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Update: The San Fran Fed Asks What People Think Of QE3: The People Respond

Tyler Durden's picture




 

On Friday, the San Francisco Fed, best known for such cutting edge research as "Why Is Unemployment Duration So Long?" (turns out it was Bernanke's fault), "US Household Deleveraging" which concluded incorrectly that "Going forward, it seems probable that many U.S. households will reduce their debt" (turns out completely wrong as consumer debt is now at a new all time record), and "This Time It Really Is Different" (turns out it wasn't), asked a simple question on its FacePlant page: "What effect do you think QE3 will have on the U.S. economy?" The people have now responded in a fashion that leaves little to the imagination. Actually, one thing is left to the imagination, namely whether the name of the one person responding that the $85 billion in monthly flow in perpetuity associated with QE3 is "not big enough" begins with Paul and ends with Krugman. Aside from that, in typical SF Fed fashion, no surprises at all.

From the San Fran Fed:

Incidentally, the poll is still open. Interested readers are welcome to share their thoughts with the house of doves that John Williams built (not that John Williams).

Update: Looks like quite a few people have shared their thoughts in the past 30 minutes. Compare before (above) and after.

Update 2: just gets better and better:

This is probably not what the Fed had in mind...

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Mon, 09/17/2012 - 12:11 | 2803665 Dalago
Dalago's picture

END THE FED!

 

 

“A system of capitalism presumes sound money, not fiat money manipulated by a central bank. Capitalism cherishes voluntary contracts and interest rates that are determined by savings, not credit creation by a central bank.”  - Ronnie Paul

 

 

“It is no coincidence that the century of total war coincided with the century of central banking.”  - Big Ron, again.

 

AND abolish the IRS while you're at it!  You're the one actually doing the work to earn the money!  If you have a right to your pursuits you have a right to keep everything you make, without the gov't taking it before you even get it.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 12:17 | 2803746 holdbuysell
holdbuysell's picture

If the research in the late Aaron Russo's (producer of Trading Places with Eddie Murphy and The Rose with Bette Midler) documentary 'America: Freedom to Facism' from 2006 below is correct, there is no law on the books for a Federal Income tax for wages.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O6ayb02bwp0

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 12:39 | 2803761 knukles
knukles's picture

Evidently the Good (some folks have been known to refer to him as Idiot) Dr. Krugman shares the same credibility as the predident who'll be meeting with Letterman, Beyonce and J-Z instead of Middle Eastern leaders.

All's well and good in NeverNeverLand, Kids.
Go back to sleep.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:30 | 2804029 chum bucket
chum bucket's picture

Good one man!!!!!!! I like it, but so true...

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:28 | 2804272 economics9698
economics9698's picture

In the absence of the gold standard, there is no way to protect savings from confiscation through inflation. There is no safe store of value. 
Alan Greenspan 

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 17:55 | 2805175 Aziz
Aziz's picture

"More dollars for Goldman, lower real wages for the masses".

Ain't that the truth.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:23 | 2804256 aint no fortuna...
aint no fortunate son's picture

I'm gonna see if they'll accept "The Bernank sucks dogballs"

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 12:33 | 2803822 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

 

 

Go figure...the poll is on Faceplant.  How fitting.

Poll this: Fuck you Bernanke!

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 12:45 | 2803860 Skateboarder
Skateboarder's picture

The ones who voted "long term, disastrous" are the first ones going to camp. Yay, camp!

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:30 | 2804027 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Speaking of voting...who elected Ben Dover? Who among us voted for The Fed....in 1913? Who got to vote on implementation of QE*? How does this voting thing actually work?

FFS even Faceplant users understand how stupid this idea is, yet Ben Dover is still in Orifice.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:16 | 2804222 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

You sure its not just a "trend."

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:33 | 2804044 EL INDIO
EL INDIO's picture

Is there a counter for how many people have voted ?

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 18:19 | 2805247 CPL
CPL's picture

Don't know, waiting to see if they keep lemonparty(dot)org up on their front page.

 

They asked for public opinions...the people have spoken.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 12:49 | 2803876 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

Bernanke just did the biggest bluff in the history of central banking...Well done Bernanke, never thought I would have said that, utterly completly superbely masterful, I wonder if he did that on purpose though. I guess no a lot of people are getting it.... CHeck the 30 years, Bernanke has just uncorked the genie of stagflation, he will stop printing in 6-9 months, Gold will sell-off in Knee Jerk, Equities will rally in Knee Jerk,(one will think that no printing = bad for Gold, and no printing = good for equities) Then people realize Bernanke stopped the printing because the salving stagflation has arrived enabling workers to repay mortgage and credit card debts with more confettis they will get at work, so debt shrinks. The printing per se never augments the quantity of circulation (inflation), it is the fear of inflation which make people with money spend their money in fiat system. With Gold you can never scare them (hence necessary confiscation in 1933) The printing is there to avoid collapse of the banking system, this last printing is a ruse to force corporation to spend their cash by making them believe he is crazy, but even if they figure that out, the prisoner dilemma will force them to spend because, if Corpation A does not do it and Corporation B does it, then B will create stagflation so you better join the corporate spending waste, because if you do not join you are worse off...Corporate Keynesianism... If he had done that from the beginning it was crack-up boom, now it will lead to stagflation, and capital owners (bonds and stocks) fucked in the ass, commodities and Gold owner fine, beware of the sell-off in Gold when he stops, and double down because Bernanke stopping means stagflation starting....

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:02 | 2803920 pods
pods's picture

Are you trying to say that workers are going to be paid more enabling them to pay down their debts?

pods

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:44 | 2804083 Sockeye
Sockeye's picture

Not likely!

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:14 | 2804204 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

THe Corporations will be forced to depart from their cash = what does that mean to you? You will receive more currency units, I am not saying that those currency units will buy more things, but those more numerous currency units will be handy to repay fixed nominal debts...

 

 

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:26 | 2804269 pods
pods's picture

Well, I hope you are right.  But my thoughts on stagflation were that wages would be depressed as the cost of goods rises.  Low to no growth and high UE make wage increases tough in my opinion.

There is not enough demand for labor to force wages higher, IMHO.

pods

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:51 | 2804366 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

cost of goods rising and depressed wages = crack-up boom.

QUESTION

When there was a lot of demand due to leveraging up, were the wages up in proportion to the economy? THe share of labor was shrinking, and the share of capital expanding. I think the answer is a resounding NO! So demand from leveraging up does not yield higher wages in proportion to the economy.

It is a misconception. The wages will go upnominally (not buying more stuff, but repaying up more debts), because the Fed is forcing Corporations out of their cash into poor IRR.

 

 

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 15:45 | 2804647 pods
pods's picture

Well I hope you are right in the estimate that wages will even rise nominally.  From what I have seen in the industry I am in (pharma), whenever a company is faced with surplus capital and a shrinking market share (lower growth), they go hunting for companies, not pay higher wages.

Pfizer, who was flush with cash and with Lipitor coming off patent, purchased Wyeth for their pipeline.  This led to consolidation and more workers competing for less jobs.  

I think the last place a corporation would place their reserves would be into wages.  

Just my opinion.  I think I am correct, but hope you are.

pods

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:35 | 2804315 earnulf
earnulf's picture

Labor cannot demand higher and higher wages when corporations (i.e businesses) are unable to pass said increases along to the customer.   If innovation is not available to replace or speed up the manufacturing of goods, then wages will NOT increase as supply costs in continue to rise.       At least in my line of work, everything that goes into the production has increased by 3-10% per year for the past three years yet we are unable to pass along a rate hike because of competition that is cutting each others throats for volume rather than profit.    As a small business (NPO) we don't have the deep pockets to run in the red for an extended period without shuttering.

We are still in an environment where the big are getting bigger and using those deep pockets to get even bigger.   This is international in scale, not national and definately not local.     How many mom and pops are left?   The answer is that small business has a very difficult time competing when the big boys decide to focus on your corner of the universe.   BTW, our average wage is about two dollars over Fed Min and labor is 66% of costs.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 15:49 | 2804336 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

You have it backward, the demand versus supply, in my scenario capital is forced engaged into mutually chicken game of spending their cash. My scenario involves the one with money (Corporations) forced to spend it. That spending goes in the circulation. If they are forced to spend that into poor IRR because they are forced by Bernanke's flames thrower you have lots of money spent on little output results = stagflation.If none of the prisoners would budge we would be stuck, but one of the prisoners will do it first, forcing the other ones to do it. The first one who uses the fiat loses the least, go CFOs run and spend your cash, and run fast.... (consumer debtors, watch those guys run and debase your debt by spending and hiring on senseless projects..)

The big guns will be forced to spend their cash Bernanke is guaranteeing that. The impact on small business I do not know, a lot of small were benefitting from the leveraging up.

 

 

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 18:36 | 2805289 skipjack
skipjack's picture

Why the fuck would corps spend any $$$ in this environment of no demand ?  You are all wet behind the ears.  Peope have no money and no credit to buy...hence, no "investment" in producing more things will be forthcoming.

 

Add in $5 gas and $25 Mickey D dinners and you have a consumer gone toes up.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 15:24 | 2804550 roadhazard
roadhazard's picture

If the worker got at the very Least a cost of living wage the last thirty years they could afford to consume. All they got was "credit" and that is Gone. This end must be what Big Biz wanted, how's that workin' out for ya now, college boyz. Smartest guys in the room my ass.

I'm glad I didn't buy in to any of the bullshit, starting with wearing a fucking tie. I sleep well at night.

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 00:01 | 2806053 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

     everything that goes into the production has increased by 3-10% per year for the past three years yet we are unable to pass along a rate hike because of competition that is cutting each others throats for volume rather than profit.

The predictable result of which is called the "creative destruction" of capitalism.  What you may currently perceive as a "problem" is just the motive force for progress.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:37 | 2804058 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

Wow quite a run ...only one period. However, the point is lost.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:17 | 2804226 WhiteNight123129
WhiteNight123129's picture

Can could explain?

Tue, 09/18/2012 - 00:04 | 2806058 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Criticism of this Tyler's punctuation.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:48 | 2804093 EL INDIO
EL INDIO's picture

Unlimited QE a bluff ! ?

I prefer to judge people by their actions not using speculation and Benny’s actions say he’s an incompetent mad bureaucrat.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 11:58 | 2803673 qussl3
qussl3's picture

Where's the most common answer? - Huh?

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 12:08 | 2803710 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

Most common answer: Where's my pony?

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 12:13 | 2803730 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

Steers & Queers...

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 12:47 | 2803869 JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Do you really think I am going to click through to an unannotated vid?  Lord knows what Ill find.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 12:51 | 2803884 fuu
fuu's picture

Oh well, no RevCo for you.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:53 | 2804126 NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

There's no such thing as an unannotated youtube link if you use Firefox.

Greasemonkey script processer add-on

https://addons.mozilla.org/en-US/firefox/addon/greasemonkey/

YouTube title add script

http://userscripts.org/scripts/show/12113

 

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:05 | 2803926 pods
pods's picture

No streaming at work, my guess:

Gunnery Sgt. Hartman?

Am I right, private cowboy?

pods

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:30 | 2804025 fuu
fuu's picture

Revolting Cocks - Beers, Steers, and Queers

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:41 | 2804077 goldfish1
goldfish1's picture

...and fat naked flamers in the castro.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 12:26 | 2803792 ebworthen
ebworthen's picture

Did you miss "bar charts" in seventh grade?

The votes for everything are only like 220 or so; login to Farcebook and check the box next to the one you like.

I guess "Start WW III" is too much to ask for as a choice?

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 12:34 | 2803829 johnQpublic
johnQpublic's picture

almost makes me wish i used faceplant ,er ,...facebook

 

 

 

 

almost

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 12:39 | 2803841 malikai
malikai's picture

I'm sure someone will add it.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 12:41 | 2803844 knukles
knukles's picture

Was held back in remedial stick figure class

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 13:21 | 2803987 MassDecep
MassDecep's picture

"login to Farcebook and check the box next to the one you like"

I don't belong to fartbook and my opinion really doesn't matter.

Stack and prepare sheeple.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 12:54 | 2803728 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

The People? Come on Tyler! Less than 120 votes on FuckBook...more proof the FB is a $3 stock, at most and the fed needs to be shuttered. 

 

update: looks like the votes are reflecting reality a bit more; keep up the voting all you FUCKBOOK users!

 

FuckBook $3.01 Fuck the Fed.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 12:34 | 2803826 DosZap
DosZap's picture

I think if they had sent 50% of this in the mail to Americans to spend, the economy would be ON FIRE and UE would be ZERO.

Would have pulled the entire Globe out of the pit.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 12:43 | 2803854 knukles
knukles's picture

EXACTAMUNDO

That was the fundamental premise of dropping moolah from helicopters... to give significant discretionary spendable income...

But onh the fuck no, the bankers get it for bonuses...
Trickle Down My Ass.

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 14:19 | 2804235 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

They would'nt mind having Your Ass if you carried on like this :)

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 12:59 | 2803911 insanelysane
insanelysane's picture

google "pareto chart" and learn at least one thing today

Mon, 09/17/2012 - 17:12 | 2805002 dbomb12
dbomb12's picture

I will take Zimbabwe for 1,000,000,000,000 papiermarks Alex

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