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S&P Warns It May Cut Most European Banks, European Union Itself

Tyler Durden's picture




 

Not sure why the market is surprised by this, but it is.

  • S&P PLACES LARGE BANK GROUPS ACROSS EUROZONE ON WATCH NEG - BNP, SocGen, Commerzbank, Intesa, Deutsche... pretty much everyone.
  • EUROPEAN UNION'S AAA RATING MAY BE CUT BY S&P - you KNOW Barroso, Juncker and Gollum are going to take this very personally
  • In short: Commerzbank AG, Natixis S.A., Credit Agricole S.A., Eurohypo, Deutsche Bank L-T counterparty credit rating, Deutsche Postbank AG, Intesa Sanpaolo,Societe Generale L-T counterparty credit, UniCredit SpA, Credit Du Nord L-T counterparty credit, Comapgnie Europeenne de Garanties et Cautions, Credit Foncier de France, Locindus S.A., Rabobank Nederland, CACEIS, Banca IMI SpA, Ulster Bank, Banque Kolb, Bank Polska Kasa Opieki S.A. ratings may be cut by S&P.

Basically, S&P just told Europe it has two days to get the continent in order or else. Said otherwise, it just called Europe's bluff. The problem is Europe is holding 2-7 offsuit...

And now is the time for the FT to eviscerate the bears with the latest groundless rumors.

From the S&P's downgrade of the EU:

  • On Dec. 5, 2011, Standard & Poor's placed the ratings on 15 of the 17 member states of the European Monetary and Economic Union (EMU or eurozone) governments on CreditWatch with negative implications. As a result, the ratings on 17 European Union (EU) member states are now on CreditWatch with negative implications.
  • We are therefore also placing the 'AAA' long-term rating on the EU on CreditWatch negative. At the same time, we are affirming the 'A-1+' short-term rating on the EU.
  • The CreditWatch placement on the eurozone member states was prompted by our concerns about the potential impact on these member states of what we view as deepening political, financial, and monetary problems within the eurozone.
  • Eurozone members directly contribute approximately 62% of the EU's total 2011 budgeted revenues. Our CreditWatch review will focus on the financial ability of eurozone member states to support the EU's debt service should the institution face a period of financial distress.
  • We expect to conclude our review as soon as possible after the European summit on Dec. 9, 2011. Depending on the outcome of our review of the ratings on eurozone member governments, we could lower the long-term rating on the EU by one notch, if any.

LONDON (Standard & Poor's) Dec. 7, 2011--Standard & Poor's Ratings Services today placed its 'AAA' long-term issuer credit rating on the European Union (EU) on CreditWatch with negative implications. At the same time, we affirmed the 'A-1+' short-term issuer credit rating on the EU.

The CreditWatch placement is prompted by similar CreditWatch placements, which we made on 15 eurozone sovereigns on Dec. 5, 2011. The CreditWatch on the EU is an expression of our concerns about the potential impact on the future debt service capacity of eurozone sovereigns, and therefore also the EU, in the context of what we view as deepening political, financial, and monetary problems within the eurozone. Eurozone members account for 62% of the EU's total 2011 budgeted revenues. For 2011, budgeted revenues from Germany and France were 32% of total EU revenues, at 16% and 14%, respectively. In total, 'AAA' rated member states account for just over 49% of the EU's 2011 budgeted revenues, with only the U.K., Denmark, and Sweden retaining a stable outlook (together they contribute 13% of the EU's 2011 budgeted revenues). Given the EU's dependency on such revenues from national budgets, and our recent CreditWatch placements on the 'AAA' ratings on Germany and France, among others, we will concurrently review the 'AAA' long-term rating on the EU with the ratings on the eurozone member states.

CREDITWATCH

We expect to resolve the CreditWatch placements on the eurozone member states as soon as possible after the European summit on Dec. 8 and 9, 2011. Following this, we then expect to resolve the CreditWatch on the EU. We typically resolve CreditWatch actions within 90 days, although we will attempt to resolve the CreditWatch placements on eurozone sovereigns and therefore the EU sooner, if possible and appropriate.

We could lower the long-term issuer credit rating on the EU by one notch if we were to lower the current 'AAA' ratings on one or more member states, with a special focus on the largest contributors, France and Germany. Conversely, the ratings could be affirmed at their current levels if we were to affirm the member states' 'AAA' ratings following the respective sovereign CreditWatch review.


And from the bank downgrade:

--Standard & Poor's Ratings Services said today that it has placed its ratings on some of the largest rated banking groups in the eurozone on CreditWatch with negative implications (see ratings list below). Similar rating actions on other large banks in the eurozone will follow soon. This follows the placement of the sovereign credit ratings on 15 members of the European Economic and Monetary Union (EMU or eurozone) on CreditWatch with negative implications on Dec. 5, 2011 (see "Standard & Poor's Puts Ratings On Eurozone Sovereigns On CreditWatch With Negative Implications").
 
We believe that the ratings on Austria, Belgium, Finland, Germany, The Netherlands, and Luxembourg could be lowered by up to one notch, if at all, and those on Estonia, France, Ireland, Italy, Malta, Portugal, Slovak Republic, Slovenia, and Spain by up to two notches, if at all.
 
We intend to resolve the CreditWatch placement on these banks soon after the resolution of the CreditWatch placement on the related sovereign.
 
We will publish individual research updates on some of the banks identified below including a list of ratings on affiliated rated entities. The research updates will be available at www.standardandpoors.com/AI4FI and on RatingsDirect on the Global Credit Portal. Ratings on specific issues will be available on RatingsDirect on the Global Credit Portal and www.standardandpoors.com following release.
 
 
RATINGS LIST

The ratings listed below are issuer credit ratings.
                     To                         From
 
Barclays Bank Ireland PLC
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A-/Watch Neg              A-/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A-2                       A-2
 
BNP Paribas          AA-/Watch Neg/A-1+        AA-/Stable/A-1+
 Banca Nazionale del Lavoro SpA
                     A/Watch Neg/A-1           A/Negative/A-1
 BGL BNP Paribas S.A.AA-/Watch Neg/A-1+        AA-/Stable/A-1+
 BNP Paribas Personal Finance
                     AA-/Watch Neg/A-1+        AA-/Stable/A-1+
 BNP Paribas Cardif  A+/Watch Neg/--           A+/Stable/--
 Cardif Assurance Vie
                     AA-/Watch Neg/--          AA-/Stable/--
 Cardif-Assurances Risques Divers
                     AA-/Watch Neg/--          AA-/Stable/--
 BNP Paribas (China) Ltd.
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A+/Watch Neg              A+/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A-1                       A-1
 BNP Paribas Securities Corp.
                     AA-/Watch Neg/A-1+        AA-/Stable/A-1+
 BNP Paribas Securities Services
                     AA-/Watch Neg/A-1+        AA-/Stable/A-1+
 Fortis Bank S.A./N.V.
                     AA-/Watch Neg/A-1+        AA-/Stable/A-1+
 
BPCE
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A+/Watch Neg              A+/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A-1                       A-1
 BRED-Banque Populaire
 Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A+/Watch Neg              A+/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A-1                       A-1
 Compagnie Europeenne de Garanties et Cautions
                     A+/Watch Neg/--           A+/Stable/--
 Credit Foncier de France
                     A/Watch Neg/A-1           A/Stable/A-1
 Locindus S.A.
                     A/Watch Neg/A-1           A/Stable/A-1
 Natixis S.A.
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A+/Watch Neg              A+/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A-1                       A-1
 Natixis Australia Pty Ltd.
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A+/Watch Neg              A+/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A-1                       A-1
 Natixis Financial Products LLC
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A+/Watch Neg              A+/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A-1                       A-1
 
Commerzbank AG       A/Watch Neg/A-1           A/Negative/A-1
Commerzbank International S.A.
                    A/Watch Neg/A-1           A/Negative/A-1
Commerzbank Europe (Ireland)
                    A/Watch Neg/A-1           A/Negative/A-1
Eurohypo AG         A-/Watch Neg/A-2          A-/Negative/A-2
EUROHYPO Europaeische Hypothekenbank S.A.
                    A-/Watch Neg/A-2          A-/Negative/A-2
 
Cooperatieve Centrale Raiffeisen-Boerenleenbank B.A. (Rabobank Nederland) Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     AA/Watch Neg              AA/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A-1+                      A-1+
 Rabobank Australia Ltd.
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     AA/Watch Neg               AA/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A-1+                       A-1+
 Rabobank New Zealand Ltd.
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     AA/Watch Neg               AA/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A-1+                       A-1+
 Rabohypotheekbank N.V.
                     AA/Watch Neg/--            AA/Stable/--
 
Credit Agricole S.A.
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A+/Watch Neg               A+/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A-1                        A-1
 Banque de Financement et de Tresorerie
                     A/Watch Neg/A-1            A/Stable/A-1
 CA Consumer Finance
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A+/Watch Neg               A+/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A-1                        A-1
 CACEIS
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A+/Watch Neg               A+/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A-1                        A-1
 Cassa di Risparmio di Parma e Piacenza SpA
                     A/Watch Neg/A-1            A/Negative/A-1
 Credit Lyonnais
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A+/Watch Neg               A+/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A-1                        A-1
 Credit Agricole CIB Australia Ltd.
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A+/Watch Neg              A+/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A-1                       A-1
 Credit Agricole Corporate and Investment Bank Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A+/Watch Neg              A+/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                     A-1                       A-1
 
Deutsche Bank AG

Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A+/Watch Neg                A+/Negative
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A-1                         A-1
 Deutsche Bank AG (Canada Branch)
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A+/Watch Neg                A+/Negative
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A-1                         A-1
 Deutsche Bank Luxembourg S.A.
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A+/Watch Neg                A+/Negative
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A-1                         A-1
 Deutsche Bank National Trust Company
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A+/Watch Neg                A+/Negative
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A-1                         A-1
 Deutsche Bank Securities Inc.
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A+/Watch Neg                A+/Negative
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A-1                         A-1
 Deutsche Bank Trust Corp.
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A+/Watch Neg                A+/Negative
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A-1                         A-1
 Deutsche Bank Trust Co. Americas
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A+/Watch Neg                A+/Negative
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A-1                         A-1
 Deutsche Bank Trust Company Delaware
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A+/Watch Neg                A+/Negative
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A-1                         A-1
 
Deutsche Postbank AG
                   A/Watch Neg/A-1             A/Negative/A-1
 
Deutsche Securities Inc.
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A+/Watch Neg                A+/Negative
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A-1                         A-1
 
Intesa Sanpaolo SpA
                   A/Watch Neg/A-1             A/Negative/A-1
 Banca Infrastrutture Innovazione e Sviluppo SpA (BIIS)
                   A/Watch Neg/A-1             A/Negative/A-1
Banca IMI SpA
                   A/Watch Neg/A-1             A/Negative/A-1
 
Ulster Bank Ltd.
                   BBB+/Watch Neg/A-2          BBB+/Stable/A-2
Ulster Bank Ireland Ltd.
                   BBB+/Watch Neg/A-2          BBB+/Stable/A-2
 
Rabobank USA Financial Corp.
                   A-1+                        A-1+
Societe Generale
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A+/Watch Neg                A+/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A-1                         A-1
 Banque Kolb S.A.
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A+/Watch Neg                A+/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A-1                         A-1
 Banque Rhone Alpes S.A.
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A+/Watch Neg                A+/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A-1                         A-1
 Banque Tarneaud S.A.
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A+/Watch Neg                A+/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A-1                         A-1
 Credit du Nord S.A.
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A+/Watch Neg                A+/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A-1                         A-1
 Franfinance
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A+/Watch Neg                A+/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A-1                         A-1
 Komercni Banka A.S.
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A+/Watch Neg                A+/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A-1                         A-1
 SG Americas Securities LLC
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A+/Watch Neg                A+/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A-1                         A-1
 Societe Generale Bank & Trust
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A+/Watch Neg                A+/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A-1                         A-1
 
UniCredit SpA
                   A/Watch Neg/A-1             A/Negative/A-1
 UniCredit Leasing SpA
                   A/Watch Neg/A-1             A/Negative/A-1
 UniCredit Bank Austria AG
                   A/Watch Neg/A-1             A/Negative/A-1
 UniCredit Bank AG
                   A/Watch Neg/A-1             A/Negative/A-1
 Bank Polska Kasa Opieki S.A.
Long-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A-/Watch Neg                A-/Stable
Short-Term Counterparty Credit Rating
                   A-2                         A-2

 

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Wed, 12/07/2011 - 15:54 | 1955794 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Remember equity markets are the kids with hockey helmets on playing with cat turds in the sandbox.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:01 | 1955843 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

And even these newest round of "cuts", which are essentially leveraging great quasi QE infusions, are essentially more than generous. It's like the insurance company finally writing off the house that burnt down months ago as a total loss. It's too little too late, and the interest and oppurtunity cost has set in that much worse. Oh well, at least we're acknowledging that there's some smoke on that there horizon......in cahoots ;)

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:04 | 1955866 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

You really love that word don'tcha?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:24 | 1955938 vast-dom
vast-dom's picture

Gene that was special for you pal ;)

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:30 | 1955963 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

About....fucking.....time. They'll never catch up to Egan Jones, but at least they are doing something. Dude, that emperor guy is completely naked. And is it cold outside, because...oh nevermind.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:35 | 1955978 HD
HD's picture

S&P is being used as a tool to scare EU members into falling into line - it's just too little, too late.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:17 | 1955916 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

S&P PLACES SARKOZY AND MERKEL ON WATCH NEGATIVE

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:25 | 1955941 pkea
pkea's picture

I admire merkel's resistance to the pressure. why don't S$P just plainly downgrade the world 

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:36 | 1955977 pkea
pkea's picture

They really want that 1267 level. so what happening in the last 15 minutes tells like nothing else who is in charge. It is officially a totalitarian regime.

 

What black swan event, which the EZ obviously isn't, can bring any change to this status quo?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:44 | 1956028 pkea
pkea's picture

Here it comes 1267 some random 14+ points on S&P in 10 minutes

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:15 | 1956490 Ratscam
Ratscam's picture

just because they held hands yesterday?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 18:36 | 1956556 undercover brother
undercover brother's picture

for god's sake, make the damn cuts already and stop warning.  just cut them if they deserve to be cut and move on to the next. 

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:45 | 1956029 Mr Lennon Hendrix
Mr Lennon Hendrix's picture

Remember equity markets are the kids with hockey helmets on playing with cat turds in the sandbox.

And the bond markets are where the kids without helmets throw rocks at each other.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 15:48 | 1955796 HedgeAccordingly
HedgeAccordingly's picture

VIX hinting at something... http://hedge.ly/sh3Yl9

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 15:50 | 1955805 AllThatGlitters
AllThatGlitters's picture

Gold has been hinting at something all day:  http://www.oilbull.com/gold-price/

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 15:49 | 1955797 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

The solution to this is clearly more central planning. Because government bureaucrats always know what's best for us.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:27 | 1955952 Yikes
Yikes's picture

Never let a crisis go to waist.  Isn't that the mantra of TurboTax Tim's boss.   

 

How ironic (i.e. tragic) it would be that America iwould help Germany, frickn Germany, disolve Democracy in Europe!  

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 17:18 | 1956276 Votewithabullet
Votewithabullet's picture

Never let a doughnut go to yer waist I think is what he said.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 15:49 | 1955798 Caviar Emptor
Caviar Emptor's picture

"You cut me? I demand satisfaction!"

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 15:54 | 1955818 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Shall we say 'Pistols at dawn'?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 17:49 | 1956394 OpenEyes
OpenEyes's picture

AA is the new AAA

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 15:49 | 1955800 The Axe
The Axe's picture

Market is broken....who cares..though my shorts on corn and natural gas are doing well..However my shorts on CF is giving me GAS!!!!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 15:53 | 1955813 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

About time.   Long overdue.  

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 15:53 | 1955815 Nothing To See Here
Nothing To See Here's picture

If the market was still 'normal' and had regular participants like you and me, it would not be surprised. But the bulk of the market activity now consists of central banks, banks, government insiders and large pension funds who know no better than what their failed mathematical models tell them. They will be the most obvious deers in the headlight when it all crashes, save for the few pupeteers among them.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 15:55 | 1955816 SloMoe
SloMoe's picture

I guess I'm slower than I thought, didn't S&P just essentially downgrade most of Europe? Can't they get it all done in one press release?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 15:57 | 1955825 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

No No.   There were threats to threaten to downgrade.   Then the threats to threaten were reiterated.    That was follwed by a double-dare threat to threaten to downgrade.    This, of course, all lead to just a flat-out threat to threaten to downgrade -- which has now lead to just a plain threaten to downgrade.     Got it?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:00 | 1955841 Randall Cabot
Randall Cabot's picture

It's all very clear now, thank you.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:02 | 1955851 chunkylover42
chunkylover42's picture

I think I got it.

Europe is on double secret probation?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:16 | 1955910 Shitters_Full
Shitters_Full's picture

Put Neidermeyer on it.  He's a sneaky little shit just like you.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:04 | 1955864 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

Couldn't they just collect Shrute bucks instead?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 21:10 | 1955908 macholatte
macholatte's picture

 

 Double Dog Dare

After a dare has been made and the daree has refused, the darer can then raise the stakes by double dog daring the daree, meaning that if the dare is carried out by the daree then the darer will also perform the task.

 

Flick: Are you kidding? Stick my tongue to that stupid pole? That's dumb!
Schwartz: That's 'cause you know it'll stick!
Flick: You're full of it!
Schwartz: Oh yeah?
Flick: Yeah!
Schwartz: Well I double-DOG-dare ya!
Ralphie as Adult: [narrating] NOW it was serious. A double-dog-dare. What else was there but a "triple dare you"? And then, the coup de grace of all dares, the sinister triple-dog-dare.
Schwartz: I TRIPLE-dog-dare ya!
Ralphie as Adult: [narrating] Schwartz created a slight breach of etiquette by skipping to the triple dare and going right for the throat!
Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:33 | 1955974 francis_the_won...
francis_the_wonder_hamster's picture

Only this time, they mean it.  Really......

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 15:54 | 1955819 tim73
tim73's picture

Would somebody please put that wildly barking S&P rabid dog down for good!?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 15:55 | 1955821 pods
pods's picture

Why is it that the S&P is always the last to know?  

Everyone knows that Europe is saturated with debt.  As is most of the rest of the world.  

Strange how everyone loses their shit when the coroner pronounces a guy dead, yet everyone can clearly see a headless corpse before them.

pods

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 15:55 | 1955822 billhilly
billhilly's picture

This'll be good for a green close today I'll bet.  What a farkin joke this has all become.  Way back when the markets has a slight semblence of connection to reality/freedom this kind of news would have sent S+P down 80 points.  Today, nada.  I'd be LOL if I wasn't crying in my short beer.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 15:57 | 1955823 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

IMF asking for 120 billion from the US. When is this going to stop? Please who ever votes for this; can you simply ask yourself why a country with 1.5 trillion annual deficit is even considering bailing out the rest of the world.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:19 | 1955920 EscapeKey
EscapeKey's picture

It's clearly CAPITALISM'S fault that SOCIALIST POLICIES generate huge deficits.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:33 | 1955968 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

Capitalism run by socialist(s) is not capitalism.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 15:55 | 1955824 Shleprock
Shleprock's picture

Certainly this calls for QE3!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:16 | 1955885 pkea
pkea's picture

a non stop QE is in the works since 2008 with another tranche announcement coming shortly next tuesday. the question is when the market will develop immunity to the QE's. It is getting pretty close.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 15:56 | 1955827 Xkwisetly Paneful
Xkwisetly Paneful's picture

The upgrades/downgrades have meant almost nothing in the historical meat of the distribution certainly next to nothing compared to the headlines.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 15:59 | 1955832 Martial
Martial's picture

TD: S&P just called Europe's bluff... and Europe is holding 2-7 offsuit.

 

LOL! Man I hate when that happens!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:03 | 1955857 stop.snitching
stop.snitching's picture

They might be holding 2-7 offsuit, but since the game is rigged you know the flop will come 2-2-7....

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:18 | 1955918 MarkTwain00
MarkTwain00's picture

nope we have already seen the flop and the turn, just waiting on the river to put them down for good

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:47 | 1956067 stop.snitching
stop.snitching's picture

Boy I hope you're right

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:24 | 1955936 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Too bad the S&P is only holding a pair of 2's itself.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 15:58 | 1955833 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

And there goes the dynamite!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 15:58 | 1955835 youngman
youngman's picture

No news here...maybe if they FINALLY do it...but just more smoke in the room right now...I wonder what Greece thinks..or Portugal..lol....everyone is waiting for the big news on Friday...it can be three things...Nothing and the EU falls apart....or full on bailout....or announcement of another meeting in the future....I vote for the future...in the meantime....their economy is stopped as everyone waits...which makes it worse...and makes investors pull thier money out of the casino...and makes business´s hold back...all because the politicians spent way to much...they could have said no.....

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:00 | 1955844 KandiRaverHipster
KandiRaverHipster's picture

yes, because it makes sense to cut the ratings on both creditors and debtors.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:01 | 1955845 a growing concern
a growing concern's picture

Come on, 7 on the river! Let's see a 7 on the river!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:02 | 1955852 homersimpson
homersimpson's picture

Unfortunately, 2-7 offsuit still wins almost 20% of the time in a pre-flop all-in situation.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 22:15 | 1957027 UP Forester
UP Forester's picture

Well, that sounds much better than a 2-7 offsuit losing 80% of the time....

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:03 | 1955861 Meremortal
Meremortal's picture

I thought these guys were supposed to tell us stuff we don't already know.

I could get wordy now, but...nahh.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:04 | 1955862 Odin
Odin's picture

Europe (the people) is holding a 7-2 off suit..... and the Banksters who control it's governments also happen to be holding 5 Aces.........the game has been rigged from the get-go...

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:42 | 1956019 bingo was his name
bingo was his name's picture

But the banks are really not in full possession of the 5 aces - they just hold an option contract from another player that once held the encumbered rights to an ace. 

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:04 | 1955865 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

EUROPEAN UNION'S AAA RATING MAY BE CUT BY S&P - you KNOW Barroso, Juncker and Gollum are going to take this very personally

Sweet sweet music! Down u go u unelected b*stards with your deadborn political utopia. Can't wait to hear the kicking and screaming, esp from the mao-extremist Barroso. Someone should tell him what happened to Soviet Union some years back...

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:09 | 1955886 tim73
tim73's picture

Don't start dancing just yet, little englander. The Game is not over. Anyway, we will get back to you, little traitors in your shitty little island...payback will be a BITCH!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:30 | 1955964 Dick Darlington
Dick Darlington's picture

not an englander so go cry to someone else

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:04 | 1955868 youngman
youngman's picture

You know all this debt is what is shown on the books..or is supposed to be...it does not take into account all the derivitives.....and I bet that is what all the secret talks are about in the meetings....who is going to pay for those....and they sure as hell are not going to tell us anything about that crap...

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:05 | 1955870 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

The TP ratings agency warns it may cut the entirety of Earth's financial systems' ratings to F'ed-plus, from just plain-old F'ed.

F'ed and Fed. Harmonical, almost.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:06 | 1955874 kito
kito's picture

man this market wont crash!!!!! how are they ever going to print if bernanke and ecb cant save the world!!!!!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:14 | 1955905 youngman
youngman's picture

You don´t think they are printing right now.....I bet they are throwing cash all over to save this little world they live in....its save it..or lose their yachts..2nd and 3rd houses in Aspen...the Rivera....their private jets...and so on and so forth....they are drowing right now....let em go down...look at Iceland today.....lol...they survived...

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:18 | 1955875 Racer
Racer's picture

Don't worry, the ECB and the chairSATAN says BTFD and the market will go up again cos the PPT goosed it again

 

edit: see market jumps including the euro!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:07 | 1955879 wandstrasse
wandstrasse's picture

debt fiat ponzi money, clueless population, totally detached elite, bank owned governments... all old boring stuff..

 

S&P Downgrades - now THAT is shocking! I am frightened like hell!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:07 | 1955880 HileTroy
HileTroy's picture

Seven Dewy thats funny it wins pre flop only when you got a player with balls enough to bluff with it.   We'll boys and girls we do no some thing where ever you go there you are. I think ZH is hinting at some things as well, I love all the new scope adds on the site it seems to have been picking up. LOL 

 

Party on Garth

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:07 | 1955881 HileTroy
HileTroy's picture

woops dubble post

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:08 | 1955883 vegas
vegas's picture

S&P vs. EU

Biggest game of chicken I've ever seen. If they downgrade, and can't borrow without much higher rates, it sends the whole kitty into a death spiral. xaueur to the moon Alice.

 

http://vegasxau.blogspot.com

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:14 | 1955903 sabra1
sabra1's picture

sorry, but this broadway play is here to amuse the sheeple! all these agencies, banks, ecb, fed, imf etc, are all one and the same! a bailout is the tax the sheeple pay to the soon to be in hell oldidorks!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:09 | 1955887 undercover brother
undercover brother's picture

bonds, vix hinted all afternoon, but this news seems meaningless to eur/usd.  please cut already. enough with the warnings. 

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:09 | 1955888 youngandhealthy
youngandhealthy's picture

The Anglo-Saxon Banksters have finally got what they were looking for....no "hair-cut" and a golden opportunity to scoope-up som cheap Euro sov debt.

6 months from now the will laughing their pants wet...

 

 

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:34 | 1955975 Sophist Economicus
Sophist Economicus's picture

Cheap Euro debt???   I'm wetting my pants now.    How can nothing be worth more than nothing?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:47 | 1956058 youngandhealthy
youngandhealthy's picture

SE...easy....'casue the rest is yielding negative

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:10 | 1955890 sony1
sony1's picture

Problem is the market doesn't want to sell off, this staged downgrade won't have the same effect. heh

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:10 | 1955893 Piranhanoia
Piranhanoia's picture

S&P has a pair of 3's and they don't have to worry about all in, because the government is going to shut their mouth soon for telling that truth crap.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:11 | 1955894 ThirdCoastSurfer
ThirdCoastSurfer's picture

Markets are now intrinsically algorithmic and do not discern but react to Orwellian collectivist terms like "cut". 

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:28 | 1955895 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Context says we should be back at the lows on the day...EOD sell off maybe?

*edit*I stand corrected, we should have punched through the lows of the day.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:11 | 1955896 Abraham Snake
Abraham Snake's picture

The continent? They should just skip to the chase and downgrade the whole fricking solar system, next, the galactic spiral arm gets a BBB.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:13 | 1955901 lolmao500
lolmao500's picture

Cut UK and Japan already.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:16 | 1955912 pirea
pirea's picture

Who is listening at these rating agencies and what is the value of their ratings when all it is so interconnected and you never know who is at the end of the pipe.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:16 | 1955913 YesWeKahn
YesWeKahn's picture

It's like telling a 5 years old to grow up in 2 days. Good luck for that.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:17 | 1955914 Everybodys All ...
Everybodys All American's picture

the cost to kick the can just got more expensive. Would it not have been easier to list the banks who are not getting downgraded?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:18 | 1955919 magpie
magpie's picture

And tomorrow we dine in Bernanks Valhalla, on EuroZirp and garbage collateral.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:28 | 1955953 XitSam
XitSam's picture

Fimbulwinter!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:19 | 1955922 Dr. Engali
Dr. Engali's picture

S&P to Europe. Print or die. Meanwhile over here in the U.S. Poor Ben needs the market to crash so he can print. Everybody knows that Ben is going to print so the markets won't crash. Funny stuff.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:29 | 1955939 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Everytime he finishes warming up his terminal, his pinkey, and index finger the market goes up.  Here's Ben in his shinning moment http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FHx9M-WADPI

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:26 | 1955947 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

Yea that about sums it all up.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:20 | 1955924 ziggy59
ziggy59's picture

So the Dow is rocketing on this news or did rumorsaregreatforpumping.com come out with something?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:33 | 1955972 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Have to get out of their Trades.  So a temporary bump on bad news is common.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:20 | 1955926 Racer
Racer's picture

'market' loves these downgrades

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:21 | 1955927 ramonnl
ramonnl's picture

Why aren't they cutting the uk? The UK is probably worse off than greece!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:35 | 1955979 sabra1
sabra1's picture

guess where the oldidorks reside?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:21 | 1955929 EZT
EZT's picture

and the market just went "up"again.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:24 | 1955937 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture

And just what do you expect it to do? Reflect reality?

If that were the case, it would have went straight to zero without passing go and collecting $200 trillion in 2009.

Shut up, eat your peas, and buy me a fucking Christmas gift already, you putz!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:27 | 1955949 SheepDog-One
SheepDog-One's picture

'Market went up' yea with PPT shoveling in dollars into the boiler. For how long?

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:25 | 1955932 firstdivision
firstdivision's picture

Who's frontrunning a Central Bank announcement?

Either that, or letter bombs to bank CEO's is bullish in some weird way.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:23 | 1955933 LarryDavis
LarryDavis's picture

Any headlines coming out? My system goes long at 3pm and is a little confused. Need to make some fucking money.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:26 | 1955943 PontifexMaximus
PontifexMaximus's picture

Bullish for the markets, esp. US, they must move higher that nobody looks behind the dark corner. US are happy to dodge behind the EU mess, but time will come, latest by.....Obama will tell you.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:26 | 1955944 sabra1
Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:26 | 1955946 defn8Dog
defn8Dog's picture

We need a 3 pm direct feed from the FT, which now says central banks are putting up gold as collateral for USD purchases.  

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:27 | 1955948 EZT
EZT's picture

WTF!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:42 | 1956017 Banksters
Banksters's picture

This is just gay.  No offense to all the homos out there.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:27 | 1955950 Comay Mierda
Comay Mierda's picture

I'm going to start my own credit ratings agency.  it will be called Common Sense Credit Ratings

Ratings:

A = Absolutely

B = Barely passing

C = Crap

F = Fuck that shit

----------------------------------

Germany - F

France - F

Italy - F

USA - FFF-

Gold - AAA+

 

there.  thats all you need to know

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:33 | 1955973 wandstrasse
wandstrasse's picture

by the conclusions of your own ratings agency (=gold) you became your own central bank, too.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:41 | 1956007 common_sense
common_sense's picture

FED AND ECB:  INSERT MORE COIN OR GO TO HELL !!!!

ON A LONG ENOUGH TIMELINE.....ZERO !!! EVEN CENTRAL BANKS, DAMN IT !!!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:28 | 1955954 dcb
dcb's picture

seemed to be very bullish at 15:00

gota love this market. and hft algo's

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:29 | 1955956 Racer
Racer's picture

And there you have it.. 'market' soaring .... again

Got to have those xmas bonuses no matter what happens

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:28 | 1955958 eBuddha
eBuddha's picture

alert:  ECB just notified the markets that 'pig shit and truffles' will now be considered good collateral.

 

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:34 | 1955976 PontifexMaximus
PontifexMaximus's picture

White truffle was quoting north of EUR 3000/kg at Alba market!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:29 | 1955960 death_to_fed_tyranny
death_to_fed_tyranny's picture

Can you smell the fear. Print all they want. The system is beyond repair. Let the banksters enjoy the end of a rope!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:30 | 1955965 apu123
apu123's picture

It looks like the Dow is buying the "rumor" of an EU rating cut.  If its bad news buy, if its good news buy, looks like the S&P is really going to get the Europeans to get their act together on Friday, and get a big print out of the ECB tomorrow.  Weird!

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:32 | 1955966 Waterfallsparkles
Waterfallsparkles's picture

Do not think it is right that the Credit Rating Agencys should be trying to influence Foreign Policy.

It has become very obvious that the Rating Agencys are working for the Banks.

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:46 | 1956034 Ghordius
Ghordius's picture

Banks pay their fees, are their clients
Banks are the biggest political funding spenders
Banks provide advice to Greece
Banks provide ministers, SecTreasurers, PMs
Banks are bigger then ever in history
Banks are the biz since years
MegaBanks are...

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:32 | 1955967 HD
Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:33 | 1955970 mktsrmanipulated
mktsrmanipulated's picture

and everyone called us crooks when we had a floor and pits.....well this is what you wanted algos backed by banks that have unlmited $ from the fed which gives them the ability to just push the mkts anywhere regardless of fundamentals

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:36 | 1955981 falak pema
falak pema's picture

S& P is suffering from flame retard,  post event reaction, like a delayed action hard on, when the lady has already left. Now they feel they could punish a harem of devious banks in an orgy of self righteous gang-bangs, to punish the promiscuous lasses involved in culpable licentiousness, with vagrant princes from foreign lands and concupiscent harem slaves. Damn, we are moving back to the Harem and Byzantine ages!

S&P as paragons of virtue...???

Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:37 | 1955986 Tsar Pointless
Tsar Pointless's picture
  • NYPD Warns New York Banks to Be on Alert After Letter Bomb Sent to CEO of Deutsche Bank in Germany: Report (Story developing)
  • CNBC.com headline for now.

    Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:38 | 1955989 The trend is yo...
    The trend is your friend's picture

    The market has now become numb to the S&P downgrades and threats.  The ES seems to rally each time S&P makes an announcement

    Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:44 | 1955997 mktsrmanipulated
    mktsrmanipulated's picture

    anyone else notice that on the rally from 1068 to 1289.25 the euro was trading 1.4240 now Es is back up to 1265 and euro is struggling to hold onto 1.34

    ie ES -1.9% from 10/27/2011

     

    and euro -5.74% same period

     

     

    little disconnect....you gotta be kidding me

     

    Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:41 | 1956010 Everybodys All ...
    Everybodys All American's picture

    The market is on full pedal to the metal stupid...

    Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:43 | 1956024 f16hoser
    f16hoser's picture

    The fact that S&P talks about it all the time tells me one thing: THEY'RE NOT GONNA PULL THE TRIGGER.

     

    Pussies

    Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:46 | 1956051 NuYawkFrankie
    NuYawkFrankie's picture

    S&P should be T&S  (Taken-out and Shot)

     

     

    Wed, 12/07/2011 - 16:49 | 1956052 Duffminster
    Duffminster's picture

    It seems like S&P or someone who has major influence with them (you can guess who) is basically trying to extort the EU into making rapid fire decisions (primarily getting the political cover to enable the ECB to put a lot of toxic debt on its balance sheet quickly).

    In my opinion (held by many others) that the ratings agencies were deeply complicit in the derivative born crisis that caused the Lehman events and are about to unfold again, I find it deeply unethical and in fact out and out imoral that they are engaging in this kind of well timed extortion to try to pressure Merkel and company and the ECB to make decisions which are not in the best interest of Europe. 

    I believe that this ill timed threat is a sign of the deepening desperation of the largest money center derivatives players and the Fed.  All bullying aside, I don't believe Merkel or the ECB will cave.   What do you think?

    Duffminster

    Wed, 12/07/2011 - 17:00 | 1956167 dcb
    dcb's picture

    guess that's shy painting the tape at teh close.

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