The Silent Anschluss: Germany Formally Requests That Greece Hand Over Its Fiscal Independence
Update 2: the first local headlines are coming in now, from Spiegel: Griechenland soll Kontrolle über Haushalt abgeben (loosely Greece must give up domestic control), and Kathimerini: Germany proposes Greece relinquish some fiscal powers, sources say
Update: Formal Greek annexation order attached.
It was tried previously (several times) under "slightly different" circumstances, and failed. Yet when it comes to taking over a country without spilling even one drop of blood, and converting its citizens into debt slaves, Germany's Merkel may have just succeeded where so many of her predecessors failed. According to a Reuters exclusive, "Germany is pushing for Greece to relinquish control over its budget policy to European institutions as part of discussions over a second rescue package, a European source told Reuters on Friday." Reuters add: "There are internal discussions within the Euro group and proposals, one of which comes from Germany, on how to constructively treat country aid programs that are continuously off track, whether this can simply be ignored or whether we say that's enough," the source said.' So while the great distraction that is the Charles Dallara "negotiation" with Hedge Funds continues (as its outcome is irrelevant: a Greece default is assured at this point), the real development once again was behind the scenes where Germany was cleanly and clinically taking over Greece. Because while today it is the fiscal apparatus, tomorrow it is the legislative. As for the executive: who cares. At that point Goldman will merely appoint one of its retired partners as Greek president and Greece will become the first 21st century German, pardon, European colony. But at least it will have its precious euro. We can't wait until Greek citizens find out about this quiet coup.
More from Reuters:
The source added that under the proposals European institutions already operating in Greece should be given "certain decision-making powers" over fiscal policy.
"This could be carried out even more stringently through external expertise," the source said.
The German demands for greater control over Greek budget policy comes amid intense talks to finalize a second 130-billion euro rescue package for Greece, which has repeatedly failed to meet the fiscal targets set out for it by its international lenders.
It is likely to spark a strong reaction in Athens ahead of elections expected to take place in April.
"Strong reaction?" Is that the politically correct parlance for "civil war" these days? We must be out of the loop on that one...
The specific language that strips Greece of its sovereignty and which will be plastered over every front page in the Greek media tomorrow:
Budget consolidation has to be put under a strict steering and control system. Given the disappointing compliance so far, Greece has to accept shifting budgetary sovereignty to the European level for a certain period of time. A budget commissioner has to be appointed by the Eurogroup with the task of ensuring budgetary control. He must have the power a) to implement a centralized reporting and surveillance system covering all major blocks of expenditure in the Greek budget, b) to veto decisions not in line with the budgetary targets set by the Troika and c) will be tasked to ensure compliance with the above mentioned rule to prioritize debt service.
The new surveillance and institutional approach should be formulated in the MoU as follows: “In the case of non-compliance, confirmed by the ECB, IMF and EU COM, a new budget commissioner appointed by the Eurogroup would help implementing reforms. The commissioner will have broad surveillance competences over public expenditure and a veto right against budget decisions not in line with the set budgetary targets and the rule giving priority to debt service.” Greece has to ensure that the new surveillance mechanism is fully enshrined in national law, preferably through constitutional amendment.
And here is the full formal pre-annexation order:
In the meantime, Greeks are already practicing the switchover in the national dance:
Before...
And after.
(18 votes)
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All your budget are belong to Mein Führer.
Blitzkrieg!
Vee vill kill za women and rape za horses! Vait...za other way around...
Ruhr Valley part deux
Germany essentially has two choices:
1) Give blessing to the ECB to print enough euros to make good on current PIIGSFUK debts and future PIIGSFUK deficit spending (c'mon, does anyone believe PIIGSFUK [PIIGS+UK+France] are really going to employ austerity in real euro terms over anything longer than a year, if at all?), which will devalue the real purchasing power of Germans by a massive amount over a relatively short period of time (as the bazooka solution has to be a quickly deployed one, as in dole the rapidly deteriorating euros out to creditors/bagholders very quickly), or
2) Part ways with with the worst offenders of PIIGSFUK, in an attempt to preserve a smaller, more stable, more sustainable core EU, in which case there will be defaults of the kind that trigger cascading systemic shock events globally.
Option 1 gives Germans a chance to preserve their real purchasing power even if there will be adverse consequences of a different form (there will be adverse consequences regardless as to what path is chosen).
Option 2 crushes Germans and does nothing to fix the core defects that gave rise to the EU crisis, setting the stage for yet another EU crisis in a few short years from now (i.e. kick the can, while making the ultimate outcome far more severe and long-lasting).
Hedge accordingly.
*You can bet your last bancor that The Bernank, Geithner & Obama are being ordered to pressure Germany to choose option 1, as that's the only way that Goldman Sachs, JP Morgan, and the other best friends forever of the New York City branch of the Federal Reserve don't have to take big haircuts and aren't put in a worse position vis-a-vis other exposure they have as a result from the EU essentially downsizing.
Two does not exist.
The current US citizen charade would want that the current movement of debt mutualization is done at the advantage of countries like Greece and the rest.
It is not. It is done at the advantage of big players, including of course Germany.
The Germans, like any other US citizens in Europe, know that they have only way to avoid facing the bad side of US citizenism: blobbing up.
Blobbing up has always been the goal from the beginning.
Now, in US citizenism, clearly, it is much easier to monetize fallacy than factual deduction, so US citizens claiming that Germany had some other plan, that the Euro would break up, had the best spot light.
Still...
Need to add flaming cheese and breaking plates.
German's need veggies, too.
Really? they did fairly well with Weinersnitzel and spatzel berfore they added a wilted tomato.
Get ready Greece for der schnitzelgruben surprise up der tailpipe.
Hang them high, five at a time.
Cue Monty Pythons Greek philosophers vs. German philosophers soccer match!
All together, shout it now --
There's no one who can doubt it now
So let's tell the world about it now
Happy days are here again !
http://www.v-like-vintage.net/uploads/images/Cropped700/00062601.jpg
bloomberg reported a jeffries downgrade, i think??? along with lay offs
If zees iss true, then we have one of the oldest battle lines re-opened. This is basically a Greco_roman war, with a German proxy. Which were the two fascist states in europe last century?
And all the little sovereigns have nothing this time around and Rome has Germany and BrrrrrKel and Ze Pope or Il Papas!
And this time, the Trojan Horse came the other way too. Surely up-side-down times.
Greeked...
ori
watershed-day-may-this-pour-through-a-million-pairs-of-eyes/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=79vdlEcWxvM&feature=related
Classic MT...... the archemdian surprise.... :-) Thanks for that.
ori
"loosely Greece must give up domestic control................."
This is becoming a form of Grecian Formula-16 with Zyklon B.
This is all cute...until the Chinese do the same thing to the Americans.
Once again (like Hitler and Kaizer), Germany starts a major confrontation in Europe. Once again, Germany will be a boogy-man hated by everyone and fighting a war for Zionist Banking oligarchy for a "New World Order".
Fucking Germans, they just learn nothing from their own history. Looks like once again Germany will be buned in Hell.
ummm if they won the last time, none of this banking war would be happening
Well, well Merkel is saying it took 67 years but we finally won WWII!!!!!
The Goldman's of Navarone!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QpMonrArlHI
So who's playing Niven's character?
Basil Fawlty......
This is what the Greek would like to see in the end... Thanks Monte Python!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ur5fGSBsfq8
Please read a little history. The Kaiser was forced into war by the machinations of the French and Russians (with the help of Britain) using the balkans as cover. Hitler went to war to pay back the french for their rape of the reparations and the ruhr.
History is often written by the winners, but there are other accounts that are often, more reliable in providing a fuller picture. While the Germans are not innocent, they were not the ones who started WWI.
The Germans understand their history just fine. The publisher of Mein Kampt still refuses to publish that volume in Germany.
Funny - I was thinking more along the line of their Bring Out Your Dead skit.
NO Lube for you
The real Anschluss is described in this video by Kyle Bass:
http://www.armadamarkets.com/market-info/videos/
I want whatever AnonymousAsshole is smoking.
Seriously, man, this makes no sense whatsoever. Are you just a random-word-generating algorithm? If not, I think you need a transmission service, pronto --- your mental gears are grinding big-time.
He does seem preoccupied with something doesn't he?
I'm gonna break into a USA! USA! chant everytime I run across him...just to validate his psychosis, its the least I can do ;-)
I keep wonderin' whether he/she/it is a really bad AI attempt. Much-too-much rote out of context blah-blah-blah.
Or maybe he/she/it is ensconsed in the throes of the "Occupy" zone? ?? ???
'sperimentin needed.
- Ned
Could be a Living Color parody..
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Izpa9D7c77U&feature=youtube_gdata_player
It was around before OWS...but its definitely AI in a certain sense.
I actually entertained the notion that it was reverse psy-op (to gather up jingoism) but I discarded that after a few exchanges with it...its not an algo IMO.
More than likely a Chinese dishwasher, stuck in Shanghai pissed off for being turned down for a work visa a million times, because he's a fucking nutcase...lol.
I'm goin with that ;-)
I'm going with Chinese dishwasher too. Good answer, good answer.
goin' with "it"
and, as we all know, we're under constant observation as we post.
- Ned
Which makes it all the better...we can lead "it" wherever we wish ;-)
Pure delusion.
US citizens are now trapped by their set of beliefs, US citizenism.
They will follow US citizenism, all the other options being too painful for them.
US citizens have built a world of quasi certainty that makes their next moves known to all.
You cant lead me nowhere else than where US citizenism guides you.
And remember, I expect nothing else from a US citizen but to be a US citizen.
Oh my God, this shit is GOLD!
Please, PLEASE AnonymousAsshole, give us more! You've got me in stitches!
It just goes to prove the old saying: You can lead an AnonymousAsshole to (rhetorical) slaughter, but you can't make him think.
USA! USA! USA!
I see what you are doing Anony and thanks cuz we are trapped in a dark age of Serf Citizenism and owned by the corporation of the United States rather than free individuals in a true republic...
With the revelation that the USAF definitely IS funding large scale forum shill operations, complete with software allowing each shill to maintain multiple 'virtual identities', I would not be surprised if there's an option for the software to keep racking up post counts for each virtual identity. By doing exactly what we see here. Random text generated by contextual analysis of the forum. Then when the 'human' wants (ie his talking points sheet tells him) to speak, he can respond through that virtual identity.
So what we see, is a name that mostly talks like a crappy AI, but can respond like a human if questioned. A STUPID, ignorant human, but still...
We're going to have to put up with this shit, until the free forum sites come up with an organized means of flagging posters as paid shills. Something like a public reporting system to each forum (a standard graphic symbol meaning 'this poster is a government/zionist/corporate shill) with a visible 'shill-tag' count next to poster's names. The forums then report suspect poster IPs to a central 'shill database'. Bit like anti-spam defenses. Build up a blacklist of known shill-shed IP ranges, and then forums redirect those posters to some kind of virtual padded room. Where they get to chat all they want with like-minded AI random text generators.
Allowing the rest of us real humans to get on with a civilized discussion.
I'm sure Sac & company has a ball logging the IP's for future reference anyways...the better ones are a nice source of amusement. I mean really, Hamy & MDB...lol.
I don't worry about it...it can be a nice pastime just feasting on "our best & brightest" own paranoia ;-)
see something, say something.
More like a third world moron wannabe who’s plugging away for 4 cents an hour and all the the commandant ass he can suck.
Forget AI or any kind of robots. Who needs ‘em when you have humans, the cheapest and most easily programmable tool imaginable.
Robert Anton Wilson: “The most thoroughly and relentlessly Damned, banned, excluded, condemned, forbidden, ostracized, ignored, suppressed, repressed, robbed, brutalized, and defamed of all Damned Things is the individual human being. The social engineers, statisticians, psychologists, sociologists, market researchers, landlords, bureaucrats, captains of industry, bankers, governors, commissars, kings and presidents are perpetually forcing this Damned Thing into carefully prepared blueprints and perpetually irritated that the Damned Thing will not fit into the slot assigned it. The theologians call it a sinner and try to reform it. The governor calls it a criminal and tries to punish it. The psychologist calls it a neurotic and tries to cure it. Still, the Damned Thing will not fit into their slots.”
Yeah, you could hire a Chinese worker /w (MB) passable English to insert talking points for about $10/day. Hell, hire three or four & have them each post under 3-4 names a day.
Hey TerraHertz - great idea!
The next step is to transcend this virtual reality, physically round up the 'dissenters' and..well, 'deal' with them. I think you'd be very handy with a spiked baseball bat in a padded cell with a gagged & bound 'shill'. You'd probably get a hard-on whilst beating out some brains.
Why don't you move to Nth Korea where your talents can be put to immediate use?
My working hypothesis is that this Anonymous Asshole is actually a T-4000 supercyborg sent back in time by the last remnants of the Rothschildian elite in the year 2044 to kill the future leader of the Resistance to oligarchic rule, John Connor, whose political and intellectual awakening was triggered by participation in a ZeroHedge forum discussion on July 21, 2013, regarding the recent assassination of US president Ron Paul.
i'm calling the cops:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=0GEJgR-bX0w
"Not dead, just frozen." Parthenon, Acropolis to Anartica. Fourth Reich to Mediterranean. Call El Duche first to negotiate before attacking.
I'm with you, akak. What the Sam-hill is "US citizenism"???? Is that a religion where the accolates worship a single U.S. citizen??
Your guess is as good as mine!
It's like trying to divine meaning from the random babbling of an infant.
I think he has a suffix addiction
Alex Trebek spent some time at a treatment center in Santa Barbara for something similar
"I'll take 'Online Trolls' for $800, Alex"
interesting choice of words, yourself, akak...
as opposed to non-random babbling?
babies are such trolls sometimes!
Clearly, you did not listen to Obombya's State of the Onion speech this week.
L0L!!! you freakin got that right!
i listened to his first one and decided to stop when i found myself checking the time to see if it was time to turn on the radio for the second. i went for a walk instead. a long one
this year, i didn't listen or read it even here, but the comments here were +++
+++ tonight, too: we have the old money = debt economic "gospel" coming home to roost, internationally again
if everybody is so erergized about addressing the systemic 'problems' maybe they should address the fuking cause!
i've been reading this string for hours and i find it fascinating because nobody has a clue or a plan as to wtf to do about all the "debt" which is getting right up there with the sta-puf marshmallow man in scope, world-wide
i've already said that i thought greece should petition to join the united states as the best solution i could see, here. fuk the EU! L0L!!!
this is zH! we don't let TPTB have a fuking monoply on making up "solutions", here!!! wheeee!
Slewie, it is self-evident to me why nobody here on ZH (or anywhere else) has any meaningful plan to deal with the expanding Death Star of worldwide debt: because there is fundamentally nothing that CAN be done about it. One way or the other --- and there are only two ways here --- the debt will be destroyed through default. The Powers-that-be can either do it 1) through an official default, which will collapse every fiat currency and the world financial system, or 2) through depreciation of the national fiat currencies involved (the "inflationary" route), which MAY prevent the total destruction of the fiat currencies and financial system. In either case, the savings, and standards of living, of pretty much everyone in the world are going to be radically diminished or wiped out altogether. It's really just that simple.
notice the key difference (aka affected parties) . I wonder which one "they" will choose......
Akak,
There is a very simple solution to the problem at hand. In one very well coordinated action, you destroy: the menbers of the three branches of the US government (545), the CFR building during the big meeting, the leadership of Britain and Israel and the entire Rothschild family.
Probably 2500 people max and the whole world can go back to being normal.
Someone else would take there place... So is the nature of humanity... Wouldn't change a thing.
I can appreciate that TPTB were clever enough to use the advantages they had and still have. Most people would. Again human nature.
Spoken like a true sheep.
Social organization is human nature, the type of organization is not. Otherwise, we wouldn't have all different types. In a moment of liberty, taking the opportunity to create a better organiztion is completely reasonable. Just as the Constitutional Republic was an improvement over monarchy/merchantilism, better alternatives now exist to Constitutional Republics.
The danger resides in "the police power of the State" and the creation of law. Choosing liberty with responsibility over managed control would be a great start.
Well, good luck with your plan to kill 2500 people then. If executed, I'm sure all will be better in the world. Anything is possible I guess...
IMHO, with true liberty, their are no safety nets; people fear this, so they will organize, as a form of 'social insurance'. It is very likely from that point, misallocations of resources will occur. This is virtually inevitable.
The closest thing I can see that was a successful, large scale sustainable social organization was the native north / south americans pre 1492. They didn't stand a chance against the european social organization behaviour though. The choices we make from resource scarcity ensure human behaviour will oscillate between the various social organizations we have created to distrubute said resources. So culling even the top 10% of the world will, at best, only temporarily change human organization. The power vacuum will fill with the clever and ambitious; the cycle will then continue.
"better alternatives now exist to Constitutional Republics" - Examples please.
"The danger resides in 'the police power of the State' and the creation of law" - So anarchy then? The use of force by the individual for resource allocation and property rights vs the use of force by the state for resource allocation and property rights?
Liberty doesn't preclude safety nets, just that the funding for the nets be voluntary. If the spending is voluntary, how can there be misallocation of capital?
You might want to examine the Xeer system. Very successful and if the westerners would butt out, it would remain so. As for the western social organization- you are referring to war and the spread of disease. Hardly a social organization.
A free market assures the best allocation of scarce resources. It is the police power of the state and abuse of law that allows for the misallocation of resources and capital. There is no need to cull anything, we just have to stop allocation by government and return to true free markets.
The power vacuum as you call it would be local and decentralized which may create local tyrants, but not national nor global ones. Anarchy is quite acceptable as a political/economic system- you merely have to define it- which is the crux of having the liberty to do so. Resource allocation does not have to happen by force. It can occur by contract.
As the existing systems have completely failed, what have we to lose?
You want to continue a failed paradigm, because you fear the unknown, but the reality is that most of the theory has been established and merely requires the opportunity to proceed. The only losers are the free riders, as they are unable to participate as such in this type of economy- is this the reason for your reluctance?
Try "Anarchy and the Law" by Stringham.
"Liberty doesn't preclude safety nets, just that the funding for the nets be voluntary. If the spending is voluntary, how can there be misallocation of capital?" - Fair enough.
"examine the Xeer system" - Never heard of it. I look forward to reading about it. Learn something everyday...
"A free market assures the best allocation of scarce resources." - Agreed, but wants are unlimited, unlike the resources of the earth. Once resources start to run out, an individual will do anything to survive, including killing others of its own species.
"police power of the state" is necessary for the protection of individual rights. However, I fully agree that "abuse of law that allows for the misallocation of resources and capital." Esp. when the rule of law is changed or ignored to suit the top.
"There is no need to cull anything" - Your inital comment was to kill 2500 people. You have just done a 180.
If I was a "local tyrant", I would always try to expand my power and influence. Again human nature. The syslem would eventually be infiltrated and evolve to what we have on earth now IMO. Heck, the American constitution is being underminded on a regular basis right now. What started as a decenteralized system became what USA has right now, correct?
"Anarchy is quite acceptable as a political/economic system" - I feel that this is unstable and will (d)evolve to the systems we have today. I just think that on a long enough timeline, corrupt people will rise to the top and help themselves to all the resources they can get. Perhaps I am wrong about its unsustability. "Anarchy and the Law" may help in this regard.
"Resource allocation does not have to happen by force. It can occur by contract." - Agreed. There are more ways as well.
As for your last paragraph, what works on paper may not work in real life. I just don't have faith that any system can withstand infiltration and corruption from within over a long period of time. It sounds too utopian, and fails to account for the nature of the human race. Some people will do ANYTHING to get everything they can, some even just because they can. What TPTB did and currently do is not by accident, it is very cleverly designed that way over the centuries. TPTB accompliments are impressive as most plans do not make it past 3 generations. Rothschilds figured out banking was more important than military might before everyone else. Is that not impressive? Would it not make sense for them to leverage that information? Would you leverage knowledge that would put you ahead of others? Would you not want to maintain you new power and success? Of course you would! So to me, that is impressive. They made wise choices and reaped the reward to our loss. If it wasn't them it would have been someone else.
The police power of the state is not necessary for the protection of individual rights. Private property rights enforced within a private law system are more than capable and in fact, preferable.
My original remark was a little sarcastic (only a little), even these would fail without a federal state and police power ( for example, the elimination of legal tender laws would constrain all leverage).
You cannot expand your power without a network that centralizes power. If this is not allowed, then your power is limited. That is why the decentralization of power is necessary.
It is the nature of the human race to be greedy. There is no better control for greed than a free market. Which is why you must start with a baseline that NEVER allows the centralization of power.
Utopian? That is an easy complaint. It takes the focus off what is very real, everyday: the failure of the existing political/economic systems in place today. If what we have is failure, then we should look to something that can replace it, yes?
We have the locus of the greatest system for democratization in history- the internet. Leadership can be subject specific. Creation can be industry specific. Private property laws can best regulate the behaviors of bad actors. Free markets best regulate the actions of corporations and free riders. Communities can best provide safety nets.
Finally, they made wise choices? They made self interested choices. This is normal, however, they profited by creating a parasitic organization with the power to determine winners and losers based on wealth and influence alone. There is little wisdom in actions that place an entire species at risk. Just as there is a lack of responsibility by those that allow them to do it or never speak out.
Economic tyranny does not impress me, continued success in the face of free markets and real competition does. The TPTB have never accomplished this.
I did a quick read on Xeer system. Interesting.
"You cannot expand your power without a network that centralizes power. If this is not allowed, then your power is limited. That is why the decentralization of power is necessary.
It is the nature of the human race to be greedy. There is no better control for greed than a free market. Which is why you must start with a baseline that NEVER allows the centralization of power."
Ok, but what force could perpetually never allow the centralization of power? I just can't see it. If I'm a tyrant, I would find a way around that force via guns, propaganda, infiltration, control the food supply, monopoly, etc. Or a combination of these. Now we are back to square one. May take centuries, but it would happen.
"Finally, they made wise choices? They made self interested choices. This is normal, however, they profited by creating a parasitic organization with the power to determine winners and losers based on wealth and influence alone. There is little wisdom in actions that place an entire species at risk. Just as there is a lack of responsibility by those that allow them to do it or never speak out.
Economic tyranny does not impress me, continued success in the face of free markets and real competition does. The TPTB have never accomplished this." - Fair enough. Wise choices for themselves indeed, but they didn't start at the top originally. They worked for it in the beginning. That is what I like about that story. A jewler became more powerful than a king by planning well and planning a family legacy. Is that not success?
No force necessary, just an enduring contract. If it takes centuries, most tyrants will die long before they complete their task.
Even the Rothcschilds needed the ever hungry and depleted treasuries of warrior nations to build their power and influence. Without these resources, they would have needed to succeed in the market and their power and influence would be continuously contested- creating a limit to their ability to succeed.
It was centralized power that allowed for their ascent.
Success? That is a subjective measure. Obviously, you value their legacy of slavery,death and destruction. I do not.
Good night.
Whoa, you certainly are a creatific thinkerizer! :>D
to your 0:21 akak: vesuvius!
i remember as a child first hearing the term "100 years' war" and thinking: what? so, it musta been before i learned the f-word
maybe we're in the 'final phases' of a hundred years' war and we're just starting to perceive that we're about to lose a 100years' war? L0L!!! better late than never, huh, pirate?
Although your writing is often inventive, I sometimes still wonder if you actually understand Fractional Reserve Banking.
You are quite good at being deceptive.
Try being clear sometime.
Or maybe you forget that most of us seek truth?
well, fuk you, too
wonder about anything you want, just don't shit on slewie while you're doing it, ok?
do you know the difference between fractional reserve banking and: [debt = money?]
i don't think i said one word about "fractional reserve banking" here, did i? i wasn't talking about fractional reserve banking. really. i was talking about the false premise that [money = debt]. i was trying to point to the absurdity of debt = money and where it has led us, as a planet
how long have you had this problem with "inventive writers"? dude, you can't understand what i wrote? and that's slewie's fault?
or are you just another of the toy boys who are perennially anable to come to terms with what the US Constitution says?
the only 'truth' you'll find wandering around w/ yer head up yer ass is your shitty asshole self. just like 'most of' "us" everywhere
group-think about "truth" is still group-think, but you may have lost the capacity to say "i" and have it mean anything beyond the "normal" illusions; and be unable to get it back, too, perhaps. pity
and you "wonder" if slewie understands "fractional reserve banking"? L0L!!! what a fool!
i do so hope mr_W2 gives me higher grades for clarity now!
WTF are you talking about? Not even useful. At all.
What a flibberty-gibbet! It's like there's an autogyro in yer shirtwaist! :>D
maybe that's from riding a schwinn
or from packing this robotic greek sammy for lunch... ~~~|:< 0)
I was a young piglet when this post started ;-) - Ned
Posting obviously nonsensical garbage text should be an instant IP banning offense. There's no gray area, even humans with very poor English as a second language are _clearly_ human, and _always_ clearly human.
As opposed to a markov random text generator. Google it. These things _always_ generate senseless gibberish.
the pi-rat may not cross all the eyes and dot all the teas in china, but I can still get where he's going, grammatically correct or no. A shining eg. of content vs rhetoric. You're the guy that sent Pirsig's motorcycle maintainer into electro shock therapy.
Even if the 'America, fuck ya' team is bang on and AnAn is a dishwasher; at least he's working. No shame in that. Hell, it's my understanding that Eric Blair was into scullery for awhile. And if AnAn's goal is to sweep the duped jingoist garbage into a neat stinking little pile, looking above I'd have to say he's made a fairly decent job of it (with a few exceptions) 'reverse double secret probation psyop' or not. Now if only we could find a dustbin...
OTOH, i have to agree: if there was a point in that comment I missed it past getting the vague impression of a perfectly understandable disgust with those dreaming of some sort of American dominated global hegemony, which of course we all know is just plain silly.
AnAn: wtf is 'blobbing up'? 'Blotting up' you mean?
I would have no problem with this Anonymous character "sweeping jingoistic garbage into a neat stinking pile", as you put it --- in fact, if that were truly what he were doing, or ALL that he were doing in his innumerably similar posts, I would be applauding the loudest. What I find utterly offensive and revolting, however, is his implicit if not explicit (very hard to know which, given his bizarre use of language) broad-brushing of ALL Americans (and now apparently at least some Europeans) as being equally guilty for the crimes of our increasingly if not all-but unaccountable power elite, as if the mere fact of being a "US Citizen" automatically makes one morally if not practically complicit in the monstrous US neo-imperialism and warmongering, and the equally abominable US financial corruption and repression.
Does he not, or can he not, realize that there are MILLIONS of Americans who are JUST as repulsed by these policies and actions, many of whom are also FIGHTING those policies and actions, some at great expense to their pocketbooks and personal lives? It demonstrates the most grossly simplistic, intellectually vacuous and morally reprehensible failure of logic to condemn an entire population based on the actions taken by their political leaders. I mean, do I really even need to argue this point? Is it not self-evident to ANY rational person that this Anonymous Asshole insults EVERYONE by repeatedly issuing such flippant and repugnant blanket condemnations?
This is why I challenge and attack his posts with such vehemence --- such blind, bigoted prejudice against a single nationality is reflective of the worst attributes of the collectivist insanity that bred Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot. Are these "opinions" that ANYONE here should honestly be defending?
This is why I challenge and attack his posts with such vehemence --- such blind, bigoted prejudice against a single nationality is reflective of the worst attributes of the collectivist insanity that bred Hitler, Stalin, and Pol Pot. Are these "opinions" that ANYONE here should honestly be defending?
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This is not what you are doing. And you betrayed yourself.
I made a countless number of times the point that US citizenism is not US citizenship.
US citizenism is the same as Americanism.
US citizenism is not a nationality. It is a state of mind, a doctrine, a set of beliefs.
US citizens('Americans') are the proponents of US citizenism ('Americanism').
Noticeably, would I use Americans to refer to Europeans who are proponents of Americanism, it would be worse.
American Europeans is not satisfying and misleading.
Keep claiming that you defend US of A nationals when I speak of Americans as believers of the set of beliefs known as Americanism.
And you know this because in one of your posts, you claimed that Americanism did not exist and was the product of some leftist european propaganda.
As a US citizen though, your doctrine leads you to dilute your own responsibility into a group and try to expand the base group by claiming that pointing out US citizens, proponents of US citizenism, is the same as pointing out US citizens, holders of US citizenship.
When (if) you grow up, and realize that there is no such thing as collective guilt, and can put aside your blind, bigoted hatred of an entire nation of people for the actions of their leaders (as admittedly sociopathic as those leaders are), get back with us --- until then, you will remain one of the offensive, misguided, irrational, truly repugnant posters here, and I will continue to loathe and oppose your savage, hateful diatribes with every fiber of my being.
Behold the face of collectivist evil.
You should not have answered to that post. Stupid move.
It exposed you. Once again.
It wont certainly not prevent you from claiming that US citizenism is the same as US citizenship, even when you have read it is not the same.
But that is duplicity. And US citizens are duplicity.
Collectivism?
Laughable. US citizenism is a set of beliefs. When pointing out some features in a set of beliefs and by then, in the believers, well, it is mere factually based generalization.
Pointing out that Christians/Muslims/Jewish people do believe in one god is not collectivism, it is a totally valid general statement on Christianity and Christians.
You know, if you are going to attempt to converse with somebody, much less in a language that is clearly not your native tongue, the first thing that any rational person would do would be to NOT make up words, or assign arbitrary meanings to existing words, so as to utterly destroy any possibility of meaningful communication.
Aside from that little linguistic quirk of yours (as annoying and impeding as it is), it is still a fact that you continue to blame ALL Americans for the actions of their leaders, and tar them all with the same unthinking, ignorant, anti-American brush. You are as bad as Hitler blaming the Jews for all of Germany's ills, or any groupthinking tribal member who instinctively hates every member of his traditional enemy tribe.
Your own words here damn you as an irrational, anti-American, stereotyping bigot. Just WHERE in any of the above quotes do you not EXPLICITLY condemn ALL US citizens collectively? I mean, there is no disputing the obvious here --- you are blasting ALL Americans together. This is prejudice and collectivist hate, pure and simple.
You have over and over blamed "US Citizens" (which means ALL of them) for just about every ill of the world, you retarded Chinaman, and that is beyond dispute, so I have nothing more to say to you other than that you have my complete and total contempt, and I hate you, and every monster like you. Yes, I hate YOU --- but I do not therefore hate your fellow Chinese countrymen, as unlike you I am rational, and judge individuals AS individuals, and not as members of monolithic groups that do not in fact exist except in the mind of kneejerk collectivists.
The rabbit hole is way deeper than "US/European citizenism"
Akak wrote: "...as being equally guilty for the crimes of our increasingly if not all-but unaccountable power elite, as if the mere fact of being a "US Citizen" automatically makes one morally if not practically complicit in the monstrous US neo-imperialism and warmongering, and the equally abominable US financial corruption and repression."
I think you make a good point in insisting there be some further criteria beyond simply 'citizen' or 'resident' in order to share the guilt; in my mind, that distinction is 'tax-payer', as they are the people who do offer material support to the war machine, and they do it with full foreknowledge (if not comprehension) of the atrocities that will ensue on account of their, and everyone's, complicity.
Hey, made me laugh.
US citizenism is not US citizenship.
US citizenism is what is improperly called Americanism.
But hey, once again, proponents of US citizenism are just that, proponents of US citizenism. They cant admit that US citizenism is different from US citizenship.
Then WHY do you even use the fucking meaningless phrase "US Citizenism" in the first place, you moral and intellectual cripple? If you desire to attack the policies of the US federal government, you could do so in perfect unambiguity, much as most of us ZHers do here daily. But NO, that is not enough for you ---- you want to lay some specious and nonsensical collective guilt on ALL Americans, and so you invent your weasel-words in order to condemn EVERY American as complicit in the crimes of the their (sociopathic) leaders. You are an intellectual failure. Should I pity you or hate you? I think I will do both.
Tell me, do you represent the very best that the Chairman Mao School of Anti-American Internet Trolls has turned out? Because while you may have received an "A" in Blather and Annoyance, you certainly could not have received better than a "D" in Logic and Rhetoric.
Save your rage for trav, akak. At least your interactions with him are entertaining. And trav is a cool dude. I can't say the same for what you are responding to above.
Maybe you're right, VV. I feel like I am trying to converse with a limited and malfunctioning robot --- "I am not programmed to respond in that area ...."