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So Much For The Benefits Of College In America's "New Normal"?

Tyler Durden's picture


Continuing with the theme of the secular shift in the labor pool (not cyclical, as the Fed still mistakenly believes: it will take it at least one more year to understand it has been wrong about this aspect of the New Normal economy too, just as it was wrong for decades about the Flow vs Stock debate), it is not only men who are fresh out of luck. As a reminder, we observed earlier that the labor force participation rate for men has just dropped to an all time low. It turns out there is another class of workers whose participation rate is at the lowest in series history: that of "25 year olds with a Bachelor's degree and higher", i.e. college grads. At 75.5%, it is the lowest since this data has been kept by the BLS. But not all is abysmal in America's labor force. While the share of workers with a college degree has plunged to all time lows, a bright spot can be found when observing the labor force participation rate of those who never bothered with college, and for whom high school was their last known degree-granting institution. At 59.9%, the participation rate is well of its 2012 lows of 59.0% and steadily rising, in fact, to borrow a term from the housing bulls, it may well have "bottomed". Now there is some truly great news for the future of America's highly educated workforce.

None of the above, however, matters to hordes of young, impressionable wannabe college grads for whom college is the only hope out there, no matter the cost. Sadly, the cost is rising exponentially, and as we showed recently, total Federally-funded student loan debt outstanding is now at all time highs.

Luckily, the cost of the debt is at record lows. Sadly, the principal will still need repayment, as cohort after cohort of unemployed students will soon find out, and also find out that there is no discharge of student debt in bankruptcy: it is, indeed, the proverbial gift that keeps on taking.


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Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:27 | 2777096 SheepleLOVEched...
SheepleLOVEcheddarbaybiscuits's picture

I am a recent college grad with BA econ. Who wants to give me a job? Those student loans aren't going to pay themselves....

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:37 | 2777110 Clueless Economist
Clueless Economist's picture

I am a recent grad with a BA in African-American Studies and a Masters in Lesbian Literature.

I can't seem to find a job.  Should I get my Post-Doctorate in Economics or Trans-Gender/Trans-Sexual History?

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:40 | 2777120 BurningFuld
BurningFuld's picture

Absolutely, but ONLY if they let you borrow another $50k. Get whatever degree you want...price is no object.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:04 | 2777295 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

So you borrowed money to play beer pong for 4 years?...

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:19 | 2777339 economics9698
economics9698's picture

College degrees are not worth a shit because the textbooks are full of propaganda.  When the housing bubble came along I had six years of economic study under my belt and I had no fucking clue what was going on.  Not a fucking clue.  Freidman, Keynes, Samuelson, Fisher, all fucking bull shit that I paid for with my time and money to learn shit.

Yea I am fucking pissed, the fucking housing boom/bust cost me hundreds of thousands of dollars because I did not fucking understand economics, and I teach the fucking subject at the university level.

I had to completely re-learn the subject buying books outside the classroom, Rothbard, von Mises, Hayek, Ahamad, Raico, and completely relearn the subject.

When I read students papers today it plain as day these idiots are brainwashed with complete bull shit garbage.  Shit like we need to raise the minimum wage to a “working wage” and other useless bull shit that no employer will pay for.  I fucking cant even read this shit without grabbing a waste basket to puke in.  It’s pathetic and they all think they are fucking geniuses, that they have some secret that Al Gore told them that no one else knows and they will save the world by the brilliance of raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour or some shit they learned from Van Jones.

I mean they get to be juniors and seniors and they cannot fucking write a coherent economic thought.  Fucking drives me crazy.

Why are degrees useless?  Because students are lucky if they don’t know shit and worse if they believe the shit they were taught in college.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 23:32 | 2777504 r00t61
r00t61's picture

This is an epic rant.

+1 to you, good sir.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 00:02 | 2777555 hussaifa
hussaifa's picture


and you can have a hearty AMEN! 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 02:33 | 2777705 SheepleLOVEched...
SheepleLOVEcheddarbaybiscuits's picture

Trust me I figured out very quickly that the keynesian economics classes I was learning were completely wrong. Once I finished all the lower level course work, I took my major electives with Austrian professors. It wasn't all bullshit, as many may just quickly judge since it was an economics degree taught in the US. Minimum wage makes no sense in a free market....

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 03:21 | 2777736 Lore
Lore's picture

I'm in the same position. It took me a few years of real work to recognize fully that my first academic program was complete and utter garbage. One thing I can brag about is that I graduated without a dime in debt. I worked hard at crummy summer jobs, but THEY WERE JOBS. In the years that followed, I targeted courses in specific areas related directly to my career and interests.


Mon, 09/10/2012 - 03:31 | 2777741 RichardP
RichardP's picture

Take only those courses that will enable you to be a functional cog in the wheel.  Don't take any courses that would help you learn how to think and/or relate to the larger world around you.  And, most importantly - stay away from any courses that would help you learn to see that the emperor has no clothes.


Mon, 09/10/2012 - 07:47 | 2777871 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

I took micro and macro economics courses for an accounting degree, after those 2 courses I left college because it was obvious it was BS...none of it made sense or, at a minimum was arbitrary rules and 'theories' changed at a whim due to a designated 'economist' who makes up a theory that the fiat money masters like and want to promote.  I settled for engineering which is actual provable science like science based fields.  The dominant economics theories of today are chosen and promoted by the money powerz to promote THEIR agenda.  The evidence of this is how few, if any, economists or 'monetary theorists' that subscribe to austrian or alternative economic lines of thought are given a microphone or have television camera pointed at them in the 'media'. 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 08:12 | 2777901 rbg81
rbg81's picture

The truth is that the majority (~70%) of college students don't care if they learn something or not.  What they do care about is getting an A with the minimal amount of effort.  On some level, many DO realize that that degree in Sociology or Woman's Studies is pretty much worthless.  But they pursue them anyway because it easier for them to keep up their GPA.  And that is a crucial point (especially for those who are adverse to work) because they need to keep their GPAs up to qualify for financial aid (read:  student loans).  While degrees that can realistically earn them a living (like accounting, nursing, engineering or computer science) are not even considered because they're too hard and might pull down the all important GPA.

The best you can do for these students is to convince them to major in Criminal Justice.  They'll always be a need for cops and/or prison screws.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 17:04 | 2779831 Lore
Lore's picture

That's perceptive. Institutions are looking after THEIR interests. The relationship between the education industrial complex and the loan industrial complex is mutually beneficial to the detriment of the naive student.

I don't agree re: Criminal Justice. It's just another mill.  Law enforcement agencies deliver their own training. Speaking of mills, another big one in Canada is Social Work. In a country of far too much government, social workers are Legion.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 08:36 | 2777956 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Here here. I once received a C for an econ class after getting into an argument with the professor. My argument was that government spending masked weakness in the economy. He was a keynsian.

Looking back. I don't regret it. His PhD is worth shit to me.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 02:39 | 2777710 SheepleLOVEched...
SheepleLOVEcheddarbaybiscuits's picture

Yea that's exactly what I did......this forum has really went downhill, rife with ignorant, judgemental losers.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 04:34 | 2777779 Redhotfill
Redhotfill's picture

Lighten up Francis

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 07:10 | 2777840 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

Call me psycho or i'll kill ya

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:41 | 2777121 Element
Element's picture

Those graphs ... definition of what does not work ... literally

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:45 | 2777133 Buckaroo Banzai
Buckaroo Banzai's picture

Move to Washington DC. There is a place for you in the Obama administration. You'll fit right in at the DHS.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:49 | 2777137 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Occupy Faculty Lounges...bitchez.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:04 | 2777156 Law97
Law97's picture

I'd advise Trans-Gender history for your post doc.  You don't want to be stuck with a useless degree.


Sun, 09/09/2012 - 23:43 | 2777524 akak
akak's picture

I stand eager and ready to boldly enter the workforce with my BA in Differently-Abled Pigmentally-Challenged Womyn's Studies, with a minor in the History of Marxist Thought.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 02:45 | 2777713 TheFourthStooge-ing
TheFourthStooge-ing's picture

akak said:

I stand eager and ready to boldly enter the workforce with my BA in Differently-Abled Pigmentally-Challenged Womyn's Studies, with a minor in the History of Marxist Thought.

My recommendation is to continue your education by pursuing a MA and even a PhD at Dartmouth:

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 13:37 | 2779014 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

All hail our new Chief Diversity Officer!!!

oops, I said "chief"--that's racist.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:49 | 2777249 Son of Loki
Son of Loki's picture

Clueless, I'm surprised Harvard has not jumped all over you with an advanced faculty position.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:32 | 2777375 economics9698
economics9698's picture

Harvard hires Yids, black, females, lesbians, homosexuals if they are democrat, and no republican white males.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 00:10 | 2777567 Fecklesslackey
Fecklesslackey's picture

You forgot Cherokee with no Indian blood.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 03:49 | 2777760 dogfish
dogfish's picture

Yes pseudo indians.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:59 | 2777276 the 300000000th...
the 300000000th percent's picture

+1000 there a lot of fluffy bullshit degrees out there. If you want a job and your in college, get a real degree and switch your major to some facet of engineering. Mechanical, Electrical, Civil, Enviromental, Chemical.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:59 | 2777428 babylon15
babylon15's picture

Engineering companies have laid off just as many people as every other sector.  I know many engineers that lost their jobs.  There is no STEM shortage at all.  Lockheed Martin announced it will slash 10% of its workforce later in the fiscal year.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 08:55 | 2778003 the 300000000th...
the 300000000th percent's picture

You have a much better chance at getting a job anywhere with an engineering degree over an african american lesbian studies degree, period. Its the difference between sombody with intelligence vs somebody who is "educated" 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 13:39 | 2779021 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

Bullshit. What this country needs is more Diversity Officers, dammit!! FORWARD!

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 13:40 | 2779022 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

double post

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 23:28 | 2777497 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

Choose from the top of the list, avoid the bottom. Either way... minimize or avoid debt altogether.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 07:55 | 2777879 Vendetta
Vendetta's picture

Without manufacturing IN this country, none of it matters.  Trade policy has been remarkably kept out of the political limelight and has been a serious issue for a long time.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 07:55 | 2777880 LongSoupLine
LongSoupLine's picture

medical and specific to nursing, physical therapy and aging care is where it's at.  here in virginia, the 2 year community college nursing program grads are getting 30k spot bonuses from recruiters coming from all over the country.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 13:09 | 2778889 Panafrican Funk...
Panafrican Funktron Robot's picture

This.  Anything in the medical field = gravy until the boomers either die off or can no longer vote.  The engineering/computer science recommendation always makes me giggle, as if we even design or invent shit in the US anymore.  Every fucking thing has been outsourced you dipshits!  If you're not taking care of geezers, you have no job security.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 13:43 | 2779039 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

How about Professional Contract Killer, then? There's more than one way to "take care of" geezers. haha

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:03 | 2777281 markmotive
markmotive's picture

From one overeducated f@ck-head to another...b-school is for blow-hards.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:19 | 2777338 Colonel Klink
Colonel Klink's picture

Yeah but make up your mind, they don't like you changing mid stream.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 23:35 | 2777509 A Nanny Moose
A Nanny Moose's picture

You are well qualified for a cabinet level position in The Obamabot administration.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:36 | 2777113 Meesohaawnee
Meesohaawnee's picture

thanks to Ben Bernake and his onslaught of "markets" even worse. Do you question the validity of what you learned? I mean really he torched the textbooks

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:36 | 2777114 random shots
random shots's picture

BA in Econ, eh? So you learn to draw intersecting lines on a graph, do some basic calculus, and blame unforseen externalities when the goal seek and actual output differ signficantally? As your career counselor you have a future in teaching the econ doctorine to others or selling stuff...


Full Disclosure:I have a minor in Econ. 



Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:23 | 2777353 economics9698
economics9698's picture

I second that.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 02:36 | 2777707 SheepleLOVEched...
SheepleLOVEcheddarbaybiscuits's picture

this is complete judge when you know nothing about me or what I studied....that is the definition of ignorance

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:52 | 2777139 philipat
philipat's picture

Analysis of the new jobs being created shows that the new jobs are mostly low skilled low wage jobs. Last I heard, it doesn't require a Colleg degree to flip burgers?

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:06 | 2777161 JohnG
JohnG's picture



But there's all these buttons to push and timers going off all the time....lots of levers.  And the making change.

Oh wait....the registers do that too.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:12 | 2777319 Slightly Insane
Slightly Insane's picture

Now that's freakin "Change You Can Believe In" ....... That's exactly what the current ineptocracy meant by "transforming Amerika".

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 23:58 | 2777546 Freddie
Freddie's picture

I was paying for something at sub/pizza place.  I paid cash.  The kid could not ring it up properly and had no clue on how to make change.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:28 | 2777204 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

HVAC techs are needed. Hard work, not glamorous, pays well. A friend of mine that is a scientific american junkie told me the other day that they now have robots to flip burgers. Looks like even min. wage crap jobs will be circling the proverbial drain. 

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 08:33 | 2777946 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Can you say "Print and deficits don't matter"? Well then you should have plenty of opportunities in government or one of the large banks.

A healthy donation to the democan or republicrat parties wouldn't hurt either.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:28 | 2777099 Jay_Son
Jay_Son's picture

""25 year olds with some college or associate degree", i.e. college grads."  


Uh, no, it means they went to college but did not earn a bachelors degree.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:43 | 2777125 Tyler Durden
Tyler Durden's picture

That is the series now referenced, although both bachelor and "some degree", just dropped to all time lows.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:33 | 2777105 JacksNight
JacksNight's picture


Our Father in heaven,

hallowed be your name,

your kingdom come, your will be done

on earth as it is in heaven. Give us today our daily bread. Forgive our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation,  but deliver us from evil.

Matthew 6:9-13

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:46 | 2777132 Element
Element's picture

" ... And lead us not into temptation [to apply for credit to buy shit that we don't need], but deliver us from evil. ..."


Fixed it

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:52 | 2777140 This just in
This just in's picture

For I'm gonna get me some food stamps and gubmint cheese, and I'll have the coin to get those $300.00 freaking sneakers.  Debt slaves, rejoice!

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 13:47 | 2779062 Kobe Beef
Kobe Beef's picture

I'm gonna get my friends together on my free sail phone and flash rob the Foot Locker. Free sneakers for everybody! That saves my 300.00 for crack.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:55 | 2777148 My Days Are Get...
My Days Are Getting Fewer's picture

You got one green from me.


King James Version:



M't:6:9: After this manner therefore pray ye: Our Father which art in heaven, Hallowed be thy name.

M't:6:10: Thy kingdom come. Thy will be done in earth, as it is in heaven.

M't:6:11: Give us this day our daily bread.

M't:6:12: And forgive us our debts, as we forgive our debtors.

M't:6:13: And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen.



The Problem is:


Mastercard doeth not forgive.

Ditto: AX; GMAC; JPM; Student Loan Amalgamation, Inc.

To forgive sin is good.

But, to erase a loan receivable asset means a write-down in capital. That will not be permitted for institutions that are insolvent.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:25 | 2777198 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Now why is it again, that those who forever stand against wrong, are also some of the most willing to forgive and yet are still always the ones most attacked?

A conundrum to be sure ;-)

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:20 | 2777341 Slightly Insane
Slightly Insane's picture

I'm OK with the forgiveness bit, however, "after forgiving", "I don't want to see that behavior continue".  If the behavior continues then it will be dealt with in a punitive fashion. 

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:45 | 2777405 JohnG
JohnG's picture



I'll never forgive the bastards.

I'd love to rotisserie them in a freshly cut bear skin, slow, about 6 feet from the fire.

Should take days.

But I'm partial to the old native ways. 

A bullet in the forehead is ok too.

Or better yet, barbwire the bastards to a pine tree, pour honey on their head (a gallon should do), insert a saline IV to make them suffer longer and let them watch you dig their grave.

Then sit by a campfire while they are eaten by ants over the next month or so.

Need to hike in a little food, a case of scotch, other comforts...

That's just the native in me.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:46 | 2777408 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Also need to hike in a case of IV bags.....

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:11 | 2777170 JohnG
JohnG's picture



Our chairman who art at Goldman
Blankfein be thy name
Thy rally’s come, God’s work be done
In the Dow as it is in the Nasdaq
Give us this day our daily gain
And forgive us our frontruning, as we punish those who frontrun against us
And bring us not under indictment
But deliver us from regulators
For thine is the cashflow, and the power, and the bonuses, forever and ever.


The Book of Goldman 1:1-5

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:58 | 2777274 Terra-Firma
Terra-Firma's picture

Weii done!

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:03 | 2777292 JohnG
JohnG's picture

I'll be here all week.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:59 | 2777426 RonnyBoy67
RonnyBoy67's picture

John - super creative - I had a great laugh - then a great cry.  :)

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:18 | 2777183 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

" Forgive our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors. And lead us not into temptation, but deliver us from evil."

Jaime, is that you?

How's it going, so far?

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:26 | 2777202 JacksNight
JacksNight's picture


Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:47 | 2777243 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

I have no problem with forgiveness, in fact I'm quite good at it.

When the control structure does not care about such things,
I cry foul.

Matthew underestimated.

Biblical quotes will have no bearing on where we land, nor how we get there.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:01 | 2777275 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Yeah, here's the Dimon Himself (this took a little time....)


Our criminal who art at Morgan,

Dimon be thy name.

Corzine has come, his bailout is done,

From the slush fund we keep soundly hidden,

Give us this day our daily bribe,

And forgive us our manipulations, as we punish those that rail against us.

And bring us not under the CFTC's eyes,

But deliver us from Chilton.

For ours is the POMO, the profits, and the cash, forever and ever.



The Book of Morgan 1:1-5



(that sonofabitch Corzine still hs 28% of MY FUCKING MARGIN CASH, and if I get a terminal disease (and can find the motherfucker) he WILL die a VERY painful death)

I suppose I'm lucky to get what I got back,but it even makes my lawyers puke, and that's a hard thing to do.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:27 | 2777203 Hulk
Hulk's picture

2012 version ends like this:

Forgive our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors

and cancel out, our credit default swaps...


Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:08 | 2777305 JohnG
JohnG's picture



Bail out (on the taxpayers wallet mind you) our CDS.

Can you believe that AIG is STILL IN BUSINESS.

It's obscene.


(Is anyone getting that I'm feeling a bit surly tonight...)

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:38 | 2777225 Zgangsta
Zgangsta's picture

Turns out they didn't pick up the extra spaces in the Dead Sea Scrolls.

For give us our debts...

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:33 | 2777108 Snakeeyes
Snakeeyes's picture

It is not as bad as that graph shows because both measures are correlated but not different axes. If you put them on the SAME axis, people wiith college enjoy a marked advantage.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:45 | 2777130 tmosley
tmosley's picture

The chart is for labor force participation rates, though.  Lots of people who went through high school never intended to work (ie they got married right out of school, or graduated into the welfare system).

In other words, correlation is not causation.  Such factors must be accounted for before a head to head comparison.  Relative changes are valid to look at, though I think if anyone ran statistics on it, their moves aren't much more than noise, or a reversal of the last cross in Feb 2011 at worst.

BS article on a slow news Sunday night.  Go figure.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:38 | 2777115 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

Such is the end-game of self-absorption.

Damn who you will, but removing awareness and outward thinking (and dare I say humility?) from the equation never works forever.


We have arrived at the wind-down of yet another round.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:38 | 2777116 GMan_
GMan_'s picture

Where's the bell curve ?? hahahaahha I graduated from engineering and also an MBA (Harvard) .. yes, I graduated with a little more than $140K in student loans but paid them off due to the capital markets (thank you 2000 tech bubble burst).

Now looking at the same MBA program, it'll cost $116K for the entire program tuition and food and all. People need to understand that milking poor students will just continue to fuck our system up. But hey, who's counting right? As long as the 1%'s kids keep going to Princeton, Stanford, NYU and Harvard, people turn a blind eye.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:42 | 2777117 knukles
knukles's picture

The kids liked Ron Paul, don't believe any of the shit they were taught in school about the Great American Dream (other then that's all it was) Land of Opportunity, etc.
They figure they've been fucked by whom and by what is another matter and are cynical way beyond their time and age.
They are not a happy lot.
So much for the future of the Leviathan.

But they sure as hell have a better foundation of Character than preceding generations at their age....

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:53 | 2777142 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Once upon a time the School of Hard Knocks wasn't quite this expensive...but its a good thing they have now learned and are prepared for what comes next.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:54 | 2777242 EscapingProgress
EscapingProgress's picture

Many young people liked Ron Paul, but many others are still hopelessly stuck in the old paradigm and even more don't give a shit.  As long as the baby boomers insist on stealing from their children and grandchildren we will see no change.  Generation X (my parents) are the next selfish shitheads in the breadline insisting that they better get their social security money because they paid into the system their whole lives and are ENTITLED TO IT.  This, of course, is completely ignoring the fact that it is a pay-as-you-go system which constitutes theft.  Enjoy the last flicker of light on this earth because the Dark Ages are just around the corner.  I should have majored in How To Start A Fire Without A Lighter Or A Match.  I'm sure the paper my degree is printed on will come in handy one day.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:14 | 2777320 Cabreado
Cabreado's picture

Given your comment, it might be somewhat ironic that the sooner you resolve the "generation" thing in your mind, the sooner and better prepared you will be for... all sorts of things.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:59 | 2777427 JohnG
JohnG's picture

Exactly.  Ron Paul is a good man,

This fucker can't even see it.

(he reads TBP I see)




PS. You notice the big burly SS dudes in the pics

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 23:28 | 2777493 EscapingProgress
EscapingProgress's picture

Ron Paul collects social security.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 23:40 | 2777519 JohnG
JohnG's picture

And you know this how? Exactly?

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 00:42 | 2777603 EscapingProgress
EscapingProgress's picture

Ron Paul on Social Security

SAM STEIN: A bit of a personal question then, are you on Social Security? Do you get Social Security checks?


Sun, 09/09/2012 - 23:08 | 2777447 RonnyBoy67
RonnyBoy67's picture

Escaping Progress - I am a Gen Xer and do not expect a dime from the SSA.  I really don't even want it - or anything else from others for that matter.  It would be nice to only have to worry about me and mine and those I WISH to help like back in the old days.  As a former financial advisor for twenty years I can't believe all the bull advice I happily doled out over the years after being extensively "trained".  Escaping Progress, sorry your parents don't understand yet that the funds they receive won't buy them much in the end.  My Dad a boomer told me that at first he was almost ashamed at how much SSA he was getting.  He worked so hard his whole life and retired a millionaire.  But now only a few years later, post crash and heeding lots of Jim Cramer advice - his portfolio has been shredded and he feels that he now NEEDS social insecurity.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:44 | 2777128 q99x2
q99x2's picture

Not everyone goes to college to get a degree. And it is no longer cool to pay back loans of any kind. Where have you been dude? Shits collapsing all around. The US is under attack by the banksters and perceptions and meaning is being redefined. Law has been removed from the US at the top and that has profound effects on perception of what is right and what is wrong. The individual still has a conflict of interest to deal with because of morality but with regards to banks and loans no problem at this point.

I don't have any student loans. They keep giving me grants. Can you believe it? At the current rate of my college attendence I will be 65 by the time I get my masters degree. Just in time to retire.

Life's a learning process.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:49 | 2777138 Incubus
Incubus's picture

Life's a learning process.


Oh no you didn't.



Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:26 | 2777362 Slightly Insane
Slightly Insane's picture

Retire from "what"?

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:52 | 2777141 Stuck on Zero
Stuck on Zero's picture

Here's what a college degree does for you.  It gives you attitude.  You now are above blue collar work, physical labor, or working anywhere but in an office tower - even when you earn much less.  In short, you are qualified for a government job.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:54 | 2777143 duo
duo's picture

welding, bitchez

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:08 | 2777167 HelluvaEngineer
HelluvaEngineer's picture

A noble trade.  +1

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 23:33 | 2777507 EscapingProgress
EscapingProgress's picture

+1 I see Journeyman welders can make $50/hr+.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 01:01 | 2777633 seek
seek's picture

Not a bad plan at all.

My daughter is out of high school the end of this year, and I've been struggling with directions to point her.

She wants to go the usual 4-year route, but I've been thinking of proposing to her that she get multiple skills/certifications that have maybe a 6-month time investment each. Getting something like an EMT-B comes to mind, as does welding but being a woman, that's a reach. It's a challenge to come up with a list of several of these, particularly for women -- I'd love to hear anyone's suggestions for such a list.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 09:08 | 2778040 CaptainObvious
CaptainObvious's picture

Send her to trade school so she can learn a useful trade with the prospect of immediate employment post-graduation.  She can learn to be an HVAC tech, a plumber, a mechanic, a machinist, a welder, etc. and will make very decent money in a career that is desperate for viable employees.  She can use those skills to fix her own shit, thus saving her future income. She can fix your shit for you, saving you money (and paying you back for paying for her schooling).

If she won't listen to reason, refuse to co-sign any college loans and tell her she's on her own.  There is no good reason to sacrifice your own financial security on the slim prospect of your kid majoring in a useful subject and having a decent paying job at the end.

Don't let her gender keep her down.  I'd gladly stare at plumber's crack all day if a woman were crouched under my sink fixing the pipes. ;)

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 08:39 | 2777960 sessinpo
sessinpo's picture

Machining. Plenty of welders out there. Not so much for those that machine, especially with the latest technology.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:55 | 2777145 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Fuck yea!!! College kicks ass!!

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 20:55 | 2777146 yogibear
yogibear's picture

With in-state colleges costing over $100,000 for 4 years the banksters have life-long debt slaves.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 00:07 | 2777559 r3phl0x
r3phl0x's picture

Universities basically provided more attractive terms to the banksters - loans that cannot be eliminated through bankrupcy - and thus ensared the young before the real estate industry could get them.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:02 | 2777151 Yardfarmer
Yardfarmer's picture

My first son is a graduate of Puget Sound University class of 2001., majoring in International Political Economy. the job market was pretty tight at that point. K applied for Teach for America and was accepted. After a summer internship at Rutgers, he began teaching in the South Bronx. After a couple of years there, he participated in founding another TFA pilot school in Newark and spent another three years there creating a reading curriculum and teaching. He applied for a joint masters program with one year at Columbia and another at the London School Of Economics in the History of International Politcal Economy which  he recently graduated from. Now he is a free lance ecucational consultant with $80,000 of student debt making 70K a year. My second son muddled through 5 years at three separate high schools, barely graduated, snowboarded his way through a year of abscences at the local "mountain college" and chased fun and girls. He worked at a liquor store until some crackhead pushed a .38 in his face. He went into remodeling and painting with his dad and uncle. He presently is bartending and building wineracks and tables for local urban makeovers. They're both good kids, I'm proud of both of them and wish them the best.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:59 | 2777280 JohnKozac
JohnKozac's picture

No need for expensive colleges (and/or college loans). IN fact, you don;t even need to walk out  your door !

I heard on the TV (infomerical between Jerry Springer and Judge Judy) you can earn money right from your own home...never leave your house....don't even need to put up ANY of your own money....Flipping Houses....

Yes, they need many more "team members" (the ad says) to help them Flip since there are so many that need Flipping evidently.

Sounds pretty genuine...


Old paradigm: Working, tie, shirt, slacks, and perhaps a blazer.

New paradigm: Flipping Houses in your PJs from your bedroom.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:40 | 2777395 Slightly Insane
Slightly Insane's picture


Mon, 09/10/2012 - 07:34 | 2777859 Implicit simplicit
Implicit simplicit's picture

Good for your kids and you! It is not what your kids do that is really important, it is the morals that you have instilled in their approach to interaction and living that counts. Congatulations to you, you must ahve done a good job. My four are all good kids who I am proud of:P 2 artists, a restaurant and bar manager, and a sheriff/ oyster farmer.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:00 | 2777152 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

I'm sure the government will have a debt forgiveness program if they volunteer for the upcoming war.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:28 | 2777207 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Or medical students "volunteering" to become government doctors to expunge student your bets kiddies.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:02 | 2777155 ZackAttack
ZackAttack's picture

Last three big bubbles left:

- Medicine

- Defense

- Higher education

#3 popping before our eyes. Waiting with popcorn for #1 and 2.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:17 | 2777180 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

Medicine already popped. Defense, well, the world hs been waiting on that one since we lived in caves

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:25 | 2777199 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

Last bubble: government T-bills

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:33 | 2777216 Zgangsta
Zgangsta's picture

Last bubble: the value of human life.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:09 | 2777168 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 I guess some of those undergrads should take out loans, for Graduate Degrees from the " Skool of Hard Knocks" Ehhh?

 Lets get these "fudged" China numbers out, so I can get a early jump on shorting some risk! ;-}

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:09 | 2777169 Dr. Gonzo
Dr. Gonzo's picture

Any idiot who can sign their name to a student loan document can get a college degree. The government couldn't be more happy to give these young unemployed people a place to go to for 4 years after they sign their slave contract for life to their banking associates. 

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:23 | 2777172 Oldrepublic
Oldrepublic's picture

Excellent opportunities in college debt collecting!

According to New York Times:

The New Oil Well?

"Business is booming at ConServe, a debt collection agency in suburban Rochester. The company recently expanded into a neighboring building. The payroll of 420 is expected to double in three years".

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:22 | 2777179 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Are Americans WILLING to work?

I dought it.

With the highest corporate tax rate in the world why would brilliance come to America?

Where is CERN?

Is it by coincidence that the brightest minds in physics have fled the USA?

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:24 | 2777197 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

CERN is in Europe. At one time Europe understood education needed to be two track. The workers needed technical educations to fill the factories, labs and workshops with skilled workers so there was an education track for them. Professions needed university educated kids so there was a track for those bound for university.

It was only America who ignored the workes and tried to send everyone to college. So we have ONE education track and it surely is a disaster!

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:35 | 2777206 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Why are the brightest minds in the world back in Europe and not in the US?

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:54 | 2777257 Jack Burton
Jack Burton's picture

Because Europe built the greatest physics tool on earth! Also, Europe has decided to build the greatest earth bound telescope in history by an order of magnitude. The high tech telescope will be built with European money by European scientists and go up in Chile I believe.

The US has wars to fight. We have no money for science anymore. Besides, Americans are turning more and more against science. DO you think the average American even WANTS to know what CERN can discover? That would blow away their bible based mind set. Imagine what this new telescope could reveal? ANother blow to bible belief!

As I understand it, this new telescope when completed could allow the observation directly of small rocky planets around stars in our part of the galaxy. Instead of indirect observations as now is done, we could actually see the planets and study their light spectrums. If there is another earth like planet anywhere nearby, we could actually see it.

Of course this will offend the bible belt folks who already have the perfect knowledge the bible confers on it's readers.

I can see the day the US fundamentalists flip out and start buring books and destroying science labs that offend them. A new Christian Taliban is on the rise. It is their way of the highway!

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:24 | 2777348 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Physicists will never again give any government the knowledge of what they know.

I hope I am correct in that assertion.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 01:04 | 2777638 seek
seek's picture

It's not that they won't give it to the government, it's that there's no one in government capable of comprehending it, thank Cthulu.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 01:14 | 2777649 honestann
honestann's picture

You are utterly and completely wrong.  The percentage of scientists and engineers who have and act upon ethical considerations is just as small as the general public.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 00:56 | 2777626 monad
monad's picture

James Webb space telescope, Burton.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 00:56 | 2777627 monad
monad's picture




Mon, 09/10/2012 - 06:46 | 2777819 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture




Jack Burton said:

Because Europe built the greatest physics tool on earth!


Anyone else remember the Superconducting Super Collider that they started to build in the vicinity of Waxahachie, Texas?

Anyone else remember why the project was halted(canceled in 1993)?

from link: 


The SSC's planned collision energy of 40 TeV is[was] five times the current 8 TeV of its European counterpart, the Large Hadron Collider (LHC) at CERN in Geneva.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:27 | 2777201 FieldingMellish
FieldingMellish's picture

Just like Flow vs Stock its about Degree Type vs Level. Some degrees provide more leverage than others. However, starting your career with a five-figure debt let alone a six-figure debt is not smart regardless of your degree.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:40 | 2777231 WillyGroper
WillyGroper's picture

Many jobs with degrees required in corporate are being outsourced to India just like radiology. They're doing everything they can right down to the toilet paper to maintain the facade & it's not working. 

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:29 | 2777208 Zgangsta
Zgangsta's picture

While I agree with the article's sentiment as a whole, the Student Loans chart presented shows costs increasing incrementally (a steadily rising straight line), not exponentially (curving into a hyperbola)

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:34 | 2777213 SafelyGraze
SafelyGraze's picture

<-- Yes! Pell me! 

<-- huh? no /sarc

Global competition rewards the individual who sets themselves apart with well developed skill sets.

In the past, a BS degree served as a marker for that distinction. The solution now, though, is to add the additional MS distinction (or earn a professional degree).

It's a little more work, but employers will instantly notice the MS at the top of your resume.

Endeavor to persevere! 

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:33 | 2777217 analyzer_66
analyzer_66's picture

Our currency, who are in paper, dollar be thy name,

thy chairman come, his will be done, in Fed, as it is in heaven,

give us a dollar and daily bread

for give us our passbooks

back to the banks who trespassed against us

lead us not into liquidation

but deliver us from the krugmannites

for thine is the financial center, the interest and tribute

for ever and ever


Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:34 | 2777220 tony bonn
tony bonn's picture

there are many jobs for which a college degree is a prudent requirement and many for which it is a larded crock of shit - like the call dispatcher position paying 15 usd/hr solicitation i once saw....if you are a college graduate and 15 usd/hr is your pay, may i suggest that you have been swindled?

the data is a triumph of banksterism and signpost of economic failure and catastrophe, especially when men are not laboring....god have mercy on us all....

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:42 | 2777233 yogibear
yogibear's picture

Next the banksters can push for debtor prisons for deabeats and tap cheap slave labor. There is no bounds to the control of Wall Street and the banksters.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:56 | 2777263 curly
curly's picture


best US minds can't make a living w/a PhD physics degree, as least working "in physics", or survive grad school.  The NSF (US National Science Foundation) has long had a policy to import as many non-US students to PhD programs to keep costs down.  Sorry.  not about talent in the US, it's about keeping costs down and maximizing returns in big academia.  Alan Greenspan said this was a good thing, so it must be.  He said the same about the H1B visa program in testimony before US Congress, google it.  Can't have native people with actual talent and useful, productive skills making more money than the managerial/nanny class in the old US of A, now can we?  (Is this a British tradition?)

my daughter just discovered how international free markets work.  went through an extensive competition and interview process and won a job in CH.  A week before starting, they discovered, that oops!  you're not an EU member citizen.  sorry.  no job.  The Chinese are a little more subtle.  They let you work or open a factory for a little while.  Until they've milked you for your knowledge/IP/money.  then, oops!  sorry.  1-way ticket home.

I also happen to work with 3 ex-MIT, ex-Yale, ex-CERN/LHC physicists.  They also happen to be smart guys.  Chose to stop working in physics.

Keep it up w/the 'murcans are too stoopid/lazy/whatever'.  Eventually, those stoopid, lazy, etc. murcans will tire of the old reacharound, and getting sold out by assholes like Greenspan, Rubin, Paulson, Gramm, Clinton, Bush, Obama, etc.  tic toc, buckwheat, tic toc.


Sun, 09/09/2012 - 21:59 | 2777279 monopoly
monopoly's picture

And to reinforce the continuing failing benefits of college this from: NYT Now they even have the lowest scum, debt collectors, going after the youth and future of this country. Good job Obama. Keep kicking them till they die. That is when their debt will be "forgiven". But lets spend a trillion on War! This country is so fucked up!

Debt Collectors Cashing In on Student Loan Roundup

Apologize if already posted.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:00 | 2777283 fireburn999
fireburn999's picture

As a recent college student, who finished a BS in physics at the top of my class at a mainly aerospace engineering school, I do not know one person that I graduated with, including the engineers who are not employed or not offered work for decent salaries.

It really depends what you get your degree in. I was never told in high school that technical degrees would yield bank salaries right out of college. In fact I hated the primary education system so much when I was in high school that I decided not to go to college. I chose to work at an icecream store instead and thought that would be a better career choice than soaking up student loans. Yes it is a horrible education bubble, but the state monopoly on primary education is the real problem. All of these teachers subtlely tell our kids: "Yes you can get a degree in Gender Studies and become a HIGH SCHOOL TEACHER LIKE ME!!!!!"

Yes we need to get rid of the student loan spigot, but not for technical degrees. If you want to put yourself through the mental gauntlet that is a four year degree in mathematics, chemistry, physics and or electrical, aerospace, biomedical, optical, chemical engineering, then it shouldnt be a problem to take out a loan. Most of the time you can pay your loan back in less than ten years. A few months ago I remember reading an article that JPMorgue or Goldman said something like they should raise the interest of a loan for technical degrees and lower it for arts majors. That is just going to do the opposite of what they want... More liberal arts degenerates and less domestic scientists.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:02 | 2777288 fireburn999
fireburn999's picture

pay your loan back in less than ten years if you arent foolish enough to have kids or buy a McMansion**


Mon, 09/10/2012 - 01:11 | 2777644 honestann
honestann's picture

Sounds great, except for one nasty thing.  In the statist economy of the USSA, most practitioners of science and engineering fields will help the predators-DBA-government create, deploy and operate weapon systems to destroy people in foreign lands, and to enslave people at home (wherever that is).

Sure, if you get a technical degree then start your own company to create benevolent, productive products... then good for you... and everyone else.

Listen up.  Being a scientist or engineer is WORSE than being an outright bum --- if what you do is help the predators-DBA-government/banksters/corporatists lie, cheat, steal, defraud, enslave, destroy others.  Sadly, very few scientists and engineers care enough for ethics or morality to REFUSE lucrative paychecks that pay them to harm others.


PS:  I am a scientist, engineer, inventor, product-developer... so I see how it works.  And I've even taken a few contracts from NASA and AFRL on projects that seem to me to have no malevolent purposes... but have had to turn down the vast majority of offers precisely because they were either malevolent or potentially-so or possibly-so.

Just getting a job isn't the end-all and be-all.  Being productive and benevolent is.  It is literally better to starve to death than feed the beast.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 07:18 | 2777845 Implicit simplicit
Implicit simplicit's picture

The conundrum being that much of the technology that is put to truly noble purposes gets its incubation from technology developed by the military industtrial complex and/or the  health care industrial complex  Start-ups using grants are required to give first dibs to the grantor on develpoped technolgy from the grants, and it is impossible to survive using your own funds, unless one is independently wealthy.

Unfortuneately, rationalization and survival instincts more often than not preempt the deire to be benevolent  when it comes to doing research that doesn't possibly have, at least, some tertiary malevoent purposes.

Anothe rproblem is that the educational complex has reached its tentacles into the system requiring people working at menial jobs to have degrees as a prerequisite. Ridiculousness

Tue, 09/11/2012 - 00:38 | 2780819 honestann
honestann's picture

I understand why you draw those conclusions, and there are real reasons what you say tends to be true... while not being completely true.  Yes, the military-industrial complex does in fact get vastly more investment, which originates from taxes (money stolen from everyone) and fiat money printing (money stolen from everyone).  And yes, this gives them a huge advantage.

But your notion that nobody can develop technology themselves (without outside investment) is just plain false.  Difficult?  Yes.  Increasingly rare?  Yes, but largely due to self-fulfilling prophesies like the one you just made.

I suppose the main problem is this.  Given the endless echo-chamber that endlessly screams collectivist propaganda, very few scientists, engineers and inventors are sufficiently individualist to live the way necessary.  This includes the ability to be very frugal and bootstrap their way up, with each revenue-producing endeavor financing later ones.  Easy?  No.  Possible?  Yes.  Happening?  Yes, but not nearly enough.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:18 | 2777329 BlackholeDivestment
BlackholeDivestment's picture

Controlled Demolition, established by the lack of the required return for labor, by the contempt and corruption of the offer(s) of temptation, based on the short term (fixed) gain of the Gubermint political slush fund and it's wanton market whore claim of dominion , by which the Suicide Vampire Squid has accepted the strong delusion of the Fed Beast's Bankrupt Sigma 666 ''Open For Business'' call that has broken the public trust, penetrated the Chnese Wall ...and aborted labor for the black hole image in the mirror, which explains why the future's uncertain and the end is always near. 

...let it roll Baby ...Roll.

Talk about screw'd, the kids are not alright.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 23:12 | 2777454 monad
Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:42 | 2777399 mharry
mharry's picture

The best way to take care of your wife and kid's is to get divorced. We've been divorced for 20 years after two years of marriage. She decided she really did love me, but the hidden benefits weren't apparent until we had kids. The stupid state offers amazing insurance to single mom's and never bothers to ask who the father is. My daughter just got a free ride to college via grants, because they think she lives in poverty. I'd feel bad about it, but with the taxes, fees, licenses I pay being self employed, I'll take it.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 02:38 | 2777709 saints51
saints51's picture

you're welcome.

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 07:08 | 2777839 nmewn
nmewn's picture

Nice example you set for your kids...I'm sure they will regale their children for hours on end about the integrity of their paw paw.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:49 | 2777411 Uncle Remus
Uncle Remus's picture

Brown shoes don't make it,

Quit school, why fake it.


Sun, 09/09/2012 - 22:59 | 2777419 monad
monad's picture

College is never "the only hope out there". Uncle Sam has excellent opportunities for motivated youth. Enlist, visit exotic places, meet strange people, then kill them. Best toys in the world, bar none; immunity.

Its not just a job, its a helluva ride. If/when you choose to get off many doors will be open to you, including college. the major difference is that you won't be strapped with $100,000 in debt.


Mon, 09/10/2012 - 01:00 | 2777631 honestann
honestann's picture

True... but SICK.

Sun, 09/09/2012 - 23:35 | 2777508 Freddie
Freddie's picture

Poor kids. The seniors, baby boomers and youngsters who voted for Hope & Change f**ked themselves.  Nice job.  The kids who have graduated from college in 2008 to 2012 will be passed over for new grads if there is any economic recovery in 2013 or 2014, which I doubt.

Assuming the economy, somehow, recovered a bit in 2015.  The kids who graduated in 2008-1014 are screwed. They are zombies.  If Islamo gets reselected then people with money will sit on it until 2017.  Unemployment will go even higher.  Kids who graduated in 2008-2009 will be around 31 to 32 years old in 2017.  They will never find decent jobs.  

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 00:26 | 2777588 Fecklesslackey
Fecklesslackey's picture

Great business for Federal Government ... Borrow money at 1% and loan it out at 3.4% ... you'd think they were a bank. Except for a 50% default rate, it should turn out well

Mon, 09/10/2012 - 06:50 | 2777824 Implicit simplicit
Implicit simplicit's picture

I would guess the average rate on student rates is beyond 8%. I have 4 adult children in their 20's with college loans for whom this is true; 100% true for the parent plus loans for me.  students and parents didn't listen anagram: u deaf lot = default

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