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The Silent Anschluss: Germany Formally Requests That Greece Hand Over Its Fiscal Independence
Update 2: the first local headlines are coming in now, from Spiegel: Griechenland soll Kontrolle über Haushalt abgeben (loosely Greece must give up domestic control), and Kathimerini: Germany proposes Greece relinquish some fiscal powers, sources say
Update: Formal Greek annexation order attached.
It was tried previously (several times) under "slightly different" circumstances, and failed. Yet when it comes to taking over a country without spilling even one drop of blood, and converting its citizens into debt slaves, Germany's Merkel may have just succeeded where so many of her predecessors failed. According to a Reuters exclusive, "Germany is pushing for Greece to relinquish control over its budget policy to European institutions as part of discussions over a second rescue package, a European source told Reuters on Friday." Reuters add: "There are internal discussions within the Euro group and proposals, one of which comes from Germany, on how to constructively treat country aid programs that are continuously off track, whether this can simply be ignored or whether we say that's enough," the source said.' So while the great distraction that is the Charles Dallara "negotiation" with Hedge Funds continues (as its outcome is irrelevant: a Greece default is assured at this point), the real development once again was behind the scenes where Germany was cleanly and clinically taking over Greece. Because while today it is the fiscal apparatus, tomorrow it is the legislative. As for the executive: who cares. At that point Goldman will merely appoint one of its retired partners as Greek president and Greece will become the first 21st century German, pardon, European colony. But at least it will have its precious euro. We can't wait until Greek citizens find out about this quiet coup.
More from Reuters:
The source added that under the proposals European institutions already operating in Greece should be given "certain decision-making powers" over fiscal policy.
"This could be carried out even more stringently through external expertise," the source said.
The German demands for greater control over Greek budget policy comes amid intense talks to finalize a second 130-billion euro rescue package for Greece, which has repeatedly failed to meet the fiscal targets set out for it by its international lenders.
It is likely to spark a strong reaction in Athens ahead of elections expected to take place in April.
"Strong reaction?" Is that the politically correct parlance for "civil war" these days? We must be out of the loop on that one...
The specific language that strips Greece of its sovereignty and which will be plastered over every front page in the Greek media tomorrow:
Budget consolidation has to be put under a strict steering and control system. Given the disappointing compliance so far, Greece has to accept shifting budgetary sovereignty to the European level for a certain period of time. A budget commissioner has to be appointed by the Eurogroup with the task of ensuring budgetary control. He must have the power a) to implement a centralized reporting and surveillance system covering all major blocks of expenditure in the Greek budget, b) to veto decisions not in line with the budgetary targets set by the Troika and c) will be tasked to ensure compliance with the above mentioned rule to prioritize debt service.
The new surveillance and institutional approach should be formulated in the MoU as follows: “In the case of non-compliance, confirmed by the ECB, IMF and EU COM, a new budget commissioner appointed by the Eurogroup would help implementing reforms. The commissioner will have broad surveillance competences over public expenditure and a veto right against budget decisions not in line with the set budgetary targets and the rule giving priority to debt service.” Greece has to ensure that the new surveillance mechanism is fully enshrined in national law, preferably through constitutional amendment.
And here is the full formal pre-annexation order:
In the meantime, Greeks are already practicing the switchover in the national dance:
Before...
And after.
»
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Thanks for posting that link. She was a bit hostile. It's funny how it's always the "speculators" fault and never the fault of the people who spent us into bankruptcy.
Cameron was right, the underlying problem in EU is the internal structural trade deficit. Germany since the introduction of the Euro has exported unemployment through Euro finance to the enlarging EU periphery.. Remember until the Euro was introduced, Germany had a very large structural unemployment issue because the DM was overvalued and they could not sell all that they could produce. Now we have 23% unemployment in Spain while Germany enjoys full employment....
You may want to check your maths.... they are not as simply as plain redistribution.... they involve:
1. A positive feedback loop in the direction that is "down".... for all involved populations.
2. They involve germany outrightly replacing their entitlement system... as you may guess, replacing an entire system, in a time where the "president" says that he will "half the number of unemployed in a few years".... well, if under such considerations you can outrightly replace the entire affected system, you can design it to output whatever numbers you want (hint, if you think that US unemployment stats are fake, then you haven't seen anything yet. That is not to say that inside germany unemployment in terms of "people without any kind of job" hasn't gone down - it has gone down..... but hey, look what happened to the domestic market and purchasing power.... if germany had a food-stamp programme, it would be as high as that one of the USA (it has one, just called differently, and yes it is booming)).
3. Modifying wages has little to with solving the underlying systemic issues of the unemployment anomally... in ANY NATION. In almost every nation, the underlying causes of the rising unemployment, are not just unrelated to too high wages, but actually are ESCALATED by wage-dumping! (Really, it's kindergarden maths, if you only are capable of recognizing, that the premises of free markets, when applied to an entire society, are fake: Humans do not survive from nothing. Employee's do not enter the market with the free choice of making transaction or not... they have costs to cover.... and i don't just mean stupid costs, that may bancrupt some corporation, but rather i'm plain and simply talking about the threat of DEATH. So, there are minimum costs that a workforce needs to cover.... next up you may think, that this should result in the workforce DEMANDING that those costs are covered.... unfortunatelly, when you're threatened with death and a shortage of supply.... it doesn't quite work that way). To understand the overall underlying structual issues, it's not enough to be a capitalist.... it also isn't enough to be a communist.... or some other biased obsession.... you need to understand the valid concerns, as well as the falacies, in all of those, to get the big picture.
"A positive feedback loop in the direction that is "down" .."
The "arrested development" meme?
(It's not as fun as the movie & / or TV show make it out to be.)
Nah, it's just me ridiculing the "proper" definition of positive and negative feedbackloops, for being completely counterintuitive. But hey, what do you expect when you create a bipolar concept, that cannot express surplus, deficit, "various kinds of balances" without contradicting it's only two choices, or becoming ambigious.
P.S.: Last time i checked, positive and negative were concepts to imply overall opposides. So, intuitively (AND logically), it would make sence that a positive fb-loop would imply a reinforced surplus, while a negative fb-loop would imply a reinforced deficit. But hey, not the first time that academics come up with inconsistent things.
...about those "academics"... who does #2 work for?
Austin Powers bathroom
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J-YVt4gfquA (1:32)
As long as they get their 2500Euro check in the mail by mid month, don't think the Greeks really care. The question is how long until the checks stop arriving? :)
link?
On paper, it in theory sounds all fair.... after all, if you want to continue us to burden our population to bail out your finances..... actually, if you're flate out broke, yet just want MORE compensation.... then you aren't actually autonomous anymore, but a dependent, right?
Problem with that is:
1. For this to be a DECISION based on YOUR choices at all, you have to be able to say "No!" and deal with the consequences in terms of lack of easy credit in the future?.... do german politicians and their bankster-employers offer them the choice to say no? Not? Then how is this different from a plain simple invasion, just without military force?
2. We don't need to pretend here, that german politicians and their banksters, do not like selling out their population. Actually, the entire role of germany in the EMU, was from the beginning on designed to be just THAT! Offer multinational exporters cheap and quality labour, and then make the german population pay AGAIN, this time to outrightly pay the junkies to buy from those multinationals. After all, what could be more awesome for parasitary megacorps, than getting paid to produce AND getting paid to sell? It's like making everyone else pay your just bills, while you keep the profits. And of course, the banksters are happy too, as long as the bailout-machinery keeps going. And it's not as if the junkie-populations are any better off by now, right?
(if at this point, some sociopath wants to educate me about how good germany has it in the euro, because impoverishment is wealth, and slavery is freedom.... please go fuck yourself with a screwstick and bleed to death in a corner).
So yeah, what we have here has nothing to do with responsibility, reason or sustainability..... what we have here, is simply two sides of ponzi-whores, engaging in rethorics to pseudo-jusitfy selling out their populations: Global megacorporatocracy and bakster kleptocracy.
I just have one problem with this headline : The greek people have already lost their fiscal and economic freedom to the benefit of local corrupt Oligarchs. We have seen over the past two years that Greece is de facto a non state, like Libya today. The people have no say, the foreigners own the ruling class and the country, de facto. So what Merkel is saying is that we do not want to go down with you because of your corrupt Oligarchs. That is a fair demand. Only the people have no say, they have already been sacrificed in this global spiral by GS/Oligarchy conctocted lies and profligate ten years governance; as their Oligarchs having sunk the nation, now want to sink the banks who lent to them and by riccochet the other euro nations. Its a chain reaction that nobody controls, called sick capitalism. Merkel and Germany are as much ultimate victims as the Greek people.
At this point in time there are no free people and dominant people in Europe as the Euro drags them all down together in a crisis beyond every nation state's capabilites. There are free Oligarchs who have NO COUNTRY, and there are serfs, sold down the river via socialised debts in nation sate constructs and held to ransom by insolvent banks and bureaucraties, impotent to control their Oligarchical masters; rich as Cressus in off shore structures.
Your headline is too simplistic. Its a global bind and Merkel's countrymen are as much victims as all those PIGS sheeple. Merkel is not Hitler... O'bammy and COngress are closer to that title as they run this runaway world. Merkel at worst is like Quisling or Admiral Horthy of Hungary in pre 1939 Europe. Trying to stay out of the shit storm. Divided the Euro group falls. United they may survive with or without the Euro.
Very good description of things.
Unfortunately, Germany's role in the order of things of Europe is probably more complex than most realize.
Additionally, Merkel is stuck in the unfortunate position of striking a balance of keeping the German masses happy, and keeping the EU a cohesive unit. That's becoming much more difficult by the day.
As for Greece and the most recent "proposal"... well, it's another round of posturing. Greece can play the default card anytime it wants and leave the Eurozone. But the EU and ECB have gone way out of its way each and every time to extend a deal and provide the Greeks with another round of debt. Why? Because default is NOT an option if you want to make banks whole.
The worst kept secret in perhaps the world is that the Greeks simply can't pay their debts. Nada. Not gonna happen. The Germans know it. The French know it. The Greeks know it. Ben Bernanke knows it.
One way to deal with it is to simply kick the can down the road... and that's been done a few times. This time around, Merkel is dropping down some pretty serious stuff to the Greek oligarchs. Perhaps that will win her a few votes back at home just before elections. The Greeks will simply respond by bringing a hard default back on the table. Merkozy, on the other hand, has been adamant in protecting his French banking friends. And for some strange reason, Merkel has been surprisingly compliant.
The real question this time around are whether Merkel is bluffing. This so called "proposal" to Greece essentially DARES them to hard default.
The other choice is giving up soverenity almost in its entirety... and why would a corrupt Greek oligarch ever do that?
debts can definitely be paid by restructure: privatise and liberalise.
After all, the UK, France, Germany had to do it. why not Greece?
dont forget deters "you may not touch my monkey." i think there gona be more like shock the monkey or you can go spank the monkey
German Finance Ministry Team:
"We takes ze money"
"We fuck you ups, man."
"We'll cut off your johnson!"
"Ja, it seems you have forgotten our little deal."
"Ve vant ze money"
"Ja, and no funny shtuff"
Go Go Go....... Goldman Sachs for President
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yYbZkf_fTC8
And in some friday Humor, its official Dwarf tossing is not illegal in strip clubs!
http://www.torontosun.com/2012/01/27/dwarf-tossing-contest-at-strip-club-not-illegal
I'm predicting a European Spring !
Will there be a no fly zone over Athens? Perhaps Rome?
How about Madrid?
It has already happened. Especially in ireland and spain.... we're not talking about a handful of boring demostrations.... we're talking about 2% of the pop marching on the gov.... or decentrally organize demostrations in a hundred cities, at the same time....
That reminds me.... the later someway also happened in germany, when the gov introduced the measures to turn germany into a pusher nation....
They were ignored.
Hundredthousands of people engaging in widespread civil disobedience simultaneusly have simply been ignored.
The situation in europe isn't like in the USA. It isn't significant percentages of the population not having waked up, feeling cheated (even if perhaps with wrong associations) and voiced their discontent.... it already happened in major EMU country..... the reason why you're not hearing them now, is because nothing happened.... they've retreated to cultivating a "passive-aggressive" anger. The real discontent in europe, isn't what you see in TV or newspapers....european culture is changing into "suppressed frustration".
This is a great news for Greece. Finally, they´ll have a responsible government ..... two centuries after gaining independence. Well, better late than never.
Old, tired Greek national motto: "Freedom or Death"
New, hot Greek national motto: "Arbeit Macht Frei!"
Old, tired Greek national motto: "Freedom or Death"
New, hot Greek national motto: "Arbeit Macht Frei!"
I guess I really meant that.
Just let Greece Default already, lets get on with it. Ring fence the banks in Germany/France/and all the Countries in the North of Europe, try to save Ireland and call it a day. Done, or else "death by a thousand cuts".
Hey Tyler, what's the source of the PDF doc that you have up? Thanks.
Ironic that 65 years to the day that Aushwitz was liberated, Germany is one again attempting to colonize Europe.
The last time ended so well, what could possibly go wrong this time.
The only colonization, or takeover if you desire, is being attempted by the international banks. And in that the German banking industry is primarily operated by Jewish interests as is the European Central Bank, it seems that your outdated remark referring to events 65 years ago has the strong hint of Zionism.
What could wrong this time? Ask the Palestinians.
Outdated?
I am sure we can debate many issues. The slaughter of 6 million innocent people, including 2.2 million children will NEVER BE outdated.
My point was the unintended consequences of colonization are worth pondering before colonization not after.
For that we can ask Palestinian people. We should also ask all their Arab neighbors, who do little or nothing to help the Palestinian people, except use them for propoganda purposes.
We were discussing current events in Europe. And you are unable to discuss those events without the most outstanding bias in the history of modern peoples. The Zionist viewpoint has caused literally millions of innocents to die since 1917.
Daniel Bernard, France’s ambassador to Britain, overheard telling guests in 2001 at a cocktail party that the world’s problems were all the fault of "that shitty little country, Israel," was correct. Why, he wondered aloud, "should the world be in danger of World War III because of those people.”
I am not going to assume anything here.
1) What do you consider to be the most outstanding bias in the history of modern peoples?
2) What do you consider to be the Zionist viewpoint?
3) How has that viewpoint contibuted to millions of innocents to die since 1917?
Thank you for asking.
Israel is a war “nation,” armed to the teeth. They have the latest military technology that American taxpayers can buy—nuclear weapons, fighter jets, missiles carriers… They are an armed camp.
"We created terror among the Arabs and all the villages around. In one blow, we changed the strategic situation." -- Menachem Begin
“The Bolshevik Revolution,” said a leading American Jewish community newspaper (American Hebrew) in 1920, "was largely the product of Jewish thinking, Jewish discontent, Jewish effort to reconstruct.”
Winston Churchill, pointing to the crucial role played by the Jews in Bolshevism in an essay published in the February 8, 1920, issue of the London Illustrated Sunday Herald warned: Bolshevism is a “worldwide conspiracy for the overthrow of civilization and for the reconstitution of society on the basis of arrested development, of envious malevolence, and impossible equality… There is no need to exaggerate the part played in the creation of Bolshevism and in the actual bringing about of the Russian Revolution by the international and for the most part atheistical Jews… With the notable exception of Lenin, the majority of the leading figures are Jews…”
Summing up the situation at the time, Israeli historian Louis Rapoport wrote:
“Immediately after the Revolution, many Jews were euphoric over their high representation in the new government. Lenin’s first Politburo was dominated by men of Jewish origins.
130 million+ people have died under Communist regimes, not counting the world wars. In 1920, in a February 8 edition of the Illustrated Sunday Herald (London) Winston Churchill wrote: “From the days of Weishaupt to those of Karl Marx to those of Trotsky, Bela Kuhn, Rosa Luxembourg, and Emma Goldman, this worldwide conspiracy has been steadily growing. This conspiracy has played a definitely recognizable role in the tragedy of the French Revolution (Robespierre was Jewish and most of the wealth lost by the beheaded aristocracy ended up in the hands of the Rothschilds). It has been the mainspring of every subversive movement during the 19th century, and now at last, this band of extraordinary personalities from the underworld of the great cities of Europe and America have gripped the Russian people by the hair of their heads and have become practically the undisputed masters of that enormous empire.”
And we know the ramifications of what transpired with Lenin, Trotsky, Stalin and their iron-fisted control and butchery.
Excerpts from The Deir Yassin Massacre by William Martin | CounterPunch | May 13, 2004
“On April 9, 1948, members of the underground Jewish terrorist group, the Irgun, or IZL, led by Menachem Begin, who was to become the Israeli prime minister in 1977, entered the peaceful Arab village of Deir Yassin, massacred 250 men, women, children and the elderly, and stuffed many of the bodies down wells. There were also reports of rapes and mutilations. The Irgun was joined by the Jewish terrorist group, the Stern Gang, led by Yitzhak Shamir, who subsequently succeeded Begin as prime minister of Israel in the early '80s, and also by the Haganah, the militia under the control of David Ben Gurian. The Irgun, the Stern Gang and the Haganah later joined to form the Israeli Defense Force. Their tactics have not changed…
“From about 1938 on to the founding of Israel, Begin was the leader of the Irgun. That group regularly assassinated English soldiers in Palestine and frequently hung their booby-trapped bodies in public places. Under Begin, the Irgun blew up the King David Hotel in Jerusalem in 1946, killing 97 British civil servants. The Stern Gang, under Shamir, also assassinated the U.N. representative to Palestine, Count Bernadotte, in 1948.
"But Deir Yassin was not the only massacre by the Israeli Defense Force. That army, under Moshe Dayan, took the unarmed and undefended village of al-Dawazyma, located in the Hebron hills, massacred 80 to 100 of its residents, and threw their bodies into pits. "The children were killed by breaking their heads with sticks ... The remaining Arabs were then sealed in houses, as the village was systematically razed ..." (Nur Masalha, The Historical Roots of the Palestinian Refugee Question)…
"In fact, according to UN estimates, which some say are conservative, 750,000 Palestinians fled the site of the present Jewish state in 1948. Those refugees and their descendents now number about 4.5 million and constitute the largest and longest standing refugee population in the world. Many live in squalid refugee camps distributed in the surrounding Arab states or in the West Bank or Gaza, many retain the titles to their land, recognized by the British before 1948 or the Ottomans before that, and many retain the keys to their front doors of their former homes in what is now Israel, whether or not those doors still exists…"
http://www.counterpunch.org/martin05132004.html\
And then came Ariel Sharon and now Benjamin Netanyahu… who vaunts Zionist power – not the Jewish state’s military power, but its political power right here in this country. Israel, who refuses to make peace with the Palestinians – and the world. What follows is upon their heads, not ours or the Germans. The US needs to cut aid to Israel.
As Justin Raimondo of Antiwar.com says: "It’s time Israel paid the price for its defiance."
Goldman Memo:
...beware of Greek motorcyclists bearing gifts.
It is advised that all German Cabinet Memebers, EU Represenatives and Goldman Memebers etc... (bankers and politicians in general) use carbon fiber cars (magnet bombs don't attach) and kevlar jackets (for bullets).
Thank you for doing the Devil's work.
...with love, Loyd
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tth9krDtxII&feature=results_video&playnext=1&list=PL944A07942B44AB3C
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_profilepage&v=cJg99tGolNI
In an interview this morning on Deutschland Funk, the biggest German state radio broadcaster, German Economics Minister Phillip Rössler dodged 3 times the question whether if Greece "needed" a European commissioner to manage and guarantee the implementation of the IMF/EU conditionalities.
These Federasts will find their comeuppance soon enough.
Wow, just wow. I hope this signals the death of the Euro, socialist bastards.
I would say: Everyone has a choice.
But with choice comes responsibility. You can not spend without thinking about the return of the money ( except US of course ... )
Clearly, Greece DOES want money, otherwise they would not have borrowed 450 Billion for the last 30 years. So they have choice, leave EMU, be expelled from borrowing in the public market and start leaving as the rest of its neighbours, with 3-4 times less GDP per capita or, well, have Germany manage its finance. And this actually may well be the best thing to happen to Greece since, well ..., 146BC.
[deleted]
Holy crap batman tell germany to get off greeces face.
Mediterranean (latinate) countries live for today, screw tomorrow (which is why they are in debt past their eyeballs)
Germanic countries live for tomorrow, screw today (which is why they produce like maniacs)
It all has to do with the weather where they live.
The Greeks are massively in debt because their hand-picked by Goldman government officials/enablers conspired with the banksters to put them in debt. Should have defaulted when it would cost a measly 50 billion euros.
"Greece has to legally commit itself to giving absolute priority to future debt service. This commitment has to be legally enshrined by the Greek Parliament. State revenues are to be used first and foremost for debt service, only any remaining revenue may be used to finance primary expenditure."
In order words - Greece is being forced to pay tribute. And what is the penalty if Greece does not comply? Invasion?
Germany should realise - at some point the Greeks are going to say we have nothing more to lose, FUCK IT!
It’s not the Germans forcing the Greeks to pay tribute; it’s the bankers. Greece is a sovereign country; it can walk if it wants to. No one’s stopping it. The question is, can the German workers walk if they want to?
The Germans have always resisted the Empire. But with their brawn, and not their brains.
When the Nazis took power a little while ago, all they remembered about the Romans was that they had really cool uniforms and saluted by sticking their arms straight out. Halfwits. In warfare the Germans were successful against unarmed civilians, and defeated by anyone who was able to fight back.
The Germans have never been against the Empire because they knew it was wrong.
When they came to Rome, they did not hesitate to wear the purple.
"In warfare the Germans were successful against unarmed civilians, and defeated by anyone who was able to fight back."
Nonsense. They lost because they overreached and declared war against the US. Without the US, the Europeans would now be goose-stepping to school and singing Duetchland Uber Alles.
No.
Without the Americans, the surviving Germans would all be speaking Russian.
And, um, it's "Deutschland".
Okay, I stand corrected on the spelling. Yet again, if the Americans had not been in the fight, as in N. Africa, Sicily, and Normandy, the Germans would have had a much freer hand in the East. Of course, there again, racism got in the way, and instead of liberating and using the Ukranians, etc. against the Russians, they shot themselves in the foot. Point being, German soldiers were smart and tough fighters against military units.
USSR inflicted 9/10 casualities against nazi germany.
Yes, and millions of those deaths came in Soviet gulags where they were worked to death, not necessarily killed in battle (as was the conjecture of the post above -that the Germans couldn't fight against a real military). Of 91,000 Germans captured by the Russians at Stalingrad, only about 5,000 ever returned, as one example.
“Without the Americans,” i.e., FDR at Yalta alongside the man, Marshall Stalin, a major chunk of Eastern Europe would not have been doomed to despotic slavery and human butchery, imprisoned and forgotten behind an iron curtain with the blessings of the U.S. government.
"Germany has always been the pawn." --General George S. Patton
After a visit to ruined Berlin, General Patton wrote to his wife on July 21, 1945: "Berlin gave me the blues. We have destroyed what could have been a good race, and we are about to replace them with Mongolian savages. And all Europe will be communist. It's said that for the first week after they took it (Berlin), all women who ran were shot and those who did not were raped. I could have taken it (instead of the Soviets) had I been allowed."
His diary entry for August 18 quotes Gen. Juin: "It is indeed unfortunate, mon General, that the English and the Americans have destroyed in Europe the only sound country -- and I do not mean France. Therefore, the road is now open for the advent of Russian communism."
On August 31 he wrote: "Actually, the Germans are the only decent people left in Europe. It's a choice between them and the Russians. I prefer the Germans." And on September 2: "What we are doing is to destroy the only semi-modern state in Europe, so that Russia can swallow the whole."
http://thy-weapon-of-war.blogspot.com/2008/12/george-pattons-change-of-h...
“Without the Americans,” i.e., FDR at Yalta alongside the man, Marshall Stalin, a major chunk of Eastern Europe would not have been doomed to despotic slavery and human butchery, imprisoned and forgotten behind an iron curtain with the blessings of the U.S. government.
****************
Without the Fed-there would have been no WW #1
Without Versailles there would have been no WW# 2
Without Yalta-there would have been no Cold War-
As Lew Rockwell calls it, The Murderous Fed… Central banking and militarism are intimately linked.
“One can say without exaggeration that inflation is an indispensable means of militarism,” Ludwig von Mises wrote. “Without it, the repercussions of war on welfare become obvious much more quickly and penetratingly; war weariness would set in much earlier.”
By 1945, FDR was a feeble, sick leftist who gave away the store to his spiritual cousin, Joe. Patton was right about a lot of things (I first read his 1939-1945 papers in the 70s), but this does not negate the fact that the Germans started WWII. Without Hitler, they most likely never would have started anything. Yet, many here think that it was all of these occult, nefarious dealings by the Bushes, the bankers, and candlestick makers that brought the whole thing about, and that is just damned silly.
Um - yeah, as noted, the mistake was involving the Americans AND the Russians. Ooops.
Your historical observations are all incorrect. And you’d think you would find it embarrassing. Apparently you have forgotten that it was the German tribes that took on and defeated the legions of the Roman Empire.
And I guess I didn’t see all of the movies, but I don’t remember any historical evidence of the Romans saluting with their arms out; I only recall the chest salute. No Roman text, no Roman literature, no ancient historian’s remark, no single Roman work of art, be it sculpture, coinage, or painting, displays a salute of the kind you describe.
ATTENTION
People of Greece
Become the model country of the 21st century.
#1: Spend every euro you have.
#2: Declare 100% default on debt.
#3: Tell the eurozone to drop dead.
#4: Declare "money == grams of physical gold".
#5: Perform all local and domestic transactions with physical gold.
#6: Mandate: Greek government must spend less than tax revenue.
#7: Declare every form of "fractional reserve practices" to be treason.
#8: Declare that all banking in Greece henceforth must be 100% private.
Within 5 years you'll be the richest country in europe.
What do you use as an external trade currency?
How do you prevent people from exporting the gold?
How do you prevent people from hoarding gold?
You don't prevent anything. You let every individual do what they consider best for them.
What is the "external trade currency"? Answer: Whatever they want. Wanna bet that ANYONE is unwilling to accept your gold? Hahahaha. If they are, you simply convert some gold into the fiat you need to buy those "external goods"... just like everyone else does who has their own currency.
How do you prevent people from exporting their gold? Answer: You don't. When people earn gold, it belongs to them. If they want to export it (whatever that's supposed to mean), they can. What do you mean by "export"? Buy something from outside their country? Like anyone else, they need to spend their money to buy anything. Of course, if they sell anything, presumably they accumulate gold. That's the nature of "earning" and "spending", whether in gold or some alternative fiat, fake, fraud, fiction, fantasy, fractional-reserve stooge-debt toilet-paper.
You LET people hoard gold. That's called SAVINGS, and savings are healthy for the economy. It gives people wealth to invest or spend when and as they see fit.
AND, nobody is gonna lend idiots piles of physical gold, because they can't print or multiply physical gold at zero cost like they can fiat trash.
These changes convince people to think twice before they borrow or spend, because those nice, pretty, heavy, valuable coins in their hand... are REAL, and cannot be faked by the predators-that-be and predator-class (banksters).
We gather all German Debt to Greece ( avg 500 bill Euro from WWII !! )
We introduce ( I ADORE THE NAMES.. lol )
a. A Structured Investement Vehicle - SIV
b. High Grade Structured Credit Enhanced Leverged Fund...
We go "public".. and market the "products"... ie. Israel Banks, Russian Banks and Chinese Banks..!
We cc DB... and tell them " you buy the German Debt Collateralized Obligation - GDCO- paper, no interest, you pay 115%...up front and you keep it exclusively for 20y. Otherwise we go to the above mentioned interested parties.
Nice DEAL.. but we dont have the right LEADER in Greece to do it !! i WOULD.. in 2 days..
pp
German conditions should not take the Greeks by surprise, but they should take the decision themselves.
The Dutch finance minister suggested that they put the question of staying in the Euro or leaving it to a referendum, after debating all the pro's and con's of either move.
Staying in the Euro, accepting German/Northern conditions means long term chronic pain.
Leaving the Euro will mean very sharp pain initially, but continued sovereignity and a chance to get out of the hole longer term.
Goldman, of course torpedoed any mention of the word referendum, but it is the only way to preserve democracy and end the crisis.
referendum, then Honestann's
I find it appaling enough that the Greek people would hand over their freedom to such an extent that their own government (or even circumstances) can now impose austerity upon the individual regardless of what actions the individual may take. In a free country, during a depression most people do have austerity forced upon them, but it is not by their fellow citizens deciding all will be equally impoverished, but by their own actions and the circumstances they find themselves in. To my mind, once you have surrendered your freedom to the socialist state then who cares whether that state is elected by you or a larger euro zone, you still have no control over your own prosperity.
I am a senior "independent" adviser to the Greek Government and I have advised them there are only two courses of action that can save them:
1) Sell hard assets and territory, use the proceeds to buy a lot of gold, and then break from the Euro.
2) Conduct a sea and air military landing at Messina, Italy with all troops wearing General Patton masks, and only the masks.
Not so surprisingly, option #2 is gaining a lot of momentum and now looks likely.
Too bad Fuhrer didn't have the wits to rely on 'fiscal' cannons opposed Blitzkreig.
When will Zerohedge research how european insitutions work ? Maybe figure out that Germany is outvoted in all of them by 75-80 % Maybe also figure out that Germanys voting rights are limited in preference of smaller countries and so is not even represented to the size of its population something you cant say for its fiscal contribution. Yet "Ze Germanz taking over" is the only thing being written here as if it was a German attack of some sort or conspiracy. The only conspiracy that exists is non national and entirly embedded in the monetary system not just of europe but also America.
Tyler Durben usually rights more intelligent stuff, whoever this Durben is, he is doing the weekend shift. That sais it all for me.
Extremely observant. For some time we’ve noticed the weekends are either concentrating on the war clouds above the Straits of Hormuz and the duplicity of the Iranians or, as this weekend develops, it’s the empire building, goose-stepping Germans who will thwart the international bankers’ quest for world governance.
Perhaps it's to divert attention from Van Rompuy's announced quest for "world governance and Jean-Claude Trichet’s proposed financial coup d’état over Europe that he outlined this past summer while accepting the “Charlemagne” prize at Aachen, Germany - based on "financial asset stripping” by the bankers. Said the former president of the ECB: “In this Union of Tomorrow, or of the day after tomorrow, would it be too bold, in the economic field, with a single market, a single currency and a single central bank, to envisage a ministry of finance of the Union?”
According to G. Edward Griffin:”The goal of the organizations (the IMF/World Bank) was to create a world currency, a world central bank, and a mechanism to control the economies of all the nations. In order for these things to happen the United States would of necessity have to surrender its dominant position. In fact, it would have to be reduced to just one part of the collective whole… Furthermore, the World Bank was seen as a vehicle for moving capital from the United States and other industrialized nations to the underdeveloped nations, the very ones over which Marxists have always had the greatest control…”
As Griffin wrote in 1994: “They looked forward to the day when we would pay their bills.”
“It has come to pass.”
BTW, there’s no attribution to which German is making these claims. If Tyler has Chancellor Merkel’s statement, it would be more useful than taking the words of Reuters or der Spiegel.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/27/us-eurozone-greece-germany-idU...
Under the German plan, Athens would only be allowed to carry out normal state spending after servicing its debt, the FT said.
"If a future (bail-out) tranche is not disbursed, Greece cannot threaten its lenders with a default, but will instead have to accept further cuts in primary expenditures as the only possible consequence of any non-disbursement," the FT quoted the document as saying.
Sounds as if the Germans are trying to attach conditions to continued EMU membership that Greece is extremely unlikely to agree to. In essence, they seem to be trying to force Greece to exit the EMU.
Can't say afterwards, Germany didn't try to help. To me this is a clear cut case. Why the fuck would Germans pay taxes to assist Greece? It's complicated enough to figure out where the money goes. Imagine the bureaucrats trying to reconcile payments and expenditures in a different country with a different language and probably a different accounting standard. WTF???????
Not to mention Germans who are suffering financially, overtaxed already and then seeing the largesse of Greek spending that surely is going on? Wouldn't be a proper bureaucracy if it wasn't overspending, overpaying and overstaffing!!!!!
During the coming European DEPRESSION, there would be mayhem among the German people who are pissed off to no extent that they are paying the Greeks so the Greeks can satisfy their debt to the bankers.
Anything but a default is complete and utter bullshit. This is not micky mouse musketeer hour. The Germans are not thinking of Europe as "all for one, one for all". That only exists in Hollywood. Everyone for themselves. May the strongest survive.
i think that when "money" disappears, it is "misallocated capital" to the "economists" and macro guys. during boom times, everybody is making money hand over fist, but during bust times, "money" actually does disappear during deflation with economic activity slowing and deleveraging (trying to get free from debt), as i understand these ideas
"capital" is destroyed in the accounting sense similarly to how capital is created in an accounting sense when debt is created. to many economists, especially "austrians", isn't this just human economic reality?
however, to keynesians and other centralPlanning types, one-half of this cycle is "bad" and they are gonna fix it so that misallocated wealth never disappears: you kick the can down the raod and when you get down the road, there's the can! (b.bonner)
how's that workin out for them? look! our can!
but i'm not as comfortable as you seem to be with postualting what "The Germans are not thinking" or thinking, or do you mean angela?
but during bust times, "money" actually does disappear during deflation with economic activity slowing and deleveraging (trying to get free from debt), as i understand these ideas
***************
How does money disappear?
Money cannot deflate once it's created and by deleveraging ie: paying off debt-money simply changes hands-it is always "somewhere"
Money can be taken out of circulation but it cannot disappear-
Collateral based on credit/debt which "act's" as money in peoples minds can disappear as the value falls out from under the debt load-
Deleveraging can also happen by defaulting-but that only transfers the debt from the borrower back to lender-
Boxed-in Boxheads Bitchez
Here is my plain English translation: http://bit.ly/wwvBMt
I'm seriously considering buying some ProShares UltraShort Financials ETFs or even more extreme, call options of the inverse ETF. Risky as hell of course but currently a bargain compared to the '08 crisis prices.
If you're in luck, convert it to gold and some bonds after cashing out, and you won't have to work for the next few years.
Mark my words: they will print massively before that bet will pay off. Trade accordingly.
Wonder how things are going for the 1%ers in Davos? They are probably eating pretty well, huh?
Yes. Lock up your daughters.
Merging a new society is often a difficult task. Merkel and other elected puppets are no different than a fast food employee upselling contorted food value meals.
They only have one card left on the table. Throwing good money at the problem has only generated 1.7% GDP.
The last card on the table…..Watch very closely.
The Day the Country Died
An old ZH ranting post.. Nothing has changed other than repeating the same efforts to arrive at their goal. Google has moved into the picture. Silencing opposition is the other last ditch effort to meet charter mission timeframe goals.
Beginnings of the next great European war. Been saying it for months now. We are watching it materialize right now.
"Beginnings of the next great European war. Been saying it for months now. We are watching it materialize right now."
Probably. You have. I hope not.
Europe warring, isarel vs iran, usa vs china Russia which other pairs do we have for ww3?
Why would the Germans want Greece? This is like asking for and getting an albotross or boat anchor on the neck. Or throwing money in a hole. The Germans are smarter than that. Well, come to think about it, they did loan them the money in the first place.
Tyler, it's time to stop whacking it in front of your old Hitler reels. Germany is broke and if they try to take of Greece administratively, big deal; they just get to absorb the debt and become even broker. If Germany tries to come in there with force, they'll get the shit kicked out of them.
Germany alwyays ends up in the catbird seat. Well almost always. Anyway sailor, thanks for the "whacking off in front of" statement. Enjoy your shore dinner.
Glad you enjoyed it. Thanks for the junks. You have to admit that ZH and many of its readers seem to have some latent and deranged affinity for the nth Reich. For all of the talk of liberty and personal freedoms, there is a strange paradox here.
Being Greek-American (slightly - 50% - non-Greek speaking), anybody with a soul would eventually need to say something. Basically the argument that seems pervasive is Greeks are all pieces of crap because their debt to GDP is 200% while ours (or Germany's) is some slightly less completely unsustainable level below that. Do you really think that Germany lent money to Greece with some masterplan of forclosing? - LMFAO. So then the argument that follows is that if some intergalactic central bank approached German finance ministers and offered a no-strings-attached bailout of their peripheral toxic debt holding, their reponse would be 'no thanks' we would rather foreclose... LMFAO even harder.
If you know a little Greek history, you would understand that they are known for winning military confrontations against odds. WWII included. The Greeks kicked the crap out of the Musollini when the rest of Europe was bending over for the BlitzKrieg and then obliterated Hitler's paratroop divisions (never to be seen again) before finally losing to Hitler's tanks. Germany is nowhere near the relative military power that it was back in that time. Go ahead take over Greece's finances. Good luck with that.
Yes, I'm in the Navy. I've lived in Japan for three years and travelled to Singapore, China, Australia, Thailand, Korea, Hawaii, etc, etc etc. The skills that I've acquired are highly marketable and I'm not a college debt slave as a result; oh and I've enjoyed the time in including all of my shore-meals (whatever that means), civilian.
Is that merkel bitch really Hitlers daughter or is that just an unconfirmed theory?
I think it’s just wishful thinking by the demonizers of the German people. However, the UK Telegraph, on 24 Aug 2010, reported that “Adolf Hitler may have had Jewish and African roots, DNA tests have shown.” Saliva samples taken from 39 relatives of Hitler show he may have had biological links to Jews.
Says the UK Telegraph: “Jean-Paul Mulders, a Belgian journalist, and Marc Vermeeren, a historian, tracked down the Fuhrer’s relatives, including an Austrian farmer who was his cousin, earlier this year.
“ A chromosome called Haplogroup E1b1b1 which showed up in their samples is rare in Western Europe and is most commonly found in the Berbers of Morocco, Algeria and Tunisia, as well as among Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews.
“Haplogroup E1b1b1, which accounts for approximately 18 to 20 per cent of Ashkenazi and 8.6 per cent to 30 per cent of Sephardic Y-chromosomes, appears to be one of the major founding lineages of the Jewish population.
“Knack, which published the findings, says the DNA was tested under stringent laboratory conditions….”
Per the report: “It is not the first time that historians have suggested Hitler had Jewish ancestry. His father, Alois, is thought to have been the illegitimate offspring of a maid called Maria Schickelgruber and a 19-year-old Jewish man called Frankenberger.”
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/world-war-2/7961211/Hitler-had-Jewish-and-African-roots-DNA-tests-show.html
LOL!
Who gives a fucking shit about relations of Hitler.
There is the theory that a large percentage of asian males are decendents of Ghengis Khan.
What difference does it make?
It appears that it makes a difference to the guy who said “Is that merkel bitch really Hitlers daughter or is that just an unconfirmed theory?,” apparently in response to the one who said “Yet when it comes to taking over a country without spilling even one drop of blood, and converting its citizens into debt slaves, Germany's Merkel may have just succeeded where so many of her predecessors failed.”
What do you think the odds would have been of Hitler rising to power as dictator of Germany had his name actually been Adolf Schickelgruber-Frankenberger?
lol...probably pretty low.
Enjoyed some of the comments up thread on this and the general perception of WWII.
To me it was a host of factors leading to them losing. The largest, once it had started, is the age old "once ground is gained it must be occupied". To achieve this the Nazis "recruited" from conquered nations for manpower. Divisions were raised from everywhere they were and fed into the meatgrinder. The Grand Mufti of Palestine (al-Husseini) also helped in this regard raising troops for the SS. They weren't all blonde, blue eyed Teutonic knights...lol.
Of course, as with all things, timing is everything.
They were (Germans) farther along in their missile program, jet propulsion & heavy water experiments than anyone else. If not led by a madman and his gang of criminals they probably could have pulled it off.
For better or worse for Germany.
But there can be no doubt that the "idea of a fascist economy" did not die with the Nazis. The elites and statists still love the idea for the obvious reasons.
Greece must give up domestic control so Germany can bail out its own banks.
Wonderin' how many folks around here actually understand the implications of this word.
Just checkin'
- Ned
Thanks for the tip, Ned. As you know, it means: A political union, especially the one unifying Nazi Germany and Austria in 1938 into a 'Greater Germany';” any attempt at an Anschluss was banned by the Treaty of Versailles but Hitler drove it through anyway on March 13 1938.”
"Silent Anschluss..." makes for kind of an inflammatory headline….
Wonderin' how many folks around here actually understand the implications of this word.
Just checkin'
- Ned
BTW don't you love electing motherfuckers that just fuck you to fucking tears the whole goddamn time their in office? I suspect critical mass is coming, what else could you expect with 84% disapproval? Granted a good majority of them like my dipshit neighbors are still saying it's all Obamas fault and that Romney is the answer. This is the same group of fucktards who live next to the cemetary and the old man is a retired preacher/preist whatever and they had LED blinking lights in the cemetary on a statue of Jesus on the alter(I am not fkn kdding) the night of the rapture. And, this is a true story, storms rolled in and the tornado siring was blowing not 200' away and a funnel cloud was forming 2 miles down the road. Did they leave? Hell no. I was like you motherfuckers are going to be taken, but you aren't going where you think. True story. Now just imagine the most powerful people in the world and there satanic beliefs and the power that they have. Yep, we're pretty much fucked I seen that first hand.
If by critical mass you mean http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7avDRrjtgy0, then yes.
To wit:
I used to trust the media
To tell me the truth, tell us the truth
But now I've seen the payoffs
Everywhere I look
Who do you trust when everyone's a crook?\
Hope you're haveing a good one, RS!
Heh bro. Yep, 15 out of 20 beers gone I am having a good one lol. I ordered a beer machine here awhile back. took a month to get the damn thing. Then it had a missing part. Just got it today. Cheating, just using mixes but you can make a 20 pack of great tasting stuff for around $10 with shipping. I have several mixes. I ordered a Mr. Beer in '95 and it made great beer. Stout stuff also!
If only I could do that with scotch.
Cheers, Salute, Kampai, Prost etc...
I don't think I've ever re-read a rant so many times. And just read again. Wow bro. Thanks.
+
Global Dow and Dow Jones will be merged to entice global financial stability. You heard it first on ZH.. Media will promote Caveat Emptor under the pretense of new millionaires.. At the end of day, all suckers/gamblers' will be stating, cui bono.. Big Government will recommend new reform laws to avoid future oversight. Wash, rinse and repeat cycle continues.
The new Facepalm stock is another pump and dump short term bubble vehicle. I plan on participating.
Debtenhunds!
Oh come on people - I am Greek, please give us more credit - and I don't mean money :-) . The real endgame is Greek elites vs. Greek people. You all know that but you just go on pretending that we Greeks really give a fuck about what Merkel or Germany says.
I would say im sorry for you but being from the US I have my own sorry ass to worry about. So I guess ill say im sorry for the both of us. 2 years ago I told all of my friends "enjoy the preshow Hillary you cunt" referring to Greece and they told me I was nuts. Foreigners still have some kind of belief the US is the promiseland. We have a bunch of fucktard elites screwing us everyday everywhich way just like everywhere else does.
I don't want or promote violence, but stuff like this is probably what causes violent acts....
This is essentially taking away sovereignity of Greece. Who would want that.
Don't look at Greece, look at other troubled countries to start going on edge. Greece already had bombings etc pre-credit crisis. I'm sure there are groups in there that could set off at any time.
Or are people so beaten down that they don't care anymore, they want "salvation".
All will be fine. First send in the Italians, and when they get locked up, then send in the Germans. The English will then help the Greeks negotiate.
This just in from the land of beer and honey [more beer]
German Killing Group Faces Growing Backlash
A little disingenuous that you didn't mention that these guys are only killing crows.
When I was in Athens last year all of my friends said that they would not mind the Germans running their government. They said they couldn't do any worse than their own political clowns. This is the sorry state of affairs in Greece right now......in other news, who would have thought that Germany would have had an easier time, 70 years later, conquering Greece without a single tank or soldier.
I'm seeing it so clearly now... The Facebook IPO is going to mark the top of this market.
Update 2: the first local headlines are coming in now, from Spiegel: Griechenland soll Kontrolle über Haushalt abgeben (loosely Greece must give up domestic control), and Kathimerini: Germany proposes Greece relinquish some fiscal powers, sources say
Good luck with that.
So who's carrying the life assurance on the Thecnocrat that runs Greece?
The headline from translates to "budget", not "domestic" control (Haushalt = budget). The meaning refers to financial matters. The implication cited as "loosely translated" is that the control is over all domestic affairs of the country but this goes further than the German meaning.
Doesn't Greece ultimately have the ability to just say "fuck you" to Germany and the Euro and default on all their bond obligations?
Seems as though they are just delaying the inevitable to get as much collateral before doing so suddenly.
To hell with the Hedgies and the ECB and GS and CDS and any bond buyers or foreign interests?
ebworthen, this seems to me to have been the plan all along, from Greek govt's point of view. From the bank's point of view, it's a test tube experiment to see if austerity can be rammed up the tail pipe of sovereign nations. I think not. We'll see. JMO
I agree.
If I were betting on either side it would be Greece.
Sooner or later national interests and pride will take the place of Euro ambitions.
I think this is true of all the Eurozone; you can't impose an idea and symbols such as the Eurozone and Euro currency and expect it to subsume centuries of cultural and familial identity.
Doug Casey says in an interview with the editor of The International Spectator, Louis James, that “a more cohesive European Union is a step in the direction of Orwell's Oceania, which was in constant warfare with Eurasia and Eastasia." Says Casey, "It's odd how the world is becoming much more like 1984 in some ways at the same time that the nation-state itself is collapsing.”
Here’s the opening of a great interview on The Collapse of the Euro and the EU:
L: So Doug, a lot of readers are concerned about what's going on in Europe. Is this the beginning of the proverbial "it?" Or can the Eurozone be saved?
Doug: In brief, the answers are "yes," then "no" – and a "good riddance" to both the Eurozone and the euro. But most people think the old order should be maintained at almost any cost. That would include George Soros, who recently penned an article called Does the Euro Have a Future?
Now, I don't normally look to Soros for economic commentary, despite the fact that he's one of the shrewdest and most successful speculators in the world. He does, however, represent the way the Davos people, Eurocrats, and the ruling classes in general think. But just because he's made a lot of money doesn't make him an expert in economics, any more than financial success is proof that Ted Turner, Bill Gates or Warren Buffett know anything about economics. They're all idiot savants, a bit like Dustin Hoffman's character in Rain Man. But that's another subject.
Soros writes: "The political will to create a common European treasury was absent in the first place, and since the time the euro was created the political cohesion of the European Union has greatly deteriorated." He's absolutely right about that and goes on to say that to create a common European treasury, the EU would have to have the power to tax. So, he's saying that the euro should be preserved, and that to do that, it should be backed by wealth extracted by force from the average person in Europe.
But that's the problem with every currency in the world today; they're not backed by a commodity, but only by the ability of government to steal from the people. And the euro doesn't even have that going for it.
L: And the power to tax is an essential, defining characteristic of the nation-state. It's the thing that empowers it to exist and separates it from voluntary organizations. To create that power in Europe would really be to turn the place into one single country. It wouldn't be long before they had a European army.
Doug: Exactly. Right now the Eurocrats in Brussels really only have the power to regulate, which is bad enough. But if the European Union had the power to tax, it would become an actual empire. Especially if they then created a European army – there's no telling what kind of mischief they'd get into.
On the bright side, they can't really afford an army. That's the bright side of all these governments being bankrupt: They spend way too much on welfare and debt service to afford much warfare… I guess that makes welfare and debt good things, in a perverse way.
L: [Laughs]
Doug: Anyway, Soros went on to observe: "The euro crisis could endanger the political cohesion of the European Union." That's true too, of course. The EU is a completely artificial union. The Swedes are very different from the Sicilians, and the Portuguese very different from the Austrians. These people have little in common besides a history of fighting with each other. Force them together into a phony union, and they'll become mutually resentful, the way the Germans and the Greeks now are. The EU was put together partly to avoid future wars, but it may turn out to be a war incubator. It makes no sense for there to be a European Union at all…
http://lewrockwell.com/casey/casey105.html
And that is unfortunately what they are about. Even if they don't see it.
The debt cannot be paid.
The promises, pensions and welfare, even for the Germans, cannot be honoured.
Truth will out.
Bullshit. Where did Americans come from mostly? EUROPE! Did they suddenly change in mid-Atlantic to "Americans"? HA HA!
Greeks, it's time to kick the Germans out of Greece.
Why would the Germans be interested in working and sacrificing to pay taxes to support the plutocrats that rule Greece? Do you cherish the role of the world's financial dupe that the Fed has chosen for you, which is the role JP Morgan's Joseph S. Tanious, CFA, market strategist for the J P Morgan Funds,suggests for the Germans so he and his financial cronies can reap the benefits? Says Tanious:
“Looking at what is going on in Europe, a lot of these countries may have gotten into these problems through different avenues but the underlying problem is that several of these countries in peripheral Europe have amassed too much debt for the capital markets to be comfortable with. As a result of that, the cost of borrowing for these countries has gone up substantially. You’ve come together with this common currency, you’ve now 17 countries in the European Union who have formed or come together under the euro, and the issue with that is you cannot have consolidated monetary policy without having consolidated fiscal policy. It would sort of be like states here in the U.S. sharing a common currency without the federal government having the ability to actually transfer funds from one state to another through the form of federal taxes. We think the end game here is you have to move closer towards fiscal integration. It is one of two things; you either break up the euro in its entirety, which is extremely unlikely due to both political reasons and financial reasons, very very expensive. Or, the other way is you move closer to fiscal integration, potentially issuing euro bonds of some sort or providing fiscal transfers from the stronger European economies over to the weaker economies in peripheral Europe. This of course is not very easy to explain to the German taxpayer. People in Germany or core Europe in stronger economies do not want to be viewed as bailing out the weaker economies in peripheral Europe in the form of higher taxes, which is essentially what we do here in the United States through fiscal transfers at the federal level.”
http://www.youtube.com/user/jpmorganfund?v=mClGnJEJU9E&feature=pyv&ad=9767664058&kw=european%20debt
Or the profligate states go bankrupt? What's wrong with that solution? That's usually what happens when people lend and borrow more than is sustainable.
Greek economic concentration camp opens in Greece in March 2012! When are the Portugal and Ireland economic concentration camps coming up??
“Hitler came to power in January 1933, and opened Dachau”?
In the second round of the 1932 election (Weimar Republic law provided that a candidate needed to receive an absolute majority of votes), the German voters elected Paul von Hindenburg of the Independent Party. Hindenburg appointed Hitler under political pressure as Chancellor of Germany in January 1933.
Hitler didn’t succeed Hindenburg as head of state until two years later, when Hindenburg's death brought his term to a premature end in 1934. It was after the president's death that Hitler abolished the office entirely to replace it with the new position of Führer and Reich Chancellor, and cemented his dictatorship.
But why are you discussing Hitler here?
This is an economic blog, an economic discussion, and you’re bringing up what supposedly Hitler did, trying to tie him to current events. The only reason someone would do that in the vein you have chosen is in order to promote the agenda of Zionism and that agenda is clear: Israel needs help from a super power to attack Israel’s enemies in the Middle East.
There is no other reason to be discussing here what Hitler did any more than what Alexander the Great did unless you have the purpose of a Zionist. Hitler was defeated; it’s time to give up on him.
What don’t you and yours fight your own battles and leave the rest of us out of it?
JR you're loosin' it, dude.
This is about Germany, not Israel. Germany has been trying to bring the profligate Europeans to heel at least since Charlemagne created the Holy Roman Empire in 800 AD. Despite repeated attempts at military subjegation, they finally have hit upon the time honored practices of loan sharking. Encourage someone to take your loans until there's no hope of paying any of it back, and, viola, they become your debt slave. This is also called Serfdom. It may work this time.
Of course, nothingi ts what it seems with Eurocrats. This may be designed to backfire, and have the Greeks leave the EMU. But it may backfire in many more ways than anticipated. Eurpoeans have a way of doing the absolute stupidist thing imaginable when the stakes are the highest.
The bankers set up the Euro Zone, primarily as a step toward world government. It had little to do with either the German people or the Greek people.
And now the experiment is failing. The bankers would love to threaten all of the European states, including Germany, to turn over their sovereignty to them to be controlled not from Germany but from Brussels.
What’s going to happen is now becoming clear; the states are going to go their own way and the bankers will have to concede their defeat. You cannot harness a whole people; they will leave the harness because a centrally controlled economic plan always fails. And is failing.
And it isn’t Germany who wants to harness everybody; it’s France.
Phillipp Bagus wrote a book on the French hopes for the euro as a harness for Germany. Here’s a quote from a critical review of the book by David Howden:
“Philipp Bagus outlines how a post-war France constructed a powerful political plan to centralize control over a unified European future. In fact, as Bagus explains in chapter 5, during the hope-filled days of German reunification, several deals were struck which placed the German state at the mercy of its French neighbors. As Helmut Kohl’s own chief foreign policy advisor relayed to a French journalist just three weeks after the Berlin Wall fell: ‘[T]he German Federal Government [is] now in a position that it [has] to accept practically any French initiative for Europe.’
From Bagus: "The Euro has succeeded in serving as a vehicle for centralization in Europe and for the French government’s goal of establishing a European Empire under its control—curbing the influence of the German state."
Nope, it was a counter point to US hegemony AND a construct to avoid intra european wars as in the past; a lurking trend amongst nationalist minded countries in the context of "Reaganomics on the roll", in 1984-85, which would it was feared ensure permanent decline of Europe vis a vis US Empire; as with a USSR empire to east the continent was already ideologically divided. Don't take your eye off the historical truth and don't spout red herrings, using slanted pseudo hotshots, Bogus Bagus, shouting off about Euro Empires, concerning a country which hasn't been able to win a war or balance a budget in 65 and 35 years respectively; whose unemployment rate since 1975 has constantly been in the red!
Only one empire out there since 1945 in "free world" : pax americana.
When the Berlin wall fell subsequently and Mitterrand conceded that Germany should be reunified, the Euro was a means of allowing sluggish and bureaucratic France to latch on to German dynamism thanks to Euro, all the while ensuring that southern Europe would benefit from German umbrella, as these countires were not traditional partners of Germany, and France was since 1963. So Germany won at home, in Mittel Europa zone and France and latins won as well, or so it was thought with Maastricht criteria "fire wall". But that was before US capitalism went mad. No fire wall big enuff for that!
"Hitler came to power in January 1933, and opened Dachau, the first concentration camp, two months later.."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dachau_concentration_camp
More precisely March 22, 1933...that would be 3/22: 322 being the obvious Skull and Bones connection which has a particularly topical connection for this thread here [Warning-Yahoo Answers!]
http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20101102150303AAERp0x
[snip] (God forbid, this could suggest a momentous day for Greece and perhaps America as well in the next few months)
The Skull and Bones members dont recognize the year of Jesus Christ Birth as the year 0, they recognize 322 B.C as the year 0. Every document they write dealing with the Skull and Bones is always 322 years ahead.
Here is a Skull and Bones document from 1860 located in the Yale archives notice the year is dated 2182 A.D
http://images.library.yale.edu/madid/one…
2182-322=1860 the actual year the document was produced
It has been a mystery why this was until now,The Skull and Bones are known for being anti-Democracy and for a New World Order
322 stands for the year 322 B.C. Because that is the year Battle of Crannon part of the Lamian War happened.
The Battle of Crannon (322 BC), fought between the Macedonian forces of Antipater and Craterus and rebellious Greek forces led by the Athenians, was the decisive battle of the Lamian War.
**It marked the end of freedom and Independence in Greece. It marked the replacement of democracy with an oligarchy under the leadership of Phocion.
An oligarchy is a form of power structure in which power effectively rests with a small segment of society distinguished by royalty, wealth, family ties, or military control
-The Skull and Bones want to take democracy from America and replace it with an oligarchy
They're doing this by controling the Banks,Money, Politics, Military there in power positions all over
After the decisive defeat at Crannon (322 BCE) in which Athens and her allies lost their independence, Hypereides and the other orators, were condemned to death by the Athenian supporters of Macedonia.
Athens, abandoned by her allies, was at last forced to surrender unconditionally. In the peace imposed by Antipater the Athenians were forced to accept a Macedonian garrison as well as a replacement of democracy with an oligarchy
I guess the Germans (or rather the grandparents who didn't pass it on to their kids and grandkids) forgot how THEY felt after World War I when the victorious Allies put the hammer down on the Germans. They felt so good about their situation that they were ready to start World War II.
This is not good.
if you ask Lord John Maynard Keynes if the U.S. could be blamed for the Third Reich, he would say, “Yes.” Keynes warned that the heavy reparations Germany would be forced to pay until 1988 by the Allied Powers in the Treaty of Versailles after WWI, were excessive and counterproductive, and would force Germany, out of starvation and desperation, to war.
The greed cemented into the Treaty of Versailles led to Germany’s 1923 hyperinflation and forced impoverishment that led, ultimately, to WWII.
Reparations paid by Germany ended only a little more than a year ago. On December 10, 2010, The New York Times wrote: “Not many people noticed at the time, but World War I ended this year. Well, in a sense it did: on Oct. 3 Germany finally paid off the interest on bonds that had been taken out by the shaky Weimar government in an effort to pay the war reparations imposed by the Treaty of Versailles.”
In addition, this from Wikipedia: In a Reparations Agreement between Israel and West Germany signed on September 10, 1952, “reparations would become a decisive part of Israel's income, comprising as high as 87.5% of the state income in 1956.”
Later, “on behalf of US citizens, the US Foreign Claims Settlement Commission reached agreements with the German government in 1998 and 1999 to compensate Holocaust victims who immigrated to the US after the war...
“In 2009, Israeli Finance Minister Yuval Steinitz announced that he will demand a further 450 million to 1 billion Euros in reparations from Germany on behalf of some 30,000 Israeli forced labor survivors. Israel has also sought large discounts on the purchase of two German-built MEKO warships.”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reparations_Agreement_between_Israel_and_West_Germany
I don't know, do you expect the Greeks to annex Macedonia or "liberate" Constantinople now ? The next Alexander would only have the Turkish textile industry to plunder...
Greece owes more as a country than their economy can repay. Any tax and austerity measures will be counterproductive as the productive citizens can already see that their work is going increasingly to benefit others. They're not going to grow their way out. They are not going to work their way out. The debt is just not happenning. Once you get to the point where people are not going to get the debt they were promised, the only question is how big are the haircuts. I say make the haircuts huge. Like 100%. No one is willingly going to lend to Greece anyway. Why are we acting like retards for all these years?
NO WAY--soon we will all hear the ancient and eternal voice of King Leonithes reminding us "THIS IS SPARTA"!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Back to the vote and voice of the ancient Greek spirit my friends!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
"compliance" .... otherwise known as "Staatsgewalt" .
lots of great comments, JMO, but, here goes. The reason Greece didn't default earlier, as many here mention, was to continue the diet of Euros, 'till this forced austerity shit came up. Now she will default, after some citizen revolting, and go Drachma, trade fish and shipping, whatever. For sure the Greek leadership will TRY to cede their fiscal powers, citizens will show what happens when "we've" got numbers, fuck "your" guns, watch and see! JMHO
All their trade in drachmas will be to used to pay tax (rent) on property seized by the bankers. They are tenants now. Go long Hemlock...
Mike Shedlock: Prepare for Greece to Leave Eurozone; German Government Calls for Greece to Cede Sovereignty Over Tax and Spending Decisions to Eurozone "Budget Commissioner"; Text of the German Demands, 27 January 2012, by Mike Shedlock (MISH'S Global Economic Trend Analysis)
http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2012/01/prepare-for-greece-to-leave-eurozone.html
Mike Shedlock: Expect Greek "Bank Holiday" Soon
Perhaps I am mistaken but I do not see any chance Greece will agree with this proposal.
German and IMF demands make meaningless any hint of a deal "soon". Germany has signaled it has had enough and will not throw another 130 billion euros down a rathole.
The IMF signaled the same thing but not as emphatically.
Thus, if Germany does not back down and the IMF insists on a 10-page list of “prior actions” a Greek exit from the Eurozone is at hand.
Look for a "bank holiday" in Greece soon.
Agree with Mish. It’s Game Over for Greece! The hedge funds want to tricker their CDS insurances and make some money on the way by stalling the negotiations.
6-7 banks will pulled into the black hole they’ve created for themselves by insane leveraging and phony bookkeeping with the shadow banking system and mark-to-alice in wonderland accounting not to mention the toxics. Once moneystreams dry up the looting halts.
It would be better for Greece to repo their moneystreams from the hedge fund hyana croud so they can built up their economy again after the default.
If not it will be a long cold turkey from some very bad drug called ECB.
And one question I would like to ask Tyler, how can “Greece Hand Over Its Fiscal Independence” to some alleged unknown German boogeyman when Greece (Goldman) is already dependent on the ECB (money printing)? That’s Banker Socialism 101.
I think the following supports my claim that this is a banker, not a German, takeover of Greece and, ultimately, the entire euro area:
A budget commissioner has to be appointed by the Eurogroup with the task of ensuring budgetary contro…
The new surveillance and institutional approach should be formulated in the MoU as follows: “In the case of non-compliance, confirmed by the ECB, IMF and EU COM, a new budget commissioner appointed by the Eurogroup would help implementing reforms. The commissioner will have broad surveillance competences over public expenditure and a veto right against budget decisions not in line with the set budgetary targets and the rule giving priority to debt service.” Greece has to ensure that the new surveillance mechanism is fully enshrined in national law, preferably through constitutional amendment."
You can write a lot of $hit on rumors here. Oh, and you've already done it.
I wonder how you say "Go Fuck Yourself and Fuck your banks too!" in Greek
???? ????????? ????? ??? ?? ???????? ???.-
pp
ANTE GAMITHITE ESEIS KAI OI TRAPEZES SAS.-
PP
Reflections on Europes financial woes. Special subject: the economies of the European Community. Which debt is owed by whom? Who will pay the bill?
This short video explains it in 3 minutes:
http://www.webcompact.net/index.php/news/4795-euro-collapse-explained-in-3-minutes-
These comments here are totally idiotic. Is it really better for Greeks to continue with the current bunch of corrupted politicians?! What is the point of "sovereignty" if it is tainted totally with crooked leaders?
Greece as society even beyond what Las Vegas with American mafia went through during 1960-1980's. Most Greek politicians and other elite members are like John Gotti squared. Almost everybody is on the take. Greece is by far the most corrupted Eurozone country, even southern Italy with Sicily would lose in that game. They really need outsider help.
Germans would rather kick Greece out of Eurozone but it seems not possible and Greeks do not want to do that either.
We'll see a sell off (deflation) in all asset classes before this is settled...(Equities, metals, etc...)...when the dust clears...You better own physical gold and silver...That much is obvious!
Then the inflationary fuel will fan a huge jump...If you want to win big...Use any fiat you have and buy the PM juniors!!! They are poised to go gangbusters at some point...It may happen all at once...Twist your head in hindsight and say "damn I wish I would have put something on them"...Internet stocks ala 1999 times 10!!!
Steady money will be secured in the large cap minors...GG, NEM, GF...PAAS...SSRI...etc...
1. Absolute priority to debt service
Greece has to legally commit itself to giving absolute priority to future debt service. This commitment has to be legally enshrined by the Greek Parliament. State revenues are to be used first and foremost for debt service, only any remaining revenue may be used to finance primary expenditure. This will reassure public and private creditors that the Hellenic Republic will honour its comittments after PSI and will positively influence market access. De facto elimination of the possibility of a default would make the threat of a non-disbursement of a GRC II tranche much more credible. If a future tranche is not disbursed, Greece can not threaten its lenders with a default, but will instead have to accept further cuts in primary expenditures as the only possible consequence of any non-disbursement.
2. Transfer of national budgetary sovereignty
Budget consolidation has to be put under a strict steering and control system. Given the disappointing compliance so far, Greece has to accept shifting budgetary sovereignty to the European level for a certain period of time. A budget commissioner has to be appointed by the Eurogroup with the task of ensuring budgetary control. He must have the power a) to implement a centralized reporting and surveillance system covering all major blocks of expenditure in the Greek budget, b) to veto decisions not in line with the budgetary targets set by the Troika and c) will be tasked to ensure compliance with the above mentioned rule to prioritize debt service.
i DONT KNOW IF ANY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD COULD ACCEPT LOOSING SOVEREIGNTY IN SUCH MANNER.
GREECE/HELLAS WILL NOT. THEY PERFORM THE UGLIEST FASCIST EXERCISE ON GREECE/HELLAS AND I FORESEE
TROUBLE COMING. TROUBLE TO EU AND THE MARKETS. THERE IS NO EXCUSE FOR EU/GERMANY TO ESTABLISH A FASCIST RIGIME ON A MEMBER STATE... !!!!!!!!!!
PP
We are sitting in the same boat. Honestly, as a German I don't fucking care about the Greek political system. And why should I? It's none of my business. We Germans should not be forced to pay one cent to Greek people. Nobody should. Not the Dutch, not the Finns, etc. And the Greek people should not be forced to give up one Iota of their sovereignty.
Why should I hate the Greek people? I am speaking of the ordinary Greek people. I think they are going through a horrible time. And so do many Germans I've spoken to. Do you really think that the ordinary German want this?
This is not working. And we all know it. End the current EU, end this currency union. We Germans exported very well before the EURO experiment started. You think it is because of the Euro that we export so much? Nope. It's because of the cheap labour in my country. Unlike our European neighbours we do not have a minimum wage. There are people out there in Germany that work for 1 Euro per hour. Can you top that? I guess slavery is the next hip thing here. I am tired of this shit. More and more Germans are waking up every morning knowing that they will never be able to retire. Actually the whole system here is built around this. But what is the average German concerned about? He is not better than his American, English, Greek counterpart. Which show is the most popular here? It's called "I'm a Celebrity...Get Me Out of Here!" - an international format, imported from Great Britain. Watching a bunch of former "stars" in the jungle and watching tits. I am not a killjoy - I don't fucking care about that. But it's a sad story as a whole.
There will be a lot of anger when this thing explodes here in Germany. And this anger will be directed towards the German elite.
I concur with your position as I have posted earlier. This Oligarchy NWO thingie is a corrupt reset mechanism; whereby the Reagan-Thatcher legacy has bequeathed to the world a financialised economy allowing Oligarchs world wide to grow rich using international labour arbitrage and misallocation of money and RM. And they are doing it very efficiently.
To save the first world people, if we don't want to go to total 300 Euro per month slave labour reset without pensions and social services, all part of Oligarchy reset, we have to :
1° Change the political construct. This is imperative. On both sides of the Atlantic space. This is the killer today...as we do not adhere to same civilization values, and this divide, alas, will grow. This political and social model decoupling along with financial decoupling could degenerate into dire confrontation and first world CONFLICT. USA Oligarchs will not give in easy if their construct implodes and Euro zone goes to more social and protectionist type economic and political constructs.
2° Bring back industry to first world, by encouraging networked local/regional value added economies. Where large and small companies use our innovative base to create value added MINIMISING non local inputs, or doing it on a neutral balance of trade basis with other continents where socio-political environment is different. Massive paradigm change. Germany is doing it in energy.
3° Regulate the shit out of this financial ponzi, cancer type scheme. Tell the Oligarchs they will hang by their necks, or worse, if they think a ONE square mile of territory in London and similar uber niche in WS -NY/DC runs the world to the benefit of the 0.1%. This also includes regulating the first world off-shore havens storing 25 T of Oligarchy treasure. We are 700-800 million first world citizens and we should all make sure our elected reps. adhere to these minimal conditions. Or there will be civil strife and totalitarian statist rule, that will destroy the Oligarchs and the western people.
This cancer is mortal. It needs to be taken seriously by this and future generations. If we do not react the Oligarchs/political front men will lead the nations to ruin, like the Comnenos Oligarchs of Constantinople did to Greece in middle ages.
I don't think that waiting for the ponzi to implode is a good solution in itself. If we don't as nation states learn the true lessons for a fair and balanced reset. Its now basically civilization change on the agenda, as the "Atlantic age" comes to an end. This has to be accepted by all first world populations. The world cannot just be exploited to the benefit of Western Oligarchs, Corporations and trickle down to western nation states citizens, as in the old welfare state construct that Reaganomics/NWO has torn down for the sole benefit of this new global Oligarchy order.
Charybdis of welfare state inefficient construct that is dying and Scylla of world new feudal Oligarchy that is rising. We have to avoid both to survive. The Oligarchs have their role, if they be trail blazers and new frontiersmen; not plutocrats living off status quo and its inherent crony corruption now gone mega viral.
Got gold, oh good common German volks bitchez?
P.S. I don't think the Germans, or Greece's J6P types will go for this, ultimately. The elite Eurocrats are simply causing the pitchforks to be sharpened and the guillotine readied, in the hearts of their common folks, with such suggestions. I could be wrong.
Go read my comment # 2105411
Thank you PY-129-20
Your anger shopuld be directed to DB..! SIEMENS n FERROSTAAL n KRUPP ect
PP
The Greek military should just overthrow the government if they pull that crap.
If you want cash, and only the German window is open, you learn to speak German better than the next Greek. Human Nature is a constant; there is no real drama here all over again.