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Shocker: JPM Sees Gold At $2,500 By Year End
We though we had seen it all... Then JPM's Colin Fenton came out with a prediction of gold hitting $2500 by year end. That's right: JP Morgan... $2500...."Gold and sugar have potential to run a lot higher. It has been clear for weeks that the prompt CMX gold price has been building in a rising probability of a reflaring of financial crisis, gaining by 9.7% since June 30 as the MSCI World Equity index dropped by 10.1%. The correlation in daily price changes between these two assets has dropped to –0.09 from +0.29 over the prior year. Gold’s correlation against TIPS has doubled to 0.35 from 0.18. Against Italian and Spanish 5-year sovereign CDS prices, the gold correlation has moved to 0.27 and 0.32, from 0.07 and 0.04, respectively. Before the downgrade, our view was that cash gold could average $1800 per oz by year end. This view will likely now prove to be too conservative: spot gold could drive to $2500 per oz or higher, albeit on very high volatility." Funny, when discussing yesterday's Goldman upgrade of gold we said: "Next up: everyone else." Little did we know... Also, it is unclear if Blythe precleared this client note. But at this point it probably does not matter.
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GOLD, bitchez
GOLD To The Moon ...
Notice how they didnt mention silver. Hi Blythe!
Off topic, but there is some major call volume on SPY and SDS today.
Blythe is going home in a bodeee bag!
Blythe is fantastic. I honestly don't understand all this hostility aimed at her.
yeah, LEAVE HER ALOOONNNEEE!!!! :-)
JPM down 6.36% so far today. Can we see a -10% trifecta be EOD?
So, now we believe JPM guidance? I'm confused.
Danger zone in JPM land is when silver spot is more than a share of their worthless criminal ass. The whole cornered rat thingy.
All press releases from the likes of JPM, GS, ... are marketing material only, and can't be trusted over a magic 8-ball.
Yeah, and they don't mention copper either.
or iron even. for shame. ;)
silence on tungsten as well
Yes, its in the report:
In the near-term, we would want to own a basket of Brent crude oil, gasoil, gold, raw sugar, copper, corn, and wheat, while hedging this risk by underweighting or shorting a basket of WTI crude oil, RBOB gasoline, aluminum, zinc, and North American natural gas. Despite the novelty of a US downgrade, a debt-focused scare is normal for this stage of the business cycle.
We find reassuring evidence of solid commodity fundamentals in the shape of the forward curves for copper
and fuel oil on the Shanghai Futures Exchange (Exhibits 7 and 8).
ZP,
exactly what everything i'm learning says...but janus asks, why not heavy up on sugar, gold, copper and wheat (and of course brent...the lybian protests are swinging TO ghadafi)? why not narrow it still? i always thought the parlay was a losing bet...over time.
Gold now at price parity with Pt...paging doChen lol
Last time this happened was the depths of 08, IIRC.
completely meaningless. you might as well listen to static on the radio. Also, you're completely wrong about Silver; then major demand and buying is coming in from the east on the Silver is money motive; lecturing the markets doesn't work. If the market says Silver is money, then it's money.
... and if the market says its not?
Gold has a specific function as an undilutable store of value, and it is this function that gives it value.
Silver tags along for the ride because some investors think that because silver also performed this function at various times and places in the past that it will continue to do so.
Who owns gold? The big players. Central Banks and the very wealthy (already rich).
Who owns silver? The industrial users, and little guys (speculators, hoping to get rich quick).
The store of value function does not require scarcity of supply, or competition with industrial users. These are actually negative factors in this regard.
The store of value function requires stability of stock, and the store of value function requires only one instrument.
Ultimately, buying silver is betting against gold, because the store of value function requires only one instrument.
Do so at your own peril.
Silver is, and will trade as, the critical industrial metal that it is.
Silver is poor man's gold. Think about it before following the herd.
Gold will value the dollar at a lot less than $1/2500th oz before it is finished with The Return to Honest Money.
Not exactly.
Silver has functioned, throughout history, as the principle metal exchanged in commerce. You can't buy a loaf of bread with a fucking kruggerand.
In China and India, people already know this, and own both gold and silver, used in a variety of ways. Silver demand on an investment basis is outstripping gold on a dollar per dollar basis.
And I wouldn't put too much faith in "the big boys," remember, they sold their gold (central banks) and are now buying it back at 5 times the price. Comparing a central banker to a typical ZH reader and concluding that the banker is the "smart money" is a bit much.
As far as your "who owns silver?" claim you're way off base. There are plenty of gold speculators, and plenty of rich people who are long silver.
You are correct that silver is currently viewed (by some) as an industrial metal, however, that sentiment is rapidly shifting. It's easy to see this (or at least that's what I'm infering) by the behavior of the silver price compared to equities (it's less and less a risk asset and/or commodity, especially if you subtract the influences of the "11th hour" engineered takedowns in the COMEX).
That a store of value only requires one instrument, is a ridiculous idea. There are many stores of value.
The fact is that silver has a longer history as money than gold does, and it is has been used far more w.r.t. commerce than gold.
Now, you may be nervous that it's volatile. And you may watch gold when it takes off and sluggishly pulls silver behind (during risk-off periods). That's fine, but no need to think you're superior.
As far as following the herd, JPM uses the herd to its advantage and is now calling for $2500 gold at the end of the year, which is a high number, even amongst the gold experts (the highest I've seen is $2,000 by years end).
So maybe you're just in a different herd.
You can't buy a loaf of bread with a fucking kruggerand.
No, but you can buy a loaf of bread with a piece of paper that represents ownership of a fraction of a kruggerand. And you must be into some truly boutique breads if you're suggesting we should go buy a loaf with an oz of silver.
Otherwise I'm inclined to agree with you... gold may be favoured as money in the West, but silver is very popular in the East. And last time I looked, they're the ascendant powers.
F2Z,
Bravo!
Your friend,
Janus
do you people even bother to CHECK your facts before talking shit?
Silver investment demand was around 200Moz in 2010. Gold's investment demand Q1 2011 was approx 310 tons or around 9Moz. I'll leave the GSR to you and I assume you can multiply by 4.
Look, take it from a guy a couple sigmas to the right of you, OR just go the fuck out on teh interwebz and goggle something like "silver industrial demand" before spouting off, ok?
Well OVER HALF of silver consumption is industrial. I already posted this data in rebuttal to tmosely-claven in a previous argument on this very topic. You would do well to review it before embarrassing yourself further
I'm afraid you aren't a "couple of sigmas" to the right of ANYONE around here, retard. You can't even tell the difference between rising and falling. It's like you're a fucking goon with a Hitler Complex.
Grab your GOLD, Bitchez ...
U.S. could run off with other nations' gold, Rickards tells CNBC
Submitted by cpowell on 04:52AM ET Monday, August 8, 2011.
Geopolitical analyst James G. Rickards, who spoke at GATA's Gold Rush 2011 conference in London on Saturday, was back in the United States this morning for an interview about gold on CNBC, where he said the United States is a gold superpower and, as currencies collapse, well might confiscate the gold it vaults for other nations.
The interview is five minutes long and you can watch it at the CNBC archive here:
http://video.cnbc.com/gallery/?video=3000037455
By golly, that could start a war!
That's not news from him he's been saying that for months and James Turk also released an article last month trying to prompt the Germans to find out where their gold is as it's not all in the Bundesbank.
Yeah, but we all KNOW WHERE that old kraut gold came from via Poland.
What I find valuable about tracking discussion of gold in the mainstream press is that you can gauge recognition. Some of those hosts were nearly screaming "it has no intrinsic value" (where they used to just laugh) and the other half were sort of throwing their hands up and *almost* admitting they don't understand the situation at all.
We edge closer to the "come to Jesus" moment on gold by the day.
THEY have no intrinsic value.
Please let one bugz say that in response just once.
Let the MSM bleat that stackers are idiots. Housing wasn't in a bubble either; they all said so.
I guess what Im getting at is that as scary as JPM publicly going long is to gold holders, I just don't see any evidence that you could walk into a mainstream media debate or a bar and say, "gold has good money properties" and be understood by anyone.
Its not that they disagree. They just don't "get it". Paper money being valuable makes perfect sense to them and gold is just ridiculous.
More evidence that gold is going up to "stupid" values before it settles anywhere near "fair" values
Yes you are right. But then do people know anything about truth anymore when the corporate controlled mass media is feeding them their misinformation?
You are ahead of a meme and it has only just begun even though PMs have been on a great 10-11 year run already.
Think of all the people that sold their gold at $900 thinking they were getting an awesome deal! Now none of them have that "junk to "scrap" and the people that had some foresight are thinking "I told you so."
While few people I know have listened about buying, at least I convinced them NOT TO SELL!
Great video. What do you think of it's merit?
I call BS on the gold confiscation theory.
The slow acquisition of gold by central banks and supression of prices requires worldwide cooperation between central banks and governments. They know exactly where this is going and exactly how to get there, so they are stacking gold.
There is no way in Hell they could get that cooperation if anyone thought the USA would steal their gold. By the time this is over, the USA won't need to steal their gold, because all the central banks in the world will have all the significant amounts of gold.
Rather than steal other nation's gold, why not just use your worthless paper and buy more during the 4 year kick the can session? I personally think the big double cross occuring is that central banks are buying more than their agreed allotment, and that is why we have price spurts like we do. There will be no confiscation of any large gold holdings of large countries. Now small countries like Iraq or Lybia, yes that is possible. The rest is baloney.
This conspiracy didn't start yesterday. There is a reason why gold was held in NY long after the danger of Soviet occupation had past. Conspiracy and lies are the basic nature of central banking.
Agreed. As someone on AH pointed out earlier, IRAs/401Ks are the new gold ready for confiscation. So much easier done electronically. Gold is damned heavy.
confiscation leads to political turnover..this is why it won't occur.
Taxes and bait will accomplish it. Those smart enough to not take the bait will be fine. But many of the sheeple will GLADLY accept a "guaranteed return" from an insolvent government.
Those who don't may elect to take their 401 and cash it out, but the choice will be yours. It's like in the Matrix; the shit won't work by force.
If you don't hold it - you don't own it.
A very cogent interview by Rickards on KWN as to where the US gold is and who owns it. I highly recommend it (well worth the 15 minutes if you are into gold). Rickards is unparalleled in his geopolitical/financial analysis.
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2011/8/6_Jim_Ri...
He's definitely worth listening to, on practically any money-related subject.
In the CNBC video you can see him wincing at the utterances of the morons surrounding him. The guy at the end, going on about how an economy can't expand if the money supply doesn't - Christ on a bike, how do these idiots hold on to their jobs?
That warm fuzzy feeling that I've been getting from gold's ascent is turning into a light-headed euphoria.
I going to have to lay down now.
Don't forget land, so you can feed yourself -
http://sotcksdairyroadfarm.blogspot.com/
Wrongo Bongo Mr. Chongo!
Silver
My leetle chapuca....
Silver is in the it's Pacific "Midway" battle right now. Look at Kitco. As gold hits over 1700, JPM is pulling out all its stops to keep it below 40, because they know what will happen if it explodes. They explode with it and the game is over. FU JP Morgue.. Go to Hell if there is one, or if we can get together and create one for you all the better. FU....
I completely agree. It's amazing the number of whacks that silver takes during the LBMA trading, only to quickly rise back up during Asian trading hours. It's not clear how long they can keep it up, as gold is going to relentlessly pull silver up.
And what about silver? It can't stay stuck at average $39.
It won't, bitchez
Trade of the decade here we come, to the MOOOOOOON
Remember FOFOA's take on silver ? Its just a spec long option on gold prices. The central banks aren't buying any.
+ $1714
+ $2500
then:
+ $55,000
janus says that gold is just a spec option long on silver.
go long; stay strong
FOFOA's take on gold is probably beyond reproach. I think he needs to work his math some more on the silver issue.
So, FOFOA is your new daddy, ehh? you going to memorize everything they say and repeat it back to us. Why don't you do your homework? It's not like there was no information available. Let me remind you of two little words. Supply-and-Demand. I think I'll do it again. Supply-and-Demand. Central Banks aren't buying any? that's a good one. The buying power of Silver will increase substantially more than that of Gold. The Supply is very poor. The above ground stocks that provide the rubber and the price cushion for the markets are fucking evaporating in front of your eyes.
I am not going to get into a pissing contest with the silver bugs, at least you are in metal. Don't tell me about homework. I do have some silver and silver stocks.
Im sold on gold, not silver
I will get into a pissing match with idiots who don't know that their semiprecious metal's supply HAS NOT PEAKED yet (whereas Gold has), and that well over 50% of the demand is INDUSTRIAL.
If industry falls of the cliff into this madmax situation they hope for, there will be so much slack supply that silver will fall to single digits absent hyperinflation.
Paper silver sure can. And that is exactly what holders/accumulators of physical silver SHOULD want. A drastic rise in prices brought on by an end to silver price manipulation via a COMEX implosion/bullion bank default (on physical exchanges) will lead to an industrial panic, cumulating in a blow off top where owners of silver can trade for gold to ride out the rest of the financial crisis--in style, I might add.
totally nonsensical.
What do you see wrong with this scenario?
I agree that tmosley's scenario is perfectly plausible.
If silver has a big run, I too will turn what I have left into gold.
I disagree with the notion of this price manipulation on COMEX. Also, Silver is NOT a truly precious metal; its main purpose is industrial. Strip off the demand from industry and you have a sustainable price far lower than here.
Platinum and Palladium are FAR rarer than gold; a savvy metalhead would steer you to them, not to silver, which is readily abundant and whose production has not yet peaked.
Silverbugz are pure speculators, nothing less, nothing more.
For sure. What the fuck do we need industry or tech for anyway. That shit is so passe'.
we are facing a Depression and you are unconcerned about demand metrics for industrial metals?
When WTI has shed 20%?
Nevermind that your response is a ridiculous nonsequitur as a consequence of presenting a false dilemma.
When WTI has shed 20%?
WTI has shed 20%. Silver hasn't. That in itself should suggest to you that your thesis - 'silver is primarily an industrial metal' - might no longer be true.
so that move down from 50 never happened? I dreamt it?
STFU
And here Trav further shows how stupid he is by failing to understand what a short squeeze is, and failing to note that the move down from $50 was not accompanied by a fall in the price of oil. So much for that silver==oil BS. But he'll keep spouting the same shit, because he thinks IQ makes you right, and he foolishly thinks that he has a high one. Of course, his math skills are so low he probably can't tell the difference.
FOFOA says that he does not buy the COMEX conspiracies. He has nu urge to "break the CRIMEX", etc.
Pt and Pd are OK. Diversification. Disclosure: happy holder of both.
It's clear there is a very large short on silver owned by the Morgue. Now, whether that is offset somewhere else is unknown to me.
It's clear that as both a monetary and industrial metal there is a very large demand for the metal. An implosion in the real economy will likely take down some or many industrial users as well, so I think you have a point there. But would this slack not be picked up by people avoiding the ongoing currency collapse, leading to the blow-off top tmosely describes?
Plat & Pall are truly PMs, but physical holding seems fruitless for trade considering the versatility and relative cheapness of silver.
People holding dollars are speculators, too. In fact, everyone is a speculator. Whether you're speculating that this fantasy world will continue, or whether you're speculating that the price of gold/silver will be $100,000/$6,000 or $300/$2, or whether you're speculating that the price of tampax will be $1/box next month.
Regarding the manipulation, I don't know if it's pure manipulation, but the behaviour of the market certainly suggests it, just as it does with Brent/WTI. The takedown patterns are easily identifiable, most likely telegraphable to other traders, and it's pretty easy to participate in. Markets should never be like that.
Well, in a hyperinflation event, EVERYthing will go up. Not just Silver. There's nothing special about Silver in a hyperinflation. Buy frickin whatever you want in such a case.
However, in a deflationary depression where sovereign default looms, there is something very special about gold vis a vis silver or other semiprecious metals.
I have to ask you...WHY silver? Make me the case for it in lieu of gold. I can't think of a single advantage it has OTHER than the pumpers say it's going to the moon and CRIMEX will implode and JPM and all the rest of this conspiracy shit, which they CANNOT prove beyond a preponderance.
See, I don't like to traffic in dreams if I am stacking real things; I like things I have evidence for.
The stated goal of silverbugz is to speculate and catch a mania. That's not my idea of sound "investment" nor "wealth preservation."
Silver is "cheap"; so what? I submit that among the semiprecious metals, Pd's price figure is most disconnected from its supply metrics, crustal abundance, and industrial demand. It is indistinguishable in many respects from Platinum both in what it is used for, how much of it is out there, how much of it is produced, and the ridiculous scarcity of significant producing mines.
Those who might purchase silver due to an expectation of price appreciation due to increase in industrial demand from novel usages are investors. However, they got in long ago and got out at 50. Those looking to "get rich" due to tulip mania are speculators. As a consequence, this means that your statement about everyone's being a speculator is demonstrably false.
Why Sivler? :)
I don't mind Gold at +6000$ but a funny fact lies with it. NOT EVERYBODY WANTS TO PAY 6K FOR A COIN OR EVEN CAN!
So, they'll switch to the second best and start buying those. 1 supply is short, hedged 100 to 1 and pretty cheap.
But once you've got something EVERYBODY wants... what do you think will happen to the price?
Every year 1/10 of a ounce is produced worldwide. So every ounce you buy is enough for 10 people.
I've got enough for several thousands of people ;)
And if most people will now start to go in BOOM!!!
Why didn't they raise Gold margins do you think? PLENTY OF IT TO GO AROUND!!!
Oké, you're goldbug, I'm a silverbug. WHY FIGHT?! :)
WE'LL BOTH MAKE A KILLING!
Actually I'll be making a masacre :)
BUT WE BOTH WIN!
Trav777,
okay, i thought through all of what you're saying -- and i agree with most all of it; but...
i see a glaring ommission with your calculus, and it's one i see quite a bit. you're colating fundamentals without factoring the attendant fear; which is to say, you're leaning on what has come before and facing into it...you've gotta put all that stuff to the rear, build it up nice and high and solid, and then stand up on top of it, use it to gain perspective into the future -- don't wallow in your comfortable conception of the dead and dying, only to be buried in amongst it (let the dead bury their own dead...as JC would tell ya).
my thinking is along the lines of an inflection point (supply and demand consp will be nice but unnecessary), the point at which gold becomes so expensive and its fungibility is skewing into the preposterous; at that point, when it's magnified and pressured by the fear and greed of human depravity and frailty, we will start to see the institutional interest (long, civilization building interest) in S America and Asia. and when that happens, when mass weights are considered for the purpose of coinage...there's yer supernova.
and under that thinking, the conspiracies tend to get in the way...if there's not enough silver to coin (practically speaking), then the whole thing is a conspiracy and we'll get the supernova. if there's no conspiracy and supply is a slimy-stinky red herring, then we go back to coinage and the alternate supernova.
in the end, when it comes to times like these, your charts and moving averages and totemic theory are all just techie porno; this is time for taking swords to gordian knots....this is janus-time, bitchez!
Oh, Trav's been "thinking" (not very hard) about silver, huh? Can't think of a single advantage over gold. You must not have much of a brain there, fool.
Without the COMEX, silver is still great, simply because of supply (stock+production) is declining rapidly at a time that demand is increasing. But you hate any fact that disproves your point. Because you are weak. Which is why Trav is FOREVER ALONE :(
You are, more than anyone else, the single greatest fountain of disinformation and bullshit in the precious metal community.
With the COMEX supposedly set for imminent implosion (something you've been predicting every month for 3 years), can you tell me why a billion dollar hedge fund like Sprott hasn't busted it?
Hint: the answer is the EXACT OPPOSITE of a lie which you've repeatedly been telling everyone for the past year, here.
You confusing yourself with others again?
If I am the greatest fountain of disinformation, then great. Ignore my posts. And pay attention to people like Turd Fergison, Silvergoldsilver, Gentleman Jim, and Peter Schiff. They are all saying the same things that I have been saying, and ALL have much greater audiences than lil' old me, and the paid troll, Libertarians for Progress has explicitly given their veiws his seal of approval by claiming that I am the number one source of disinformation.
Thanks for helping to clear that up for the community, Petite Hitler-boy.
Why didn't you answer my question?
BECAUSE YOU'RE FULL OF SHIT!
Sweet Johny Bravo is here!
Why am I full of shit if I can't speak for Eric Sprott?
Oh that's right, you just make up bullshit metrics in order to claim that the arguments of others are invalid, because you are a fairly sly paid troll. Too bad that shit doesn't work on highly intelligent people, isn't it?
no, I can't think of an advantage.
Instead of shittalking like you usually do, POST ONE.
Try it sometime, idiot; instead of talking crap and waving your fucking hands, actually make a cogent argument.
Demand IS increasing? In a depression? WTF alternate universe of idiots do you inhabit? Silver demand WILL increase assuming economic growth continues, but if we crash like you retards say we are gonna - and that would be one HELL of a crash to make silver back into money sufficient to make a retard like you into a newly-minted slumlord - then the industrial demand for all of this silver goes POOF, bitch.
And that's significantly more than half of existing demand. Fuckin hell, why am I repeating myself? I already TOLD YOU THIS SHIT and gave you the effing LINK last time. Go fucking read it for once.
And here Trav further shows his stupidity by failing to see the argument that I presented.
Here, let me spell it out for you AGAIN:
"Without the COMEX, silver is still great, simply because of supply (stock+production) is declining rapidly at a time that demand is increasing. But you hate any fact that disproves your point. Because you are weak. Which is why Trav is FOREVER ALONE :("
If you want the numbers, they are available here: http://www.silverinstitute.org/supply_demand.php#demand Not that you care for silly things like facts that don't confirm your bias, but the numbers show that industrial demand grew at a rate of ~84Mtoz from 2009-2010, while mine production only increased about 19Mtoz. Overall net supply coming to the market from existing stocks rose from 60.9Mtoz in 2009, to 142.9Mtoz in 2010.
Pretty much blows your stupid shit out of the water. Now shut up and never speak on this subject again, you gibbering buffoon.
However, in a deflationary depression where sovereign default looms, there is something very special about gold vis a vis silver or other semiprecious metals....
This is absolutely correct, and this is also where the doomer goons show their idiocy. One visit to SilverGoldSilver's blog or Turd F's blog and you'll witness the dumbest, most gullible pm investors on Earth spew their nonsense about silver being money. It's the result of a strong and deliberate flow of PM disinformation over the past year.
The irrefutable proof that silver is not money resides within the SIFO rates, and specifically how they moved during the darkest days of 2008/9 when compared to gold lease rates. When the pianos were raining from the sky, and the entire system was going bust, lease rates on gold and silver moved in opposite directions. Why? Gold was being hoarded and used as banking collateral, whereas silver was treated like any other metal.
So, if you're buying silver on the premise that the world's fiat currencies are going bust, you're buying for the wrong reason. Only gold is money and is treated as such. That doesn't mean, though, as currencies make their death rattles and hyperinflate, silver won't run higher, but so will virtually every dollar denominated asset. Just look at the equity markets in the past 2 years.
But when the shit truly hits the fan and major currencies implode, expect silver and gold move in diametrically opposite directions, as they did when the financial system experienced extreme stress in 2008/9.
If silver isn't money, then why am I so rich, having owned it for some time?
lol, the broadcast signal went out to the trolls a while back where they all, in unison switched from being 100% anti-PM, to being pro-gold, anti-silver. This was several months ago, and I am not the only one that noticed it.
And to anyone in doubt, "Libertarians for Progress" is definitely a paid troll, with 100% probability. I can say this because he "caught" an edit of mine, that I made literally 5 seconds after submitting the post, and jumped on my ass about it. Funny thing is, his gleeful derision of me for having written grants for scientific research wasn't posted until AN HOUR LATER. This clearly means he was using some sort of protools to catch edits, and commented when he sat back down at his terminal.
And this is the same guy who knew intimate details about my arguments with his other incarnations that took place in single threads MONTHS before he registered this user name, and then called me "paranoid" when I pointed it out.
Trust these smily-faced petite Hitler's at your own risk. They are snakes, and will tell any lie to get you to do what they want, which is to sell silver, so they can buy it themselves, or so their masters can make deliveries with silver bought off of the market.
Again, why didn't you address the substance of my post?
BECAUSE YOU'RE FULL OF SHIT!
You might be able to convince the lowest hanging fruit in the PM community, but I and others will continue to call out your bullshit.
Why don't you address the substance of mine? The world doesn't revolve around you, boy. Did it ever strike you that lease rates are just as subject to manipulation as futures prices, especially in a super teeny-tiny market like silver?
Of course it did, but you are paid not to address such things, and to cast confusion and seed doubt among those places where current owners and potential buyers of silver gather.
How did you see my five second edit an hour after it happened? Pro-tool using snake.
As a matter of fact, Claven, you are the worst offender with accusations of "he's a PSYOP" everytime you get your ass handed to you in an argument, which is just about 100% of the time.
Try rebutting his argument on its MERITS, instead of handwaving and bluster? RNR may be irritating but he's not a freakin psyop, ok? You're just stupid, so EVERYONE looks like a professional poster to you.
lol, I like how you admit that this guy is RNR.
And yes, someone that catches an edit made 5 seconds after a post, and gleefully jumps all over it and HOUR later is clearly using some sort of protools. The fact that he never answers such questions only further proves that fact. He doesn't even deny it any more.
I can see your case for gold. If it gets colladeralized by CBs like the FED, there's no question gold will outperform. But what then? What does that mean for other real assets? What if we have another move like what FDR did? They weren't confiscating silver. Of course, there was still actual silver in coinage then..
The universe disagrees with you Trav. Silver is by definition a precious metal. No amount of personal hatred for me or black people is going to change that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Precious_metal
But then, you just disregard any facts that you don't agree with.
Funny that you keep insulting the silverbugs while you yourself (claim to) own silver. Sell it, you hypocritical little shit. You don't deserve it.
Also funny that you think that the price of WTI is manipulated down, but "no way" is the price of silver manipulated down.
An investor who isn't an idiot would look at the amount of stock in addition to the production of a given material and compare them to the amount used. In platinum and palladium, production and usage balance, and have for a long, LONG time. In silver, however, we have a chronic shortfall in production that has been made up with the sale of official stockpiles, which are now almost empty. Of course, all are precious metals, and all will do well in the future, as they are all real money, while some have the ADDITIONAL feature of being industrial metals.
But then, you are a worthless little sub-human creature ruled 100% by his hatred, and as such can not be reasoned with. Hell, you still think that it's a good idea to sterilize 97% of the human population, claiming that such a thing would be somehow "kind", nevermind the demographic nightmare that would create, as the likelihood of two of the remaining sterile people will pair off is quite low, along with the fact that there 3% of the population can't support 97% in it's old age. I don't know why I bother. It's like trying to debate ethics with Hitler.
oh, he hates niggers does he? well, Trav777, i'm a nigger-lover...love you, too -- in an abstract/philosophicall sort of way.
now i get it...the whole misappraisal of everything on his part can be tied directly to this disease he has.
we're gonna get rid of the eggplants/
oh, yes, the jungle bunnys would tear them up/
no, boss, we're gonna get rid of the niggers for ya/
niggers...sir, do you realize you are talking to a nigger?
(yes, steve martin qualifies for the poetic quotes)
are you fuckin on something? Post sober, please, so it's at least vaguely coherent
oh, trav, i suspect you're one of those i run into to all too frequently: those just a lil smarter than they let on, but not nearly smart enough to do anything about it...the ole green eyed monster make you lash out a bit, no? (vague?)
and, specifically, what are you refering to viz. the vagueness? it seems i could use your help, trav.
lemme be a bit more explicit: i'm goin nice and easy on you right now, but i always keep a sharp blade in the boot; just in case i need to gut a thug on the fly.
yeah my long hair just can't cover up my redneck/
i've won every fight i've ever fought/
i don't need some turkey tellin me that i ain't county/
sayin i ain't worth a damn dog ticket that he bought,
Janus (with a lil help from my buddy David Allen Coe)
Platinum and palladium stocks have been drawn down, moron.
Russia sold its stockpiles into the market. WTF are you talking about?
Or more pertinently, can you get ANYTHING RIGHT? Ever? Give it a try: do research before talking.
You think it's unlikely that the fertile would pair off?!?! WTF...they'd all KNOW THEY PASSED THE TEST, you fucking IDIOT.
This is proof positive you wouldn't make the cut.
lol, sure, so existing couples would just abandon each other and their families and go on a fuck marathon, eh?
Hope your top 3% is gender adjusted, or you're going to get 80% homosexual couples, as the higher you go in IQ, the fewer women their are (the bell curve for women is tighter than for men).
Also, I love how you jump on my ass for not posting links, then you do a bunch of handwaving bullshit. Such a fucking hypocrite. No wonder your wife left you and won't let you see the kids. Well, that and the fact that you lunge at them with kitchen shears any time they say something dumb. Which given your shitty genes is probably pretty often.
To be a useful money, something can't be too rare. It has to fulfill a goldilocks position, which gold seems to do (on the rarer side), and silver seems to do (on the less rare side).
Price manipulation on the COMEX is well documented, especially in light of the ongoing (2 years?) official investigation.
Bizarre the gold bug to silver bug name calling. WTF?
Anyway, everyone should buy a bunch of (physical) silver just for the pleasure of seeing JPM explode.
Also, Silver is NOT a truly precious metal; its main purpose is industrial
Precious is as precious does. If enough people see silver as a precious metal, then it is one.
I might add that its history as a monetary metal is long and illustrious, which suggests it could just be returning to form.
Platinum and Palladium are FAR rarer than gold; a savvy metalhead would steer you to them
I thought you said metals whose primary value derives from being used in industry are not precious metals?
Silverbugz are pure speculators, nothing less, nothing more.
We're all fucking speculators, chum - if the NWO take over and introduce a one-world currency, we are all of us - gold-/silver-/platinum-/palladium bugs, well and truly fucked.
I don't fucking care what PEOPLE see or think. PEOPLE are idiots!
What matters is FACT, ok? Don't talk to me about fuckin PEOPLE and their stupid opinions.
Pt, Pd, and Ag are SEMIprecious. I CLEARLY defined what I meant by that. They are partially precious but significantly industrial. Gold, OTOH, has almost no industrial demand at all. It is truly a precious metal in that sense of the word. Like how a freakin VVS D/E/F diamond is precious. Its value does not derive from its Mohs hardness.
Pt and Pd are, like Ag, semiprecious but far rarer than Au or Ag. In addition, you really ought to read where the entirety of the supply of them comes from, how stockpiles were sold into the spot market, and how low the production figures are, and what the astounding utility of these metals are. Long Pd as a "true value" trade makes more sense than Silver.
But that's not what silverbugz are about, sense. They are about mania.
lol, Trav thinks he can redefine himself into being correct.
Sorry, dumbass. You can't just make up definitions. http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/precious+metal
exactly. If gold is at $2500 what will silver be then. Silver @ _____(fill in blank)
Silver will be $62.50/oz. The ratio of gold/silver is 40 to 1. So divide $2500/40= $ 62.50
and, of course, that ratio is fixed, right? It NEVER fluctuates?
Try dividing 2500/16, or do you always do what the banks order you to do? I assume you have heard of Sir Isaac Newton.
Are you one of those idiots who buy into the 16:1 silver/gold ratio, proffered by Eric Sprott? Do you realize that you need to use a 5000 year timeline to extract that ratio? You're probably one of those people who think a 5000 year timeline adds credibility to the ratio, right? More years, more credibility? The pricing dynamics of precious metals 3000 years before Christ is fucking irrelevant to our modern, multi-trillion $$ economies! Using a timeframe of 5000 years is nothing more than a clever way to dis-inform you.
Otherwise, just use a 13,000,000,000 year timeline when everything was priced 1:1.
Untill 1910 that was the silver gold ratio in Europe during the lation currency union which started with Napoleon.
By a like token, our modern multi-trillion $ economies are a blip on the timeline. Using that short of a timeframe is simple blindness.
45?
Look at oil- IT IS TELLING YOU which direction silver is going, ok? Silver is now PRIMARILY an industrial metal, not a wealth reserve.
Anyone expecting a silver explosion in the face of oil price crash like this and where rarer semiprecious (meaning significant industrial demand component) metals like Pt or Pd haven't budged, is a fool.
You have been bamboozled into looking at Ag as a precious metal when it is only semiprecious. Gold is standing up right now as the liquid wealth reserve. The other metals don't have the stones. I can't tell you that it makes SENSE, I can only comment on what IS.
Right.....which is why I have 28 55-gallon drums of oil buried in the back 40. There is a reason no one ever minted oil. The dopes are out today.
trav,
i take a long view too, but your thoughts on pt and pd require the faith and function of many a generation. the earth's fucking crust? now who's the loon.
teach your children well/
their father's hell/
will surely go by/
and feed them on your dreams/
the ones you picked...,
BOO! (scared you didn't i -- like a goddam jack in the box on poppers)
huh? Where the fuck do we mine this shit from if not the Earth's crust?
You did graduate highschool, yes?
which is exactly the fucking point. last time i made contact with it, my estimations of it were again confirmed: earth is crusty and rugged. it's difficult to set up to work your way through the stuff in mega-ton loads in order to find special little bits of it hidden within...and so there's a fucking lead time associated with such a logistical clusterfuck (ever been part of a BIG project?). i know i sound like a conspiracy moon-barker, but this isn't really the same as lizard-people...anyway, my point is, your position depends on a 'conspiracy' theory that can be readily explained by simple market forces.
i graduated from ThrashtheshitouttaU
Silver up 2%, oil down 8%. Yup, those two are joined at the hip they are.
lol
What you don't get is that the industrial demand for silver is inelastic, unlike the demand for oil. The fact that you don't understand that is why you keep losing these arguments, Trav.
I think trav is right there. Oil is and does foretell silver's moves. But also, silver tends to foretell oil as well sometimes. This drop in oil is extreme, so silver will probably get pulled down with it. Silver is becoming vulnerable to another takedown right now.
at WHAT POINT did I say there was a 1:1 correlation in the price moves of these two commodities? Yeah, that's right, I DIDN'T SAY IT.
You can't make a cogent argument so you INVENT something to argue against. We call this a logical fallacy, a strawman.
Industrial demand for silver is inelastic? ROTFL. Good lord, I'm all ears to hear where you came up with this stupid idea...
You said there was a correlation. There isn't. You don't know what the fuck you are talking about. The fact that they behaved in totally different ways today doesn't seem to stop you from posting utter drivel.
If you think there is a correlation, PROVE IT. Stop waving your arms around like a fucking retard. It's not hard.
And yes, industrial demand for silver is inelastic. When you need ten grams to make a thousand dollar television, or a half a gram to make a $500 smartphone, or 1/10th of a gram to make an antimicrobial bandage, you don't really give a flying fuck what the price is, because you have to have it to make your shit work. Industrial demand for silver is inelastic up through $200+ at least.
I love you for your idiotic hatred. It makes me feel good smacking you around like this. You're like an internet punching bag. Don't ever change Trav. Remain miserable and alone for the rest of your worthless short life. It entertains me.
What happens when nobody buys those TVs or smartphones?
Central banks are not stacking silver, therefore, it won't be in their personal interests to ramp the price of silver when all fiat is exchanged for the new paper.
That doesn't mean there won't be a huge ramp in prices when fiat dies because there isn't very many safe places to hide.
It also doesn't mean you won't get paid when the short conspiracy unwinds.
I have silver as an investment, and in the event I need to trade something for food. I have gold for the long haul.
But you can't eat.......never mind. :)
I look forward to using FRNs to wipe my.............
...tarnished silver?
You let your silver tarnish?
LOL
It's so much more fun to let others fill in the blanks. :)
Looks like they must have finally flipped all their positions... Kinda like how GS timed the Subprime CDS market perfectly a few years.. man those guys are super lucky.. not totally fixing the market or anything.
they are prepping the sheep for a gold backed currency
Slaughter will precede any gold backed currency
correction: gold backed SDR, bitchez!
bye bye dollar! c ya, don't wannabe ya!
Now because they know most cannot afford GOLD they are now saying this....CRIMINALS!
blythe already went home with a big glowing silver dildo in her potus ah anus
not happy, don't like The Morgue calling for high gold prices, spidey senses tingling...
tell us a joke.
ovaltine, ever had this stuff...?
Maybe they are just telegraphing that they have to cover their shorts.
Jesus Christ, people; it's just conversation. All this hive mind shit about authoritive anouncements moving major markets is bullshit. They can say whatever they want; the price charts contain actual information.
I just peed a little.
Accidentally posted old news
S&P downgraded Moodys.
Which begs the question.....how can one downgrade shit (or assholes)?
It's a scare tactic -too much volatility.
Not.
Banksters aren't going to sacrifice their overseas empire...they will accomodate russia and china's calls for gold-backed SDR.
Jim Sinclair Bitchez!
James Turk interviews Jim Sinclair.
$1764 is the new magic number -- where Au goes exponential.
http://www.goldmoney.com/video/sinclair-turk-interview.html
that was a great interview. many thanks for the link!!!
It can no longer be contained. Gold bulls got wings
its a good thing Citis stock price was triple reversed with double backflip stretch split. otherwise it would be looking ugly as a penny stock
Hey, I just an email from JPMC. They said they saw my comments on ZH and now want me trading commdities for them!
Yes, what about Silver? Have the margin hikes killed it?
"by SilverSurfer
on Mon, 08/08/2011 - 12:36#1537721
Yes, what about Silver? Have the margin hikes killed it?"
Wait until the silver commodities traders go for delivery of the metal and get paper instead!
Margins? We don' need no steenkin' margins! We got PHYSICAL, stupid
Predictions of highs in gold by the big boys usually spooks the gold price.
My guess is that all hell will break loose if the price goes anywhere near there.
Then agan with so few assets of any real and universally recognized value, there are very few choices when it comes to portability as well as the ability to buy in small units.
nah...hell won't break loose.
The NFL season getting lost would cause more riots than gold hitting 2k.
The average salary doesn't have enough left over to buy an ounce and even if you saved it, the missus would just bitch you out for wasting the savings on some fucking coin instead of that new flat screen that everybody else has.
My wife is finally getting the religion.
it's Transitory
Actually she's traditional!
Actually she's traditional!
As long as she's not a barbarous relic.
When you're right, well, you're right.
I took a relatively sympathetic girl to a coin shop once and her commentary revolved around how much that guy in front of us "wasted" - ok maybe she didn't say that but she was derisive in terms of how much he spent - on bags of junk silver. I think he plunked down maybe in the 'hood of $5k? And it was looked at by her as a purchase of something, an expenditure. No concept of that those bags might now fetch 4x as many FRNs or that you could buy the bags one day and literally bring them back the next day for the same FRNs (obv minus the spread), whereas the other things you would "spend" on effectively go to 0 when you walk out of the store with them.
Yes, yes, I know 0 is an exaggeration; I have picked up Hermes shirts on StyleForum for $45 instead of what, 600 they cost brand new. Got a brioni cashmere overcoat for $700, NWT, retail price prob north of 7 grand. So, yeah, there is SOME recovery value for the shit most people "spend" money on. This is the mental conceptualization of the average person about PMs.