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How many S&P points will this be worth on Monday?
Round-up of talking points: blah blah blah blah
Here's all you need to know: The debt ceiling is going up, despite the public's insistence that it go down. The next time the debt ceiling becomes another manufactured issue will be AFTER the 2012 elections when politicians are better shielded from the wrath of their constituents. And the vast majority of spending cuts will occur in the distant future when it will be someone else's problem to deal with. In other words, foot meet can.
As always, Washington wins. America looses.
Hey! Show some respect. Wall Street wins too.
When you think about it neither group really wants to pull back spending, they just want to rid themselves of that pesky Tea Party so that the 'party' can continue. Looks to me that they may have achieved their objective thanks to the actions of Mr. Boener and his 220 representatives that sold out.
Right. Also dont forget how quickly the establishment republicans offered the tea party the services of a Tax LLM (Bachmann) and got Norquist (lets keep the tax code like it is, I am a radical cause I am stopping government from growing) to copt the tea party "message" American Hero John McCain calle th teaparty a bunch of hobbits.
Complete and total dilution.
"Cut, Cap and Balance" has been replaced with "Spend, More and Borrow" !
Yep. Forgot that one.
Speaking of Wall Street, why have this debt ceiling in the first place? Why not let the bond market just handle it? This debt ceiling has been raised 75 times in a row now, there's no indication it will ever be capped and Washington spends whatever money it wants anyway. That sort of makes it all a farce, doesn't it?
Let the bond market handle the debt limit, and spare us this perfectly choreographed kabuki theatre which we all know will end as soon as the August recess begins.
Edit in: by the way, in my post above, it's loses, not looses. My bad. Little early in the morning. Sorry.
The Bureau of Economic Truth under Obama Czar Bernie Madoff downgraded the prior economic outlook under Bush to "Worst Depression Ever". Madoff was quoted: "Obama inherited the worst depression ever, he has saved the economy and we should reward him with at least 4 more terms in office!"
Sell the news, buy PM's.
Heres all you need to know- Dollar down, PM's up.
Here's all you need to know: The debt ceiling is going up, despite the public's insistence that it go down.
Here's all you need to know: The debt ceiling is going up, despite the public's insistence that it go down.
Ha! You missed the Code Words:
Taxes will be raised to cover new spending increases.
"Cuts" = less increase, maybe later. Spending is going up!
The debt ceiling is going UP, spending is going UP, and TAXES are going UP, too.
The serfs are going to get reamed behind the woodshed again! Vaseline is for sissies.
The best "enforcement mechanism" would be to break the check-writing fingers of everyone in D.C.! :>D
Wait a minute.
If parties agree to content, enforcement mechanism is the least important matter.
What's going on here is they are trying desperately to agree to things and then not do them. They don't really agree. THAT is why enforcement has to be steel hard, and why, one presumes, it is the Democrats that are terrified of it. They want to agree to cuts to get the ceiling raised, and then not do the cuts.
As so many ZHers know, THIS is why FY 2012 cuts are so important. Once that money comes out, it can't be reneged on without a vote to add.
Boehner's plan was $22B pre final revision for FY2012 reduction. Maybe more for the final vote. I'd bet on $20 Billion for FY 2012 reduction in the deal.
That number doesn't look big, but it's huge in the context that in contrast to 1 January 2011, which had QE2 stimulus, Bush tax cut extension stimulus and 2% Soc Sec tax cut stimulus, 1 Jan 2012 will see expiration of 2% SS tax, no QE2, and a yank out of $20B. Fiscal contraction, guys, with GDP amid all that stimulus at 0.4%.
So do the Republicans. The two parties are one in the same and are controlled by the same masters: the Global Bank Cartel.
This whole debt ceiling farce has been a first class ruse. Evil people doing evil things...
@CrashisOptimistic: Your rational is sound, EXCEPT then the Fed "lends" banks a few trillion and the party continues http://www.dailypaul.com/171633/bernie-sanders-the-fed-audit-us-provided-a-whopping-16-trillion-in-secret-loans-to-bail-out-us-and-foreign-banks
Don't fight the Fed...
Crash, You are spot on here. Spending in FY 2011 (ends Sept) will be 3.708 trillion, and the the CBO baseline for FY 2012 was $3.655 trillion. If Boehner's plan of $22 billion off the baseline is used that falls to $3.630 trillion. And that doesn't even include further cuts that may come in calender year 2012 from the special committee's requirement for more cuts, or automatic triggers.
As far as FY 2012, the baseline CBO projections includes eliminating the 2% payroll stimulus, but also the following:
1. The 30% reimburshment cut to physicians under Medicare. Normally the Congress automatically repeals this. If they add it back on it costs about a $100 billion
2. In addition, as a facilitation to maintaining unemployment insurance, the states have utilized a little discussed credit line from the Federal government The balances are currently $40.5 billion owed by the states. The Federal loans to support the State Unemployment Trust Fund remained interest free through Dec. 31 of last year, but interest began to accrue on Jan. 1, 2011. The first interest payment will be due on Sept. 30, 2011. Will the Federal Government defer this, too? If not, it will be just one more burden on the states.
3. The FY 2012 budget presumes that the one-year unemployment extension to 99 weeks will go away. If it does, then 6.7 million quasi-permanent unemployed will fall off of benefits, resulting in a hard to imagine amount of distress, disorder and rioting. The cost of the 73-week extension beyond the traditional 26 weeks is $100 billion.
Worse, the baseline FY 2012 is extremely optimistic about tax revenues, 2011- 2.228 trillion (unlikely to be reach), 2012- 2.555 and 2013 3.090. The baseline FY 2012 deficit $1.1 trillion using these numbers.
This is totally off-topic...
Does anybody know where I can find the archived articles that are shown across the very top of ZH?
By the time I finish reading one (along with the comments), I go back up to the top and the other ones I wanted to read has "rolled off" the list.
Where do these go?
"contributors" tab in upper right
Thank you, Reese! I always expected "contributors" to be a list of names, and never even looked. I was always looking for a "more" or "older posts" or something. Thanks again!
This is a dud and the constitutional amendment is dead on arrival. The whole point of the constitional amendment thing is to abort the idea before it gets wide suport. I wonder how much time they will buy with all this nonsense.
Any agreements made to raise debt ceiling limit can be changed in a heartbeat later for any number of
reasons, especially those that don't go into effect for years. So all this political debate is just posturing and
has little to do real tax hikes or real spending cuts. If they agreed to a balance budget in the future, who in
their right mind would believe that will come to fruition?
Its finally over!!! Shame on me for not having faith in our politicians. Nothing left to do but sell my pms, go out tomorrow and purchase a new suv--financed over 7 years, start shopping for christmas--compliments of visa, stop off at mcdonalds for my "value meal", oh in all my excitement over the debt resolution i forgot to set my dvr to every reality show on tv.......
I'll buy your PMs in about a month. I hear they do interest only loans for SUVs. You might want to have a look into that.
LATEST NEWS: "WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid said Sunday there was no agreement yet on raising the federal debt ceiling, but "we are cautiously optimistic."
"We make men without chests and expect of them virtue and enterprise. We laugh at honor and are shocked to find traitors in our midst. We castrate and then bid the geldings to be fruitful."
-- C.S. Lewis
We are running deficits because the country has lost 7 mm jobs (1 in 4 adult males now permanently unemployed). For most Americans there will no new permanent jobs, only part time). Lets be adults and raise the debt limit, one or two weeks at a time until there is a consensus that we must change both spending and taxes (4 to 5 trillion over 10 years real cuts). We are now a poorer nation and can't afford unlimited food stamps (EBT), social security, medicare, medicaid and particularly financial aid for some worthless college (for profit) university. Short term extensions, real cuts.
Congratulations to both false choice political parties for a substantive increase in the inflation tax to acquire some more bombs, prisons, counter-productive regulation, counter-productive indoctrination of children & transfers of stuff to people who haven't earned the stuff. They have succeeded in accelerating the inevitable global realization that all US federal & state government promises are worth ZERO.
Biting words there Narnia, well said.
did yer site crash from too much "unsolicited" admiration? why do you remind me of cruella deville trying to corral a herd of puupies?
just a projection, prob'ly, eh?
oh! now i see the advertisement~~~from the post 1 min b4 this one.
i'm so embarrassed!
are you only posting one link to yourself per string?
that would be a wonderful improvement!
That's about as wrong as the *solution* the idiots are presenting.
They are just raising America's indebitness to the banks, to pay off the fraud that the banks perpetuated against us.
There will be no mag-lev, there will be no productive regulation, there will be no ending the wars, there will be no fusion, no space program, no nawapa, no machine tools, no desalinization, no accountability for the banksters crimes. Nope.
No poor person benefits from this. Only the banksters. Besides, if the banksters weren't controlling this whole debate, there'd be a whole lot more people, earning stuff.
Besides, if America doesn't make anything anymore, who is actually earning money? Just because you have money, doesn't mean you earned it. After all THIS has been our system for decades. Lots of 'wealth' was created by doing nothing. Hey that's our system, sleight of hand. Don't create real wealth, steal fake wealth and foot someone else the bill. Sorry our problem has always been banksters, not welfare recipients. The banks caused this, not welfare or grandma. Only destroying those banks and the structure will right this, not welfare or grandma.
The rich haven't transfered anything to the poor, it's been the other way around. The poor and middle class have given up, and continue to give up even more to the bankster class. Class warfare has been on for decades, and the middle class just didn't notice it...even as it has basically lost.
Because the tea party is full of dumbfucks
Because the republican party is full of dipshits
Because the democrat party is full of idiots
All wanting to cut, tax, and print....instead of saying, hey!...we've been defrauded, and we're going to cancel that fraud, known as our debt, because it's fraudulent debt. Because we the people have laws, just laws, that can take care of this sort of thing. They've been used before, and we can use them again. Except when we have a bunch of dumbfuck, dipshit, idiots running around missing the entire point and falling back on their dogma to point fingerse at the wrong people to distract themselves from the real culprit.
With Glass-Steagall you point the finger right at correct spot.
the existence or non-existence of glass steagall is irrelevant if we end the Fed, global central banks & legal tender laws. you're focused on the foam & missing the wave.
let's say glass-steagall is re-implemented. that's not going to stop the inevitable demise of the $. we're well beyond that point now.
welfare comes in many forms, not just in promises to pay 100% of health care irrespective of your personal habits & choices or your interest in consumer conservation, but also in the form of legal or subsidy preference to select business interest- banking & state pensions most significant among them.
there are a lot of culprits in this mess. i hate to burst your bubble, but buying 65 year old 250 lb. grandma a $100,000 heart trasnplant (that is really $30,000 with a bunch of stupid insurance and other price game & ER subsidiy add backs) because she paid $5,000 in her working years to Medicare is part of the problem.
"Here I come to save the day" !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"Have no fear the printing press is here" !
quote: printing press 7/31/11
"""The whole point of the constitional amendment thing is to abort the idea before it gets wide suport. I wonder how much time they will buy with all this nonsense."""
Sharp observation. That would put too much power back into the hands of the USA public citizen.
Amerika is moving to cash for protection.
Hahahhhhhhhh! It ain't over till it's over boyz and gurlz.
We are in the shadow of a Mercury retrograde, to go full retard on August 3rd.
I suggest this is far from over. And what is being stuffed in this deal that will come out after?
I don't get a good feeling. This is no ordinary political theater either. It's rather macabre, given what lies on the other end of this tale.
What's on the other side....Howse about the Catastrophic Exceptionary Imporbable But Really Important Mutant Emergency Clause?After all, the current operative definition of terrorism includes some form of financial dooms-pending abyss prevention and precautionary actions.So call out the Council of Governors, the Supreme House-Senate Conference of 6, impose the Emergency Declaration of Powers, enact the Communications Kill Control and Process of Freedom of Thought and Speech Acts, have the elected representatives burn the Houses of Congress to the ground, CLose the Library of Congress in favour of electronic storage of all redacted information, impose Martial accords amongst Central Command and Law Enforcement...Everybody loves it!Freedom is preserved!The actors making the motions of the two opposed parties, the charade continues, the gravy train persists for those on the train, the ratings agencies stay in business, the press retains it's "freedoms" to present that which is presented to be presented, the banksters get to contine funding the lawmakers...............
Oh fuck.It all continues as planned.The engineered crisis reaps its own ststus quo accord.The peasnatry has been distracted.
And the essential bodily fluids of the ruling elite replentished.
Bernays and Hegel rejoice.All is well in Hell's Heaven.
I find your lack of faith in Chancellor Palpatine disturbing!
Decision has been made from both parties in DC: Ponzi On!
Not a clue how to deal with a non-Ponzi economy.
Not an idea, not a thought, not a dream, not a vision, not a concept, not a plan, not an impulse, not a subconscious whisper, not a notion, not a desire, not a will, not a resolve, not a hope, not an aim, not an intention, not a disposition, not a picture, not a projection, not a proposal, not a tactic, not a stretegy, not an intent.
US insolvent, 120:1 debt to GDP, no worries they got money printing. Nothings changed, cash out paper buy PM's.
A real person sans teleprompter and probably a future if not current star.This is the kind of leadership we're looking for:
Without the morphine drip the economy goes into terminal withdrawal, so this debate was meaningless.
Its purpose? Illusion and distraction:
1) Make voters believe there is still a governing body that decides serious issues;
2) Stall the agreement long enough to concentrate the mind on the deadline, and not the empty deal that will only roll the snowball and send PMs higher.
Oh I think America could build out a new economy with the proper resolve.
Ask yourself: but why is there no resolve, why not even a proposal?
Answer: too many in DC and elsewhere still getting fat off the status quo Ponzi. And to hell with every other American citizen, America's future and the whole damn failed experiment. That's their attitude, not mine
Agreed, $10 Trillion reduction glide path to a deficit rate below GDP growth rate is optimal, but I see at least two obstacles: the cure could kill the patient because the global clusterfuck is on the verge of implosion; or, it pleases our neo-feudal masters to extend and pretend, the better to bleed the peasantry and retain power. If the music were to stop, maybe bearers of torches and pitchforks could demand and obtain less kleptocracy.
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain.
"But money is only a tool. It will take you wherever you wish, but it will not replace you as the driver. It will give you the means for the satisfaction of your desires, but it will not provide you with desires. Money is the scourge of the men who attempt to reverse the law of causality--the men who seek to replace the mind by seizing the products of the mind." -- Francisco D'Anconia, "Atlas Shrugged"
Barbara Botox Boxter makes me sick.
Talk about an actress !!! But a "bad" one.
It is hard to imagine that anyone who feels like you about BBB has not seen this, but it's pretty darn funny even a second time:
The complicit and sycophantic MSM is curiously now involved in planting the notion that, somehow, action taken to raise the debt ceiling is causing Wall Street economist to stand down on their fears of a double dip recession. Crony media entities.
This talking point has come very quickly, suggesting that it was pre positioned ahead of today's farcical developments in DC.
Banana Republic Tree Crony Nation.
The only purpose now for Tea Party members in Congress is that of protesting loudly this "solution," one of fixing debt with more debt. If this plan passes, they will be marginalized due to the deleterious effects of this action upon the Republican party...their caucus.
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