This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Silver Explodes As DJIA Closes Above 13,000

Tyler Durden's picture





 

After 22 crosses yesterday, and 12 more today, the Dow managed to close above 13000. Transports were lower but less so on Oil's modest retracement (though the Brent-WTI spread remained around $15). While stocks closed modestly higher, volatility and correlation markets remained considerably higher than would be expected and along with quite considerable relative weakness in HYG (the high yield bond ETF) into the close as well as a clear up-in-quality rotation was evident as investment grade credit outperformed notably (not exactly a high-beta risk-on shift). Apple's meteoric rise helped drag Tech to first place overall today and also YTD followed closely (YTD) by financials both up around 14%. The last week or so of slow bleed higher in stocks has notably not been led by a short-squeeze in general - based on our index of most shorted names - but as is becoming more and more clear, divergences (and canaries) are appearing all over the place but we suspect can be traced back to Apple in many cases for its over-weighting impact. Treasuries slid lower (higher in yield) after Europe's close but remain better on the week and modestly flatter across the curve. Aside from a hiccup around the macro data this morning, EUR pushed higher all day against the USD shifting into the green by the US close as JPY stabilized. The USD weakness helped Copper and Gold leak higher but Silver was the massive winner, now up an impressive 4.3% since Friday and 30% YTD as WTI lost $107 and is now down over 3% on the week. The IG rotation coupled with vol decompression makes some (nervous) sense heading into the LTRO results but it seems the new safe-haven trade is Apple (whose option prices are now the most complacent since early 2009).

 

12 more crossovers today and finally we get the much-heralded Dow 13000 close...

with stocks overall led by Apple (tech) and Financials both of which overall remain the best performers YTD...

...but while stocks limped along in a narrow range on 'average' volume, investment grade credit rallied handsomely this afternoon and HYG (the high yield bond ETF) sold off quite significantly (relative to the risk-on sentiment in stocks)...

...and while VIX managed a small down day, overall the vol trend is negative or less exuberant than stocks would infer - especially if we look out across the term structure and wings of the vol surface (and implied correlation)...

It would appear that the momentum-driven excitement has slowed this last week or so and much of that seems to be due to the short-squeeze fanaticism being largely wrung out. Our most-shorted index (in which we took profits) has pulled back to 'fair' with the overall market (orange oval) since inception suggesting much less squeeze pressure (of course that is outside of AAPL).

...and while Treasuries leaked lower (higher in yield) this afternoon and the USD also leaked lower driven mainly by EUR strength, the dispersion in commodities was again the big story with Oil dropping considerably on IAEA chatter and SPR rumors and Silver exploding higher on, well who knows other than high beta catch-up ahead of the LTRO perhaps.

Charts: Bloomberg

Bonus chart: Apple's option prices imply the most complacency with regard to downside concerns since May 2009. This chart tracks short-term and long-term options prices implied distribution skew - i.e. how different from a normal distribution are the prices of Apple's options saying its expected returns are going to be... the answer is - the most skewed to the upside (with little concern for downside) in almost 3 years. As an aside, the kurtosis (or fat-tailed expectations for long- and short-term are in line - often a sign of a trend stalling).


 


- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Tue, 02/28/2012 - 17:55 | Link to Comment Loyal2Liberty
Loyal2Liberty's picture

Silver bitchez!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 17:57 | Link to Comment maxmad
maxmad's picture

Bullion Bitchez!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:13 | Link to Comment spiral_eyes
spiral_eyes's picture

Apple is a bubble, bitches!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:17 | Link to Comment MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

Stages of a bubble:

Linear Uptrend: Smart value investors and arbitrageurs accumulate safely at below below fair value prices (well below $5 for silver)

Speculative Mania: Self-righteous libertarians start betting dangerous amounts of money while spreading increasingly elaborate conspiracy theories to justify their obsession

Total Euphoria: Greedy and delusional amateurs scramble to get their hands on every ounce in an effort to satisfy their insatiable self-indulgence

Initial Sell Off: Annihilation of the ravenous and suicidal lemmings who have by now been totally possessed by greed

{We are here} -> Bull Trap: Die hard silverbugs pump what is left of a dying market which sucks in the last of the pack

Capitulation: Total obliteration of the remaining rabble

 

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:18 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

MDB - You are here:

Total-Linear-Thinker-Mania

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:58 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

I'd say much of the move today in silver was JPM and HSBC covering their shorts - so who are the evil speculators again?  But many have stated that once $34.50 then $35.60 Ag is breached, look out.

If you simply think for a moment why a large bank would short PM's in the first place (during a period of the largest central bank balance sheet expansion in HISTORY) you come the the rational conclusion that they are complicit in the collusion to keep a lid on the currency debauchery, so the debauchery yardstick (PM's) need to be kept down.  The proof is there, yet yellow-bellies like the CFTC seem to be intent on ignoring the blatantly obvious.

Either that or they (like MDB) own Berkshire stock.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:06 | Link to Comment nope-1004
nope-1004's picture

I don't want to come across as condescending to MDB, but I thought I should clarify for the record what the real stages of a bubble are.  It was Jean-Paul Rodrigue from Hofstra University who came up with the graph.

http://people.hofstra.edu/jean-paul_rodrigue/images/Manias%20Bubbles.pdf

I believe we are just exiting the Bear Trap.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:08 | Link to Comment CharlieSDT
CharlieSDT's picture

Good one by MDB today.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 20:00 | Link to Comment Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

MDB seems genuine in his posts but there are some folk here who think that his posts are really subtle sarcasm. I'd like to know if MDB considers his postings as subtle sarcasm or real insights. If it is sarcasm, then he is doing a dis-service to the newbies who might be struggling with this awakening. He gets so many down arrows that, if he is being sarcastic, his delivery needs work. 

MDB, if you are for real and truly believe this then there is little we can do for you as you have been posting the same tripe for ages. If not, then let the unwashed in on your little joke.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 20:17 | Link to Comment Spirit Of Truth
Spirit Of Truth's picture

MDB is a breath of fresh air @ ZH!

Long live Israel!

http://thespiritoftruth.blogspot.com/2012/02/dow-13k.html

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 22:07 | Link to Comment prole
prole's picture

MDB posts, like fine wine, are better on days when -

A- You have got three or four drinks in you

B- ZH threads start with "Silver Explodes"

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 05:32 | Link to Comment Hugh G Rection
Hugh G Rection's picture

Long Live Israel indeed!

I laugh at the beastly Goyim and their futile attempts to hedge against our global Zionist monetary empire.  Relying on barbarous relics to preserve wealth, little do they know the Gentiles we allow to live in the upcoming decade will need an RFID chip to conduct any transactions.

Let me say this very categorically.  You talking monkeys cannot change centuries of planning.  We have subverted and control every major economy in this world through, biribery, blackmail, and vicious psychopathy.  Your masses of socially engineered mouth breathers will die or submit.

We are the Learned Elders of Zion!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 20:27 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

MDB is all sarcasm, all the time.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 04:54 | Link to Comment prains
prains's picture

MDB's fatgina needs a trim

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 21:19 | Link to Comment economics1996
economics1996's picture

Somedays are better than othrs for MDB.  He was a little serious for the new reader.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 21:25 | Link to Comment slyhill
slyhill's picture

Unfortunately, it may be more insidious than sarcasm. Disinformation for hire, perhaps?

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 22:12 | Link to Comment Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

They're my thoughts. I believe that he writes this drivel in the vein of preposterous hyperbole. He never seems to reply to questions about the rectitude of his posts. Therefore the only conclusion is that he is a troll or one of the most myopic dolts to visit these pages. His postings are triteness wrapped in a cloak of deceit and have been refuted by others and yet he continues. Stubborn to the core, blinded by the light. As an unanswered enigma, entertaining comic or insideous troll? ; he only leaves his postings open to question and taken with a grain of salt.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 22:45 | Link to Comment LongBalls
LongBalls's picture

I agree. I feel MDB is dangerous. If he indeed intends to lead with sarcasm that is fine. But there are newbies that are trying to part through the BS. He has never validated the sarcasm belief. Therefore, untill he claims otherwise we must take him at his written word.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 22:53 | Link to Comment Fedophile
Fedophile's picture

The noobs will just have to put their critical thinking caps on and come to their own conclusion over time.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 00:52 | Link to Comment dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

one person's noob is another's sophisticated investor

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 01:10 | Link to Comment Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

Dangerous?  WTF?

The desire to silence others is what's dangerous.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 05:12 | Link to Comment Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

I don't believe anyone has suggested that. WTF are you on about?

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 09:00 | Link to Comment Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

My reply was to LB's post.

To directly answer your question, I take issue with characterizing someone as "dangerous" because he espouses ideas that are un-(fill in the blank) to a self-appointed judge.  That type of BS is how we've allowed the PC crowd to mire us in concepts like "hate speech."

We have come way too far from the mindset of "I may disagree with what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it." 

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 21:51 | Link to Comment BidnessMan
BidnessMan's picture

With fiat currency creation going to infinity, why would there ever be a final down leg back to a mean barely above pre-bubble prices?  This chart must assume stable money, which is definitely not what the future holds.  

In any case, this is not about bubbles.  The value of PMs is not going up.  The value of the dollar is going down. From $35 in 1971 to $1775 - the dollar is down 98%.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 07:51 | Link to Comment BlackVoid
BlackVoid's picture

Intitutional investors are just starting to notice.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 03:33 | Link to Comment Dead Canary
Dead Canary's picture

"Either that or they (like MDB) own Berkshire stock."

Uh, people that live in their mothers basements don't own stock.  DUH!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:22 | Link to Comment perelmanfan
perelmanfan's picture

MDB may well have a point. All fiat currencies go to zero. Gold and silver as stores of value go up to infinity in terms of the old fiat. But neither journey is without its bumps. I suspect a big bump is coming. 

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:47 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Too funny.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:48 | Link to Comment spankthebernank
spankthebernank's picture

You're describing aapl to a tee major douche bag. Well done!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:50 | Link to Comment LynRobison
LynRobison's picture

Hey MDB, what analysis did you use to arrive at a fair value for silver at $5?

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:01 | Link to Comment MillionDollarBonus_
MillionDollarBonus_'s picture

 

I didn't say fair value was at $5. This would simply be a common sense entry point for professional arbitrageurs seeking fair value at four times mining costs. This is currently around $18.

 

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:18 | Link to Comment TN Jed
TN Jed's picture

Scintillating silver sees common sense consensus commencing senseless common cents. 

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:31 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

easy for you to say!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:57 | Link to Comment TN Jed
TN Jed's picture

4:21 Aspergers does it every time

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:22 | Link to Comment LynRobison
LynRobison's picture

So, the only value that silver has is the cost to dig it out of the ground?!?

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:27 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Yes, because the Ricardian Labour Theory of Value is not full of fallacies.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:35 | Link to Comment LynRobison
LynRobison's picture

Well said! Big dollar-believers like MDB use a common tactic -- they begin their logic with an assumption that gold and silver are only worth some ridiculously low amount. Then, based on that assumption, they come to some ridiculous conclusion. When you ask them to explain the analysis behind their initial assumption, they never can. 

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:40 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

MDB is just a troll. The true crime is that Keynes himself built his entire flawed theory up around the Ricardian Labour Theory of Value.

His "work" is entirely full of holes, but conveniently written in an almost decipherable way. Hardcore socialism doesn't want you to understand its true principle.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 20:00 | Link to Comment LynRobison
LynRobison's picture

You sound like you could be one of those "self-righteous libertarians" that MDB mentioned. Don't those pesky libertarians realize that they are best ruled by their superiors in finance and politics? Why don't those libertarians consent to being ruled and told what to do and think like everybody else? Are those libertarians all so self-righteous that they actually believe they can be self-reliant and independent and free? How impertinent of them!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 20:03 | Link to Comment Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

See, MDB. That's sarcasm without the need for the <sarc> button.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 20:48 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Unbelievably, central planner who disagree with libertarian principles like to brand them with the 'fascist' label, despite the obvious irony.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 20:22 | Link to Comment A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

Ricardo aside, I have trouble assimilating the economic postulations of a man (JMK) whose entire argument is the ultimate liquidation...death.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 21:42 | Link to Comment Chaffinch
Chaffinch's picture

Multiplied by four, apparently ; )

Pay attention!

(sarcasm)

(Just in case anyone thinks I'm agreeing with this loony/ master of wit)

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:30 | Link to Comment GubbermintWorker
GubbermintWorker's picture

So, you're saying that since my DCA is $15, I don't have to lose sleep over it? Heh.

 

You already got yours, right?

 

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 21:49 | Link to Comment Chaffinch
Chaffinch's picture

Now you are clearly paying attention!

I reckon you only have to worry if the alleged cost of digging it out of the ground (not really relevant to anything since most mines which produce silver produce it as a by-product, but let's play along with MDB on this one!) drops to $3.75 or lower.

Maybe you should worry if the minimum wage drops. Or maybe you should worry because in some of the mines which produce silver as a by-product there is no minimum wage. I'm a bit fuzzy on the detail, but if in doubt, worry.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:52 | Link to Comment zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

"common sense" - well their you have it - what is completely missing since the beginning of 2000 is common sense in regards to world economics. We have gone down the tracks like a run away train - the engine has been able to maintain control of the attached and following cars so far but a lot of turmoil has been seen on the journey and the light at the end of the tunnel is not daylight but an on coming train.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 21:20 | Link to Comment economics1996
economics1996's picture

But cost plus pricing is very rare.  Supply and DEMAND are how prices are made up.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 22:19 | Link to Comment prole
prole's picture

Isn't AG more of a roller-coaster ride than just that?

Going from 1.30 to 50 back to 5 back to 50 down below 30 up to 37....

And  tomorrow?

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:55 | Link to Comment GubbermintWorker
GubbermintWorker's picture

Guess what MDB? Who cares? I've made enough trading in and out of SLV, that even if it goes to zero, I'll still have an amount in physical that well, leaves me very happy indeed! ...ROTFLMAO!!!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:57 | Link to Comment dogbreath
dogbreath's picture

its confirmed you are a troll but none the less you are 400+% to low for the number you use as the end of the linear uptrend.  5 dollar silver will be remembered as the days of free silver

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:59 | Link to Comment slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

MDB, whether you ackowledge it or not, you are just as important here as Tyler at this point.  

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:38 | Link to Comment luna_man
luna_man's picture

 

 

"slaughterer"

The pressure of something is getting to you.

For some, taking a long vacation works best.

 

DELIRIOUS!!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 22:25 | Link to Comment prole
prole's picture

Sometimes I wonder if the Mathmans' and the MDbs aren't td HIS self just to give some counter-point else we would just agree 100% on everything here?

FRNs are a ponzi.

We escape the ponzi trap with pm. Sheeple are just rabbits and beyond redemption

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 02:48 | Link to Comment Calmyourself
Calmyourself's picture

Exactly, he is a creation..  I when more noobie than now not that I've graduated would have read MDB a few times and dug in and deciphered it.  The new noobs will have to do the same..

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 22:48 | Link to Comment Think for yourself
Think for yourself's picture

recognized, nearly. Important, not by orders of magnitude.

Now, it is not my intention to demean MDB, but rather simply to tone down your hyperbole. MDB's skill and persistence at crafting these official-sounding newspeak nuggets bring an invaluable discussion from which most will take something home, and in which many will test their rhetorical mettle against statelike twisted logic and propaganda.  

However, MDB's contrarian and contrived sarcasm/trolling style is neither original nor uniquely insightful; the ease with which his sarcasm is constantly destroyed by many of the fight club regulars demonstrates that the topics he discusses are already mastered areas of knowledge; he does not usually foster threads of original inquiry but rather forces people to restate previous understandings. This is useful for newcomers to grasp the all-around memetic content of the club but is not irreplaceable - I'm sure that many other people here have a similar grasp on things which would be sufficient to take a similar contrarian take. (I do not imply I'm one of those, it is quite common for me to take something home from the subthreads he generates)

Again, what makes MDB unique is his skill, persistence and consistency at applying contrarian newspeak to various ideological positions. 

 

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:55 | Link to Comment NakedSwanTrading
NakedSwanTrading's picture

SLV : Parabolic Bullish Bias in effect, $50.50 initial objective. Silver equities to follow.

 

older article

http://www.scribd.com/doc/81117854/Naked-Swan-Trading-AUG-21-2011-Silver-Equities-Outlook-for-2012

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 20:45 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Hey Multi-Delusional Bonehead, when you gonna say gasoline is a bubble?

Average February Gas Price At All Time High; Follows Record January Gasoline Costs

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 23:34 | Link to Comment WryObserver
WryObserver's picture

First, what do libertarians have to do with anything?

Second, the bubble is a bubble of created dollars and euros. Is the supply of dollars and euros expanding or contracting?

Third, gold and silver aren't just commodities, they are money.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 01:30 | Link to Comment Chupacabra
Chupacabra's picture

Fake MDB.  You are a pale imitation of the original, loser.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 04:40 | Link to Comment EmileLargo
EmileLargo's picture

All this assumes of course that a Dollar in 2000 (when Silver was $5 an ounce) is the same as a $ today. Were that to be the case, getting out of silver would be a no brainer.

But consider the prices of a large variety of raw materials and their prices since 2000 and silver does not look so expensive any more. How has silver done compared to oil, for instance? Back in the late 90s, oil was $10 a barrel promting the venerable Economist to say that the world was drwoning in the stuff. It is now at $120. raging sell? We'll find out.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:01 | Link to Comment BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

We're ALL bitchez!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:25 | Link to Comment rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

Mondo Cane

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:03 | Link to Comment SilverRhino
SilverRhino's picture

Argentum Caniculae!!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:12 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Hi Ho Silver - away!

(Lone Ranger and Ace Ventura)

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:45 | Link to Comment Chupacabra-322
Chupacabra-322's picture

Declaration of War on the United States Government.

We don't want to destroy government. We want to fix it.

TRANSCRIPT
____________

To the Citizens of the United States and the United States Government.
We are Anonymous.

In the past few months, our collective has been organizing the operation known as Operation Blackout. Part of the operation's purpose was to alert the people of the coming bill that was to be called the Stop Online Piracy Act.

This Act would give Congress the power to censor any internet website they wish without consent from the Citizens of the United States. This act would've also had the power to jail any person who infringed on its new copyright law for an equivalence of five years. This copyright law would've had the power to destroy social networking sites such as Facebook and YouTube. Video gameplay and free movies would cease to exist.

However, Operation Blackout was a success. As a collective, we've managed to spread the word and alert the masses. Internet giants such as Google, Wikipedia, and Reddit became hand-in-hand with us as we all managed to make an impact on the decisions of our, "free government". But as we've seen with Megaupload, the government may not need a bill to be passed to get their way. Other operations we've conducted over this time period have awaken the people to the nightmare that is the United States Government. Sections 1031 and 1032 of the National Defense Authorization Act have been ratified. Yet we face new threats.

The United States Government is seeking to pass the Cyber Security Act of 2012. This act is as Orwellian as it sounds; it will endanger our collective and we will not stand by and watch while this government of lies prepares to take away our freedoms. The National Security Agency insists on labeling us as a leaderless, terrorist organization. The question is, "who do we terrorize?". Can it possibly be that the United States government is truly scared of us? Nevertheless, The time for action is now.

Our collective has realized, along with many United States citizens, that the current government is no longer functional. Our economy is unstable, our representatives uncooperative, and our system, destroyed.

We are not calling upon the collective to deface or use a distributed denial of service attack on a United States government agency website or affiliate. We are not calling upon the people to occupy a city or protest in front of a local building. This has not brought on us any legislative change or alternate law. It has only brought us bloodshed and false criticism. For the last 12 years, voting was useless. Corporations and lobbyists are the true leaders of this country and are the ones with the power to control our lives. To rebuild our government, we must first destroy it.

Our time for democracy is here.
Our time for real change is here.
This is America's time, to have its own revolution.

Therefore, Anonymous has decided to openly declare war on the United States government. This is a call to arms. We call upon the Citizens of the United States to stand beside us in overthrowing this corrupted body and call upon a new era. Our allegiance is to the American people, because they are us, and we are them.

Operation V, engaged.

We are Anonymous.
We are Americans.
We never Forgive.
We never Forget.
To the United States government, it's too late to expect us.

REVOLUTION is here.
twitter.com/theanonmessage

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jAaCZWQndqA&feature=player_embedded

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:52 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Gee, yet another false-flag attack on government that only provides them with a casus belli. What a surprise.

Internet kill switch test in 5... 4... 3...

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 02:12 | Link to Comment Chupacabra
Chupacabra's picture

I hope Anon has the minerals.  I'm counting on the nerds and the military (not always mutually exclusive) in the next (r)evolution. +1

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 23:30 | Link to Comment destroyer of mo...
destroyer of moonbats's picture

where's krugman??

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 17:56 | Link to Comment JPM Hater001
JPM Hater001's picture

Yes I know...I have been reporting on it all day long.

Go Silver!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:14 | Link to Comment SaMsKy
Tue, 02/28/2012 - 17:57 | Link to Comment TruthInSunshine
TruthInSunshine's picture

The Joe Wiesenthal equivalent title would be:

 

 

Stocks explode higher in Teflon Market!

Silver ebbs up ever so slightly

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:04 | Link to Comment uno
uno's picture

Wiesenthal translates to "the Uber Weasel"

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:02 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Who cares what that sleazebag thinks. All he cares about is clicks. His bonus depends on it.

Just realize "clicks" and "dicks" look quite similar when you're further from the monitor. Both work, when it comes to Weaselthal. The guy is a complete man-whore.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 17:57 | Link to Comment GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

Started buying Ag around $5/oz. 

I sleep very well at night... and I've been unemployed for almost a year -lol

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:16 | Link to Comment Richard Head
Richard Head's picture

I just dig it out of the ground myself for that price.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:22 | Link to Comment redpill
redpill's picture

But you must be starving since you can't eat it

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 21:07 | Link to Comment sitenine
sitenine's picture

+1

I'm getting so ridiculously fed up with all the "you can't eat it" remarks from the fiat hording sheople out there.  What fucking idiot would want to eat his store of wealth?  The purpose of storing wealth is so that you can afford to buy food when you need it.  How did we ever let that stupid meme perpetuate? - damned trolls.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 02:14 | Link to Comment Chupacabra
Chupacabra's picture

Recognize sarcasm, friend.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 15:25 | Link to Comment sitenine
sitenine's picture

Recognize that I said "+1", and then went on with my own rant, friend.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 02:13 | Link to Comment Chupacabra
Chupacabra's picture

$4.65 here, you beautiful bastard!  It's nice, eh?  I only did 1400 oz though.  :(  Still nice.  :)  Until that boating accident . . . dammit.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:01 | Link to Comment OneEyedJack
OneEyedJack's picture

:)

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:06 | Link to Comment boattrash
boattrash's picture

Didn't hear much about it from the MSM Talking Heads. If it had been a stock increase like that, they would've jizzed on themselves, right there on camera.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:30 | Link to Comment The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

I like it best that way. Wouldn't want any of the idiots on CNBC pushing AG, that would practically be a death knell. Of course, they would be playing the bull run with SLV.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:56 | Link to Comment NotApplicable
NotApplicable's picture

Oh, I fully expect them to do this... the very day before SLV implodes from the circular logic of holding "physical" in the form of worthless Comex paper.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:03 | Link to Comment tmosley
tmosley's picture

All the canaries are dead, now we'll never know when we are in danger!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:21 | Link to Comment EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Don't worry, the government will tell you when.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:04 | Link to Comment RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

Will be interesting to see how fast gold and silver catch up with:

 

- Mattress stocks like SCSS, TPX

- Restaurant stocks like BWLD

- Specialty retail stocks like NKE, UA

- Shopping mall REITS like SPG

- Big cap techs like AAPL, IBM

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:08 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Eight of the eight thousand+ stocks listed on exchanges that, taking you at your word, beat PMs.  What are the odds you are holding only...er...any of those eight?

As I say when I talk to folks who frequent casinos...just tell me how many chips you walk out with.

 

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:33 | Link to Comment kindape
kindape's picture

im sure its MANY more than 8. But your point is well taken.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:59 | Link to Comment jomama
jomama's picture

i needed a great belly laugh today.  thank you, sir! :D

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:27 | Link to Comment rosiescenario
rosiescenario's picture

what, no LULU???

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:40 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

Hey, Sacrilege !

When you introduce your new Gold / Silver / Copper rankings for ZHers, could you add one more grade called 'Paper'?

I have a good candidate for this honor.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:40 | Link to Comment Silverhog
Silverhog's picture

I drive to Florida for vacation every month of February since 1995 from New England, 1450 miles one way. I return on school vacation week and the history of traffic is legendary. This trip was creepy. No traffic, serious, only one car in front of me for miles sometimes including NJ turnpike in daylight hours. I am 59 years old and never seen Interstate 95 so dead. Let me tell you, if things are getting better, its not from folks driving somewhere. 

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 22:46 | Link to Comment benb
benb's picture

Thanks for the observation. This is real economic reporting as opposed to...

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 00:13 | Link to Comment StychoKiller
StychoKiller's picture

Perhaps all the students are gettin' their Grope on at the airports, instead...

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 20:05 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

- Shopping mall REITS like SPG

Boy, you really are a tard.

Shopping malls?   They're all empty or soon wil be.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 23:23 | Link to Comment UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

....until they're relabelled "FEMA overflow centers".....

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 22:19 | Link to Comment Al Gorerhythm
Al Gorerhythm's picture

On how much volume and at what level of counterfeiting?

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:04 | Link to Comment Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Meanwhile, the HFT computer-bots are heard saying, "Hi Ho Silver! And away...toward S&P 1400!"

And tonight there is a reality teevee show on. Or two of them. Or a hundred of them.

And sports will be played and viewed by millions.

Until the detonations - of the mass-killing kind - occur, nothing else will matter.

Your reality - my reality - is not everybody else's reality. ZeroHedge is a fascinating place to visit, but not many people in the grand scheme of things want to live here.

They get their "hard" news from the same media outlets where from they receive the latest on Billy Crystal's performance hosting the Oscars, and the fallout from NASCAR's "biggest" night.

Bread was a great group, but circuses are even more entertaining.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:15 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Mia culpa, TP: I posted "hi ho silver" above at 17:12 - hadn't seen your reference.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:19 | Link to Comment Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

No worries, mate!

I haven't gotten around to copywriting the prhase yet. Too busy searching for porn. LOL

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:50 | Link to Comment henry
henry's picture

Yo not Ho

  Hi Ho is the 7 Dwarfs...

 

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:01 | Link to Comment Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

Nit, meet pick.

Sorry.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 20:17 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

Hi Ho is the 7 Dwarfs...

 

Wrong. 

"Hi Ho Silver" is the Lone Ranger

"Heigh Ho Heigh Ho, It's Home From Work We Go" is the Seven Dwarfs

Look it up.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 00:26 | Link to Comment Hi Ho Silver
Hi Ho Silver's picture

 

"Look it up."

 

According to wiki both Hi Ho and Hi-Yo relate to the Lone Ranger.

 

High hoe is something altogether different.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:07 | Link to Comment LowProfile
LowProfile's picture

AAPL deflated by SILVER

http://stockcharts.com/h-sc/ui?s=AAPL:$SILVER&p=D&yr=3&mn=0&dy=0&id=p26656689861

Looks like a ginormo double top...

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:10 | Link to Comment chinaboy
chinaboy's picture

Thanks a lot, Ben!

But then I'm welcome because who knows, may be you made more money out of all ths.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:24 | Link to Comment DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

 

"Fantasyland"...until THE FEVER sets in.

 Fantasyland is a great place to live...until it isn't.

We are living in the past and have obviously been paying for it with our futures. Municipalities, counties and states in the U.S. are as hopelessly insolvent as is Greece, the peripheral sovereigns and thus the core. This is fact, not conjecture and has led to investors backing away from new purchases of sovereign debt globally. But not to fear, we can continue "business as usual" because the central banks have stepped in to buy any and all newly auctioned paper. Here in the U.S.S.A., even using the Fed's own data, they are purchasing 91% of long term Treasury debt and 58% of all maturities. If you include the very probable "hidden purchases" funded through offshore accounts and various propped hedge funds the number in reality is close to 80%.

The current "successful" global economy is akin to a parent writing a check to purchase every box of cookies that their little girl scout has to sell. Better yet, this is like a little kid with a lemonade stand that buys his own lemonade, pays for it with "IOU's" to himself and then comes in for dinner telling his parents how successful his business is and the "growth" is simply amazing. Of course there is a minor problem, reality! The time will come when this little kid is at the store and needs more lemons, sugar and the natural spring water but his IOU's won't spend. In other words, reality hits.

This is what the entire global financial system is faced with, the reality of reality.

The reality is, that because the money is false, everything is false.

Nothing can be priced properly ...as the official sector wishes... as some things are way overvalued while others are undervalued. In economic terms, NOTHING is being allowed to clear the market. Paper assets are not being allowed to fall and neither is real estate ...collateral for the paper... while real and daily use products have been sat on by the sale of futures contracts, convenient number fudging and just plain lies. However, "reality", no matter how long postponed will always raise its ugly head.

Consumers are stretched and bankrupting globally, banks are levered 30-1, falsifying collateral values and also bankrupt. Sovereign countries by any standard based in reality are already bankrupt and following policies that will only assure that they become "more bankrupt" ...if that is possible. The point is that the ONLY thing that now remains is when. When does the true reality set in?

When do people listen to the little boy point his finger and call the bare assed King...well, naked? Everyone knows ...at least subliminally... that everything is broke. Everyone knows that everyone knows that everything is broke. It is just too obvious but will continue until.

Well, when reality sets in. Reality in this case cannot and will not set in until there is a cash call of paper contracts on the underlying ...non existent... physical metals, Gold and Silver. That's right, QE to infinity is designed to cover up and hide anything and everything real ...read...bad.

The only thing that QE to infinity cannot do is refine more physical metal ...wheat, corn, lumber, oil, gasoline etc.

QE to infinity can and has interfered with prices and in some cases actually tightened supply by lowering incentives ...prices... to produce. QE has also led to increased demand as even slow and late to the draw hedge funds have started to figure this out.

It is ironic, QE, which was designed to cover up the black holes in the financial system is exactly what is creating the increased demand, allowing the supply/price suppressing tactics that will blow the lid off of the entire Ponzi scheme.

It is so hilarious that the only assets on the planet that are supposedly not manipulated are Gold and Silver.

How is that 4 year CFTC investigation into Silver going?

The motives to manipulate the Gold price ...retard the price... are THE strongest of any asset on the planet because it is the direct competitor to the Dollar. Yet we hear of interventions of everything and are told that Gold is sacrosanct?

 What will finally spook the sheeple?

A sovereign bankruptcy? Failed auction? Derivatives blow up? Stock market panic?

THE event will proceed upon a failure to deliver! Someone, somewhere ... MF Global already happened... will pay for Gold ...more likely Silver?... and...not receive it. Plain and simple, the bottom of the barrel will arrive. As the old saying goes, "there is no fever like Gold fever".

There is no fever like Gold fever CAUSED by no inventory and faked paper receipts for same.

So, it is fantasyland until it it isn't, then Gold Fever will take over unlike any financial rampage in all of history!

www.lemetropolecafe.com

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:34 | Link to Comment The Shootist
The Shootist's picture

Good post.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:16 | Link to Comment DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

 

Counting ounces, THE most important concept of all!

 Is that a bell ringing?

Break down the fundamental realities. The HUI index has been coiled and compressed till  now which is potentially a very explosive mode. Technicals are always explained by the fundamentals after the fact. This time will be no different no matter how many hedge funds sell naked short or the official sector plays games to depress Gold and Silver prices. Water will seek it's own level!  True values will be recognized as Mother Nature cannot be denied forever.

Central banks across the globe absolutely 100% MUST create more liquidity to cover up the global insolvency. This will not and cannot work forever but it can and already has postponed the final day of reckoning in bankruptcy court. As these central banks try to postpone reality, they are making their existing currencies worth less and less with each printing.

Real money, Gold, on the other hand can only become more plentiful over time as each ton of ore is dug up, crushed, leached, heated into dore and then refined into ounces. THIS is what mining companies do, not to mention what is done beforehand to map, scratch the surface and drill to find out where to start digging. 

Mining companies are the real central banks because their product IS real money... as opposed to that which is simply printed or digitized.

Understand this concept, that mining companies ARE the true central banks to a real monetary system with a real currency, then you will understand.

If you own mining shares, you will be a charter member of the next banking system.

Here is a very simple question. 100 years ago, would you have liked to be one of the founding partners who owned and controlled the Federal Reserve? How fabulously wealthy could you have become? How many future generations of your kin could you have provided for? THIS, is exactly where we are now in the monetary system. The system will, MUST be changed. You have the opportunity to become a charter member of this new system!

As to the fundamentals of why the shares are the buy of a lifetime. First, the shares have only traded this cheaply in relation to Gold twice in the last 10+ years. All of the obvious signs are now in place that what is now considered money is dying. Money in todays form is backed by debt. This debt without question is pure and simply bad. There is too much of it. The quality is laughable. The global banking system is upside down as is real estate the collateral on a global basis.

While the debt was being created, to juice the system even further, over $1 Quadrillion of derivatives have been created. The catalyst for the coming monetary death can come from any direction at any time. A daisy chain of banking failures, sovereign credit failures, failed auctions, central bank dishoarding of U.S. Treasuries, an oil shock caused by a war, fraud that cannot be hidden any longer, or a natural or man made disaster to name but just a few. Or...we could wake up one day and there be no bids for anything...anywhere...for no apparent reason.

The bottom line is that the charts are saying that the time is ripe for SOMETHING to happen in a big way.

The charts of the HUI and the chart of the HUI relative to Gold are screaming buy and for good reason.

Major mining companies are trading like Gold is $900-1,000 per ounce, exploration companies are trading as if Gold were $300-400 per ounce!

The near future will be all about counting ounces, the cheapest ounces on the planet are those that are still in the ground and owned by mining...primarily exploration... companies. Understand the concept that Gold, can in Dollar terms, literally go to infinity then you are half way there. The rest of the way there requires that you understand that buying an exploration company with  proven ounces in the ground can work out to buying ...controlling ounces of Gold at $30 per ounce or even less!

 For your same Dollar today, you can control 50 times the amount of present above ground ounces in hand, and this does not even take into consideration that the mining company will continue to explore and probably find even more mineable Gold!  

Is this it timewise?  The market will tell and the charts are saying that right now is a very likely point in time. Of course, we can go through yet another cycle where the shares move up and fail to break out only to set up again exactly where we are now. Fundamentally, once the shares do break out, massive amounts of money will flood into a pathetically small market capped industry no matter what Warren Buffett says or what the planners want you think.

 Maybe today isn't "the day, week or month, it really doesn't matter because it is coming. It being the process of counting ounces and calculating your net worth by how many ounces you own and control. If anything the concept of counting ounces under your control, ranks as THE most important concept of all!

www.lemetropolecafe.com

..................................................................................

 

Pretium Resources to trade at $507 within 3 – 5 Years

 

-- Hole SU-260 --1.6 feet averaging 517.7

ounces gold and 226.9 ounces of silver per ton;

-- Hole SU-249 - 1.6 feet averaging 113.2

ounces gold and 50.9 ounces silver per ton);

-- Hole SU-239 -3.3 feet averaging 100.9

ounces gold and 44.2 ounces silver per ton.

http://www.pretivm.com/

 

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:46 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I hate to disagree with your direction, but at mimimum, I PAUSE with your conclusion...

"MINING SHARES" are paper... You own NOTHING unless you own physical... Even if you do, you have to defend it (& so even if you're mine owner, you're in the crosshairs of people who will stop at nothing to take over what you have... as for 'paper shareholders' of that... pffffffft!)...

Own physical...

 

 

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 20:30 | Link to Comment DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

 

Pour chaque opinion leur propre!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 21:14 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

c'est bon... Vous êtes d'accord? Vous pensez qu'il y a une vrai différence?

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 21:34 | Link to Comment DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Partager les bénéfices miniers acheter mon lingots.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 01:04 | Link to Comment ruffles
ruffles's picture

I think you both have good points.

Physical coins in your hand are the only 'true' ownership, in my opinion.

Yet, lets say mining shares did end up going parabolic after major events do occur (which I think is pretty much inevitable). What are the chances that the paper market itself would be denounced en masse, before mining shares attract major attention? Would people or institutions simultaneously realize "hey... these stocks are just bits of paper!" and cause an exodus, annihilating stock prices?

Mining shares are just bits of paper, yes. But that doesn't mean there isn't profit to be made there. Never underestimate the power of collective greed and insanity to maintain the illusion of stocks being "more than just paper". Methinks that could be a costly mistake.

Then again, The Matrix, while a complete illusion, could also kill the user.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 20:21 | Link to Comment oddjob
oddjob's picture

Brucejack is an amazing property.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 20:39 | Link to Comment DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Un possible pactole!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 21:00 | Link to Comment oddjob
oddjob's picture

mais oui.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 21:30 | Link to Comment Thisson
Thisson's picture

Mines can be nationalized at any time.  If the price of gold explodes to "infinity" it will be a national and international monetary crisis and emergency, and not at all surprising if mining resources are seized by the government using eminent domain.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 21:53 | Link to Comment DavidPierre
DavidPierre's picture

Very true! 

It all depends on being in safer jurisdictions (ie:Canada) and keeping your eyes and ears open.  Till then, don't let a Mad Max mind set blind any investment decisions.

PM shares are for the nimble and well informed.

Do your DD and always be ready to bolt when you smell a predator's scent in the wind.

That is nothing new to traders who thrive.

There's GOLD in them there BC mountains.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 21:37 | Link to Comment Thomas Jefferson
Thomas Jefferson's picture

In Bob Quartermain we trust.  I already have a double off the IPO.  Thanks Bob.

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 03:52 | Link to Comment UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

I prefer Alan Quartermain.

 

The way he got to King Solomon's mine by travelling through the fertile plains to the breasts of Sheba, without getting eaten by the cannibals, well, that was cool.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:12 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

Let's normalize for volume and see how many real investors are moving equities compared with bullion.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:11 | Link to Comment non_anon
non_anon's picture

time for JPM to enter the market

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:13 | Link to Comment mayhem_korner
mayhem_korner's picture

 

 

I like time for JPM to exit the market better

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:41 | Link to Comment SILVERGEDDON
SILVERGEDDON's picture

Paper sucks, you Wall Street fucks! I'll see you vampires in the sun, with my loaded silver gun. Yer goin' down in flames, from Lower Manhattan to the Thames. Your paper is I know not where, I'd rather shit my underwear! For, be there bull, or be there bear, silver is the suit I wear! (With gratitude, and apologies to Dr. Seuss.)

The only paper I own is the stuff I wipe my ass with. Market paper is worthless, because I cannot do a good job of wiping my ass with it. Gold was worth $28.00 an ounce when I was a kid. Silver was worth whatever was printed on the coin you spent. Any one think those days are coming back? All of the lying bum fucking aristocracy of the Age Of Paper Power can burn in their paper suits soonest. I won't even bother pissing on them to put out the flames. I collect gold, silver, lead, copper, real dry powder, food, tools, diesel fuel, and other useful commodities. There is a community of folks all doing the same, so skill sets and extra eyes and hands can guard each others sixes, and "break on through to the other side, break on through to the other side, YEAH "

Thank BIG BUSINESS for lobbying for the opportunity to run the baseball bat up the collective asses of the "American People" every politician talks about. Politicians are wannabe businessmen - but with no talent, and no capital, and no work ethic. They are what they are. Might's well get pissed at the raccoon that raids your trash cans. He is just doing what evolution gave him a job to do. Corporate World Co is your friend - NOT ! They run the show - every one else is cannon fodder at best, or a problem to be eradicated immediately at worst. The new religion of the millennia. Be careful, or you will be branded as a witch and burned at the stake. Actually, if you read or comment on this website, you are already doomed, 'cause the fluoride in your water, drugs and pesticides in your food, and poison in the air have not yet eliminated free will, or cognitive thinking, the ANTICHRIST of corporate religion.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:45 | Link to Comment jomama
jomama's picture

hey, those 200oz. i bought back in oct are almost back to what i paid for them... around 40/oz...  yay?

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:39 | Link to Comment HeNateMe
HeNateMe's picture

Patience is a virtue.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 21:00 | Link to Comment non_anon
non_anon's picture

yep, I bought a little more than that in 2004 at 8-10 dollars spot. Make sure to take delivery and not hold onto paper promises.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 21:33 | Link to Comment Thisson
Thisson's picture

I bought at $18.  I'm not liking that it's starting to get tarnished up.  With this experience, I prefer gold.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 22:41 | Link to Comment Prometheus418
Prometheus418's picture

I hadn't seen this mentioned here before, and I guess I figured that anyone investing in silver knew enough about it to know how to store and protect it.

But, if you're seeing this, there must be others with similar experiences, and it's probably worthwhile to address the issue.

Yes, silver tarnishes- and it's your responsibility to prevent that during storage, if you are concerned about it (which, IMO, you should be.)  The basic plastic flips that coin shops and bullion dealers give you your coins in are only adequate for keeping them from getting dinged up.

How you protect them is going to depend on how much you purchase at one time, how much you intend to liquidate at one time, and how much time you want to spend repackaging coins.

The first thing is to wear gloves or use a towel when you're handling the coins.  The oil from your hands is the first thing that starts the tarnishing.  Next is to protect them from air.

If you're buying 20+ oz at a time, your best bet is probably to buy plastic tubes with screw-on lids.  Each tube holds 20oz, and does the same job as anything else available.  

For my general strategy (10-20 oz a month,) air-tite holders are a nice choice.  I get the ones with black foam rings for ASEs, and direct fit capsules for Peace and Morgan silver dollars.  No reason for this beyond personal preference.  Be aware that air-tites are coin specific, so if you have something like Philharmonics, you'll need a different size- they have charts that you can use to find out what size you need.  I store halves and quarters in 2x2 mylar holders- you've seen them, I'm sure.  They're the cardboard ones that you fold over and staple closed.  I keep Mercury dimes in 50-coin plastic tubes for easy access, in the expectation that a silver dime is the most useable unit of coinage for small everyday purchases.

For the most part, 90% silver is already tarnished, worn, or otherwise dinged up, so putting it in an air-tite is probably overkill.  I only do it with dollars, because they have such a high premium relative to the other 90% coins, and seem the most likely to retain some level of consistant demand far past this current market as numismatic coins.  I don't know how to judge that part of the business, but I figure that since I have them, I may as well protect them for the coin geeks.

Protection is a decent part of the investment, as far as I am concerned- there are bound to be plenty of people who simply purchase bullion and then do silly things like wrap the coins in newspaper and bury them, or stack them in metal coffee cans.  If you've got coins in mint condition, and your neighbor has black coins that are all dented up, yours will be worth more- all other things being equal.  Nobody pays a premium for something that looks like it has been abused.

If you buy the holders at a coin shop, they're about $2-3 each, but you can get them direct here for $.55-  http://www.airtiteholders.com/.  They also have a number of different display options, if you're so inclined.  I like the plastic boxes that hold 20 1-Oz coins upright in airtites mounted in cards.  They're small enough to stash in assorted places easily, or they have little "feet" on the bottom that match up with recesses on the tops, if you want to stack them in a safe.  It costs about $12 to load 20 ASEs into one of these, and it looks nice.  $12 just isn't that much to protect $800 at today's markey value- I'd be willing to bet your wallet cost more than that, and holds less paper at any given moment.  

As far as the gold goes- no, it doesn't tarnish.  But I would still put it in holders, to prevent wear or dents.  It's a soft metal.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 23:27 | Link to Comment AgShaman
AgShaman's picture

Waste of time.

Unless you're stacking 'proofs' or numismatics....silver can be handled, fondled, licked, rubbed, and groped to your hearts content. A little silversmiths' polish or some toothpaste/toothbrush warm water....or baking soda works fine for clearing out tarnish.

Tarnish is not the bogeyman....it comes with the territory.

As the 1% that was way ahead of the herd by a decade....you should feel comfortable in explaining this to the noobs that are the johnny-come-lately's.

When this bull really starts to run....only 'Dorks' will be concerned with tarnished silver.

Movin' along

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 01:00 | Link to Comment dark pools of soros
dark pools of soros's picture

the tubes that come with rolls of coins works well.. and if you get bars and keep them stacked, they are fine too..  it is usually the loose boxes of riff raff that seem to tarnish the fastest.. must be all that air flow in the messy pile or something

Wed, 02/29/2012 - 03:54 | Link to Comment UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

I don't know if cold water tarnishes quicker than warm, but the loose pile on the bottom of Superior may be a little dark by now.

Damn canoes....

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:45 | Link to Comment Cult of Criminality
Cult of Criminality's picture

Is mdb................. methman/mothman/mathman ?

They seem to have a lot in common.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:45 | Link to Comment americanspirit
americanspirit's picture

Sorry, Silver is not exploding yet. It is having a pretty good short term move up after a pretty bad short term move down. The fuse will not have even begun to burn on an explosion until Silver reaches $60-$70, and when it passes $100 the fuse will be getting short, but still no explosion until $150. Then boom.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:55 | Link to Comment JohnKozac
JohnKozac's picture

"Flight to safety in Hard Assets..."

 

Murray Rothbard (paraphrased)

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:56 | Link to Comment junkyardjack
junkyardjack's picture

Nothing a margin hike can't fix

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:28 | Link to Comment Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Sure, scare all the paper traders into bullion, that'll do wonders for the Fiat Ponzi's ability to leverage the dollar over hard assets.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 20:38 | Link to Comment CH1
CH1's picture

100% margins, please!

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 18:57 | Link to Comment Ponzified Plebe
Ponzified Plebe's picture

Living in SoCal, I used to make trips down to Baja to surf several times a year, until the drug wars made that too risky. Now I wish I had a time machine to go back to all those street vendors who were hawking "Real silber, 925, special deal for you" and loaded up when an oz was $4, with the exchange rate on the peso I could've been stacked to the gills on a few thousand bucks. But alas, I was clueless to PM's in those days when the most I worried about was whether there were good swells rolling in, and we could bribe land owners on some of the choice breaks to rent out spots to camp on.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:09 | Link to Comment RobotTrader
RobotTrader's picture

You think you have it bad....

From 1991 - 1997 I was totally obsessed with windsurfing in Maui and San Carlos down in Baja, I didn't even pay attention to stocks or anything.  Spent every nickle I had on travel.  Missed one of the greatest stock bull markets ever, my IRA accounts were in mostly cash during that time.

I have taught all my nieces and nephews not to make the same mistake, have told them to contribute to their IRA's every year into a Vanguard ETF like SPY every year come hell or high water.

I could have retired 15 years earlier if I had been fully invested in stocks, even after the 2002 and 2008 wipeouts.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:21 | Link to Comment GrinandBearit
GrinandBearit's picture

You could have retired 15 years earlier? -lol  Dude, you're full of it.  Stop lying and go back to your fav circle jerk bear forum and pull on Ras's pud.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:46 | Link to Comment mick_richfield
mick_richfield's picture

You lead these little ones astray.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:49 | Link to Comment francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

I have taught all my nieces and nephews not to make the same mistake, have told them to contribute to their IRA's every year into a Vanguard ETF like SPY every year come hell or high water.

Jesus Christ...

You're leaving family scars that will pass on for generations... Somebody call social services...

 

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 19:58 | Link to Comment zerotohero
zerotohero's picture

I'd take the years you had surfing my friend - life is too short - tell your nieces and nephews that.

Tue, 02/28/2012 - 20:26 | Link to Comment cranky-old-geezer
cranky-old-geezer's picture

 

 

Missed one of the greatest stock bull markets ever, my IRA accounts were in mostly cash during that time.

If only.   Should'a - would'a - could'a. 

If we all knew Bernokio was gonna pump the stock market up (while letting the economy collapse) we all could'a made a fortune ...in nominal terms, not real terms, since the Dow still hasn't recovered losses since 2007.

And yes it'll keep rising (while the economy keeps collapsing).

USD is collapsing.  If you're not making 15% a year you're losing ground.

 

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!