This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.
Soros On Europe: Iceberg Dead Ahead
George Soros has been a busy man the last few days. Appearing at the INET Conference a number of times and penning detailed articles for the FT (and here at Project Syndicate) describing the terrible situation in which Europe finds itself - and furthermore offering a potential solution. Critically, he opines, the European crisis is complex since it is a vicious circle of competing crises: sovereign debt, balance of payments, banking, competitiveness, and structurally defective non-optimal currency union. The fact is 'we are very far from equilibrium...of the Maastricht criteria' with his very clear insight that the massive gap, or cognitive dissonance, between the 'official authorities' hope and the outside world who see how abnormal the situation is, is troublesome at best. Analogizing the periphery countries as third-world countries that are heavily indebted in a foreign currency (that they cannot print), his initial conclusion ends with the blunt statement that "the euro has really broken down" and the ensuing discussion of just what this means from both an economic and socially devastating perspective: the destruction of the common market and the European Union and how this will end in acrimonious recriminations with worse conflicts between European states than before.
However, he offers some hope and a potential solution to the fact that these nations have implicitly handed their 'seignorage rights' to the ECB, in the potential for a balance between fiscal austerity and deflation (or at minimum new rules that would remove to a greater extent the vicious circle of the fiscal compact as deflationary debt trap). The punchline being the creation of an SPV that 'owns the ECB's seignorage rights - estimated to be worth $2-3 trillion' that could explicitly be used to acquire bonds without violating the Lisbon Treaty. The sad truth of this admittedly smart financial engineering (pretend austerity and optically no money printing when exactly that is occurring) is that the Bundesbank will never agree to it (as implicitly it ends up at the foot of the German taxpayer to a greater or lesser extent) even though, as he concludes, the future of the Euro is a political one and thus "beyond the Bundesbank's competence to decide." Just as we noted back in December and reiterated here as likely given TARGET-2 imbalances (also confirmed by Deutsche Bank), Soros points out that the Bundesbank has "started taking measures to limit the losses that it would sustain in case of a
breakup." and this creates a self-fulfilling prophecy that markets are reflecting.
A must-watch harsh reality check on Europe and a man trying to find answers when the authorities remain blind to the endgame...
Project Syndicate: Reversing Europe’s Renationalization
George Soros
NEW YORK – Far from abating, the euro crisis has taken a turn for the worse in recent months. The European Central Bank managed to relieve an incipient credit crunch through its long-term refinancing operation (LTRO)...
The fundamental problems have not been resolved; indeed, the gap between creditor and debtor countries continues to widen. The crisis has entered what may be a less volatile but potentially more lethal phase.
At the onset of the crisis, the eurozone’s breakup was inconceivable...
If [ECB encumbrance] continues for a few more years, a eurozone breakup would become possible without a meltdown – the omelet could be unscrambled – but it would leave the creditor countries’ central banks holding large, difficult-to-enforce claims against the debtor countries’ central banks.
The Bundesbank has become aware of the danger. It is now engaged in a campaign against the indefinite expansion of the money supply, and it has started taking measures to limit the losses that it would sustain in case of a breakup. This is creating a self-fulfilling prophecy: once the Bundesbank starts guarding against a breakup, everybody will have to do the same. Markets are beginning to reflect this.
The Bundesbank is also tightening credit at home. This would be the right policy if Germany was a freestanding country, but the eurozone’s heavily indebted member countries badly need stronger demand from Germany to avoid recession. Without it, the eurozone’s “fiscal compact,” agreed last December, cannot possibly work. The heavily indebted countries will either fail to implement the necessary measures, or, if they do, they will fail to meet their targets, as collapsing growth drives down budget revenues. Either way, debt ratios will rise, and the competitiveness gap with Germany will widen.
Whether or not the euro endures, Europe faces a long period of economic stagnation or worse. Other countries have gone through similar experiences. Latin American countries suffered a lost decade after 1982, and Japan has been stagnating for a quarter-century; both have survived. But the European Union is not a country, and it is unlikely to survive. The deflationary debt trap is threatening to destroy a still-incomplete political union.
The only way to escape the trap is to recognize that current policies are counterproductive and change course. I cannot propose a cut-and-dried plan, but three observations stand out. First, the rules governing the eurozone have failed and need to be radically revised. Defending a status quo that is unworkable only makes matters worse. Second, the current situation is highly anomalous, and some exceptional measures are needed to restore normalcy. Finally, the new rules must allow for financial markets’ inherent instability.
...
Most importantly, some extraordinary measures need to be invented to bring conditions back to normal. The EU’s fiscal charter compels member states annually to reduce their public debt by one-twentieth of the amount by which it exceeds 60% of GDP. I propose that member states jointly reward good behavior by taking over that obligation.
The member states have transferred their seignorage rights to the ECB, and the ECB is currently earning about €25 billion ($32.7 billion) annually. The seignorage rights have been estimated by Willem Buiter of Citibank and Huw Pill of Goldman Sachs, working independently, to be worth between €2-3 trillion, because they will yield more as the economy grows and interest rates return to normal. A Special Purpose Vehicle (SPV) owning the rights could use the ECB to finance the cost of acquiring the bonds without violating Article 123 of the Lisbon Treaty.
Should a country violate the fiscal compact, it would wholly or partly forfeit its reward and be obliged to pay interest on the debt owned by the SPV. That would impose tough fiscal discipline, indeed.
By rewarding good behavior, the fiscal compact would no longer constitute a deflationary debt trap, and the outlook would radically improve. In addition, to narrow the competitiveness gap, all members should be able to refinance their existing debt at the same interest rate. But that would require greater fiscal integration, so it would have to be phased in gradually.
The Bundesbank will never accept these proposals, but the European authorities ought to take them seriously. The future of Europe is a political issue, and thus is beyond the Bundesbank’s competence to decide.
And incidentally speaking of the Bundesbank, recall back in December Zero Hedge's view on the endgame via "Has The Imploding European Shadow Banking System Forced The Bundesbank To Prepare For Plan B?" where we said, focusing on the TARGET2 issue :
the Bundesbank, if disambiguated from the ECB, where it currently is accountable for funding a major portion of deficit nations' funding deficiency, would regain its status as the world highest quality monetary institution. And going back to the beginning, it is the Bundesbank which is effectively depleting "good money" in exchange for "bad" either in the form of undervalued collateral through the repo markets, or soon to be devalued fiat.
Here one has to keep in mind the primary prerogative of the Buba - keep inflation low. If that means detaching from a failing currency, or halting asset-liability matching in which it hands out good money in exchange for worthless assets, so be it.
Which is why another interpretation of the ECB's proposal is not to bring the ECB as a lender of only resort closer to the peripheral, deficit nations, but to commence proceedings for severing the umbilical cord of the Bundesbank with a Eurozone which is doomed in all but the most optimistic eyes. Bringing us to our question: for anyone wondering what the future of the Eurozone is, should they merely observe what steps the German central bank is stealthily starting to take. Because if indeed the Buba wants to have as little as possible with Europe, what does that mean for the EUR, and for Europe itself?
Four months later, here comes Deutsche Bank's Thomas Mayer with "Why the Buba Wants To Exit." Excerpts (full link):
Why the Buba wants to exit
Recent data illustrate the above analysis. For the last year, more than three quarters of ECB loans have gone to banks in Southern European countries and Ireland. More recently, the liberal use of long-term ECB loans in France and Germany has temporarily reduced the share of the GIIPS countries in ECB lending. At the same time, the positions of national central banks in the euro area’s interbank payment system Target 2 show that these loans have helped to fund cumulated balance-of-payments deficits of the non triple-A rated countries versus the triple-A rated countries (Germany, Netherlands, Finland and Luxembourg). The latter country group has lent the former so far more than EUR900bn (Table 1). As long as the liberal supply of ECB funds to the countries with balance-of-payments deficits continues, the Target positions are likely to increase further. Until recently, liquidity flowing from the balance-of-payments deficit countries to surplus countries tended to be re-deposited at the national central banks of the latter. However, as Chart 2 for the case of Germany shows, liquidity has started to flow out into the non-financial sector (with the German banking sector turning again into a net debtor to the Bundesbank).
The case for exiting
By mid-year governments are scheduled to have completed the new EMU governance structure, including a new treaty on fiscal policy and a permanent crisis management mechanism. According to the governments, this is it. No further measures are presently being contemplated. Against this background, the recent suggestion by the President of the Bundesbank that the ECB begin a gradual exit from its non-standard measures and thus to raise pressure for balance sheet adjustment seems only logical. As of mid-year it is up to governments to restructure or unwind insolvent banks and to the permanent crisis management mechanism to provide adjustment funding to governments and banks, when needed. The present dual and contradictory support scheme—conditional lending under IMF/EU adjustment programmes and unconditional, unlimited lending under the ECB’s special refi operations—ought to be reconciled and merged into a unified support scheme.
It is, of course, possible that the new EMU architecture will not be able to deal with the remaining adjustment challenges. Even after its recent extension to some EUR800bn, the combined resources of the EFSF / ESM are unlikely to be sufficient to fund Italy or Spain in case markets shut down for these countries. But this would require further repair of the EMU architecture and could not justify an open-ended involvement of the ECB in propping up insolvent banks or governments. As we have argued before, we would favour the transformation of the ESM into a true European Monetary Fund with the mandate to implement and fund adjustment programmes for countries, facilitate debt restructuring for insolvent countries, and deal with systemically relevant banking sector problems. As part of a unified support scheme, this EMF would have access to ECB credit as a measure of last resort to deal with systemically risky liquidity crunches, whereby the final decision to extend credit would lie with the ECB.
Conclusions
The ECB’s non-standard monetary policy measures were taken to deal with problems in the financial sector and not to extend monetary policy easing beyond interest rate cuts, as was the case in the US and UK. Hence, these measures should logically only be continued as long as they promote efficient adjustment in the financial sector. The present regime of fixed rate, full allocation refinancing operations tends to ease the adjustment burden in the financial sector of countries with internal and external deficits and to shift the costs of rebalancing the balance of payments of EMU member countries to balance of payments surplus countries. Relative prices are adjusted by pushing prices in the surplus countries up without exerting downward pressure on prices in the deficit countries. With a new fiscal pact and permanent crisis management mechanism in place as of the middle of this year, it is now up to governments to engineer a more symmetrical adjustment. Should the new EMU architecture prove insufficient, governments should take the necessary additional steps and refrain from enlisting the ECB in making up for these deficiencies, in our view.
Which, alas won't happen, and the Bundesbank will be even more on the hook. Just as we further elaborated in "Explaining The European €2.5 Trillion Liquidity Catch 22 Closed Loop." So yeah: tin foil hat conspiracy and all that jazz.
»
- 30832 reads
- Printer-friendly version
- Send to friend
- advertisements -
he's just a pickled turd
Quite possibly the greatest investor in history; if only we had more of his kind I feel humanity would be in a far better state...
indeed not!
If GOLD had been used as collateral in a bilateral exchange agreement between countries none of this would have happened because those "rational expectations" would never have existed in the first place.
FUCK PAPER, or it will FUCK YOU!
I mean really... does George Soros really beLIEve "george soros" when he speaks? He's talking about "Quantative Easing" and saying that in Europe it has never been done..... how many times has there been hyperinflation in Europe? Loads of times! Either Soros is one stupid monkey or he is a liar.
(7:00 - 8:00)
The cockroaches are running out of places to hide their ill-gotten gains. Their whole shitty system is going to collapse around them and there's nothing they can do about it, thank God.
Once again, the German economic miracle is coming to the end. The present german leaders and political parties are just another sham for the City Zionist Banking Mafia families.
Just look at the major "German" banks. None of them is German.
Looks like Soros is becoming a ghost.
Just say the truth Soros....Europe without her colonial exploitations is nothing but museums and tourist traps for new money.
Global imperialism is America's game now.....until China take over with their STEM hacker army
AldousHuxley
It is very interesting. Back in late 1930s, J. Stalin said that without colonies the West would collapse.
Stalin also hated the Zionist Banking Mafia. The purpose of the 1938 secret agreement between Stalin & Hitler was to destroy the Banking Mafia. Unfortunately, the Stalin world domination intentions led to the WW II.
So you're saying fleas, ticks, lice, bedbugs, mosquitoes, and intestinal parasites are good for a body?
They stimulate the 7 year itch.
Looks like we have 2 mad maxes on this thread
Soros is an intriguing charter.... and compared to other men of his ilk, (various Robber Barons and bankers in history) he is unique, kinda of a black sheep.
IMO people who stay in the "wealth accumulation game" till they have amassed more resources than they could use in 100 or more life times are NOT "great" or "good" people.
Once you get into the hundred million range or actually a lot less for most people, you really can't spend it fast enough to need more. A lot more money than that has only one major benefit, which is power. When you have billions, you can make things happen on a national or even international scale. People who crave power at that level are generally sociopaths, or at least complete assholes.
that's because capitalism places capital as the ultimate reward.
society needs to figure out something other than capital for her elites, so people can move on to another game once they have enough cash points.
Banksters are bad role models. These psychos work crazy hours into retirement just so that they can get another million into their 8 figure net worth while missing out connecting with grandchildren, wives, family, society, giving back, etc.
that's why europe still maintains royalty. Rich, powerful, and famous can move onto shaping society's culture, traditions, moral ideals rather than spending your 60th birthday blabbering some bullshit at Davos world economic forum.
Thus America has tons of billionaires but shit culture, shit society, shit morals, shit food, shit music, etc. and elites spend their time and money in Europe instead.
Soros, you are old. plenty of money but limited time to live. Economic forums are the wrong place to pursue self-actualization.
capitalism places capital as the ultimate reward.
LOL... not how I define capitalism,,, not even close.
Then define it for us. Not baiting you, I'm genuinely interested. I fear that no matter how well intended we might wish for capitalism to be, that Marx was most likely right about where it ends up. Though capitalism with sound money is vastly different from finance fascism which is what we have now. Anarcho-something is the right answer, I think, but not sure how we get there. Why can't we all just get along.
in history it seems the rich and powerful left art and architecture as monuments to their passing. what will this guy leave behind?
Yes, and just whom in the Euro scheme has had more input than this maggot? His good cop routine was dead with his Color Revolutions and the rest that would pay his bets on gombit failure.
Soros must be the first to get the treatment that he prescribes for all other gombit maggts.
Talk the book forever.
Soros made his money with Jim Rogers in the Quantum commodity hedge fund or something like that. Rogers was the analyst and Soros the trader. Rogers was the investing genius, Soros just happened to be there. He is not that good. In fact he is pretty crap at it.
Soros is most famous for his single-day gain of US$1 billion on September 16, 1992, which he made by short selling the British pound.
Read more: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/g/soros.asp#ixzz1s3yQPQPM
Soros is just a Rothchild banking family agent. One of their front-men. It is all.
More that 100 years ado, JP Morgan has played the similar role.
The same is true for our belove FED Chief Bernanke. He is not running the show. He is just a front-man for the real FED owners.
Yep.
To me...Soros is most famous for selling his soul to the devil at a very early age.
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
KROFT: (Voiceover) And you watched lots of people get shipped off to the death camps.
Mr. SOROS: Right. I was 14 years old. And I would say that that's when my character was made.
KROFT: In what way?
Mr. SOROS: That one should think ahead. One should understand and–and anticipate events and when–when one is threatened. It was a tremendous threat of evil. I mean, it was a–a very personal experience of evil.
KROFT: My understanding is that you went out with this protector of yours who swore that you were his adopted godson.
Mr. SOROS: Yes. Yes.
KROFT: Went out, in fact, and helped in the confiscation of property from the Jews.
Mr. SOROS: Yes. That's right. Yes.
KROFT: I mean, that's–that sounds like an experience that would send lots of people to the psychiatric couch for many, many years. Was it difficult?
Mr. SOROS: Not–not at all. Not at all. Maybe as a child you don't–you don't see the connection. But it was–it created no–no problem at all.
KROFT: No feeling of guilt?
Mr. SOROS: No.
KROFT: For example that, 'I'm Jewish and here I am, watching these people go. I could just as easily be there. I should be there.' None of that?
Mr. SOROS: Well, of course I c–I could be on the other side or I could be the one from whom the thing is being taken away. But there was no sense that I shouldn't be there, because that was–well, actually, in a funny way, it's just like in markets–that if I weren't there–of course, I wasn't doing it, but somebody else would–would–would be taking it away anyhow. And it was the–whether I was there or not, I was only a spectator, the property was being taken away. So the–I had no role in taking away that property. So I had no sense of guilt.
The man has no soul...no guilt...no shame...no remorse...just the cold calculus of his own survival at any cost to others.
Textbook narcissist. And he made a fortune. Go figure.....
He's a very cunning and ruthless man.
Someone I would not turn my back on in a room full of people, even though everything I owned was just the clothes on my back.
But good news is he gives lots and lots of money to your leftist buddies..
But good news is he gives lots and lots of money to your leftist buddies..
Narcissist? Sure
Textbook? Psychopath is much closer to the mark.
Most pyschopaths are successful as numerous studies have illuminated over the years. No surprise there. They have no guilt, no empathy, and an insatiable need for more power. They shit on those below them and only respect those with more power than them.
If they don't go the 'Ted Bundy' route, they go the George Soros route (or GS wannabe route). The vast majority of successful financiers, bankers, and politicians test positive for psychopathy. How else could you steal pensions, empower the ponzi, lie to clients, and take short positions on events that your energy could otherwise be spent trying to prevent?
George Soros can't die fast enough for me... but there are legions behind him.
Nmewn: And complete hypocrite by which I mean you, also says later in this thread: "I don't believe anyone holds the German people in contempt of anything (I don't anyways). Will we (the Irish-Scot-German...its a long line, I'm a mutt myself...lol) crack macabre jokes and dark humor?...yes.
It is the willingness of people (any people) to follow an insane leader doing or saying insane things that we (I) marvel and shudder at."
So basically Soros was evil for not opposing the German people, who you do not hold in contempt in the least. Do you ever actually listen to yourself?
No, you fucking imbecile.
I hold Soros in contempt for not opposing the nazis which he understood then and understands to this very day as evil. Read the transcript and understand what he is saying to the world about himself. What made him what he is today, he takes the easy way out...always.
You really sittin around sayin every German who had to swear allegiance to "Der Fuhrer" (or die or be imprisoned by his law) were actual nazis?
Only a socialist douchebag scratching around for guilt deliverance would say such a thing...and you just did.
You frankly deplete my supply of +1... Bravo
Nice try.
He was fourteen, and you hold him to the standard of standing up to the Nazis. But you forgive all of the adult Germans because they were just following orders from the Nazis. You have exposed yourself like your friend Econonics666 while he supports himself with government handouts.
You did not recognize good & evil at fourteen?
And what part of..."It is the willingness of people (any people) to follow an insane leader doing or saying insane things that we (I) marvel and shudder at."...are you having a problem processing in your brain...exactly?
He (Soros) took a job with the "Jewish Council" voluntarily. Do you know what that organization was in Hungary at the time? If you don't, he certainly did after his father explained it to him when he showed his father a list of names. The names on the list were Hungarian-Jewish lawyers.
It was well after that, that he posed as a Catholic and a "godson" to another to escape scrutiny himself.
Were the names on his list (in your opinion) good or evil LTER?...I expect an answer to this question. It gives me insight to your morality...so answer carefully.
And don't think that I don't know what this is really about you snake...in your rush to find fault with me for past conflicts between us in this forum, you wind up defending purposeful, premeditated evil. You take this position (no doubt) simply because you and he (and Nazis) spring from the same poisoned well of thought and philosophy.
In short, I understand the difference between Nazis/Fascists & run of the mill Germans quite well. You apparently do not.
////////////////////////////////
No answer eh?...maybe you can get another ID to answer for you ;-)
Humanity most certaintly would be in a far worse state if there were more of Soros' kind. His only concern is to enrich himself, with no regard for the welfare of anyone but himself. Humans suffer in direct relation to how much power and control Soros and his ilk have. No thanks, not interested in anything he has to say, or anyone, like MAX, that is so dim-witted to think soros is a good for humankind.
Hardly anyone here thinks Soros is "good". But he has access to powers far greater than himself. Therefore, he's worth listening to. Ditto Brzezinski and others of this Type.
So, because he has "access to powers" he's "worth listenting to"? Do you really believe that he or those powers are going to tip you off? What, out of the goodness of their hearts?
Have you bumped your god damn head?
Hell has a special place for the likes of Soros.
And a psycho you are, indeed!
The only blessing is that Soros wasn't ever an investor, and as such will not tarnish the trade (pun intended). Furthermore, we won't have more of his kind anytime soon because the OWS crowd can't make 5 bucks let alone 15 billion. And lastly, he's on his death bed, one foot in grave et. al. so I'm not going to lose any sleep over this guy, powdered sugar or not...a turd is just that, a turd.
Soros s**** on the ashes of humanity. His world plan is tyrannical and global in scope. He has no compunction about levelling states and so too the good efforts of humanity. Soros and his "Open Society" framework are ultimately tied in with all the other tyrants he plays Heads to the Bushes Tails on the same coin. Mark my words there all in this together shepperding the sheep as the wolves they are on left amd right.
Did you forget the /sarc?
nothing new on his insight.
12 years ago, everyone and their dog knew that the euro project would end in pan-european all out war.
Well I did not know that 12 years ago. Seemed like a worthwhile experiment.
2008 showed us (me) reality.
Old farts stink twice as much
LOL, but I am NOT going to overthink that one...
What website is ZH cross-posted on to get all these nutbars from? ZH comments section has somehow been turned over to brain dead Glenn Beck apostles.
nutbars? brain dead Glenn Beck apostles? There are many, many sites to research soros ..recommend you read them asshole.
There are many, many sites to research soros ..recommend you read them asshole.
A valuable use of one's time I'm sure.
Here's a novel idea - how about commenting on the validity of the ideas presented in the article rather than some idiot conspiracy theory completely unrelated to the post (if the post had been attributed to "anonymous trader" doubtless you pea brains wouldn't be going on about Soros the Anti-Christ or whatever other stupid ideas about him as that is, at best, totally separate from the opinion he is expressing).
>> how about commenting on the validity of the ideas presented in the article rather than some idiot conspiracy theory completely unrelated to the post
It's not going to happen. As soon as I saw Soros in the heading I knew it would be a right wing looney fest in the comments sections. Not that ZH hasn't become "the" spot for right wing loonies to hang anyway.
You're looking for fish amongst the treetops...
And you are fishing without a hook.
A valuable use of one's time I'm sure.
YEAH, WHY BOTHER BEING AN INFORMED INDIVIDUAL BEFORE JUST POSTING YOUR B.S.? Just another one of those posters who seems to think they are innately intelligent.
What i want to know is if this clever man predicted the demise of the Euro when it was introduced.
the audacity of the NWO has been and continues to be bitch slapped....
Who is about 400% smarter than most in the room.
A slime bag who wins big on human misery.
They don't call him "The Black Hand" for nothing.
A slime bag who wins big on human misery....
Given that many of the commentators around here are praying for modern society to collapse, I'd think he'd be warmly welcomed here.
By the way, could you explain how he "wins big on human misery"? Try not to quote Glenn Beck in your response.
Max Fischer, Civis Mundi
Soros had the best time of his life turning over fellow Jews to the Nazis. He is a swell fellow indeed.
Absolutely despicable comment. I told you not to quote Glenn Beck. Soros was 12 years old when the Nazi's were slaughtering everyone around him. Got anything on Soros past the age of 12 that's factual? Max Fischer, Civis Mundi
and what do you know about the old f*uck soros?
This quote is not from Glenn Beck. It is from a video interview of Soros.
I've seen the clip and he was gleeful in his description of helping the Nazis find Jews.
There is a special place in hell reserved for the asshole.
And, why wouldn't he be gleeful. When you're expropriating other peoples wealth and savings, does it really matter how you go about doing it. If the means achieve the ends you've accomplished your goal.
Pure Evil knows pure evil when he sees it! - Ned
I believe you on that, I am no ad hominem advocate; but a kleptocrat like Soros, insider information specialist, left hand of a capitalist cabal; even if he took out the right hand of UK monetary cricket players club in 1992; is still a member of the Atreus club. Bohemian grove, bilderburger, resuscitated >>CONgress of Vienna member; those who ran the pax Britannica club from 1814-1914; then were cloned into the pax americana post 1945 uber-alles brigade, honed by Henry K and the Rockafella club; after 1971 BW revocal into a new configuration. They built the US fiat, shitty-titty, runaway, screw ball, midnight express train, on which we all have tickets.
Don't confuse Max with facts. He prefers to be ignorant and in the dark.
I think he really prefers to be a bootlicker of the globalist central bankers new world order. Seig Heil the new 4th Reich and Fabian National Socialism.
Max Fischer "..could you explain how he "wins big on human misery?"
Yep, Soros is a key financial backer of that inept massive socialist failure, President Obumma ..the biggest spender in human history with empty hands to show for it
Change you can't believe in (or see) for the size of the fuking bill
Could Soros or Bummas other key economic advisor, Jon Corzine, pick up the bill as no other sod wants to given the shite/invisible results
"Soros was 12 years old when the Nazi's were slaughtering everyone around him."
Actually, he was 14. Wonder how he found that time of his life "exciting" and "exhilarating" while everyone else was being slaughtered?
Soros makes his money when he collapses the currencies he has bet against....he has made his monies from tearing down and destruction...he is now investing against the future of this country and will make billions more when we collapse.he is a parasite
how many times can you be wrong in this post?
12? nope
from glenn Beck? nope
despicable? well blame the 60 minutes interview and Soros himself
I read some interesting stuff about him years ago here:
http://www.network54.com/Forum/155335/thread/1025834278/last-1104286783/...
Did Glenn Beck make that one up?
Since you're going to end up in the same place, just interview him yourself.
Indeed, he has stated this in interviews. "someone was going to steal it, it might as well be me". The moral compass of the current White house.
From past experience, we know Georgi has his positions on. Now, he's ust nudging the world to fulfill his further criminal plans.
You know, as a guy who is a quarter German (or more precisely, Austrian) Jew, I can't let this bullshit pass by yet again. And since the other 75% is Irish, fighting is like breathing- I can decide not to do it all I like, but that won't change a damn thing.
I'm not going to get in a big debate over this, but the Germans are good people... The only things I'm going to say about it publically are as follows:
1) If we are all manipulated by propiganda, why buy into this particular piece of it? Is it because Spielburg made a very sad (and excellent, no question there) movie about it?
2) History always has been, and always will be, written by the victors.
3) If you're a Christian, go back to your Bible, and ask yourselves what fruits the Zionist experiment have yielded. Then apply the same metrics to the country of Germany. Do it honestly, and then ask yourself what is the most likely course for real history to have taken. Who is more likely to inter their fellow men and exterminate them like insects?
Question everything, especially those things you accept as axioms. I have, and if it came down to a choice between Germany and Israel, I would back the German people 110% of the time. For a bunch of supposed traders, I am continually shocked at how little "Cui bono?" is applied.
Edit: I don't give two shits about Geroge Soros one way or the other. The above is a defense of German national character- not one guy who probably is completely corrupt.
I don't believe anyone holds the German people in contempt of anything (I don't anyways). Will we (the Irish-Scot-German...its a long line, I'm a mutt myself...lol) crack macabre jokes and dark humor?...yes.
It is the willingness of people (any people) to follow an insane leader doing or saying insane things that we (I) marvel and shudder at.
So you don't blame the German people for surviving and not opposing Hitler, but you detest Soros for surviving and not opposing him? Hold on, I think I can find it. ;-[ That's the clueless hyporcrite winking guy.
Soros is Hungarian. He was also a Joo. He sold both out to save his own skin and is now an atheist.
How long before he sells you out?
But every German who sold out to save his or her own skin is A Okay with the winkmeister. Clown.
Not what I said at all. I don't detest Soros at all- I don't know him, and from what I've seen, I know just enough not to judge him. I do try to be precise when I write, but there will always be gaps- it's the nature of trying to balance being concise and being complete. What Soros has done since WWII may or may not make him a horrible person- I don't know, and don't care. Quite frankly, he's just old enough that he's going to die soon no matter what I think of him, so I'm not going to waste my time researching whether or not I hate the guy.
If you prefer, I could drag things out Aristotle-style, but I'm pretty sure no one would care to read it, and I get my fill of that every day as it is. If you have a specific point, and I get back to it before it's terribly stale, I'd be willing to fill in the gaps.
Oh yes, and there is this:
I don't give two shits about Geroge Soros one way or the other. The above is a defense of German national character- not one guy who probably is completely corrupt.
What about my post suggested I give a shit what you said?
the difference being most Germans felt remorse, deep regret and shame at what they allowed ..they're still working off that shame contributing to the EU and Jewish Foundations
Soros shows none of that, in fact he's back funding ruinous socialism and bankrolling Marxists like President Bumma as did the JP Morgans of Hitler and Rockerfellas with Trotsky
it's almost like Soros enjoys dysfunctional, deranged, socio-economically destructive politics ...he's fuelling it through his myriad of charities
Obviously he never worked out where the "evil" came from in WWII ..sociopathic bankers funding sociopathic politicans ..a little bit of history repeating (on Soros)
Sounds like you need to do a little remedial work on George Soros.
Why don't you spend the summer getting up to speed. We'll be here when you get back.
See ya!
Hope this helps,
George Soros
Born: 12-Aug-1930
Birthplace: Budapest, Hungary
Gender: Male
Religion: Atheist
Race or Ethnicity: White
Sexual orientation: Straight
Occupation: Business, Philanthropist
Party Affiliation: Democratic/money,
Nationality: United States
Executive summary: Financial speculator
Hungarian-American immigrant who made his fortune in America, and provided seed funding for the Open Society Institute and the Center for American Progress. Gave $100M to Human Rights Watch and $1M to Media Matters for America in 2010. Widely but incorrectly credited by right-wing sources as having funded Air America Radio and virtually every other left-leaning or liberal cause.
Father: Tivadar Schwartz (attorney, d. 1968)
Mother: Erzebet Szucz
Brother: Paul
Wife: Annaliese Witschak (m. 1960, div., two sons, one daughter)
Son: Robert (b. 1964)
Daughter: Andrea (b. 1965)
Son: Jonathan (b. 1971)
Wife: Susan Weber (m. 19-Jun-1983, two sons)
Son: Alexander
Son: Gregory
University: BS, London School of Economics (1952)
Soros Fund Management
Quantum Fund (1969-2000)
Carlyle Group
Al Franken for Senate
American Academy of Arts and Sciences
Bilderberg Group
Center for American Progress
Citizens for a Moratorium on Federal Executions
Dean for America
Democratic Congressional Campaign Committee
Democratic Senatorial Campaign Committee
Drug Policy Alliance Board of Directors
Friends of Hillary
Gore 2000
Human Rights Watch
Institute for International Economics Board of Directors
International Academy of Humanism Laureate
International Crisis Group Executive Committee
John Kerry for President
McCain 2000
Media Matters for America
MoveOn.org
New Leadership for America PAC
Obama for America
Obama for Illinois
Open Society Institute Founder
Insider Trading Convicted 2002
Naturalized US Citizen 18-Dec-1961
Esperanto speakers
Hungarian Ancestry
Jewish Ancestry
Official Website:
http://www.nndb.com/people/293/000023224/
Thanks for sharing Dapper Dan. ;-) They now need to add Scytl to the list.
An excellent compilation...I'll add the Tides Center.
I agree about the strange obsession of some ZH posters with violence, societal collapse and the overthrow of the American government. But Soros is such a hypocrite. He would never live in the kind of world he espouses. (Odd that all these 1% retain all the trappings of prestiege and royalty despite their breast beating in public.) He's the Michael Moore of Finance, getting rich on misery and, oh yeah, manipulating markets. He's the typical liberal 1% (think Kennedy, Kerry, Corzine, Edwards, etc) always whining about the little guy from the steps of his vacation home.
You reveal the Red Team inability to understand that most self-described liberals are not anti-wealth. It is the same mentality that spawned the indescribably stupid slam of calling someone a "limousine liberal," as if a liberal in a limousine is the ultimate hypocrisy. Perhaps some liberals are indeed anti wealth, but the vast majority are not. Most simply believe that there should be balance, that oligarchs will trample and abuse the little guy if there are not rules and regulations to stop them, and that having a middle class is a desirable thing for society. Most liberals are not communists. Now back to your Fox and Friends.
Most liberals are not anti-wealth, so long as the wealth is theirs. The rules and regulations these liberal oligarchs put on us are specially designed to take from the deserving earners and distribute to themselves and other underserving scum, all in the name of social welfare, of course. Now back to your self-diluded dreams and fantasies, however you choose to channel such rubish.
The rules and regulations these liberal oligarchs put on us are specially designed to take from the deserving earners and distribute to themselves and other underserving scum...
So the poor have gotten richer and the rich have gotten poorer? It's hilarious to see what sort of bizarre interpretations of history/facts you have to believe to sustain all the right-wing, bullshit propaganda in your head. As if the problem in this country is that the distribution of money flows down.... lol. Idiot.
It takes a special sort of asshole to call the poor and down-trodden "underdeserving scum." Poor people..... YUCK!! Poor people are LOSERS and they deserve to DIE!!
Obviously, you're a libertarian. From my research, I've found that the most vile Republicans usually morph into asshole libertarians. After that - once you've reached maximum hatred, bitterness and cynicism - people usually start to hoard guns, ammo and food in underground bunkers and plan their assault on the rest of society.
Max Fischer, Civis Mundi
Max, if you won't invest in lead...at least buy a good pair of running shoes. Day the EBT cards stop working, you and all the other urban CosmicLibs will need them desperately. Congoids going to roast you and yours over a slow fire.
You're projecting again....
I really love you guys. For decades, you worshipped Reagan and his ilk who built a military machine that will make your lead completely worthless when things go to hell. You voted for him. Didn't you.
Correct. And I enjoyed watching RR 86 the Red Empire that lib cocksuckers like you were busy enabling. Now it's time to get rid of the Zionist Empire...and when it goes, U go too.
Good luck with the stealth bomber Reagan funded to make your handgun or shotgun or M16 or whatever completely useless. Your handle of Fascist is beyond silly. Go Red Team!
Ignorant is the word that best describes you.
No, the poor have not gotten richer, but the rich certaintly have. Not hard to accomplish if one has the means to legal theft. Max and others of his ilk claim to love the poor and down-trodden when in fact it is these that give the least to charity (of their own money, that is}. When people learn that all that is necessary to get a paycheck is to suck off the govt tit, guess what Max Fischer, that's what they do! Your idea of compassion is so completely upside-down that there is little hope you can ever understand the fundamentals of justice and the compassion that justice truly distributes to all mankind. And yes, guns and ammo will be necessary for survival in the days ahead, for protection against unjust people like yourself and others who now think it is a right to steal.
Civis Mundi
But actually...
Civis Mom's Basement
"Money, it's a crime;
Share it fairly, but don't take a slice of my pie!" -- Pink Floyd
If you truly want balance, then alleviate some suffering:
http://www.worldvision.org (arguably, the most efficient charity in existence); then quit trying to justify Big Brother's redistribution (at the point of a gun!) efforts.
If you believe that all government created things are evil and the equivalent to taking by violence, then stop using the internet which was created and still supported by public universities. And stop using roads, almost all major airports, you GPS which would not exist but for NASA, the courts when you have a dispute with a private party, etc.
"Most liberals are not communists."
Correct...true liberals are not. They couldn't be if they are classic liberals.
But progressives are statist socialists...and as everyone knows, a pregnant socialist always gives birth to a bouncing baby communist ;-)
I really enjoy the complete lack of substance in your posts, followed by the knowing wink. Quite telling of your personality.
At least I have one ;-)
I didn't realize that Douchebag was a personality type. My bad. Winking douche.
Such an angry little liberal.. I guess we can all look forward to the Soros family losing their entire fortune to the death tax which you have gleefully endorsed many times. What was the wealth level at which you endorsed virtual confiscation, 1 million? That should sort out Georges boys and take care of most liberal hypocrites.
But since most of you are too self absorded to actually bother procreating time is probably our best weapon against your ilk..
LetThemEatRand - a society/economy without Govt is massively richer and more free from the get-go. If i could do without Govt intervention in roads, education, housing, energy, healthcare, geo-politics (all of which Govt has turned into a collosal shambles) I'd start tomorrow
you Statist arsewipes just don't know your history, your current affairs or your peanut sized brains are pickled in idealism
wake up one day and see what a shithole Govts have made of the world. Reaity, remember that toerag?
Really?
STFU
Soros is probably going 3-D with Cameron on a " Titanic" reenactment! Carl Icahn sold those " Lionsgate" shares too soon!
Soros dosent give a fuck, he probably just out pumpin his book, shortin the euro. evil old dinosaur.
Soros would prefer 17 small targets instead of one too big for his guns.
I expect he is correct. Go ahead bet against him.lol
Soros states the obvious. I find nothing difficult to accept here.
Soros has a political agenda. He undoubtedly thinks he's helping mankind with his central plan. I personally believe the world would be better off when he just shuts up and retires or is otherwise not with us.
Printing money is not a free lunch. It trades default risk for inflation, which is worse.
Well, actually, Soro's is the fourth Anti-Christ helping to usher in National-Socialism and the new 4th Reich.
@ Narina-
You hit the proverbial nail on the head. No one, and I mean no one at all, bases the entirity of their existance on the ideal of doing evil. Every actor in this f'ed up situation thinks they are doing the right thing.
As I like to do, I'll bring it down from the mountain top and into a more intimate setting-
Where I work, I, along with four others, write all the instructions and create all the processes for the J6Ps on the shop floor to follow. We have endless debates about the best way to do this, and it's never what the guys on the floor think it is. I'm actually the one with the lowest opion of "regular folk," but I always advocate maxium freedom- based on the theory that if we allow people to behave IAW their own natures, we can make better decisions when directing their actions, because the feedback is not artifically corrupted. I've seen central planning fail again and again, and even though I don't have a high opinion of people, I do believe that even a fool can make a decision that works- even if it is not optimal. Even more importantly, analizing the decisions they make allows us to assign tasks appropriately.
The others tend to fall into (what I consider to a be a) trap of thinking that we need to speicfy and define even the smallest actions, forgetting that no one, including those who make the call, is ever perfect. I know the others, along with their thought processes and underlying motivations, and I am 100% confident that while we may disagree, each person on the team is doing what they think is right for the long-term growth and survival of our company.
No one ever does anything evil for the sake of it- every action you see is the result of someone with a different perspective doing what they think is right. That doesn't make them right- it just means that the motivation may not be what you think it is. Even when someone traps another person and sets them up for failure, it's generally an attempt to protect everyone else from what is perceieved to be a mal-adjusted personality type or thought process that is resistant to correction.
As with anything, this isn't intended to be a solution or action item- it's just another way of looking at things, and an attempt to keep us all from falling into group tunnel-vision. These comments have more punch than the articles themselves, at least in my experience, and ZeroHedge is not the result of the Durdens' opinions- it is the result of how we react to facts collectively. Lot of positive and negative re-enforcement going on here, and I don't know that the way things have been heading lately have been helping anyone.
It's easy to say "Silver Bitchez" and count your up arrows, but let's think for ourselves people. Engaging in a two-minute hate because the bell rang and made you drool isn't helping anything. I much prefer to see people stand their ground and say "Honi soit qui mal y pense." Even when I don't agree, at least I know that there is a real person on the other end of the line.
If I were given a finite amount of "Get out of Hell Free!" cards, HOW would I decide WHO deserved one? I finally came to the conclusion that that is a power I'm NOT competent to wield -- there ain't enough intelligence between my ears to do it!
"Judge not, lest ye be judged."
Agreed.
Though I'll insert this- If there is such a thing as hell, it would the most striking indictment of Jehovah that I will have ever seen. I'm a religious man, but one of that stripe.
Soros is a pos.
so what is the world going to use as money in the future? Gold? Silver? other precious metals? USD? Special Depository Reciepts (SDR's)?
How long can the game keep going? Credit credit credit, the financial system is literally doomed...
People should learn from history the lessons of credit
It will either be 'Pink Slime' or this 'MintChip'.
nah, it will be the oldest currencies in the universe....older that PMs: hookers and blow
So, that's why Obummer headed down to Columbia.
I hope he's able to get some good blow, along with some pure Columbian nose candy.
Did any one hear whether Moochella stayed back in the District of Cocaine?
Can't go vagabonding about with the ole ball and chain holding ya back.
Let's hope for an OD with all the SS guys out fuckin' hookers and unable to respond.
Colombia is a country in South America, the one to which Obama is headed, the one in which his armed goons have been conducting their silly scheme.
Columbia, among other things, is an Ivy-League university in New York, and a Space Shuttle that regrettably was destroyed during re-entry on a mission in 2003.
Better to make the mistake on the anonymity of the interwebs than with a real Colombian in person.
Here's a novel plan. Each indebted Euro country goes back to their own currency prior to joining this failed social experiment called the EU / Euro. Float their own currency again and payoff their own debt with their own currency. Renegotiate their debt with their creditors and institute sustainable economic policy. Austerity and growth can be managed together . How you ask? By downsizing all government services from national to local.
That's not a novel plan, it's two old ones.
Can you apply those principles to California?
IMHO, Georgie is part of the problem....his $$$$ seems to be conveniently spent on various organizations...Media Matters, the Spanish company that will be counting our election votes..Petrobras...and on and on. This old coot bets on collapsing economies. With that all i can say is F*ck you Soros!
http://ncrenegade.com/editorial/2012-election/
These 'suggestions' are entirely through the lens of an accredited financial jihadist. Vulture George needs some 'less competitive' country to bleed itself into a hyper-inflationary spiral so he can pick at the carcass.
Clownshoes.
I know you " JUNK" me GeneMarchbanks .
You make some very astute comments! I should give you more praise! I appologise for the lack of recognition.
Soro's could always insert good ole Ben Bernank up his ass as a hemorrhoidal suppository and take over the reins at the Fed.
Ok ya little prick! Let's dance! My family is german! ASS WIPE!
I think we´ll soon be in a situation when it´s either eurobond or euromeltdown.
IMF _ EFSF/ESM- ECB/BIS+ Swaps @ .065 Basis points?
Neither will happen. In the case of the latter, you'll see a meltdown beyond anything you've ever seen in global FX markets probably triggering a run on all other 'assets'.
Enjoy that Swing trade. FWIW I agree whole heartedly with you.
Big fricking whanker. Shorting the Euro on one hand, calling for socialism in the U.S. with other.
Where is the NYT's expose on him?
surfersd, start with Media Matters..funded by no other...soros.
eur/aud eur/gbp sgy/mex cad/jyp ) you are a mindless dip shit basement boy!
No mention of energy being central to Europe's problems. Soros knows shit.
About time for you to move on to the next life. You caused a lot of human suffering. You won't be missed.
fuck him
A spider? Really? Whos' side are you really on?
Not even with VP Biden's corkscrew.
From the video he's beginning to look like Emperor Palpatine after he turned into Darth Sidious.
You beat me to it! Remarkable likeness. Did George Lucas use some age advancing graphics software on ol' Georgie ten years ago?
You beat me to it! Spanish spreads! Care to inquire?
For Soros to comment this is ironic; he is part of the hubristic breed of the house of Atreus that has brought this fate to Western civilization. Eurozone is incestuously linked to the US-Japan western Oligarchy trilateral. Its thinning time for West as a whole or Armageddon for the world.
nasty masonic jew...
"Should a country violate the fiscal compact, it would wholly or partly forfeit its reward and be obliged to pay interest on the debt owned by the SPV. That would impose tough fiscal discipline, indeed."
So, umm, who exactly will own this SPV that Soros is suggesting?
Who else. But, of course you already knew the answer.
translation: if you think your counterparty is ok, you're a damned fool...