a hysterical overreaction to mild criticism ain't exactly "civis mundi"-ish, is it? Why are you so filled with hate, Max? So threatened by anyone who would dare call you out on your - sadly - childish worldview? Was Mommy just a tad too harsh with her potty training? A mite too....brusque?  Is that why you have such a terror of the former mayor of Wasilla, and presumably by extension *all* strong women?? Did Mommy teach you that Mr. Wiggles was unclean and nasty, and you should therefore always do - and think! - exactly as Mommy (or her Godlike surrogate, "Teacher") instructs you to??

(shakes head sadly) Max, Max, Max. You need to learn to stop projecting your laughable infantile fears onto those "bad, mean men" you see and read, and learn to UNhate.

Wow, Max, this is FUN!! It's FUN to psychoanalyze people you don't like, rather than argue like a grownup. Wouldn't you say? Wouldn't Mommy approve?

Vato Poco, and the rest of the "mundi" can eat a shit sandwich right along with Max and his ilk

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 11:48 | 1925626 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Tea Baggin? Ruin.

Even though DICK's TEAPARTY stinks, this characterization makes left sink lower than than even false perception of teaparty. If you want point of view taken seriously stop using.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 14:23 | 1926389 trav7777
trav7777's picture

All you can do is cry racist.  You are a filthy piece of trash, a belly crawler full of self-hate.  So go die.

Your position on every topic is wrong, and you are a belligerent fool. 

Don't flatter yourself by calling the stupid shit you write "an argument."  It's not.  It's tripe.  Same old "YOUR A RAYCISS!!!!!1" shit.

My statement yesterday wasn't about the US DEBT, you fucking idiot.  You haven't even figured out yet what I'm saying before you pop off with some stupid nonsequitur.

The black middle class is artificial.  It is propped up with overrepresentation in government largess that is unsustainable.  FACT.

If you want to DEBATE, idiot, try it...I fucking TRIPLE dare you.  You won't.  You'll cry RAYCISSSSS

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 15:25 | 1926780 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture



Your position that the black middle class is being artificially supported through government jobs is PURE LUNACY.  PURE FUCKING RETARDED LUNACY! Once again, you're taking statistics and coloring them through a looking glass of your white supremacy ideologies in order to pump out "facts" that fit your agenda.    

If this is your position, you could argue the EXACT same thing about YOUNG PEOPLE!  You could argue that the military is purposely too large so that young adults can have a "job."  Same dumb logic applies.  Or you could say that government, as a whole, is purposely bloated to prop up the fledgling WHITE middle class.  After all, most government employees are white.  Same logic, BOZO.  The Forest Service is overrepresented, so obviously the government is trying to prop up employment figures in areas near forests.  If you hated forest workers as much as you hate blacks, you could spin it that way.  WTF!!  This is your fucking dumb logic!

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi


Tue, 11/29/2011 - 07:45 | 1924632 Potemkin Villag...
Potemkin Village Idiot's picture

Attempting to superimpose the successes and failures of Iceland onto the USA is a bit like being the mayor of Wasilla and then running for President

Yeah... when it comes to 'scale', probably what's needed is a good community organizer, a Super-Committee, & a few czars...

America... Fuck yea!

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 09:21 | 1924837 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

I didn't vote Obama, but at least he knows history.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 09:38 | 1924897 DeltaDawn
DeltaDawn's picture

Putin could fix us!

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 09:59 | 1924857 Kinskian
Kinskian's picture


 Fuck the handicapped. Fuck the poor and downtrodden.  And a special fuck you to the blacks, Jews and anyone else who steps in whitey's way, because no one ever gives poor whitey a helping hand. Right? Sound familiar?  What a miserable place you inhabit, all for the sake of that hurting adolescent still crying for fatherly care.


Wow, you sound wounded too. So which is it...are you black, crippled or Jewish? Is that you Charles Krauthammer?


Tue, 11/29/2011 - 10:36 | 1925198 trav7777
trav7777's picture

I just have to laugh out loud at this shit.  Armchair psychoanalysis?  HAHAHAHAHAHA.

Your inclination is to "help"?  LOL.  You are dumb; I get that.  You see a stray dog and you feed it.  Then 2 stray dogs come.  Then 4.  And eventually, you are overrun.  Morons are like that.  Bleeding heart idiots.

The world is not social darwinism, neither are any of these strawmen you raised up to rampage through reflective of a point I made at any time.

Help jews?  They need help?  The richest ethnic group on the planet?  Needs a helping hand?  You are so unbelievably mindfucked as to defy belief.  You don't know what humane IS, you're just a chimp.

You actually think whites are 88% of the country, that there are TWO races?  Jeezus, get your head out of your ass.  And stop crawling on your belly, you stupid mudshark goy

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 12:14 | 1925764 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture



Holy FUCK, you're delusional. There's not ONE THING in your response that has any relevance to what I said.  You're just making shit up, responding to yourself, and thinking you've somehow responded to me.  If you were a defense lawyer, you'd be laughed out of court.  

First of all, I never said whites comprise 88%.  I said "other," as in non-black.  

Secondly, I never said "the world is social darwinism."  I said YOUR world is.... as in, your ideology.  Big difference. 

Third, I never said we should help the Jews.

What the FUCK is wrong with you?  Are you incapable of reading comprehension?

Your stray dog analogy is bullshit.  It's very fitting that you'd think of the poor and downtrodden as stray dogs, but bullshit nonetheless.  That's the difference between you and me.  You see the needy as stray dogs who should be kicked to the curb.  I see humans and the need for compassion.  I also happen to see a man filled with hatred because his father treated him like a stray dog.  Isn't strange how karma works?  ... sometimes in reverse.  LOL at YOU.

Your entire response is a hollow sham.  It's nothing.  A strawman.  You're pointing out manufactured nonsense to avoid the very pointed issues which you can't defend.  You're like a BAD defense lawyer, trying to divert the entire conversation because you don't have a single valid point to make. Better to make shit up than face reality.  Right?  You're guilty of your own accusations, PUNK.  Go find your father and tell him how he FUCKED you up.  Bad. 

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi


Tue, 11/29/2011 - 14:30 | 1926425 trav7777
trav7777's picture

MY world is not social darwinism.  YOU claimed it was. You post NOTHING but strawmen and nonsensical psychoanalysis that ISN'T EVEN CORRECT.  I sit over here LAUGHING at you.  How do you even know what I said is true?  How do you even know what I MEANT?  You have absolutely no fucking clue about anything.

You comingled, jews, blacks, and all the downtrodden in ONE FUCKING SENTENCE.  Can you not keep track of the stupid shit you say from minute to minute?

My stray dog analogy is SPOT ON.  As is my estimation of you as chimp-like.

The rest of the idiotic shit you wrote isn't worth commenting on.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 15:06 | 1926669 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture



You're right.  I omitted something.  

You're world is not pure social darwinism.  It's social darwinism as viewed by a white supremacist.  Help your brothers.... treat everyone else like stray dogs.  

Max Fischer

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:31 | 1924355 Rogue Trooper
Rogue Trooper's picture

Like it or not Trav is just saying what people do not want to hear (even on this site).  I agree with RP that the gold standard is a better mechanism that the current fiat culsterfu*k.  Few here would disagree with this - even Trav I suspect.  However, oil will run out, or become so expensive vs demand, that the point will becomes mute.  By not wasting resource on the items Trav mentioned, combined with allowing the free market to test technology to develop some sound alternative, perhaps future demand could be satisfied. In the end the market would actually decide these things and balance would be found.  I do not think the answer will come from the Department of Energy (!).

I agree with Trav in the sense that we collective pay and fund all that PC waste that modern society has become.

... let it all burn and let's see what rises.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 05:02 | 1924523 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

That reasoning is ridiculous.  Gold was money before cars, gasoline and electricity.  Gold is money now.  Fuck oil; I'm going bareback on my horse named Silver.


Oh and incidentally people can use veggie oil and gasifiers and coal and natural gas and solar and wind and wave or power appliances by riding a bike.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 07:58 | 1924643 Potemkin Villag...
Potemkin Village Idiot's picture

Like it or not Trav is just saying what people do not want to hear (even on this site).  

See... That's the part that some people see, & others like MF don't...

For example, I'm not reading "FUCK YOU to the handicapped"... I'm reading that as a society we've spent unfathomable amounts of future dollars to address things that in many cases cases could be helped along on an individual basis by helping hands...

It seems MF would prefer to see the wealth of future generations deployed in this fashion... I'm still the type that if I'm riding the bus & an old lady gets on, I give up my seat... But it would piss me off to no end to see special sections in busses with signs on them saying SEAT RESERVED for 60+ old ladies (with a fine posted for failure to comply)...

I'm sure MF stops at every single bum he sees on the street and invites him into Starbucks for a hot cup of coffee... He's waiting... JUST WAITING for that candidate to come along who will address that issue by law...



Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:33 | 1924363 hunglow
hunglow's picture

I have granite counter tops.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 08:04 | 1924650 Potemkin Villag...
Potemkin Village Idiot's picture

Just 'selling' a house recently...

The joke is (& this is really not a JOKE, it's effin' true)... Is that the ONLY people who can afford the house, in the area, work for the government...

- agencies

- teacdhers

- gov contractors

- military elite, etc.

My JOKE recently (in bring the place 'up to standards' for these FINICKY consumers), is that I'm going to have to put granite countertops in the garage...


Tue, 11/29/2011 - 12:49 | 1925898 vato poco
vato poco's picture

Aren't those things just GREAT?? I was a proud Formica man, just as my daddy and his daddy were before me. Quiet, understated elegance, and practical, too! Durable, a *breeze* to clean, a veritable *plethora* of colors to choose from...what more could a man ask for? But then one day, when I was pumping out the septic tank in a rich man's house, I seen me some granite counters thoo the window, and it was like them scales done fell from mah EYES!! So I saved up and got me some, and lemme tell you: they **really** perk up the ol' double-wide, and they are absolute babe MAGNETS!

Only in America, people. Only in America. Next stop: gold ownership. Physical, too! None of that 'paper' crapola for THIS granite countertop owner! Nuh-UH!!

I reckon that attitude right there will put me ahead of about 95% of all the allegedly sophisticated intellectuals scorning the barbaric relic. Perhaps after the crash, if I'm feeling flush, I'll hire me a college professor to pump out *MY* septic tank. Won't be too much longer now, I reckon. Look for the video on youtube soon.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:55 | 1924387 i-dog
i-dog's picture

Wow ... I never thought that the truth would hurt them so much, Trav! It seems that de'Nile is flooding!

I don't agree with your racism, but I do agree that new ethnic groups arriving into any culture need to make and pay their own way in and be self-sufficient.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 04:49 | 1924502 wisefool
wisefool's picture

I dont agree with his racism or his antimosity for the ADA. But truth be told, Ron Paul would likely fund handicap ramps in public places before he would ever let a dime of funding for ANYTHING to ANY state government that was setting up conflicting tax code regarding "civil unions" to be able to file joint income tax. We are currently at 28/50.

Ron Paul would say "Executive order: every one files indiviually" I just saved the nation and states millions in regulation writing, lawyers ironically playing grab ass in the locker rooms, and somebody commiting suicide because they thought they were going to be able to marry their dog.

... so I dont mind putting some craftsmen to work ensuring exisiting citizens can get physical access to existing physical tax payer resources. The meta-physical stuff and how you are taxed on it is between you, your partners (bunga bunga) and your employer and your ethos/god.

Ron Paul 2012.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 10:04 | 1924901 i-dog
i-dog's picture

The central state has no business making ANY laws that determine or influence the lifestyles of individual citizens!! The US Constitution addresses this, but Washington, DC has totally ignored it. The tax code is supposed to apply equally to all citizens - bankers and bakers, gays and straights, single or married.

The bizarre result is that citizens of New York and Florida are voting on restricting the lifestyles and choices of citizens in California! On the basis of proximity, and therefore relevant interest, this is the equivalent of the people of Ireland voting in the NWO for rules governing the lifestyles of people in Iran and Afghanistan! FFS!!

As far as I'm concerned, people within a single parish, or maybe a city precinct, might be able to determine a charter of acceptable lifestyle choices for those living around them, but only by mutual consent - whether living arrangements, community religious standards, speed limits or styles of housing allowed. Something akin to a condo restrictive covenant. Anyone who didn't like those restrictions could move to an adjacent area, or futher afield. Let districts compete for residents!

But for the people of New York City to be voting on such matters for the people of Albany or Rochester or Seattle, or vice versa, is just ludicrous!!

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 10:51 | 1925278 trav7777
trav7777's picture

both you and the other guy - WHAT racism?

I have stated FACTS.  If you believe FACTS to be racism then you are both so PC mindfucked as to be incapable of making rational decisions.  If you cannot deal with FACTS then you have a problem.

You need to free your mind of this racism shit and your pavlovian responses to FACTS.  The powers that you rail against have conditioned you to accept certain things as axiomatic which are PROVABLY FALSE.

Part of the lilly unicorn worldview sold to you are the notions which you cling to about race.  They are simply untrue.  No amount of strenuous wishing will make the facts go away.  Until you let go of what you wish were true and accept what IS TRUE you simply cannot make productive comment or lend productive assistance to an effort to improve anything.

This is precisely why I say things nobody wants to hear...I speak the truth.  If the "free minds" at ZH cannot accept the truth, what the fuck hope is there?

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 13:40 | 1926171 i-dog
i-dog's picture

You are a fucking racist! ... A typical collectivist who judges each individual as just part of a collective. Sheeesh....

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 14:32 | 1926441 trav7777
trav7777's picture

How in the FUCK could you make such a statement?  YOU DON'T KNOW ME.

I have 2 black girlfriends for fuck's sake, wtf are you babbling about.  AT NO POINT have I EVER judged an individual as part of a collective; you made that shit up.

Free your mind and wake the fuck up.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 15:03 | 1926627 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture



You're such a fucking liar.  You repeatedly call others "mudsharks."  Are you trying to tell us YOU'RE the mudshark?  

Given the magnitude of your racism and the vulgar, despicable manner in which you express it, if you actually have two black girlfriends then you are deeply, deeply fucked in the head.  Are they Jews, too?

I suspect though, you don't. You're just having to resort to laughable lies to back-peddle from your stupidity. 

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi


Tue, 11/29/2011 - 14:54 | 1926590 Max Fischer
Max Fischer's picture



You absolutely DO NOT speak the truth, you delusional freak. 

When you imply that the US Postal Service failed because of diversity mandates...

When you imply that FRE/FNM also failed because of diversity mandates....

When you imply that blacks are less intelligent because of the radius of their cranium....

When you imply that debtmoney was created by Jews to extract a vig.....

When you say that only blacks loot......

When you imply that the black middle class is fake and manufactured....

Etc. Etc. Etc...

......  you are demonstrably LYING!  These are NOT facts; these are delusional opinions by a white-clothed klansman. Your assertions are nothing more than a pathetic attempt by a white supremacist to justify his racist, bigoted world view.  You are NOT extracting facts and then creating a world view or ideology from it.  You're doing the reverse... you're starting with a racist agenda, and then coloring the truth so that your original ideology remains intact - in your own diseased mind, anyway. You're no different than a fundamentalist Christian who takes the TRUTH of the fossil record and carves it to pieces so that his Creationist ideology remains unquestioned.  ALL of your so-called facts have been thoroughly filtered through your looking glass of racist demographics, and that is anything but truthful.  For a man who holds the truth - the cold, rigid, objective, scientific truth - above everything, you really are a fantastic case study in cognitive dissonance.  

Max Fischer, Civis Mundi




Tue, 11/29/2011 - 08:25 | 1924707 Motley Fool
Motley Fool's picture

"Gold can't make more oil come out either." lol

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 16:42 | 1927218 nuinut
nuinut's picture

What does he think has kept more oil coming out since 1971?

Paper??? roflmao

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 10:15 | 1925067 BigJim
BigJim's picture

...And in the context of that discussion, we will have to collectively decide as a society whether it is WORTH IT to us to have an artificial black middle class, to have intergenerational transfer payments, to have handicap spaces out the yinyang and to modify entire 100-year old subway systems to accommodate the occasional wheelchair, whether vast war machines are beneficial, whether the police state we've erected serves us at all, how much power we expect to use, if having every idiot kid "go to college" to waste 4 years studying drunkenness and promiscuity is good societal policy.

All those things are products of overbearing government. Ron Paul has consistently spoken (and voted) against the government interfering with private business, the economy, and people's personal choices (like recreational drugs) so, yes, he has implicitly been talking about exactly those issues.

Or will you only vote for him if he turns yellow, starts giving everyone the finger, and develops peak-oil monomania?

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 00:50 | 1924113 Shocker
Shocker's picture

I agree, he has always stuck to what he says/believes in. Even if you don't like all his policies/views,  you definately can respect him for always following through.

At this point, we need a new direction and someone that wants to change stuff.

Now is the tme, there are some serious problems and drastic solutions are need.


Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:19 | 1924228 7point62
7point62's picture

I think I'd rather take my chances with someone who I may disagree with on some things, but I trust will do what he believes is right, rather than someone who just says what will get him elected and then just does whatever seems politically beneficial when in office.

Obviously, we have no real leadership.  We can't trust our elected officials to do what is necessary.  There just aren't enough of them that get it.  We can't trust the media to report the facts, so the average Joe doesn't get it.  Where do we go from here?  We have to get honest and intelligent people back in power.  We need people who understand the economic problems and have the ability and leadership to fix them.

IMHO, Dr. Paul is the only candidate that meets those standards.  The nut you can trust.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 04:54 | 1924514 MolotovCockhead
MolotovCockhead's picture

but he is an absolutist. not flexible


"flexible" bending whichever way the wind is blowing? Like bending backward to satisfy Wall Street's demand?

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 08:58 | 1924770 par4
par4's picture

"I'm a lefty mostly with somne(sic) libertarian and fascist tendencies" ????? You are totally confused. I strongly suggest you study political philosophies more diligently.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 09:36 | 1924889 IAmNotMark
IAmNotMark's picture

You're right.  Newt is a much more flexible scumbag cheating liar, Herman is a lying flexible lying cheat,  Mitt is a flexible lying weasel, Barak is a flexible clueless puppet, and Hilary is a flexible demon from hell. 

They'd all be better choices than Dr. Paul because...they're flexible.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 20:19 | 1928044 akak
akak's picture

They should all just stop the pretense already of being nominally members of two different parties, and finally take the logical step of merging into ..... The Gumby Party!

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 00:46 | 1924106 phyuckyiu
phyuckyiu's picture

Definitely the biggest threat to enter the election system. Can't we just James Traficant his ass?

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:42 | 1924254 Big Slick
Big Slick's picture

If you believe things are as dire as a lot of the rhetoric on ZH (and I do) then the only choice is Ron Paul.

I'm pretty tuned in politically... and probably more conservative than most.  I used to think RP was a crackpot.  He didn't even know that Iran has a Navy.

HOWEVER, everything being discussed by BOTH sides, be it GOP candidate or Obama, is ALL window dressing to the monumental monetary and fiscal problem that looms in our credit and fiat currency crisis.

Unemployment, taxes, abortion issue, education, defense, economy, energy ... ALL IMPORTANT ... BUT ALL INCONSEQUENTIAL when compared to the looming LOST DECADE COMING unless we do something.

RP is the only guy talking about this problem!

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 02:12 | 1924313 jeff montanye
jeff montanye's picture

the monetary and fiscal problem is very powerfully influenced by unemployment, taxes, defense and (good god!) the "economy".  on many of these points paul is right and no one else is even close.  

we can't meaningfully reduce spending without addressing the endless "wars" (on islamic countries, on drugs, on "global terrorism" -- read civil liberties and government transparency) and unemployment (which is significantly the result of zombie banks with unpurged toxic assets -- ask japan for the last twenty years).

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 00:48 | 1924111 Paul Bogdanich
Paul Bogdanich's picture

You goldbugs might remember last week in these pages where the site was touting how Russia "added" X tones of gold.  Remember that?  What they didn't say is that zero ounces, zip, zilch, nada, goose egg were purchased.  All that gold was probably 15 days production and they hid the rest.  They still have it though.  Russia is absolutely lousy with alluvial gold.  Tens of billions of tones of ore that all runs at least .02.  Some a lot higher.  They could produce over a million ounces a month if they wanted to and didn't want to keep it on the QT so as not to alarm the gold bugs.

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 00:53 | 1924121 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

So what?

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 00:57 | 1924130 Paul Bogdanich
Paul Bogdanich's picture

So what?  Didn't pass arithmetic class I see.  A million ounces a month is $1.7 Bn a month.  Minimum.  And you want to make gold money?  That insane.  Talk about a printing press. 

Tue, 11/29/2011 - 01:02 | 1924139 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

You think that mining a finite resource is the same as printing monopoly paper?

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