This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

S&P Reminds Europe Of Its Toxic Catch 22, Warns EFSF Expansion Will Lead To More Sovereign Downgrades, Rendering EFSF Itself Useless

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Finally, little by little, the fog of toddler-like euphoria over any and every most recent European bailout plan is starting to lift, this time with the S&P finally speaking up and reminding everyone of what they already know: namely that an expansion of that now-daily deux ex machina, the EFSF, will "potentially trigger credit rating downgrades in the region, a top Standard & Poor's official warned. David Beers, the head of S&P's sovereign rating group, said it is still too soon to know how European policymakers will boost the European Financial Stability Facility, how effective that will be and its possible credit implications....But he said the various alternatives could have "potential credit implications in different ways," including for leading euro zone countries such as France and Germany." Get that? As Zero Hedge said back on July 21, the European bailout Catch 22 is now once again front and center, namely that any expansion in the EFSF will lead to a downgrade in one of the two Eurocore countries, France or Germany, and should France get cut from AAA (which it will), the entire burden of footing the European bailout bill will fall on Germany. And if Germany is also downgraded to AA, kiss your SPV CDO goodbye, and with it Europe. Which means that while we will hear many more threats by both and against S&P, more posturing that the EFSF will be enhanced to tens if not hundreds of trillions with virtually unlimited leverage, however idiotic those may be, the end result is just one: whether or not Germany risks a full blown government collapse by instituting the only thing that has a chance of containing the crisis - EuroBonds. Of course, shoul those come to be, the German Pirate party will very soon have an absolute majority in the German parliament... and shortly thereafter in various previously unheard of beer halls.

Some choice S&P quotes from Reuters:

"There is some recognition in the euro zone that there is no cheap, risk-free leveraging options for the EFSF any more," Beers told Reuters.

 

"We're getting to a point where the guarantee approach of the sort that the EFSF highlights is running out of road." Beers said in an interview late on Saturday.

 

Beers declined to comment on implications of each of the scenarios for boosting the EFSF.

However, one option could involve backing up the fund with money from the European Central Bank, eliminating the need for politically unpopular cash injections from hard-up European governments.

 

That solution, although potentially reducing the impact on sovereign ratings, would probably increase liabilities in the ECB's balance sheet and possibly leave euro zone countries on the hook for restoring the bank's capital in the event of losses caused by an euro zone default.

 

Leveraging the EFSF could also result in a downgrade of its own AAA credit rating.

 

S&P, which cut Greece's credit rating deeper into junk territory in July, believes European policymakers are also finally realizing that Greece's debt restructuring will take place with significant haircuts.

 

"Therefore, there are going to be some banks that might require additional capital," Beers said.

 

S&P believes, however, that banks can still raise money in the market rather than relying only on government support.

 

"The banks have to go out and talk with potential investors. There have been interesting developments this year, certainly banks in Europe have been raising capital," Beers said in the interview.

 

"If governments are unable to focus on the long-standing impediments to growth, then austerity alone is not going to give you growth," Beers said, citing the case of Italy.

 

He also had a warning for Germany. Many economists, he said, had initially overestimated the country's growth performance for this year and are finally realizing that its fate is "inexorably linked to that of all its neighbors."

So yes. Catch 22 coupled with a lose-lose outcome. And Chinabot is buying the EURUSD, again, why?

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Sun, 09/25/2011 - 18:39 | 1708708 Earl of Chiswick
Earl of Chiswick's picture

That's some catch, that Catch-22.
It's the best there is.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 18:52 | 1708752 nevadan
nevadan's picture

Of course, shoul those come to be, the German Pirate party will very soon have an absolute majority in the German parliament... and shortly thereafter in various previously unheard of beer halls.

 

lol...ka-putsch bitchez

 

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 18:56 | 1708763 nmewn
nmewn's picture

He just couldn't resist could he ;-)

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 20:11 | 1708940 macholatte
macholatte's picture

my personal fav.....

          the fog of toddler-like euphoria

I can hear the theme from Jaws playing in the background

Thumbs up Tyler.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 20:30 | 1708973 Silver Bug
Silver Bug's picture

 

Wow the Globe and Mail is up to their garbage again, David Berman a so called "Journalist" writes a pure hit piece on Gold. It is laughable to say the least, and utterly filled with holes. You can see this nonsense linked:

http://silverliberationarmy.blogspot.com/2011/09/gold-is-in-bubble-pure-nonsense-still.html

When clowns like this start touting Gold, that is your que to get out of dodge!

 

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 22:27 | 1709212 Roger Knights
Roger Knights's picture

That article is also up on Seeking Alpha, here:

http://seekingalpha.com/article/295729-gold-is-for-the-fool-if-you-are-l...

Mine is the first reply.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 01:17 | 1709517 scrappykoala
scrappykoala's picture

I dont see the whole point in is it a safe investment as it will never take a two day beating. I dont care about that. If you can not handle two days of down then you should not be in any market. Im here to make money so two days down is not much of an issue to me or two weeks. I know its going back up and its not going to zero so it is a fantastic thing to ride. These up and down swings of major amounts is a good time to make money in the short term while holding on to it in the long term.

Let me give you an example. Lets say you know for a fact that the s/p is going down for the next 18 months. Ok fine then why not hold on to that position over night in the hopes that next week you make some serious cash if you dont you hold on longer because you know your over all strategy is correct. Hell leverage up. Dont sell by gods all mighty if anything just swithch a few grand at a time and leverage up. NOT ON MARGIN EVER!!!!!

As time goes on you make your money and begin leveraging down.

Not a hard concept and an easy one to live with.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 18:40 | 1708716 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

Just saw DOW futures jump 70 points in 1 second. Ha.

Fascism you can believe in.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 18:43 | 1708730 fdisk
fdisk's picture

Yeap, it was clear on Friday, that's why I didn't short S&P, -

rebound time, nothing goes down in the straight line..

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 18:40 | 1708720 fdisk
fdisk's picture

What?

"the EFSF, will "potentially trigger credit rating downgrades in the region, a top Standard & Poor's official warned."

S&P bitchez scared their downgrade will means shit if EFSF
expanded.. Like EZ have other options? Like what? breakout
and go back to wood burning economy from Siberia?

Is anybody capable of shut the f*ck down this criminal agency?

Too much f* noise.. Go back to company bonds and notes ratings..

Who the f*ck you think you are?

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 18:56 | 1708762 Spitzer
Spitzer's picture

This is good. It gives the ECB more reason to scrap EfSF and bring down Bretton Woods 2

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 18:41 | 1708721 Divided States ...
Divided States of America's picture

Well something just happened, everything spiked up....except Gold and Silver

Anticipation of something being announced before Asia opens

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 18:52 | 1708753 Racer
Racer's picture

no, not anticipation... insider dealing on news that only the rich know and will profit from at the expense of the 99% of the rest of the world

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 18:42 | 1708722 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

Pound fest in PM continues.

Gold down another 20 and silver was down as much as $2 this evening

There must be a margin hike in 3 weeks.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 20:24 | 1708732 Hulk
Hulk's picture

Hey Bob, if you keep gloating, I am going to have to go short 5 Au and 5 Ag contracts, and that will be the end of your PM downtrend...

 

Edit: Notice that just the threat on me going short has brought the PM's off their bottom...

Edit #2. PMs green Bob, my work here is finished...

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 18:59 | 1708776 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Yes, and the pounding is likely to continue until Wednesday, at least.

Everything is going as planned.  But you are too arrogant of a prick to see that.  Funny that you were too scared to be short over the weekend.  You've got the conviction of a wet napkin.  It's going to be even funnier when volatility doubles "unexpectedly" one day, and it moves against you, turning your regular 50% gain/loss in a day to a 100% gain/loss in a day.  That is, if that hasn't already happened.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 19:37 | 1708871 nmewn
nmewn's picture

"Yes, and the pounding is likely to continue until Wednesday, at least."

Exactly. BTFD...nothing has changed.

The debt didn't vanish over the weekend. Forty two percent of people are still riding in the cart instead of helping pull the cart (paying zero income taxes). And another government shutdown loometh over spending something that is absolutely not there to spend.

The good news is...granny's check will never enter into any discussion with the WH ever again...by fiat!!!...ROTFL!!!

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 20:09 | 1708935 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Note that I am extremely bearish on paper gold and silver, but extremely bullish on physical.  Bob has (supposedly) benefited from shorting these products while ridiculing me for having those positions, even though they are the exact same as his supposed positions, absent the fact that he doesn't own any physical.  Laughs all around, though I don't think he will be laughing as the volatility increases dramatically both to the downside (where he makes money) and to the upside (where he loses everything).

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 20:27 | 1708979 Hulk
Hulk's picture

We should follow Bob's lead and short paper to offset our physical holdings for those parabolic overbought conditions...

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 21:14 | 1709012 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

I go into and out of gold tmosely. I can cover a short just as easily as I can put one on.

(And physical follows paper, just fyi) So being bearish on paper is bearish on physical and one day you'll figure that out.

You have two price targets so you can brag about your calls either way. Here are your two price targets for silver for example

$0 

and

$70

So as long the price moves toward either of those targets you're "right" and can say "ninny ninny ninny I was right"

 

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 22:40 | 1709235 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Nope, that's bullshit.  You are the only one who ever said that I called for $70 silver.  Paper silver is going to ZERO, upon a decoupling event.  Physical silver will be closing on parity with gold at that point, as industrial panic sets in.  The fact that you can't even acknowledge, much less understand the argument points out you intellectual shortcomings.

You, on the other hand, make directional calls in a super volatile market, and then come out on any day that PMs go in the direction you favor and claim to be "right", and then go on to claim that you made a 20X return shorting PMs while both paper and physical rose by more than 100%.  

Then you brag about 50% daily volatility in your portfolio, as if that is something to be proud of.  How fucking stupid can you get?

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 20:47 | 1709022 LetThemEatRand
LetThemEatRand's picture

"Forty two percent of people are still riding in the cart instead of helping pull the cart (paying zero income taxes)."

 

Yes, the problem is the middle class and poor people not paying enough income taxes, and granny with her extravagent SS check that she and/or grandpa paid taxes for their entire lives.  The problem most certainly is not Jamie and Lloyd and Rupert and Dick and Angelo and Richard and...  They are private businessmen and therefore they do wrong only because of goverment.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 20:33 | 1708970 bob_dabolina
bob_dabolina's picture

I stayed short gold over the weekend, I sold APA longs because I was nervous going into the weekend that Europe would implode. 

Thanks for reading my blog though tmosely, read closer next time.

Thinking about covering now though that you think the selling will continue. If you're saying the selling is likely to continue it must be time for a rip your face off rally.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 23:20 | 1709259 tmosley
tmosley's picture

I don't read your dumbass blog.  I did, however, catch your little exchange with Trav here where you said that you were too much of a coward to hold to your convictions over hte weekend.  Three whole contracts?  Might as well have had nothing.  What did you make?  1.5%?  Big fucking deal.

You have no idea what is going on, and you are going to lose LITERALLY EVERYTHING because of it.  I look forward to it.

Edit: Also, nice revisionist history there.  I said on Thursday that the decline would continue into options expiration, and I would make my monthly buy there.  You still claim that I am always, and 100% absolutely wrong, yet I keep getting everything right.  Such overly emotional sentiment is a great shining beacon saying "BEHOLD, I, BOB_DABOLINA, AM A LOSER!"  You are so invested in hating me that you will lose everything.  What can I say, I LOVE IT!

Edit #2: One more quick thing, it's still funny how you can't understand what "volatility" is, considering I have been calling for "infinite volatility" since February, when volatility was quite low.  Yes, that, in fact, means lots of "rip your face off" rallies.  But you are too stupid to understand that.

This is a traders paradise.  For now, anyways.  Since you refuse to understand what is actually happening, you will be taken totally by surprise by a COMEX default, at which point you will lose everything except for your straight up shorts (options don't pay off in a default, unless you are selling them in which case you get the cash, but your underlying is still rendered worthless, which is fine if you are naked).  Problem is that any method you have of making money off of a default in paper requires you to set yourself up to be totally vulnerable to a sharp rise, which WILL come.  As such, the only way to win is with PHYSICAL.  But you are, again, to arrogant and stupid to understand that.  All the better for my entertainment.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 18:42 | 1708727 Catch-22
Catch-22's picture

I should have gotten the first post... bitchez. 

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 19:14 | 1708808 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

You know you couldn't have because of Catch-22. 

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 18:46 | 1708728 snowball777
snowball777's picture

ECB can't print. Sovereigns can't pony up either. Those swap lines will be burning up. But those banks don't need recap anyway...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzRDTEdMhWY

"...had initially overestimated the country's growth performance for this year and are finally realizing that its fate is "inexorably linked to that of all its neighbors."

Austerity for me? Austerity for you!

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 18:43 | 1708729 max2205
max2205's picture

Well that allows the can to be kicked another , say, two weeks

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 18:46 | 1708731 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

As I said earlier, going forward all forms of stimulus, monetary via Fed/ECB and fiscal will be muted. Those who profited from the money-printing orgy of the last 30-40 years are satisfied, their power is secure. They don't need to pump the markets anymore, they've bailed. 

It will now go the other way: massive cutting of everything from law enforcement, ambulances, health care, disaster relief, road repair, prisons, courts, food inspections, disease control, scientific research, education, financial regulation agencies, environmental protection etc....

 

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 19:00 | 1708769 scatterbrains
scatterbrains's picture

I can not disagree with what you see for the future, but let me ask... do the cops go rogue and start robbing and looting in this world where their pensions get erased ?

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 21:00 | 1709052 Bobbyrib
Bobbyrib's picture

They would have to be crazy to cut law enforcement..

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 23:22 | 1709307 tumblemore
tumblemore's picture

They'll have private security for themselves while crime will keep the tax-slaves distracted and fearful -  back to Babylon.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 18:46 | 1708736 Racer
Racer's picture

And did that nice piece of BAD news make the futures soar?

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 18:47 | 1708738 sct
sct's picture

Gainesville Coins is currently performing routine updates to the website in an effort to improve your shopping experience. We apologize for any inconvenience. If you need assistance, please contact a member of our staff at 813.482.9300. The website will be down from 6:00 PM September 25, 2011 - 9:00 AM EST September 26, 2011.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 18:51 | 1708746 FunkyMonkeyBoy
FunkyMonkeyBoy's picture

'Bout time all the bullion dealers got together and organised their own price discovery method (one based on supply and demand). They know what a crime COMEX is, so they shouldn't play that game otherwise their lively hoods could be shot to pieces overnight.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 18:51 | 1708747 fdisk
fdisk's picture

WTF is wrong with GOLD, down 20$ again? Those guys are good,
pushing paper down, while collecting real stuff, easy money.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 20:48 | 1709027 DeadFred
DeadFred's picture

The euro, stock futures and gold all move together. Just based on the size of the market the euro is in the driver's seat

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 18:56 | 1708760 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

You can stop flying. In return we just want you to like us.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 18:56 | 1708761 fdisk
fdisk's picture

My Indy on 8h showing it's a bottom for GOLD
1610-1640 high traffic area
Going to fly soon.

Booyahh, watch and see!!!

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 19:14 | 1708810 warchopper
warchopper's picture

Whenever someone says, "Booyahh", there should be some algo that seeks it out and destroys it.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 19:15 | 1708815 DosZap
DosZap's picture

fdisk,

Agreed, absolute bottom(barring WORLD meltdown), $1,584.00...........

We will be over $2k (my prediction by end of year, maybe sooner.)

Silver.........nuther story,damn good shot at $25/$27.00 coming, and intend to load up.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 02:06 | 1709617 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

It just hit $1,570.  Does that mean world meltdown?

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 02:29 | 1709685 tmosley
tmosley's picture

Looking that way.

Hopefully the COMEX goes first.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 18:59 | 1708774 Pig Brotha
Sun, 09/25/2011 - 23:23 | 1709308 Real Estate Geek
Real Estate Geek's picture

 

 

Intellectual Property Rights As Fleeting As The Scent Of Jasmine, Mayfly's Wing In Autumn

http://www.theonion.com/articles/intellectual-property-rights-as-fleetin...

 

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 19:00 | 1708779 TradingJoe
TradingJoe's picture

Sept 30 is end of month AND quarter, eh? WINDOWDRESSING baby "we need to get paid, bro's" :)))! Rally will fade, be sold into it etc etc!!!

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 19:03 | 1708786 sheeple2012
sheeple2012's picture

fa-yooo-chas.... ripping

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 19:11 | 1708790 fdisk
fdisk's picture

GOLD will stop dropping ones 8AM eastern Time f*cking will cease.. Watch 7.30-9.30 AM action, ones Goldman/JPM not able to push it any lower, that be it.

DJ MARKET TALK: " Singapore AUG Manufacturing Output likely + 13.8%" "depression" bitchez..

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 19:12 | 1708802 msmith
msmith's picture

Bearish price action for Gold last week.  Here is an interesting bearish bias analysis after a short term upcoming correction. http://bit.ly/pN2otj

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 19:18 | 1708819 fdisk
fdisk's picture

From 27!!! commodities list here

http://www.sgxniftydowfutureslive.com/index_files/DOWFUTURES.htm

(Look on the right table % change if red = down)

9 are down (Most PM's) Deflation my a$$, rather manipulation.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 19:20 | 1708824 pauhana
pauhana's picture
  1. (Mumble, mumble) getting cranky while watching futures go up in that Beaver Cleaver alternate reality . . . reason is in short supply . . . and fear?  What me worry!
Sun, 09/25/2011 - 19:23 | 1708835 gringo28
gringo28's picture

hellooooooo. the only way out is devaluation. it's like a frikin vacuum chamber here. you guys need to spend some more time in the third world where all this stuff was invented. the USD and EUR are going down against the commodity currencies; that's it. there's nothing else you need to know. sure, they'll be dips and spits but the trend is down b/c it's the standard of living that threatens the future. that's where the only long game is played between competing economies.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 19:31 | 1708854 uformula
uformula's picture

To life love and loot.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 19:36 | 1708867 msmith
msmith's picture
Longer term equities picture seems very bearish http://bit.ly/pqc7LL.
Sun, 09/25/2011 - 20:35 | 1708995 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

Again "good luck trading against a raging bull market in treasuries." that especially included precious metals and commodities in general. Add in a dollar rally and a good old fashioned debt crisis is unavoidable in non-dollar denominated debt.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 20:44 | 1709021 Religion Explained
Religion Explained's picture

Well, if everyone is downgraded, is anyone downgraded? CBs win again ...

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 21:40 | 1709126 disabledvet
disabledvet's picture

the question should be "if a country goes bankrupt can it be recapitalized?" that's something we shall see in Europe shortly.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 21:46 | 1709136 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

blue, red, and white ribbons

for excelling in the race to the bottom

the SNB has so far clearly taken the blue ribbon for sept

if they get passed coming doww-wwn the str-rretch, we're freaking doomed!

 

 

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 21:04 | 1709058 Ned Zeppelin
Ned Zeppelin's picture

Do not be fooled by "spikes up before Asia opens."  Keep your eyes on the ball.  Greece must default, haircuts will be taken.  Other peripherals will follow, and forget the quaint notion of "adequate bank capital" when it comes to the unfunded CDSs that will soon begin their fateful clicking and whirring. The nonsense bank reflating-taxpayer rescue bullshit that went on in the reserve currency - completely controlled US market will not work in Europe, despite Timmah's begging.  Anything else you hear or see is a scam to entice you to think otherwise.  

Stay on target. 

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 21:25 | 1709096 f16hoser
f16hoser's picture

Will someone tell Bernake and Geithner that lending billions more to Europe/IMF is a bad idea. All I can say is: perhaps Christine Lagarde would like to make 500 Billion the "Hard Way!" I'll bet she was something before electricity!

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 21:25 | 1709099 Chestire
Chestire's picture

Unless it gets what it pays for - evidently, each day beyond is a day when costs increase; and it's plain dumb to keep waiting. It's a dangerous moment, reminiscent of 2008 (Eurozone investment plan twarthed by Germany) and 2010 (the weekend bailout). The structure involved minimum compromise with increased efficiency but guarantees suffice when they cover more than the capital being borrowed: EFSF's 120% collateral recognises so. ESM's structure is more adequate.

Also, EFSF bonds are back to back loans so ownership is transferable. But we still need approval - costs are too high, specially with investors withdrawing to US' Twist - the EUR spikes in hoards.

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 21:27 | 1709100 Chestire
Chestire's picture

(Reprinted comment)

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 21:33 | 1709119 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

"And Chinabot is buying the EURUSD, again, why?"

pirates?  really?   beers?  deflation? help the poor swiss?  the magic 8 ball told them to?

where's johnny depp?  is he involved? 

eurobonds uber alleZ!  BiChez!

Sun, 09/25/2011 - 22:30 | 1709214 Die Weiße Rose
Die Weiße Rose's picture

Deus ex Machina - Nee deus intersit, nisi dignus vindice nodus (Horace)

Europa quiescere in manu Dei - Nor in the unraveling be a god displayed
Save where the knot disdains all humbler aid....

Deus ex machina "god out of the machine" is a plot-device whereby a seemingly inextricable problem is suddenly and abruptly solved with the contrived and unexpected intervention of some new event, character, ability, or object.

" Hand of God "

wr;)

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 00:56 | 1709489 Nobody For President
Nobody For President's picture

And Lo, late Sunday afternoon the Deus ex rumor cometh:

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8786665/Multi-trillion-plan-to-save-the-eurozone-being-prepared.html

 

Not hundreds, not thousands, not millions, not billions, but

TRILLIONS of Euros leveraged out of the EFSF via the ECB and maybe Merkels' ample behind.

Billions for Recapitalization of European banks! (which wasn't necessary two weeks ago...)

Greece, however, is let go with haircuts all around.

Brethern and Cistern, WE ARE SAVED!

 

(And who is writing this fucking soap opera these days, cast-offs from Days of Our Lives or All My Children?  Probably not The Bold and the Beautiful...)

 

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 01:56 | 1709583 Outlaw Of The W...
Outlaw Of The Wasteland's picture

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DVdfi1VoM7w

You suck, europe. up and down.  you suck

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 02:09 | 1709627 Socratic Dog
Socratic Dog's picture

Silver is getting massacred.  Down $4 in an hour.  Jesus.

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 02:24 | 1709679 WVO Biker
WVO Biker's picture

PIRATE PARTY put me off with their stupid name ("childish"), but the alternatives so dreadful in germany that you don't go voting any longer. Now come on I stopped smoking pot 10 years ago but in earlier years it would have been better not to be a criminal, pirates would legalize soft drugs. I would never use any drugs any more since I am 56. City traffic is all jammed up and they would grant a free bus ride instead. They would not even have to buy more buses, just repair the ones that are thrown away now. And they want some internet freedom...FIATtackWatch just blew my mind. How about a reasonable negative tax for everybody instead of bailing out the banks. They might have been able to afford that while reimbursing any savers up to say €500,000 or 1,000,000 when banks go belly up. It would probable not even have been inflationary.  

Mon, 09/26/2011 - 14:43 | 1712275 hooligan2009
hooligan2009's picture

on and on and on...there is nothing sinister about downsizing an economy to its sustainable level of GDP output. what is sinister is the assumption that over inflated (by leverage) GDP output needs to be funded by reducing the living standards of voters! this is death by a thousand cuts and it moves money from people who have done the right thing to people who have done the wrong thing; call it non-criminals paying criminals if you will, because non-criminals have the mistaken belief that criminals are sexy.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!