This page has been archived and commenting is disabled.

Spain's Real Debt To GDP Right Now: 146.6%

Tyler Durden's picture




 

One can pretend that Spain's officially reported debt/GDP ratio is 68.50%, or one can do a full breakdown of all liabilities, including contingent, and add the €100 billion bailout to the total, and get the following rather terrifying ratio: 146.6%.

Courtesy of Mark Grant

 

- advertisements -

Comment viewing options

Select your preferred way to display the comments and click "Save settings" to activate your changes.
Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:00 | 2513867 Budd aka Sidewinder
Budd aka Sidewinder's picture

Does this mean they're going to cancel the Vuelta de Espana?

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:02 | 2513878 phungus_mungus
phungus_mungus's picture

It's like DuPont circle gone financial...

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:17 | 2513911 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

I remember when me and my buddy were a couple of clueless midwestern boys walking around DuPont Circle. We were looking around and then we both asked each other, "Where are all the chicks?"

I really have to ask, where is all the wealth?

What's the prediction for the total bailout of everyone cost? I'm roughly thinking $70 trillion.

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:30 | 2513942 falak pema
falak pema's picture

No thats funny money; it will truly be that, the day the Oligarchs are obliged to throw in the towel and then the reset will begin. The Gods must be laffing their heads off at man's delusionary, hubristic belief of measuring wealth in funny money. Legacy of Pax Americana, home of the funny money braves, land of the ever levitating DJIA, Jerry Lewis index.

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:48 | 2513985 phungus_mungus
phungus_mungus's picture

$70 trillion?

You're assuming the implosion will somehow leave the derivatives market untouched?

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 10:26 | 2514054 tarsubil
tarsubil's picture

I'm optimistic.

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:05 | 2513886 Troll Magnet
Troll Magnet's picture

no, but we may have to deport mr. antonio banderas.

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:09 | 2513894 maxmad
maxmad's picture

Gee I knew they would fade this Spanish Bailout crap!  Its been a sell since it openned last night!  Sooo predictable!  We will be blood red by the close!  Sell the rip!

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:25 | 2513935 smlbizman
smlbizman's picture

i think it may be time to dig up dandy don meridith for a final encore performance of ..turn out the lights....

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 10:12 | 2514285 maxmad
maxmad's picture

And there you have it!  Blood Red in the market!  Its like taking "money from the bulls!"

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:01 | 2513872 pamriallc
pamriallc's picture

We debatedd Robert Shiller on this very topic and won big.   http://pamria.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/10/A6-3-Keiretsu.pdf

That's why they call today....  "the present"  research@pamria.com

 

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:02 | 2513874 piliage
piliage's picture

I'd invest in this company, wouldn't you?

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:08 | 2513891 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

'...but we don't suck as bad as the Japanese!..'

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:40 | 2513971 jus_lite_reading
jus_lite_reading's picture

Totally sustainable levels of debt...

Hell, why not 300% debt:GDP?

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:02 | 2513875 valley chick
valley chick's picture

and what is Italy's real debt to GDP right now?

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:02 | 2513877 silver500
silver500's picture

Spain contributed 83% (by guarantee) of the money it received as a bailout in ESM.

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:03 | 2513879 phungus_mungus
phungus_mungus's picture

Yeah, I think everyone is just now figuring that out...

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:06 | 2513888 krispkritter
krispkritter's picture

Funny how that works. Circular 'financing'...

"Like water circling a toilet bowl, these are the Days of Our (Spanish) Lives..."

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:05 | 2513883 HoofHearted
HoofHearted's picture

No canceling of the Vuelta is necessary...it just means that you'll have to pay 100 euros per day to be in Spain, anywhere in Spain, from 18 August to 9 September. It's simply an admission fee...and Spain needs the cash.

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:05 | 2513884 AmCockerSpaniel
AmCockerSpaniel's picture

If Greece does not postpone it's election till July they will miss an opportunity to get more money out of Germany.

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:09 | 2513893 Josh Randall
Josh Randall's picture

Japan's GDP to Debt Ratio has some competition I see - GO SPAIN, GO!

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:13 | 2513901 aleph0
aleph0's picture

 

 

OECD demands Mandatory Private Pensions in Germany

.. and continues : "Germans should work longer"
 

http://www.welt.de/wirtschaft/article106493619/OECD-fordert-Zwang-zu-pri...

What happened to the German Socialist's State Pension system then ?

;-)

 

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:25 | 2513937 falak pema
falak pema's picture

Its fine, its just that the cumulative debt is even finer! 

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:14 | 2513902 slackrabbit
slackrabbit's picture

Check out Blanchflower on Boomberg right now -- its hilarious. He effectively says this is a 100 million dollar Put - so they buy one week till the Greek election.

Naturally if Greece then defaults.....then guess who else then spits the dummy

 

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:14 | 2513905 bbelux
bbelux's picture

Rajoy said : "Hum, This is not a Bailout, this is just a cheaper loan", Also, "This is not my fault, this is because of the socialist government, I'm fine"

 

 

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:15 | 2513908 edmondantes
edmondantes's picture

Has anyone calculated real debt ratios... debt to private sector GDP ... seems to me that it is circular to include public sector in GDP denominator because public sector does not actually generate any incremental $$ ... just takes from one part of popn to give to another or to public servants

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:17 | 2513913 VonSalza
VonSalza's picture

Dear Readers please join 2012 EU creative bookkeeping Con-test, Big prizes; Eurobonds

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:17 | 2513914 Peter Pan
Peter Pan's picture

The debt to GDP ratio of places like Spain and Greece should be added to the percentage chance of these countries paying back their debt (0%) and divided by two. This gives you a better idea of how much of the debt literally has to be paid off for starters.

In my books the whole lot of them are maniacs who are holding us as hostages in the back seat of a car driven by a maniac and navigated by a drunk.

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:19 | 2513920 Sudden Debt
Sudden Debt's picture

THAT'S A LOT OF CALAMARES!!

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:21 | 2513922 slewie the pi-rat
slewie the pi-rat's picture

good thing they don't figure it in dollars!  L0L!!!

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:53 | 2513923 falak pema
falak pema's picture

the debt to gdp ratio is perceived as being as relevant to Spain's welfare as the south sea bubble. Rafa has just won an historic seventh French Open title and Spain and Italy played a prima qualification match worthy of the preliminary fencing round into the final. So all is well in Spain, where the rain falls mainly in the plain; parched from 25+% unemployement. 

The key issue is that club med now holds the Germans by the cojones which holds the world banking system in limbo; will she or will she not go the whole hog? Frau Merkel at the cross-roads as daughter of Squid or uber-alles Bismarck. 

Awesome choice, but does she have the privilege to choose as the financial dice are so loaded in favour of global domino momentum, irrespective of NEIN or JA from her lips! 

Read my lips, read my lips...the words to seal the fate of the financial world. Delusionary Zeitgeist, as always. 

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:24 | 2513928 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

I think 200% + is a benchmark for the developed economies. No need for alarm.

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:25 | 2513934 johnnymustardseed
johnnymustardseed's picture

And in the United States it is five times that and we don't care.....

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:51 | 2513990 JustObserving
JustObserving's picture

US debt today is $15.774 trillion and US unfunded liabilities are $119.24 trillion today.  US GDP is estimated to be  $15.5 trillion though Dagong, the Chinese rating agency, claims it to be only $6 trillion.  

On a GAAP basis, US is far worse than Spain.  But then all the major rating agencies are based in the US though Fitch is French-owned. Egan-Jones who downgraded the US on April 5, 2012 was charged with making material representations by the SEC on April 24th 2012.

 

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:26 | 2513936 asteroids
asteroids's picture

Bullshit story on weekend when markets are closed. Massive overnight Sunday ramp. Sell to suckers Monday morning. Rinse, lather, repeat. Sorry folks, we've seen this over and over. We aren't buying.

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:29 | 2513941 IMA5U
IMA5U's picture

146%

 

Rajoy brown nosed Merkel and got extra credit

A++

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:37 | 2513964 YHC-FTSE
YHC-FTSE's picture

The only way Spain and the rest of the GIIPS will survive is for the entire world to go through a huge spurt in growth over the next decade and a half and their willingness to pay off the principle as soon as possible (Just as the S.Koreans did in the 90's with their IMF loan). Fat chance of that happening. (If they are hoping a war might do it, they would be very wrong, so stfu Krugmanites.)

Only three choices remain now. Defaults and disintegration of the eurozone, or the Eurobond over German objections, or x years of slow death, inflation, and decline with quarterly hand-wringing crises we've been seeing lately. Not sure which is worse, but the 3rd option probably won't last as long as Japan's. Hmmm. I think we'll see the spectre of Eurobonds coming our way again.

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 09:02 | 2514023 AnAnonymous
AnAnonymous's picture

The growth is required by more than GIIPS.

Actually, US citizens would require that in order to validate their claims of overcoming the environment.

That said, Spain and the others have the US citizen option to go through the lack of growth: shift the pain associated to it onto a third party.

US citizen style.

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 09:26 | 2514102 GeneMarchbanks
GeneMarchbanks's picture

That said, Spain and the others have the US citizen option to go through the lack of growth: shift the pain associated to it onto a third party.

US citizen style.

I had to +1 that. The name of the game.

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:39 | 2513967 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

One day the world is going to wake up and ask "What is Money?"

That is when this house of cards collapse.

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:39 | 2513970 resurger
resurger's picture

Kick it Forward >>

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:43 | 2513979 slaughterer
slaughterer's picture

S&P should downgrade Spain immediately.   This country cannot remain investment grade. 

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 09:12 | 2514055 junkyardjack
junkyardjack's picture

Needing a bailout shouldn't mean you can't be investment grade....

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:44 | 2513982 NumberNone
NumberNone's picture

All they need is another Aztec empire to plunder...problem solved.

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 09:04 | 2514035 magpie
magpie's picture

or Flemings and Dutchmen to tax and inquisitioneer.

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:49 | 2513987 LULZBank
LULZBank's picture

If we inflate the value of goods and services that constitute the GDP, that would bring down the GDP to Debt ratio ... no?

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 08:56 | 2514006 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

In 1936 Spain collapsed into civil war, as a result of the machinations of the competing wings of the Kosher Khazarian Konspiracy\aka bigbutterneggmen in London\NewYork\Hamburg\Montreal. A lot of new technology was tried out on the civilian populations of Hispania....a la Iraq and other ME locales many decades later. Guernica was the very last time that "art" was allowed to capture the acts of the deceivers in their ugly essence...after that, the tryanny of the photographic lense was imposed to mitigate against such outbursts of hyper realism.

All of the lives lost, disrupted, or ruined as a result of this successful Iberian trial balloon to WW.2.0 were a meaningless sacrifice to the altar of the moneypower. Spain bled in a giant replication of Lorca's Bodas de Sangre, performed by a people chosen to pay for the impudence of their forbearers in throwing the kabbalists out of their Sephardic Garden of GreEDen.

Radiks' interrogation by Stalins' men revealed the full extent of the plot to pit east and west against each other, with the winners being the usury-al-ist suspects....who would prove to have been in control of FDR, Churchill, Hitler, and most of the Soviet command infrastructure which Josef S, would liquidate in a vain attempt to reduce the contagion of bolshevism against his Russian Revisionist Empire.

There is indeed, nothin new under the Spanish sun, and I'll say it agin, and as many times as necessary...no matter the hundred blooms of poisoned flowers which may sprout here from the minds of the over-educated and under initiated:

the Spanish are not Greeks, and this lie about the miserable condition of Spain versus the actually destitute but media buffered and protected United States of Merika and United Satrapies of Europe will be proven as fallacious and malleable to correction by actual reality as were the previous pretensions of an imperialist France hungering for hinterlands to pillage but lacking the "bottom" with which to pull it all off.

  Now bark away ye running dogs and lackeys of the $ power!

 

 

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 10:24 | 2514345 falak pema
falak pema's picture

after that, the tyranny of the photgraphic lens... Poor Robert Capa would sigh at that phrase from his grave. He immortalised his name, lens in hand precisely to capture Spain's traumatic hyperrealism, and then died with his boots on in Indo-Nam; always his precious lens by his side.

The tyranny he portrayed was born elsewhere. The lens was only its faithful servant as iconic momento for history. Now the lens is the symbol of the ephemeral age of funny money tyranny called advertising.

Robert Capa - Wikipédia

Résultats Google Recherche d'images correspondant à http://expositions.bnf.fr/capa/images/1/002.jpg

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 13:00 | 2515226 JOYFUL
JOYFUL's picture

.... to capture Spain's traumatic hyperrealism...\

precisely the point falak...to capture and emulate the really real...the blind man's folly, and the history of the decline of the west...no tears for yur photographer,\

even the natives knew that the 'lense' stole souls... but then, I believe yu have a disdain for 'tribalism.'

 

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 09:10 | 2514053 Don Diego
Don Diego's picture

It should be more than 146.6% of GDP since the GDP is also overestimated.

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 11:37 | 2514792 Rainman
Rainman's picture

Thanks, my like thinking bro, we must be bruthas from anotha motha.

Mon, 06/11/2012 - 11:39 | 2514807 Rainman
Rainman's picture

I just knew those marble floors in the Barcelona airport were over the top....circa 2008.

Do NOT follow this link or you will be banned from the site!