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The Scariest Chart Ever?

Tyler Durden's picture


There are many charts out there all of which are to some extent worth of the adjective "scary" although today's Bloomberg chart of the day may just take the prize, if only for a few days until the European hopium daze passes and reality manifests itself in the form of line and bar charts. The chart below is perfectly simple and perfectly self-explanatory...


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Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:03 | 1788607 RacerX
RacerX's picture

Debt enslavement.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:09 | 1788644 TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

Debt Serfdom is the growth industry.

European fiefdom days are on the way back.

Be the Lord of the Manor, bitchez, because the life of a serf is a hard grind.


Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:10 | 1788650 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture

Excellent, Smithers. Most excellent. 

Now, release the hounds.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:27 | 1788736 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

How long until Jubilee?

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:31 | 1788751 Cash_is_Trash
Cash_is_Trash's picture

Why get an underwater mortgage for your house if your whole life is an underwater mortgage?

Have fun in Underwaterworld, bitchez

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:39 | 1788794 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



I scrolled way left on that chart (several hundred years BC) and found this little note:

Exodus 22:25, “If thou lend money to any of my people that is poor by thee, thou shalt not be to him as an usurer, neither shalt thou lay upon him usury.”

What should we expect when we don't follow the directions?

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:42 | 1788814 trav7777
trav7777's picture

we?  I mean, to what group did this constitute a Holy text?  And you should be aware that there IS no direction to lend to people outside the clan at 0%.  In fact, it is interpreted as an affirmative commandment TO lend to them at interest, always.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:58 | 1788849 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Relax, Trav.  My loose interpretation of this scripture (and related scripture) is don't lend money at interest to sub-prime borrowers, rather give them charity, expecting nothing in return.

Maybe you didn't play a role in that chart's data set, but I sure did, each and every time I deposited money in a yield-chasing TBTF bank.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:59 | 1788904 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

So what's so scary about this? I'm not American...

I couldn't give a toss...

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:11 | 1788961 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

Are you a directly or indirectly USD holder?

In that case, I guess you should.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:12 | 1788965 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Nope, just gold and silver...

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 14:04 | 1789662 zerozam
zerozam's picture

Why is every freaking country in debt? Not a single country run a surplus. Can someone tell me who the hell lends out all the money? It ain't Somalia, Mongolia or Greenland - i know that for sure.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 14:40 | 1789816 earleflorida
earleflorida's picture

today every country/ sovereign in the known flat world has a central bank -  controlled in tiny-town 'basel', also known as the bank of int'l settlements [bis = bs]

only three countries remain without - iran, n. korea, and somalia   

ps. there might be a fourth but ,...

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 17:23 | 1790380 Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

If you were to write a cheque with no intent of settling the transaction with goods of due value or kind, it is the same as printing a dollar, mark, franc, etc, etc, where the country has no intent of settling. 

These of course can be issued by private banks to citizens. However, they are not lending you anything more than a piece of paper, as there is no capital backing the loan. 

If I was a bank and I were to lend you 10 tons of gold that you intended to use as collateral for the building of your new swimming pool, and you were concerned about security during transport, I could offer you a bank cheque as assurance of your solvency to your contractor creditors, in your ability to pay them on completion of your pool. If the bank gave you a cheque book and you wrote them cheques for the work done and they presented those cheques to the bank for payment in gold and the banks said, "Sorry! We don't got no gold because all that we offered was credit, We lied. Ooops!" , the settlement of the debt could never occur. You become part of the deciet.

That is the state of our monetary system. Just try to redeem your piece of paper at your sovereign bank. They will ask; "What's the problem with that one?" You will only be issued with another. 

Unbacked currency is a lie. We have all been decieved.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 14:13 | 1789708 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Awesome exchange thus far. Green arrows all around. 

And that cartoon TIS, tells such a story. It tells the story that the story has been known, plot, character and gotcha plot twist, for a long time now. In fact, we can say easily that we have known the truth exactly as long as the lie has been around.

But it's hard for most to give up long cherished (read programmed) truths (read lies). Every time and I mean every time i see the name FED, I remember Louis McFadden. The truth has been out a long time. On record. Adn eloquently to boot. even Woody Will(less)son admitted he had made a huge mistake.

This has been a tightly controlled experiment. it is merely reaching it's logical conclusion. Those that believe large populations cannot be controlled live uni-dimensional lives.

And OWS should de-mob, like yesterday.

OWS Flash De-Mob


Wed, 10/19/2011 - 18:44 | 1790661 i-dog
i-dog's picture

OWS Flash De-Mob

Good advice, ORI. Sadly, none will follow it ... they'll just keep banging their head against the brick wall, expecting a different outcome next time...

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:25 | 1789009 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Isn't GDP per person a flow and Debt per person an amount?  Shouldn't we compare debt service per person with GDP per person?

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:41 | 1789085 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture


BR - GDP is just a reference point that allows for comparison over time and against other economies.


The 100% debt vs. GDP number is misleading though because it only considers Federal debt.  Throw in state, municipal, corporate, consumer debt and you are at 375%.  That is the real concern; wait for bloomberg to post that number.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 13:02 | 1789432 bernorange
bernorange's picture

Anyone around here hear much media attention to the fact that one of the presidential candidates (Ron Paul of course) started a serious and sobering discussion on addressing the spending/debt (wants to cut $1T out of the budget next year)?  Think this needs more attention?  Help Ron Paul make the point loud and clear.  Support the Black This Out fundraiser happening today - right now - by donating.  Whether a little or a lot doesn't matter - even $10 makes a statement. 

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 13:23 | 1789502 whstlblwr
whstlblwr's picture

Seriously, I wish he came in different package, but if anyone who reads this cares about country Ron Paul is only one to vote for. Others don't have guts to do what we need to do. In debate last night, Romney clearly understands problem, but he won't take medicine. Do they realize outcome if not? Or do they expect something else, reset or default?

Last night debate brought to you by your corporate sponsors the OIL/GAS INDUSTRY and HEALTHCARE, major advertising all over entire debate and of course the beefy product placement. Wink,wink, Perry, Romney.

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 01:19 | 1791635 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Ron Paul does care about the nation for the most part, but to be president you have to be able to take care of all of it not just the financial part of it.  His attitudes about non white straight male Americans is DEEPLY disturbing to the majority of people who happpen to be half female, 10% gay, 32% non white, and 80% secular. 

I care about the nation and I want to end the fed, I am a natural born citizen that meets all constitutional requirents to be president.  Does that mean you should promote my candidacy and elect me?  Of course not.  That would be bullshit. 

He also has only one thing going for him, end the Fed, and while that is an admirable policy it just is not enough to be president.  If he were elected and got rid of the Fed in the first week in office then what?  By the second week he would be outlawing abortion and sending gay people to the concentration camps.  No amount of argument is going to get me to vote for that man.  Not until he says that constitutional amendments are OFF the table.  We have troubles, and we will work them out, but not by changing the rules of the game. 

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 01:47 | 1791673 i-dog
i-dog's picture

"Does that mean you should promote my candidacy and elect me?"

Why not? With your name on every bumper sticker -- "Boil The Rich!" -- you'd be sure to be elected in a landslide!! (You'd get 95% of ZH commenters, for a start)

PS. There's one constitutional amendment I'd like to see - repeal ALL amendments from the 14th onwards!! (OK, we could keep a couple regarding suffrage, but even they're really no longer necessary)

Thu, 12/29/2011 - 13:45 | 2019651 haibop
haibop's picture

This is definitely a great idea. beacon payday loans

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 13:36 | 1789489 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Unfunded liabilities are $116 trillion (778% of $14.9 trillion 2011 GDP) versus $14.8 trillion in debt.  Besides, the US GDP may be severely inflated by an overblown financial sector that accounts for half the profits. Dagong, the Chinese rating agency, says

"If we exclude the factor of virtual economy, the U.S. actual GDP is about 5 trillion U.S. dollars in 2009, per capita GDP about $ 15,000. Meanwhile, the total domestic consumption was 10.0 trillion U.S. dollars and government expenditure was 4.5 trillion U.S. dollars"

The real situation of US debt is far scarier than that graph.


Sat, 10/22/2011 - 19:08 | 1800616 Pinto Currency
Pinto Currency's picture



Remember, your $14.8 trillion in debt is only the Federal debt.  The total debt (Fed, State, Corp, Consumer, Municipal and Consumer debt) is $51 trillion + then the unfunded liabilities.



Fri, 03/16/2012 - 23:58 | 2264354 haibop
haibop's picture

exactly 48 gas range

Tue, 02/21/2012 - 01:18 | 2180077 haibop
haibop's picture

the right way to go. surveys4income

Sun, 03/18/2012 - 11:58 | 2267110 haibop
haibop's picture

how about now? 36 inch gas range

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:35 | 1789057 fourchan
fourchan's picture

you will see...

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 13:21 | 1789495 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

Because if you ain't on OUR SIDE bitch then you are just another ant and if the elephant starts another wild stampede or  just splits and falls over dead then you are going to get crushed.


Count on it.


Hitler with nukes,hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm.


Wed, 10/19/2011 - 13:31 | 1789527 Hard1
Hard1's picture

Neither am I, but unless you live on a cave with wahtever resources you can will feel the efects

Tue, 12/27/2011 - 14:43 | 2014203 haibop
haibop's picture

this is not funny. get your wife back

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:01 | 1788914 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Trav may be correct if I read him properly.  I remember from N. Ferguson's book, The Assent of Money, that Medieval Christain lenders were prohibited from charging interest but their Jewish counterparts interpreted it as prohibiting then from charging interest from other Jews, but it was ok to charge Christains.  It was a good book.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:26 | 1789014 Crack-up Boom
Crack-up Boom's picture

The restriction on charging interest (to whomever it applied) could be circumvented by charging a "fee" for the use of money.   

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:40 | 1789075 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

sure, what's the difference between Shariah finance and hire purchase?

The name, that's all...

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:46 | 1789116 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

Smiddy, I saw the film, and whilst I found it interesting I still thought it an apology for the banks.

Money, or currency, is not 'trust inscribed,' it is a depository receipt, this time secured by the assets in the Treasury. When people understand that there are no assets in the treasury they will discard it for gold or some other medium of exchange. At no point did he say that. That's the whole point of our 'innovative' derivatives industry, to distort the prices of everything indicative of inflation and convince the great unwashed that gold is not real money.

Nice try, no banana...

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:03 | 1789186 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Yeah...and ditch the middle finger too Mr Smiley Face. People might get the wrong impression. Like you're angry or somethin.

Tue, 03/20/2012 - 08:52 | 2272735 l.hauri
l.hauri's picture

it is the right opinion in my opinion. I am sure that you will have it in the future.
yacht charter turkey

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:02 | 1788925 Raymond Reason
Raymond Reason's picture

It ultimately constituted a Holy text to the Christains and Muslims.  And thus the clan became the worlds lenders. 

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:53 | 1788878 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

hedgeless_horseman, Exodus 22:25 was practiced extensively in the Middle Ages by not allowing Christians to lend to Christians and Jews to Jews.

This meant that Christians lent to Jews and they lent it to other Christians.

Let's say it did not work very well and it still fuels a lot of childish hate.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:10 | 1788896 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture



Indeed!  We are always trying to skirt the regs.



Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:26 | 1789013 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

Outside the regs: there be profits.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:41 | 1789086 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

Outside the regs: there be profits.


And inside the regs, there be prophets...

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:36 | 1789340 America- Some A...
America- Some Assembly Required's picture

Best reply ever!!




Seems i can't green you...

Mon, 12/26/2011 - 17:09 | 2012185 haibop
haibop's picture

you are right. Matt Huston Ex2

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:23 | 1789003 sdmjake
sdmjake's picture

Perhaps better instructions for folks:

"Owe no man anything" - Romans 13:8

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:40 | 1789055 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Amen, lest the devil be a counterparty to your counterparty.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:39 | 1789070 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture



Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:05 | 1789194 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

"neither a borrower nor a lender be."

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:39 | 1789356 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

It's a little late for that.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:50 | 1789388 Scout Itout
Scout Itout's picture

"except to love them"... Fixed it for you...

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:08 | 1789215 koperniuk666
koperniuk666's picture


Do we have peopel who BELIEVE in God on this site???

That's more scary than the chart.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:37 | 1789347 America- Some A...
America- Some Assembly Required's picture

God believes in you. I will pray for you.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 13:01 | 1789428 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

I will sacrifice a pig, a ram, and finally a bull to purify you and rid you of the evil spirits plaguing you.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 13:24 | 1789505 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

just kill his firstborn that should do the trick,

What did a pig or goat ever do to you anyway.


Leave em alone and no you can't marry one.


Wed, 10/19/2011 - 13:26 | 1789511 MsCreant
MsCreant's picture

Do heathens get to roast those sacrifices later? I smell dinner, Bitchez. I command more sacrifices! And after all, there is so much bull around... lemons into lemonaid and all.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 13:38 | 1789553 Gene Parmesan
Gene Parmesan's picture

Half of the sacrifice needs to get tossed into the sea. If someone wants to fish it out that's up to them. The other half is supposed to be burnt up to nothing, but show me a cook who doesn't taste what he's cooking while it's cooking and I'll show you a liar. Heathens can lick the grease stain off the altar.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 13:38 | 1789551 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

"Do we have peopel who BELIEVE in God on this site???"

Not only that, but it seems to inform their actions and opinions.   That's what's really scary.


Disclosure: gave up beleiving in santa claus at 5, and god at 6.  Story came from the same people.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 14:14 | 1789713 hedgeless_horseman
hedgeless_horseman's picture

Maybe, when you turn 10, you will again change your mind.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 14:31 | 1789790 dugorama
dugorama's picture

Jesus loves you.  The rest of us think you're an a$$.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 13:03 | 1789435 zeroman
zeroman's picture

Very nice reference guide for us to follow. You can read in Genesis when Joseph was in charge of all Eygpt and several times it mentions that "money fails and money failed". The wealthy had to give up all they had for food. Some serious stuff. We all have a choice. We can either believe God's Word or we cannot.  

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:58 | 1788902 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

Let's all live in a Yellow Submarine. Then an underwater mortgage would be less inappropriate.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:07 | 1789205 Ag Star
Ag Star's picture

This underwater bitch hasn't paid the mortgage in 2 years now--living rent free.  They call us the shadow foreclosures and there are thousands of us.  Our homes are not listed on the MLS so to keep the real estate racket propped up.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 13:40 | 1789559 pelican
pelican's picture

Same here, not by choice, however the area went to crap.


I haven't paid a mortgage in 1.9 years and nothing has happened.  The banks can kiss my ass for destroying all my equity.

Mon, 09/03/2012 - 12:47 | 2757906 haibop
haibop's picture

now the housing is above the water cmo network

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:30 | 1788755 Unprepared
Unprepared's picture

Not in your lifetime

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:31 | 1788760 Long-John-Silver
Long-John-Silver's picture

The very moment the Jackals strip the last few bits of meat from your bones and walk away.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:32 | 1788765 Manthong
Manthong's picture

It's only scary if you care about what is going to come of it.. unlike anyone in banking or any of banking's government minions.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:36 | 1789059 tekhneek
tekhneek's picture

I think what's scary is that this money supply growth is probably going more exponential than this curve.

I want to overlay the money supply over this to get a feel for the trend.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:41 | 1788810 Bwahaha WAGFDSMB
Bwahaha WAGFDSMB's picture

How long until Guillotine?

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:38 | 1789061 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture


How long until Jubilee?


Right after your smoking slide locks open on your empty 30 rnd. clip.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:09 | 1789220 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

But, but, I have a whole stack of 'em!

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:53 | 1789400 Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

it's called a "magazine" not a "clip". not too firearms experienced are we.


Wed, 10/19/2011 - 13:29 | 1789521 Trimmed Hedge
Trimmed Hedge's picture

Actually, it's called a "periodical" -- not a "magazine."

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 18:08 | 1790565 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Hell, you can call it Shirley if it makes you happy, just keep'em full and keep'em coming.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:12 | 1788663 boom goes the d...
boom goes the dynamite's picture

The Greeks don't want no carry on.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:25 | 1788724 Oracle of Kypseli
Oracle of Kypseli's picture

The Greeks will lead the way again and provide new enlightenment for the masses and wake up the sheeple

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:34 | 1788762 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

Well, debt is "money" so debt should be a leading indicator which GDP will follow.  When that GDP line corrects it looks like it will pretty close to parabolic. 

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:38 | 1788798 Dr Hackenbush
Dr Hackenbush's picture


Thu, 10/20/2011 - 01:45 | 1791671 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

I want to add that debt is one side of the coin, what is lent to you and as such becomes your liability to repay is to the lender an asset.  That chart could just as easily be termed assets to GDP.  If GDP is falling even as debt (money) is going parabolic then that means that it is a chart of concentration of wealth also having gone parabolic.  Living standards are dropping fast, both real and nominal incomes are meteoric, average, mean, and median.  Yet debt (money) is going through the roof.  Do the math, the only way that can happen is that the top 1% which were and have been for a long time obscenely rich are now at the point of owning everything in real terms. 

313,000,000 of us and just over 3 million own it all.  And moreover that line is exponential, soon it will be 3,000 that own everything and all of us.  Then 15.  If you think it can't happen or that things would fall apart before that I advise you once again to go to any Mexican town over 500,000 people and open your eyes.  Go to Tijuana, Juarez.  Because that is just exactly what they have and where we are headed.  A narco republic feudal state where the lords are drug lords who dabble in weapons sales and wholesale murder. 

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:23 | 1788720 aerojet
aerojet's picture

European feudalism ended right around the time that firearms appeared.  It's not a coincidence:  Suddenly a commoner could blast a nobleman off his high horse.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:40 | 1788805 americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

And armor no longer worked

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:38 | 1789353 Temporalist
Temporalist's picture

I don't think that applies any longer to the armoured cars that the banksters drive around in.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 13:27 | 1789514 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

damn difficult to take out those drones , they are really hard to hit especially the little bluebirds.



Wed, 10/19/2011 - 18:10 | 1790573 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture


Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:44 | 1788821 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

An excellent observation, aerojet.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:51 | 1788870 fajensen
fajensen's picture

Some scholars argue that the crusades and the black death in combination ended feudalism. The most war-like of the nobility went on crusades and got themselves killed, while the black death cleared some living space and increased the value of labour quite significantly. It became cheaper to pay peasants and workers than it was to hire enforcers to extort them.

Now, what will it take to get the bankers to join the Marines?

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:59 | 1788906 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

I would argue that feudalism started to retreat with the Italian Communes in the Renessaince, i.e. the rebirth of walled republican Cities vs feudal "Hinterlands".

The word was: "City Air sets you Free" since leaving for the City made you a valuable Citizen instead of a valueless Serf.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 14:24 | 1789758 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

If I recall correctly, in England, if a serf ran away and could live for a year and a day in a city without being caught they were officially free and no longer tied to the land.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:23 | 1789001 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

The Crusades exposed Europe to the classics. Over 90% of what was preserved from Rome and Greece came from the Middle East during these wars.  King Richard was known to be a learned man, but he only had 12 books, and judging from his reputation, I doubt he ever read them.  The Franks at this time were barbarians exposed to no new ideas, living within one mile of the place of their birth. 

Yes, gunpowder lessened the advantage of armor, and more importantly castles, but it was the ideas and the splendor the Crusaders were exposed to that changed everything.  Don't forget, there were a lot of Crusaders who, after finding good hygene, great food, great weather, and lots of booty, never returned to Europe.  Their voluntarily staying while others returned home validated the tales they told of a place where there was a better life, and this set the stage for social change.

The people on the farm who couldn't participate wanted a piece of the action too.  More importantly, because the people in charge had been the chief beneficiaries of the Crusades, they thought differently about change and were more open to doing business differently.  Until these ideas entered their society, change was unthinkable.

That's my 2 cents. 

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:42 | 1789093 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

gooood 2 cents! 8-)

so let me recap: send knights to the arab lands and learn something there (medicine, algebra, scientific method, etc.)

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:03 | 1789180 LongBallsShortBrains
LongBallsShortBrains's picture

Great observations smiddy and aero. Thank you!


Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:56 | 1789408 Vergeltung
Vergeltung's picture

complete rubbish. you get that off the back of a cereal box?


Thu, 10/20/2011 - 04:38 | 1791761 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

Would these be the same 'barbarians' who built the Gothic cathedrals, composed the Arthurian romances, and authored the works of Scholasticism?

As it happens, 'Dark AgeEurope was home to a culture of bathing and baths which actually disappeared with the so-called glorious Renaissance. This idea of of a filthy, backward, barbaric medieval Europe is itself a backward idea perpetuated by ill-educated fools.



Wed, 10/19/2011 - 14:18 | 1789730 BigJim
BigJim's picture

...Now, what will it take to get the bankers to join the Marines?

Never mind that. What will it take to get the Marines to desert the bankers? They are our government, after all.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:55 | 1788892 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

An excellent observation, aerojet.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:05 | 1788939 GeezerGeek
GeezerGeek's picture

The English longbow proved quite effective against French knights at the battle of Agincourt (1415). It helped that the battlefield was a bit muddy and the French horses apparently preferred dry ground. The longbow had a much greater range than firearms until relatively recently, and it could penetrate armor.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:19 | 1788990 catacl1sm
catacl1sm's picture

you had to be a good shot and its hard to hide a longbow from an approaching nobleman.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:09 | 1789222 A Man without Q...
A Man without Qualities's picture

The thing that really fucked with the French at Agincourt was that the English (though a large number of the infantry/ archers were actually Breton French peasants) did not play by the rules of chivalry.  

The French nobles assumed you would only fight other nobles at close quarters, but when they ran into the bowmen, they were funnelled through the staves, and then set upon by men with short swords, axes, clubs and all sorts of nasty weapons.  They expected to be able to surrender and then be exchanged for ransom, as were the "rules", but the angry peasants weren't interested in such niceties.  The English claimed that the French had set upon and killed the "van", or the camp followers, which is why the troops were so viscious, but it seems this was a myth.

As for the longbow, one of the worst risks for a horseman was that the arrow would penetrate the rider's leg and then go into the horse, essentially pinning you to a crazed animal... The other thing was that the arrow would usually push some of the fibres of the undergarments into the wound, meaning even if the arrow was taken out, there was a high risk of infection.  The mongols used silk as the inner layer, which made it far easier to extract..

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 14:42 | 1789753 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

The Bodkin arrow could not penetrate French armor.

The damage was actually done in the mud. French knights literally sank in it and could not move due to suction. English archers with cloth shoes did not stick, could simply wade through the mud to stranded French knights and literally stick a dagger through the arm pit. Hopelessly outnumbered and weary from a long campaign they had little option but to slaughter the French ; they had no resources to take prisoners.

And apart from that the English are just better all-round fighters than the French, always were...

And so ends the case for the defence M'Lud...

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:35 | 1789336 tmosley
tmosley's picture

It took many years to train to fire a longbow effectively.  Firearm use could be tought in a day at most.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 14:25 | 1789765 Harlequin001
Harlequin001's picture

and then came the crossbow...

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:29 | 1789027 Lebensphilosoph
Lebensphilosoph's picture

Firstly, 'feudalism' is a mere conceptual construct of later historians, of which, since the publication of critiques of Elizabeth Brown, it has generally been agreed upon by medievalists to have never actually existed.

Secondly, with the appearance of firearms, the decentralised estates of the European medieval period were replaced by the centralised autocracies of the Baroque and the gradual development of statism and corporatism into the 19th century. It is true that the firearm unhorsed the knight, but it hardly disenfranchised the aristocrat, and it most certainly did not lead to a diminishment in the power of the 'upper class'. It merely replaced warriors with merchants.

Thirdly, how could most commoners afford to acquire and maintain firearms? The armies of La Grande Révolution were organised and financed by the Third Estate and those loyal to the Ancien Régime or fighting for the church, regional autonomy, or real self-government and their ranks were filled with French peasants on both sides. Why would anyone think that firearms freed 'the people', unless he is caught up in some fantasy about a populist French Revolution leading to a government for and of that abstract, 'the people'.

That same Third Estate, as well as the Parvenu of 18th century French aristocracy to whom the peasntry took such exception were essentially drawn from the mercantile caste who rule us to this day. The overwhelming majority of peasant revolts in France prior to the 18th century were against this same caste, not against the nobility. In fact they were often led by nobles. That this changed with the 18th century, the century of ennoblement of bankers and merchants, is hardly coincidental.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:46 | 1789114 Clark Bent
Clark Bent's picture

Actually, though perhaps counterintuitive, and at the risk of being a spoilsport, the introduction of firearms probably lessened the value and influence of the (English) yeoman. Operating a longbow effectively took nothing less than a lifetime's training. To obtain the physical prowess to operate the yew- bow took many years of strength training. A well trained cadre of longbowmen could dominate a battlefield and secure victory for their patron. But these guys did not come cheap, and they were irreplaceable. You mistreated them at your peril becuase they could offer their services to your competitor and you would find your ass skewered. By comparison, any schmuck could learn to fire a firearm, and you could take them back from your soldiers after they had accomplished the task. Perhaps the true reason why half-ass early firearms replaced the devastating longbow. 

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 04:58 | 1791767 fajensen
fajensen's picture

and you could take them back from your soldiers after they had accomplished the task. 

Excellent point!

The firearm requires industry for its manufacture as well as a steady supply of powder and bullets - this is much easier to control and does provides several links where value can be extracted. 

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:44 | 1789101 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture



European feudalism ended right around the time that firearms appeared.  It's not a coincidence:  Suddenly a commoner could blast a nobleman off his high horse.


Also when gunpowder was invented and adopted by Europeans, those pesky mounted raiders from the East curtailed their pesky raiding/slaving/killing...stealing and raping suddenly had a much higher opportunity cost.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:08 | 1789214 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

And potatos. You could grow your secret food as well. Thank you South America!

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 02:14 | 1791699 boiltherich
boiltherich's picture

That was how the Irish survived, two glasses of milk from Flossie and two potatoes have all the nutrition you need to stay alive, thin but living.  And because Irish were reduced by slavery to the Brits into subsistence farming on land about as large as an average front yard in America today they had a cow that stood in the corner fertilizing the ground and giving milk, and the rest was given over to potatoes.  Kids would ride the cow to the commons where it grazed.  My father used to ride a cow to school every day as did most kids, because the school, or nearby church had acres of grounds full of lovely green grass for the cattle to eat upon.  That was just before the war.  But it was also their downfall because while potatoes and milk were a perfect nutritious food that could be raised on very little land it also meant that anything that attacked potatoes would essentially end food.  Then came the blight in 1844, a fungus swept across the country and you could stand on a high hill and see it moving from patch to patch day by day.  There were eight and a half million people living on the island before the famine, by the time it was over 5 years later there were only 600,000.  Possibly the greatest single genocide in history.  Of course many left rather than die, but at least five million did die directly.  People went towards the sea and ate grass on the roadside, and when there was no grass they ate mud.  The roads into Dublin in 1846 were so clogged with dead bodies they lay for weeks before being picked up. 

Great world we live in isn't it?  They were the 99% of their day, but the Brits did not allow protests, or education, or Catholicism, or alcohol, or land ownership, or courts.  Can happen again. 

Thu, 10/20/2011 - 05:09 | 1791770 fajensen
fajensen's picture

The British financiers of course seized the opportunity and sold all the wheat in the market instead of helping the Irish.

People who think that one does not need adequate food supplies or physical storage of reserves because The Market will provide it on request need to study the Irish famine. 

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 14:00 | 1789642 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

And serfdom made a comeback with non-dischargeable student loans now worth about a trillion dollars.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:39 | 1788802 topcallingtroll
topcallingtroll's picture

I will grind my lady serfs for sure.

It is amazing how easy pretty girls are in hard times.

I cant wait. Hit the reset button!

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:44 | 1788822 trav7777
trav7777's picture

anyone who's been to the developing world knows just how true that is

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:33 | 1789046 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture

I wonder how all the U.S. macho men will feel when foreigners with $$ help themselves to U.S. babes like Rich U.S. men went to eastern Europe and Russia.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:53 | 1789149 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture

I wonder how all the U.S. macho men will feel when foreigners with $$ help themselves to U.S. babes like Rich U.S. men went to eastern Europe and Russia.




Two thoughts - 

1. The majority of American 'women' are rotund with an entitled, princess mentality - you are welcome to them. Hell, BOGO! Load them on a container ship and ship them out.

2. Unlike Europe, and Asia - millions of Americans are armed with long guns with telescopic sights and we know how to use them; you are welcome to our slobbering field hogs however; bring a cheesecake and a backhoe.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 17:21 | 1790365 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture

I will step up to defend the babes of the USA.  There are plenty of them. Granted, there is a huge obesity problem-o in the U.S., and lots of lost potential in that (you can see a lot of pretty faces behind the bloat), but that's beside the point. 

The trying times around the corner will put the U.S. on a massive diet.  Food stuffs will deteriorate, people will be forced to focus on nutrition for survival vs. stuffing one's face with crap, or they will die of nourishment.

Obesity remains uncommon in the former Soviet R's and Union because of scarcity.  The U.S. has been the land of plenty for so long, and the land of rewards for one and all entitlement, that one can quite literally sit on his or her ass 24/7 and get food delivered, get special concessions from ERs for "disability", etc.  It's illegal to underwrite obesity in health-care like you would smoking for life insurance.  It's a entitlement nation with   A joke.

When this collapses, waistlines will shrink along with banking profits.

And for a while, and assuming the obesity problem remains, there will still be babes in good shape waiting for the smash-n-grab.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:07 | 1789207 SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Dude, they can fucking HAVE them.   Most natural born American women have insane expectations of what a guy should be able to deliver for what they offer (which is typically pathetic). 

I much prefer to court and date immigrant ladies that have beauty, class and manners.  They actually appreciate a gentleman and don't mistake kindness for weakness.  Not some boorish, low class wannabe whore that's been passed around like a joint at a heavy metal concert, realizing she has an expiration date and is then ready to settle 'down'.  

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 13:03 | 1789434 Sequitur
Sequitur's picture

I agree with everyone here. Take a trip overseas, most of the women (and men) have normal, proportional height/weight. And the women aren't entitled, stuck up whiners.

Upon returning to the U.S., the obesity tremor hits you in the airport. You see disgusting American cattle strolling up to the counter for their doughnut, greasy hamburger/burrito/sandwich, and sugar drink. And that's if they can even walk, Americans are so fat I now regularly see these motorized carts ferrying fatties around the terminals. No, you do NOT see this in other countries.

And without question, American women are the spear tip of the fat epidemic. In a word, a rising percentage of U.S. women are truly disgusting. Fat behemoths I wouldn't touch if they were the last hole on planet Earth. I don't even know how they can properly wash themselves or their asses with these rolls of fat. And their disgusting size is equalled by their piss-poor attitudes. Go ahead and call me mysogynistic. I'm not, I'm simply stating the provable, demonstrable fact the United States by far has the fattest women on the face of the planet. If you think foreign men want this, you are sorely mistaken.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 13:34 | 1789540 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

So true, the wimmins lib here seems to have been a free pass to the fukin buffett line with some HagenDaz as a lube.


Wed, 10/19/2011 - 14:41 | 1789831 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

Isn't that true. And you didn't even have to be rich. The son of a friend of mine married a tall, blonde Eastern European babe who speaks four languages and has a Ph.D. He has an associates degree and is unemployed.  

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:47 | 1789118 RafterManFMJ
RafterManFMJ's picture


anyone who's been to the developing world knows just how true that is


I'm looking for a French-Laotian, around 18-22 with plenty of Hybrid Vigor. Any ideas Trav777?

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:53 | 1788880 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

same attitude the banks have about the rest of us, all the time.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:26 | 1789015 Smiddywesson
Smiddywesson's picture

Ex.  Post Soviet Russia

Best example: Weimar Germany.

Great Read:  When Money Dies

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:27 | 1789019 eureka
eureka's picture

US empiral elite mafia fiefdom has been here a while...

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:16 | 1788647 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture

And here I went and followed the advice of Ken Fisher:

"Anytime forecasters predict doom and gloom due to our growing debt or negative saving rate, you'll know that the market outcome won't be what they fear. Sure, something could knock stocks, but it won't be our debt or lack of saving. Our growing debt is healthy. What's scary is any attempt to artificially reduce our debt by politicians--truly more idiotic than any heroin addict--because that would impede our economy. The market will know it and react badly."

-- Ken Fisher, May 1, 2007



Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:26 | 1788728 mkanterm
mkanterm's picture

First of all, I love your username Butters.

Second of all, I hate being young right now. It is my generation, those currently in college and entering the workforce in the next few years, who are going to bear the burden of any austerity/government deleveraging that will occur. We will be the ones to receive no benefits from Social Security, yet will pay into it for most of our lives. Thank God I come from a family that allows me to go to school without needing student loans, but for those who do, I feel bad for them, as they will never be able to repay the loans on time and will be screwed for life credit-wise. Mind you, credit is a good thing in this economy, as it does fuel growth and has for decades. I have no problem with private sector credit to those who can pay it back because it reduces opportunity costs of spending money (gives you the ability to do both with a cost of interest, rather than doing one with the opportunity cost of the other). But it is true that debt is a good thing, so long as we grow to match the debt increase and the debt is in the private sector, not the public. I disagree with government credit growing exponentially, but private credit should and needs to grow. Private credit, especially to small businesses and start-ups, is the pulse of this economy and it is basically dead currently.

I hate to rain on everyone's parade (even though it is raining outside) but this is the new normal in which we live in, where politicians promise the moon without debt, realize they can't give us the moon, end up borrowing the money anyways, and then screw over the youth. We need politics with a long term time horizon, not the next election. We need the Buffett rule (not the tax rule), the one in which if the current congress incurs a deficit of more than x% (the nuber varies based on GDP growth, so in recesions we can have stimulus), the current congress gets kicked out and cannot run for 1 elections term. This will incentivize deficit reduction for politicians. It can be instituted by the states, because if 2/3 of the states ratify a national proposal, then it becomes national law.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:58 | 1788844 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture


I think you need to make a distinction in how debt is sourced. I don't have any problem with debt that's sourced from genuine savings, that itself is the byproduct of genuine production of wealth created honestly through a consensually operating market.

Debt sourced from expanding credit and money supply, on the other hand, is horribly destructive to an economy because it constantly rearranges wealth from those actually capable of producing it, and redirects it (no differently than welfare) to those wanting loans.

Moreover, it disrupts the natural pricing signal that the interest rate provides on the scarcity of available funds to loan.  The Fed is nothing but a price fixer on the price of money, and this distortion causes entrepreneurs and other borrowers to horribly miscalculate economic reality.  (e.g., the housing bubble would have been short-circuited by rising rates before ever getting off the ground had the interest rate rose to reflect demand for money via housing loans.  Think of all the time wasting, complex regulation they've proposed and had in place previously just to prevent what a simple market floating interest rate actually accomplishes???)

Furthermore, printing money essentially steals wealth from wealth holders and transfers it via purchasing power to the first users of freshly minted $$'s.   It allows first users --(normally banks doing the lending via fractional reserve multiplier, etc),  those who have created absolutely no wealth benefit for their suddenly acquired purchasing power to exchange that nothing for something people actually have to produce through sacrifice and forgone consumption (e.g. the roots of all production and wealth creation is putting off immediate gratification / consumption in order to create something greater.)

Now, as an aside, if you or I do that -- Print a billion in the basement and try to do a few business deals with it, they'll lock us up lickity-spit!  But if a bank does it, it's "helping the economy grow"... AS if you and I aren't ALSO stimulating the local economy?   Why is it illegal for us?  Because IT IS STEALING, PLAIN AND SIMPLE!   Banks are, for all purposes, granted the right to counterfeit and steal from all dollar holders.

Collectively put, bad debt as described above has looted the economic seed-corn of the U.S. economy and squandered it badly.  Repeating this looting through additional money/debt-from-thin-air creation is giving the patient the pathogen that's killing him as a cure. 

We will only return to genuine growth by ridding us of this twisted system of looting and fraud, and rebuilding our seed corn patiently, and from the ground floor back up.  Let's hope enough honest folks have enough guns and grit to ward off the marauding hordes of looters, murderers and marauders who will roam the streets when the welfare checks end and the regulatory web collapses, forcing parasites of all stripes and colors to actually produce stuff that they must exchange through others consent rather than getting a living through the collective and its legislated monopoly, oligarchies, arbitrary regulation, and just plain, blatant redistribution, etc.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:13 | 1788970 Imminent Collapse
Imminent Collapse's picture

Very perceptive analysis.  The market is being unfairly criticized for the shenanigans of the Fed and the banks.  I'm not sure how to fix the problem, but I have assumed that it will only stop when we hit the wall.  Then the mauradering looters will be a problem.  No good solution I can see, but the problem is apparent.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:41 | 1789088 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

I was thinking the other day that we are not headed towards a wall. We are driving a car that has lost coolant down the highway. Pushing the gas may help cool the engine with more wind but sooner or later the engine is going to overheat and seize. This better exhibits how we are going. We don't know where or when it will seize. There is no clear wall that we will run into. And the engine can be fixed but it has to be stopped and reset. Ron Paul is like the blinking engine light. We have gotten away ignoring him for 30 years but that doesn't mean we can continue to indefinitely. Also, waiting until the engine seizes up is a lot worse than pulling over and avoiding complete meltdown.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 19:23 | 1790785 buyingsterling
buyingsterling's picture

great analogy

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:48 | 1789117 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture

I have often said, it is like smoking for 60 years and being diagnosed with cancer.  Not many good options, and the only real one was ignored 60 years earlier.  Surely, quitting along the way would have helped, but generally speaking, most all smokers pay a price of some sort down the road.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 13:31 | 1789234 saiybat
saiybat's picture

The market is the perfect storm and it's not an accident. You don't fix a ponzi. Regardless what the priests say there are analysts out there that know basic arithmetic and do quite a good job but that's not for public consumption. What do they have planned for us once they tear down this system in its current form?

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 17:32 | 1790418 Things that go bump
Things that go bump's picture

6.5 billion dead.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 13:31 | 1789524 saiybat
saiybat's picture


Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:52 | 1789144 Clark Bent
Clark Bent's picture

Leo, I wish't that I had heard this explanation spilling out of the mouth of one of our Presidential candidates...that would be rapture. And it might permit correction to occur without the necessity of bloodshed, which seems daily more inevitable to me. 

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:25 | 1789297 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Dear Mkantern & LBScotch,

Do either of you believe that the Baby Boom's ongoing orgy of Destruction will stop before it is no longer profitable to do so? That the Free Love, Make War, Entitlement & Crony Generation's looting of America will stop before every last cent has been scrounged down and wasted?

I don't. Uncle Scam & the Bloodsucking Lobbies behind him have their hooks in everything now, from Law to Education to Commerce to Warfare to Welfare to Health Care, from Sea to Shining Sea, Amen. They are not going anywhere, anytime soon, and their name is Legion.

The USA of tomorrow is either a smoking, glassy hole or a Marxist Hellhole, take your pick.

Instead, forward thinking people must begin now to craft an independent, voluntary society, one that will hold beyond the systemic crash we all know is coming. Tradesmen, Specialists, Professionals & Producers can adopt a different common currency today, and devise means of exchange to avoid the Parasite-driven, Debt-based, Engine of Destruction.

When their system crashes, perhaps we will already have devised its replacement. Or at least a means of survival and a viable division of civilization.



Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:37 | 1788788 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

don't hate your youth - it's pure wealth

any seriously old fart with a billion gold bars would change places with you

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:44 | 1788827 AmericanFUPAcabra
AmericanFUPAcabra's picture

Id take arthritic joints and a leaky wenis for some gold bars any day.

"fast enough for you, old man"

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:32 | 1789039 Bicycle Repairman
Bicycle Repairman's picture

You are a fool.  Of course I'm assuming that I'd get to keep my hard earned wisdom (relatively speaking), if I made the trade.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 14:30 | 1789787 BigJim
BigJim's picture

No, if you trade, you really trade.

So you get the constant libido, poor impulse control, poverty, and general ignorance of yer typical youngster.

Still wanna trade?

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 10:44 | 1788817 stirners_ghost
stirners_ghost's picture

"We need politics"

And that's why you'll remain a serf.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:56 | 1788838 Leopold B. Scotch
Leopold B. Scotch's picture

This kid's complaining about being young.  Meanwhile, he's got tons of hard-body coeds at his beck-and-call who grew up learning all you need to know about love and extra-curriculars from the Internet, which has democratized a certain subset of the film industry making the details performed therein near mainstream commonplace for his generation.

We middle-agers, teens in the early / mid 80s, had the preppy handbook and new wave music and film as a guide to life and love, almost a backlash against the 60s-70s free love / Animal House capstone.

I hear these stories.  What the hell is this kid complaining about?

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:00 | 1788911 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

The current mini-generation of ages 18-25 is truly screwed because the economy isn't expanding, no new breakthrough technologies like the Internet are upon us, you have enormous student loan debts, and 40- and 50-year old workers are holding on to their jobs for dear life. The best thing you could do would be to actively work to bring the current system down. Otherwise, extend-and-pretend will draw things out long enough so the next generation will have some opportunity and you will be in your 30's with no useful job experience - a lost generation. I'm not being a hater, but that's what I see.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:19 | 1788994 tsx500
tsx500's picture

the best thing for the younger generation would be for RON PAUL to get elected !    i'm quite confident that he would not 'extend-and-pretend' .     RON PAUL 2012 !

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:23 | 1789002 Ragnar24
Ragnar24's picture

Bring the system down? How'd that work out for Egyptian youth?  How'd it work for the Hippies in the 60's?  How about the French Revolution that gave way to Napoleon? 

Think before posting Elvis.  The best thing the 18-35 crowd can do is learn HISTORY and RESTORE the system to its pre-1913 status. 

The American Revolution was the only one that's worked because the revolutionaries were self-educated men that used REASON and Nature's Law to create a REPUBLIC -- not the thoughtless "democracy" sought by youth uprisings... these democracies lead to one thing only: TYRANNY.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:35 | 1789053 LFMayor
LFMayor's picture

Good call.

They didn't bring about shit, did they?  They got rid of one military figure head and he was replaced by the the same group that elevated him, the military.
Why didn't the protestors get the changes they desired?  Because they didn't have any guns.  Or enough education to realize that they needed guns to make changes. 
No guns = no power.  Mao got that part dead on bubble right.

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 13:44 | 1789573 karzai_luver
karzai_luver's picture

1 minute rice tools like you need to stay out of this type of talk.


You would have left our own battle after a few losses it seems.

This place took HOW long to get started again????


Of course we are still working or should be working on it seems to me.




Wed, 10/19/2011 - 11:48 | 1789105 ElvisDog
ElvisDog's picture

learn HISTORY and RESTORE the system to its pre-1913 status

Which ... would ... be ... the same as bringing the current system down?

Wed, 10/19/2011 - 12:17 | 1789262 Ragnar24
Ragnar24's picture

No.  "Bringing the system down" infers destroying the system and starting from scratch.  Holding a Constitutional Convention is NOT destroying the system or the Constitution -- it could institute term limits, restore state's right through the repeal of the 17th Amendment, and it could abolish the Fed. 

The mob rule that comes out of "bringing the system down" would never take the time to read Cicero or even the Federalist Papers to learn why the current system is MOSTLY the best thing that ever happened to mankind -- again, BEFORE it was stripped of checks and balances (starting with the Fed, and the slow erosion of states' rights). 

OWS protestors who share your view might prefer Marxism because it sounds so lovely!  Debt forgiven! yay! Children will swim in chocolate rivers with gumdrop smiles and everyone will love one another!  Until a dictator wants to fill the power vacuum.

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