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So... What About Those Next 20 Days?
This is what happens when the market prices in $1+ trillion in loose money from the Chairman, and gets a sharp stick in the eye instead.
The VWAP algo attractor comes through in the clutch:
Curve inversion has begun:
Stocks plunge, commodities collapse, Morgan Stanley refutes facts presented by a fringe blog, gold and precious metals are liquidated as margin calls explode, dollar soars as every bank in Europe scrambles to get its hands on every Benjamin it can get, Treasurys surge to never before seen prices even as CDS of the underlying countries soars, and the DJIA posts the third biggest weekly drop in history (and the week is not even over yet)...
...And beneath it is all is the creeping realization that the Fed's most recent global bailout action with the ECB, the SNB, the BOJ and the BOE does not start for another 20 days, or October 12, 2011. That's right: three weeks in which there is nothing in place to provide the much critical trillions of dollar that every bank in the world so desperately needs. We wish Europe all the best in pretending for 20 days that it can survive on its own, even as Greece is about to become the riotcam's favorite destination once again.
... Oh yes, and Goldman is about to announce it was just stopped out on its 1.55 EURUSD "tactical" trade.
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20 days ain't what it used to be.
Early Fed action BITCHEZZZZZ
like I've said before...it's all fun and games...until someone pokes an eye out.
Then it's just Fun.
Mom?
Hahaha.
Here, stick this charcoal briquette in it. Be Frosty.
hah ha ha ha hahah ahhaah (wheezing sound)
The markets will eat up-to 4 rumours per day. Are people that stupid? Yes they are.
Does this mean we are three square rumours away from a revolution?
"...first by inflation, then by deflation..."
So very true.
At the end of the day an ounce of Gold or Silver is still an ounce. Let these cocksuckers central planning the economies of the world with fiat devour themselves. Economic law will ultimately play out.
All true....so watch the paper Gold and Silver markets closely too for much better buying ops. I just love, BTW, the way stocks will get ramped into the close while Gold and Silver will probably end on their lows.Sure, this isn't a rigged market.
I am stacking the PM's while they are on sale!!
Stop, you are making me laugh so hard, my ribbs are starting to hurt
Marc Faber says Bernanke did the right thing.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vyQwX3arbww&feature=player_embedded
the right thing would have been if he whipped out a bag of steaming shit and smashed it in his face
...but he also said he is sure Bernanke will do the wrong thing soon, in a major way.
RIOT CAM....RIOT CAM....RIOT CAM!
Yeah, they were rioting in Greece today, though no mention of it from msrm.
capital preservation... hat tip to the cash holders.
I hate to tell all the gold bug hyperinflationist thinkers this but ... I told you so!
I repeat: the only way to resolve a credit bubble of epic proportions, the likes of which the world has never seen, is through a credit deflation that matches it.
It's not a credit deflation, it's deleveraging.
Call it what you will, but when your currency is backed by credit and the credit "deleverages" it shrinks the money supply which is deflation. The CPI will go negative and the dollar will rally. Gold will drop along with every other asset class.
That's only true when money isn't synonymous with credit. In this case, once ZIRP flattens the yield curve, today's bubble "the likes of which the world has never seen," will be invisible as it will be too small to measure.
And those who hold gold will be quadrillionaires in today's units of account.
Gotta give the cash guys some credit, it's due.
I'm holding steady with the silver, but cash would've been great trade.
Never a bad idea to have 3 - 6 months worth of fiats there in the safe or uder the mattress..
Every broker is pushing this "Buying Opportunity" hard right now...
Wonder where the silver and gold trolls are today?
Busy buying MOAR!
Huh? I'm not talking about the PGA's and the SLA, I'm talking bout the paper shills. A 10% drop in silver should have them crawling out of the woodwork.
Masticated, digested, and rendered into feces.
AGQ ain't low enuf yet.....
The moment Printocchio announces QE3 I am buying all the AGQ on Margin I can and hopping out of FAZ. Easiest way to short the market is to just buy metals. Hopefully by then I am up 150% but I am not buying a single equity until Dow 2800.
These are fake fake prices.
Fake prices isn't even the half of it. They've got their fingers in everything. Chris Powell over at Gata puts it the best when he says "There are no more markets, only manipulations." That pretty much sums up this global ponzi market. Something has to give, and soon.
Grandpa. Please tell me that story again about those things called fundamentals.
It's like a giant Rube Goldberg machine, complete with its efficiencies.
Whatever became of the 'position limits' in the dodd-frank bill?
Weren't they supposed to be imposed by now? And why, if the margins on Ag were raised higher than on gold, is silver pummelled so easily?
Where is that pultroon Chilton (the one who said he gave a shit about us)?
Rhetorical questions, answers are obvious.
Good point. They should be here telling us how stupid we are and that gold is going back to 800 or lower. And mining stocks are worthless. Something tells me they got the shit kicked out of them in the market today with their "growth stocks". Hmm.
lol. That may be it. :D
I noticed that also, the comeback in the last 20 minutes or so. But on what looks like low volume.
Awww, the cutie-deer is back!
@deerheadlights Laughing my A$$ off right now... on my way to buy more some silver and ammo.
As long as we close off the lows all is good right?
Did all of those who said Gold and Silver dropping due to margin calls was a stupid scenario, read this?
Will the CME reduces margins required on silver and gold? OF COURSE NOT!
It's a good thing. They keep shooting that ammo, and if they don't reduce the margins, it's the same as never reloading. I wait for the day they hit 100%, because their power will be gone, their gun out of cartridges.
we are still 460 sp points above the bottom of 2 year ago....
Look at the bright side LULU is down almost 5%, BTFD
Seems as though the Dow is testing the Aug. 10th. closing low of 10,719.
Equities coming off lows now. PMs still trading near the bottom. This was definitely an attack on PMs today.
Coincidentally... the CFTC announces today they are broadly expanding the exemptions to derivative transactions in regards to position limits. http://www.platts.com/RSSFeedDetailedNews/RSSFeed/Oil/6513276
Bart Chilton are you out there??
and in what should come as a suprise to nobody the MSM and DC are banging the war drums-
Mullen: Pakistan behind Kabul embassy attackSomewhere on Reuters (?) the new and improved genocidal gubamint of Free Libya anounced that they agreed with France and UK that Syria needed a good fucking for humanitarian reasons.
(Lemme see, France and the UK agree with the new Al-Queda gubamint in Libya that we should invade Syria and install another Al-Queda gubamint. Am I missing something, I says to myself?)
We wish Europe all the best in pretending for 20 days
Thank you very much, Tyler. I duly appreciate your kind words.
BAC = fucked.
Stay tuned.
As usual, gold and resource stocks were the hardest hit.
Totally brutalized.
Now let's see if they can crack CMG, LULU, AAPL, etc. tomorrow.
Riiiighht...Gold ans silver decimated but tell me where they were in 2009 when the Dow was at these levels?
Exactly.
well, you could have bought gold at 900 begining of '09, now 1800, a nice move. but, if robo bought aapl @ 100 on the same day, she made twice what you did. and lulu which sells spandex yoga gear to 300 lb fat women is now 55, was 5 beginning of '09. care to cherry pick some other date?
Were not talking about Apple..great company and great stock to own..even me the largest bear will admit that but the greater whole of all other equities shows actual purchasing power was lost. You sir are cherry picking one or a many stocks.
Not so dumbass. It's your thread so try to keep up. You mocked Robo who first picked both aapl & lulu. You picked gold and provided a time line. I merely reported the result which was not to your liking. And, btw, DOW high 2009 10.6, about where we're are. So, while gold did well, AAPL did better, and LULU, best.
LULU will go to zero, gold will not.
The question is, will we all be dead before that happens?
You can't compare the performance of a sector to the one of the best performing sub-categories of another sector and expect to be taken seriously. Gold is an ASSET CLASS. Compare it to other ASSET CLASSES, not cherry-picked equities.
And if you don't like the date he picked, pick literally any other before that.
And you are a complete dumbass. Gold is either money or a commodity or both. Only a fucking cfa candidate would classify it as an asset "class."
You have no business here. Good day, sir.
riiiight BUT what if we went back to 1636 and bought a tulip shop? or if we jumped in our time machine and went to 2645 to sell jars of dirt to the fishpeople?
Exactly.
You weren't supposed to talk about the (You know what) machine.
Ahh there we go. Once can always count on RobotTrader to dispense the wisdumb.
Don't waste your time...once a pumper always a pumper.
Robo,
The answer you seek is in the chart of the EEM.
Funny how gold and silver are still significantly higher over the last 12 months....can't say that about your much vaunted (and brutally mauled) NFLX. Just sayin.
SIRI down 7.2%
EEM down 6.7%
LULU down 4.5%
DBC down 3.6%
SPY down 3%
GLD down 2.7%
SGOL down 2.5%
And the thing that pokes the biggest hole in your argument: FSG... up 1%. This can't happen without the S&P bear position outperforming the gold bull position loss today.
FINRA Defends Algo Requests as U.S. Worries Grow
09/21/2011 6:23:34 PM ET
NEW YORK (Reuters)—A Wall Street regulator that requested computer trading codes from some brokerages stressed it was a last-resort investigation and not intended as a "witch hunt," as industry worries grew that secret and highly-valuable algorithms could fall into the wrong hands. Reuters reported on Sept.
***********************************************************************************
More Cow Bell!! Bitchez!!
or algo's.. whatever.
You dont see Algo's losing $2 Billion Dollars in 30 days on risky bets!
sub-penny, the answer to ALL the Worlds Problems, LOL!!
Bank Prop Trading Is Dead, Long Live Prop Trading
Investment banks are finding new ways to continue to gamble their own money on financial markets, risking the wrath of regulators.
LONDON - Investment banks continue to gamble their own money on financial markets, hiding behind clients, in a widespread practice that risks the wrath of regulators, particularly after Swiss bank UBS lost $2.3 billion in rogue-trading.
http://www.wallstreetandtech.com/trading-compliance/231601971?cid=nl_wallstreettech_daily
"...the wrong hands". I love that one. Those wrong hands could "unfairly manipulate the market", unlike those who are fairly manipulating the market...
Some will call evil good.
Monkeyhammer!!!!!!
Aw...how cute...all the BTFDers are just randomly buying in hopes of some rumor tomorrow morning..fundys be damned..lol
they just advised we are not going into recession on cnbc. Wow, now I feel better.
I guess that means we go straight to the depression. Lets go and get this shit over with. Am tired of all the stimulus, printing, and bull shit from worthless politicians and bankers. Lets just dump and maybe recover with real money.
are we still experiencing stable instability?
Unexpectedly.
Have no fear!! Meg will save the day!!!
Jon Schaffer of legendary heavy metal band ICED EARTH nails it!!!
Bang your skulls to some Iced Earth!!!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GjZxiHWPrZ4
BB - pos rep for the Iced Earth reference - devil horns up! \m/
Very cool that the band is awake.
I'm now a fan , thanks.
Is that your post graduate thesis?
Impromptu for the masses?
Tyler, any update on imbalances going into the close this afternoon?
So, if Silver is such a tiny, tiny market, how come it gets liquidated to the tune of 10% today? A 10 % takedown is BIG in any market, in fact in some it would be a once in a lifetime move and yet this is the second 10% drop this year in Silver!
It doesn't make any sense to me, but I guess someone out there can rationalise it.
If you haven't noticed, silver is trading far lower in overseas hours before U.S. markets open. This is an unsusual pattern. It typically hold steady to up, then will declince in U.S. time. So, this tells me two things: A) it's a paper sell-off in Europe and Asian markets and B) it has continued over into U.S. markets as well.
So when there is a run on what appears to be everything you can count the paper Gold and Silver markets in that camp still. I'm guessng with the shear amount of noise even physical sales slow down on days like yesterday and today.
So if you are concerned, short Copper; it's less stragic and whould protect you silver well. Just IMO.
Hit knee (copper) with hammer, get knee, jerk.
Physical silver is a tiny market.
PAPER silver is 100x the size.
The price currently being discovered in the paper market is still influencing the physical price, but at some point, those numbers are likely to diverge so widely that the paper market becomes irrelevant when people talk about "the price of silver."
@ Geezer
"I guess someone out there can rationalise it."
Do you mean like the 10% + 1 day move of the Swiss Franc?
I think its called market manipulation.
If you’re long it’s “manipulation”.
If you’re short, it’s “brilliant trading”.
If you’re neutral, it’s what happens when the trade is crowded and somebody has to liquidate.
The market is Peak Bullshit. Decade long undulating plateau.
Maybe its just me, but just love the duality of it all....
Everything is just a mirror of everything else. Fun house.
on acid. D-Lysergic 25 go long.
I thought Goldman would be making money for the EUR/USD. Don't they do the opposite of what they recommend ? Only people who follow Goldman's recommendation lose their shirts and pants.
You see what happens, Larry?
Exactly. +1 (great movie)
Next 20 days should be better than the rest of the year was for me, personally.
If the volatility stays and the volume remains, it's like the good old days.
Lately this market had been like molasses or like watching paint dry.
Sans government intervention...
Now FIGHT CLUB is really on!
Remember the second rule of Fight Club: you don't talk about Fight Club.
I do agree that this was better than the past. Makes up for July 2010 to June 2011 shenanigans for sure.
Let's get Wave 3 of 3 on. Let's go!
I covered today. Someone started to buy the financials. PPT likely. AH is green, futures should churn higher. Let's see if Asia and Europe stay flat or go up slightly. Tomorrow is not Black Friday unless something develops overnight or a certain American financial institution has to make a few phone calls....
WS recovers a little bit from the "bloodbath". So does not end on lowest point of the day. Follows: green trades in Asia, Europe and tomorrow on WS. No panic, no Armageddon.
I think even those predicting "Armageddon" are expecting at least a 3 - 6 month timeline. Everyone knows declines are managed in order to extract the maximum amount of total trading volume.
The markets will either crash or tread water on rumors alone for 20 days... hey anything is possible
Isn't this a buy opportunity on PMs?
Yes, but it will be better in a week. Maybe better than that later. I will buy after OpEx, personally.
mmmhmmm you do that
You're such an astute investor always telling people to buy right before a market implodes. Maybe you can teach me that trick someday.
Hey hows that silver you were buying at 50?
Not as numerous as the silver I bought at $8, $10, $12, $14, or $16.
Maybe one day you can tell us all how you made 20X returns by betting against a raging bull market, while belittling those betting on the raging bull market?
Oh good, you can sell where you bought at, very smart.
And I am telling people how I do it, I made a website diary of every trade I make. Why don't you ask my readers how they feel about the trades I've made? It's a free website tmosely, I don't make a penny off of it, you should check it out one day when you feel like learning how to make money.
How's that cure for cancer chugging along? I don't see how you find the time to cure cancer while spending so much time on ZH and at the coin shop. That's some amazing time management.
No-one cares about your little bullshit website, and they certainly don't care about an abrasive little shit who can only prove his worth by attacking others without provocation. Hilarious how you just can't stand that I am right about anything, as though you have built up your entire existance around me.
As to the cure for post-metastatic prostate cancer, we submitted the material for testing at the NIH, and they found that it reduces growth of lymphoma cells by 90%. Sort of interesting, but they didn't even use the medium that we told them to, which contains the chemical that fuels our catalytic reaction. We will have them retest it over the next few months. Being the government, they are exceedingly slow at these things. Our own trials should be finished by the end of the year, at which point we hope to move on to animal trials.
Time is not an issue when you have technicians as well as every medical and engineering PhD candidate within a hundred miles trying to start a project with you. You would be amazed at how independant they are. The ones who aren't don't last long around here.
Oh, I was unaware that the people from all over the world who read it didn't give a shit about it. And I attack you because it's fun and easy. If people actually listened to you and bought silver at $50 they would have been slaughtered and here you are again slinging the same bullshit saying gold was a great buy at $1900. Leave the bullshit at home.
Bob sorry for calling you a troll. I checked out your web site, pretty cool.
Keep on keepin on.
And leave the cancer cracks at home too, please.
I'm not making cracks about cancer, I've had family that have had cancer. This comment goes back to several months ago when tmosely was on ZH 24/7 telling people to buy silver literally days before silver dropped 45% while at the same time saying he found a cure for cancer or whatever bullshit he was saying at the time. Now every PhD everywhere wants to work with him.
I didn't find it, my lab group developed it.
You, on the other hand, have never done anything with your life. So sad :(
Why don't you find a cure for stupidity and take it.
I see, now you are so angry that you have degenerated to 2nd grade level insults.
You couldn't make me angry so don't flatter yourself.
If you aren't angry, then why are you hurling out childish insults? Why do you purposefully fail to see that I have, in fact, made money, as have those who followed my advise? If you aren't mad, then why do you feel the need to lie?
You are a liar, Bob. Anyone can see that.
Ding ding! End of round one. Keep reading for round two. Keep swinging boys.
Have you not heard the global economy is teetering on the edge of total collapse and it'd be wise to buy as much as you can when you can because the shit is going to hit the fan soon? It's gonna come in handy.
You are a liar, Bob, and you always have been. Or just an idiot, perhaps.
I have ALWAYS told people to COST AVERAGE. But you lie and claim that I only tell people to buy when gold or silver are high. I tell them to buy each and every month, and that has been my position for YEARS. Trav tried to pull the same bullshit lie on me, and I did the calculations, and found that for every $500 I had lost people who invested the way I told them to, they had made ten million, and that was in the year prior to that (because silver was only at that level for a few days, where I had been shouting to buy silver from the rooftops for years).
Why are you such a weak person? If your trades are so great, let them stand on their own. Don't make up BS lies about people to make yourself seem better. That is what a loser does.
Funny how you only pull this act when my long term predictions are coming true, ie increasing volatility with strong downward bias in paper markets.
You were telling people to buy silver at $50 because it was going to $70 in a few months and you're calling me the idiot? Where's silver at now that it's months later dumbshit? 36. Same bullshit with gold right before gold rolls over.
Your predictions coming true? Like what PM prices are going to $0 but your jumping off of roof tops to buy them? Just shut the fuck up already and get back in the lab.
See? You are so weak you can't even acknowledge any correct calls by anyone whom you have labelled an "enemy". It's as if in your mind, my calls only come into existance a few days before a correction. Tell me, did you make $2 million by ignoring the trend 95% of the time because you are a slave to your emotions, as you demonstrate here?
What a loser.
I don't consider you an enemy. Just the guy who's gona end up cost averaging losses along with anyone that follows your advice.
You go far out of your way to ridicule someone on the internet (who has been RIGHT for YEARS) while you supposedly have made two million dollars. That speaks volumes to your personal shortcomings, no matter how you look at it.
If I am so wrong, then why am I worth so much more than when I started? How come everyone who has listened to me has made so much money? How have you made so much money by fighting the trend? Why would anyone care about your magical bullshit trading where you apparently have to time shit so well, and use so much leverage that you have (upon your own admission) 50% swings in the total value of your portfolio per day?
Something doesn't fit. Either you are lying, the market is, or you are a God-level 9 sigma trader. Given your childishness, I think we can eliminate one of those possibilities.
Going out of my way? I'm in a plush leather chair with my feet up. Stop making it seem like I'm climbing mountains to call out your bullshit. The reason I call you out is because if people actually followed your advise and bought silver at $50 they would be out BIG.
And as per my trading, since I started the website I am over 400k and I made every trade public. So thank you for calling me a "God-level sigma 9 trader" At least you can finally admit it.
Uh-huh. I'm sure you will say nothing of the million dollar loss the next day, but you will brag about the 750K gain the next.
Did you forget that you are using so much leverage that you gain or lose 50% in a day, and it in fact took a Bernanuke on the markets to put you into the green? You think you can avoid being wiped out forever trading like that?
Also note that you drone on and on about my calls, but never go on record yourself, other than your stupid play trades. So, Nostradumbass, why don't you tell us where silver will be in six months or a year?
What million dollar loss? And what play trades? There was a guy trying to say that on my site and that he had "proof" Well I provided conclusive evidence and he never came back. Was that you tmosely?
BTW you keep calling me a liar when I can't figure what I'm lying about. You're the one saying how much money you make doing things like buying silver at 50.
And as for silver. I think we could see low to mid twenties in a 6 month time frame. That's not set in stone so don't hold it as scripture but from what I look at suggests a mid to low 20's in 6 months.
Bullshit. You said 20's by year end, and now you're changing your story. You are a very bad liar Bob.
Example: you are "short silver" at $32 yet magically make money when silver is trading above $40. Like Mogul (who also is a bad liar), you always come out on top and never lose money on your trades, no matter where the price is.
It's a joke that people take you seriously around here on PM's.
I move in and out of positions depending what the market does. If you follow my trades you will notice that. And that one particular trade you are referring to I did lose money and I closed it out. I also lost money on some of these trades http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-oCoKZfqKSZE/TnJDsV-EDpI/AAAAAAAAANA/7GyVMxPRvjI/s1600/LOSSES.PNG
I don't make money on every trade I put on so stop being a cock smoke and trying to find some conspiracy. I hope you become a daily reader so you can see that I in fact make losing trades.
And why do you always jump on tmoselys bandwagon regardless of the topic? He's a big boy, he can take care of himself.
If you make bad trades and lose money and brag about your record then wtf do we have to watch you and Tom trash each other for being human?
So, what you are saying is...it is okay for you to make a bad call but not tmosely. Total freaking hypocrite. Just for the record, I have been a member for a year now and tmosely has said to buy monthly numerous times. HYPOCRITE!
Why do you suggest mid to low 20s in 6 months? What is your reasoning? Is it because no one is buying it? Not even the guy I keep seeing on the street corner saying he'll pay you top dollar for your gold and silver?
Get phyzzical, phyzzical.
You can't figure out where you are lying? How about paragraph two, where you ONCE AGAIN make the claim that I only bought silver at $50 an ounce, despite the fact that I have said REPEATEDLY that I buy every single month, and have for YEARS.
And no, I never posted on your dumb site. I guarantee you that you don't have anyone from Lubbock visiting your site, and that is where I live and work. Your little fakie portfolio is one of dozens that you have (you admited this previously), and you claim that others have better returns. Why not post those? Or did you just put together a dozen fake portfolios and then post the one that made money? EVERYONE knows exactly how much I have gained on my investment, as I started buying silver monthly after the crash in September 2008, and am on the record numerous times as such. But you keep claiming that I have been losing money. Because you are a liar. And a pathetic one at that.
I look forward to silver in the low twenties, where none will be available in physical form, and volatility will be through the roof. I wonder if your stupid ass will admit it when you have several trades go violently against you and you get a margin call and lose everything? Probably not. You'll just disappear like all the other trash.
I don't recall saying you only bought silver at $50 but from what you were saying during that time period you were buying by the handful which you are now down about 45% on.
Secondly I'm not defending my site anymore. I've posted the full screen shot with all trades and everything visible except my acct number which I redacted for obvious reasons. That proved categorically that it was legit and shut the last guy up that was calling it BS. You either read it or don't, it's your prerogative I don't give a shit as the site is not monetized. I can assure you I have better things to do than manage 12 fake portfolios 18 hours a day.
Thridly you call me a liar?
"Your little fakie portfolio is one of dozens that you have (you admited this previously)," Show me where I said that and I'll pay pal you $100. You never will though because I never said it and never would. That is a patent lie.
And I've been a registered user on this site for just about as long as you and have been following ZH since it was on blogspot, so I doubt I'll be disappearing anytime soon.
dup
And what is your website address? I'd like to take a look at your diary. You didn't post it in any of your replies and it's not on your ZH detail page.
http://tradeonfire.blogspot.com/
@ HeNateMe
This is my web address:
http://trololololololololololo.com/
So you are saying this guy is a troll? Hmmm. I might agree with you because I just tried to get on Apmex and Gainesville and both websites are EXTREMELY slow. Must be A LOT of physical buying going on.
No I thought he was originally, that's why I apologized. I just love that song. You'll catch on.
OR...
Maybe you have slow internet
I don't understand why you are so mean? You are just a meanyhead. Sheesh.
OMG that http://trololololololololololo.com/ shit was hilarious!
I told you would catch on.
...
I am new to this arena. Can you please explain how PM prices are going to zero? I want to understand your rationale. I would think they would still have some value, especially due to inherent inflation. Just like anything else we buy. But your comment made me wonder...Let me know.