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Sean Corrigan On The Tenth Anniversary

Tyler Durden's picture


Sean Corrigan of Diapason Securities, on the ten year anniversary, a look back on the day after.

A Modest Craft

Sept 12 2001

It is at times like these that we in the financial sector are humbled in the presumption of our own importance and of the meaning of our works. Daily, we chase the ebb and flow of symbols and numbers across the screens and ticker tapes of the world, seeking to distill from them a fleeting pattern, or to recognize within them some more enduring form.

Rarely, if ever, amid the hubbub of the trading room or the raw intensity of the Pit, do we reflect on the power of such symbols. We crane for each flickering change in a terse alphanumeric—USZ1, DELL, CPI +0.2%, DAX +150—each of us striving uselessly, but compulsively, to see it before our peers do, or, with a little more purpose, to interpret it more quickly than they.

These electronic lights represent a stock, a bond, a currency; of that much we remain aware. But the stocks or bonds themselves are but symbols: a claim to the ownership of a minuscule fraction of some sprawling enterprise, or a right to receive payment from it in days to come.

Again, that payment—in dollars, or euros, or yen—is another symbol: a sign that men have "laboured the earth," in Jefferson’s trenchant phrase, and that they seek to exchange the fruits of those labours for our own.

This is where the chain of ciphers and sigils leads us at last, then—to the efforts of ordinary men and women going about their daily lives, working at one thing, the thing at which they are most competent, in order to swap their efforts for other things, for a whole diversity of things, made, in turn, by countless, faceless others doing what they are good at, too.

By such free and open exchange, best conducted using fair and honest chains of symbols so that no man is unwittingly deluded or knowingly defrauded in the act, we each seek to serve our enlightened self-interest and satisfy both basic needs and wider aspirations. We find the opportunity where we are most rewarded, and we send out our labours into the vast, teeming, immaterial, immanent Market that is our world.

And—O Mirabile—what things come back, in what profusion, pouring in from all corners of the globe, from people we have never seen, whom we will never see, and who equally are oblivious to our very existence also.

This is the majesty of the free market, of capitalism, this self-organizing scheme that most fully utilizes our jewelled planet’s greatest resource—humanity itself—so that the masses of today live better than all the fearsome khans and haughty emperors of old.

But on Tuesday, out of a clear autumnal sky, all this was put at deadly hazard by earnest men, albeit men whose earnestness had been twisted into suicidal hatred by the potent brew of fanaticism and despair. By their intricate assault on the good people of the U.S., these men showed that they were versed in the power of symbols all too well.

To attack the Pentagon—a cabbalistic form, if ever there was one—was shocking enough, displaying what guerrilla fighters have shown from time immemorial: that all of Caesar’s legions cannot guard against the man who fears nothing but to fail, and who holds his life most gloriously spent in depriving his enemies of theirs.

But far more shocking yet was the strike deep into the very heart of trade, of commerce, and of finance that those few crammed canyons of soaring steel and glittering glass at the tip of Manhattan represented, not just to America, but to the entire world. This was not just an abomination: in many ways, it was a deliberate act of sacrilege.

In tens of minutes, before unbelieving eyes staring from the streets below or gazing in horrid fascination at TV screens across the globe, fireball billowed into smoke and then collapse: crushing, utter, complete and roaring collapse.

As though struck from where they stretched unto the very portals of some jealous god to choking dust and stumbling rubble, they fell in ruinous descent, and Hope itself seemed perished.

The Twin Towers, standing symbolically over Wall Street, were a 1,300-foot rendition of those two, short verticals that transform a mere "S" into a dollar, transmuting it to a symbol for work and wealth and well-being across the Earth.

The enormity of the towers' swift destruction has been such as to suspend analysis. We have yet to truly register what has been done, how many lives have been lost in screaming (if mercifully brief) terror, how many countless other lives will bear the mark of what was wrought, shivering in the cold snatch of fear each time they see the suddenly naked skyline of New York.

It would be heartening to think that sober wisdom will now occasion restraint in the councils of the powerful, that the understandable desire for retribution, for lex talionis, to be invoked neither will lead to rash and unjust acts that only serve to excite more hatred, nor open up the way for the ever-eager State to intrude more insidiously in people’s lives at home, while snarling ever more belligerently at foes—real or imagined—abroad.

It would be heartening to believe that in America of all nations, the brash, young, self-confidence of its people will swiftly reassert itself, that temperance will season justice, and that this brief, vicarious brush with mortality will give rise to a more measured outlook on life.

It would be heartening to think that, having been shocked by just how fragile is the framework on which we build our dreams, we will become less prone to forcing them upon others. Our fear must be that, in a world already made fractious and divided by the inexorable, UN-inspired, left-liberal-sanctioned politicizing of race and creed and gender, a world made insecure by the erosion of freedom and the imposition of alien values by the Guardians of our global Platonic republic, yet more discord is sown.

We must also fear that, in a world made resentful by seeing the fruits of its labours channelled to vainglorious corporate demi-gods who strut the stage like Achilles simply because a hyperactive credit system has grossly inflated their stock price, Capitalism is made to take the blame.

Capitalism is about the better production of wealth and its distribution through unrestricted exchange. It is about the multiplication of output that comes about by the division of labour. It is about the preservation of capital—those mental and physical tools that build each successive flight on our long stairway out of penury and deprivation—and it achieves that preservation only by the common virtue of thrift and the duty of stewardship on one hand, and by the banishment of envy and the sanctity of property upon the other. 

Capitalism is about "labouring the earth" more fruitfully so that fewer men go needy, so that the next fanatic finds less willing recruits, so that amid bustling commercial intercourse, barriers of class and race and ignorance are dissolved into mutual respect and benefit.

Capitalism is nothing to do with the agents of the Crown who sail alongside the honest argosies of trade. Capitalism is nothing to do, either, with the forced acceptance of any creed or code of law, save that of the honest self-interest by which both buyer and seller achieve an increment of value in their exchange.

For we must realize that Capitalism, this most certain route to prosperity devised by man, is also the victim of the exactions of the State and the depredations of the credit system. Why else, even before yesterday’s barbaric deeds, were we increasingly in peril of our livelihoods, our investments, and our savings?

Sadly, that is a verity too rarely glimpsed when the battle ensigns of the fleet and the Jolly Rogers of the corsairs are concealed amid the merry, ingenuous bunting of the mass of ordinary merchantmen seeking innocently to ply their trade.

From this passing meditation on these matters, which this week’s dark happenings have prompted, we shall soon return to the business of chasing symbols and trying to make sense of them. That is, after all, our modest craft in the rich whirl of the market.

For today, we pray for the maimed and the bereaved. We are anxious for the path of the economy and our immediate prosperity. We fret that liberty will once again be the most enduring loser.

In memoriam,

Sean Corrigan

Chief Investment Strategist

Diapason Commodities Management S.A.


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Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:01 | 1654684 TrembleTheDevil
TrembleTheDevil's picture

With all of the breathless media coverage going on about an impending 9/11 anniversary-revenge attack this article provides an interesting counter-point: that terrorists are mostly pretty stupid.

Top 10 Reasons You Shouldn't Be Afraid of the Terrorists

My personal favorite:

7. Terrorists in the cell caught by an FBI-NYPD sting in the Bronx were called “intellectually challenged” by their lawyer, said they were high when they were arrested, and claimed that the FBI entrapped them with fried chicken.

It's got some interesting anecdotal tidbits, and ends with what I think maybe should have been at the top:

Political Terrorism is a gyre that’s only set into motion when fear and panic cause the target to overreact with disproportionate violence, which draws sympathizers into the terrorist fold and creates justification for further attacks. If we don’t lose our shit – the terrorists lose.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:21 | 1655151 Earl of Chiswick
Earl of Chiswick's picture




I just heard that Mayor Bloomberg  specifically excluded the first responders from the 9/11 ceremonies.


But for some reason there is no information of this on

perhaps we should ask Tom Keene


"Due to 'lack of room,' NYC police officers, Port Authority police officers and FDNY firefighters are not 'invited' to the 10th anniversary of 9/11 at ground zero. Bloomberg defended the exclusion of first responders from the ceremony, saying that there was not enough space

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 20:11 | 1655380 Michael
Michael's picture

Most people believe 9/11 was an inside job and the collapse of building 7 was controlled demolition by our own government. So do most 9/11 first responders. That's why they are excluded from the ceremonies.

I won't be watching any news coverage of the anniversary for that reason.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 20:56 | 1655462 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Right on Michael! I become naseous when I watch propaganda!

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 00:42 | 1655722 Juan Wild
Juan Wild's picture

me too Tuco.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 06:15 | 1655853 spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

Is bin Laden’s war on America being won through American debt acquisition? Let’s look at the debt — all $15 trillion of it — and decide for ourselves 

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 22:01 | 1655521 Fiat2Zero
Fiat2Zero's picture

I have an interesting spin on the "missing gold," which is a motive people mention for 9/11 as an inside job.

Apparently around 1200 tons of gold reported, went missing. In looking at who owned the gold, most of it was from the COMEX (not sure whose vaults).

What if the gold was reported incorrectly? With all I've seen, COMEX fraud in the reporting realm is a virtual certainty.

Maybe there is an Occam's razor corollary to accept the simpler conspiracy theory.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 22:27 | 1655556 Market Efficien...
Market Efficiency Romantic's picture

The perfect bank job, create a fake virtual deposit and let some stupid thug rob the bank, No matter, if they catch him or not, he will be questioned about the remainder of the deposits and the fake deposits are de-facto created.

There is a movie depicting that exact plot, well it involved compromitting MI5 files, totally forgot the equivalent of these, aka SEC files were stored in the same building as the 1200 tons of gold, as were CIA files. Follow the trail of the FEMA agent that was sent into the debree of WTC 7 and found an emptied basement instead of a destroyed one. He is living in Argentina and not being extradited despite US requests.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 22:40 | 1655568 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

One of the trucks that was transporting the gold from the twin towers was found in one of the service exits full of gold , so was the gold taken or was there no gold but given the idea it all had been taken by the truck in the service tunnel , and can you belive people still think it  was a terrorist job , guess you cant fix stupid .

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 00:16 | 1655683 Michael
Michael's picture

A complete and total worldwide economic collapse of biblical proportions should be enough to put an end to all the illegal US government sponsored terrorist activities.

I already placed the order for it to be delivered on October 10th and 11th, 2011.

Thank me.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 09:10 | 1655944 long-shorty
long-shorty's picture

I understand that this site is largely read by people with minds more open to different ideas than the general population, but the fact that Michael's post could get 16 ups and 3 downs is a sure sign that the cluster A personality disorders are vastly over-represented here.

There have always been awful things that sometimes happen that people find hard to grasp. Some cultures have blamed angry gods; at the present time in America it is popular to blame our government. There is no need to be a believer in conspiracy to see the way corporate money has transformed our political system. It's right there in the open. And there's no need to make up horrible misdeeds that our government has committed--just read a little Chomsky.

But the Michaels of the world, with their tin hat conspiracies about a few Jews in a room somewhere running the world, they just discredit rational thought.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 11:58 | 1656226 Hive Raid
Hive Raid's picture

Chomsky is a Jew traitor. He lost all credibility when he denied the blatant truth about 9/11. It was impressive to see the old gnome seething with hostility when students presented him with the facts. In the same discussion, he had the chutzpah to say "what does it matter who shot JFK?!" ... It matters because the people who did it are the people who run things from behind the scenes. Some truth is just too true for the old huckster--especially regarding the Jew-orchestrated mass murder of Americans to justify the mass murder of Muslims and a new American police state.

Watch these documentaries for starters before dribbling more Freudian slander:

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 23:44 | 1655650 Tedster
Tedster's picture

Funny, there was plenty of room for 1500 smashed and pulverized bodies of the slain.

The whole saga is one of supreme sadness because of all the admonishments to "never forget". No problem there - I'll always remember that this slaughter was entirely preventable and was absurdly easy to pull off because of positive steps and policies our government required, from immigration policies, to beauracratic red-tape with respect to intelligence, even policies ingrained "give the hijackers what they want".

The "politically correct" policies of the last several decades are nothing more than poison, that's what we need to remember.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 10:14 | 1655995 williambanzai7
williambanzai7's picture

And now everyone is put on red alert to look for three boogeyman of unknown description driving stolen trucks. Is this out of a comic book or what?

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:43 | 1654793 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

But Rummer claims we need to spend more trillions on the defense budget or these fried chicken eating stoners will blow us all to bits.   

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:57 | 1655040 trav7777
trav7777's picture

agree...I am 911'd OUT. JFC, people let it go. This nation just wants to perpetually live in victimhood. Fuckin 10, 15 thousand died in a tsunami in Japan, 250k in the Xmas tsunami in indonesia and we're turning this into an orgy of "why oh why us."

JFC, we have troops in 100 countries, have been bombing all over the earth and we expected people to thank us for this shit? 

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 17:48 | 1655112 BigJim
BigJim's picture

I'll say this for you, Trav: when you're right, you're right.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 03:10 | 1655791 BigDuke6
BigDuke6's picture

As a sign of respect for the fallen soldiers of the USA I read these stats in my Sunday paper and in my inebriated state have staggered around to find them.
I type them , fuck I miss c and p

War costs since 9/11. $2,516,000,000,000
Of this War funding costs. 1,649,000,000,000
Projected war funding 2012 to 2016. 278,000,000,000
Future care of veterans. 589,000,000,000

Bush was a fucking idiot to fall for it all hook line and sinker.
From those figures the saving will come from the care of the vets.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 04:48 | 1655831 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

bush did not fall for it.

the event gave him a lot of leeway in pushing his agenda, whether or not he was in on it.

if 9/11 hadn't happened, he would've had a lot of incentive to make it happen.

just sayin'

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 10:08 | 1655987 realitybiter
realitybiter's picture

I voted for W twice, sent him a letter at the end of the second term demanding the pardon of Campeon and Ramos, else I would forever refer to taking a dump as "a Bush" and do my darndest to move it into popular lexicon.....

I watched the interview he had televised recently.  It was clear that on on 9/11 there was an orchestrated effort to keep him out of the loop.  He was out of communication, for hours....  "For some reason the phones weren't working.  Dick Cheney was in charge."  They flew him around, cut the communication, until it was all over and all planes had hit there intended targets....(except 93)

I kid you not.  W ain't that bright.  Bigus Dikus was large and in charge.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:08 | 1655138 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

we cry for 9/11 as we have a hand in NATO bombing the marvelous water system in Libya

what a bunch of greedy, jealous hypocrites we have become

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:56 | 1655221 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

i can't do 911....

911 is an anchorman with a lump in his throat.

911 is 10,000 back-slapping contractors and Bush "Pioneers" with flag lapel pins and big shit-eating grins.

911 turned America into a "Homeland" and 3rd world populations into test subjects for some "pretty neat" 21st century weapons systems.

911 gave us EIGHT years of motherfucking incurious GEORGE and some of the shittiest country music ever created.

911 saw a country masturbate death...with a security camera to record the proceedings as the Rodent Freikorp cleaned its arsenal with the Constitution and the kleptocracy went into hyperdrive....

oh yeah, and endless war.....endless war

Take off your shoes Amerika and pour a 40, It's "911 Day"...

911....Who gives a shit

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 20:47 | 1655441 Michael
Sun, 09/11/2011 - 08:29 | 1655900 chindit13
chindit13's picture

You'd give a shit if you lost someone dear to you.  So fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck fuck you to hell, asshole.

Funny how all the ZH community came out yesterday to offer condolences to somebody's mother.  You didn't know the woman, and you don't even know whose mother she was.  Then on a day when many people, American and otherwise, and on this same website, are remembering losses, all you can say is "who gives a shit?"

Again, fuck you and your entire gene pool to hell.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 10:17 | 1655998 realitybiter
realitybiter's picture

I think you misunderstand.


I went to 9 11 this Summer.  It was a long trip.  I took the whole clan, it wasn't cheap either.  

As I stood in front of the Fireman Memorial it took all the strength I had to choke back my tears.  I was really sad.  It was that pit of your stomach, sucker punched sadness that washes over you like a rogue wave from behind.

Why was I sad?  I was sad because great, innocent, free people got wiped off the face of the earth.  Inside job or not, I could not help but feel that all of these lives were lost because we are a nation of f ups.  From the idiots that gave the terrorists IDs to the management of the CIA and FBI, to the stooges now that feel that all we have to do is piss away a trillion dollars a year into an Arab rathole and it will all be better....we are a bunch of F ups.   And still-

those innocent folks are dead.

that is sad.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 11:42 | 1656161 chindit13
chindit13's picture

I have no argument with what you said.  I am a believer in the incompetence and turf protection explanation for 911.  I was against the Iraq War, have nothing but contempt for Cheney and his browbeating of Tenet and championing of the Iraq invasion, and hate getting fondled by the TSA.  I know the terrorists won on 911 because, contrary to what Dubya said, we did let "these people, the terrorists, change our way of life".

I am also against the victimhood we seem to have embraced since 911.  I have experienced my losses, but I don't need to go to NYC or Washington to put them on display.  At the same time, I do not appreciate some of the callous comments made by people who do not know that loss.  Don't watch it if it bothers you, but respect others' feelings.

That being said, the conspiratorialists irritate me no end.  While some small minority of them are well intentioned, most are folks who just want to hate.  They are not about to listen to anything that conflicts with their pre-conceived view of how things are.  They are sheeple who insist it is everyone else who is a sheeple.  In the meantime, al Qaeda wins.

I am not of the view that US policy has nothing to do with the hate the US receives from the Moslem world.  At the same time, having a good deal of experience in the Islamic world and as a speaker of Arabic, I know that US policy is not the sole cause of what drives fanatical Islam.  Those who believe otherwise are naive.

So I prefer a two pronged approach.  The first is not creating any unnecessary enemies via bad policy and indifference to the suffering of non-US citizens.  The second is being aware that even that will not be enough for those who think spirituality lies in doing away with those who will not accept certain beliefs.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 13:43 | 1656401 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

sorry Chindit, but some people were killed in a murder/suicide yesterday in Orange County. Yet the remnant of that family doesn't get to enjoy the Spectacle of a national mourning service every year. 

My mom died 3 years ago, my dad 10 years gone my twin brother 15. So you see, i have lost people dear to me. I don't demand that the ZH "community" commemorate my losses each would be pretty frickin narcissistic of me if i did.

Some of us though do have a shared memory, reagrd and sense of loss for a country once considered to be the "last best hope of mankind" wounded by a stranger, finished off by her own relations... That's where you'll find me bitter.

I have two kids, by the way — 5 & 18...

Damn MY gene pool to hell?  say that to my face, you'll be crawling in your own personal Ground Zero.

THESE are your mourning peers Chindit...


Sun, 09/11/2011 - 14:50 | 1656863 chindit13
chindit13's picture

No, you should not expect people to mourn, but at the same time, I doubt you would take kindly to someone stating on your own day of remembrance, "I don't give a shit".

There is a difference between dwelling on victimhood and lack of respect.  Some people lost children that day.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 11:44 | 1656170 Rodent Freikorps
Rodent Freikorps's picture

Amen, Chindit.

That rant just rocked.

Mon, 09/12/2011 - 06:22 | 1658815 chindit13
chindit13's picture

This is one post I regret having made.  To Bananamerican, I'm sorry.

In future remembrances, which I always believed should have been private and personal reflections and not national displays, I will quietly reflect, and do it away from any and all media.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 10:11 | 1655993 realitybiter
realitybiter's picture

911 is a Joke


Public Enemy in what? 1989?

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 09:00 | 1655934 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

You don't have to worry about war criminal trials as long as you win. You don't have to worry about it being reported in a controlled media. That is the beauty of totalitarian socialism- we take our biggest monsters and make heroes out of them. We are heartless, jingoistic, pathetic cowards hiding behind the biggest gun. We even kill our own. Happy 9/11.

Thank you Soros.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 20:46 | 1655440 monoloco
monoloco's picture

It was the American equivalent of the burning of the Reichstag.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 04:21 | 1655820 dolly madison
dolly madison's picture

And unfortunately I fell for it hook, line and sinker back then.  I remember being glad that George Bush was president.  That he would be better to handle it than Gore.  I am so tired of being fooled by them.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 20:53 | 1655456 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

And I bet none of the persons mentioned above are/were loved ones or relatives of yours, if such an entity exists?!

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 00:22 | 1655697 Abitdodgie
Abitdodgie's picture

NO but one of the 50,000 Libyans was , so who gives a fuck about 3,000 supporters of a terrorist Government, after all most of the Jews were at home that day

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 21:03 | 1655472 Transformer
Transformer's picture

hey trav, I respect a lot what you write here, but you're missing the whole point.  Of course we're 911'd out.  We have an idea of what really happened.  It aint us, the people, turning it into an orgy of why oh why us.  It's the elites/banksters/politicos trying to hang on to some part of the middle class.  Only the stupid and normalcy biased still believe this shit.  I can't watch it either.  Our local news had a segment of a local fireman being invited to go to the event.  He was all proud and saying how much respect he had for the NYFD.  somebody forgot to tell him they were banned from the event.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 21:56 | 1655516 Blano
Blano's picture

Gotta agree with you too on this one trav. I purposely avoid all 9/11 items on TV (which is easier when you don't have cable) and am purposely going to church late tomorrow to miss some 9/11 remembrance thing at the beginning of the service. 

I'm disgusted with the direction this country has taken since 9/11.  All these remembering thingys are IMHO designed to make every one "feel good," while ignoring and/or steering the people away from the fact that we're either no longer a free country, or soon will be.  But if I said that to anyone in church, I might get thrown out.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:59 | 1655046 Thomas
Thomas's picture

I'm still shocked that they attacked building 7.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:09 | 1655142 Thomas
Thomas's picture

I posted this video on my course website. Not a lot of eyeballs yet but it is well done...

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:29 | 1655170 Earl of Chiswick
Earl of Chiswick's picture

Thanks that is quite the professional presentation (just started watching)

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 19:31 | 1655317 chubbar
chubbar's picture

That video is the longer version of many I've watched over the years. Basically it is science. The video covers the science and the many reasons why it is IMPOSSIBLE for bldg 7 to have collapsed the way it did.

Anyone who disputes these facts are either completely delusional or a card carrying member of the NWO.

It's hard for me to understand the evil that has to exist for something of this nature to have been carried out. It only serves to brace me for what I understand will be life changing events on the near horizon. This monstrosity cannot be allowed to gain a foothold in the collective consciousness of america. "They" will kick over the card table before they are forced to show their hand. Middle america must remain unaware of their dispicable acts or it is game over for them, they will not allow that to happen. Expect yet ANOTHER false flag event!

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 20:58 | 1655464 trav7777
trav7777's picture

if it was impossible for 7 to collapse the way it did, then how did it collapse the way it did?

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 21:42 | 1655511 Old. No. 7
Old. No. 7's picture

Watch the film.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 22:15 | 1655535 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Watch it and get back to us when you have an opinion

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 23:17 | 1655607 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

Good question Trav! Why don't you ask that BBC reporter who reported the collapse of building 7 a full 20 minutes before it collapsed.  You can see the buidling over her left shoulder still standing during her report.  Don't bother watching the video though Trav.   I am sure you would deny that the building is still standing.  Ha, ha.  How much do the feds pay you to do their dirty work or perhaps you are not a real person at all, but a sock puppet?!

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 08:31 | 1655911 Cthonic
Cthonic's picture

I think Trav is merely quibbling with the way the statement is worded.  It's missing some phrasal cues: "The video covers the science and the many reasons why [some believe] it is IMPOSSIBLE for bldg 7 to have collapsed the way [NIST claims] it did."

To be sure, the early reporting of the Salomon Bros. building's fate is a highly damning media artifact; it's no wonder that BBC 'lost' that tape.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 09:10 | 1655943 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Have you asked her?  You think there wasn't just a little bit of confusion that day?  Did you know what a WTC7 was and what it looked like on 9-10-2001?  And do you think the "conspirators" would need to send press releases to foreign news sources just to make sure they didn't miss the collapse of a 47-story building?  Do you think a "conspirator" would risk getting caught for something so unnecessary, or do you think the BBC and all of its cub reporters were also "in on it"?


Sun, 09/11/2011 - 10:49 | 1656030 Seer
Seer's picture

Building is reported as collapsing and it's still standing.  FACT

MSM gets its marching orders, er, a, "news" segements from "official" sources and then just passes them along...  Have people not read Orwell?  Don't get it that there's next to NO independent invetigative reporting any more?

Yet, rather than admit to the facts, you, and others like you, would have us try to SOLVE a crime before it's even brought to trial!  How about we actually open up a case and have REAL investigations?  Shit, I'd settle for an opprotunity to educate people about gravity (yeah, novel concept).

Manhattan Project.  How come nothing was leaked on this?

Tough questions make people think.  Sometimes people have the brain cells to think with, sometimes not...


Sun, 09/11/2011 - 11:54 | 1656212 chindit13
chindit13's picture

My god, logic deserts people.  What possible advantage would "conspiratorialists" have pre-releasing information and risking getting caught?  Do you think the conspiratorialists thought the media might miss  the collapse of a 47 story building and needed a feed?

Admit it, before 911 you couldn't have picked WTC7 out from a crowd of two.  Same with BBC reporters.  There was a lot of confusion on that day.  It amazes me that some people think that some group was so clever and almost omnipotent that they could pull off this operation, yet were so stupid that they insisted on sending cheat sheets to---not just domestic---but international media, and did it before the fact.

If that is what reality and logic are up against, reality and logic lose.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 10:16 | 1655996 Blankman
Blankman's picture

You wonder how it is possible for these people (.gov) to kill ~4000 individuals in a single attack... do you ever wonder how it is they can send some of our best and brightest into the line of battle without blinking an eye.  Not much difference.  We see them as people they see them as collateral damage.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:45 | 1655203 Mo Bius
Mo Bius's picture

"And—O Mirabile—what things come back, in what profusion, pouring in from all corners of the globe, from people we have never seen, whom we will never see, and who equally are oblivious to our very existence also."

   This fuck is a psy-whore for the cabal. The Bush cabal did 911 with Israel's help ( it was really no coincidence that all those PNAC guys were Zionists). If you woud really like to know the motivations behind the act, see this pdf, (and send it to people far and wide):

   There is a part 2 to this document which lays out the immediately subsequent "subprime" takedown:

   You see, it is really NO COINCIDENCE that one followed the other. It is a total TAKEDOWN.

Or, watch these ytube clips, starting here:

The Military KNOWS Israel did 911 pt1  Or  see here:

Kevin Ryan, fired from NIST because he wouldn't tow the "melted steel" line of BULLSHIT, has done marvelous investigative work on the incident, like access to the towers prior to the event:

   I am verrrry disappointed in ZHedge for propagating this kind of psy-fuck. You shouldn't give them the light of day.




Sat, 09/10/2011 - 20:00 | 1655362 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

I fear my government. An entity that either allowed or is responsible for 9/11. They killed almost three thousand people and for what? Incriminating paper work? NY FED reserve gold? Who knows?

They operate in a world that would be fantasy to most of us. Their machinations, their conspiracies, their ever present attempts to control and enslave us.

It is hard to imagine the depth of their destruction nor the lengths they will go to in order to achieve it. 

I really hope these illuminati (or whatever they call themselves) are alien. It would be nice to know that humans are merely victims of the avarice and greed of a few dirtbags, working for the ??? 

Most of the people I know are great. I will be celebrating this weekend for all the humans that make us proud. I will say a prayer for ones that paid an ultimate price and the families that must carry on. However, for the inglorious bastards that make this world a slaver's paradise- may your death be timely, cruel and equal to the devastation and destruction you have created.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 01:28 | 1655761 traderjoe
traderjoe's picture

Always nice to hear from you Sean...

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 08:05 | 1655899 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Hey Joe,

Hope all is well with you and yours.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:19 | 1654720 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Good Grief, 9/11 was an inside job Sean. Pray for the victims of needless violence which was by the way in the form of sigils, but for their sake...

it was an inside job. Anyone with half a brain knows this.



Falling! And how!

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:22 | 1654742 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Rummy just said that if we cut the defense budget by one penny to balance our budget we'll all be blown up.  He knows, because he's the one who's going to give the order.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 15:56 | 1654933 pods
pods's picture

Let's just hope he is not giving a Pentagon accounting speech today.


Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:05 | 1654951 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

I think he is giving a, "when will that Trinidadian come around and change my Depends speech today?". 

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 15:38 | 1654891 WonderDawg
WonderDawg's picture

It wasn't thought to be an inside job on September 12, 2001 when this was written.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:11 | 1655144 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

really? most of the truth actually came out during the chaos in those two days

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 20:21 | 1655396 Sunshine n Lollipops
Sunshine n Lollipops's picture

I recall saying to my friend as we watched the first tower transition from its assymetrical lean to its incredible dead-vertical collapse, "Those Bush fuckers did this." That shit just didn't add up. Unless, of course, the demoliton supervisor made the determination that the top of that building was in danger of falling sideways--something definitely not part of the plan--and decided to preclude that unwanted outcome by triggering the start of the demolition sequence. Not arguing with you ORI, just pointing out that the 'irregularities' on that day sent up red flags that brought out the skeptic in some of us immediately.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 11:57 | 1656188 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

nice, dawg

and, i would say you are correct abt what was generally "thought" at that time.  i recall getting on the phone w/ my dad and watching the second "airliner" come in.  after several amazed expletives, i said, "man!  these guys are good at this!"  and dad sez:  "well, i guess so!"

interesting that ORI, didn't "intuit" that something written on the 12th and posted on the 10th might not be written this year, but at least the toy boy ad-bot got his link here for any & many to go "share w/ swami salami" off-site.  don't forget to give him yer e-mail when you go!  his puppet masters won't pay him if you don't!

you can see how "popular" he has gotten on zH for his politeness and ability to perceive the "truth" and give "others" the Big Picture.  the s.o.b. actually condescends to say of the man who wrote this ~10 years ago (paste from propaganananadist vivekananananda, below):  I hope he has seen the light too by now.  

at least oreo admitted his mistake when confronted w/ the facts.  first time for everything.  but to infer that sean_C can't see straight is pure oreo bullshit and a projection of his own deep psychosis

let's read what sean_C actually wrote (paste): But on Tuesday, out of a clear autumnal sky, all this was put at deadly hazard by earnest men, albeit men whose earnestness had been twisted into suicidal hatred by the potent brew of fanaticism and despair. By their intricate assault on the good people of the U.S., these men showed that they were versed in the power of symbols all too well.

there is no evidence that the author thought this was accomplished by "radical islamists w/ fuking box-cutterz" even on the bloody morning after.  only that it was done by earnest men.  for pete's sake, look at his final sentence! 

We fret that liberty will once again be the most enduring loser.

oreo, in his sick fuking compulsion to "be somebody" (zH's rezident prophet), even in and after his "apology" fails to discern the truly prophetic aspect of what sean_C penned, those many years agowhy?  b/c he is one clinically psycho swami salami and just comes to zH to advertiZe his "wisdom" so others can "see the light"

trav's got his number, as below, as do many of the bloggerz, some of whom, like yers trooly, dawg,  would just like to stuff his sick, ignorant head in the fuking toilet before he "flushes to zeroHegde" for the n-thousandth time

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 15:47 | 1654915 mick
mick's picture

germany won ww2?  9/11 was america attacking itself?  You are an idiot.



Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:02 | 1654943 WestVillageIdiot
WestVillageIdiot's picture

The moment Germany bombed Pearl Harbor it was in the bag for them.

It is always interesting to look back on wars and decide which country really won.  Did Japan really lose World War 2 or did it make them even stronger?  Did the U.S. win the Cold War or did it make us weak, stupid, compliant and self-involved?  On a longer timeframe losing can sometimes equal winning. 

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:10 | 1654959 Jasper M
Jasper M's picture

That's exactly what I said about what the Nazis did to the Eskimos back in '56!

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 17:01 | 1655048 Thomas
Thomas's picture

And when Canada beat the Navy Seals with baseball bats up on the ice flows (for their pelts no less).

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 17:39 | 1655103 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Totally, dude.  Don't mess with Canada.  Their intelligence agency reinforced a guy's skeleton with adamantium and gave him big claws back in the '70s, and he's basically impossible to kill now.

Short guy, too.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:43 | 1655199 Thomas
Thomas's picture

I know that guy! Plays for Montreal.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:50 | 1655217 blunderdog
blunderdog's picture

Thank goodness they've basically stopped penalizing guys for slashing.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:14 | 1654966 MichaelG
MichaelG's picture

Germany didn't go anywhere near Pearl Harbour. Japan really lost WWII because the US dropped a couple of nukes on them.

However, I'm not going to argue with the second half of your paragraph because that's not a true dichotomy: yes, America won the Cold War, but, it is now exactly as you describe. Just as with Persia, Rome, and Britain in their day.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 22:24 | 1655550 Praetor
Praetor's picture

Dude the Germany at Pearl Harbour thing is an Animal House joke.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 11:04 | 1656056 realitybiter
realitybiter's picture

don't stop him

he's on a roll.....



couldn't help myself.  Belushi was awesomely funny



shit, 4 years of college down the drain.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:01 | 1655125 BigJim
BigJim's picture

The reason this all seems wondrous paradoxical is because you are conflating subsections of a country's population for 'the country' in aggregate.

    Did Japan really lose World War 2 or did it make them even stronger?

Well, a lot of people in the Japanese forces lost their lives along with the war. I'd say they were losers. And I'd say many of the Japanese that got nuked or firebombed would probably consider themselves losers, too. Industrialists who survived the war may have got richer in the reconstruction, than they had been pre-war. They were 'winners'... at least economically. But if they lost loved ones during the war they might have considered themselves losers. Etc, etc. Most people can't decide whether they're 'losers' or 'winners' themselves, so what hope have we of judging this? And even if we were to arbitrarily define what makes 'a country' a 'winner', or 'loser', when do we apply the judgement? A year after the war? Ten years?

+1 for the Animal House reference, BTW.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 20:43 | 1655432 Arkadaba
Arkadaba's picture

Maybe more interesting to look at what powers (rather than countries) won a war. Libya is a good real time example. Nato has intervened to provide cover for civilians - yeah right. It really is a war fought by corporations over some scarce resources. 

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:06 | 1654953 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

You may have missed the dateline ORI.

We were not all so attuned to the mechanics of the act on the day after.

Now many know how and why, but the day after, no so many.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:20 | 1654983 Oh regional Indian
Oh regional Indian's picture

Oops, I did. Completely.

My apologies to SC. I hope he has seen the light too by now.


Sat, 09/10/2011 - 17:06 | 1655059 trav7777
trav7777's picture

more kookbat shit

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 19:19 | 1655284 Thomas
Thomas's picture

This is Zero Hedge, for Christ's sake. Of course it's kookbat shit.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 12:12 | 1656290 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

he's got ori pegged, too! 

swami salami~~~high prophet of kookbat shit on zH!


Sat, 09/10/2011 - 22:16 | 1655539 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Tool... you have great contributions...

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 19:05 | 1655252 Bananamerican
Bananamerican's picture

911 was not an inside job. It was a sucker punch....

but it presented multiple opportunities for both substantial profit and real-politik. The plans for Iraq were in place...the military-industrial complex is ALWAYS ready to belly up to the bar...

why the need to believe the entire clusterfuck has to begin with domestic murder?

If you lay a cupcake on the ground the ants will find it.

Why bother to suppose that the ants beamed a mind control ray at your head first?

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:16 | 1654723 DoChenRollingBearing
DoChenRollingBearing's picture

Capitalism as Sean Corrigan above describes it, free of .gov control, IS the best system, the free-est system, to bring prosperity and liberty to our world.  There is ample proof for those who want to look.

The LESS .gov the better!  But, when crooks break the law, whether banksters or other well-connected criminals, they should be thrown in jail and punished appropriately.  I see NO evidence that any of the crooks have gone to jail.

Nor are have ANY of our financial problems been solved.

Great article Tyler, thanks for putting it up.


I am not sure what I am going to do tomorrow re 10th anniversary of the worst day for America since I have been alive.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 00:26 | 1655702 Lower Class Elite
Lower Class Elite's picture

Thrown in the for-profit privately run jail, no doubt.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:16 | 1654729 props2009
props2009's picture

YEN intervention coming after SNB intervention: Japan tells G-7

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:21 | 1654736 jplotinus
jplotinus's picture

"...But on Tuesday, out of a clear autumnal sky, all this was put at deadly hazard by earnest men, albeit men whose earnestness had been twisted into suicidal hatred by the potent brew of fanaticism and despair. By their intricate assault on the good people of the U.S., these men showed that they were versed in the power of symbols all too well...."

The facts of what happened on 9/11 have not ever been accurately or validly determined by any proper forensic examination or investigation. Likewise, no valid determination of who carried out the destructive events and who perpetrated the bizarre psyop exists as yet.

Therefore, it is unwise to package and regurgitate propaganda, like that quoted here, in either an article about finance or about any other subject.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 17:18 | 1655074 trav7777
trav7777's picture

there've been manifold analyses of what happened on 911. You just don't like them because they don't cater to your tinfoil moonbat paranoia

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:04 | 1655131 BigJim
BigJim's picture

... and when you're wrong, you're wrong.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 05:13 | 1655840 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Absolutely.  And wrong is what you are.

Perhaps you are not familiar with GW's "literary" style.  It's called quote mining and context pulling.  For GW, the term "pull it" refers to how he selects his quotes.

I just watched a 911 documentary.  I'd like to relay a small segment of it to illustrate how GW works.  In fact, I fully expect him to use this exact quote in the future.

In the program, SecDef Rumsfeld was talking about the Pentagon attack.  He said, "I was sitting at a desk getting briefed on something.  I heard this loud boom and the entire building shook.  I thought it was a bomb or something."

Note the boldface.  In a future GW post, I'll bet you see this:

Rumsfeld:  "it was a bomb"

The fawning readership won't bother to follow the links nor read the quote in its full context, because they've already gotten their confirmation bias sated.

This tactic is a favorite of the moonbat sites.  Some quote "a witness who is a newspaper reporter" as saying the plane that hit the Pentagon was a "cruise missile with wings".  Sounds like proof, right?

Here is the actual quote, from USA Today reporter Mike Walter “I looked out my window (of his car) and I saw this plane, this jet, an American Airlines jet, coming.  And I thought, ‘this doesn’t add up, it’s really low’.  And I saw it.  I mean it was like a cruise missile with wings. It went right there and slammed right into the Pentagon”.

That's your team.




Sun, 09/11/2011 - 09:14 | 1655947 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

You might want to research the Pentagon "attack". The pictures at the scene show that no plane ever hit the Pentagon. That it was, in fact, a bomb, as the support structure is blown outwards. 

GW posts some very good material with better references than you. The blog even takes the time grade the quality of the source material. 

You may not be able to deal with facts regarding your government, you may enjoy sticking your head in the sand, but these actions will not bring your friends back and in the end, just dishonors their sacrifice.


Sun, 09/11/2011 - 09:45 | 1655968 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Sean, I'm in no mood today. Plenty of people watched Flight 77 strike the building.  The hole fits the plane, since it had yawed to the left before impact (after hitting five lightpoles and one generator).  Plenty of people read "American Airlines" off its aluminum skin, and the silver sheen of AA was another giveaway.  The damage is internal, and they were plenty of aircraft parts that were not consumed by the roughly 10,000 gallons of Jet-A that were still contained in the tanks when it hit.  There was an explosion of Jet-A fuel, but nothing at all comparable to a missile or bomb. 

Add to that a good friend of mine of 30 years watched the American Airlines Boeing 757 commercial jet come in low at rapid speed and strike the building.  So, fuck you.

My god, I am tired of fucking morons who think they know something because they read it on infowars.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 09:50 | 1655975 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

Don't read infowars, just studied the photographs of the crash site. I'm so tired of morons that defend this government and the Elites that run it. How do you sleep at night being a paid shill for these bastards?

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 10:45 | 1656019 chindit13
chindit13's picture

Yes, anyone smarter than you who has done plenty of study, plus spoken with eye witnesses to the plane strike (American Airlines commercial jet), has to be a "paid shill".  Apparently in your fantasy world, they "conspirators" must have run out of money and couldn't get another aircraft on 911, so had to resort to a bomb or missile.  I guess all those witnesses who saw an American Airlines silver commercial jet just mistook it for an approach to Reagan.

Really, you don't know shit.  You don't want to know shit.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 14:24 | 1656778 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

mebbe, i wasn't there, and i don't think you were, either, chin-spinnnnner

many of the peeps who doubt the "official" story wonder wtf coulda happened to the engines which are necessary for the jet "plane" to, unhhh,

as you continue your "search for t-t-t-truth" perhaps you will be kind enuf to provide the skepticZ with the answer to that one, unanswered, pesky, little, insignificant question, ok?

"eye-witnesses" come and go, and even the FBI has been known to lie to "make a case" and get the "bad guy" into the slammer where s/he "belongs"

or hadn'tcha heard, toy-boy?

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 11:53 | 1656205 Seer
Seer's picture

Fuck you and your "mood." That we should all just "forget about understanding what really happened" because of, what, your mood?

What a lame-ass excuse to AVOID facts.

You're programmed like all the other suckers out there (to believe in the conspiracy that a bunch of cave dwellers could defeat a multi-trillion dollar system).

It's amazing.  This was all supposed to have happened because "they hate our freedoms."  Here we are, being disallowed to express free speech because of someone's mood (or whatever socially acceptable programmed truth-killing crap), AND, to forget about actually practicing LAW (a real investigation).  Yeah, what a bunch of DUMB fuckers, standing up for the conspirators who tell us "that They hare our freedoms!"  Give up the right to free speech and the rule of law.

Was it Malcolm X who said that if people aren't careful the media (TV) will be telling the oppressed to love the oppressors and hate the oppressed?

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 15:15 | 1656934 chindit13
chindit13's picture

So I should remain proudly ignorant (and racist) like you?  I should cower after you toss out the “cave dweller” line, as if that is some be all-end all argument?

Do you know anything at all about the bin Laden family?  Do you know where ObL was educated?  How about Ayman al Zawahri?  What do you know?  Khalid Sheik Mohammed?  I wonder how your education and intellect compares to theirs?

How about the genesis of the operation?  What do you know?  You think they had this lightbulb moment on 9-10-2001 and got to work on it right there?  Yes, don't bother to learn anything, it might make you lose respect for your gurus at infowars.  As for the caves, do you have the slightest idea what those "caves" look like and what capabilities they had?  Then there is time....time to hand carry messages when they feared having electronic communications intercepted by the US.

And don't assume I buy the line about "hating us for our freedoms".  I am a little more well versed than that on Islam, the Middle East, and the Arab world.  I am also no fan of US Middle east policy.  At the same time, I have had enough experience in the Moslem world to know there is a radical fringe to the religion that considers non-bleievers (in Islam) infidels and that killing them is actually an act of spirituality, kind of like the way Aztec parents would give up their daughters for sacrifice.  Yes, some have a political motivation, but if you think that is all there is to it, then you best stay on your farm and hope you get lucky.  If not, I'm sure Alex Jones has got you covered.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 12:12 | 1656271 Hive Raid
Hive Raid's picture

Chindit13, I'd like to hear the thoughts of your "friend who saw the plane hit the pentagon" as to why there were pools of molten steel under all 3 collapsed buildings. Kerosene/jet fuel doesn't melt steel, nor do burnings desks and paper. However, thermite does. And thermite was found in the steel. Millions of us are also curious as to why there are no holes in the pentagon where the engines should have been on the plane wings... maybe he can share his first hand knowledge. Or, if you or him happen to work for the DOD or FBI, maybe you can just share any one of the dozens of film clips of the event which you guys confiscated and refuse to release; that would prove the official story on the pentagon.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 14:05 | 1656707 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Perhaps you are not familiar with GW's "literary" style.  It's called quote mining and context pulling.  For GW, the term "pull it" refers to how he selects his quotes.

I just watched a 911 documentary.  I'd like to relay a small segment of it to illustrate how GW works.  In fact, I fully expect him to use this exact quote in the future.

In the program, SecDef Rumsfeld was talking about the Pentagon attack.  He said, "I was sitting at a desk getting briefed on something.  I heard this loud boom and the entire building shook.  I thought it was a bomb or something."

Note the boldface.  In a future GW post, I'll bet you see this:

Rumsfeld:  "it was a bomb"

Well, that's very damning.... if it's true. Please give some examples - two will do - where GW does said quote-mining.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 15:22 | 1656954 chindit13
chindit13's picture

No. You do it yourself. It'll mean more that way. Others on ZH have already done it and called him out on it.  I suspect that is why he added the caveat in the post on Friday.  Just pick a couple of his links and follow them.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 18:21 | 1657566 BigJim
BigJim's picture

So, just to recap, you make the serious allegation that GW is dishonest, and then give examples of such dishonesty... by some unrelated people, but when asked to provide examples of his dishonesty, you insist we do the research ourselves.


Sat, 09/10/2011 - 19:41 | 1655335 chubbar
chubbar's picture

I think that you don't like them Trav because you can't handle the truth. Science is science. Name ONE steel building that collapsed from paper fires OR kerosene fires since the beginning of time? You have a degree in mechanical engineering or are an architect? No? Shut the fuck up then. You know NOTHING about what they are talking about. It is IMPOSSIBLE for a steel framed structure to free fall for 100+ feet because of fire, even if the fire could reach temperatures that could melt steel (paper and kero fires burn 1000 degress cooler)! The structure would deform first, not just give way. There is NO deformity in the films. ALL columns would have to give way completely and simultaneously for at least 10 floors. Not possible. UNDERSTAND???? Not possible. Open your mind and look at the facts!

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 21:04 | 1655473 trav7777
trav7777's picture

you're categorically incorrect. The structure would fail catastrophically exactly as it did if you weakened enough members.  That's wtf structures do.

You make several assumptions behind your initial premise that you do not offer proof for.

It is far more likely that the WTC were corroded to the point of unsafety than it is that the C fucking IA went in and wired up demolitions charges ahead of time and NOBODY NOTICED ANYTHING.

You have taken on face value that these buildings were what they TOLD YOU they were.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 22:26 | 1655554 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Why don't you read up on building 7 instead of spouting ignorance?

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 23:37 | 1655638 dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

Trav don't be a clown - many people wanted those abestos nightmares brought to rubble.  Go follow the money

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 12:06 | 1656258 Seer
Seer's picture

One minor detail which invalidates the weakened-building story- GRAVITY.

Playing games with pre-wiring or other "how did 'they' [not to mention the games of who 'they' were] do it" discussions only distracts from the very OBVIOUS point that the buildings DEFIED unaided collapse characteristics.

Go ahead, explain HOW free-fall speed can be obtained via any top-down collapse: that is, ANY collapse that's NOT rooted in foundation failure (which NONE of the WTC buildings to collapse that day were noted, by the govt/MSM, to have been weakened in their foundations).  They tried to fabricate this story, but bailed after discovering that they couldn't get people to swallow this story: had it not been for people who questioned what happened, you know, the types of people who give a shit about due-process and the law, we'd all have been firmly programmed to accept a complete rewrite of physics!

Sigh, but you want to believe the story of physics-rewritten, as it maps out to your racists underpinnings: discovering that a bunch of white people pulled this off would cause your head to explode.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 20:45 | 1655439 Tuco Benedicto ...
Tuco Benedicto Pacifico Juan Maria Ramirez's picture

"Today, the truth is a conspiracy theory." Dr. Paul Craig Roberts

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 22:18 | 1655543 Ying-Yang
Ying-Yang's picture

Trav.... you sound more and more like a dis-info bitch.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 14:39 | 1656827 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

trav is extremely "smart in the head-brain" and i value him here, even tho i don't always agree with him and sometimes he makes a colossal ass outa himself as he did on the recent string about one of the contib's mom passing

so do i;  even tyler has been known to get a thingy or two a bit wrong, once in a while

he really values IQ tests, too! he actually seems to believe they measure "intelligence" as if the ability of the head-brain to see "pattern & relationship" is all there is to "intelligence"

in spite of the fact that he has been dead wrong, here, more than once, he is neither emotionally capable of "seeing that pattern" nor, unlike ori, who is a disinfo troll, admitting it!

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 23:01 | 1655586 kahunabear
kahunabear's picture

If it was an inside job, why did they collapse like a timed demolition? Why wouldn't the insiders collapse them to do even more damage? The perfectness of it is eerie, but I see it as evidence that it wasn't an inside job.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 12:15 | 1656298 Seer
Seer's picture

Why wouldn't the insiders collapse them to do even more damage?

Great question!

The "official story" has the cave-dwellers causing the collapses via planes (except WTC 7).  Massive explosions projecting outward, which by itself the airplane version couldn't do, would have been a bit difficult to cover up.

But... you'd think that if the cave-dwellers were capable of all this that they WOULD have (if you believe the "officials" about how 'out to kill us all' these folks are) let it all fly- take out as many surrounding buildings as possible.

Demolition jobs are designed to limit damage to surrounding structures, an insurance requirement to be sure (duh).

Just think about the amount of mass that was brought down and the small amount of collateral damage to surrounding buildings!  Amazing!

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:25 | 1654750 buzzsaw99
buzzsaw99's picture

wtc was owned by joos until they "pulled it" for the insurance money.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:05 | 1654952 Denninger-is-a-...
Denninger-is-a-douche's picture

Very clever... the jews did it for $. (headslap)

They could have made that much money in a day of Goldman HFT, but instead chose to blow chit up.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:11 | 1654962 DollarMenu
DollarMenu's picture

meh, these guys are from the real estate and made-for-tv movie tribes.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:25 | 1654751 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

There's no such thing as a free market. People tend to ignore the regulations which they agree on. If there really was a "free market", we would have slaves, child labour, etc... Once this point is cleared the question arises: what is a "good" regulation then?

I hear the clamours of many for LESS .gov; yet, if you allow BIG .biz to strive and at the same time you have LESS .gov, you'll surely walk towards that TRUE free market: slaves, child labour, toxic products on the shelves, etc...

You want LESS .gov and not die in the attempt? Well, then you also must have LESS .biz. And no .biz scales down of their own free will, so go figure...

9/11? Happy teacher's day! Oh wait, that's in Argentina... Happy Pinochet's coming to power day!! I mean, that's Chile...

The people who knew the symbols weren't bearded men on caves, but right there at the top of .biz and .gov: they saw the event and acted accordingly initiating perpetual wars, eroding civil liberties, etc... And if you ask the cui bono of it all, you can't reach to another conclusion that "AT BEST" they let the attack happen. At worst... well, we all know that.

Or as Deek Jackson said (, 9/11 is a lie, everybody knows it but nobody gives a flyingfuck.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 14:39 | 1654787 LetThemEatRand
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"If there really was a "free market", we would have slaves, child labour, etc..."

Now you've done it.  The Rander cultists are going to flame you for disagreeing with their simplistic ideology.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 15:07 | 1654844 DaBernank
DaBernank's picture

We do have slaves and child labour, they're just someplace in Asia, far from our moral superiority.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 15:42 | 1654902 Poetic injustice
Poetic injustice's picture

So true. They work day and night for dollar a day (now couple of dollars) to make all those nice and shiny things they can't afford themselves. Moral superiority is for people who don't ask questions.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:07 | 1655137 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Yes, and, 90% of the time, how much were they earning before the 'evil corporations' invested millions in their countries and gave them work? Rather less.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:41 | 1655195 LetThemEatRand
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I seem to remember reading that the same argument was made to justify slavery of Africans in America and elsewhere. Something along the lines that the savages were better off.  The more things change....

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:52 | 1655218 BigJim
BigJim's picture

So, increasing people's standard of living by offering them paid employemnt, and forceably taking them from their villages, transporting them thousands of miles in the holds of hellships and making them work on pain of death, are the same thing?

You, sir, are a moron.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:58 | 1655230 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

No, the only moron here is the one who thinks the two options are slavery or quasi-slavery to multi-national corporations who eliminate small business and self-employment.  It is a false choice.    What defined American success was its middle class, which arose due to inconvenient (to people like you) rules like labor and environmental laws and collective bargaining rights enforced by elected officials who ran on a platform of protecting the little guy.   Perhaps you believe that we should worship at the altar of multi-national corporations and thank them for the scraps they leave us.  Unless you are one of the oligarchs benefiting from the system, you are the moron. 

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 19:11 | 1655259 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Nice try. But my post was in answer to @Poetic Injustice:

    So true. They work day and night for dollar a day (now couple of dollars) to make all those nice and shiny things they can't afford themselves. Moral superiority is for people who don't ask questions.

so suddenly switching the context to the US to try to give your arguments weight fails.

But I'll take up the 'challenge'.

As for

    to multi-national corporations who eliminate small business and self-employment.

how do they 'eliminate small business and self-employment'? By bribing our 'elected officials' to unleash waves of regulatory legislation that small businesses simply cannot afford to comply with.

Ask 'the little guy' attempting to run a business whom he is more afraid of - the government or honest competition.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 19:18 | 1655280 LetThemEatRand
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Your reasoning is circular.  If the government were not there to bribe, they would just have one less obstacle to overcome.   Robber barons would take by force what they now take by bribe.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 19:25 | 1655297 BigJim
BigJim's picture

No, your reasoning is circular.

People calling for smaller government want smaller government precisely because the government would then not have the power to grant privileges to the bribers... privileges that are backed by the might of the State.

But I imagine you will now twist this into another argument against having no government, which is of course the situation that i) I am not arguing in favor of, and ii) would allow the so-called 'robber barons' to operate.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 19:40 | 1655333 LetThemEatRand
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You keep missing the central point.  If the power you detest is not based in the state, it will migrate elsewhere.  Guess where?   At least the government you hate is democratically elected and there are checks and balances designed to minimize and combat corruption.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 14:10 | 1656724 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Power 'migrates', does it? I suppose that's why there's as much coercion running around in modern Germany as there was during the Nazi era.... because the amount of coercion stays the same, regardless of the prevalent power structures.

How do you come up with this stuff?

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 19:20 | 1657804 LetThemEatRand
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Your latest comment doesn't even make sense.  Nazi Germany is actually a perfect example of what happens when you let the strongest rule without constraint, and when you merge corporate interests completely with the power structure that we call government.   What all Rand followers fail to recognize is that something will replace your hated government.  And that something in your ideal world will be unelected, and run by sociopaths who place profit and/or personal power above all else.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 12:19 | 1656313 Seer
Seer's picture

Standard of living by whose measure?

Yeah, folks lead sustainably for centuries and then their standard of living is increased.  Care to ask how This will turn out?  Oh, we already know:

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 14:15 | 1656746 BigJim
BigJim's picture

As opposed to scores of millions starving to death in 'The Great Leap Forward'? ( ) Want to bet which era most Chinese would rather live in?

Anyway, I would hardly  describe China as a model of a free-market capitalist system with minimum government and rule of law.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 19:29 | 1657843 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Again with your false choice.  The choice should not be multi-national corporate hell, or brutal dictatorship, and suggesting otherwise only reveals your Ayn Rand simplistic view of the world.   It's like saying that the house slaves were lucky and were much better off than the field slaves.   The observation may be true on a certain level, but most would agree that being a house slave still blows.  Of course Ayn Rand and her followers always assume (incorrectly) that they would be the slave owner in this scenario, so they don't bother to think beyond the narrow rubric they created.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 19:05 | 1655249 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Your argument dies with Haiti. Ever since the multinationals came in, they disbanded most local production of stuffs that now are imported and people end up living in cardboard towns: inside the boxes of the stuff they make for BIG .biz, because they don't earn enough for a trip home.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 14:28 | 1656790 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Haiti is a pretty good example of what happens when a government imposes mafia-style extortion from a nation's citizens

in this instance, for a change, it's not the citizen's own government, but the end effect remains the same. And the US government has meddled tirelessly in their affairs, too. Are you aware, for example, that "in 1914, President Woodrow Wilson took control of the Haitian National Bank by sending in marines, who removed $500,000 of its reserves "for safe-keeping" in New York"? (

Haiti is further hampered (in terms of making economic progress) by the fact it is essentially culturally African. It's basically Nigeria, without the Oil.

Finally, Hiati is an excellent example of how ruinous long-term foreign aid can be - it entrenches existing, failing, corrupt political structures.

Blaming the Haitians' miserable existence on 'the evil corporations' is laughably simplistic.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 19:35 | 1657863 LetThemEatRand
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Hmm. The Mafia.  It exists outside of government, it is run by businessmen who make and enforce their own rules outside of any elected system, it is obsessed with profit and power, and the most "productive" mafia members are rewarded richly while the least productive are shot.  A perfect example of what would happen in Randworld if her vision were ever realized. 

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 16:29 | 1654999 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Exactly right. The corporations go where there are no rules against such things, and the free market tolerates it quite well. Proves that Rand was indeed nothing more than a self-absorbed simpleton like her followers.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 20:56 | 1655458 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

No dumshit, we disagree with you and that idiot above you because you have no solutions but handwringing.     Thousands of years of human history reveals that any other way other than an individual having complete control over their own destiny is slavery. No solution is ever going to be perfect - especially when retarded humans like you roam the earth

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 21:08 | 1655478 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Well reasoned response, asshat.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:17 | 1655157 BigJim
BigJim's picture

   If there really was a "free market", we would have slaves, child labour, etc...

Er, no, because the slaves would not be free, would they? And slavery is a product of government, because without the force of the state to back up the slave owner's legal 'rights', what's to stop the slaves leaving?

Child labor already occurs, and does so in countries where if the kids don't work, they and their families starve. You might think this is preferable to sewing Nike trainers, but neither they nor their parents do. And no, they 'shouldn't' all be in school, learning important lessons like FDR Was A Great American President, because they have no schools, nor the capital to build them, nor sufficient productivity to be able to afford to have their 10+ siblings forego productive labor for 6+ years while they learn reading, riting, and rithmatic.

I suggest you pick up and actually read a few economics textbooks, so you don't embarrass yourself further.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 18:51 | 1655215 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Of course, there would be no private armed thugs to enforce the slave owners' rights.  Everyone would get along and gold would flow in the streets if there were no government around to get in the way.   Are those economic textbooks you're referring to the same ones cited by Krugman in support of endless fiat printing?   Give me a break.  Your philosophy is laughable and is nothing more than a transparent justification for purely selfish and objectively evil behavior.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 19:13 | 1655245 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Really? And throughout history, which model has been more prevalent? Governments enabling slavery, or slavery occuring in the context of a free market system? By definition, a free-market system that doesn't respect people's freedom isn't a free-market system.

The rest of your straw men are so fantastically straw-y I can only assume you're drunk.

PS - For the record, I have never argued for no government. I can't see how a free market system can efficiently exist without some over-arching body to enforce rule of law, and prevent exactly the kind of private armed thugs you mention... which exist now, I might add, in far greater numbers, roaming about doing our masters' bidding throughout the Middle East and AfPak.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 19:14 | 1655265 LetThemEatRand
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You truly have a simplistic view of history and mankind in general.  Mankind has always formed groups.  There are tribes, kingdoms, fiefdoms, gangs, nations, states, etc.   Historically, the strongest and most ruthless rose to power and controlled the others. It was a true free market of might=right.  Representative democracy changed all of that, and gave the weak and less powerful a voice.  People like you -- who ironically would probably have no means of defending yourself or making ends meat if society turned into the system you think you want -- seem to want to back to the good 'ole days, or perhaps you just have a fantasy in your mind where everyone will respect the "free market" and all will be well. Very nice, but totally unrealistic view of the world. 

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 19:20 | 1655286 BigJim
BigJim's picture

Ah, so now we're re-defining 'free-market' to mean no property rights, or rule of law, but merely might=right?

I'm sure our fellow ZHer's are getting a pretty good feel for your intellectual honesty by now.

Good night.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 19:37 | 1655328 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Pretty soon, you're going to have yourself talked into the status quo because you just made the argument against government "getting out of the way."   Of course I haven't met a Rander yet who actually can visualize or explain the system they advocate, other than to want to simultaneously dismantle all rules that apply to them, while continuing the rules that apply to everyone else. Like I said earlier.  The entire philosophy is nothing more than a transparent justification for selfish behavior and attitudes.  

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 09:37 | 1655963 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

You seem to think "Randers" is some form economic theoretical group. You obviously have zero economic training and it shows. 

Big Jim, is espousing common economic theory regarding free markets and private property. As these systems have never existed, as defined, it is impossible to determine what the results would be. However, this does not stop someone from theorizing and drawing conclusions.

You, on the other hand, have a love affair with the status quo. So, within the constraints of our "representative democracy", perhaps you can explain our "might makes right" policy with the rest of the world. The regulations that never work as claimed, but are very effective at transferring wealth to the Elite class, the largest prison population of any country on Earth, the continued erosion of Constitutional protections, the debt accumulation of 50 to 500 thousand dollars per person (estimates vary), the controlled media, the controlled education system or any one of a thousand sources of tyranny in the USA.

You might want to read a little. Here at ZH, most of us have a good understanding of history, economics and political science. Big Jim is particularly well versed. You sir, are a fountain of ignorance.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 19:24 | 1657784 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

Your comment is so far off-base it is difficult to know where to start.  So I will make it short.   The status quo is bullshit and I am not defending it.  Our system is corrupt and needs major changes.   But Ayn Rand followers have an even worse model in mind.   It is amazing to me that people who complain about the corruption of our system by the monied elite, seek to hand over the keys to them as the solution.   The idea that some mystical free market would overcome the greed, selfishness and sociopathy of those who run the facsist state that is corrupted by their money and power, is laughable and beyond naive.   Big Jim, if he is indeed a follower of Ayn Rand, has a good understanding of nothing but his own selfish interest which ironically would be ill served if he ever got his way.   But you get the gold star for smugness, and for failing to offer a single idea of your own at the same time.

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 23:18 | 1658411 Sean7k
Sean7k's picture

You obviously have no idea what Ayn Rand believed. You might want to read Atlas Shrugged or even read about her background. Rand was influenced by the Austrian school of economics. It champions free markets and capitalism. 

If you take the time to study the basic theory involved ( you will find that greed, selfishness and sociopathy have nothing to do with free market capitalism nor does fascism. Actually, those are the result of statism, especially socialism and the effects of central planned economies in an economy dominated by the actions of central banks. 

Obviously, you have decided to accept what the modern educational system has inculcated into your programming. Happens to all of us. However, you can choose to educate yourself. It is impossible to show you your lack of understanding of the basic terms you have tossed around until you decide to discover this for yourself. Good Luck!

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 19:06 | 1655254 AchtungAffen
AchtungAffen's picture

Slaves would not be free, but the market would be completely free: no rules at all. When there are no rules, if you have the dough you do whatever you want. You buy a slave and make children work at coal mines too.

Sat, 09/10/2011 - 20:09 | 1655374 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

The Randaid drinkers always assume that they and their children will be the ones running the coal mine, and that the idiot children working the mines and their worthless eater parents will deserve what they get.   That pretty much defines the entire philosophy.    If you ever put a Rand follower in the mine, they will scream bloody murder and after explaining how important they are, they will demand fair treatment and government safeguards.  Most Rand followers have used the following sentence quite often:  "But I've been talking too much about me.  What do you think about me?"

Sun, 09/11/2011 - 04:59 | 1655832 stacking12321
stacking12321's picture

no, we would not have slaves, please educate yourself as to the meaning of free market.

free market means willing participation in transactions, not subjugation or forced servitude.

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