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Ron Paul Exposes The Deficit "Plan" Lies: "Cuts Are Illusory, Not From Current Amounts Spent But From Projected Spending Increases"

Tyler Durden's picture


Ron Paul slams it right out of the ballpark.

When a Cut is Not a Cut

One might think that the recent drama over the debt ceiling involves one side wanting to increase or maintain spending with the other side wanting to drastically cut spending, but that is far from the truth.  In spite of the rhetoric being thrown around, the real debate is over how much government spending will increase. 

No plan under serious consideration cuts spending in the way you and I think about it.  Instead, the "cuts" being discussed are illusory, and are not cuts from current amounts being spent, but cuts in projected spending increases.  This is akin to a family "saving" $100,000 in expenses by deciding not to buy a Lamborghini, and instead getting a fully loaded Mercedes, when really their budget dictates that they need to stick with their perfectly serviceable Honda.  But this is the type of math Washington uses to mask the incriminating truth about their unrepentant plundering of the American people.

The truth is that frightening rhetoric about default and full faith and credit of the United States is being carelessly thrown around to ram through a bigger budget than ever, in spite of stagnant revenues.  If your family's income did not change year over year, would it be wise financial management to accelerate spending so you would feel richer?  That is what our government is doing, with one side merely suggesting a different list of purchases than the other.

In reality, bringing our fiscal house into order is not that complicated or excruciatingly painful at all.  If we simply kept spending at current levels, by their definition of "cuts" that would save nearly $400 billion in the next few years, versus the $25 billion the Budget Control Act claims to "cut".  It would only take us 5 years to "cut" $1 trillion, in Washington math, just by holding the line on spending.  That is hardly austere or catastrophic.

A balanced budget is similarly simple and within reach if Washington had just a tiny amount of fiscal common sense.  Our revenues currently stand at approximately $2.2 trillion a year and are likely to remain stagnant as the recession continues.  Our outlays are $3.7 trillion and projected to grow every year.  Yet we only have to go back to 2004 for federal outlays of $2.2 trillion, and the government was far from small that year.  If we simply returned to that year's spending levels, which would hardly be austere, we would have a balanced budget right now.  If we held the line on spending, and the economy actually did grow as estimated, the budget would balance on its own by 2015 with no cuts whatsoever.

We pay 35 percent more for our military today than we did 10 years ago, for the exact same capabilities.  The same could be said for the rest of the government.  Why has our budget doubled in 10 years?  This country doesn't have double the population, or double the land area, or double anything that would require the federal government to grow by such an obscene amount.  

In Washington terms, a simple freeze in spending would be a much bigger "cut" than any plan being discussed.  If politicians simply cannot bear to implement actual cuts to actual spending, just freezing the budget would give the economy the best chance to catch its breath, recover and grow.


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Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:36 | 1513123 anynonmous
anynonmous's picture


say it ain't so Barack, Boener, Reid & McConnell, say it ain't so

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:38 | 1513143 Mike2756
Mike2756's picture

Wow, like they never pulled this before. I suppose there's a surplus in there if they just look hard enough.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:06 | 1513295 Herd Redirectio...
Herd Redirection Committee's picture

You tell 'em, Ron!  Yep, it is amazing what they achieve just through accounting gimmicks and definition changes (SS cuts are due to change in definition) alone!

America has a leadership vaccuum, and honestly, I don't know if it will be resolved with anything short of complete disintegration.  Sometimes you look around and the return to Feudalism is just getting closer and closer.

Check out the latest from the Capital Research Institute "The Sad Truth Regarding America's Deficit Reduction":

"Although Congress has not yet passed the ‘debt deal’ it certainly has all the looks of a done deal about it.  So lets cut to the chase.  America has a debt problem.  This year America spent $1.5 trillion more than it collected in revenues.  That’s $1500 billion.  This year alone.  America’s total debt, as we have all had drilled into us these last few days, is currently about $14 trillion dollars.  So what did Congress decide the solution to this problem should be?   On the one hand they kicked and screamed at each other, like siblings fighting over who gets the remote control.  But on the other hand, it is clear in hindsight the politicians have no appreciation for how serious the problems actually are (and they will only get worse, until they are seriously addressed).   The plan before them today allows for the debt ceiling to be raised (as if the debt ceiling is the problem, not the debt) and deficits to be reduced.  Yes, you read that right, deficits will not be eliminated, they will be reduced.

So that means…. The total National Debt will continue to increase. So the same group of people who vote wage increases for themselves have now decided that Social Security should be calculated in a new way.  A new way that shortchanges SS recipients, and doesn’t accurately track inflation, but hey, the government will save money.

The real kicker is in the spending cuts.  Very little, if any, has to occur straight away.  Almost all the cuts are ‘yet to be determined’ and occur at some point in the future..."

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 19:02 | 1514731 Buck Johnson
Buck Johnson's picture

Spot on, spot on.  When this whole game comes to an end, it will destroy peoples belief in the govt. for a long time.  Also I agree with you also about Feudilism, I see it coming and it will be a nasty little surprise for alot of us.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:07 | 1513302 wanklord
wanklord's picture

By appealing to tons of bullshit about the Constitution and other patriotic crap, Congressman Ron Paul is able to seduce his brute and ignorant constituency while doing nothing in Congress (a clever way to make easy money). Besides that, Americans are a bunch of stupid animals easy to manipulate and subdue. The sooner the US economy collapses the better, so these brutes will finally learn NOT to live beyond their means.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:23 | 1513382 The Third Man
The Third Man's picture

Stick to wanking. You seem to be pretty good at that.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:25 | 1513396 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Speaking of ignorant, could you at least expand your vocabulary a bit? A little variety can go a long ways toward furthering your trolling effectively. Otherwise, you're going to fail to attract the arrow-clickers and simply vanish in obscurity.

If nothing else, at least have the decency to find other sources to cut and paste from.


Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:41 | 1513493 pupton
pupton's picture

A down arrow is just not rewarding enough....FUCK YOU Wanker...Ahh, that's a little better.


Mon, 08/01/2011 - 14:22 | 1513653 sgorem
sgorem's picture

I don't usually respond to such jibberish bullshit, BUT not today. You fucking dildo-headed dipshit! YOU and your like minded minion morons are the reason WE, the "enlightened patriots", are fighting in one way or another, to take back OUR country. YOU are just a pile of shit in the middle of the road to avoid. RON PAUL for PRESIDENT! He may not be perfect, but he's a better Man than what the fuck WE'VE got now.......asshole....................

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 14:40 | 1513753 Birddog
Birddog's picture

Wanker, your still sulking that John Mccain lost...get over it.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 15:14 | 1513929 Bay Area Guy
Bay Area Guy's picture

Wanklord, it seems to me you're criticizing Mr. Paul on one hand by saying he doesn't accomplish anything, but then you're complaining that Americans should finally learn not to live beyond their means.  By pointing out that the cuts being proposed are, in a lot of cases, illusory, isn't Mr. Paul trying to educate the very public you are maligning?  There are certainly some things that Mr. Paul stands for which I do not agree, but, by and large, on economic matters, he seems to very much incorporate my personal philosophy.  Of course, since I haev some level of agreement with him, he'll never be elected to the White House.  However, unless political leaders like Mr. Paul continue to be voices of sanity in terms of what's going on, the "brutes" will only hear what the likes of MSNBC and Fox News want them to hear.

Also, what's wrong with appealing to the Constitution and being patriotic?  Last I read, the elites haven't shredded the last vestiges of the Constitution (yet), so it is still the law of the land.

I do think you are right in that my countrymen are, for the most part, easy to manipulate.  The vast majority are more interested in Jersey Shore or American Idol then they are in the economic future of the nation.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 16:23 | 1514262 FEDbuster
FEDbuster's picture

Wanklord, I understand and agree with most of what you are saying.  It's really too late for anyone to do anything other than delay the collapse.  I will vote for Ron Paul as always in the primary (I won't send him any $$), and he will lose.  Then he will retire (already announced that).  He fought like Don Quixote during his long political career, talking a lot and accomplished little.  Our Country has never been run by politicians or the people, TPTB will decide our fate after extracting as much wealth as they can.  I am saddened that my teenage boys will have to live in Mexico North rather than the USA (illegals here in AZ are moving back to Mexico for a better life).  It sure sucks.

Hasten the Collapse, OBAMA 2012

Tue, 08/02/2011 - 04:51 | 1516006 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Would donating around $15 to Ron Paul's campaign really bust your budget?

Money talks, bullsh!t walks!

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:44 | 1513182 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Ron Paul's criticism has been circulated widely by Paul Ryan for weeks now.  The fraudulent way the "cuts" are calculated has always been in the Reid bill from the very beginning.  The rating agencies will ignore it.  BTFD, even now. 

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:55 | 1513232 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Intraday low of 1274.73 has been set on S&P.  Rally into the close.  For those of us lucky enough to see the low and buy the SPY 127 calls at 1275, $$$ into the close.  Kleptocracy 1 : Democracy 0.

ZH is correct in its analysis, but one must trade the market's cynical inversion of ZH's analysis.  In its own way, market is even more negative than ZH. 

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:00 | 1513258 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

1:00 PM scorecard.

S&P -1.07%

Silver -.70%

AAPL + 1.12%

Momo high P/E net.bubble stocks like TZOO + 3.88%

Kleptocracy 1: Democracy 0

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:23 | 1513376 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

1:22 pm.

Silver -1.57%  Uh oh.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:33 | 1513444 fuu
fuu's picture

Are you the new Robo? His posts are at least funny.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 14:02 | 1513560 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

I want to see it bounce off of support at $38.50.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:56 | 1513236 anynonmous
anynonmous's picture

meanwhile Ryan (Scott Brown in drag) is saying the Obama plan will pass

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:03 | 1513276 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

Yup, gonna pass.  Even a fierce critic like Ryan confirms it.  For better or worse.  And the good thing is: rinse and repeat right before Thanksgiving on a nice low-volume, high-algo day when the super committee has its deadline. 

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:56 | 1513235 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture



Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:03 | 1513277 SweetAdeline
SweetAdeline's picture

I lol'd.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:36 | 1513134 Haole
Haole's picture

Walmart is rolling back the prices of Vaseline and blindfolds...

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:28 | 1513415 docj
docj's picture

Just lie-back and think of England.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 17:09 | 1514410 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Thank God government subsidies for the ball gags aren't scheduled to be cut until 2018.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:38 | 1513141 user2011
user2011's picture

All I want to know is how much raise these lawmakers are going to get this year !!    I know the whole proposal thing is dog and pony show anyway.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:39 | 1513145 dick cheneys ghost
dick cheneys ghost's picture

Tom Coburn said the same thing on the senate floor........The Bankers are still in charge.........put them all in GITMO.........

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:39 | 1513150 johnconnor
johnconnor's picture

Ron Paul for president, too bad the bankster lobby, the insdustrial military complex and those stupid americans who believe in flying unicorns and being positive won't give this man a chance...

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:47 | 1513198 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Surely we ZHers aren't the only ones with any sense in this country...oh wait, American Idol is a top show and everyone actually cared about Casey Anthony and Amy Winehouse. Shit! Can we all move to Texas and just secede? Maybe Alaska??? Panama? Any other suggestions?

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:52 | 1513225 narapoiddyslexia
narapoiddyslexia's picture

How about a peaceful Million Gun March on Washington, as an expression of our 2nd Amendment rights? And of the fact that we are really pissed at those assholes. All of 'em.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:59 | 1513256 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Are you kidding?  Rachael Maddows' head would explode.  Nope, too messy.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 14:05 | 1513572 Commander Cody
Commander Cody's picture

I liked your other avatar better.  Obama is god.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 14:05 | 1513576 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

Hmm, you actually introduce yet another incentive to march!

Heck, I'll clean up her mess if it need be.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 14:17 | 1513632 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Rachael Maddows



Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:07 | 1513304 pizzgums
pizzgums's picture

whatever makes you think we want you or anyone else to come to Texas?

please don't.  all these new people come here bringing their bad ideas that didn't work in the places they left behind.  it's like human locusts, producing nothing but always looking for a new place to be fed.

stay where you are and fix that.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:29 | 1513423 DCFusor
DCFusor's picture

 Though I'm not a Texan, but rather living in SW VA -- I share the sentiment in spades.  We country folk are very very sick of having city pollution and bad laws required for bad people pushed on us.  We're sick of exporting our resources and taxes and getting crap in return.  We're sick of concentrating power and "we know what's best for you" statements.  No, you don't even know what's best for the current me, much less all the different places I alone have occupied in life.


Sure, in DC or NYC if you swing your arm, you'll probably hit and hurt someone.  Where I live you're unlikely to, saying the very least.  Why do I have to submit to laws appropriate for you, but not me?  Why do I have to pay the costs for this sick system set up by such people?

Interestingly, I also have the same take (I think) on immigration.  We have mexican illegals up here -- to even find this place to do backbreaking orchard work, they have to be pretty enterprising, and frankly, they are no trouble to us.  But what is sick is when immigrants overflow a place, and as you said, try to re-implement what didn't work where they came from -- which is the very reason they came here, to get away from that.  And the Mexcans aren't the first to be guilty of that one.  Chinatown anyone?  And plenty other examples.

You want to come here and share my dream, well, goddammit, share it, learn the language, the laws, work, pay taxes -- you can't leave some of those out and be OK with me.  If you only came here for the better street corners to sell drugs and shoot one another on - stay home and do it there.  And don't blame me for making a few guns available, I'm not the source of the huge majority of them - they are using arms dealers....not gun stores.  That's only the very small time.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 18:51 | 1514703 Rhodin
Rhodin's picture

And don't blame me for making a few guns available, I'm not the source of the huge majority of them - they are using arms dealers....not gun stores.

The ATF is the major arms supplier to the Mexican drug cartels.  This keeps the "American origin" high when Mexican authorities seize drug cartel weapons, and it helps justify higher ATF budgets.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 16:30 | 1514293 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

HoofHearted @12:47:  Ask Tyler for that terrific Expatriation manual he shared with us last year.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 15:49 | 1513274 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

Ron Paul 'The High Tide 2012'. Spread the word with this great 1-min presentation (Should be easy enough on the sheeple's digestive system)

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:40 | 1513151 The Limerick King
The Limerick King's picture

American greatness has passed

The last thirty years were a blast

But then GREED bought the votes

With its fresh-printed notes

And wealth based on debt doesn`t last

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:01 | 1513154 lieutenantjohnchard
lieutenantjohnchard's picture

of course. only rubes are unaware of the tricks. that's why you only hear about a $1.5 trillion budget deficit because the truth of $5.5 trillion in budget deficits using gaap accounting is quite too much to bear.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:43 | 1513156 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

One green ping for RP from me please.


Mon, 08/01/2011 - 18:51 | 1514704 Founders Keeper
Founders Keeper's picture

One ping only please.


Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:40 | 1513158 papaswamp
papaswamp's picture

Unfortunately no one will listen to Ron Paul except those that already listen to him. At least he gives us insight into congress....something I don't hear others doing.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 16:38 | 1514318 RiverRoad
RiverRoad's picture

papaswamp @12:40:  Those people asleep at the wheel are crashing their cars right about now and waking up in the ER.  Maybe now they'll listen....

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:41 | 1513161 sabra1
sabra1's picture

hey oBLAHma! you will NOT be re-elected! do you understand? i'm canadian, but i will enter the US illegally and vote you out! U R FINISHED PUNK!!!! thank the lord tyler removes all IP addresses! 

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 16:26 | 1514279 DosZap
DosZap's picture


Well that's great, but in case you had not noticed the Congress passed a law making your ISP,in and out logs all to be recorded, along with every CC# you use, Debit card, etc,etc, and sites we visit..........................and are required to retain for one year.

So that means, all your and our info is being stored..INDEFINITELY.

ISP providers automatically store your emails................even before this legislation was passed.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:43 | 1513163 ConfederateH
ConfederateH's picture

These guys lie so often and so smoothly they no longer know what the truth.  In their warped sense of reality they really think this agreement is a "cut".  They are like blind men in a fog bank of lies groping around looking for anything to grab ahold of and maul.  It is truly government by zombies.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:42 | 1513165 lincolnsteffens
lincolnsteffens's picture

"35% more for our military today than we did 10years ago for the same capability"  Is this in inflation adjusted dollars? Probably not. I'd say we are doing pretty well then BECAUSE THE VALUE OF THE DOLLAR HAS PROBABLY SHRUNK AT LEAST THAT MUCH!!!!!

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:42 | 1513168 grid-b-gone
grid-b-gone's picture

Tea Party containment if no real cuts were negotiated. Obama appears to have a mild win with no real cuts to current spending and by not having to go through this again early in 2012. Boehner was looking a little lame last week, but recovered with Bush tax breaks in place and an atta-boy from big oil. We have taken a step back toward a two party system with this deal.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:43 | 1513173 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Our federal government is a stage full of bankster puppets, and we are supposed to be surprised by their singing and dancing?

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:43 | 1513174 bread n circuses
bread n circuses's picture

He uses Italian, German, and Japanese cars in his analogy. 

Ron Paul is clearly un-american and alligned with the axis powers. 


Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:15 | 1513345 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

I noticed that too.. LMAO  ..  Of course, I think Hondas are as much built in the US as any other..

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:43 | 1513176 TSA Thug
TSA Thug's picture

Is this Paul guy a communist? Why knock what our leaders are trying to do? Too many arm chair cornerbacks spoils the soup!

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:44 | 1513179 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Well OK, so Dr. Paul is in the medical field but has never heard that runaway health care costs are the #1 reason for cost escalation.  O....K.....

No one has any fucking guts any more.  Tell the truth sir: Holding a budget constant while health care costs escalate is not a trivial or painless exercise.  It is nothing less than deceitful to suggest otherwise.

I think we need deep, painful cuts in many areas.  But they will be painful.  It is disappointing to see Ron Paul say it is undermines his credibility.

More prescription drugs, please.  Sorry to have to write this comment.  Paul is missing the ball and so is ZH; it's rare but it happens...


Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:52 | 1513193 Version 7
Version 7's picture

Agree. A spending freeze and problems solved? Some maths is missing there. It's the desperation of belief.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:59 | 1513550 WallStreetClass...'s picture

"desperation of belief" is very well put! Don't forget, while pointing another finger into Constitution, which has nothing to do with this calamity anyhow.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 16:56 | 1514366 grok
grok's picture

what?  no no, you misread.  He acknowledged that we are still in recession and probably wouldn't see the growth that they were estimating, but he was giving them the benefit of the doubt -- if we saw the growth, a spending freeze (keep the budget at 3.7trillion outlays) would result in a balanced budget eventually.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:56 | 1513239 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

Total bs.

Ron Paul is the first to acknowledge that welfare has to be cut.

He just sees the potential to cut trillions overseas. That is his priority and he is absolutely right about that.

Do some research on RP please.


Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:13 | 1513336 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

I do plenty of research.  I can also read what is in the actual post, by the actual person being discussed:

"In reality, bringing our fiscal house into order is not that complicated or excruciatingly painful at all."

The above quote is untrue.

You on the other hand made no mention of the substance of my comment and instead discussed other things.  How is that helping?

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:18 | 1513361 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

Your quote:

Well OK, so Dr. Paul is in the medical field but has never heard that runaway health care costs are the #1 reason for cost escalation. O....K.....

My quote (with sources...)

Ron Paul is the first to acknowledge that welfare has to be cut.

Now everybody here can judge who did some research an who didn´t...

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:21 | 1513369 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

Wrong again Jim.. RP has offered many solutions to Health care first and foremost by getting the government out.. Again, it's obvious you will not do the research on RP to see where he atually stands and solutions he provides.

I guess you are right in saying his statement isn't true, if you are a fat-cat banker, in our gun for hire military industrial complex, prison for profit industries, or anyone else sucking off the teet of the taxpayer.. get your head out of your ass..  

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:31 | 1513429 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

If all y'all are saying is that it doesn't matter what he actually writes on a day when a lot more people might be reading, and must be forgiven for missing the ball this particular time, then OK. 

But he still missed it.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:59 | 1513250 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Where in the constitution do you see a power which grants the federal government authority to be in the business of health care?  Perhaps Ron Paul doesn't understand your perspective because it is an unconstitutional one.  It's just a thought.  Painful cuts you say?  Cut all effing federal government welfare, of all types from corporate to individual, and shove the gawd damned thing back into the box it was meant to be kept within.

Then the spending and debt problems would be VERY easy to resolve--at least from MY perspective as someone who doesn't expect a damned thing from my federal government other than what is constitutionally mandated.

Guts?  Read the fucking constitution.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:33 | 1513445 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Right.  So the skittle shitting unicorns make employee costs go down, and then the cuts are easy and painless.

I am on board with that 100%.  That is fine math.  Constitutional math too!

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 14:34 | 1513723 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Not skittle shitting unicorns--free market forces.

But you probably won't read it, as you prefer to roll about in your ignorance like a pig rolls in his own shit.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 15:35 | 1514057 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

Wait, I am having trouble with your simile.  Is it in any way useful or constructive?  Are you?

Tue, 08/02/2011 - 05:15 | 1516021 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Should be easy enough for even you to understand:


Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:36 | 1513465 Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

damn right!

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 14:00 | 1513558 WallStreetClass...'s picture

"wellfare of the people" it says there the last time I read. At least we are reading different versions?

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 14:33 | 1513713 ZeroHour
ZeroHour's picture

"wellfare of the people" (sic) isn't in the Constitution, nor is the corrected spelling: "welfare of the people"


If you are referring to the phrase "promote the general welfare", then you are incorrectly interpretting what the founders wrote.


The definition of "welfare" during the time of the writing of the Constitution was:

1. Exemption from misfortune, sickness, calamity or evil; the enjoyment of health and the common blessings of life; prosperity; happiness; applied to persons.

2. Exemption from any unusual evil or calamity; the enjoyment of peace and prosperity, or the ordinary blessings of society and civil government; applies to states.


"Welfare" today has the common meaning of something (money, food, etc) handed out by the government.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 14:50 | 1513803 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Contemporary use of welfare is synonymous with the dole.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 15:13 | 1513926 bread n circuses
bread n circuses's picture

Not to metion "Promote" does not mean "Provide".

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 15:42 | 1514092 WallStreetClass...'s picture

are you sure of the words meaning "back in the days"? lol

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 15:22 | 1513976 WallStreetClass...'s picture

Oh great! Now we will have a self-appointed class of "interpreters" whose "gifts" include knowing and telling the rest of us dopes what Founding Fathers really meant. May I kiss the ring now?

This is exactly WHY any reference to Constitution is irrelevant, people interpret it any way they want. According to our laws, only the Supreme Court has the final "interpretational" powers.

Btw, I've never been on welfare, and I agree that the program is abused. However, that being said, our neocon ruined economy IS "calamity or evil", so I don't see any issues with government stepping in and handing out foodstamps these days or whatnot. As far as we can afford multiple wars, we can also afford feeding people.

But isn't it fun when someone from another country schools you on YOUR Constitution? From Russia with a chuckle...

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 16:42 | 1514332 faustian bargain
faustian bargain's picture

what schooling, russian? all i see is you asserting that two wrongs make a right.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 18:59 | 1514722 WallStreetClass...'s picture

care to explain?

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 18:15 | 1514600 Manthong
Manthong's picture

Well tovarich, they are not always wrong:

“Russian Prime Minister Vladimir Putin accused the United States Monday of living beyond its means "like a parasite" on the global economy and said dollar dominance was a threat to the financial markets.

"They are living beyond their means and shifting a part of the weight of their problems to the world economy," Putin told the pro-Kremlin youth group Nashi while touring its lakeside summer camp”

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 19:00 | 1514726 WallStreetClass...'s picture

He's onto something here

Tue, 08/02/2011 - 00:56 | 1515774 ZeroHour
ZeroHour's picture

A simple reading of the papers published by the founders would show you in a fairly clear light what they intended this government to be.

"A wise and frugal government, which shall leave men free to regulate their own pursuits of industry and improvement, and shall not take from the mouth of labor the bread it has earned - this is the sum of good government." - Thomas Jefferson

"Dependence begets subservience and venality, suffocates the germ of virtue, and prepares fit tools for the designs of ambition." - Thomas Jefferson

"Experience hath shewn, that even under the best forms of government those entrusted with power have, in time, and by slow operations, perverted it into tyranny." - Thomas Jefferson

"I own that I am not a friend to a very energetic government. It is always oppressive." - Thomas Jefferson

"I predict future happiness for Americans if they can prevent the government from wasting the labors of the people under the pretense of taking care of them." - Thomas Jefferson

"I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than those attending too small a degree of it." - Thomas Jefferson

"It is incumbent on every generation to pay its own debts as it goes. A principle which if acted on would save one-half the wars of the world." - Thomas Jefferson

"My reading of history convinces me that most bad government results from too much government." - Thomas Jefferson

"Never spend your money before you have earned it." - Thomas Jefferson

"The a mere thing of wax in the hands of the judiciary which they may twist and shape into any form they please" - Thomas Jefferson

"I think we have more machinery of government than is necessary, too many parasites living on the labor of the industrious" - Thomas Jefferson

"I believe there are more instances of the abridgement of freedom of the people by gradual and silent encroachments by those in power than by violent and sudden usurpations." - James Madison

"Where an excess of power prevails, property of no sort is duly respected. No man is safe in his opinions, his person, his faculties, or his possessions." - James Madison

"In the general course of human nature, A power over a man's subsistence amounts to a power over his will." - Alexander Hamilton

The government IS the problem.  The government has morphed from the form created by the founders into this overbearing monstrosity that we have today.  I would wager any amount that the founders would agree that this government is NOT what they created.  In fact, they might actually take up arms again to throw off the shackles.

telling the rest of us dopes what Founding Fathers really meant.

To get a feel for what the founders meant, you must read what they wrote on the subject of government. Read the what Jefferson, Hamilton and others wrote, it's really very interesting.  I think it's been shown that they generally believed that too little government is preferable to too much government. 

As far as we can afford multiple wars,

We cannot afford multiple wars.

...According to our laws...

... As far as we can afford...

...someone from another country schools you on YOUR Constitution...

Are you confused here?


Tue, 08/02/2011 - 05:19 | 1516025 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

"I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution which
granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money
of their constituents." - James Madison

"Charity is no part of the legislative duty of the government." - James Madison

"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are
the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take the care of
religion into their own hands; they may appoint teachers in every State, county
and parish and pay them out of their public treasury; they may take into their
own hands the education of children, establishing in like manner schools throughout
the Union; they may assume the provision of the poor; they may undertake the
regulation of all roads other than post-roads; in short, every thing, from the
highest object of state legislation down to the most minute object of police,
would be thrown under the power of Congress... Were the power of Congress to be
established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundations,
and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the
people of America." - James Madison

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 14:30 | 1513700 WW
WW's picture

If you want to live in a third world country go ahead!

You can move to Costa Rica and hire your own security force...

Don't try and turn the #1 country in the world into one big unemployment line, by shutting down the government.

The only thing worse than our crazy government is everything else out there.



Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:11 | 1513315 infotechsailor
infotechsailor's picture

"""""""""""""More prescription drugs, please.  Sorry to have to write this comment.  Paul is missing the ball and so is ZH; it's rare but it happens...""""""""""""


haha wow Jim, you know nothing of Dr. Paul. He has condemned the US tax break for employers to pay for individuals' medical coverage. This is a pay raise that we would all see in our pay checks if not for this subsidy for the insurance companies and your employer. That stupid government decision has unintended consequence of allowing providers to charge the insurance companies ridiculous prices because their customers (YOU the patient) do not Shop around, you don't give 2 sH*TS what you pay for your care because its billing your insurance, ... seriously man think about this for 2 f-qing seconds, and tell me if it makes any sense to you whatsover Jim the Socialist from MN

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:19 | 1513364 Jim in MN
Jim in MN's picture

We are not discussing the costs of health care for private employers.  We are discussing the federal budget. Cost per FTE employee are increasing rapidly.  The cuts being discussed are not trivial and being smug isn't helping the discussion.

I am simply saying that Ron Paul has an opportunity to be serious and thoughtful instead of taking himself out of the debate.  The current situation is the moral equivalent of war, and how do you think the 'thought leaders' (not the psychopaths in actual power) are responding?  Not well, I see.

Paul can do better.  Not an attack.  Just an opinion. 

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:25 | 1513402 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture


When you marginalize someone that is trying to address the root of (or real) problems we face and even more importantly, our children will face, you are in a sense attacking him and his base..

Some of us are tired of band-aids.. We actually want a better life for our children and are willing to sacrafice for it..

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:54 | 1513537 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

Well, if we are discussing the actual health care costs to the government from government employees, then the problem is yet again very simple.  Less government employees means less costs.  Wow, that was hard...

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:44 | 1513183 scratch_and_sniff
scratch_and_sniff's picture

This kind of trickery happens in every government on the planet, the most fascinating trick i ever heard was from Douglas Holtz-Eakin when he was head of the CBO "under bush" - a beautiful little scam of projection it was too, the trick was to project a measure of wage inflation, then alter the budget on the premise that the wage inflation would bring x amount of people up through a particular tax bracket! Genius, bankers have nothing on politicians.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:50 | 1513184 jesse livermoore
jesse livermoore's picture

If it ever appeared that Ron Paul's message was gaining any traction. or if he was close to winning the pres nomination, he would die under mysterious circumstances in a small cessna plane  crash over the pacific northwest.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:14 | 1513343 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

There are other ways.  I'm sure that the powers that be watch the needle.  They'll muddy his name through calls of racism when the time comes, if the time comes.  In the meantime, label him a kook with just enough people to control the appeal.  I spend some time on republican leaning message boards... call it a study in successful propaganda.  You can see the label repeated, it's not that hard.  Then watch fox news manipulate an audio track or two and load up a "focus group", and there you have it... completely neutered.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 14:20 | 1513639 Husk-Erzulie
Husk-Erzulie's picture

Chris Matthews is really, really good at this.  If you can stand to sit through MSMGE to see it.  Here is the grift... Put up a picture of the person in question (the target) so that it fills the entire background, let's say RP in this case.  Start your speed talking monologue, 30 secs, 45, whatever it is.  Here is the key, the monologue doesn't even have to be negative, it can appear to be completely neutral reportage; the art comes in nailing a key word  4 or 5 time fast in succesion and emphasizing it using body language, facial expression and/or tone of voice or even rhythmic timing.  If you do it right, if you have mastered the technique like Matthews has, all the bland supporting verbiage just becomes static while the keywords are pinned to the image, just below the fully concious level, in the mind of the viewer.  Like this... (big picture of RP)...  blah blah blah blah Crackpot blah blah more blah hmmmm Crackpot blah blah blah hum hum hum Crackpot hum dum blah blah blah Crackpot blah blah blah ther are some in america who would call a Crackpot blah blah i'm not sure I agree annnnnnd Crackpot.

Tune in sometime, if you can bear it, and watch a master at work.  Hats off to you Matthews, you for one earn every penny you make.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 14:46 | 1513783 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture - A good documentary, when you have 90 minutes.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:46 | 1513195 r101958
r101958's picture

Notice how he (Ron Paul) is the only pol saying these things? What do you want to bet that he gets very little, if any, airtime to voice his opinion?

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:02 | 1513272 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Don't vote, it worthless to vote, stay at home scratch ass, Ron Paul not matter, no one care.

Who side you on? Maybe watch news one day and you see CNN cover Ron Paul views a lot. You think Boehner even doing what he do because think its right? Fuck no, he doing it because Ron Paul message have traction, people hear Ron Paul and agree. Boehner have to do it, or Ron Paul win Presidency. One latest poll Ron Paul even with Obama. They all scared of Ron Paul!!! Donald Trump blustering if no worthwhile candidate he run. LOL, he see latest poll too.

So stop sniveling little cry baby. And start helping Ron Paul win.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:16 | 1513350 r101958
r101958's picture

Stating facts <> sniveling. Yes, they may interview him but only if they can present him in a negative light. Put that in your smype and poke it.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:22 | 1513371 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Not true, you get CNN where you live? We happy to see Anderson Cooper ask serious question and treat Ron Paul seriously. Other news show too, can't remember. He not laughing stock like last elections. Because he right! People roll eyes and not believe his view before, but now we find out he right.

Pay attention, times are changing, you can be part of positive, or choose stay back in wrongville.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:42 | 1513499 r101958
r101958's picture

whstlblwr - Nope, actually cut all the bs channels off about a month ago. Only get local now. An example of another bait and switch, now we pay for commercials! Anyway, already made a decent donation to Paul. Feel free to peruse my other posts and you will see that I am with him. Also, I should have read more of your previous post so I retract the smype remark. You are correct and I certainly hope we can all make a difference come election time.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 14:43 | 1513770 malalingua
malalingua's picture

I agree, except he isn't a pol he is a statesman.  Ronulus Paulus Maximus.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:48 | 1513196 serndipity
serndipity's picture

Freeze what budget?


America does not even have a budget for FY2011....even though the 1974 Budget Act requires Congress to pass a budget each year by April 15.



Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:02 | 1513271 Silver Dreamer
Silver Dreamer's picture

The law is just an obstacle to lawyers.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 14:24 | 1513661 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

No, not an obstacle.

More like a couple of strands of spider web across their doorway as they run out to steal our money from us and give it to their Masters on Wall Street, lol.

But that is hyperbole on my part, as the law wouldnt add up to even two strands of spider silk to these guys.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 14:46 | 1513782 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

I alsway thought it was due on April Fools day...

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:50 | 1513211 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

Freeze the budget, and eliminate the debt owed to the fed (1,6 trillion). That´s Ron Pauls concept.

Hopefully AmeriKans realize that this man is their only chance to break out of the debt slavery.

Donate to the good Dr.:

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:27 | 1513412 Max Hunter
Max Hunter's picture

Don't worry.. we won't..

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:49 | 1513212 gatorontheloose
gatorontheloose's picture

adjectives are partisan

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:50 | 1513215 jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

Ron Paul needs to be exposed as well.  Hey Ron, cancel the fraud via Glass-Steagall.

He's moved an inch in that direction, time to push him the other mile.

Drop the austrian nonsense.  It's bullshit TOO.

It doesn't mean his criticism of the 'cuts' are being bandied about.  But why cut when you can cancel!


He's just criticizing the legitimacy of a lie, in the context that there was a better more leitimate lie.  Who cares?


Go with the truth.  Glass-Steagall. That's the real solution. 


Ron Paul, still listening to Austrian bullshit dogma, instead of focusing on the real solution.  That is why he really fails.  Because in his own way, he's no smarter than the rest.


We've been defrauded.  Your austrian dogma isn't the solution to fraud.  Wake up and smell the bullshit under your nose.    So he comes up with idiot ideas that won't change a damn thing.  Hey Ron, your plans don't save america, just distract people, make their lives worse, as wall street banksters still consolidates their power over us. 

Keynesians increase the debt

Austrians force austerity and spending freezes, cuts, etc to pay it off.

What a FRAUDULENT setup.



Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:00 | 1513257 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

Stop sreading bullshit:

Ron Paul voted against the GRAMM-LEACH-BLILEY ACT that changed Glass-Steagall:

Do some research before spreading lies!


Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:26 | 1513385 baby_BLYTHE
baby_BLYTHE's picture

exactly. As usual, he could see the writing on the wall and the damage it would cause well in advance.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:51 | 1513471 firefighter302
firefighter302's picture

I was about to reply to your comments, JMC8888... then I went and read about the Glass-Steagall repeal in 1999.

While we certainly see Dr. Paul and Austrian economics in a totally different light, it appears that this Graham-Steagal replacement with the Gramm-Leach-Bliley (3 Republicans) bill opened the door for big banks to become massive.

The new bill allowed comercial banks, investment banks, securities firms, and insurance companies to consolodate. (Among several significant changes)

Thanks for pointing this out on the forum. I had never read about this change in the banking laws. Very interesting.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 14:04 | 1513569 WallStreetClass...'s picture

Congrats! You've discovered America! Yes, repeal of Glass Steagall was one of the most damaging hits to our economy. Banks got bigger, banks used REAL DEPOSITS as their own money, to lever up and gamble more. This is why there is no "unwinding" this now. The TBTF banks must be shut down. They asked to Glass Steagall and promised they would behave. They didn't. End of the fuckin conversation!

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 14:28 | 1513681 JimBowie1958
JimBowie1958's picture

If we just hold the line on the federral debt, the TBTF banksters will be out on their butts on the sidewalk in no time.

They feed on federal debt like vampiric parasites.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:51 | 1513220 agrotera
agrotera's picture

America is "losing it's mind" Ron Paul brings back sanity. 

Obama's blackmail on cutting social security checks and veteran's checks successfully hushed the voice of reason enough to slip through more debt that will put America's security in jeapordy. 

Obama and most/all who passed this are juggernauts supreme.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:51 | 1513221 NumberNone
NumberNone's picture

Not sure why this time would get any special note.  That's the way it's always been.  Any time one side or the other talks about spending cuts they are talking about reductions to future increase...these are the 'draconian' measures that we always hear about.  Both sides love the game and both sides will continue to play it. 

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:51 | 1513222 Yardstick of Ci...
Yardstick of Civilization's picture

Seriously folks, I am brand new to trading and feel blessed to have found the wisdom of Zero Hedge so early in the game.  I read all these posts about macro trends, fraud, misdirection, and corruption and cannot help but being a bear long-term, even as a newcomer to trading.  It seems that hyperinflation is unavoidable . . . eventually.

I also recognize this an incredible trader's market.  Here's my question for the communtiy: What is honestly the best way to trade this thing?  Do selloffs like today (and probably this week or even month) present buying opportunites akin to the 2009 lows for short-term profits?

It seems difficult to view any selloff as the beginning of the end, since there has never been an "end" in this country before.  Is there a thesis that suggests this particular round is different somehow?

Regardless, I'd love to hear ideas on trading this.  I've been following threads for a long time and have gained respect for a number of you, so I hope to hear your views.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:04 | 1513288 fuu
fuu's picture

Yahoo has some boards you should read.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:09 | 1513313 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Oh god, again? You try new tactic. Here's clue for you, take out all kiss ass from posts to hide self better.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 15:52 | 1514149 Yardstick of Ci...
Yardstick of Civilization's picture

You guys are dickheads.  How about that?  A fucking kid trying to get slightly ahead in a fucked up world gets pummeled for asking honest questions?  You need to have your heads examined.  I was trying to be respectful, not kiss ass.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 16:31 | 1514299 markar
markar's picture

lot's of traders here kiddo, but this ain't a trading site. Pisses em off every time.

Tue, 08/02/2011 - 12:17 | 1516989 Yardstick of Ci...
Yardstick of Civilization's picture

Thanks, markar.  I get that now.  ZH is literally the best source of information I've ever found, so I'm committed to learning to make use of it in the markets and was just looking for some guidance.  If you have any recommendations, I'm all ears.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 18:56 | 1514716 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

I thought you government troll.

Only advice I have is buy or sell in increments (never use margin). It what I do, I don't sell at loss. If trade going in wrong direction, I wait 4-5 days and average, then take profit at bounce. Some think it bad idea, but work for me. Also think using Fibonacci numbers good tool. Lots trading books you can buy.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:55 | 1513233 Fukushima Sam
Fukushima Sam's picture

We pay 35 percent more for our military today than we did 10 years ago, for the exact same capabilities.  The same could be said for the rest of the government.  Why has our budget doubled in 10 years?  This country doesn't have double the population, or double the land area, or double anything that would require the federal government to grow by such an obscene amount.

Ummm, inflation Ron?  The kind not tracked by the CPI?

Ummm, rising cost of energy inputs, Ron?  It takes a lot of oil to make all those wars.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:03 | 1513275 swissaustrian
swissaustrian's picture

Do you think that a man warning AmeriKans on the coming hyperinflation and a dollar crisis doesn´t know this?

He just uses the same argument as the cpi-fakers do. Nothing changes - in NOMINAL terms.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:06 | 1513296 Mike2756
Mike2756's picture

Inflation and outsourcing, it was better when the military was a self-contained unit, no sub contractors to bilk the system.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:47 | 1513514 Random_Robert
Random_Robert's picture


"It takes a lot of oil to make all those wars."


Our military exists to secure oil supplies that are used to maintain the policy of killing foreigners (we call it "defending freedom"- they call it "getting killed")

We extract and refine the oil, and then burn it in the planes and tanks we use to invade other countries in the interest of securing more oil to run through our tanks and planes as we look for still other countries to invade in the interest of securing more oil... 

Brilliant in it's elemental stupidity.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 14:56 | 1513838 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

"It takes a lot of [snake] oil to make all those wars."


Fixed it.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:56 | 1513238 Cone of Uncertainty
Cone of Uncertainty's picture

Ron Paul's writings will be studied by economists, scholars, and political historians in the future.

Oh, wait, fuck...we have no future.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:23 | 1513379 kridkrid
kridkrid's picture

Someone wrote something funny last week... something like he'll spend the next two years writing his magnum opus entitled "I tried to warn you stupid fucks but nobody cared to listen" but nobody will be able to read it as we'll all be fighting WWIII.  Actually, it wasn't very funny.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:56 | 1513240 mynhair
mynhair's picture

Let's see RP do something for once, like filibuster this pig.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:07 | 1513301 fuu
fuu's picture

No filibuster in the House. Limited floor time. Only in the Senate can it still occur.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:11 | 1513322 Jonas Parker
Jonas Parker's picture

Difficult to do since Dr. Ron Paul is in the House of Representatives and a filibuster can only be done in the US Senate...

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:13 | 1513338 glenlloyd
glenlloyd's picture

why don't you do something like complain to your reps about it?

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:39 | 1513481 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

T minus 5 min until you cough up another heir ball........................

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:57 | 1513244 HL Shancken
HL Shancken's picture



Republicans who vote for this piece of garbage bill need to be put on notice in no uncertain terms that if we wanted communists in office we would have voted for them, and we easily could have done so by choosing any democrat you care to name. Any Republican who still plans on voting yes now that the truth about the bill has been spread far and wide deserves to have his office staff abused, mocked, ridiculed, humiliated, and put on notice that this is their boss' final term.





Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:59 | 1513248 lizzy36
lizzy36's picture

Good luck with that.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:06 | 1513294 HL Shancken
HL Shancken's picture

Good luck with that? It's August 1, sweetheart, and no bill has passed. The reason why no bill has passed is because people have already gotten on the phone and told their reps that this is their last term if they vote for this garbage. And this was before the facts of what's in the bill became widely known.



Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:16 | 1513281 Timmay
Timmay's picture

I just called my Rep, he is in the Tea Party caucus. I told him (his staffer) not to vote for this bill and the people know it is a complete charade. I said the ONLY person that will be happy with this bill will be Barrack Obama.

I then asked him if people were calling in and he said they were. I asked, what the general concensus was and he said there wasn't one. People are all over the place as to reasons why to vote for it and why to vote against it.

The beautiful thing about all of this is that growing numbers of people are starting to pay attention to what is really going on.

The Hobbits of Middle Earth are rising....

Oh, and did John McCain actually WATCH LOTR? The Hobbits win.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 12:59 | 1513249 oldmanagain
oldmanagain's picture

The budget actually buys things and things can cost more.  SS has not gone up for two years, but everything else has.  Better weapons cost more.  Etc. Etc.   Dr. Paul lives in a cave.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:07 | 1513303 Mike2756
Mike2756's picture

Better weapons or cost overruns?

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:03 | 1513262 HL Shancken
HL Shancken's picture

As of last week these Republican traitors planned on voting for the bill.




Joe Barton (Texas)

(202) 225-2002


Dan Benishek (Mich.)

(202) 225-4735


Dan Burton (Ind.)

(202) 225-2276


Michael Burgess (Texas)

(202) 225-7772


Kevin Brady (Texas)

(202) 225-4901


Quico Canseco (Texas)

(202) 225-4511


Scott DesJarlais (Tenn.)

(202) 225-6831


Stephen Fincher (Tenn.)

(202) 225-4714


Chuck Fleischmann (Tenn.)

(202) 225-3271


Trent Franks (Ariz.)

(202) 225-4576


Scott Garrett (N.J.)

(202) 225-4465


Morgan Griffith (Va.)

(202) 225-3861


Randy Hultgren (Ill.)

(202) 225-2976


Bill Huizenga (Mich.)

(202) 225-4401


Walter Jones (N.C.)

(202) 225-3415


Jack Kingston (Ga.)

(202) 225-5831


Raul Labrador (Idaho)

(202) 225-6611


Tom Latham (Iowa)

(202) 225-5476


Jeff Landry (La.)

(202) 225-4031


Tom McClintock (Calif.)

(202) 225-2511


Tom Marino (Pa.)

(202) 225-3731


Jeff Miller (Fla.)

(202) 225-4136


Devin Nunes (Calif.)

(202) 225-2523


Ben Quayle (Ariz.)

(202) 225-3361


Denny Rehberg (Mont.)

(202) 225-3211


Tom Rooney (Fla.)

(202) 225-5792


Jean Schmidt (Ohio)

(202) 225-3164


David Schweikert (Ariz.)

(202) 225-2190


Tim Scott (S.C.)

(202) 225-3176


Marlin Stutzman (Ind.)

(202) 225-4436


Michael Turner (Ohio)

(202) 225-6465


Lynn Westmoreland (Ga.)

(202) 225-5901


Joe Wilson (S.C.)

(202) 225-2452


Kevin Yoder (Kan.) (202) 225-2865
Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:25 | 1513400 r101958
r101958's picture

OR EMAIL.....they count the number of emails for and against a bill. Find your representative here:

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:37 | 1513464 JR
JR's picture

Is there some mistake on McClintock?

I understand McClintock was a “no” vote on the Boehner Bill and in an interview this morning he suggested he probably could not support what was being outlined but needed time to review it.

Here is a list of the "noes" posted on The Blaze by Stuck_in_CA on July 29, 2011 at 8:15pm

Here are the 22 no votes: ( Courageous Patriots!)

Justin Amash (Mich.)
Michele Bachmann (Minn.)
Chip Cravaack (Minn.)

Jason Chaffetz (Utah)
Scott Desjarlais (Tenn.)
Tom Graves (Ga.)
Tim Huelskamp (Kans.)
Steve King (Iowa)
Tim Johnson (Ill.)
Tom McClintock (Calif.)
Mick Mulvaney (S.C.)
Ron Paul (Texas)
Connie Mack (Fla.)
Jim Jordan (Ohio)
Tim Scott (S.C.)
Paul Broun (Ga.)
Tom Latham (Iowa)
Jeff Duncan (S.C.)
Trey Gowdy (S.C.)
Steve Southerland (Fla.)
Joe Walsh (Ill.)
Joe Wilson (S.C.)

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 15:00 | 1513865 notRobot
notRobot's picture

I just called every one of them.  You made it easy for us! Human being picks up the phone in each case and only half of them actually asks where you're calling from.  Talk to 'em, friends!

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:01 | 1513266 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

End the Fed. 

Problems, all of them, solved.

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:02 | 1513273 mojine
mojine's picture

I just saved 2 trillion by calling GEICO !

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:04 | 1513286 poorhousebob
poorhousebob's picture

does anyone remeber the climate in Oct. 08' (crisis)? TARP came from that, then porkulus, now we have a debt ceiling crisis. does anyone expect something good to come from "this crisis"?

"hold me close now tiny dancer" Rahm Emanuel said "never let a good crisis go to waste".


Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:04 | 1513287 poorhousebob
poorhousebob's picture

does anyone remeber the climate in Oct. 08' (crisis)? TARP came from that, then porkulus, now we have a debt ceiling crisis. does anyone expect something good to come from "this crisis"?

"hold me close now tiny dancer" Rahm Emanuel said "never let a good crisis go to waste".


Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:04 | 1513289 dropdeadfed
dropdeadfed's picture

"what the fuck is this"

Mon, 08/01/2011 - 13:07 | 1513305 midtowng
midtowng's picture

The Mercedes vs. Honda analogy isn't exactly right.

   Instead of projected spending on buying a car, what we are really talking about is projected spending on life-saving cancer treatments. Instead of chemo we are only going to buy gall bladder surgery.

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