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Santelli And The November Obamacare 'Referendum'

Tyler Durden's picture


In a brief clip this morning, CNBC's Rick Santelli said a lot in a few words. His critical insight was that today's decision is about process and not preference and that the real decisions will be made in November when it becomes 'the people's choice'. He is a big believer in the 'pragmatic process' we should all enjoy and suggests today's SCOTUS decision (doing what they do best in comprehending the law) should be 'taken with respect' but notes the analogy to Europe:

"You can try to have the mighty above tell the people below how they should live their lives, what they should get, and 'the government big enough to give you everything you want, and', in the words of Thomas Jefferson, 'big enough to take away everything you have.' But what are we left with really? We are left with an issue that should, by all indications be voted on by the American public. No matter how the Supreme Court decision worked out; no matter what the legislative process tells us; no matter how ugly this process was to get passed; in the end, I think it's more than appropriate that this will be, in my opinion, part of the referendum in November as to whether the public wants this or not."


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Thu, 06/28/2012 - 12:37 | 2569549 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

Look at the taxes under Obamacare. We ARE France on steroids!!!!


Thu, 06/28/2012 - 12:48 | 2569626 crawldaddy
crawldaddy's picture

as a share of the economy, taxes are now the lowest since 1950.  But hey, why let facts get in the way of your ignorance.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 12:55 | 2569670 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

OK, smart ass, get up off of the floor and walk. Lies, damned lies, and statistics. Any thought that taxes as a share of the economy are so low because HALF THE DAMN COUNTRY doesn't pay any?

That really leaves a burden on the other half...oh, and the deficit, which hurts the overall national debt.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 13:01 | 2569709 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

HIT PIECE coming re Obamacare on my blog tonight.  Higher taxes, less liberty.  A bad day for America.

This election will test my recent thesis that there is 14 cents worth of difference between the R-Team and the D-Team.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 13:30 | 2569841 Ceteris paribus
Ceteris paribus's picture

This will all be fixed in November because our masters have told us we can vote for Obama or Rommey, America the free.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:05 | 2569951 The Big Ching-aso
The Big Ching-aso's picture



If unlimited Obamacare covers people with mental illness, obesity, or STDs 4 life, no one else will ever get an appt. 2 see a doctor.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:13 | 2570046 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

researchers explain that health costs continued to go up over the period in question, and their overall findings are “incompatible with claims that health reform has cut medical bankruptcy filings significantly.


Does forcing you to buy auto insurance lower the cost of insurance?


Healthcare costs is the reason why people didn't buy insurance.


COST is the culprit

  1. produce more doctors (it is a service business, get rid of doctors union)
  2. single payor reduces overhead (merge vets, medicare, medicaid all those systems into one)
  3. force the public to be healthier (smokers, binge drinkers, fatties need to be taxed more to pay their fair share)
  4. limits to what's covered (government should be spending $2M  college scholarships on 110yo granny who is going to die anyway)
Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:14 | 2570065 Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

American taxes are about to go Canadian. You don't know what it is to pay taxes until you have experienced the European utopia.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:20 | 2570428 AldousHuxley
AldousHuxley's picture

New taxes


0.9% increase in Hospital Insurance tax for $250k + income family or $200k individual

40% excise tax on cadillac plans

2.3% tax on imported medical devices

2.5% floor increase to 10% of AGI for medical expense deduction

10% tax on indoor tanning

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 17:32 | 2571243 JeffB
JeffB's picture

and when income taxes were first levied in 1913, the rates were 1% for incomes over $3,000 with a 6% surcharge for those earning over $500,000.

Takeaway: Original tax rates never stay the same.

The camel's nose under the tent isn't really all that big of a deal. Things can get a little crowded, though, when you're sharing your tent with the camel. If some of his friends or family decide to join him, it could even get downright uncomfortable.


Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:19 | 2570089 Michael
Michael's picture

Hopefully under obama care, black abortions go up from 51% to about 100% and the incidence of Autism goes from 1 in 50 to 100% as well.

People deserve what they get for being so stupid.


Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:19 | 2570425 Cranios
Cranios's picture

We can vote for Romney or Obama, and the Dems can steal the vote for Obama.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:04 | 2570003 Michael
Michael's picture

I am now most definitely going to vote for Obama in November.

This will help make the impotent USA crash and burn much faster.

The people of the USA needs to be so fucked up the ass there is no more ass skin left on their bottom.

I just thank God so much every day on my knees for the complete and total economic collapse of the USA and the world.

It's the only thing that will solve most of our problems, when everybody gets nothing, NOTHING!

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 15:27 | 2570474 sansnobel
sansnobel's picture

Yep, absolutely.  The something for nothing crowd in this country needs a serious dose of reality.  I can't wait for complete and utter collapse.  The truth in the end will always triumph over these snake oil salesmen politicos.  Ofcourse, when the people come for the culprits they will have already escaped on their private jets to mountain Chalais in Switzerland were they will sip champagne, revel in their smugness and come up with new schemes to deceive mankind. 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:15 | 2572017 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

Federal tax rates are also the lowest they've been in decades, correlating with the fact that the bitching about taxes is at an all-time high.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 12:55 | 2569674 Beam Me Up Scotty
Beam Me Up Scotty's picture


Thu, 06/28/2012 - 12:58 | 2569687 MJ
MJ's picture

Theft is ok as long as it's less theft...

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 13:01 | 2569704 DOT
DOT's picture

I count my State taxes together with the Federal. Unfunded mandates have forced the states to increase taxes. I believe total tax burden to GDP is now about 30 %. Federal burden in 1960 was about 17.5 %.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 17:35 | 2571255 JeffB
JeffB's picture

Of course outright taxes are only 1 of the 3 ways we're funding government spending.

Don't forget all of the borrowing and the money printing.


Thu, 06/28/2012 - 13:01 | 2569710 beentheredonethat
beentheredonethat's picture

you are an idiot- lets just stop spreading this bullshit.- the effective tax rate vs. the "standard" are completely different things. In 1960 the standard rate was 70+%. no one paid this. there were deductions- for example investments were advertised as 10 to 1 or 5 to 1 or 20 to 1 -- in other words, you invested 1 dollar and got a 20 dollar write off on cattle farms for instance (and you did not need to know anything about cattle). so the effective rate was way less. maybe 20% or 30% if you were a dope. no one paid the published rates. thats how the AMT came about - they published a list of I think 50 millionaires who paid no tax - and so congress passed the AMT. Which of course effects 50 millions americans next year. STOP SPREADING THIS BULLSHIT.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 13:02 | 2569714 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

More telling is Federal spending as a percentage of GDP.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 13:32 | 2569859 DOT
DOT's picture

Indeed, the burden becomes clear.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 13:14 | 2569756 rebelscum1967
rebelscum1967's picture

What economy?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 13:16 | 2569770 Nick Jihad
Nick Jihad's picture

as a share of the economy, taxes are now the lowest since 1950.  But hey, why let facts get in the way of your ignorance.

Deficits are merely taxes deferred.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 13:34 | 2569864 mraptor
mraptor's picture

~50% dont pay taxes

and then ~50% are on stamp foods... (they intersect)

what this means is there is boatload of ppl that live for free on the back of the others...

Any 1% more tax is unfair, doesnt matter what was the tax 1950 or 500BC..... as long as the majority of the population don't do shit to add to the pie any tax on the rest is stealing.

And btw borrowing is disguised tax (future inflation) too.. so you should summ it up..  Total-tax = todays-tax + borrowing

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 13:36 | 2569874 narnia
narnia's picture

Federal, state & local governments will spend close to $7.0 trillion this year directly and God knows how much more off-balance sheet & contingent liabilities.  The US spends more per captia than any other country in the history of the world, and this just added a huge burden right on top of that.  

All of this spending is paid for in current or future direct taxation or inflation.  People who don't get that are the ignorant ones.

It's all kind of b.s. anyway.  This ship has long since hit the iceberg.  We're screwed with or without this.  

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 13:40 | 2569894 Taint Boil
Taint Boil's picture



Can someone clear this up for me, for example:


Let’s say I work at McDonald’s and I need $50,000 heart surgery. I have no money.


With Obamacare who pays?


Without Obamacare who pays?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 13:47 | 2569944 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

Regardless of how much m0ney you have or don't - where the hell you gonna find heart surgery for 50K?

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 17:38 | 2571264 JeffB
JeffB's picture



Thu, 06/28/2012 - 22:18 | 2572026 Lord Koos
Lord Koos's picture

In Costa Rica, Thailand, Mexico, etc etc.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 13:49 | 2569948 pacu44
pacu44's picture

Can someone clear this up for me, for example:


Let’s say I work at McDonald’s and I need $50,000 heart surgery. I have no money.


With Obamacare who pays?


Without Obamacare who pays?


How should a Micky D worker needing a surgery be pushed off on me paying for it under any circumstance? I dont even know this guy... Why hold a gun to my head?

If gubment would get out of the medical business, it would not cost as much, that I know...

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 17:46 | 2571286 JeffB
JeffB's picture

"If gubment would get out of the medical business, it would not cost as much, that I know..."


True dat. Everything the government gets involved in goes up in price. Health care... college education.

Health care that isn't covered by medicare, medicaid, health insurance in general has gone down in price...

See lasik surgery, plastic surgery etc.

I recently came across the bill for my birth in the mid '50s. It was a little over $300 and included two weeks in the hospital for my mother and me. The terms were ~ $103 due one month before the expected birth, $103 at birth, and $103 a month after the birth.

Of course they didn't have air conditioning and cable TVs, but that should be an option for people I would think.

Why do wealthy people go on "health vacations" to "3rd world countries" for serious operations even when they may have health insurance coverage here? Supposedly the health care there is better. It's also often significantly cheaper.


Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:31 | 2570146 Tom Servo
Tom Servo's picture

Scenario 1: you, or nobody.  McDonalds will get a waiver.  McDonalds doesn't offer peons like you health insurance.


Scenario 2: you, or nobody.  McDonalds doesn't offer peons like you health insurance.


I just like to try to step back and take health care and insurance out of the equation. Just try to get a lib to admit that it isn't constitutional to force individuals to enter into contracts with for profit corporations.  Leave other mundane details aside, they always go, BUT WE ALL NEED HEALTH CARE.... that's irrelevant you mindless drone!

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 13:44 | 2569928 azzhatter
azzhatter's picture

Dear Assface, What were property taxes in 1950? What were sales tax in 1950? What were state and local taxes in 1950? What were auto reg fees in 1950? What were telephone taxes in 1950?  Oh, never mind, just blow me

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:13 | 2570060 post turtle saver
post turtle saver's picture

Why is that statement always trotted out as a justification to raise taxes? Who cares if "taxes are lowest since XYZ", just because they are doesn't mean we need or want to make them higher.

Here's an idea... you tell us what you would use higher taxes for, and we'll vote on whether that's what we want or not. As a hint, you may not want to tell your constituents how 'ignorant' they are and that you know best when trying to push your agenda through.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 13:00 | 2569707 battle axe
battle axe's picture

Do not bother me, I have to take my pants down and bend over so that the Federal Govt can reem the shit out of me. Thank you....

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 12:38 | 2569554 Abner Doon
Abner Doon's picture

Please report on this Zero Hedge.

From letters sent to Michael Mashburn, SEC and Daniel Stefek, FINRA, from Tasha W. Sheehy, Enforcement Attorney, State of North Carolina Secretary of State


I put my career on the line to call them out,
and not one financial blog has put it up
and not one for profit news outlet has touched it.

Please help.




Thu, 06/28/2012 - 12:39 | 2569559 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

anyone who thinks that the election is a referendum or that the law will go away is a prime candidate for walking fucktard award. romney is pandering liar. his election would alter this law. besides, there are armed military at intersections all over america who will compel an appropriate vote.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 12:41 | 2569576 Robot Traders Mom
Robot Traders Mom's picture

There is probably a mandate for the military to patrol our streets.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 14:12 | 2570055 DOT
DOT's picture

Or private contractors from another country.
Our military must be kept overseas.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 12:43 | 2569597 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

According to the Constitution, the people do not directly elect the President

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 12:57 | 2569685 Treeplanter
Treeplanter's picture

The states elect the president.  We have a republic of united states created by the states. 

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 13:26 | 2569813 CH1
CH1's picture

We have a republic of united states created by the states.

Well, we did for a few years, anyway.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 13:53 | 2569979 Race Car Driver
Race Car Driver's picture

We did. Right up to the war of Northern agression... but not after. We no longer have a republic, either.

I junked ya for being historically illiterate.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 13:06 | 2569725 Id fight Gandhi
Id fight Gandhi's picture

Right, you have to be "chosen" to do that.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 12:45 | 2569598 bigdumbnugly
bigdumbnugly's picture

and sadly, if it is a referendum i think there are enough deadweights around to override the opposition and re-elect the man anyway.

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 12:47 | 2569615 Cole Younger
Cole Younger's picture

Actually, Romney and the republicans have vowed to repeal the law..The democrats want ti fix it.. The public will vote on the issue in November..If you want the ACA, you will vote democrat..If you want it repealed, you will vote republican..It is that simple...

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 12:55 | 2569671 Ms. Erable
Ms. Erable's picture

So the Republitards will save us from the Demsheviks? Riiiiiiight...

Thu, 06/28/2012 - 13:02 | 2569717 Marginal Call
Marginal Call's picture

Repubs won't manage but a half hearted dog and pony attempt at repealing RobomneyCare.  Any "attempt" to kill it will die in the senate.  It's another thing we are people are stuck with till collapse. 

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