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Samaras Pledges To "Renegotiate" Bailout Pact After April Elections
If there was one thing the Troika needed not to hear less than 24 hours after the latest bailout demand vote passed, it is that the leader of Greek ill-named "New Democracy" party who is likely to replace Papademos as the next leader of Greece following the April elections, is that at best the new "deal" will last for two months, or until after the next local election. Needless to say, this it the only "pledge" out of Greece in the past week that is 100% certain to be kept. From The Guardian: "Samaras, the current front-runner to replace Lucas Papademos, told parliament last night: "I ask you to vote in favour of the new loan agreement today and to have the ability to negotiate and change the current policy which has been forced on us"." While hardly surprising, Guardian goes on to point out "that would rather thwart the Troika's demands that Greece's leaders all pledge to implement the current plan, as Megan Greene of Roubini Economics pointed out on Twitter: 'Samaras demands bailout be renegotiated after elections and troika insists he sign that he'll uphold 2nd bailout. We still have a problem.'" Indeed - it is called Merkel seeks guarantees that what the next Greek leader said is a joke before it agrees to send even more billions in taxpayer cash down what Schauble earlier called a "bottomless pit."
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LOL!
That will go down well with the Germans, not...
I'm not sure why the greeks continue to play as if they have any cards in their hands.
the ECB can always print and hand it directly to the banks...why even include the greasy, lazy greeks in the loop?
Beware
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wYoLQc-x5g
That would be Germany. They will abandon the euro (not the EU) if the ECB prints like the Bernank. Scylla and Charibdas, I say.
Other than the reaction of the other PIIGS, a fear of Weimar & the EU breaking up, I can't think of a reason.
First of all Greeks defaulted and the deal wont be accepted, just moves on chessboard to find excuses. Secondly if Greeks are greasy, lazy..... you are not far behind them with 46 mln on food stamps, and half of population working in greasy fast food outlets, the rest are thinking they're on top of the world preparing CDS's, CDO's and lending freshly printed money to charge interest on nothing.
Like most of the Sheeple, everywhere, they just won't get it until the street lights go out, and the neighbors start coming for thier stuff. Imagine what will happen in California on the day the EBT/SNAP cards start declining...
To take that a step further.. why didnt the Banks.. get the Loans.. in secret... and mmake the loans to the Government.. in secret... like they have for the last couple of hundred years?
Why is this information in the public view now?
Why is this information being made public?
It does not help the Nation?
It only causes drama or violence.
SO! WHY IS THIS PROCESS THAT HAS BEEN TRANSACTED IN PRIVATE FOR HUNDREDS OF YEARS NOW BEING HANDLE IN PUBLIC? WHEN THE REACTION IS KNOWN TO BE VIOLENT?
Everyone is ignoring the most important fact of ALL!
Why are the sheep being allowed to upset themselves around the World?
It is almost like someone wants the World in an uproar!
RAWR! BITCHES!!
Beware of Greeks bearing gifts to bankers :-)
Greek: Here's a gift from me to you!
Banker: A bottle?
Greek: NOT JUST ANY BOTTLE!! Please, let my light it for you...
Banker: so now.... it's a bottle that serves as a torch?
Greek: Yeah.... sure.... OEPS! I forget something in my car! I'll be right back! See Ya!
.....
WE PROMISE THAT WE CAN'T PROMISE YOU ANYTHING!
That saying about not trusting Greeks bearing gifts should be changed to DON'T TRUST GREEKS PERIOD!! The sooner these people are given the boot form the EMU the better everyone else will be. DUMP 'EM!
Why does Merkel have to care about German taxpayers' money? It's not her own money after all.
Well I'd lend them money, why not?
In fact I was just about to load up on a few GGB's myself...
If it's good enough for my pension fund, it's good enough for me...
Samaras, get elected with a sound majority and propose some tough bargaining positions
I think the public opinion may have shifted after the vote. Perhaps LAOS will be the biggest winner in the next election.
Elections don't matter. Remember Ireland?
who?
Greece has NOTHING to bargain with! They don't have anything to offer.
The sole issue is whether German and other banks have to take losses. Greece is behaving like a junkie in this process.
Ideally, greece would be cut loose and left to rot and the banks that lent them money would take losses and those banks' executives would be tried and incarcerated. Absent that, the ECB should just print and give the money directly to the banks to close up the accounting holes left by greece and enforce no bonuses paid rules on the money. And greece should be expelled from the EU.
People act like the drachma is their savior; the drachma is a piece of shit that is worthless. Austerity is coming whether the lazy greeks want it or not. Their days of spendthriftiness while lounging in cafes are over.
Germans and French buying time to ring fence their banks for the upcoming default, end of story...
'Austerity is coming whether the lazy greeks want it or not. Their days of spendthriftiness while lounging in cafes are over.'
You seem to repeat this as if you wish to either convince yourself or others of this nonsense. Hopefully you're at least getting paid.
Lastly, I absolutely love this sad 'productivity' meme emerging from the US. This pathetic obsession with being "productive" backed by idiotic Protestant ethics. And where has it led you? Foxconn? The walls are closing in on you, that much is obvious. What an incredibly horrid creature you are. Mom should've swallowed.
Let me guess, "productive", "pillar", "strength" are not words used by you and your relatives.
What really gets me is the "Honest day's work" or "The working man" memes...
Honest day's work you say? While you're busying working hard to be honest, others are barely working to enslave you.
Exhibit A: Early America
It takes more than a hard work ethic to build a lasting civilization and to stay free. It's childish to think otherwise.
Greece has nothing to bargain with? They could say go to hell and let the banks eat their bad loans. They could take the lead from Iceland. Last I read Iceland wasn't feeling too bad about their decision. This isn't a bailout of Greece. It's a bailout of the banks who lent Greece all that money. It isn't a bailout of the Greek people. It's a bailout of the elitist criminal banking cartel. I bet if Greece walks from their loans and is left to "rot" that they will have a great headstart on the rest of the world which will soon be following in their footsteps.
Ya you know, just mass riots and havoc for a few years, no big deal.
Remind me how Argentina did after their hard default?
Iceland is a joke of a country, you cant possibly extend what some 300k people did or didn't do onto a nation of Greeks, which by the way, actually love being at war.
More morons sent to torment me.
Mass riots and havoc for a few years? Maybe.
Take the deal and you have ..umm mass riots and poverty for sure for a few years.
Default and let the assholes who created this mess in the first place suffer.
PRICELESS!! At least they would go to bed with the satisfaction of starting to fix the worlds problems.
The greeks, and the rest of us, are going to suffer no matter what. Why let the bankers off the hook? Actually, they will be let off the hook. They should be in jail and not in charge of negotiating the solution to the problem they caused.
Trav,
Oh yes they do. They are the beta test case for Portugal, Spain, Italy, et al. That's why ECB is spending so much effort on them. I personally agree with you, cut 'em loose, I'm tired of hearing about making a bankrupt country try to be responsible when they clearly aren't interested.
Of course the Greeks are facing austerity in any case. The question is: what comes after the austerity?
It's coming to neighborhood of yours too, still it's better to spend 5$ on coffee in cafes than to smoke crack in your basement for 500$ you've never earned.
AMEN to that!
Long printer ink and machine roller lubricating oil.
Guarantees? Supposedly Merkel studied physics yet she is looking for certainty... from angry Greeks no less.
Knowledge in the ways of physics, does not preclude political stupidity and its thirst for greed and power.
It's pretty clear to Merkel, the EU finance ministers, and private debt holders that Greek politicians can be relied on to reneg on whatever promises of austerity they make while begging others to cover their budget shortfall. Greek involvement in 'negotiations' at this point is irrelevent. Their creditors are simply maneuvering to distrbitute losses among themselves before pulling the plug.
Samaras could probably buy a small amount of additional time before that occurs simply by keeping his mouth shut. But the pandering gene is strong in that one. He's telling his people what they want to hear at the expense of getting them what they want (German tax dollars).
I thought this agreement was designed to be pretty binding and airtight because nobody trusts Greece anymore. I think his electoral base is being eroded to the point he is becoming delusional.
RESHUFFLE!
You cant make this stuff up! But the HFT's just keep on buying - until the rug gets pulled. It does feel like the rally is in the 9th inning. Looking forward to GDP numbers on Wed.
But...but, I thought Greece wasn't a problem. You know, it's 0.00002% of the Europe's GDP. It's a gnat bite on an elephant's arse.
Well, that's what I was told, anyway.
Actually, Greece it's industry is vital for the rest of Europe.
They supply 50% of the olive industry, and as we all know : You can't have coctail hour without olives.
And without coctail hour... what would we do during the day? Those.... would become long.... very long working days....
Greece will get the money. Germany will approve it. Markets will celebrate. People will not.
Until the next round, an at some point they will not be able to kick the can any further. And then everything will come crashing down.
Latest greek deal was nothing more than pure desperation to stop the CDS trigger which will bring the global ponzi down.
Better start printing the 'X' Trillion needed to prevent contagaion for a whole month or two - I have heard it will need 30 trillion to stop a immediate collapse of all debtor countries when greek finally defaults, but who knows anymore?!
How do you say "epic LOL" in greek?
<greek>epic LOL</greek>
Meh. Doesn't work yet
ha, ha, ha, ha.
Greek Oligarchs love tarama salad, a dish no Schauble can make or stomach! Bottomless pit of Hades, Not even Stasi land was that crooked! Merkozy now hamstrung; oh, to pay or not to pay, that is ze kestion!
What says comrade Juncker, Prince of Luxembourg? Uber Euro watchdog, Cerberus to its white-washed stash of Luxembourg banked cash underworld?
It is impossible to go into an Election already committed to a policy agreed between all major parties and opposed by the Voters.......unless you are British where ALL the parties agree not to mention a) EU b) Immigration c) Taxes d) Accountability
Then you get a system where noone wanted any of the parties to form a Government and two got together to subvert democracy
Let me fuck you first - then we can "negotiate" if we should have used a condom.
let's see here...the greeks took a decade worth of money they never intended to pay back and THEY are the ones that got screwed?
You bet. Greece would have never been able to borrow that much (just like sub prime in the US) without magic CDS that makes unlimited guarantees backed by little or nothing.
This is what happens when you remove moral hazard - you get huge market distortions and everyone loses in the end.
WHAT?
CDS had absolutely ZERO effect on net Greek borrowing. What the banks do behind closed doors with other counterparties is a completely different issue. Greece was able to borrow because the whole civilized world was on a spending spree of easy money and uber cheap credit. Subprime was the beginning of the domino chain collapsing... notice Greece actually went through all of 2008 unscathed from the GFC and only got shut out from debt markets in late 09 early 2010.
Hows this for moral hazard: give Greeks money, bail them out, even after similar countries like Ire, Spa, Por already implemented harsh austerity, and expect those same countries to NOT lash out and require the same treatment Greece got.
seems to me the entire game worldwide IS about the CDS - without this guarantee system the loan would be left to analyze its intrinsic worth only -
wasnt the real decision upfront to get the politician (and show the politician how to) to fake the national accounting - put loans in place with good enough spreads to get AAA and layoff the risk on CDS and take the difference in income versus cost - as a win and get a bonus for a portion of the play?
without the CDS the whole program would have warranted more scrutiny and therefore less volume of debt and probably reduced the problem to manageable leveltoday
dont you agree that this whole drama is to save the banks on redeemption on the CDS? why bother otherwise?
CDS exposure is negligible when talking about gross numbers, and netted out, even less 'horrific' as some media outlets would like to put it.
The intertwined financial systems, and the fact that FRA and GER hold too much GRE debt (read: GGBs) are what makes this thing the clusterfuck its been the last 2 years. Nobody cares if a trader will lose his fucking bonus cause he's short Gre via CDS, and not even if a whole desk's profits are wiped out because they sold CDS and then have to deliver the bonds/cash when it triggers. Its all about the bonds.
Not quite. They were in fact lent money without any thought given to their ability to repay.
Yes, they did at the advice of GS and other great banks to build something which supposedly should bring unbelievable riches to that land. Now all those great advisers will take over those things for pennies on the dollar enhancing earnings of big american and European banks. But little herder somewhere in in the mountains will pay for it for the next 50 years. Yes they are screwed, not the big guys but the little ones.
don't tell me anybody is really surprised here...
Oh, the euro.
There's never a motivation for any country to stick to any agreement on limiting spending. The Greeks still don't even have an accurate accounting of cash outflows in a year. They keep "discovering" more promises they've made to people to backstop loans. They're going to have to default in some fashion.
IN GREECE THERE IS REVOLUTION GOING ON NOW.
A REVOLUTION WHICH IS QUIET, PERSISTIVE, AND DETERMINED.
THE RESULT IS EXPLOSIVE.
There was looting, from HOODIES and HOODIED ILLEGAL IMMIGRANTS, there was Banks Burning. Most of the Big Buildings were Banks (Marfin, Eurobank, Alpha Bank, Bank of Greece), Starbucks, and some "collateral damages"
It is the so called "COLLATERAL DAMAGE"
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-XhZetMzZQx8/TzkGmva369I/AAAAAAAAymo/DsyTgzGdT1...
this is a picture from www.eglimatikotita.gr of a hindered Greek man who is demonstrating on his special chair
The rebelling class is the middle-micro-middle class.
This middle class isn't going to vote for Samaras for one and only reason (very important though):
In Greece the Memorandum's System (MNHMONIO) penaltizes ownership through HEAVY taxes in an experiment of the eurocratic transition to the totalitarian model (feudal - communist-buerocratic)
EU IS EUSSR
Samaras's party has lost it's "populistic" "nationalistic" ALLURE and is now TOTALLY occupied by the NEOLIBERALS-NEOCONS and GLOBALISTS FRACTION.
Everything is "neo". There is nothing here that is new, only recyled and built upon.
Greece needs to get it's act together or cease being viewed as a viable country.
Is there a Greek underclass of educated unemployed starving youth who see what is happening to their country ? What good does burning buildings down do? Shouldn't they be murdering their sell out leaders in the quiet of night one after the other ? The best message they can send is a photo of pompadickhead dangling be his ankles mutilated with a message attached to the nub where his head once was.. if they really love their country.
When you have a collective IQ in the 45 -66.5 range, you burn buildings. When your collective IQ is in the 66.6 - 84 range, you kill your leaders. Once your collective IQ reaches 85 or above, you start to try to solve your problems.
Nobody in Greece knows if these hoodies are anarchists or if there are agent provocateurs or even foreign agents among them.
This is going on for several years.
For instance, illegal immigrants looted a weapon shop in Down Town Athens yesterday.
Once the police arrested 500 people, they were all from the anarcho-leftist side.
During December 08 lot of afghan, albanians, magrebians were arrested for looting.
But yesterday about 200.000 people were demonstrating with absolute no violence.
It's about 500, 1000, 2.000 who make this mess. Among them lots of "intruders with suspicious intentions, malware..."
If you have a collective IQ below 45 you worry about agent Provocateurs making you look bad...
It should not be only the Greeks protesting over this, it should also be the people of the nations whose funds go into the IMF and the ECB which are now being given to the banks via Greece.
You pretend to lend to us and we pretend to pay you back.
And we'll pretend your still welcome in the club
And we all pretend that what is 'loaned' and 'repaid' is actually worth something.
They can't do that, they have to agree with something they don't have a say in; we will all have to be debt slaves. Long live the PhD money printers.
//sarc
That renegotiate is not gonna come. Poker play. Ritual in election time. It's like all the other supposed Black Swans that would kill the euro, but that flew away even before arrival (True Finns, Slovaks, German Elections, Geert Wilders, Finnish bailout conditions -- remember?). The euro is saved, markets rally, the fear of an acute crisis and collapse, as in 2011, has disappeared. Yes folks, the euro still exists and will continue to do so. Told you so, many many times. BTW: how about the British pound?
read my take on "Age of financial Inquistion" before you have your next turkey lunch. The fight to save euro is not over even if the NWO is pulling out all the stops. Brandy goes fine with a well cooked gandery goose cooked in its juice.
The central problem is that both the austerity and the debt are unsustainable. Every thing else is theoretical bullshit.
I have said it in previous posts and I always say it until proven incorrect.
THERE IS STH ELSE GOING ON IRRELEVANT TO GREECE'S SITUATION.
Iran????
What else could a politician say? Listen to what I say, don't watch what I do.
And despite all this, Bernanke wakes up the this morning, checks the scoreboard.....and smiles.
Oh, I see, silly Google mistranslated the name of the party.
It pays to know with whom you are actually negotiating.
The real name isn't New Democracy, it's:
Noodling Democracy
what the hell is that?
OMG! it's frauMerkel!
she's been egged!
those banksters are more fun than a barrel0'finiMinis!
"geece" agreeZ to renegotiate, BiCheZ!
who coulda knowed?
... regarding new rescue programmes, Germany demands written statements (personally signed) from all Greek party leaders. Imagine Samaras telling the public "ehrrrm, that was last month's statement, here is my new one". Bizarre.
You forget the key variable. Why did the Irish play ball and assume all the bank debt ?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Sutherland
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/news/peteroborne/100065188/after-irelands-f...
Now go see which Greek politicians need a helping hand to find the right international sinecure or directorship and which bankers need to float their boat
It is Self Interest vs Public Interest
Before Greece gets a complete write off they have to agree to austerity so this all won't happen again. When DBag does this kind of thing, he calls into question the austerity that would make a default/restructure/forgiveness within the Eurozone possible. No one is going to just forgive Greece as long as they keep spending. No one will trust them to stop spending if they keep breaking deals.
I suppose this is the clincher for me. Greece will have a messy default when everyone throws in the towell on them. They act too much like American bankers.
The New Democracy party is great. Much better than the Same Old S*** party. Don't trust those guys.
y'all idiots.......ho ho
you dont understand the separation between private and public sector in Greece.....
if you understand that the public sector is being run by the communist party it 'll be easier to comprehend what goes down...
Greece is 12m people out of which 3m is the private sector, 1m is the public sector and the rest 8m are inactive....
realize that only 3m people of the private sector produce wealth for all the rest......
realize that 1m public sector as well as the rest 8m produce nothing
realize that out of the 1m public servants only 350 thousand are needed the rest are getting paid just to vote for the next election as well as all kinds of illegal activity
realize that the public sector is an organized crime mafia group organized in such a way as to blood suck hard working people's money both European and the local private sector......if you undarstand that you d be on your way to understand what goes down
Zoot Alors! The French stock market is already down on the great news of the latest Greek bailout. Plus ca change, plus le meme chose.
Good article from Spiegel on Soros thinking about crisis, Merkel, Schäuble, Keynes (yep Soros talked about JMK!). The interviewers even accused George of 'talking his book'. I am surprised this article slipped from Tyler's grasp frankly. Judge for yourselves..........
http://www.spiegel.de/international/europe/0,1518,814920,00.html
Aaah, yes. I've heard this song before. If Germany or whoever decides to make an issue of this then it will be an issue; but if not, expect to see the talk of renegotiation turn out to be a bucket of steam.