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Ryan 2013 Budget Details Released, In Which We Find The US Runs A Deficit Until 2040

Tyler Durden's picture


As noted yesterday, Paul Ryan proposed a 2013 budget, which has no chance of passing, and is "focused on deficit reduction." An hour ago, the full 5-page detail was released to the public. And if this is the plan that hopes to cut US budget deficits, then America is royally screwed, as according to page 5, the first time that the US resume a budget surplus is in... 2040.

Keep in mind that of the proposed budgets, as unrealistic as this one is (as it grows revenues miraculously from $2.4 trillion to $4.6 trillion in 10 years by cutting taxes) likely has the best chance of cutting deficits, since earlier today the CBO, which is basically Wall Street's conduit of defining policy (as explained previously by a whistleblower), said the budget is "ungradable", which is simply Wall Street's way to express its dissatisfaction with this attempt to escape from public risk onboarding. That said, if indeed the US, in the most aggressive case, can grow revenues to be greater than outlays, at the earliest in just about 30 years, then it is all over.

Incidentally, if someone can explain to us how US debt as a % of GDP can be declining even as the US continues to post a deficit, please advise.

Full budget link pdf



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Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:22 | 2273277 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Just one more hit, bitchezzz!!!

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:24 | 2273286 Daily Collateral
Daily Collateral's picture

This must be the NEW Path to Prosperity

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:27 | 2273310 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Addiction is defined as the continued use of a mood altering substance or behaviour despite adverse consequences.[1] This can include, but is not limited to alcohol abuse, drug abuse, exercise abuse, and gambling. Some defining characteristics of addiction include impaired control over subtances/behaviour, preoccupation with substance/behaviour, continued use despite consequences, and denial.[2] Habits and patterns associated with addiction are typically characterized by immediate gratification (short-term reward), coupled with delayed deleterious effects (long-term costs).[3] Physiological dependence occurs when the body has to adjust to the substance by incorporating the substance into its 'normal' functioning.[4] This state creates the conditions of tolerance, and withdrawal. Tolerance is the process by which the body continually adapts to the substance and requires increasingly larger amounts to achieve the original effects. Withdrawal refers to physical and psychological symptoms people experience when reducing or discontinuing a substance the body had become dependent on. Symptoms of withdrawal generally include but are not limited to anxiety, irritability, intense cravings for the substance, nausea, hallucinations, headaches, cold sweats, and tremors.


Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:29 | 2273321 SheepRevolution
SheepRevolution's picture

The U.S. won't have a deficit in 2040, because the U.S will be long gone by then.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:37 | 2273352 economics9698
economics9698's picture

The deficit can decline as a percentage of the GDP if the economy is growing faster than the growth of government. 

In a healthy economy the productive private sector would grow at a 3 to 5% pace and government at a 2 to 3% pace.  So while the deficit in nominal terms would increase the proportion to the total economy it would decrease.

In the GDP equation, GDP = C + I + G + NX, the G part grows slower than the C or the I part.



Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:42 | 2273397 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Without cheap oil, growth is not an option.  Now where the fuck are those fusion reactors I ordered?

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 16:29 | 2273969 Normalcy Bias
Normalcy Bias's picture

Aw c'mon! Everyone knows that algae is the energy of the future!

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:48 | 2273424 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Some of you seem to be oblivious to taxation policies and the Laffer Curve effect.  Briefly if you increase taxes above 30% people engage in tax avoidance behavior.  From 25% to 30% you get more taxes but at the cost of economic growth.  25% or lower is the optimal tax rate where you want to raise revenue at.  Which is the Ryan proposed top tax rate.

Here is a video from Dan Mitchell of the CATO Institute that explains the Laffer Curve.  Mr. Mitchell is also the most knowledgeable economist I know of on tax policy.  He is a tax policy expert supreme and I would highly recommend Tyler ask Mr. Mitchell to make a guest post on explaining good and bad tax policy to the ZH readers.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:59 | 2273474 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Hey moron, the Laffer curve is a fucking joke.  Wake the fuck up, people are already engaged in "tax avoidance behavior".

You want to pay for and maintain your own sewers, power grids, roads, bridges, police, fire, first-responders?  By all means, fucking bring it.

You probably also believe that there is no real cost for creating capital without adding any real value to the system and favor ZIRP.  How has that been working out for Japan again?

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:07 | 2273524 Iwanttoknow
Iwanttoknow's picture

We need more Voodoo economics.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:58 | 2273760 TMT
TMT's picture

So you're saying we (you know, the 51% who actually pay federal income taxes) need to be taxed more?

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:02 | 2273504 T-roll
T-roll's picture

Romney engages in tax avoidance behavior and his tax rate is only around 15%.

No one likes paying taxes.  We need to get rid of the income tax and institute a national sales tax.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 15:41 | 2274462 rayduh4life
rayduh4life's picture

So Romney and Buffet can pay less?

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 15:39 | 2274452 rayduh4life
rayduh4life's picture

Hey econ 9698, first it's called a laughter curve, second, if tax cuts are the be all end all of spurring an economy, how come we not in an economic boom (foreclosure business notwithstanding) and lastly, if you want to live in a tax free paradise, move to Greece.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:28 | 2273359 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Just think about it.


This is the so-called conserv-rat-ive alternative to the demoncratic one!

Yes, some still believe there are two different political choices and republican form of constitutional democracy in the U.S.

These people think Deep Capture is a Discovery Channel fishing show.




*I could wipe out the deficit in approx 1/2 hour using a black sharpie (just give me a very loyal, competent, large, robustly armed & technologically adept security detail having no conflicting loyalties to the MIC) and that would literally have 90%+ of Americans feeling little to no pain and their children far better off, but some will tell you I don't understand the extraordinary complexities of governing in the modern age.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:37 | 2273375 BKbroiler
BKbroiler's picture

U.S will be long gone by then.

or everybody else...

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:16 | 2273573 old naughty
old naughty's picture

I used to think these are the two sides of the equation.

Guess I am wrong.

Those who remain are not in the formula !

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:37 | 2273379 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Governments are addicted to debt.

The banking cabal, as dealers of debt and recipients of interest payments, foster the addiction.

Society pays the price of the addict's behavior.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:10 | 2273547 old naughty
old naughty's picture

Right you are.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:02 | 2273503 grid-b-gone
grid-b-gone's picture

No 2040 deficit if no other Congress or administration adds more programs, federal employees, wars, or spending for the next 28 years.

So, if Ryan and the "wealth creators" get their permanent tax cut, revenues will still not outpace spending for another three decades. How nice of Paul Ryan to permanently lock in debt for the next generation.

I'm sure he's thought of every possible future scenario and his plan saves future politicians from having to look at these bothersome numbers each year.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:24 | 2273284 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Shouldn't "ungradable" equal impossible therfore equaling disaster, which I'd have to consider a grade.

Just not one they want to mention, as it's beyond computation.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:25 | 2273290 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

We aren't going to last until 2040. What a friggen joke.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:29 | 2273328 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

Yep, Wiemer only lasted 24 years till the nazis took over. I wonder where we are on that time line. Seems pretty close to the end I would guess since we became a debtor nation in the 80's well over 24 years ago.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:37 | 2273378 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

'We became a debtor nation in the '80's'...

1780's, I assume you meant. 

'The 'Founding Fathers' as constitutors, acknowledged and re-organized the debt in the 'US Constitution' in 1781, Article VI, hence 'CONSTITUTION'. Bankruptcy occurred on Jan 1 1788 based on innability to repay 21 loans from King George from Feb 28 1778 thru July 5 1782, the repayment of which had been ratified by congress on Jan 22 1783. The 'United States Bank' created in 1791 was a private bank with 18,000 of the 25,000 shares owned outright by England.'

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:12 | 2273555 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Downvote, yet no informed reply to show where I am wrong. What, you just didnt like seeing the truth?

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 15:55 | 2277582 Doubleguns
Doubleguns's picture

Was not me. Your entitiled to adding to the discussion.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:25 | 2273291 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

Since a budget deficit of less than 10% of GDP is now referred to as "austerity", Uncle Shithead will continue to run budget deficits of at least 10% of GDP until the bond market makes him stop. But I'm thinking this happens long before 2040.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:26 | 2273302 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Bond market??? Stop it, you're killing me.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:34 | 2273354 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

Many people fail to realize that flooding the world with cheap money can "cut both ways".

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:32 | 2273345 alexwest
alexwest's picture

good one


Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:25 | 2273294 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Oh, and 2040? Major lulz.

That's why he did it.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:25 | 2273296 Mongo
Mongo's picture

By 2040 We will bu assimilated by stupidity and nothing will really matter.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 13:13 | 2273826 exi1ed0ne
exi1ed0ne's picture

I sure hope so. This being responsible business is starting to suck. Paid down all my debt, bought a house well within my means, no vacation in years, no toys in the yard, etc, etc. Man am I the sucker.

Something tells me that you can't go back into the cave and not see anything but shadows though. Sigh.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:26 | 2273301 SokPOTUS
SokPOTUS's picture

Does this anticipate a 2.00% 10-year Bond through 2040?  Because um, Ben can't even get there now...


Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:26 | 2273303 pods
pods's picture

I love these projections of nirvana x years out.  By the time you reach 1/2x years out the underlying conditions deteriorate so much that it will take 2x more years to get to where you wanted to be.

We are done.  No sense in struggling.  Like a Thompson's gazelle. It kicks while in the cheetahs jaws for a little bit.

Eventually it settles down to inevitability.


Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:39 | 2273386 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Correct.....even a 10 year plan is not worth the papyrus upon which it is written.....30 years, fuggitabout it. 

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:40 | 2273390 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Perhaps a substitution of Dorcas Gazelles would buy us a little time.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:32 | 2273304 ShankyS
ShankyS's picture

Sadly the sheeple will not get it till it's over. 


Can't you see the 2040 headlines now, "The USSA rises from the depths! Czar Obama balances budget in 8th term."

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 14:01 | 2274021 AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

Sadly...90% of the people in the USSA don't understand simple concepts such as the 'govt. runs a deficit'

(The deer in the headlights look follows....too dumb to know what a deficit is....too stupid and gutless to find out the answer)

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 16:23 | 2274642 r00t61
r00t61's picture

Nah, the people listen to Dr. Paul Krugman, and Darth Cheney, who claim that gov. deficits don't matter.  They then assume it's true and go back to their happy lives.  They might stop to occasionally grumble about the cost of gasoline.

Because, obviously, if they reject the claim as false, they experience ontological shock, and realize that there ain't no such thing as a free lunch, and their neat little manicured world comes a-tumblin' down all around. 

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:27 | 2273311 alexwest
alexwest's picture

liar liar pants on fire..
there wont be any USA beyond even 2030 yy.. luckily


Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:32 | 2273312 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Interesting.  So the GOP does not want to raise revenue at all (despite debt servicing obligations they already committed to and the REAL cost of creating capital - interest rate WILL rise) and they want to build their own roads, schools and infrastructure?  No need to pay police, fire, and first responders?  Awesome, they want a free-for-all.  Fine with me, fucking bring it.  At least then we get to find out precisely want everyone's labor is really worth.  More evidence that there is only one party, for the banks, by the banks.  Ron Paul is the only alternative.  Seems like the noise (a.k.a. stupidity) in this country has gotten so damn loud we can't even here the true signal.  Anyone else think politicians should be limited on how long they can campaign ahead of an election, how much they can spend, how long they can serve, as well as how long their fucking benefits last?

Have the means to fund your own private army?  You better.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:36 | 2273370 haskelslocal
haskelslocal's picture

Republicans? These guys ate the republicans and are now wolves in sheeps clothing.

How odd that the very people who cater to corporations where growth on revenue is mandatory choose to run the business they manage without convern for an income stream.

This is game theory 101. These nuts are playing the fringe trying to pull conversation off the page and away from their perpetual stupidity.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:43 | 2273409 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

precisely, all with the blessing and funding of the central banks via the rape of the taxpayer.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:18 | 2273579 Lednbrass
Lednbrass's picture

Police, fire, and first responders are functions of state and local government- they are not federal issues.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:52 | 2273731 LawsofPhysics
LawsofPhysics's picture

Right, so you are saying all states are solvent and none take any federal dollars?  FAIL!

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 01:52 | 2275948 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

WHERE do those Federal buck$ come from again?  Check your premises.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:55 | 2273743 odatruf
odatruf's picture

Every person in the USA should have the above sentence tattooed on the inside of at least one eyelids.  Every Congressman, Senator and Governor ought to have it imprinted on both.

FFS - if the feds are going to keep doing most of the state and local work, why does that spending ALWAYS go up too?  Make it stop!!!!

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:59 | 2273773 AndTheRest
AndTheRest's picture

Except for all that DHS training that turns local first responders into front line spies for the federal police state.


"Dear Missouri Terrorist Intake Fusion Center,


I was responding to a medical emergency at Lednbrass' home, which is suspiciously far back from the county owned roads I might add, and I noted some highly suspicious activity in and around the residence.  First, he seemed to own guns.  Second, I saw a symbol of right wing extremism, the Gadsden flag flying.  Third, I saw a couple of untaxed and unregistered vehicles sitting in his barn."


A SAR is issued, and an investigation is launched.  Your name is plugged into a watch list and the data bases pull all of your data for the past 10 years.  Then they start actively monitoring your telecommunications.


And so forth.  Welcome to the New World Order.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 13:00 | 2273778 TMT
TMT's picture

"Raise revenue" ... more OWS class envy speak.  Thanks but I pay enough in fucking taxes.  "Raise revenue" from the parasites who don't pay any taxes.

Go cry on Media Matters website.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 15:54 | 2274528 rayduh4life
rayduh4life's picture

TMT, no Cayman accounts avoiding UBIC? 

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 16:11 | 2274589 TMT
TMT's picture

Fine, Ray, I'll agree that some avoid taxes.  Institute a flat tax or national sales tax and that will fix the Cayman problem along with getting the parasites to chip in.  Pretty simple.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 01:51 | 2275944 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

"If Congress can employ money indefinitely to the general welfare, and are the sole and supreme judges of the general welfare, they may take the care of religion into their own hands; they may appoint teachers in every State, county and parish and pay them out of their public treasury; they may take into their own hands the education of children, establishing in like manner schools throughout the Union; they may assume the provision of the poor; they may undertake the regulation of all roads other than post-roads; in short, every thing, from the highest object of state legislation down to the most minute object of police, would be thrown under the power of Congress... Were the power of Congress to be established in the latitude contended for, it would subvert the very foundations, and transmute the very nature of the limited Government established by the people of America." - James Madison

We were warned that it would come to this, and here you are arguing for police, firemen, and Lord knows what else to be financed by the Federal Govt.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:31 | 2273339 haskelslocal
haskelslocal's picture

We all know any plan that stretches even 3 years out ALWAYS comes in over budget. 30 years out?

A true representation of morons fucking with the populus by proposing insanity.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:32 | 2273343 Fox-Scully
Fox-Scully's picture

The deficit will end long before 2040 and this is how.  The government will consfiscate all wages and dole out monthly stipends to the Sheep carefully controling the amount of money doled out versus confiscated. The monthly allowance will be known as Sheep Houshold Income Transfer--Your choice for the acronym!

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:33 | 2273353 Al Huxley
Al Huxley's picture

'Path to Prosperity'  LOL, that's a hell of a long path, maybe it should be 'the long march to prosperity'.  Seriously, I wonder if the shitty quality of the propaganda and slogans is intentional and meant to reflect the complete contempt and disdain for the general population, or just the result of untalented and incompetent copy-writers.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:43 | 2273410 juggalo1
juggalo1's picture

Slog to Prosperity?

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:49 | 2273449 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

After we're all long gone dead, they'll have this shit FIXED!

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:22 | 2273594 hidingfromhelis
hidingfromhelis's picture

Death march to prosperity?

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:34 | 2273356 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

Where's the "Banker Bonus" line item"?

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:34 | 2273361 sablya
sablya's picture

Incidentally, if someone can explain to us how US debt as a % of GDP can be declining even as the US continues to post a deficit, please advise.

Of course it is theoretically possible since Debt-to-GDP ratio is a ratio.  If Debt increases but GDP increases more then the ratio will decline.  Elementary school math, eh?

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:39 | 2273371 Global Hunter
Global Hunter's picture

Hannity and the rest of Fox News clowns will be all over this, they love this guy Paul Ryan.  He is to the GOP what Obama was to the Dems, photogenic, femine with a really good barber...but behind the mask is just another banker politician.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 02:41 | 2275973 Harbanger
Harbanger's picture

Just another banker politician? I can tell you're a Lib because they always dismiss The Tea Party movement.  They're all the same is the typical diversion from a lefty.  FYI- The TP made the Repubs win in 2010 for 1 sole reason.  To put the brakes on Obama's march to ever more European style socialism.   keynesian economics = failed socialism.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:36 | 2273374 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

By 2040 the reeducation of the masses will have been completed and a time when the economy was not fueled by deficit spending, theft, and corruption will not be known.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:37 | 2273377 DavidJ
DavidJ's picture

"Incidentally, if someone can explain to us how US debt as a % of GDP can be declining even as the US continues to post a deficit, please advise."


Start of Year 1:

GDP: 100 Trillion

Debt: 30 Trillion

DEBT = 30% of GDP

End of Year 1

GDP:  105 Trillion  (5% growth)

Debt: 31 Trillion (Year 1 deficit of 1 Trillion)

DEBT = 29.5% of GDP -  Thus a decline of debt as a percentage of GDP



Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:39 | 2273385 wcvarones
wcvarones's picture

Plus you don't need real GDP growth, just nominal! 

If Zimbabwe Ben prints us up another trillion and causes 5% CPI inflation, he's just increased GDP 5%!

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:41 | 2273394 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

So why is he not doing it then?

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:44 | 2273414 wcvarones
wcvarones's picture

Jesus Christ, give the guy a 15 minute bathroom break from printing!

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:46 | 2273432 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

OH ok...he just needs a rest....I see.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:55 | 2273748 my puppy for prez
my puppy for prez's picture

I didn"t know that SD1 was Jesus Christ!

He is both The Shepard AND the Sheep.....a true miracle!

All glory to SD1, thus sayeth wcvarones....praise be to SD1....


Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:58 | 2273489 Hansel
Hansel's picture

In reality it can't happen.  Your scenario didn't factor in the juice running on the $30 trillion... unless you think this magic economy is going run a balanced budget minus interest expense (because a $1 trillion deficit on $30 trillion of debt is basically just interest expense).  As long as you run a deficit, the juice on all prior deficits continues accumulating too.  Try running your example with debt equal to 100% of GDP at the start; you won't get anywhere.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 14:14 | 2274073 Matt
Matt's picture

If the Fed holds 100 percent of the debt, then all of the interest payments from one year are simply revenue for the next one.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:40 | 2273391 Philidor
Philidor's picture

It is possible for the ratio of debt to GDP to decline while running a deficit, this happens when the denominator (GDP) grows faster than the numerator.  All we have to do is to grow the economy at about 15%...

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:52 | 2273464 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Looks like it's time to ramp up our exportation of misery and violence.

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 01:59 | 2275954 StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

There's STILL lots of dark people that don't have drones monitoring their every move -- Hellfire missiles for all!

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:42 | 2273400 New American Re...
New American Revolution's picture

Ahhhh,... fresh bullshit, and just in time for spring planting.    Congradulations Congressman Ryan, if you're the great conservative hope in Congress and the voice of the people, I'm sure we're all screwed.   Hey, did you manage to take care of the tax advantages of owning oil and gas wells in Oklahoma like those you and your wife own.   Hey, if you can't become a millionaire being a member of Congress, you've got to be a sucker, RIGHT?   Isn't that what Senator Kerr of Oklahoma said?   Goddamn right he did, and you're wearing the same stripe down the middle of your back and you smell just as bad as the worst democrat that sits across the aisle from you.

God help America, but we've got to clean out that entire rats nest of you that inhabit Congress today, it's all to clear that this is the only way out for America.   It's our only chance.

Go to and empower all Americans to take back Congress on November 6th, 2012.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:45 | 2273423 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

'Randy, its like I always tell you....what do you get when you plant shit seeds'?

'Shit weeds, Mr Lahey'?

'Thats right Randy Bobandy....shit weeds'.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:47 | 2273431 zot23
zot23's picture

The horror of our two party sham. 


Democrats want to raise taxes to fair levels for rich, white folks.  Great, except the extra funds will never go to infrastructure, medicare, shoring up safety nets, etc.  It goes straight into the glory hole of Iraq, Afghanistan, and general govt waste.


Republicans want to slash spending to curb govt abuses (and ensure we do so by cutting taxes.)  Again, sounds great until you realize that rich, white folks will get their taxes cut and somehow spending will never decline.  


 Heads I win, tails you lose for the rest of us.  Anyone wonder why so many people shrug as we watch this system burn itself tot he ground?

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:49 | 2273447 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

I can't imagine this thing, as we know it, can hold up even 5 more years, maybe 3 years but at least Ryan has a shitty budget. The other cocksuckers can't even present one

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:50 | 2273454 stirners_ghost
stirners_ghost's picture

Some of you still feel some kind of obligation to keep the extortion racket going, to make it sustainable. Weird.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:51 | 2273458 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Hey assholes try to make an economic prediction that will take place sometime within our LIFETIMES you shitapples!

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:12 | 2273552 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Prediction for our lifetime: We are so screwed.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:51 | 2273459 justsayin2u
justsayin2u's picture

Too optomistic

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 11:56 | 2273478 847328_3527
847328_3527's picture

"Hi ho, Hi ho, off to printing we la la la....."

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:01 | 2273498 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

2040?? LSD-induced optimism obviously.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:01 | 2273502 Sour Grapes
Sour Grapes's picture

More faith based budgeting from the Republicans.  Tax cuts = higher revenues, and high growth rates forever.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 13:03 | 2273795 TMT
TMT's picture

I assume you believe giving more of our hard earned money to the government is the answer?  Unreal.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:06 | 2273521 Blue Horshoe Lo...
Blue Horshoe Loves Annacott Steel's picture

TAKE THAT Europe.  We're getting our house in order!

Yeah baby.  Fiscal sanity here we come!

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:06 | 2273522 T-roll
T-roll's picture

I love these "projections".  I'd like to see what a budget projection from 1970 looked like for 2012.  I'd say it would be off by several trillion dollars.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:06 | 2273523 gatorengineer
gatorengineer's picture

Ok, the Republicans put forward a "Plan" maybe be unrealistic and unattainable, but at least its something on the table.  Where is the one from Obama..... Just sayin.....

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 14:11 | 2274066 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

Yer jus a sayin WHAT exactly, that you now wish to have two utter piles of bullshit placed before you???? Is that it.


WHy do you bother giving one "side" a pass just becasue they placed a pile of shit before you and the other did not.

Given that you CAN'T cut the spending without whacking the GDP as well, you are not getting there from here.


There is NO PLAN that your fellow crap eaters will vote for.

Smell it , do ya now.


Tue, 03/20/2012 - 14:25 | 2274120 Matt
Matt's picture

It is totally possible to cut government spending without harming GDP; in fact, you can cut spending and INCREASE GDP! All you have to do is redefine GDP. Balk as you will, but if Inflation can be redefined every 10 years to suit needs, why not GDP as well?

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:09 | 2273538 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

The deficit can decline as a percentage of the GDP if the economy is growing faster than the growth of government.

Except it hasn't happened since 1981... so good luck with that.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:10 | 2273545 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Predictions beyond 10 years mean nothing. In 2000 it was predicted the US would have eliminated its national debt by now, what happened to that? (That's a rhetorical question btw) Personally I think predicting beyond 2-3 years is BS.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:15 | 2273564 j.tennquist
j.tennquist's picture

Let's see, in 2040 I will be 84 years old (and ostensibly collecting that windfall known as SSI)

I wonder if discount dog food will taste any better by then ?

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:37 | 2273657 NEOSERF
NEOSERF's picture

Probably not but you can count on your taste buds being gone...thankfully

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:36 | 2273653 irie1029
irie1029's picture

Sad thing is this is what our elected officials feel is a plan.... Waht a joke.  

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:38 | 2273661 random thoughts
random thoughts's picture

Actually, lolMAO500, your argument is typically Maoist.  If you'd read the actual history, you'd see that the economy has grown faster than federal spending on a number of occasions since 1981.  For instance, in 1984 the economy grew 7.2% while ACTUAL nominal federal spending grew 5.3%.  This has happened many times since, especially during the late 1990s. 

Regarding the Ryan budget generally, which would people rather have:

1.  A Senate budget which does not exist?

2.  The President's budget which increases spending even further than the baseline agreed to last year?

3.  The Ryan budget which at least starts the trajectory down? 

I can't understand how people can be so negative about BOTH our large deficits AND the only budget that tries to attack the deficits. The one group truly worthy of contempt is the Senate leadership, which is breaking the law by not even bothering to propose a budget.  You can't have "compromise" when only one party comes to the table.

Other point is that the situation is by no means hopeless, though folks like lolMAO would want you to think so.  Check, for instance, what happens if we rais the retirement age a couple of years.  Medicare fraud is in excess of 20%, private credit card company is les than 1%.  What if the government really did get serious about eliminating "waste, fraud and abuse"?  There are many many solutions.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:43 | 2273683 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Well it's the first time I've been called a maoist, thanks for that. :)

random thoughts, you are caught in the your side is evil but my side is not that bad type of failed argument. You cannot win. Both parties are a joke. Both parties are lying.

None of that will get done. Even if Ryan's plan were enacted, (which it won't) it's still not enough.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 13:31 | 2273901 random thoughts
random thoughts's picture

I agree!

But still, "not enough" is better than "nothing at all".  The problems CAN be solved.

Sorry about that Maoist stuff, I was frustrated!

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 14:19 | 2274082 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

You wave your magic capitalist wand and get rid of the last 30 years(charitable) of waste and mis-education and piles of debt both pub and private along with the PROMISES of more in the coming "out years" and then you can run your solutions fantasy and have a chance not to get laughed out of the building by those of us who have been around longer than the last 30 years.


When you grow up you will find that there are some actions that can't be undone by wishes and skittles.




One man's fraud is anothers' profit margin.

SO you wish to spend more and make gvt bigger to rein in the fraud is that it.

Do you know that for the last 60 years, I have heard we were running a war on something, fraud included.


Welp, sonny fraud for the fukin WIN!



Tue, 03/20/2012 - 13:21 | 2273843 jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

Actually American has been in physical economic decline sine 1968, thus all you are doing is falling for fake numbers (yes they faked them in the 80's).  We were failing in the 80's.  Maybe YOU weren't.  But AMERICA'S physical economy was.  Which is what matters, not the fake statstics that everyone has run with for decades to fool themselves that America is prosperous.  Nope.  The 80's were not prosperous.

When your debt is fraud, you don't pay it back like a fucking retard. You cancel it, as the fraud it is.  How hard is it to figure this point out? We've been defrauded.  The system is setup to perpetuate the fraud.  Yet we don't want to call it fraud, nor change the setup.  Are people really this dumb?


Why do people continue to view America's economy through the lens of an anti-american British Monetarist, sucking up every bit of statistical sophistry to accept the goalseeked 'reality' presented to us by everyone around us? 

Still being fooled by the worthless metrics? Obviously.  Because even in the 80's the books were cooked.


America's economy has only been rising NOMINALLY since 1968.  Sure some bs has grown, but the physical economy, not worthless paper economy has only decreased.


The economy in the 80's sucked big balls.  Yet people still look at it like it was so great.  But that was just a fantasy, that only a few shared, and overall was horrible.  Sorry if I don't want to repeat some people's fantasies, and want to focus on the real.  Sure the numbers are more fucked up and the dogma more thick then it was in the 80's, but we were already far off the reservation. 

What I would rather have is instead a bunch of bullshit based in fantasy which is what Paul Ryan's (and Obama's) dogmatic MONETARY ideologies, because BOTH are MONETARISTS, I'd like to go back to the American way of things, that most Americans have no clue about, because they've never experienced it.  Which means both have foreign, anti-american to the core economic ideologies, and sadly most think British Monetarism and equate that with America's rightful economic system.  Sorry, that's a fact.

So instead of going down the path of bullshit, like Obama and Paul Ryan represent in full, how about getting back to the REAL American form of economy?  That's what I'd rather want.  The rest of you are doing nothing more than arguing over Snooki, the Wall Street version. 

You offer no solution, just more dogma, which as all the other dogma, will fail, just like it always has, except they fooled you. 

Glass-Steagall or collapse

American Credit System or collapse

Ditch Monetarism as the anti-american economic system that allows the banksters the ability to do all this (because they've told us they need their hands on these levers) to us or we'll suffer a collapse. 


Paul Ryan is a fucktard

Obama is a fucktard

Both are monetarists.  Go figure. 


You aren't going to find a single solution from Barack Ryan, the monetarist.  What exactly is the difference between the two? They're both idiot monetarists.


How can people not see it, it's been obvious we've been in nothing but decline my whole life, only in the 90's did they pull enough wool to make the majority of people sheep like enough to believe we were expanding, but even in the 90's, things were still collapsing.  Stop and smell the roses. 



Tue, 03/20/2012 - 14:32 | 2274159 crawldaddy
crawldaddy's picture

Ryan is a JOKE,  TOTAL JOKE.  You cant even begin to be serious about deficit reduction without also talking about major cuts to our bloated and ridiculous Pentagon budget, which he doesnt do.


The guy is a joke, the worst kind, the unfunny variety.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:40 | 2273675 adr
adr's picture

At least he proposed a budget.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 14:22 | 2274108 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

No, he told you a fairy tale.


If you live on the type of budget he proposed you and your family would be in a homeless shelter without  a doubt.


That's a responsible budget? Really?


Ok, I grant all people a free pass to heaven where all budgets are balanced , just wait for 40 years to see it come true.


bullshit so deep , unreal.


Tue, 03/20/2012 - 12:50 | 2273721 jmc8888
jmc8888's picture

Paul Ryan, again, doesn't know dick about the economy. 

Monetarism, it's got what oligarchs crave. 



American Credit System



Tue, 03/20/2012 - 13:01 | 2273741 AndTheRest
AndTheRest's picture



Just in time for whites in America to be less than 50% of the population?  Yea, those hard working, productive non-whites are going to carry us forward into the future!  GDP and productivity will surge, just like it has in Mexico, Haiiti, Guatemala, El Salvador, and the other glorious international powers from which these immigrants come to us.


A new American golden age is just around the corner!

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 13:21 | 2273865 Bob Sacamano
Bob Sacamano's picture

Congress just needs to vote for one of the only two budgets presented.  The Obama budget or the Ryan budget.  No amendments or changes -- just choose one. 


Tue, 03/20/2012 - 14:26 | 2274125 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

No actually congress if it gave a shit needs to do it's job and come up with a budget that cuts spending now.

SInce ryan budget is a failure and obeyme has failed then congress needs to step up and create something of substance.


Just because ryan the retard and obeyme the fool can't do the job doesn't/shouldn't mean you lemming off the cliff with your nose up their ass.

Of course that's amerika now crack sniffing debt junkies.

sad bunch.


Tue, 03/20/2012 - 16:16 | 2274611 Shock and Aweful
Shock and Aweful's picture

This guy's a fucking huckster...

He "projects" out 30 years and then tells you how wonderful it is gonna be...if we can just get there.

Tell me how in the fuck any of these idiots - repub or dem have any idea what the finances of the United States are going to look like in 30 years...or 20...or 10...or even next year.  These projections never take into account the unseen forces that operate and affect the real anytime you hear anyone talking about economic projections....tune them the fuck out.

You want to know how big of a joke these type of projections are? 

Look back to the CBO's "projections" for 2010...that were made in 2000.  

They said we would have huge annual surpluses and be completely out of debt.....hahahaha 

Anyone here really think this "plan" is going to end up any more accurate than any of the other 10-20-30 year plans that have been proposed or enacted in the past 50 years?  

All any of you need to know is that the dems and reps are nothing more than two sides of the same, giant corporate-owned coin - 

NEITHER ONE will offer or suggest a real solution.....

And the only real solution would be to have the Treasury print a 15 trillion dollar "treasury note"...which is interest free.... and have the president personally take it to Ben Bernanke and pay off the debt that we owe the federal reserve.  Then, he can tell mr bernanke to kindly go fuck himself and that the american people consider all our debts paid now....and that from this day forward, we have decided to make and coin our own, debt-free money.   hahaha

Seriously, anything short of that is nothing more than window dressing or a complete sack of shit.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 16:17 | 2274612 Shock and Aweful
Shock and Aweful's picture

This guy's a fucking huckster...

He "projects" out 30 years and then tells you how wonderful it is gonna be...if we can just get there.

Tell me how in the fuck any of these idiots - repub or dem have any idea what the finances of the United States are going to look like in 30 years...or 20...or 10...or even next year.  These projections never take into account the unseen forces that operate and affect the real anytime you hear anyone talking about economic projections....tune them the fuck out.

You want to know how big of a joke these type of projections are? 

Look back to the CBO's "projections" for 2010...that were made in 2000.  

They said we would have huge annual surpluses and be completely out of debt.....hahahaha 

Anyone here really think this "plan" is going to end up any more accurate than any of the other 10-20-30 year plans that have been proposed or enacted in the past 50 years?  

All any of you need to know is that the dems and reps are nothing more than two sides of the same, giant corporate-owned coin - 

NEITHER ONE will offer or suggest a real solution.....

And the only real solution would be to have the Treasury print a 15 trillion dollar "treasury note"...which is interest free.... and have the president personally take it to Ben Bernanke and pay off the debt that we owe the federal reserve.  Then, he can tell mr bernanke to kindly go fuck himself and that the american people consider all our debts paid now....and that from this day forward, we have decided to make and coin our own, debt-free money.   hahaha

Seriously, anything short of that is nothing more than window dressing or a complete sack of shit.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 19:08 | 2275022 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

The answer is not blowing in the wind. It is not Ryans war to fight. It is a willingness to accept that spending more than we get in from taxes makes us broke.

look at page 49 of the report (67 in pdf) and comapre it with page 85 (113 in the pdf). 2.5 trillion revenue, that is something like 16% of GDP, compared to 3.5 trillion in spending. taxes should not be increased. they are what is affordable.

There are two mandatory outcomes. one is to to repay debt, so the economy can grow without the millstone of paranoia about debt servicing at a fair rate of interest (say 4% Fed funds rate for a 2% inflation 2% gdp growth economy as a good outcome), the other is to structure spending so that it is in balance with taxes. 

Expenditures need to immediately reduced by 1 trillion dollars a year out of 3.5 trillion, a fall of 1/3 across the board, just to stand still. This addresses the second part. The 15 trillion in debt needs to be repaid over a lenght of time that makes it bearable. I think it has taken 30 years to get into this mess and I think the country can stand taking the same time to get out of it. that means either a special debt reduction tax or an increased reduction in spending from 1 trillion a year to 1.5 trillion a year. 

these are not options. these are mandatory and are required now, the longer the delay the more the pain in later years. running deficits for another ten years makes the solution (anarchy, rebellion and social behavior of general pissed offedness) odious.

spending needs to be cut by 40% with allowance made for second order effects as they occur from this volte face from bad to good behavior. say a 50% cut, with no drop in taxes. greece had to make do with something like 25% cuts as did ireland. america is far worse off.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 21:47 | 2275548 xtop23
xtop23's picture

Our no growth, stagnating, limp along economy is going to make Japan's "lost decade" look like a single footnote in a novel the size of War and Peace.

And unfortunately, that is a BEST case scenario.

Certainly better than WW3 trying to defend the petrodollar, but seriously, can't we just pull an Iceland and boot these banking asshats out, take our lumps, and start over?


Wed, 03/21/2012 - 00:55 | 2275863 StockMarketBott...'s picture

Waiting for Stock Market Bottom Bad Strategy

Wed, 03/21/2012 - 06:56 | 2276131 cnhedge
cnhedge's picture

this deficit is still unachievable.


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