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Solt Griechenland Weiter Am Euro Beteiligt Bleiben: Then And Now

Tyler Durden's picture


On any other occasion, we would translate this title from the German into English, however at this point in the European lifecycle it is self-explanatory. A poll was conducted by Germany's ZDF today, asking many questions, but this one above all. The answers were then compared to a similar poll conducted six months ago. It is pretty clear which way Germany is leaning (certainly not the one suggested by a very clueless Peter Mandelson during the Munk Debates).

Source: ZDF


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Fri, 05/25/2012 - 21:25 | 2464258 tahoebumsmith
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Viel Glück mit diesem Bitchez...

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 21:42 | 2464291 The BEST ever
The BEST ever's picture

Gold, Hündinnen

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 21:54 | 2464307 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

running through the forest silently

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:27 | 2465148 He_Who Carried ...
He_Who Carried The Sun's picture

Tell the Greek tax payers

to put their own foot in to

their mouths and try to

chew it!

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 15:10 | 2465794 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

The Germans should direct some of their anger towards their banks which lent vast sums to the Greek government without ny due diligence and then to the politicians for bailing out these banks at the government's (people's) expense.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:48 | 2465373 ZeroSpread
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Learn another language buddy and you won't need to rely on Google Translate for stupid translations!

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:12 | 2465574 mkhs
mkhs's picture

That implies there are only two languages?

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 21:30 | 2464263 barliman
barliman's picture


Germany did show the world the power of the blitzkrieg.

Maybe now they will show the world power of a strategic retreat.

It's super effective ... especially if you don't give anyone any warning before you do it.

Auf Wiedersehen, bitchez!!! 


Fri, 05/25/2012 - 21:39 | 2464285 RoadKill
RoadKill's picture

In the NBA its called pulling the chair.

Shaq was amazing at it. He gets you to support your entire body weight on him and the next minute hes not there and you are on your ass staring up at his ballz with him hanging off the rim and giving you his shit eating smile.

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 21:43 | 2464287 brooklynlou
brooklynlou's picture

Germans dont retreat - they do Stalingrads. They hit the dream like limits of what they think they can accomplish, then they dig in to keep what they thought they won, then they die. They mistake a delusional intractability for courage. 

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 23:03 | 2464427 barliman
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It is a fatal mistake to assume the other guy playing the game is as dumb as he looks.

Have you neve played pool or poker for cash?


Sat, 05/26/2012 - 05:41 | 2464852 brooklynlou
brooklynlou's picture

More a chess player. I understand that the moves you make in the beginning have an effect on how the game pans out and that you can't take moves back.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 09:49 | 2465076 francis_sawyer
francis_sawyer's picture

strip chess requires a different strategy than traditional... Besides, Germany is more like 'dominoes'...

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 02:11 | 2464676 The Reich
The Reich's picture

It's right, we don't do revolutions but  follow our political Fuhrers without a murmur till the end, be it Stalingrad or today in €Yrope.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:21 | 2465128 walküre
walküre's picture

Sadly, you are correct.

It is the downside of the self proclaimed perfectionist that they do not know when to call it quits.



Sat, 05/26/2012 - 05:57 | 2464874 Nachdenken
Nachdenken's picture

the German spirit you refer to is lost under a cloak of guilt and shame.  A new book by Thilo Sarazzin "Europe does not need the Euro" tackles this  penance in the German psyche that makes the ntion  pay, submit, accept  retribution.

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 21:35 | 2464274 skepticCarl
skepticCarl's picture

How will Germany evict Griechenland from the EU?  Even after they default, again, Greece will probably just be an EU squatter, since the Greeks want to remain, but cannot or will not radically change their whole culture and economy to meet the draconian austerity targets.  Anyone who has had to evict a deadbeat tenant knows what a loose-loose dilemma this is.

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 21:46 | 2464294 brooklynlou
brooklynlou's picture

Greeks are pulling tens of millions of Euros from their banks daily. Those paper euros come from the German mother ship. Once they stop the supply, Greece is gone, poof, like that, from the Euro.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 03:09 | 2464746 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

hey, lou!  don't you mean IF they were to stop the supply?

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 05:38 | 2464850 brooklynlou
brooklynlou's picture

Hey Stewie, thats the crux of the matter - call it Merkel's version of Prisoners Dillemma.

I know the ZH crew thinks she'll fire up the presses again (its easy and kicks the can down the road a bit but at a cost) but I think she'll bail. She's had three years to be a leader and try to renegotiate the Euro, to try to structurally fix it, but all she's managed to do is get a bunch of politicians (nee liars) to promise to spend less and live right. Good luck with that.

So welcome to prisoners dillemma - either she prints like crazy (commits) or does nothing and exits the Euro by killing it (rats out). Remember, first one to bail gets screwed less.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 09:00 | 2465043 Uchtdorf
Uchtdorf's picture

I'm amazed that any ZH reader could still ascribe such intentions to Merkel or any leader of Europe/North America. They are all puppets, simply puppets, doing their masters' bidding. Create an illegitimate political construct, stir up some farcical currency with lots of rules to be ignored, and voila!, the bankers own you...and you...and you...oh, and you, too...and your nauseum.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 12:52 | 2465518 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

i've had no debts for decades

yes, the pols are generally the puppets at this point

merkel is on the hot seat, so i'm stoking the tinder and trying to melt her nylon and teflon support  L0L!

i'm actually trying to reach readers in germany;  who think as you seem to;  sound like you're not enthralled by the bankster-operated continent of tribal rivalries, industry, and lusts

fuk the EU!  put the full-court-press on frauM, as we say in basketball, here;  don't let her come up for air without confronting her about this:  expose her sell-out to the banksters

and don't forget the sex, drugs and music, too!

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 21:37 | 2466453 brooklynlou
brooklynlou's picture

Theres no such thing as 'Europe' 

Theres a Germany tied to a bunch of cheating fucks. Her masters are German and she will do what her masters command. 

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 12:57 | 2465531 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

now, lou, you know my mother was a rat...L0L!!!

did your neighborhood in brooklyn go thru the "kill it before it multiplies" thingy when you were kids, playing? 

well, it's multiplying!  Kill!  KILL!  KILL IT, BiCheZ!

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 05:16 | 2464832 noses
noses's picture

Easyly done: Just stop paying for those leeches and they're done. They'll just shrivel up and dry out.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:24 | 2465137 walküre
walküre's picture

Germany cannot evict any one single nation but we can make their lives so fucking miserable they wish they had never fucked with us.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:30 | 2465616 brooklynlou
brooklynlou's picture

Wally baby, the Euro was a German credit card that you loaned to everyone so they could buy your stuff. It's not a bright long term strategy to piss off the customer base.

I remember in the pre-euro days that Greeks would travel to Germany to buy a new Mercedes or BMW and then proudly drive the car back. It was practically a religious experience.

When Things go fully tits up and torched BMW dealerships get displayed on German nightly news, then you'll see if your standard of living will remain at the level you've gotten used to ...

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 13:36 | 2465631 Bam_Man
Bam_Man's picture

Sure looks like that is what they are doing to Greece.

And Spain, Portugal & Ireland have taken notice.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 17:20 | 2466019 mjcOH1
mjcOH1's picture

Telling them 'sorry, no handouts today' is about as miserable as they need to make them.   No handouts from German = no handouts to Greek citiezens = fast exit from the Euro so that monthly checks (in whatever currency) can be paid out.

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 21:35 | 2464275 Eally Ucked
Eally Ucked's picture

All those tax evading bitches are happy doing it, but if Germany doesn't want to pay bills for others is nazi mentality, isn't it?

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 21:37 | 2464278 RoadKill
RoadKill's picture

Could someone please translate the poll question. Is it should Germany stay in the Euro or is it about Euro bonds or something else (like should Germany invade Greece and get collateral for their loans).

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 21:39 | 2464284 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

Should Greece stay in the Euro?

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 21:49 | 2464299 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Can we work from a time frame? If it's under 18months  Unequivocally, YES!

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 06:05 | 2464880 Nachdenken
Nachdenken's picture

"Should Greece continue to remain /participate /be part of the Euro ?"  The German populaton and press - including heavyweights such as the Wirtschafts Woche and Focus - were reticent from the start. 

Charging political windmills, RK.

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 21:38 | 2464280 Master Chef
Master Chef's picture

küssen Sie Ihre Arse Auf Wiedersehen...

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 22:08 | 2464338 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

No ass kissing quite yet.

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 21:44 | 2464293 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

 Die Europäische Union wird für den griechischen Wahlen warten, bis im Juni abschließen. Das gibt der Bank-und das politische System tp vorzubereiten.

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 21:52 | 2464303 scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

yo but Niall Ferguson nailed it in closing..   bloodbath indeed.

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 22:06 | 2464333 Yen Cross
Yen Cross's picture

Das Französisch wird weiter pushen für Verkehrssteuern und Eurobonds.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 05:18 | 2464833 noses
noses's picture

Das Französisch can me cross-wise for all I care. It will end up as Sauce Hollandaise anyway.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:56 | 2465398 Nussi34
Nussi34's picture

Fuckthe French. They are gay and socialists!

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 21:59 | 2464315 Wood
Wood's picture

Tyler, take a step back and think. When they put an Italian in the ECB everyone said they would print. When the runs started on the Greek banks everyone said ECB will print. Guess what? No print. It has been almost a week since the runs started. How long does it take a run on a bank to kill it? Remember MF Global? Remember Lehman? The Greek banks will survive.

ECB is doing exactly what they need to be doing to save their currency. Europe has to be weaned off the socialism in order for there to be any kind of future for their standard of living. Printing won't accomplish that, and they know it.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 03:13 | 2464755 Non Passaran
Non Passaran's picture

Excellent analysis! I did not expect that there still are people out there who believe this won't entail more ECB printing in some form (LTRO. ELA, whatever).
Now I am very encouraged to buy few more ounces of PMs next week when May paycheck lands on my bank account.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 04:15 | 2464802 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture


1 year 18 weeks

10 posts?

and you're telling tyler fuking durden what to do,  here?  on zeroHedge?  wood? 

another "weaned off the socialism" post for the EU to "save its currency"?

dude or dudette:  this is zH

you are fuking toast, here, asswipe!

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:23 | 2464859 falak pema
falak pema's picture

you keep knee jerking like ZH was some sort of closed shop run by red necks for the red necks of isolationist bent. Go ride your bicycle into the red red sunset and keep riding unti you hit the Pacific. This is a free forum. Or I'm GWB.

Knock on wood! If you're tongue in cheek.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 11:53 | 2465393 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

my tongue in whose cheek, old sport?

of course this is a free forum

any time you wanna have a death match with slewie, just let me know, ok?

and have a nice day with your booze and your daughter, too!

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 21:59 | 2464316 jez
jez's picture

". . . (certainly not the one suggested by a very clueless Peter Mandelson during the Munk Debates)"


"A very clueless The Lord Mandelson", I think you mean.


What a slimy little shit that man is.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 05:50 | 2464856 Disenchanted
Disenchanted's picture



yeah but he hangs out with the 'right people'


"Nathaniel Rothschild says sauna with Lord Mandelson was purely pleasure, not business"


Mr Rothschild claims the former Labour minister’s presence was “purely recreational”.


Lord Mandelson travelled to the region on Jan 30, 2005 as a guest of Mr Rothschild, scion of the banking dynasty, and Oleg Deripaska, the billionaire owner of Russia’s biggest aluminium plant. Also present was Peter Munk, a Canadian gold magnate, and Sebastian Taylor, a friend of Mr Rothschild.


During the trip, the men were thrashed with bundles of birch twigs by a 25-year-old male banya keeper before jumping into ice water to improve circulation and cleanse the skin.


Oh and btw....


Nathaniel Rothschild loses Daily Mail libel case



Financier Nathaniel Rothschild has lost his libel case against the Daily Mail following a 2010 story which he said portrayed him as a "puppet-master".


that from:

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 22:50 | 2464409 A Lunatic
A Lunatic's picture

Someone is about to get schnitzeled.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 05:26 | 2464842 noses
noses's picture

I thought that's why they are called PIIGS. Slaughtered and butchered they are called POORKS, I guess. While the Austrian likes his Schnitzel to be made of veal, the German doesn't care who it has been made of as long as the sauce is ok and the fried French are crisp (which Hollande will take care of, being a real socialist). Bonus points if it isn't too expensive (and it is looking like PIIGS getting cheaper by the hour).

Fri, 05/25/2012 - 23:06 | 2464432 guinea
guinea's picture

When I saw the word Griechenland, somehow it reminded me of gingerbread.  

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 02:23 | 2464694 Inthemix96
Inthemix96's picture

Hmm, the only thought that comes to mind when peter mandelsons name crops up is shit.

That dirty fucking scoundrel deserves not just a good hiding, but one every day of the week for the rest of his life, he is a bonafide leech of the highest order, if you Americans dont know who he is, google him, he will repulse you more than even gwb, even more than the odious b.liar.

That cunt wants taking out, period.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 02:52 | 2464722 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

Wirtschaftlichen Terrorismus.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 02:56 | 2464723 TNTARG
TNTARG's picture

Terror durch wirtschaftlichen. Or so.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 03:02 | 2464739 jcamargo
jcamargo's picture

I think Germans still don't know what is going on. Decades of fake growth also sponsored by the Euro.

The German industry is playing the same game we used to play at home as little kids.

First we put all our favourites toys at the table - cars, stamps, magazines.

No, you can not have it yet, you need to buy - but you do not have the money.

Then to great relief we gave our friends the Monopoly money - now you can choose which one to buy. Great fun.

Well, the one difference is we did not care about 'GDP growth', and we collected both the play-money and all of our toys at the end of the game.

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 03:32 | 2464773 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

this is a strange thng, j_cam:  gingerbread, above 

i got: is that where beetlejuice lives? 

you!  this is great!  but like the 'gingerbread' and the model train village of the greeks,  you see germany involved in a kid's game! 

and what you 'got' leaves us with:  and where did the germans get the toys and the monopoly money for this?

do.not.look.behind.the.curtain.   L0L!!!

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 03:07 | 2464743 mohadiep
mohadiep's picture

Here in Germany the people just follow the politicians and what the media tells them what to think. In recent month the trend turned to "it's ok when Greece leaves the EURO". One year ago it was "no fucking way". People who speak out the truth are banned form the mainstream media. Isn't democracy wonderful?

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 03:52 | 2464783 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

zH is wonderful media!

thanks, mo!  that's what i thought too, but mostly cause that's how it is here, too

turn off the mainstream media

tune in tyler and the ww.people + ?

the best part about you guys is the 3 trillion pound elephant in the room:  >germany leaving the EU<  mainstream?  L0L!!! 

no fuking way?

listen, mo:  try broaching the subject for a while!  have some fun!  you don't hafta be a pariah like slewie, altho you may not be much smoother, perhaps

just ask, like: you wonder if anyone else has ever had this horrid heresy come into her wayward mind?  isn't it weird we can't leave the EU but greece maybe can?  what's up w/ that?

maybe they'll decide you're not really german!  is that possible?  does anybody ever say shit like that?  doesn't anybody but me think germany should just say:  "you go ahead without us, ok?  we're not brain-dead yet, BiCheZ!"  ?

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 03:15 | 2464758 lewy14
lewy14's picture

Solt Griechenland Weiter Am Euro Beteiligt Bleiben

Am going to beat Bieber with a salted greased wiener? WAT?

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 15:53 | 2465865 Sandmann
Sandmann's picture

we would translate this title from the German into English,


If it was in German you would hae a head start

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 04:48 | 2464818 bvrulez
bvrulez's picture

Hey Yankees, Euer Deutsch ist Scheiße! ;) Deswegen haben wir auch Erfolg, weil wir Fremdsprachen lernen und unsere verdammte Arbeit machen. Und wer der Meinung ist in Europa herrscht Sozialismus, der hat leider keine Ahnung, was Sozialismus ist.

Edelmetall, Huren! ;)

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:29 | 2465152 walküre
walküre's picture

Wer nicht arbeitet und Steuern bezahlt, aber von der Krippe bis zur Bare versorgt werden will ist ein Nutznießer.

(He/she who doesn't work and pay taxes, but enjoys government TLC from the cradle to the grave is a parasite)

Die Griechen sind Nutznießer.

Auf gut Englisch:


Sat, 05/26/2012 - 17:08 | 2465984 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture


Sat, 05/26/2012 - 08:04 | 2464967 BeetleBailey
BeetleBailey's picture

I'd like to see the tally of this question - if it was asked.....

Would you prefer to go back to our Deutschmark, or stay in the Euro?

Sat, 05/26/2012 - 10:33 | 2465160 walküre
walküre's picture

It would have been 95% YES and 5% NO .. the 5% being the financial elite parasites and their whores, so called "captains" of the industry and politicians.


Sat, 05/26/2012 - 08:26 | 2464991 Germany4Liberty
Germany4Liberty's picture

Our Media turned around in the last 2-3 weeks from "We will hold Greece in the Euro no matter what" to "Ok lets kick them out already". It is really frightening how they manipulate the masses. I told the only greek person i know he should advise his family and friends in greece to take all of their money out of the bank as soon as possible....but he didnt listen to me .... well what was I expecting? -_-

greetings from Germany. Peace!



Sat, 05/26/2012 - 18:20 | 2466120 WebSurfy
WebSurfy's picture

Our finance minister "Wolfie" Schäuble's big dream is to establish sth. like the United States of Europe. He admitted, that difficult politicial transformations like this are best implemented in the crisis and that he will not hesitate to "use" this one for the final steps...

After taking a short look in his 10 year old book "Mitten im Leben"... well, this guy is strongly heading towards a political European Union for a long time.

Seems like they're preparing the German public for a Grexit, but I still can't believe it's gonna happen. It's more likely to calm the voters. In case of a pro-bailout outcome in the next Greek election, the endless bailouts just continue. The majority of the Greeks don't want to leave the Euro (sadly). 

What really matters is to avoid a disorderly grexit (could it be done orderly?). Notice that some Greek banks seem to have been recapitalized almost silently with around 10bln, just enough to survive some more weeks till end of June. Schäuble is pressing hard to establish the ESM to be ready to start on the 1st of July. This ESM-Monster is a very important milestone. Anyone reading this treaty has to call it frightening because it's clearly unconstitutional. It is effectively abolishing fiscal rights from the parliaments of the different European nations. The ESM is acting as a bank and it will finance directly every nation in need (yes, almost all of them). Guess who is paying the bill?

Don't care about the fiscal pact. It  is just another calm pill for the electorate, a toothless treaty just like the Maastricht criterias. The participating nations cannot and will not meet the austerity criterias in the fiscal pact.


PS: Ludwig von Mises: "If one rejects laissez faire [liberty] on account of mans fallibility & moral weakness, one must for same reason also reject every kind of government action."


Wed, 05/30/2012 - 08:54 | 2474950 boa74520
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